Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - RE-RELEASE - David Byrne

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

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Republished, get ready for the burn, as in David Byrne, talking heads much? Maybe you've heard of it. Maybe you've heard of them. With the big boxy coat, of course, I ask him about that I drill him right between the eyes. Yeah, he's artist. I mean, he gets up there. His choreography and his movements are just as big as the songs. It's right.

He's very, very quirky, cool, laid-back guy, just like you'd expect. I have to say he's legendary. I mean, the Talking Heads is one of those bands everyone's heard of. They might have a T-shirt with the talking heads. David Burns sort of runs the show over there. He's doing a play. I mean, he's all over the place. And he's a very influential dude.

So Dane and I chatted up. I'm sure he was bored of tears with us, but who isn't? I think he was mesmerized. I don't think he blinks. He was mesmerized by us? That's a better way to put it. Yeah. But yeah, it was really fun to talk to him.

He's quite a, you know, famous persona. Enigma, yeah, in some ways. Here he is. David Byrne. When David Byrne comes on the Zoom. Dana, that's the guy. Here's this. I'm on the Zoom.

Wait a minute. I'm near-sighted. Hey, David. Oh, my God. I'm on the Zoom. How are you doing? Oh, we're doing incredible now that you're here. Nice to meet virtually.

Yes. This is, is this your first Zoom today? No, it's my second one today. Really? Good. Did you have one with Lauren Michaels earlier? You'll find David and Dana. Well, we'll try to make this interesting.

Here's my first question, David. This is just to kind of be a little pithy. Has anyone ever used your last name against you in an argument? You burned me, burn. No, I don't think so. but yeah there's been some probably plenty of articles

where they did make puns you make puns like that you know burning down the house but like with my name oh right things like that yeah yeah I was called Dana Car Keys in grade school and it drove me nuts why car keys

CarV car keys it didn't even make sense but it brutalized me I'm still wounded it's basic bullying David my name is David Spade nice to meet you I, first of all, I'm a little nervous because David has such a vast career and it's almost too much.

It's almost like an intervention. It is almost too much. I got exhausted. He's doing too much. Well, or not enough, but you've done so much. It's really kind of amazing. I just, I want to ask you things you haven't been asked for, but what I observed when I was watching you in some of these videos is the way you move.

So I think of you as a dancer first and then singers. songwriter, filmmaker, and pretty much everything artistic. So was that conscious because it's kind of Polynesian to me? It's sort of slow, but it's very graceful. Interesting. And it's graceful and it's inside the loop. You never are frenetic. It's very interesting to watch. Anyway, am I the first person to ask you that, maybe the 20th? I have been asked you're like, where does your dancing come from? I made a conscious. It looks like you're falling. Uh-huh. I may, I may- You're constantly tripping. That's the thing. There it is.

Yeah. I, uh, pretty on, early on, I, I, I,

I don't want to dance, like, move like other kind of rock roll. Mick Jagger or James Brown. Yeah. So I thought, oh yeah. I mean,

that's where, that's where the bar was set, kind of. Yeah. Those people and, and many others. And I just thought, well,

there's no way I'm going to do that. Uh, and besides, they've kind of cornered that. But they do that, yeah, and they do it really well. So I have to find,

something that works for me. So I, for a long time, I didn't do anything. And then gradually, little by little, I started kind of figuring out moves and things that kind of felt like they were coming from me and that they emerged from the music. And they didn't feel like they seemed like anything else that I'd seen out there. They seemed a little bit odd sometimes. Well, they were, it's charismatic because there's no overt effort. And it just seems to work. I was watching the Jimmy Fallon thing from your show. That's what humans do.

And you're a little choreography with everyone and how you'd go up and do the chorus and you come back and you're barefoot. I don't know. It's just, it's very charismatic because it's ultimately asking us to go at you. You're not coming at us with a lot of energy. It's all just so relaxed. And you could do it until you're 90. all right, pretty much. I'm hoping. And that, yeah, I tend to go for things that don't look like I've had a lot of dance training, which I haven't had. So they're the kind of thing that I'm, I hope that other people see it and go, oh, I could do that. I could be a dancer. If this guy can do it, I can do it. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to write that down. No, moving to the music. It's very charismatic. So anyway, David, do you have a question? Not you, David Byrne, but you, I'm.

You can ask us questions, though, of course. Yes, I was a little nervous because he is, he's very smart and I'm very smart. And Dana might feel weird on this podcast. I feel like a third wheel. I've got two giant brains in front of me. But I've seen interviews with you, and you seem like very light on your feet. And that was my first kind of thing because I grew up, my brother is smarter than me. And he's very artistic.

He eventually got into design. He started that. Kate Spade handbag company with his wife. And he was so, you were his favorite band. And so I'd hear it. And I didn't quite grasp the coolness of it. I just always thought it was kind of surfacy, very, I like the songs.

And then the older you get and you start to get in the words and what you're doing, there's so much going on there that it's, it makes it even more layers and layers and layers. And so that was fun. And then when I saw that you were kind of fun and lighting your feet, that was nice to see because sometimes you don't know. what personalities behind all that when you're so smart like that. And it's great that it made it less nervous to talk to you.

Oh, good. Yeah. I'm glad it comes across that way. Yeah, I wouldn't want it to be like, oh, he thinks he's so smart and all that kind of thing. Yeah, because I'm really smart and I'm a little prickly to deal with. You're incredibly surprised. But anyway. Oh, okay.

I keep throwing that in there, but no one even agrees. I think you come off anti-pretense. There's no sense of like, look what I'm doing. you know, or at all. It just feels, and I think for an artist, first time I'm going to use the word, playful, you know, and childlike in some ways and loose. So I don't know. It's very interesting to watch.

Thank you. Yeah, yeah. I really enjoy it. And I hope the audience can sense that I'm enjoying myself and having fun and sometimes having a laugh with it. Well, you know, Dana, you know that he's got an Academy Award, a Grammy, a Tony, and a Golden Globe. So he's got an e-gog. But a lot of people are going for the e-got. No.

