Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - RE-RELEASE - Mike Myers & Paul Myers

Episode Date: September 23, 2026

What a special treat to have had these 2 on at the same time!

I wore a t-shirt in honor of... Oh. You might notice this is a custom t-shirt. The Ringo is in a different world. That was in here now. Oh, it's usually Georgian. Oh, great. He's here.

Oh, I hear Mike. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's the BBC one. Come in. Hello. Hey, baby, say. Um, okay.

So you still... Yes, you're there. Yeah. Uh, second day here. Yes. Uh, Mike. I was going to wear a Toronto, Toronto, my police hat as well.

You can always call that audible. We have no rules, obviously. Mike pushes Canada more than almost anyone. You do a good job. You must be like a hero. Well, you know what? It's when he attacked us, that was rough. You know, hurt our feelings.

We love Americans. Oh, good. Yeah, I think I still like Canada. I didn't know I didn't like them, but I guess I was. No, no. No, we had a, we had a. We had a guess on recently who kind of knows Donald Trump, like talks to him. He said that I'm paraphrase, the guy, Donald Trump wakes up every day and just sees,

if it's someone, he's mad at someone, he'll just mess with him. So I said, so when he said, well, we'll make candidate our 51st date, he was joking. That's what he said. Of course he had no intent. He didn't go well. I'll tell you that. But Trump's a little, you know, you don't go, is he serious? Because then I started thinking, well, my wife's from Canada.

We do flow together nicely. Yes. Oh, yeah. All my important people are Canada. Yeah. It doesn't matter. It's madness. We have a very important announcement.

Yes. It's your brother's shirt. And there's a difference in the order. John Paul. We got these. So why the Ringo before George? Yeah. This is interesting.

Yeah. It's what we call a whim. It was a whim. It was me not remembering how the sequence went and I'm feeling very pro-ringo at the time. And we had somebody, we had a friend. This is based on a international jet set design. That's the name of the company. And they had George third.

And I know that he's the third songwriter in the band. And that's why he's third. I was feeling so pro-ringo that I had the shirts commission. Mike has one somewhere in storage. I think it was on the storage. It's just it didn't make it down. to New York. Yeah.

I guess that's what I meant. You're storing it somewhere else. Easy with the storage accusation. It's in Provo, Utah, and it's all very hush-ush. Yeah. Yeah, it's very quiet. Something with a data center, Elon Musk, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

It's all good. So strictly need to know. But I would get, getting back to Beatle nerd for a second, Paul and Ringo had their own special relationship as the rhythm section. Yeah. I always wanted to, and you guys could relate to this, back to the Beatles. In 1965, my dad was an ex-Army guy, so he would literally give us crew cuts, me and my three older brothers. There were four of us.

There's three of you guys. And I always wanted to have kind of beetly, messy hair around 1965. So, and obviously, Paul kind of as well. That's not, it's disordinated. But you, that's not a hairpiece. That's your actual hair, because it is a. Amazing. Who?

Mine or Paul's? Well, your hair is just very, your hair looks cool. Yeah. No, that's my, it's military. Mike always had good hair. Even back on the show, I was quietly jealous. It's true. The gray as it stays.

That's my theory. Oh, yeah. How do you feel about me telling the secrets of your childhood haircuts? Because Mike was the guy who, if he didn't like the barber in the family haircut, he would storm out and say, I'm going to go get my own hair cut. Whoa. And we were like, you can do. that and I had the money to do it. That was a great hero.

How old were you when you said this? I did you get struck money. I did TV commercials. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Were you cute? I was cute. Mike was very cute.

But can I just say that were you cute that you just, the reading of that was maybe the creepiest reading of were you cute ever heard of my life? There was an undertone. I didn't want to mention. It comes out once in a while. I don't know what it means. I'm not going to go.

there. No, but Mike, I learned that when I was in an airplane, when you say to a baby, oh my God, you're so cute, you have to say it like that, you can't go, oh my God, you're good looking. Yes. No. Okay, just go find your seat. It is all in the

You know, I'm just going to get a Coca-Cola. Get a Coca-Cola. I'm going to I want to do one thing before we get in the Beatles anyway, which is Paul wrote a book. Yeah, there we go. Yes, it's true. Paul wrote a book about John Candy.

Do you want to tell that journey of where you wrote the book and then what happened with the documentary? There it is. Yeah. John Candy, my life in comedy. Well, the story of me writing that book, thank you very much for mentioning it, Dana. The story of me writing that book is that I had written a book about the Canadian sketch legends, the kids in the hall.

And that was published by a company called House of a Nancy Press. And they really liked the book and they said, you know, we want you to do another book. And I wanted to do like a sketch comedy book. And then my editor actually said, a guy named Doug Richmond, he said, if you do it about just John Candy from Second City, you could also get to talk about all those cool movies he made. And I was like, dude, that's my next book. And I spent three and a half years sort of, you know, searching out Steve Martin, Dan Aykroyd, Catherine O'Hara, pretty much everybody who you need to talk to and people that

you didn't know you needed to talk to. Like people who worked on the shows, people who worked in the crews, and people who wrote some of the scenes for SCTV that you don't hear their names all the time. And it was just they all had stories about John. And I put together this idea of who John Kennedy was and why we still love him like 30 years after he died. We miss him, dude. Yeah, we miss him. He might be one of the most universally liked performers.

Literally, I have never heard one negative thing about it. It's true. He was very nice to me. So you wrote this book, which I'm reading, by the way, and I'm loving it because for me, being in the world I'm in, I went up through stand-up, but Mike went through, you know, different Second City and all that. So it's very interesting how through John Candy, you go, you're really getting into the nitty-gritty details, which I have to say, it is different reading this book than the documentary that is out, that is great, that weirdly came out. And I remember talking to Colin Hanks and going, you know, Paul, my, Myers is doing a book about, you know, John Candy. And he went, huh, and he walked away. No, I made that up. But that can be great.

