Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - RE-RELEASE - Julia Sweeney

Episode Date: April 22, 2026

Let’s revisit women on SNL, Pat, and religion with Julia Sweeney. *Note: this interview was recorded before the SAG-AFTRA strike took effect in 2023. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Download the BetmGM app today and enjoy the NHL like never before. Betmgmgm.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1866-5312,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetmGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Julia Sweeney, who I was shared several years on Saturday Night Live, so did David, and we had this really nice interview with her.

So we're bringing her back in case you missed it. She's, she had a character named It's Pat that was kind of a big hit on S&L. There was a movie. It was controversial in its own way, but she's very talented and very open about her life. Androgynous character. Everyone tried to figure out if it was a man or woman. That was a big joke. And it was funny.

She also was a strong utility player because like Phil, as a female, she would come in and she was in a lot of sketches because of this. And she could play anything and throw a wig on and give her an accent. And it was fun to sit with her and look back because we were there a lot at the same time. Yeah, early 90s. Just good. You know, you always focus on the fun. And some of the tough times, but we overall, we all had a great time there. She was a trip down memory lane.

Yeah, one of the greats, Julia Sweeney. You've done two or three one woman shows based on... Well, really just one. Letting go of God was the... Yeah, that's the religion one. The other ones are other things. God said, ha. Yeah, I got it.

So you're an atheist. Yes, although I really... It sounds so negative, but it's just... Yes, well, no, because to American ears, Atheist sounds like I hate puppies and flowers. Yes. It sounds kind of a Nazi-ass thing to it or something. Yeah, even though the Nazis weren't atheists,

which I'm always explaining to people. Okay, but anyway, well, it comes from Catholicism. But yeah, I, yeah, I mean, I've had a, yeah, I don't believe, I don't, let me put it this way. I don't live my life under the assumption that there is a deity watching what I do. Right. I guess that makes me an atheist. Yeah. I guess I don't know what I I keep coming back to this like I can't comprehend infinity that there was no beginning or end to this whatever. Why do things exist and when did they get here? So I keep going around with that. I did know a Jovis witness once who told me he could understand infinity. I said, so you can think of a God who never was not here was always here. He looked up and he goes. Yeah, I got it.

Yep. That'd be. I want to say to the record, I like puppies and I like flowers. Me too. I think, Julie, what people is the, it hits the ear like, if you don't believe in that, then you don't believe what we believe is that that created those things. So you're against everything. Is that kind of what the vibe is?

Yeah, that's it. And it's like a very, I used to think I could, I don't know what I thought. I guess I thought doing my show I would change people's mind. I wasn't doing it to change people's mind. Actually, the reason I did the show is because for me, it was a huge, huge, the philosophical transformation. I wasn't particularly religious before. So it was about age 40 that this happened.

Well, I was religious. I wanted to be a nun in high school. I was completely committed Catholic, but I let it kind of go away. And then I had a crisis in my life that made me believe more. Like I really felt, you know, like I had religious experiences. And then after that, I started trying to think, well, what was going on with those experiences? And then as I learned more and more about the brain and how we evolved, then I finally read the Bible. I, you know, and then over two years, I realized that I could explain it psychologically or naturally or, you know, like I didn't need a God to explain what happened to me.

And then so then I wanted that was a big dramatic change in my life and I had been doing these one person shows about things like that. So I thought, oh, that's a good challenge to kind of do a one person show about a change of mind that all the dramas all takes place in your head. And that was really hard and I didn't necessarily achieve it. I had to make stories and you know, like I had to conform to normal dramatic structure. But I did it and it was probably my most popular. show and but I wasn't thinking I'm gonna convince people to be an atheist it was more like it have comedic tones I'm sure oh yes it was actually I felt defensive about it because I felt like I was getting as many laughs per five minutes as comedians were but because it was a difficult topic I wasn't considered a stand-up you know like right and well it's a brave topic and that's harder and stand-up it's more respected in a way to try to tackle things instead of 7-11 which I tackle I watched about 12 minutes of it. I thought it was really charming.

And the way you walked yourself into it was very disarming for the audience. But yeah, did I ever believe in a magic God and all that stuff? No, I'm with you on that. I mean, I never bought it. And no one bought it in the Lutheran Church. Even the pastors, you could tell. Oh, I fully believe now that everyone, no one really believes it. I mean, like, I think it's just about tribalism and history and affection for the ritual.

and affection for the way of life. And so it almost is like it was useless to try to argue rationally with someone about it. It isn't a rational choice. It's usually you're born into it or you have an emotional thing that makes you join something because it helps your life. Like, and, you know, I don't care. That's fine with me with people. Like, I'm not, you know, so. I went back to the Catholic Church with my wife and I found it just interesting because

they were talking about Pontius Pilate and stuff. You know, and it's like, wow, they're still doing it. It was like going back in time. But I'm still doing these bits. Yeah. But David. I know it's the old material. David, have you ever had to.

Yeah. Now I kind of as a hobby followed these right wing Catholics. It's interesting. Right wing. Okay. Oh, yeah. There's a huge schism coming in the church, I think. Oh, that makes sense.

There's the Latin masters and there are the people who were with Pope Benedict and not with Pope Francis and they think Francis is the anti-Pope. Did you say Pope Benedict or Pope Wannadick? Good night. Sorry. Anyway, I canceled. I'm sorry. I'm canceled every five minutes.