He's going. Wait. No, no. So, yeah. Go on. Oh, yeah, there's no E. Yeah, there's no E. So not quite.

You've got a Gog-got. No, you don't have the E. You really need a vowel. You need something to keep this going. But Golden Globe is good. So what, Emmy, is Emmy on the future? Is this burning, is this killing you that you're not, you don't have an Emmy? It's killing me that I don't have one.

That's all I think about now. I'm in TV and I don't have one and you might graze by it and win one and I'm over here struggling every day in the salt mines. Well, no, I honestly, no, I don't think about it. I don't think about it. But yeah, yeah, I don't.

You got enough stuff. I have a starting live question because this is sort of the idea how we tricked you into this, but we don't have to talk about only starting it live. When you go on, I always wonder with the music guests and I never asked when I was there, do they tell you what songs to pick

or do you say I want to do these and what order? Because you get two songs. I remember early on, early on, I seem to recall being very pushy about it and saying, yeah. Oh, they were. I was very pushy. I remember myself being very pushy and going,

I want to do this, I want to do this. And I think at one point, I don't know if it was on Saturday Night Live or Letterman or some show where I said, I want you to shoot it in black and white. Oh. Bold. Yeah, it was really, I was really pushy, you know,

and say, you know, I want something that looks a little bit different, etc, etc. And it, they, yeah. So it was a, but I, you know, back and forth, the record company where they say we'd like this one sort of out there to help this album or whatever back then. Yeah, I kind of learned, you know, you learn after a while ago, you got to give them the single or the song that's,

being promoted. And then for the second one, you can put in, you know, you can be a little more artistic and show them kind of the breadth of kind of the range of what you're doing. Yeah, of course. That's what I kind of remember is that the first one I usually knew. I remember when Pearl Jam was on and I, that was sort of my era when I was there. But I was never one to get music right away, like I told you with my brother. So I liked Pearl Jam by the time they came back. And I liked Nirvana by the time they came back. And so I go, are you going to do a, alive and they go, we did it last time. I go, you did?

So by that time, I had loved it. So then I started to pay attention, but I'm always about a year back like Europe. Well, I was introduced by Lorne Michaels because I was staying at his house in 1986 before I was on SNL, but I was cast on SNL. And I stayed for a month. And the Talking Heads played, I don't want to exaggerate. I'd say 12 hours a day throughout the house. Wow.

You may find yourself. you may find yourself and I fell in love with it. I was aware of you guys and I knew that it was new. You know, it was a new, like your singing phrasing was like popped out to me, like Sinatra or something. Yeah. You know, when did you first get that? Was that always there when you started your first band that, you don't, I don't know how

you describe your vocalization, but it's very you. There's no one else does it quite like that. It was a little more Yelpy at first. Oh, I didn't want to say that. Yeah, it was a little more Yelpy at first, and then gradually, I kind of listening to other singers on records and things, I thought, oh, you know, I can actually sing a melody if I have to, and I can do this, and that might be a way to get some things over.

I thought the same thing, but it didn't work out. I might be able to do that. I remember last time we were on Saturday Night Live, which is probably what, 2020 with John Mullaney, right? Yeah, wow. Just before the pandemic, like, weeks before. After we did the rehearsal, I got invited, or should I say, called into the meeting with

Lauren that the entire cast goes into. And I thought, oh, this didn't happen before. What's going to happen? And he gave me some notes, you know, single notes. Singly out and gave me some notes. Do you remember them? Wow. I think he thought, probably a camera moves.

Yeah. It was not about the moves. It was something about my vocal delivery. He felt it was a little too aggressive or something or rather. There was some comment about adjusting my vocal delivery. Okay. And I wasn't sure exactly what he meant, but I thought, okay, okay, I'll just keep that in mind. Whatever he means, I'll keep it in mind.

Yeah. God, I can safely say, I've never heard of that. I've never heard of Lorne giving notes of music, except, you know, Shnade O'Connor telling her not to rip up the picture of the Pope, but it was a little late. Yeah. He goes, you know, that's the stuff for rehearsal.

And then he handed her some scotch tape and said, it goes back together just as easily it was ripped. Maybe no one will notice. But probably, a lot of people notice. A lot of people notice. And, you know, one word, you know, basically. Like we're about to start a sketch and you would just say,

it has to breathe, just like that. You know, probably with you would be like, if you could bring it down a notch and let it come to you or something like that, usually there's some wisdom in it, but I, you know, I wouldn't give you notes. I wouldn't have the guts to say, David, you know, when it comes to singing, I, but Lauren. I like that you say black and white,

because you're like sort of pre-conier where you're, you know, these artistic minds come on there. and it feels like it's a certain stamp. I know the look of where the music is. I know the coloring of the lighting every week. I know what it's going to look like. And it does take someone to walk in and say, what if we shoot it a little differently?

Or what if we shot it over there? Or what if we shot it outside? Or what if we made it black and white? I like that because no one does that. They just come in, they do it and leave like you're supposed to. And I love that you're throwing things out, though. It was, I didn't want it to have like the standard rock and roll lighting. with the colored lights flashing and all that kind of stuff.

I thought, how can I easily avoid that? And so that was probably the idea there. But by the time we went in in like 2020 or whenever, there was much more, there was much more kind of a collaboration with the director and the lighting people and all. Everybody was super accommodating.

Like, okay, we've seen what you're doing. So we'll try and do that. Right. When I was there, it was only, Dana, do you agree? It was only for blocking. Like they would come in on probably Thursday before we would rehearse. We didn't even get to rehearse until Thursday night, the sketches. That's how late in the game, if people don't know that.

So music comes in and they get like an hour or two. But they do their songs. It's really a camera's going to get here. They just want to see the song just for cameras, but it was always the same lighting pretty much. I think later in the years, they started to play with a little bit. But I don't think there was a lot of thought. I do like when they play with it.