But this book is so detailed and so experiential as far as the grease paint and the food and everything. I'm just really enjoying it. So great job. Well, thank you. You know, when I was writing the book, I knew that they were the candy family, who I consulted before I even started doing. That's Jennifer, Chris, and the mother Rose. and John's widow, Rose, and they are great people.

And I contacted Jennifer and I said, I want to do this book. This is three years ago. I want to do this book about John Kennedy. I'm going to be respectful to your dad, who's a hero of mine. I wrote about these kids in the hall. And I'm familiar with the world of Second City through my brother. And she said, oh, we know who you are. We think you're going to do a great job.

But we are making a film of our own. So I hope you don't mind. But we're going to make our own movie. And I said, oh, cool. And at that point, Colin Hanks wasn't involved. And then I kept following their progress, but I didn't know where they were. And then we announced about a year ago, October 7th was our release date for John Candy, A Life and Comedy.

Thank you. And then I've got about two months by Paul Myers, yes, House of a Nancy Press. You know, it's available everywhere. And then about somewhere in that process about two months later, there was an announcement that they were premiering their film. Ryan Reynolds produced, Colin Hanks, directed, I Like Me, and it was going to be on Amazon, three days after our book comes out. And you might think that's like a bad timing,

but I think it's the best timing. It's like because now everyone's seeing the pictures of John Candy and a generation that maybe didn't even know the genius of John Candy is now conversing to the point where they're going to want to read. Yeah, it's not another. And Ryan reached out to me too afterwards and he said, let's do an event together. So we're on the same team.

We're all on team Canada. Yeah, and I do think that, yeah, it's not like it's another biography about. John Candy they can work together and the awareness now it usually comes in threes but it is interesting historically where all of a sudden everyone goes John Candy you know and I only knew him through his movies and Second City and that but it's his journey to what did you I'm just curious off that obviously his kindness and all that is there what was the other surprises about your investigation sort of or your your immersive thing of find out who this guy

I was. I was surprised to learn, and I guess it made sense, that he was a great actor first, before he even wanted to be a comic or comedian. He started on the stage in Toronto, and he'd been, his idols were people like Charles Lawton. You would never think that, you know, but, and Jackie Gleason, of course. So he, he loved comedy. He was a huge fan of the Dick Van Dyke show and things like that. But he really wanted to do dramatic arts. And if you think about it, the, I'm going to sound like an egg hit here, but the emotional intelligence that he brought to his roles, even a big broad character like Ox from Stripes, he brought that certain actorly sense of, this isn't just a guy making a joke. This is, this is somebody who has a life, you know,

and it doesn't have to show you the life. It's just there. And he presents it. And I don't know nothing about acting, but I know that he seemed like he had something going on there. Yeah. And that, that confirmed by people like Oliver Stone who said when he put him in JFK, remember John Candy had a small part of JFK. And it was a very serious role. And Candy's commitment to getting the New Orleans accent and working on actually portraying Dean Andrews Jr., Oliver Stone said, this guy could do anything. This guy should be, he kind of predicted that he would be on the Academy Awards best actor list at some point. Sadly, he passed away before. How did he pass away?

But it was 1994. So we were all in the show or were we all in the show or you were done, Dana by then? Yeah, I was still on the show. I just left. Mike was still there? Yeah. Shit, because I mean, I was, of course, hit through those movies from, you know, Uncle Buck to even Blues Brothers. It's always fun to see a movie with all but buddies you can tell and he's like the Orange Whip,

orange whip, orange whip. But just bringing, when you throw him anything, can't stop watching him. You just know if this guy says yes to this movie, I don't care what size the part is. That's a guy. And then you just grow to say, oh, this guy, I have to see what he does. So that was a fun for me. Never saw him, though. He almost hosted SNL once, but he didn't.

There was rumors he was going to come in and host SNL. Well, he almost joined the cast. And Andrew Alexander at Second City said, I'll pay you anything to not cast of S&L. They'd been losing, they lost Ackroyd and Gilda to S&L.

And this is the Second City stage, right? So before SCTV ever went on the air, they had started rate, Lauren had started raiding the cast, which is obviously you would if you're Lauren Michaels, get the best people available. And, and Second City didn't have a TV show yet. And the whole reason for SCTV was as a way to

hammer stop from hemorrhaging talent and they they end up making their own version of it that and you can see in the book i just want to say dan acroyd is a great connective tissue in this book because not only did you know john candy first audition for second city stage because of dan acroyd acroyd and Valerie brownfield pushed him into auditioning he gets picked up sent to chicago to work with bill murray god damn um and learn comedy ropes with a young bill murray and then uh and then he gets and then acroy puts him in the blues brothers. They were in 1941 together, the Stephen Spielberg comedy. And then, you know, the great outdoors. And it's just like all through it. And then Ackroyd wrote the most amazing eulogy at John's

Los Angeles funeral. And that is why when I went to Dan Aykroyd after writing this book and having these great stories, I said, there's no one else I want to have to write the forward. But Dan Aykroyd, and he just did it. I'm reading the forward going, who wrote this? It's so poetic. And then I finally, Oh, Dan Aykroy, you know. A minute ago, before we had technical difficulties, Mike, you had an intersection. I just want to hear that for a second. Oh, yeah. Mike, Mike, tell the great story about you and John Candy.