I like that one. I just made it up. Anyway, so we talk about your other supernatural experience meeting David Spade in 19- When you got, my question for Julia is, and then we're going to get to me and Julia, of course. when she i think you came from groundlings so when there when when that happens and you can explain how it happens is there any jealousy when someone gets plucked out of groundlings well it's so funny i think i was so naive i didn't think anyone was jealous of me and i wasn't jealous of other people

but now i understand that most people get really jealous of those things i mean so i was just kind of oblivious about it towards me and and the people who got on before me, like Phil Hartman and John Lovitz, who I only didn't know well. But I knew Phil a lot better than John. But I didn't feel jealous. I just thought, wow, that's so exciting. You know, like, I didn't. But there's something wrong with me that I don't feel that way.

I actually don't feel that way. No, it's an innocence. It's a nice innocence that you might, you learn later like, oh, shit, they're mad at me because of this or I started to feel those tingles of jealousy at Esenel, to be honest. Oh, at SNL, that's different of getting honest. Yeah. Well, at Groundlings, everyone's good too, you know, but SNL is just a whole other level, like going from college probably to, uh, oh, yeah.

I mean, my experience of the groundlings was all for one and one for all. And if someone gets something, we're all happy. And then at SNL, it took me a long time to understand how to be competitive, you know, like I didn't it was really brutal I was really kind of a lamb fed to the sharks in certain ways but I did adapt Melanie Melanie Hutzel we talked with recently and she talked about her and she's so sweet and so Southern and she talked about that the difference the standups were kind of trained to kill yeah destroy and elbow out right and seem like the groundlings were sweeter and nicer overall oh wait I mean I'm sure I was naive and I was and for

frankly, I was succeeding so much. I didn't know. That sounds arrogant to say, but at that moment, I was succeeding enough that I didn't have any awareness of the competitiveness of it. I was just thought we were all doing it. And, but then when I got to SNL, well, actually, and I feel like I had mostly really good experience there, but now that I'm older, and I look back, I think I, I, I really didn't understand what was going on.

I didn't understand how hard you had to compete. I thought we were all just going to look out for each other. Yeah. Well, when Nora and Jan left and you came in, it seemed like you had a lot of, you were very active initially. You were doing stuff before I was beaten down. Well, you became the go-to wife.

A solid utility. You were just in every sketch in a sense. You and Phil had that sort of a lot of sketches together, right? And you were very active, your first. Yeah. I mean, he was with, Jan was mostly his wife, but I was like, I was the B-team wife. But then,

And Jan left the show and there you were. And then you came in. You were the alternative wife. Did you and Jan overlap a year and maybe Nora? One year. Okay. A year, yeah. And Nora, not at all?

No, because I think I replaced her. Oh, he chased her out is what we call it. No, she quit. There was several shows she was not at. Sharp elbows. You got some sharp elbows, sweetie. Yeah. That's a good S&L book title.

Yeah, sharp elbows. Well, yeah, Julia, so you come in, you get plucked from the groundlings. Was it anyone else with you or was Phil and John Artie there, but you got plucked solo? Yeah. And, you know, it was between me and Lisa Kudrow. Ooh, really? And when I got it, I thought, you know, I hope Lisa gets something. She deserves success like me.

Yeah, bless her heart. And I hope she, you go, I hope one day she makes tens of millions of dollars. You know, because she deserves success. You know what? She deserves it. You know what's funny? I'm not saying if there was room for two women and I'm saying back then it was probably a lot tougher where they wouldn't even consider that. I know.

But you and Lisa would have been such a score. Oh, yeah. I mean, Pluck together. I mean, yeah. So, I mean,

it was, I kind of bought into that culture too. Like you have three women and seven to ten guys. That's how it is. That's way too many women. That's right. Yeah. Yeah,

it was a good ratio. 12 guys and three women. I really enjoyed that. in fairness it was true that there was you know talk about not enough for the women and it was true so and it's very it's i think nowadays they're more cognizant of it because there's a lot of great women have come through there and i think i think you paved the way also changed everything i think she revolutionized us now yeah and doing update and and and writing and bringing women in and yeah and pointing out that there's no reason not to have the women that if all the sketches

are so male focused that there's only women as weird archetypes and sketches here and there. It's like you're never going to get the women used. You have to really change your whole point of view. And I wasn't there, and I don't even know Tina Fey, but I, I sense that there was a huge revolution took place. That was a good one. You know, it's funny when Tina was there, that was, it sounds crazy, but it might have been the first time when there's like a sketch with all women.

Yeah. Where people would be like, what? Well, she wrote about that in her book. I mean, not about the sketch, but just about why you couldn't have a whole sketch group that was all women. Or like, why can't, why wouldn't you be able to think up a lot of sketches for a lot of women that didn't happen to have a man in it? You know, like, and, and I was, I had that prejudice myself.

Like, I really thought, oh, yeah, you think of something for a guy to do. And then you think how you could come in. You know, like, it took a long time for me to. how much the sexism was even in myself. Yeah. And that was sort of the way it was. We were all there around the same time. And I remember it was just the way it was thought of good or bad.

It was just the way it was thought. Yeah. It's amazing how you don't even question certain things. Like I thought of myself as a liberated, progressive person. And yet I didn't. I thought, oh, yeah, it will always be three women and 10 guys. Well, also they, Sarah Palin came in as a vice presidential candidate. So that was, and then Hillary later, so that gave two political parts that were, you know, I don't know who you could do back then really.