And guys like you are great because, you know, that's what you want. You want different. you want a memorable. Is it kind of interesting you, David, like David Byrne? Just I never think you're talking to me. Just that when you have a long career and then it becomes long and then you come back and you look great. You're at the top of your game. And do people like in my little teeny world, I'll go a little comedy club and I feel like I'm a museum piece.

Like he's still here. I still recognize him and he's doing the church lady. So there is this people must respond to you in a different way. way or just in a warm way or there's something and it's like lorma there's something that's about seeing you again and you and you look great you move great the songs are great your voice is still there perfect so voice is strong you can comment on that or not i'm talking too much go ahead uh yeah there's always there's always a portion of the audience they're kind of the uh kind of the kind of the original fans that are kind of my age or just a little bit younger maybe

who have a kind of legacy sense of all that. Their journey. Yeah, yeah, that's part of their journey too. And that's kind of nice. They, I think they expect to see something different from me, which is a nice kind of opportunity for me. And of course, the younger audience that comes often has no idea what to expect. Yeah.

I think they expect that they just picture one of their songs and they're going to do it exactly. That's the way I picture concerts. And when you come out, at least you come with that baggage of, which is baggage sounds negative, but they know that you are out of the box. And so anything's really possible when you're out there. So not to expect really anything. Yeah, yeah. As long as you don't

you don't antagonize them or give them things, do things that are just like, oh, I'm going to piss off the audience by indulging myself in, you know, a half hour of just talking to you or...

Drum solo. Yeah, the drum solo, whatever, yeah. I have a question about, oh, go ahead, Dana. Oh, I would just, you've managed to just always surprise. And so, you know, I just want to,

one lane of show business, is money and how to do that. And you keep reinventing yourself all around a certain general theme, but it is always new. And so how did you, did you ever get an offer to sell out? Yeah. Like in the 80s, a commercial and just for millions of dollars or something like that. Or how have you managed to stay an artist again, all the way through, stay totally cool, and manage the business side of it all?

Sell out, you mean like do? A lemonade commercial or... Oh yeah, lemonade commercials and things like... Yeah, there have been a few offers for... I've done commercials, I'll be honest. And I'm of a generation where you kind of... Musicians kind of avoided that if they could. Yes.

And I realize that now it's actually encouraged. It's like if that's what you do to get your music to a larger audience, then you should do it. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's like, first of all, just in full disclosure, I've never said no to anything. Now, also, a lot of these musicians, it used to be, but Eddie Vedder, you know, you remember that, you know, I won't even do Ticketmaster, I won't do this, all these things that made sense at the time, which was actually hard to run a concert, I'm sure back then when you're saying I can't sell out if I do this corporate, this corporate, but corporations own the arena. It's just hard to avoid, I'm sure. So, and you can comment on that if you want, but it is.

Yeah, I'm, wow. I was really impressed at Eddie Vedder and that they kind of decided we want to do this tour without Ticketmaster and whatever because our fans are tired of paying all these extra costs that get added on and all the scalping stuff that goes on with the, these ticket sales things are complicit with the scalpers. You know, they were trying, they were trying to kind of do the right thing. But it is, yeah, it's a. really hard thing for them to do. And I admired them for giving it a try. Yes, I did too. I thought, wow, and then you look and you go, oh, Ticketmaster is kind of racking everyone. You know, if you get, break it down. And then when you hear they're sort of in bed with the scalpers and stuff of or whatever, I don't know for sure. But you know how it is. And you go, so they buy some, they sell them right

back and they give them the first third of the ticket. It's just so weird because you go, yeah, every time I turn around one minute later, they're marked up to $800. You go, normal fans don't have a chance. And the artist wants the normal fans to be able to pay the real ticket price. That's bad enough, really. And then just get in there and have a good time. And they feel like they're part of it being the bad guy when they're not. But that's what it looks like.

Yeah. And now there's the whole thing of, I guess, what they call dynamic pricing where. That doesn't sound good. I know. No, yeah, yeah. It's, they've done it on Broadway for a long time, but now they're kind of moving it into concerts where, you know, with a big artist, like there was a big brouhaha about Bruce Springsteen tickets.

Because if there's a high demand for kind of the prime seats for a show like that, they'll jack the prices up for those. Now, they might still keep some cheap seats in the back. But the ones up front will just go, they'll kind of trying to beat the scalpers in a way. But that means that... 1,200.

Yeah, the prices start going up into the scalper range where it's over $1,000. Wow. And, yeah, the fans are just going, that's not what was originally listed. I know, that's not really the plan. Like, I don't really get that

because they're going to make the scalper money up front instead of the scalper's making? They're saying that, yes, at least if we do that, the money goes to the artist. But it's still pretty tough. It's still pretty tough on the

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Do you both go into clubs, like you said, go into comedy clubs in different places and try out new material that way and kind of make a surprise appearance somewhere and go, okay, I got to try some stuff out. And the only way I know what works is to do it live. David does it a lot. Yeah. 100%. Yeah, I have to.

I have to because I'm, I'm, I'm kind of on a tool right now. And when people are paying and it's a bigger theater, you have to try. But I've always done that because it's always the only way to even keep going. So luckily in L.A. there's the improv and the comedy store and the laugh factory. So you can go in. You can go in anytime. I mean, they're nice enough to say, just come in whenever you drive by.

You can go up and do whatever you want. And so you try it. And there's a lot of great comedians there. The only thing these days is some comics are having them put the, phones in those zip bags because you can't work on a new special if people are leaking it on YouTube the next morning or put it on their TikTok or whatever and then all your jokes are out there so it's not like building up for a special someone like Eddie Murphy I would see having a real problem coming back to stand up because where do you practice where people aren't going to

film you and leak everything and if it's not that funny because you're really working it they're going to see that and say oh he's not that good anymore and you're like well this is how I used to do it in little clubs and then the world sees it. But like a band, I don't know. I don't know. That's the only way to do it. Well, for me, I want to ask you a question, music, David.