There's only two people that I've ever waited outside a stage door for. One was Lily Tomlin, and the other one was John Candy. And John came out, and I said, oh, John, I'm a big fan. I want to do what you do. And he said, you should join the second stage. workshops and it told me where it was and all that stuff. And Tim Kazerinsky was there and he was like super, super positive and helpful. So I went and took the second city workshops after seeing him. And then after Wayne's World, I went up to Toronto, visit my family. And I was at Wayne Gretzky's

restaurant. Couldn't be more Canadian than that. And across the way is John Candy. And I was like, holy shit, he's coming over. I said, I said it's a joke. to my friend and he was and he came over and gave me a big hug and so so happy for a scarborough boy to do so well and congratulations he's just so incredibly gracious and fantastic and that actually meant more to me than than a lot of things that happened during that really exciting time of Wayne's world you know it's always surreal and whenever people you know pass the torch You must have people come up to you, Mike, and you saw them in something. And, you know, it's very nice if it means something to some young performer, you know.

The only thing I say to people is someone at a hocus store, this woman, I'm in the ground lanes. And I said, the only thing I say, it's not profound at all, I just say, just work on yourself. Don't listen to who's making it or anybody else. All you can do is try to be better. It's pretty obvious. He's like, oh, okay. Because easy to get caught up in the drama. and neurosis and unfairness of show business and the pressure.

I still talk about that. Yeah, Spade and I are, well, we'll talk later. But anyway, so, yeah, the book, John Candy, A Life and Comedy. And boy, Uncle Buck, playing trains at automobiles with Steve Martin. That was such a, that one hits hard. Yeah. That's perfect movie. Yeah, it was so great.

James Hughes, the son of John Hughes, talked to me about just the relationship. that his father, John Hughes, had with John Candy. And when you realize that, the two families would vacation together, and they're both from, like, you know, Hughes is from Chicago, where he's a hockey fan, and they have snowy winters. And John, of course, is from Toronto, where they have snowy winters and hockey. And they had a lot in common beyond that.

And then they both moved to Brentwood around the same time. And so they were both adjusting to sort of being outsiders in Hollywood, but they were both at the peak of their careers. So when he wrote plane strains and automobiles, Hughes, he really understood who John Candy was as the lead. And he kind of put a lot of truth into it. And there's that great speech, what we call the I like me scene where John, his character, Del Griffith finally erupts at Steve Martin and says, you know, I like me. My wife likes me. My kids like me.

And it's, you know, my customers like me and I'm who I am and I'm not changing. And it's like it could be John Candy talking. And that's one of those great moments like De Niro and Scorsese, you know, where you have the two of them together. I said Scorsesey. Sorry. I'm busting myself for no reason. Nobody was going to bust me. And I just went and did that.

Mike knows all about it. It's Scorsesey now. How We Made Your Mother is the How I Met Your Mother rewatch podcast with me, Josh Radner, and Siri's co-creator Craig Thomas. Well, our guest today is the great Bob Oden Kirk. I want to tell you, that cast, Allison, and both. And Kobe and Neil and Jason and you. You were so upbeat and gung-ho.

The spirit that you guys had was like, I actually thought it was like, are you being, are you mocking this? Are you being sarcastic? Follow how we made your mother wherever you get your podcasts. The, um, reading through your book and mentioning some of it to my wife. And then she just said, just casually, it's not something that hasn't been talked about before. But when you read the book, you go, what the hell is it with Canada? with this low population, with this massive Hall of Fame comedians. 80% of Canada is good comedians.

It's kind of crazy and all coalescing in this same time. You know, it's sort of mind-blowing. And then the sensibility of SCTV did seem quintessentially Canadian. Or there's something about that show for an American watching it and just going, holy shit, there's just a frequency they're in that is not American. but man, was it funny? And it's not English either. Yeah, what is it?

It's somewhere in between. We're an observer nation, you don't mean? Yeah. Because we don't have, I mean, we have an identity. Actually, the kids today in Canada have way more sense of themselves than we did growing up. And what would you describe that identity as? It's, um... Well, you have a lot of creative icons, and Lorne Michaels have emerged over, at least in the arts.

Yeah. And also musicians. But I think of the nicest country I've ever been in is Canada. As far as the people treating me, I just, I was freaky. Yeah, they love both of you guys up there. But can I just say, I'd like to take the question a little bit and say that I have talked to a lot of, because I did the Kids in the Hall book last. And Kids in the Hall.

And Mike and Mike and Dan Aykroyd and Catherine Harry and Eugene Levy, all these people have shown a generation and two generations. and three generations what it means to be funny on the world stage, but also to be quintessentially Canadian while you're doing it. And then what happened was a lot of these people, this happened in a lot of areas with the YouTube generation. There's a lot of people that are just making comedy, they don't even think beyond the borders of the internet.

So they accidentally make something that's regional and specific for Canadians. So they have their own heroes. And we never used to, we used to get validation from outside sources. and we still do, but, you know, just like the Beatles had to go around the world, but they still kept their Liverpool thing. And I think that's what's going on in contemporary Canada's. We've got a whole, I say we. I don't live there, but I just spent a lot of time there recently.

I found that in Calgary, people just had their own thing, and they would love to export it, and they do, but they're really not thinking about, not all thinking about taking it away. I mean, I love Canada, and if I'd stayed in Canada, I'd be fine, and all that stuff, but I really did want to come to America. You know what I mean? Because that's the center of the center. Or I wanted to be in England, and I was in both places.

I went to England to be part of the English comedy thing. And I think that's kind of... But I also just... I knew one thing. I could probably be a hockey player because I'm from Canada, and I could probably be in comedy. Do you mean? One of the other?

It's possible. One of the other. Well, you've seen it happen. I know that we can do that. Yeah. It seemed possible. You considered both, like... Were you thought of it?

thought, when they were kids, were you taught, or was the mindset America's inferior to Canada or better or the same? Like, were you saying, I should, I really want to make it in America or they thought America is not where you want to be? That's... No, I would say, I'd say, I think the world recognizes that American show business is the best in the world, and I mean? Okay. And that's why, you know, even on Wayne's World, you know, we had a Dutch camera guy and check clapper loader and like everybody was from everywhere else you know

me and it really is the in terms of entertainment you know sure I mean they say that the Star Wars program brought down Soviet Union you know SDI but I think it was the movie Star Wars more than anything where they went holy shit you have enough

story power and enough economy power to make a whole other universe you know I mean that's better than our universe You know what's interesting about that story, too, is that you mentioned Star Wars. And what happened was, you know, America is the show, the show, right? And that's what happened with, you know, all the people who go to, Lauren takes the show and creates, Lauren Michaels creates SNL in New York City. And he always tells people like the kids in the hall, learn how to have your show play in Indianapolis, you know, learn how to, you know, it's not just about the borders where you are. It's about everyone seeing it in all the platforms, right?