I mean, Senator Feinstein, she was there. Oh, you said you did Chelsea. Did it say that she had that rubbed somebody wrong? Yeah, Hillary. Oh, you did. You did Chelsea, okay. Chelsea Clinton and then Hillary got like it. And then people were saying how unattractively I was playing Chelsea.

and all I did was not wear makeup and put braces on. I was like, if you say that, you're saying I'm unattractive, like, which maybe that's so, but it's like, that's like I wasn't trying to play her unattractive. With all that prosthetics, you made her look horrible. You're like, I just went, I just watched my face. And then I walked in. Yeah, I just didn't wear makeup and put on braces. That was it.

And a wig, a long wig, curly wig. But anyway, but I understood what Hillary was saying, especially now that I'm a parent. Like it's like, yeah, fuck off, you know. I mean, don't play kids. I mean, that was wrong. She was right. That was wrong. What about when Farley played?

The show apology. Who was the mayor or was it? Whose kid did Farley play and he played him like such a moron jumping all over his dad and while he's giving his speech? Oh, yeah. Was it Phil? Was it Giuliani? I can't remember. Giuliani.

Yeah, was Giuliani's 10-year-old boy. Andrew boy yeah yeah and he would just wear a suit and grab and eats hamburgers and yeah if I was I would have been furious of course if you had to watch that as your own kid yeah we did a lot of things that we couldn't do now you know I was in Lyle Bullock the effeminate heritosexual I know but I can't people mention that to me so often I mean people love that that describes the type of person and behavior that is recognizable that had been labeled yet. I mean, like that was, at least in a pop culture sense. So I feel like that. And I think that's true.

That is true. There are people who are feminine and heterosexual who are men. That's a true thing. I mean, like, I don't, I don't, I don't even why.

I don't see how people could be offended by it. Well, what I found out later that pained me was that, I think it was the mixer in the booth. The gentleman at the time was gay. And when that sketch came on, he recused himself. Oh, really?

Someone else worked to leave her. So. Why does he think that being effeminate mannerisms is pejorative towards a gay person? I mean, right. It goes both ways. You know, like, I guess I don't, yeah, I find it hard to understand some of the stuff that people object to.

But anyway. I'm with you. We're comedians and we're not very offendable. And we want to say the thing you're not supposed to say. It's just instinctual and do the thing you're not supposed to do. And so we're not normal. But that one I couldn't do today, and I did an Asian character too. Making our way to a character called Pat, too,

which has had a resurgence in notoriety in the last few years. I mean, there's been a lot of talk about it. You were way ahead of the game on that. We're behind. We're behind. That's right. I, yeah. I mean, the thing for me is that I always thought the joke was mostly about the people who were around Pat, who were so flummox, who were so freaked out, which I thought was Christine and I at the beginning, because we wrote all those sketches together.

Zander. Oh, Christine Zander. As we said at the beginning, the jokes are not on Pat, except that Pat looks weird and drools and is annoying. It's not because of people aren't going to laugh at Pat. for Pat's androgyny, what we're laughing at is the people around Pat, and understand it that Pat's androgynous. So to me, it makes them frustrated.

Yeah, and so, but that's a subtle comedy thing, you know, that people, yeah, there's people, yeah, there's a lot of people upset by Pat. And it's, yeah. And the truth is I wasn't thinking of androgy's people as an S&L audience. You know what I mean? I was doing a character, like we're laughing at this idea,

If I thought the audience was filled with androgynous people, I probably would have played it a little differently. You know what I mean? Like we didn't think of those people as our audience. But now you would. Now you would. It would be aware of them. But then to me,

to me, the character forget that it's Pat and no one knows whether it's a man or a woman is just a funny character. I mean, the way she moved, the way she talked, it was just a funny character. Goofy.

I guess if I did it again, I would make Pat more enigmatic and make it clear that it was about the other people and not Pat. Almost more Charlie Chaplin-esque, like just people not talking much, just about everyone else's reactions. Yeah, falling down. No one's asking me to do that. So no. It's never too late for a, it's a Pat to, you know, I think it's time for another one.

We do it for eight million at Warner's. Oh, wait, let me tell you the saddest story. Okay. Now I love it. I was going to New York and I was going to go to S&L and bring my daughter who hadn't gone. I guess we've gone twice in her life, but this was one of those times. And the Supreme Court had just had a case where they had brought up Pat at the Supreme Court during the case. And Alito didn't know who Pat was.

And then there were these jokes about it. And Lauren and I had been emailing each other for something else. I think I had to get permission for something. Anyway, we had this email and either here, I was like, oh, it's not funny that the Supreme Court joked about Pat and who on the Supreme Court knew who Pat was or whatever. And then he said, when you come to the show next week, bring your Pat outfit with you to New York. Because maybe, you know, I don't know. Who knows? You know, maybe we'll do something out of the Supreme Court thing.

But then the actual act of the sad fact of me, you know, like at 58, not at really, like, packing my pad outfit in a suitcase and bringing it a little weird. Hoping that maybe we do a pad sketch. Like it was really. And of course, no one even mentioned it. And the whole, like, I had to bring the fucking pat suit. And it was so, it was such an offhand comment. And then I took it.

I shouldn't have. Oh, God. Every time I. Was it on a hanger? Did you show up? up with it on a hangar. Hello. Here's my outfit.

Yeah. It's a really funny character. So is it a cold opening or is it an update piece and everyone's like is what? No, no, no one even mentioned it. And then it was like in front of my husband and daughter, which we all just took carry on. It's like, no, I have to check my. My Pat. Oh.

And then it's like, oh well, I guess I really didn't need the reason. How come church lady never got together with Pat? Why was Pat not on church chat? That seems like. I know. God, I always travel with my Tom Petty hat. He did it. No matter where I go.