I started in small clubs, and I didn't know I wasn't really a stand-up. I was a sketch player. So the small clubs allowed me to go, I'm going to be a character for two minutes. And then as I got on TV and stuff, I played bigger rooms. And I found it much more of a heavy lifting for me,

unless there were screens. So I love the small clubs. And with comedy, it's always a surprise. So ideally, you've edited it in a small room. So when you go to the big room, you don't go, and it didn't get a laugh. But did you, when you're in the 70s in those low ceiling clubs and your first band was just kicking in,

there's a certain, some energy to that. But you've played all kinds. You have a show that you do occasionally. Only 16 audience members can come in at a time. We'll get to that in a second. You're a fascination with the brain and neuroplastics. And all that. But in terms of rooms, what's your favorite size room or it's the room you're in, I guess? Broadway is pretty intimate in its own way. Broadway is pretty, you know, fairly intimate. I like that size room. You can still, it's big, but you can still get a sense of all the people. I still feel like, as you probably do, you're, I still feel like I'm speaking right to them and they're listening to me. And if there's a reaction,

I can respond to their reaction. And sometimes I can, you know, as you might do, if you get a laugh, you're trying to say something else that's going to put a laugh on top of the laugh. And yeah, yeah, that kind of thing. But you can't, you can't like make that up at home. You can't like write that. You have to see how the audience reacts. That's the best place to be is in the moment, kind of like with us right now. And life is really about that listening and being in the moment, certainly performing, never trying to force it.

Don't anticipate it. All I think before I go out on stage, the last word I say to myself is have fun. Because if I forget to have fun, it can unravel pretty quickly. If people are drunk or it's a shitty audience or I blew a joke, but always have fun. That helps me a lot. What do you say right before your show, David? David Byrd. What do I say?

Ladies and gentlemen, American Utopia, David Byrne. Do you have any ritual or prayer or just like take a deep breath or you just walk out? Usually the band and I are kind of backstage and we're all on like our mics and everything like that. So we can all talk to one another. But nobody else can hear us. And so there's a lot of joking around like, okay, who's out there tonight? Right. People take a peek and go, oh, there's, yeah, there's a really strange looking person in the front.

row or there's a kid, there's a kid in the front row who's sleeping. Yeah, to lighten it up. Yeah. Yeah, that's, you know, I do the same thing. I peek out in the front and try to go, is there anyone I want to mention or say anything? Because when you're live, you can sort of, I do one crowdwork. I go out of the audience and I go, I go, what are you guys having? Nachos?

And they go, yep. And I go, oh, is it an anniversary or something? And then I just, I go, that's my crowdwork, folks. I get one laugh. The worst crowd work ever. Yeah, because I go, I did. It looks like they really like it in stand-up and probably in music. When you're doing something that they think is not the hand-stamp show.

So if you're in a crowd, you even, obviously in music, you just mentioned the city. They get excited. You know what I mean? Even though you're reading it off the back of a mic stand. But if you just say, you know, I saw the Eagles and they were. like on a dark Arizona highway and everyone goes whoa anything that's where we live anything local cool cool Scottsdale wind in my hair and everyone's like my friend lives in Scottsdale they go warm smell of ASU stadium and everyone's like all right just sing the fucking

song dude why I always tell him what what's the rival the rival town so if you're playing Fresno and I go oh yeah that's a good one they go we hate Modesto then I go out and I just say modesto sucks and I've got them yeah it's easy to stick in the the world. Or you go, that joke is funny. This guy from Modesto doesn't get it. And then it's a running, running gag. David, you can use any of these, any of them. Okay, okay. Just take them with you. It's so funny. Oh, I have a question about your, one of my favorite songs, Wildlife. The video, isn't the video, does it have a ton of cameos in it? Yeah, it's people, it's meant to be like a karaoke night or something like that where people are jumping up and singing a line.

It's kind of taken off on that. And people, the audience members are kind of dressing up like their favorite singers or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great one. And that one, was Bishemi in it or am I crazy? No, it was not Bishemi. It was a local guy in Dallas that looked like Bishemi.

Oh, for real? Yeah. Oh, my God. I was about to say, who is in that thing? because that was such a fun video and such a great song. I still crank it on my iPod. Is iPod? I guess what I have my phone.

Yeah. It's on my phone, but whatever. Believe me. And I'm one of these guys that I get those Apple songs and they're 99 cents or whatever. And so instead of joining something, I just go, well, I already have this. I don't want to learn anything new. And I realize I have 20,000 songs, so I've spent 20,000. It's the dumbest thing I could ever do,

but I just keep doing it one by one, and they're just adding up. I'm like, I think this isn't smart. But love that. Take Me to the River has a great beginning. I'm going through your songs now, which is, I know you get bored by that, but it's great because I'm asking,

so it's something different. Take me to the river, Dana. You know, that one is such a killer beginning. Brilliant. And the only thing you need in the middle when you go drop me in the water, you could have me up there and I'll go, oh, that's his best sound effects.

So if I'm ever there, I'll jump up. You could have added that. Everyone can't do it. And the, as we've said before, the MTV generation growing up with me, the V was for the videos and it was for the music. And it wasn't 24 hours of ridiculousness, which is a show, which is actually really good.

But they used to have more than one show on their end music videos. No one believes me. but that was a really fun time when you probably got a new song it's probably kind of fun where they go, the next step literally is what's your video?

Is that kind of how it was? Yeah. I really enjoyed making videos back then. You could, you had a song, you thought, okay, this might be the single and you could go out and do a video kind of cheaper, cheaply,

kind of more cheaply than you can do today, actually. And you know, they'd run it. They were desperate for material. And then you were getting all their material for free from the record company. So if you could give them a video, they'd start running it within a week, which is just kind of amazing for us. It's great. Well, yeah, you have a blank slate and you're kind of an artist.