But when Star Wars started interesting thing because there's an animation program at Sheridan College in Toronto that they helped create industrial light and magic and so they drained all the talent from Sheridan College and created this thing in Marin County. And it was initially staffed by like,

I don't know the percentages, but around 60% Canadian. I didn't know that. And it's again, come to the show, bring the show at the world. And the Beatles came to the show. You know, the Beatles wanted to be on Ed Sullivan.

They were conquered Britain, but they hadn't conquered America. American show business is the best in the world. And, you know, even my mom, when she saw Wayne's World, she said, oh, that dayne is very good, isn't he? Oh, she was funny that way. She was funny that way. And she was like, it's just Americans. They have it, don't they? Just Americans just have it.

Not all. Well, Canada also Jim Carrey. Jim Carrey, yeah. You know. He's fantastic. Yeah. Exploded. Norm McDonald.

The Norm McDonald. So they're like I'm from Canada. McDonald, T-H-E-E. There is no other Norm McDonald, God rest of soul. I mean, that his Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So anyway, what about great outdoors? That's a, is that a John Candy? Yeah. Yeah, John Candy and Ted Ackroy, two-hander, as they say. Yeah, it was great.

And it was so, anyone who watches that from Canada, we'll see that that's what we call the cottage, you know, which you would call cabin life, you know, and it's totally like Southern Ontario kind of setting, but it's actually set in California.

But, you know, And so what you did in Wayne's World, Mike, you made Aurora, Illinois be basically a stand-in for Scarborough, Ontario, right? Yeah, but then it's all the North American suburbs are all the same, you know what I mean? Yeah. And heavy metal is all the same everywhere. Like, you could have, you know, you see kids in Argentina dressed like Wien and Garth, you know what I mean? It's true.

Heavy metal culture, that kind of thing. Yeah, true. But, you know, Penelope did a great job, too, just creating an authentic world for the movie yeah because she knew that the we we had via of course Mike the creator uh you know Stan McKitas you know a lot of stuff from your childhood but it's all variations on a theme everyone and you know I I only had my own little theory with was just that the two guys you live with your we live with our parents we have an AMC pacer or we're nowhere we have no real money or any and we're

just the happiest people and my family too i had the brothers and his sister we were we would make rituals out of stuff you know everything would be a game or you we'd be watching a boris carloff movie all night movies and you have to run to the mailbox and come back and stuff like you guys did i'm sure and um that's was what makes wayne's world just being fun you know because they're having fun almost all the time besides the truth i don't know who was trying to steal your love interest rob blow the first one yeah anyway besides that go ahead but as brothers just for a second in canada there's a rumor that you guys were rough and tumble like you threw mike out in the snow one day or something i mean i had all kinds of stuff like that oh yeah i mean

we yeah when uh god guilty was it like the first week of first year saturday live and we were at the rivoli and we had a fist fight remember that yeah i i as as as as as as as as as as as As was happens, I can't remember why on Earth it got to that level. We often fought. We'd often, it would be like Scottish people, which is, I love you. And I'm not, get out, get out, you know what I mean? It may have been whether the Buzzcocks were better than the sex pistols or something like that. Like it really, something that really doesn't matter now.

But at the time it's like, it was very fast. Perhaps alcohol was involved. Alcohol was involved. Years were involved. Did anyone get someone in a headlock? And the guy in the headlock said, cut it out. Cut it out. Did that, did it go to that?

Did it go to that level? Oh, Peter used to do that. My brother Peter used to do spit suck, you know, the thing. That's horrifying. Oh, yeah. Flags, you remember flags? Almost gets to your head. Yeah, I was a bottom in that situation.

And then the last one was Japan, which was, wham. Well, it's just, people with not a lot of money. It's cold and you're inside, and it's a Sunday afternoon. Yeah. you're like bounce out I once dragged Mike around by his pulling his ankles and his head hit the side of a counter and you got a small cut in your head

and I thought I'd killed you. And I was like and I remember thinking, looked at your face and you were like what the hell, what the hell? And I was like, Jesus, it raining in here? And it was my blood was going to like this. I looked like a wrestler. Is it raining like the shining in here? Yeah, yeah. And what I love is my reaction, my reaction to having thought I'd killed my brother is I got on my little 10 speed bike and I ran I rode to the end of the street

hit in a park for two hours and thought I guess the statute of limitations is up I can come home now you know it was like I don't understand why I thought that was the solution if I really had killed just make a break for it in there's a but we were great yeah we did well I don't know if I had fights I just got beat up a lot or but it was quick you know I was pint pint size you know and three older brothers. But mostly, you know, most of we just had a lot of fun. My brother, Brad, the, you know, he fixed this old machine where you slid a thing, like it was a bowling alley.

And we did get a bumper pool table. And then we would just play. And we were left alone. It was pre-micormantaging parenting, obviously. No one knew where you were. Had no helmets, you know, all that stuff. Mike. Lawn darts, right?

Illegal. Imagine lawn darts now? Yeah, jarts. Yeah. We played with darts, and I threw it, and it went like that, and it just hit my brother inside his thigh where it was sticking out. Darts and jarts should be illegal still. They should be or should not be.