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When you came on, when you started, I started for four weeks of the end of a season with Schneider, and then I think you started with Rock and Farley. that that beginning of that year i came and visited the show when he did his um Patrick suezzy sketch oh i watched that show from the audience but i wasn't on the show yet so you came in midseason probably well no it was just i think it was the next episode oh okay maybe i knew i was going to start but i wasn't in that episode yeah i came the week before to look at a show they said why you come early and i think that may be what they do to us but and you watch it and going

oh my god i'm gonna be part of this shit it's moving so fast i have no idea what's going i think it's scary watching a practice show knowing projecting yourself out there a week later how will i be out there but you guys are you're because you guys see to me it wasn't but it wasn't scary to me but that's not saying that it shouldn't have been scary but um i think because of doing sketches at the groundlings like i it was just like i was in so many sketches and you had to learn it was very similar to being at the ground yeah yeah you're right that's right that's different for me and dana because we So it didn't seem scary. I just,

I actually had the opposite. Like I thought, as I watched it, I thought, oh, I can do this. I can do this. Oh,

good, yeah. Wow. So you come in and you see all of us. So Phil, you knew and you have great admiration for Phil. And you guys were, we're good. He'd been my teacher at.

Oh, teacher. Yeah. God, who's better to teach? He's so good. Oh, my God. No,

he changed my life with his teaching. He was such a, he could really, not very many comedians can explain why they're funny and how they do it. And he could, you know. Funny thing about Phil seeing around the office

is how Dana knows him way better, but how unassuming and how egoless. And he's always thinking about other things at work when I'm only thinking about SNL because I'm so, but he's so good. He would be like, hey, I might go fishing this weekend or hey, and then you think,

how are you thinking of one other thing? This is driving me mental to try to, but he just great. I just remember how organized he was. He had his folder, all the sketches, all the lines. he really made sure he knew his lines. Oh, he's so good, yeah.

He took it so seriously. Yeah, and then he was so disciplined around it, and then he would have a popular mechanics or some kind of motorboat today magazine. Yeah, or surf magazine. And then he'd look at the schematics of an Evan Rood, and then he'd put it down, and then he'd go in a rehearsal scene,

nail it, perfect, go back out. I think he had that red hard cover that says Saturday Night Live in the corner in that circle, and then it was like a red, a hard notebook, and you'd open it up, three ring binder. and you put your, that's right.

Yeah. I'd put my two pages of script for that week in there and open up. Aw. My update bit. It's a consistent theme with David.

He had a rough time. I keep saying it. And then, so you got along pretty much, like you knew, what were your first thoughts of like an Adam or something? What's my first thoughts about what?

About like Sandler or Farley? Sandler came a little later, I think. Oh, right. Maybe a year later. Yeah, I think he wasn't there right away. Ellen Clegghorn was with you. Chauvin Falon.

Yeah, I love Chavon. Melanie Hutzel and Beth for each season. Beth K. Hill, yeah. Those were kind of your primary. I didn't really know Beth very well. She was just there for one year. But yeah, I mean, it was exciting. I mean, of course, it was the most exciting thing.

You're at the center of the universe. And you're at the top of what you would want to be for your, you know, your skill set. I mean, like, it's the best. I mean, it was the greatest, most thrilling thing. I would say it was completely great until the last year. And at first, what happened the last year? Well, I, for one thing, the sketches changed.

They were more bro sketches. Who would be doing that? There was no place for me in those sketches. I mean, like, there was no, and I wasn't getting my own stuff on, and no one was casting me. Christine had left. That was the big thing. So we had written together every week

and she'd gone to work on Third Rock from the Sun with Bonnie and Terry. Christine Zander. Great writer. I just was lost without her, frankly. And I felt like the sketches were more, I remember something, I mean, it was kind of terrible.

There was some sketch where they had to have a beautiful woman and I was listening to everyone talk about how none of the women who were on the show could bring. A beautiful woman. And they had to bring in a model because there was literally no one there that even with makeup and everything

who could pass as sexual. And so and then I was like, wow, I'm. Oh my God. Really have, I mean, not that I would have necessarily been that choice anyway, but it's like that point of view, there just was no room for me. Now, looking back,

I think I should have pushed harder of my own comedy and I should have, you know, shoulda woulda coulda, let everybody does. Well, Zander and the Turner's who, if people listening, Bonnie and Terry Turner were great writers together. Christine Zander was wonderful. So, so having them in your corner or at least a piece of it or something really takes a chunk away and you need every piece to keep going. And if you have a little bit slipping and I knew it would be harder, but I didn't know it would be devastating. You know, I didn't know that it would be. I thought bottom would drop out.

Yeah, the bottom really seemed to drop out. And so for the first time, there were sketches, shows I wasn't even in it. You know, like, and, yeah, that was hard. It was really hard. I could hardly wait to leave at the end of that year. But up until then, though, it was fantastic. Yeah, sure.

It really was very exciting. Yeah, it seemed like you, I was there three years with you. And it just seemed like you were really, really active in the show. Yeah. And I think that was a big part was my youthful enthusiasm. And also Christine. Yeah. Who wrote the reconciliation sketch?

It was such a. Oh, me. That actually, I had written that sketch. Well, Christine and I wrote it together. But I had had the idea and done a kind of early form of that sketch. Do you want to describe what it was? Well, it was. Now I'm thinking, is that really true?

It's the one with Alec Baldwin plays the handsome priest. It was, Alec Baldwin came on and he's so handsome. And, you know, he's just, he's like, he's one of those guys who's handsome and funny, as you know,

blah, blah, and I was telling Christine that in my Catholic high school, they had changed confession and they now called it reconciliation. And you looked at the priest in a room instead of going to a confessional. And that at our high school, I went to an all-girls Catholic high school.