You are an artist. So that must be fun. You've got a song which already wrote. You made that. That was one breakthrough. And now a song is working. And then you go, oh, now I get one more crack at it. What is, the scary thing is, what's everyone going to remember forever?

Because you sort of, at my age, I would just picture the video when I hear the song. Exactly. So you had to be a little bit careful because you know that's what's going to be burned into people's minds. Yes, for sure. Yeah, we discovered that there were songs that, in those days, songs that broke because of the video. Oh, yeah, they make it better. Yeah, the radio maybe wasn't really playing it that much. and the video would, people would just, they'd play it over and over again.

And then the radio would kind of be forced to play it. Yeah, for sure. It took on a new life. And it did seem obviously going back a little bit, your art school roots, like John Lennon, seemed like it was a natural fit for you. Everything had an artistic bet. And for a second, just American Utopia, the album in the show, it would appear to me that would be as satisfying as anything you've done.

this recent Broadway run because the way you reinvented Broadway I mean you can speak to that I mean you reinvented it with that stage show by everyone being mobile that's that's pretty brilliant I mean go out to talk to that

to me that yeah starting way back with music videos but being able to kind of do a stage show like that it was kind of bringing together everything that got me excited whether it was you know the staging or the choreography or the lighting and all those things

I could kind of bring it all together in one package and the trick with Broadway, I think, was getting the sound to be like not Broadway sound. The sound mix on Broadway musicals tends to be of a certain type. We thought, no, we want this to sound like a real concert. We need people to understand the words and all that, which is you can't always do at a music concert. But we need to do that. But yeah, that was a little bit of an uphill battle, but it worked.

Really inspiring for the percussion section. So you knew you wanted the drummers to move. So you needed rather than the drummer behind the kit. So you had multiple drummers, almost like a marching band, moving about choreography. It's just how were you, did you do every show, David? Were you starring in every show? I had to. I'd assume that who could suffer.

substitute for you. But how did you paste yourself with that? I mean, is that a beating? I mean, I do 60 minutes of stand up and I lay down in a hammock afterwards and people fan me. I was packed in ice earlier today. I was packed in. I get packed in on my tub at the holiday. On a regular basis.

But obviously you were having so much fun. That keeps fatigue at Bay. Are you enjoying it? Yeah, I was enjoying it. I paced myself, yes. I ran into Hugh Jackman at a dinner once. So before I did the show on Broadway, I reached out to him and said,

I'm not used to doing shows whatever six or seven days a week or whatever it might be. Do you think I can do this? Do you have any advice for me? Because he's the only person I could think of who had done like a one-man show singing the whole show on Broadway. He's an athlete.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I asked him, do you think I can do this? And he said, yeah, you can do, you know, how's your voice? Yeah, voice is fine. They said, you know, he said, don't go to parties after. Don't go, don't visit your, don't hang out with your friends in a bar after because you will end up talking louder in a bar that you are singing on stage. and that's like doing a whole other show.

Smart. So he said, don't do that. Meet him for lunch the next day. Then he said, if you got two shows, don't take an app in between the two shows because your first inclination is, phew, got through that. Now I need to rest up for the next one.

He said, no, no, no, no. Because then your, whatever, your energy and stuff will just drop down to zero. And you've got to build it all back up again for the next show. He said, you just got to, you know, push through it and then you'll be ready for the next one. Could I possibly after this get the Hugh Jackman's information?

Yeah, I need his number two. Because he seems to really be good about advising. I want my life coach. Just whatever, Hugh Jackman.com. He also sounds boring. After the show, lay down in a hyperbolic chamber until the next show. I'm like, well, how can I go out and get my kudos? I need some high fives.

I would have told you, pack yourself in ice, before the first. show, get repacked in between shows and pack. So how did you, how did you come down then to go to sleep? Do you have a scotch on the rocks? Do you meditate? Yeah, yeah. I'd have a couple of glasses. I'd go home, have a couple of glasses of wine and watch like some TV show.

I call it brain candy, right? Just something. Yeah, brain candy. Nothing too heavy. Yeah. Nothing too emotional that would kind of make, make me dream. weird dreams, stuff like that. Just the saw movie franchise.

I usually watch that. The doze off. If you want to put on movies called Clean Slade or Opportunity Nossus, I guarantee you, David, you are out within five minutes. You're like, what the fuck? Give me a little sharder.

That may, you may want to have a third glass of wine. Be careful about that. When you see an abomination, you know, it starts to tip. There's two things I'm really interested. One is your fascinates with the brain. And I was curious what your thoughts are with the studies about psilocybin or ketamine in terms of helping with addiction and helping the brain. Because you've done a lot of stuff around the brain. You have that show where you come out with the brain.

You talk about the brain. Oh, yeah. And so where are you at with that now? What's your thoughts? What are you doing with the brain? I haven't tried any of those therapies. I watched the Michael Pollan show about mushrooms and stuff like that.

Oh, you haven't done them? I haven't done them, but I kind of watched the show. It was all about that. Yeah, treating those things as therapy and all that stuff, LSD and everything, were used pretty successfully, it seems, for therapy until it was made illegal.

Yeah. And then it was just like silence. No more research. You couldn't touch it. Yeah. everything, any kind of beneficial stuff that it did was all denied and shoved aside. It was all this government propaganda about how you would have babies that would look like fish or whatever. Yeah.