They should be. I think they were pretty, I mean, Jarts, a few kids in the neighborhood died from Jarts. All right, so here, just as a background here, so I just thought for myself, I thought, guy I just every time we talk about the Beatles I love it and I've been on Paul Myers podcast the official name or where you get it is Paul Myers podcast the record store day podcast with Paul Myers it's sponsored by record store day but it's on every week of the year thank you for the okay so well we went on that and I realize I've you know course with Mike over the years you know the Beatles and the clash you know

he has a other pump plane he does beetle fanatic and then when I meet him I can recognize one and then you were crazy into the Beals So I thought, I called Mike and I had the best time, though. Yeah, no, when you were on our show, by the way, I pimped you to just talk about Paul McCartney. And I think the promise I made to you was because I know I'm sensitive to comedians doing freebies on other people's shows. I said, you won't have to do material. You don't have to do material. Just come on and talk about the Beatles and do it and music.

And that's all we want you to do. And that Fred Armisen's been on the show for the same reason. And I knew that you got it because music was such a big, you know, chop and broccoli. You know, like you knew music. And that's why I brought you. It wasn't that sophisticated. But thank you. Let it be.

I don't mind. I could do Paul this poll now today. I could do him all day long. You know, I just, I'm doing it an older. But I never can get tired of the. Oh, the question thing at the end? Yeah. I get a bit older.

But so anyway, so I called Mike and just said, do you want to come on with Paul? Because I just love talking about the Beatles. So that was the idea. And now we're here. And so let's talk about the Beatles. But I think it took us five seconds to say yes, by the way. We'll do it again.

But so anyway, as a way to start off, because the reason we talk about the Beatles is because we want to celebrate them, I think. Because why are you talking about the Beatles again? And we come up with what album, whatever. Okay. So here's the first one I'll do. I do sometimes. Better melody. And I love her.

or she's leaving home. She's leaving home for me. Do you want to take this one? Yeah. I agree. I think, I think so. She's leaving home is maybe underrated, only because we hear Let It Be and Hey, Jude,

and a lot of different songs a lot out in the world. Yeah. Super Bowl or in Canada, you know. But what is your favorite melody, though? My favorite melody is Martha, my dear. Oh, that's good. Another McCartney, by the way. I think Michael,

Michael McKeon might have said that was the best Beatles song. I think so too. The mud, it's like almost a little Mozart. It's got chamber pop. It's got, it's got a, it could have been played in a Victorian sitting room. Yeah. It could have been like on a spin it piano. I want to get back to she's leaving home before we move on to that though,

because she's leaving home does something that McCartney, he was the adventurous one most of the time with the melodies. And I think John was pushing the envelope with chords and production. But, um, the, the, he, he was. she's leaving home does this Friday morning of and then there's a counterpoint with the strings like that and they're all like it's like two swans or eagles or something and and that is the most exciting thing with McCartney when he does that and I think also he's telling a story in that song that is more literal than most of his stories you know because I love Paul McCartney but a lot of times it's definitely stream of consciousness to the point where what the hell is he talking about.

I mean, one of my favorite songs is getting closer from a Wings later album, Back to the Egg. And he talks about my salamander and got to beware of snipers in the middle of a song that's a happy song about driving. What about I am the walrus, though? I'm the walrus, though. I mean, see, I'm the walrus is John's fantastic. Well, that's one of those songs that shouldn't exist and does exist.

and I still would say it's not even the 20-25 hasn't caught up to it. Right. Good point. And you'd think the lyrics are gibberish, but the whole is greater than some of the parts. Yellow Man and Custer dripping from a dead dog's eye. It's like, I don't need to know, try to figure that out. I'm just feeling. That man spoke for my generation with that line.

I think who can. But I think that owes more to the beats, don't you think, the beat poets? Yes. But I'll tell you the truth is John. The truth is John. Non-sequiters and yeah. Yeah. I think,

yeah, I think B poetry helped enable that idea of words being less literal. But John actually says he wrote that song because some egghead critic had written about how smart and how there's several layers working. And he says, now who knows if it's Liverpool just teasing,

but he said that he wrote that song, and the Walrus as a kind of a dare to see anyone would take it seriously. Well, one thing. He was kind of aware that he was pushing. When you, when you think about the Beatles, this is a more macro question, but it's sort like you got the first part, you know, like, I'm a walrus. You're like, okay, and sometimes I listen and I go, okay, I know where he's going.

How did he come over sitting in an English guy? He goes all the way. And as good as the main, I don't know words, what the main part is, that is also. Yeah, yeah. And it's a little bit like she's leaving home again. And I assume that Lennon wrote the melody when he does the refrain, we gave a best of a or influenced it, right? Yeah. It's hard.

You know, I don't know, because they did actually help each other a lot. Like, because you know, the famous story about Hey, Jude is he. Paul wrote that song, for instance, for, yeah, that shoulder line. He wrote it for Julian Lennon. It was called Hey, Jules. And he says, I'm changing the movement you need is on your shoulder. And John said, you bloody won't. Your bloody won't change it, you know.

And so they were helping each other that way. So I think maybe John on I'm the Walrus might have been thinking, almost predicting what Paul would do. Because he goes like, I am me and you are me. And it's like, don't, don't, don't. But then all of a sudden, sitting in English guard. And it's like, Paul would put the, how do I say this, Tweed? It's not Tui in a bad way, but it's what we love about McCartney, about Martha Midear, is that it's a little more dainty, you know, with the other parts are almost heavy metal. Like, you know. Oh, totally. I just wonder about that.

Yeah, well, that's why. I wonder if they were finishing each other's thoughts at that point. Well, let's talk about across the universe, though. I'm able to talk about that for all day, if you like that. That's my favorite in Paul and Dana. You guys may know better than me, but that's John, right? That's all John. Yeah, that's John 100%.