And the priest was father, Bowley, and he was so handsome that people would get so disqual. distracted telling them their sins. That's funny. They couldn't like he was so handsome. Father Baldwin. And then I would go in and start flirting with the priest and then it was creepy and everything.

And that I would start making up sins just to stay in the confessional. You know, like just so we could keep this conversation going. Yeah. And so we wrote that with an outlet came in and wrote it with us. I mean, at least parts of it with us. And God, that was really fun. It was so much fun. Very, very funny.

He was perfect casting and then you were, you played it beautifully. And then the best thing about that, we had written a line at the end where, because I'm like, I cheated on my diet. And he's like, well, that's not really a sin. And I'm like, oh. And then he goes, but I know, I know what it's like to, you know, try to be going to diet. What did you cheat with? And I go, I ate a whole box of Oreos.

And he says, oh, do you like to unscrew it and eat out the creamy center or something like that? There you go. And then the standards and practice is like, you can't say eat out the creamy center. We suggest you say, lick out the cream. They always get it more pornographic. It's so funny.

Every time. Classic. Okay. Really? Wow. Good. Can you say go down on the Oreo? I think that would be better.

Yeah. Exactly. This is just a Catholic 20 second story. My wife and I were married to Catholic Church. The priest, we went to dinner with him. this and that. They usually have a few pops. You know what I mean? And my wife

drinks. Very pretty. 23 at the time gets up, goes to the bathroom with their tight jeans. He looks and says, if you don't marry her, I will. That was the priest. Good night. That's all I got. David? Julia, were you there when Alec?

I'm just looking at your thing where it says, you brought up Alec and then it says she demonstrated an early talent for mimicry. What is that? Is that like an IMDB or something? Yeah, it's awesome. A love of directors.

By the way, I was not good at mimicry. And people would often have, you know, assigning me famous people to play. And I feel like I really was like C, C minus at that. Like, I actually don't have a good. Special skills at the bottom. Mimicry. I heard you're good at mimicry. And you're like, you're a mimic in third grade.

Do you remember Dana? I don't think Julie was there. But Alex's first. show was my like third one and he did a sketch called the mimic unless he did it later oh I think no no I think he had done it when he came he had already done that this is the stupid sketch and he was so funny goes the mimic and he pick up phone and go hello he goes he can do anything and then he was like kind of bad at all of them and uh because he actually is good at all these accents and stuff but they just and he dressed all black the mimic well the class it was

frank gorshwin he was a brilliant impressionist on ed sullivan in the 60s and he would do the classic turn away from the camera and kind of fluff his hair up and then come back, which is like, look at me now, you know. I like that kind of impression. Yeah, we can do voices. So, Dana, do you, you live in L.A. now, not in Mill Valley anymore? I was just in Mill Valley. The actual address is, no, yeah, I was just there. We have the 1912 haunted house up there. And I've experienced, I don't know,

know if I believe it, but Poltergeist up there. What? And I told Dan Aykroyd about it and he says, I got to get someone in there, check it out. It's in one particular bedroom. And at night, I would hear white noise because my son had moved out of that bedroom and moved in with his brother because he felt, and

I would hear white noise because there was a portable radio there, so I would walk in and then the white noise would stop. All that. And it happened, you know, a couple of times a year, and I saw some things. Anyway, I'm in a... I happen to know the top paranormal debunker in the United States, if you're interested. I don't necessarily believe in it.

I've had the nightmare where you feel of pressure on your chest, even though you're in a waking dream state. And that made me leave the San Yen Cedero Hotel one night with my wife at three in the morning. I woke her up and said, we have to go now because I felt the pressure on my chest when I'm sleeping and bouncing up and down on me. and then I went and used the bathroom thought, okay, that's a, I was dreaming. Then I laid back down and I felt like I was awake as I am right now. And then massive pressure that felt angry pushing down on me and I was just couldn't move. And then it released me. But now, didn't you have heart issues?

Like, isn't there a physical explanation for that? Yes, Dana. I had seven stents and a botched bypass 25 years ago. Look at me now. Those are my issues. Let me charge myself. No, but I mean, there's, I mean, there's always a natural explanation.

I mean, always. By the way, Julie, I know a paranormal bunker. They should meet your debunker. Dana, I get scared at my house because I just moved and I don't want to hear that story because I hear like clicking in the house settling in quotes and Julia will say it's a house settling,

which I say because I can't in the middle of the night when it's dead silent, you're so scared. You're like, I have to think of a reason what's going on. because it's always scary, but I haven't felt pressure or anything like that. I would fucking freak out.

Oh, I ran out. Since I became a person who doesn't believe in supernatural things like that, except us. Yeah. I never get scared. I mean, I get scared when I think there's a reasonable chance that something's truly wrong.

But that kind of stuff, I just think if there's some things making the sound. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not frightening of it at all. Because I never got hurt. It just flipped me. out the first time, but I don't know if I said this, but I, Mike Myers, who kind of read the

encyclopedia as a five-year-old, you know, nightmare is, is a, from the word, you know, it's some medieval Latin prefix or for a mayor, and I, i.e., a horse feels like it's laying on top you. And it's just a waking dream state. I read about it in the New York Times. The brain disconnects. David, you're fine. I mean, you, that scared me and I've never heard about the horse part, but I like it. Julia, you were in cone hair. You know, we, we should, you were in Conn's, weren't you? That was sort of a sign. Wasn't it or no?