And now that's kind of people are kind of getting back into it and kind of treating it seriously as a therapeutic thing. And it's, I've sort of thought, okay, probably have to monitor it really carefully, see how people respond. but for some things, yeah, like post-traumatic stress, things like that, it seems like it does help people. I was told this, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I want to hear your response to this, is just that non-psychoactive psilocybin drops over time daily create bigger neural pathways. And the metaphor was told to me is that if you're stuck on a cycle of thinking that's negative or whatever, It's like a little river going down, or a little stream going down a giant canyon. When you do these psilocybin drops or a period of time, your thoughts start to emancipate

and you're seeing a gush of water, a big giant wush of water going down. And it frees open that negative pattern. So anyway, thoughts either of you guys. I could definitely see that that could be the case. We do get stuck in our ways of thinking. If somebody's had a traumatic experience, they just kind of play that movie over and over again and they need to kind of find a way out of it. And people are non-trusting the pharmaceutical companies more and more. So they're trying, you know, Eastern medicine. There's

different things that everyone wants to try just to say, what if there's something from the earth, what if there's something that I just haven't tried, that they don't seem to want me to try, but it might be great for me. And I know a lot of people doing special K-N-O and microdosing. and I really didn't know it was for real treatment other than just recreational, but they are saying... Special K is ketamine, right? Khamine, yeah. Special K. But you hear it's a horse tranquilizer, so you go, well, I mean, I can't even do Z-Quil.

I can't even do a full teaspoon. So I go, I don't think I need that because I, a horse is bigger than me, the last horse I saw. Ketamine is supposed to like, you go on a pretty heavy trip, and I guess if it works for your brain, what I'm told is that you're able to get outside yourself and you're able to laugh at yourself and you have these revelations that last, even though you have a bit of nausea for a couple days. And for three months,

you're just freed from that locked negative thinking. So what do you, David, David, if you have the blues, you're feeling kind of down, do you go on a bike ride because you're a big bike guy? You're always on your life. Yeah, I'll do that. Yeah. I'll do that.

You know, I don't get the blues. I don't get depressed that off. We all do sometimes. But in general, I'm pretty upbeat. And if I'm going through a difficult period, I'll just kind of go, okay, just keep going. Self-talk. Yeah.

Yeah, that thing you did is look, yeah, that thing you did failed or it looks like it's not going to happen or, yeah. Could you possibly work that into a song like, I don't ever get the blues. You know, it's a blues song about a guy. I don't ever get the blues. You might find yourself, not getting the blues.

You might find yourself. Sorry, I had to do that. Same as it ever was. No, I don't think nobody, I don't think people want to hear that. They don't want to hear like, oh, yeah, I'm a super happy guy. Yeah. You know. Blues does better.

My life is great. And it's kind of like, well, fuck you. My latest self-talk, David, both Davids, is, I just say big life, big life. Big life if you try a career, if you have children. And if you have marriages, if you travel, if you buy things, if you make money, you can lose money. So big life up and down. So you just accept it when problems come. This is big life, big problems. And that's your own self-talk, right? To yourself. And that helps. Could I, I'm interested in this because you seem so future all the time.

Ask about that art stuff. Well, the robots have arrived. They're here. They're studying us. They're manipulating us. They're making everybody angry. And they're doing all kinds of things. And now they're in art. They're writing the hook. They're all over music.

You don't have to write the music. You don't have to sing the music. You point to guys with AIs on computers. And then they put it together in her lab. And now in art and visual art, recently in AI, drew a painting. They put in all this information. And at one first prize at this art show. And the real artists were really angry.

So it just seems to me the sensual. the sense you're always future, future, are you going to incorporate with AI or what are your thoughts about that integrating with art? Sorry. Sorry, it's his favorite things meeting together. Okay. No, to be honest, no, I haven't thought about doing that.

And I remember reading about that, seeing the picture and thought, ah, picture's kind of nice, picture's kind of nice. I saw it. Yeah. It's not exactly what I would do, you know, but okay, that's,

Nothing wrong with that. I blame the guy buying it. Because I blame the person would buy that art or pay a lot of money for it because you don't want to make a market for that. There is something about what art is about coming from someone. Is that the picture, Dana? Well, just one I did recently. Could a robot make that? No, that's good.

Yes. I sort of doubt it. Yeah, but a four-year-old could. Someone was really bugging me. That's the person on top in the bubble and I was on the bottom. I love it. Dana's got good art. That's real. I like it.

It's a cliche. I'm not the artist, but I do do it for my own processing of thoughts. But I doubt that a machine would do that. That's the greatest thing anyone's ever said. David Burns said a machine could not do my. No, I understand what you're saying. And I agree with you. I don't like it.

I still think the human soul or the human brain can create stuff. And I think, well, I was reading your exit essay after American Utopia and about you find out later, and it doesn't sound pretentious, but you find out later kind of what you were writing about commonly in your writing and in your art, that you're kind of doing it spontaneously from some place. And it may be not literal. And then a year later or whatever, you kind of figure out what it was. and I was interested in the very end, you said, American utopia.

It's not ironic. Yes. Which is kind of a surprise coming from me because some of my material is ironic. Yes. But in this case, I thought, no, no, no, no. I want to really hold out some kind of either visually or in the songs and in the way we present it, the whole attitude and what I say. I want to hold out some kind of hope that all the things that we wish we could be and what we could be as a country and all that, that they're not all entirely out of reach.

We do have possibilities. Well, for me, I just read history and then I feel better. You know, right when the pandemic hit, you know, I read a book, The Splendid in the Vile. It was a brilliant book, but it was a new one about. Churchill and the Blitz in London. And, you know, it just helped calm me down or read about the plague or the middle ages. And it gives you a perspective. I've seen people on an iPhone with a latte going, is this a worst time to be alive, you know?

And there was no medicine until like maybe 50 years ago. You have a heart attack. They'd shake your hand and give you a baby aspirin. See you later. Now they can put all this stuff in you. So you're kind of on this wavelength because you have this reason to be cheerful. online thing? You're on this sort of happy, cheerful

you know, if American Utopia means it's possible, that's very up message. Yes, yes. What are the reasons to be cheerful, David Byrne? Well, wow. We report on a lot of stuff. I haven't done a lot of writing for them recently,

but we have a group of writers. They look for places around the world where people have found solutions to like if some places, in Italy where the sea was getting overfished and they kind of, the fisher, fish communities, the fishermen communities, they get together and then go, okay, we're going to manage this because we know if we overfish this, we're all screwed. We don't, that's our livelihood. So we have to kind of manage it. And they kind of figure out a way to do that, a way to kind of look out for

people who were kind of breaking the rules or whatever. And sure enough, the fish come back and their catch increases. And so they end up making more money than they did before. You know, happy ending. Good news is not reported. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, it's nice to hear that stuff. Yeah, we're biased towards bad news. We like to hear bad news and scary stuff. It feeds part of our brain, right? Somehow. Yeah, it's part of our brain. We'd like to be aware of what kind of lions and tigers are looming around the corner as opposed to the nice stuff. So it's a little bit of an uphill battle, but, you know, this stuff is happening. I'm surprised at how much of it the writers are finding. You're right. I mean, it's probably an old stand-up bit, but there's never a news flash.