And I believe, and I don't know the timing of it, but didn't he kind of play it for the other three in the, let it be documentary at one point and they're all sitting there listening so I wonder if he sort of went off and finished it himself but I believe that's all John and it's John's one of his

favorite lyrics. The thing too where he hangs he hangs on, what do they call it like with a pedal bass where you play the same you hang on the same note? He tends to do that Paul goes up and down John hangs on one note, right? And things move around him. Well, what they do is he moves, he moves notes inside,

like so it's essentially the same chord all the way through, but then there's a melody like, like, Dear Prudence, where it goes like, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, but the bass is slightly moving, but it's the same. Dang, dang, dang, dear Prudence, and the guitar's playing that. Dang, dang, dang, dang, all the way through it. And it becomes hypnotic because you're kind of, I'm sure psychedelics were involved, but they were tripping on that sort of a Raga, you know, like create a repeating thing that makes you not remember where you are. And then it works,

it works more hypnotic. The lyrics of across the universe always got me, you know. Yeah. I feel like that's, oh yeah, no, I feel like that's what it would be if you actually went across the universe. I mean,

I know that sounds really corny, but good point. But like that's one of those ones where I, if I listen to that on headphones by myself, I do get a little, I feel the coldness of space. And it's like, You know what I mean?

Yeah, because just staying across the universe, with that melody, it's, it's, it's, it's profound, you know. And it's empty, too. It's a little, tell me if I'm, it's cold. It's not a warm production, right? It's a stark production, yeah. And then there's a Phil Spector version where they added the kids choir going like, ah, and I actually prefer, there's a version that was on one of the anthologies where it's just pretty much straight. And you remember on the demo tape, he does, he wanted to get this little rhythm, like, it's like a checka, chick, check it, tick underneath it. And so he started saying sugar plum fairy, sugar plum fairy. Right. And sugar plum fairy was kind of the engine for him of what the rhythm of the song was going to be. I mean, these guys at that time were like allowed to do this. They were allowed to just dream. And, you know, they went to Rishikes to study with the Maharishi and they ended up writing like 18 songs each, Paul and John. And I think George too. But.

And a lot of the songs that came out later, like, jealous guy by John Lennon, was actually started in Reschik Keshe when they were studying with the Maharishi, you know, and sexy Sadie, of course, is actually about it. I often, you know, just because of the Let It Be documentary and seeing Paul, when Paul, we interviewed Paul, whoops, and he goes, I thought I was a bit bossy, you know, with the others.

But I did point out to him, I said, you were so enthusiastically playing on everyone else's song. Like if it was John's song, oh, okay, let me help you, you know. And so, oh, yeah, yeah. I lost my train of top. Anyway, no, sexy Sadie. Sexy Sadie. But aren't we glad he was bossy if he was bossy?

It got him. I think he was a de facto producer, but you can help me, this Paul can help me with that, perhaps. But he could sing all the harmony. He had a greater range. He could play all the instruments. So he's kind of an arranger. That's how I was thinking of sexy Sadie, because Lenin maybe wrote the chords on the guitar. It's utterly Lenin.

But the opening piano riff, the slight echo on it, and it's so broad and wide and bizarre, and Paul's playing that. So I didn't know in that moment does Paul kind of in terms of cadence or I'm not sure how he intersects. Like obviously Dear Prudence, we know at least until maybe Ringo plays the solo at the end. That's a controversy currently. We know Paul is playing the bass. That's what I wanted to tell Paul. John Lennon loved you.

I don't care what, you guys were only 29. John Lennon loved you because you can't write a song and have a guy come and go, here's the bass line, which I think is brilliant in Dear Prudence and the drumming. And of course, you'll sing a harmony. So that's, you discuss amongst yourself. What do you say, coffee? Well, I just want to say this about Paul and John.

So I've been doing a lot of reading lately about the relationship between Paul and John. There's this great book called Paul and John, a love story and song by Ian Leslie. And it really, really explores the, to an almost homoerotic level about how intensely they cared about each other's opinion of each other. And they, even when they were fighting, they were fighting in a lover's quarrel kind of way. It was all quality control.

That's the whole thing. Everything, you know, it was. The bar was so high. About quality control. Like, is this going to be good enough to have the Beatles name on it? You know what I mean? Exactly. And so in the movie Let It Be, you can sort of see in the get back version.

You can really see that Paul, at this point, you know, Brian Epstein has passed away their manager. George Martin isn't involved in this session. So nobody's going to push the rock up the hill. Paul looks at John and says, have you written songs? Oh, yeah. He goes, I'm thinking about it. You know, I'm thinking about doing it. And Paul's like rubbing his eyes going, we're doing this show because that was the thing.

They're going to do that live show with all new material, which is such a crazy thing. thing to try. And, but he says, you know, I just want you to be, you know, have a voice in this. So he's so excited when they bring in, I dig a pony and I've got a feeling. You can see, and two of us is a Paul song, but you can see John is feeling like it's about Linda, but it might be about him and John. You know, there's, it's kind of about the, because they stare at each other when they're singing it. And you really get a feeling that what Paul, what we're watching that movie is Paul pushing everybody to the point where they're mad at him. Like George is like, stop pushing me. But he just wants the Beatles to have the Beatles again.

And then within a year or two, of course, they do Abbey Road. But within a year, he's up in his farm, John, Paul's up in his farm in Scotland, crying his eyes out and not getting out of bed. And Linda says, you've got to do something. And now he's the guy who needs to be pushed. And he writes, maybe I'm amazed. You know, like, it's like, it's a beautiful. To me, that's a movie right there. I almost hope nobody makes it because I, I like the movie in my head. Isn't there a part where, George and Paul were kind of fighting and because Paul was, you know, and go like do do do-d-lood-l-oo, you know, whatever. But then afterwards, I think George, they're kind of stopped rehearsing. And he's, George is asking Paul, what do you think, Paul, you know, I think it was about,

here comes the son or one of the Abbey Road, you know. So it's still in that moment. And I think I said this on your podcast, but the only because I love to discuss the Beatles, especially John and Paul's the relationship, there's no. no other band during that era that they ever could have been in where they were not sometimes not sure they were the quote best guy in the band right you know and there's no other band with the output of both of them they could have been they're absolutely the best guy in the band and so the miracle that they came together is almost divine or something yeah i mean think about while my guitar

gently weeps right you think of george harris later and you go something and you go yeah and you go There comes the son. If he was the hey, guys, wait up guy, you know what I mean? That's the third place, yeah. He would have mean, like, the guy in any other band in the universe. Miles. Yeah, and then the argument is, is the argument that I was going to say that they always make about George is that he obviously had it, but he may have worked three times as hard to get it because he knew he couldn't just put any old thing up.