You weren't in Conn's? Well, I remember thinking I'm playing the principal and Chris Farley's playing a high school student and we're only like four years apart in age. That tells you a lot about joking. Yeah, that was fun. I don't remember that much about it. Yeah, I was in it too. Believe me, we were all in it.

I think as I think Lauren just said, David, you'll be reporting to cone heads. And I was like, oh, yes, sir. Yeah, I think it was something. Like, it was like you just were told that you were going. But David, you know what I remember is that sketch you wrote, not necessarily for me, but I got to be the main comedy driver of it. I always bring that up and the sketch. Remember the sketch where I go on the date and I just keep ordering expensive food?

And then I start talking about how I'm not going to put out. And he's trying to push me towards the more cheap, the cheaper food. Do you remember that? I don't. That's hilarious. No, and you came to me and said, I have this idea for you. I'm going to write the sketch. And it was.

Wow. I'm forgetting who the guy was. But it was some handsome guy. And the whole thing was like me like, oh, I'm so happy to be on the same. Oh, lobster and steak. That's what I'm going to get. And then it's like,

I just want to tell you that I don't ever have sex with anyone. And then it kind of goes. I mean, it wasn't that obvious, but it was really well written. And when people say, those guys at SNL, they were so, you know,

together and not, you know, really into the women that much. I say, David Spade wrote a sketch for me. That was one of the best things I ever did. That's so great. And he wasn't even in it. He just wrote it.

You know, like it was a very loving thing to do. I don't know how much it meant about me, but I took it as a very well. You probably performed it great. Right. I know you're good. That's what you do.

And it's fun to have a sketch and you got probably had the host in there. But when you get the funny parts because it's really hard. Yeah. I mean, because usually you're not getting. to be the driver of the comedy. And you really, and that this character was, I mean, it was really the host was kind of just reacting to me.

And you had just written it. And it was just the most wonderful gift. I mean, it was just an incredible thing. And I bring that up at least once a month I'm telling people that. And David's made. And David doesn't remember. I said, that's the most baffling part. The sketches I wrote, I didn't write that many.

That's crazy. Yeah. Well, thank you. And I'm glad you did it. And I'm glad you remember it and say it. That's great. I don't want to talk about me forever but I like that

You want to talk about Not many people This will go full circle Got a movie out of a character Like and you did There was no church lady movie There was a Stuart Smalley movie There was a pat movie in the 90s

Anybody else Of a character I think those were the two Those two should have been in the movie together They would have been great I know it But is that a bittersweet memory Or is it a good one?

Bittersweet. I had such a good time making it. We didn't know what we were doing. I didn't do it with Lorne. I didn't understand the politics. He wanted to do it. But then. Oh, didn't he own it? Didn't he own the character? No, I was one of the people. When I came in, my lawyer got me to own Pat. I don't know how it doesn't matter. I mean, got it. So you owned it and did it outside the system. So I could have because I had done that character at the groundlings. I don't know why. Anyway. So he did. So it was my choice. And I think I made a dumb choice not to have Lauren be the producer of it because all kinds of awful things happened. Aside from the fact that we didn't write a good script. I mean, like, you know, so I don't know. It was, it was really fun to do it. And it was really fun to make it. Oh, my God, it was so much fun. And I learned so much. And then it was really a big bomb. And but I always felt great. grateful for it. And I am I wrote to Eisner afterwards and said how I know I made it. I know I just wasted $8 million of your money. But I learned so much and had a great time. And I know that shouldn't compensate for it because that's a lot of money. But I just want to say everything about it was really great. And thank you. I'll never forget that obviously. And then he sent that letter around Disney.

I was like, here's somebody who's grateful for a failing. Yeah. Wow. You know, Julia, Yeah, I did that with a movie once, and I think that's so cool you did that. I felt so bad after a movie, I called the guy and said, I appreciate you doing it. I'm just so sorry. I didn't do what you wanted kind of thing. And I don't think you wrote me back. But I do think for myself, I felt like I needed to do that. Yeah, I mean, you realize, like now, of course, everything's so different now, but I don't know how I would have done it differently.

and maybe I wasn't really up to the task of turning that into something successful, but it wasn't. And, and, you know, yeah, but I got the chance. I mean,

I got the chance. But Julie, is it hard to take a sketch? I'm sorry, but is it going to take a sketch? Difficult. And you've done a sketch and you feel like a lot of the good jokes is the reason the sketch is doing well.

And then you're not really starting from scratch, but to fill the whole. Yeah. No, I think it is. I mean, actually, it wasn't until late. I didn't watch all the Charlie Chaplin movies till much later in my life. And when I watched them, I realized not that Pat is any, the character of Pat is anything like the Charlie Chaplin character, but that the way he was enigmatic and let everyone else be reacting to him while he was doing physical things would have been the way to, I think it could have succeeded. But I didn't know enough to know that. I was in some very shitty movies, but I never felt like I was driving the boat. But I do think that funny with the sound off, like if the sound broke on a Pat movie, it would be nice to think it could still work.

But to solve that dilemma, especially, you know, Stuart Smalley, these are quirky characters. They're not, I think Wayne and Garth just followed Bill and Ted, and they're like dudes, you know, party on. They're very accessible. And to make Pat, yeah, it would be a challenge because it's such an eccentric character,

but usually... It's funny. It's audio. It's sort of like more for adults and Wayne and Garth could be for adults or kids. You know, they can get into it too. Yeah. Because it's like very. But you know, Stuart Smalley, I watched.