Breaking news, 200 million people are relatively happy in North America. It's always going to be death and pain. And I get it on, I'll go down the rabbit hole a little bit in the morning. And I go to myself, I said, I'm being hypnotized into darkness. Because whatever is bad, With a robot stirring it is going to be presented 10 times as bad. And it is, it's a trap to be unhappy your whole life. Because I know tribal people, we don't really talk politics here, but they're in both camps. And they're both just so angry. And I'm like, what good is this doing right now?

All this fury. But you're right. What part of the brain is that feeding? Is some primal part of our hypothalamus? It seems like it is. it's some sort of primal part that obviously evolved for for something really useful to us. War. To, yeah, to be aware that what's that, what's that moving in the jungle?

What's that moving on Savannah? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'd rather, if I run away, it might not be anything, but if I run away, I'm going to be all right. But if I stay and wait to find out, I might be dead. So better to run away. Better to be fearful and suspicious than to just kind of sit it out and go, well, let's wait and see what it is.

And it's a bio-evolutionary, it's a Darwinian proposition because the people didn't run away, didn't live long enough to have kids. So we're predisposed all of us to be a little kind of jumpy because the ones who weren't are dead. Exactly. Yeah. And the algorithms on all the stuff kind of feed on that, can feed on our propensity. Yeah, COVID was a real boon for them because it was like the first case.

got to America and they're like projecting 10 million dead. I go, well, someone just sneezed, that's it. One guy tested positive. We don't even know what's going on. They're like, no, no, right now you better, you know, make funeral arrangements. I'm like, so it's like a half truth or there's a piece of a truth where they can run with it and they run hard with it and they don't run the other way. It's always could be worse, might get worse, probably worse.

Instead of like, hey, we might pull out of this. And that's a tough one to live with every day. And that was hard, especially during COVID because nothing else is really happening in your life except bad news on the TV 24th. It's tough. Yeah, you could just dig really deep into that. Yeah. Not much else to do. The 2006 Chevrolet Equinox awarded the most dependable compact SUV in the U.S. by J.D. Power is designed for your everyday.

And with available all-wheel drive, you can handle your to-do list with total confidence. Start your build at Chevrolet.ca.com. When you're out, you're on tour. Yes, David. Are the audiences back? You know, they are. And they're excited. And it seems like they want to laugh.

And they don't really want it super PC. They seem to appreciate that if you're a comedian, the ones that come out to the clubs that aren't on Twitter 24 a day complaining about it. There are some people that just say, just go do it. We'll decide if we like it or not, but give it to us. And if we don't like it, we'll boo. And that's part of the fun or we'll not laugh. But as a comedian is sort of an art also. And you want to say whatever you want.

And that's usually how it was working for a long, long time. And then people are being scared to get canceled and they don't want to say the wrong thing. So we don't want the world to turn into the eight, everyone's telling the same eight jokes that are approved by America. You know, and that's what happens. You go, okay, I walked out and everyone was happy. And people go, it wasn't funny, but I didn't get mad, thank God. And you go, well, you got to sort of crack some eggs here.

Yeah, you got to, I don't get mad. I never try to get complaining comedians when they're not funny or they do something too far. I'm like, I would say they probably won't do that again or they might tweak it, but it's not my place to tell them to complain about it. And say, get off stage. It's stupid to me. Yeah. And I've been to shows where somebody's done some stuff where I go, oh, I think they crossed a line, just across the line right there.

But the rest of the show was really great. And I remember I've been to some shows where I had to put my phone in the bag. I have no problem with it. Do you go to comedy shows, David? Every once in a while. I love it. I love it. Oh, I want to see you.

you sitting in the back one day. That'd be awesome. I'd be nervous. I'd bring up this podcast. No, I'm there to laugh and have a good time. I think to your original idea, David Burr, was that, yes, we've run into a little roadblock now with Ukraine and the economy, but there was a period, a short period, pre post-COVID where the roaring 20s had it after the Spanish flu of the life's dance and get drunk and just because this could go away. So I think there was a gusher. of ticket sales initially to And then it went away. Well, now we're not having a roaring.

We're having all this other stuff again right now. And COVID, who knew, as Dr. Fauci would say, who knew there was so many mutations? I didn't know. I thought you'd be dancing in the street. But for me personally, being someone who does impressions as part of what I do, political comedy is the hottest oven of all of balancing, that balancing act.

because you've got, you know, it's tribal and stuff. But, you know, I try to do Biden and I do Trump, but it's a delicate dance. I'm mostly want to have my true North Star to be funny. But have you found that in any of your work now? You're doing art exhibits at the Pace Gallery, trees and things, which are awesome on gigantic walls that are beautiful. So where are you on the political spectrum? Can you, who are you voting? No, I'm trying to go there. No, but do you bring it into your, are you careful about anything when you're out there? Do you stay away from things? Wow.

When I was doing American Utopia, there was, yeah, I would do some talking stuff, sometimes about issues and things in between some of the songs. And a lot of those were kind of political, although I made a point never to endorse a politician or a particular party. I tried to keep it bipartisan and to just talk about issues. That's smart. I talk about getting people to vote. And can we talk about that?