Right. You know, he had to write, here comes the sun, he had to write something. And you mentioned earlier, Dana, that Paul, Paul's baseline on something, this is a guy who knows what he's playing on. Like, he knows this is a hot session. Yeah. So, you know, the part where he goes, something in the way she goes, and you hear Paul go, do do do do do do. And like, he's like, let me play. And he, but he wants to play to make the song.

Was he actually inventing what you call a counter melody then at that time? He's playing bass in a way that fits perfectly. But that's a very skillful thing to do and not get in the way of the main melody, but to reinvary. He had an intuitive sense for that stuff, but he also absorbed a lot of, you know, I know a lot about McCartney lately

because I've been reading all these books, but he plays piano. He grew up listening to it in his home. Yeah, but when he plays piano, as I've seen it, he really doesn't do much with his left hand, right? Isn't he kind of ironically for... Lady Madonna, he moves. Lady Madonna moves the left hand,

but there's three styles of McCartney. But it's usually like single bass and then... And then the melody. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, Lenin especially does that on piano. So Lenin will move the right-hand chords more than the left-hand, the bass chords. The bass is the left-hand. Yeah, yeah.

That's why it's so ironic that Paul would write so many, what would be the left-hand on a piano parts for the songs, isn't it mean? Yeah, no, that's a good way of looking at Well, the left hand is the base same, right? David, David, I feel like we're both, we're all ramrodding over here. Like, David, talk about the Beatles. Like, what do you have like favorite things? He's more of a wings guy.

I actually really like the Beatles, and I really like Paul McCartney wings. But I'm sort of listening like an audience member because you all know more. Well, I have questions and, you know, that's mostly what I don't feel. I don't, I just fancy myself a fancied. fan, of course, but over time, that's interesting. I think we're all fans. Yeah. So no, no, it's true.

Yeah, I could like, I just love the fact that there's so much, there's always a new take on the Beatles and there's always a new, new bit of information. You know, here's my question. So George Harrison is, he's singing the harmonies. First of all, blows my mind that they, John and Paul can sing harmonies and the, the guy from the neighborhood can play guitar pretty well. And they're doing this boy, which is a staggeringly gorgeous song, emotionally in every other way. And George is singing perfect harmony. Now, George is playing guitar parts for years on their songs and adding,

Don't Bother Me or these songs that are kind of rudimentary compared to where he's going. Is that sort of a master's class? Because he's learning in real time that John and Paul are going to this different place. that other major chord bands aren't doing. I mean, his leap forward. And it really started for me with while my guitar gently weeps. And then of course,

the two songs that are in the top ten of all-time Beatles songs for the Beatle fans, something, and here comes a son. So you think that he was in a master's class with these two geniuses, but he was a genius laying in weight, kind of how did George evolve into what he, Or was it always there?

Well, there's something that Mike might appreciate because you know how when we were kids, Mike, you know how Peter and I thought that we were the, we were the guys who were writing comedy and you would be like, wait up, wait up guys. You would go off and you'd go to the school. You'd go to the school yard. You'd go to the school yard or the park near our house. And we'd find out we'd hear kids laughing. They're laughing at Mike.

Like, what's that about? And I think if you, now, this is what we call an analogy. Because so George is George is not, you know, George is the hayweight up guy, as Mike was saying earlier. And he goes, but he also starts befriending Bob Dylan. Right. Like, so he's going out and he's listening to the new album by the band. And Clapton, yeah. And those guys are accepting him, you know, as a beetle.

And he's just absorbing. He's absorbing the Beatles, but he's also absorbing everyone around him. Yeah. And bringing it back in. And that's when he started bringing in the Indian music that he'd been listening to, because it's like, here's what I'm finding out while you guys aren't letting me talk. Yes.

And then, yeah. What's the song that the Chemical Brothers sampled? Tomorrow never knows. Tomorrow never knows. Who wrote that, Paul? Or Dana. That was John. I think it was primarily John.

Yeah, I think that that's his melody. I mean, it was a lot of tape loops. But there's a lot of tape loops and things that they, that was when they were all discovering Stockhausen. I always thought that was George. No. The C-Tar element was George. the mystical element.

Yeah, the drone. There's like a tambour or something. Well, if George is trying to play catch up, what's Ringo doing this? Ringo is just being a dumb, quiet genius. Ringo is getting paid. I'm just playing me drums. He's getting paid by the hour. He doesn't even get a piece of it.

Peace and love. But watch him and get back, though, man. I love that. I love that is some balloons. I love that. Bees and love. All right. Well, let's talk about Ringo for a second.

And like, was he any good or? Oh, my God. Was he any good? He's so great. He's so great. He's a drummer who listened to the songs. But hold up. Here's the other thing about, so in olden days of comedy writing teams,

there'd be somebody called a soup spoon, right? Which is, there was a Yiddish term, but it came out to be soup spoon. And they didn't cut in carrots. They didn't put in beef. But they just stirred the pot. Yeah. Made sure that all the people were controlling. rib-eating, you know what I mean?

Yeah. And I guess Sally in Dick Van Dyke's show was the soup spoon. Okay. Sally Roger. Sally, right? But I think he was the soup spoon. I think he was the guy that just kept it up, kept it light, and didn't let all the Liverpool attitudes have a fist fight.