I did. When I lived in Chicago for 10 years and I was helping to teach at the Harold Ramis Film School, they have this film program that I was teaching. I was really not teaching. It was a friend of mine teaching it, but I kind of helped for one semester. And we were watching some. Harold Ramos movies and he directed Stuart Smalley. And so we watched it.

And you know what? I liked it. I thought it was a successful film. I, you know, I mean, it was, it's a really quirky movie,

but I was really, unlike Pat, when I watched the Pat movie, I was like, yeah, this doesn't work. I mean, this really didn't work.

But Stuart Smalley, I thought worked. Yeah, I mean, Harold Ramos is so talented. I think, talking to Al Franken, I think he's going on Fallon soon.

And I told him he should, he should, he should do steward smally even for the young audience and hold jimmy's hand make it all about jimmy you know good enough strong enough you know that kind of thing so oh my god you know i almost canceled myself except that no cares if i'm canceled um uh because after el frankin's debacle and demise from the senate i was so angry and upset i was so angry i couldn't sleep for a month i was so angry. And then I wrote a one person show about it and did it for like five Saturdays at the Groundlink small theater until people came up and said, Julia, first of all, this isn't even funny

in any way. It was just me. I was all I did, I went through all the allegations. Allegation number four. You know, like I was I was crazed with anger at how the Me Too movement had been twisted up in the worst possible way to go after this great guy, in my opinion. And complete, I was so angry, you guys. And then I had somebody come and say, you know, you'll never work again if you open this show. Because it's really just, even though I'm a me too supporter. But when it came to El Franken, I just could see how that all that shit went down. And it was bullshit. And it was. And then people weren't talking to me. And then I finally just dropped it because I couldn't make it entertaining enough. It really was a show of me for 90 minutes talking about each allegation

against El Franken and why and my bulletin board and this and why and why and why. And I had to stop it. I think that's when I really had went over on the other side of the culture because I felt like, okay, this, I'm so angry about this. It's so unfair. And and yet the culture is, you know, I'm not, I can't influence the culture and I'm just gonna wreck my own career and health over it. So I kind of just dropped it. And then I also realized I didn't really have the standing

for anyone to care about it, you know, what I thought about it. So I couldn't really even help him. And then later I finally saw El Franken and then I realized he didn't really care if I was doing that either. I was like,

I've just been doing a one person show about you. And he's like, Oh, thanks. You don't have to. It's kind of scary because anybody, if someone from high school said I looked at them wrong in 1973 or something. Exactly.

And it's like, whoa, I mean, you know, there's the other, the big players, we don't have to name them where it's pretty obvious. Yeah, exactly. And there was a lot of people that maybe behaved a little boorishly or something, but to be canceled for life is just a bit much. No, it was really, that was really, anyway,

I didn't mean to take us into sad territory, but that was really, really, really just fucking got my goat. I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. And I wanted, I just couldn't think of anything else. And it took a long time to just accept that's how life goes in an unfair way, sometimes for some people. And that's how it's always been. I mean, like, not for everyone.

Obviously, not for everyone. But sometimes you're at the wrong place at the wrong time. I could think, and it's almost like there was a. huge pile up on the road and Al Franken was driving on the outside of the road and his fender caught it and he just caught up in it. You know, like one one thing about Al you can rest the shirt. He's he's very resilient obviously and a tough character. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, no. When I saw him, he's already had a million ideas. Yeah. Yeah. Rosen lasagna, medium power. 15 minutes. Sounds like Ojo time. Let's play. Feel the fun with Play Ojo. The online casino with all the latest

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All right. I have a gear change question for Julia. You have a what? A gear change. gears. Okay, yes, I'm sorry. No, I don't care. We love all of it. We love all questions. I just before I got off, I wanted to ask you if you, I read that you felt badly that you might have cracked up during motivational speaker. And I never thought of that of you. I never thought anything negative about that. I did, I did, I do have a problem controlling laughing during sketching.

I didn't ever think that of you. I thought I, I fucked that sketch up. Me and Christina ruined it, but we were just laughing, which didn't really ruin it. It was just, It was so rare to happen. Yeah. It was really just seeing the funniest thing. And you knew that it was going to live forever. And you're in the middle of it and you have the best seat in the house. And I can't stop laughing.

Like I thought he did. Farley in that character. I said it on another podcast. I think that's the most, I don't know, most potent thing somebody's ever done. Maybe just the way he squatted and got ready for his next line, it's very crisp moves.

They were just, it was like, it was like Chaplin S. He's just going to get squatted, get set with his body before he, yeah, I, that might have broke me if I was in it. I think, yeah. Phil might be the only one that didn't laugh. I know Phil is so good.

He could really, I couldn't control it. I couldn't control myself. We all started to break. And that's the problem is that we, and back then, I think they do it more now. They crack up a lot. Yeah. It was definitely a no, no. No, it was terrible to do that.

You were being like, yeah, the girl Burnett show now. Yeah. Yeah, we didn't have as much fun as we could have had, you know, because I was just thought you'd get fired. I mean, when Phil finally broke, Phil finally broke doing Tonto, Tarzan, and Frankenstein, and he's Frankenstein, he crashes through the thing or whatever. And then that first time, Phil broke. Phil was done.

Fire, bad. And then he was, I was toast. And I thought, wow, this is amazing. Is he going to be in trouble? There was always fear on. that show. I wonder what it's like now because I was thinking, you know, Lauren is so much older now than the people who are performing than he was from our age. You know, like for us, he was kind of an older guy, but now he's a much, much older guy. Yeah, 76 and then a new cast member is like 22 and they're talking about comedy. I mean, that's a whole different feeling. I mean, I wonder what it's like, I don't know. The meetings are like, who's your favorite rappers? Rap singers. Right. Is Dr. Dre really a doctor? Does anyone know?