The challenge was, can you figure out a way to talk about that and it's funny. Yeah, that's true. If it's funny, then it doesn't come off as a teacher, you know? Yeah, or condescending. Yeah. Yes. Can I get some information across, but in a way that's funny? Yeah.

And sometimes that took a little bit of trial and error. Let's see, let's see where the laughs are and how people react to that. Yeah. So you're kind of a comedian in a way when you're out there. You have a monologue section. There's room for that, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I wouldn't say I'm a comedian, but I'm learning some of the challenges that you all face. You know, people like a little levity. And when they're out having fun and they already like you, I mean, that's half the battle being comics. So they like you. They're there to see you. And in between songs, I think we asked McCartney.

Was that like a nerve, it's a nervous thing to eat. tries stuff. He goes, I'm going to say something here. And sometimes it turns into just part of the show because if something works, he locks it in, you know? Exactly. And that's great because this shows are so big. It's like hard to mess around with it. But yeah, there is a little room that must be fun. Or one night go, I'm going to say this at this part. And it's something to think about. Yeah. Or something's happened in the news and you feel like you want to acknowledge, not pretend like it didn't happen, but not. turn the whole show into being about that. Yeah.

It's a delicate dance. So what's, David, you have, I have something and we'll let him go on. I only have like 500 questions, but that's for, you know. Oh, no. Well, I just, I just researched you and you kept doing so much stuff. You can't stop. My computer goes, all right, give me a break for stuff. The dingbat drawings, the tree drawings, the stuff during the pandemic.

It's just, it goes on and on artistically. You're just, you're ping pong. in all these different areas, it seems. I'm very lucky and I'm having a good time. I'm lucky that in a way, people accept that I can try these different things. Yeah. They don't always work,

but people kind of allow me to try that stuff. Well, you look 30 years old. It means like you have drive. And if you still have drive, that's really the whole trick. You still like it. And I'm scared one day when I was, when I'm writing jokes and scribbling stuff and going,

and if it gets hard, I go, well, what if one day I don't want to do this? You know, I don't have that in me anymore. And that's what you don't want. You know, you always want to still, it's fun to still do that stuff. I just don't want that fun to go away. So I think it's nice that you still think of a germ of an idea and go, there's really no limits. It doesn't have to be this.

Yeah, because you could be out there now with just bald face talking, the talking heads review show and just playing all your hits. You could. And people would pay a lot of money for that. Of course. Right up front. Yeah. I have gotten offers for that, but at the same time, I know that you're not going to be happy. You're not going to be happy there.

It's a Faustian deal. Is that part of the equation too now? Being happy? Oh, I hope so. Yeah. No, you're right, though, but a lot of people don't think that way. They think, uh, they get scared and they move it out of fear. I get it.

I mean, of course it would make sense if you went out with that again. But there also is, you've got other things you want to do and it makes it seems more fun to do that. I think you've started. You were yourself from the beginning and you never fell into that trap. And I think it's done you well. It's probably why you look so young and fresh. And, you know, what do you get? I mean, how big a couch can you buy?

You need 20 bicycles. I mean, there's a level to money where it's we all. I love my health care and I would wish it on everyone in the world. That's my most prize possession. But I don't live in a giant place. I have one car, one wife. So. He lives in it.

I just everything you own owns you back and I just true it's true I realized yeah at some point okay I got enough bicycles yeah I don't my apartment's big enough I'm fine yeah well that makes you rich in reverse you know exactly yeah but then also gives me the opportunity to try things that might fail yes you don't have to you don't have to make 400,000 net every month I just put out a specific number in order to make ends. That's what to cover everybody. That's pretty big.

Yeah, that'd be crazy if someone had that much. No, I'm not there. No. But, you know, your expenses can creep up and then you can become a slave to them. But I do think I'm so admiring and a little bit envious that you keep reinventing yourself and you never stay stagnant. With me, a lot of the characters I did on SNL, the audience would like to see them and I push them out there to a point.

And it is a little, you know. And also in comedy, you have to feed the beast. you can't come back to the same city the next year. You have to have a new hour. But I do think your path has been really fun to watch. I've been watching you a lot the last day and a half. Yeah. In my research.

Thank you. And this guy is having fun. He can't be cooler. I know that's not your quest. It's good to be cool, though. Well, it just means you're following your true north start. I don't know if you had a lot of therapy early on. I finally got into therapy at 60, a little bit too late.

But it seems like you had a sense of yourself and a confidence early on. I tried therapy for a while when I was having some relationship marriage and stuff. But other than that, I think my therapy is, yeah. Let's roll some video from that therapy session. Going for a bicycle ride or whatever. I think we've, thank you, David, for bearing with us. I know this isn't a typical sort of interview thing, but you're a lot of fun to talk to. It's been really a pleasure, David.

Thank you. And you keep it up. If you happen to want to bring your Broadway show back, I would make my way to see it. I don't know if you're not the type to repeat, but that the reviews on that, I'll just say they were off the charts. I mean, so I don't know if you have plans to bring it back, but don't do it for me as my only message. don't mount I did this for Dana Dana

it wanted to see it it is on HBO live streaming right now right isn't it yeah right so that's available for everybody let's do housekeeping

at the very end David Byrne he's got albums out he's got art shows he's at the Pace Gallery trees and yeah Pace Gallery in New York City I'm going to be there soon

I'm going to check that out he does neuros society I can't anything you want to add No, that's good, that's good Fans can consume All right, well, good luck on your next podcast David

Thank you But this was a... I'm going to go buy some more bicycles Bye you guys Great to meet you both Be well, thank you Because he said you don't need more bicycles All right listen

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Fly in the Wall, believe it or not, is presented by Odyssey. And executive produced by Hold For It, Dana Carvey and David Spade, or David. Spade and Dana Carvey. We don't write those stuff. Heather Santoro, Greg Holtzman, and Leah Reese Dennis. The show is edited by Evan Cox with production support from Phil Sweet Tech. Talent production and booking by Sophia Lepore.