I think they always seem to find a way that show to find great people. You know, it's an incredible success that I didn't. I didn't think. I thought, oh, it'll go for a few more years. But you really have to hand it to him. I mean, like, it's really incredible. He is the show and he never panicked because there were so many years of like, we got to do it taped or we got to change the name and change.

band and he knew he had an incredible brand and he just stuck to it and like Steve Higgins said Lauren wrote the constitution of the house and then it's a liquid form it can be whatever it becomes because now going full circle with women they play a lot of mint on the right you probably would have done George Bush or Ross Barrow yes well the reason I played Pat at first is I was trying to play a man but I didn't feel like it was very convincing and so I thought oh I'll just make a joke that you don't know if it's a man or woman to kind of cover for my lack of acting ability. But now I probably wouldn't think that I'd think I could just play a man if I want it. Julia, can we just get a, because we need something to trend.

You know, we're behind smartless, but we're getting close. Inside your mind, have you ever thought to yourself was Pat a man or a woman? Just internally to yourself. Do you know the secret? I'm sorry. There is no secret. There's no secret. I know.

I wish I could so you had a little sound bite. You could. Yeah. I was out there, but I'd be lying. Making fun of sound bites. Here's a soundbite. Church lady wasn't religious. No, I don't know.

We could have done a church lady becomes an atheist. That would have been funny. Oh. I do think church lady with Pat would have been perfect, you know? You know what I think is that they just live together and you just don't ask questions about that relationship. They moved in together? you think?

I just think it would be funny if they'd just like you find out that they lived together for 35 years in separate rooms but it's just curious. Yeah. Church lady just says we anyway.

That would be your thing. We like to get dressed, don't we, and our clothes? Well, we have our special clothes on that fit us in a certain way so we can't tell quite what we are under. Dana,

anything else for the lovely Julius Sweeney to ask her? So you guys are both mainly living in L.A. I'm living in L.A. Are you? Yes. I moved back from Chicago.

And, okay. So I bought a house in 1992 that I thought was going to be a starter house, but it's an ender house. And, um, prices have gotten pricey. No, because I couldn't afford to live in this neighborhood. There's no way. No chance. Um, so now we're, my husband, I don't, I just married about 15 years ago.

And my husband and I, um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's a good guy. And he were remodeling that house. It's a small house, but it's perfect for two retired people. And so we're remodeling it and we're living next door while it's being remodeled. But it's supposed to be done in about a year.

It's supposed to be done in 10 and a half years. So are you? Yeah, it takes a while. So when it's done, I want to have you guys over. That's more like it. It'll be really pretty. And we can sit in the backyard and I'm a good good. I would love it.

Will you invite us? I'll go as Danes plus one. Do you have my email or Greg will give it to you? No, Greg, you'll give me both their emails. Yeah. I think I saw you David at somebody's, who was it? Some of a party. Oh, David at a party?

Yeah, that's crazy. No, Dana. Those are the good old days. But I still go out if it's someone's dinner or some small thing like that, yeah. Yeah, that's what I used to have big parties all the time. I used to have a Sunday night party that was huge. every Sunday. I think I remember that.

Yeah. But now I like four to eight, small, the right people, nice food, early. Early and early is the key. I like to eat early. I like to eat it four or five. I eat it five. And so I would have an adult beverage. We're on the same page.

Yes. Yes. Early, fun, maybe Sunday, four to eight, boom, get in, get out. Yeah, maybe four to seven. And you're an atheist, so you won't care. It's a whole. day. Sorry.

I am too. I'm an agnostic. I'm pretty sure I'm not an atheist. I don't know. Whatever. Joke to come. Julia, send us a mass email and

get Dane and I on that. Julia Sweeney, one of the all-time great cast members of Saturday Night Live. Thanks for having me. It's really nice to see you guys. And when you're just done,

we will see you. We will see you. And if we don't see you then, we'll see you at the 50th. And my hair is going to even be more weird. Do you think they? I guess it's pretty close. to that now, right? Oh, yeah.

2025. Get the pad outfit back in the suitcase. I'll get a few little things done right before I go. The last one, I really cared about being there. And it was really important for me, my identity that I was on SNL. I'm in such a different place now. I don't even know if I'd go because I just feel like, yeah, okay. I know.

I want to fly. You just, yeah, I know, you can't. It's really, it's really about Lauren, you know, kind of. Well, no, I mean, it is fun, but you don't, it's not like you know. really talk to people. I mean, like, you just kind of be in the, no,

you're going, hey, there's, there's Bill Hader or there's, there's Melanie Hutzol. Yeah, I know. It's everywhere,

but nowhere. I like a small party. Six day people. I think instead, I'll just, I'll have it. After you guys go, I'll have my dinner party

and you'll tell you all the juice. Yes. Yes. Juice it up. All right. Juicy. Okay, honey.

I'll get your emails. Yes, get our emails. We love to keep in touch. And so great to see you. So good to see you. Fun part of this podcast. Hey, guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are,

be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app. Give us a review, five-star rating, and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now. Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, and executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro, and Greg Holtzman,

Maddie Sprung Kaiser, and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey. Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet Tech. Booking by Cultivated Entertainment. Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Mora Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kurt Courtney, and Lauren Vieira. Reach out with us any questions to be asked and answered on the show. we can email us at fly on the wall at odyssey.com. That's A-U-D-A-C-Y-I-I-com.