He's from Liverpool, but I mean, I think Liverpool people know how to not have other Liverpool people fight. I don't know where it. I'll ask any of you this, where he stylistically, you know, if you look at, she loves you, and he goes to the floor, Tom. He's not always traditional. He can go on a 16th high hat and he'll do splashes. But a lot of times you think a normal drummer would do a splash and he'll just stay with the Tom and the snare.

Or even in something, he's kind of just hitting the kick drum. And there's times, anyway, adapted to the songs. and you can't imagine anyone else playing those songs. Best example that always comes to mind is Ticket to Ride. Any other drummer, if they hear, I think I'm going to be sad, they'd be like, but Ringo goes, boom, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, he mixes it up.

And come together, you know, come together is like, boon ticcud do do do do do do. Like he's not playing straight time, but he swings. He swings and he never plays over the words. I don't know if you pay attention to that next time you're listening. Whereas Keith Moon would play. What's the movie?

Would play. Keith Moon played as if he was the lead singer, right? Well, Keith Moon would play anything that moved. Like he was falling off a cliff and trying to survive. But he never understood. Why is the drummer in the back? He never understood that, right? Yeah, but luckily,

and luckily he was playing against the bass, but luckily he was playing with a bass player who overdrove the bass and a guitar player who just turned up past everybody. And Roger, who was like swinging the mic and screaming the mic and screaming and a beautiful scream. But yeah, so that was a band that was built on loud. Right. Built on loud.

But I want to stick with Ringo for a second. I just want to say that the thing I love about Ringo is you see it in Get Back. And when he's the song Get Back, right now, which is, we all know that's a beautiful moment where Paul's just playing the rhythm guitar on the bass. And he's saying, I've got something. And then Ringo's first attempt at it is just playing like, go, and got him, got a, and all of a sudden it's do, do, do. And then you recognize the military.

Terry shuffle that becomes like, oh, now it's get back. And that moment watching Ringo look out into space across the universe, if you will, and he's listening and he's listening. That's something you don't get from some of these, you know, like, you know, Fred Armisen has that character who does the drum technique. Yeah, of all different. How to dominate the jam. That's his catchphrases.

I will teach you how to dominate the jam. Now, anyone who knows, it's like, you don't want to be dominating people. You want to be listening and playing. That's the beautiful thing about Ringo. He was not dominating. He was helping. And he laid back when he needed to lay back. A day in the life is almost hardly any drums in the day in the life except,

do-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-l. Like, it's like, you got it. There's a bag of marbles being dropped on the kit. That's what, was it you? Yeah. It wasn't me. No, some people describe it as falling down the stairs. Chippa-de-been.

Is that I read the news today, oh boy? And he goes, to-do-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-t. Yeah. That's the coolest. Yeah, yeah, exactly. A little, it's a little tiny one. It's almost to say, I'm Ringo. I'm still here, you know. It's so cool. Loose Toms are underrated.

You know, Ringo didn't always feel a need to go, you know, and he could. Oh, no. You heard the, it was always in the, with the song. You're a drummer Dana, right? A little bit. Pat Boone, Debbie Boone, right? You've heard that, right? That's a beat.

Cana Tuna Debbie Boone. Canat tuna, canna Tuna. Cana Tuna. White, black, white, white, white, bat, boom, babboon. And then Stuart Copeland has one for Sting, but I can't say it on most television shows. It must be X-rated. This is a podcast. Yeah, he wrote on his tombs.

He wrote, I can say this. I mean, I'm sure there's no censorship here, but it was F-off UC on his four tombs. So when he was mad at Sting, he'd hear like, boom-to-boom. I don't know. Stuart will verify that. They were at some event in Malibu. didn't go to it. I think Kevin Eden told me that it was Ringo and Stuart Copeland

together. Hang on. I'm talking. And I just thought two of the best. Yeah, because if you listen to synchronicity two, I guess, or something, it's just a, it's brilliant. I mean, those albums, the police is just bright and shiny and of course, sting.

Roxanne is still so this is one of the things that we were talking before. I don't have the musicologist thing. that you guys have more of. But I love a good vibe. You know what I mean? And the thing about the Beatles is,

so no matter what I've done or will ever do in my life, I aspire to the pure excitement that is listening to the Beatles. And I think there's other things, too, that I've heard that give me pure excitement. Like London calling gives me pure excited. Yeah, I love it.

A boy about town by the jam. Jimmy Hendricks, you know, on what's that? But there's one Jimmy Hendrix that, oh, hey, Hey Joe, right? Hey, yeah, that's what it's called, right? Because I often get the titles wrong. Yeah. Anyways, that song, just the shuffle of,

Dan, dun, do, do, do, do, do. Dund do. Pada, but da-da-d-d-d-d-dun-bun-bun-bun-bun-bun. just like pure excitement yeah yeah I love it's I love that well how about on purple haze purple haze when there's that vibra slap

so it goes down down down dong no one ever made the guitar sound like that I guess he had really heavy hands and he played upside down but how we got that sound big teeth and big teeth yeah But it's also those chords that, those crazy chords that go up and down. Rhythm guitar player, too. Yeah.

But, you know, we came up. Pure excitement. That's what I'm talking about. There are things that are just pure excitement. And Paul used to have a term called, Paul used to call it called the pop shivers. You know, where you get like the. Yeah, yeah, you get a tingle. It's a tingle pop shiver. Ooh.

You get a tingle. When a chord changes, when a chord changes from one to another. Yeah. And you're like, whoa. We had one of the ones that my wife and I had. We were just why went to a movie, Secret Policeman's Other Ball. We weren't aware of Sting. We just saw a guy come

out, really cool looking, the dyed blonde hair, and he's just with his guitar, and he sings and plays Roxanne, and we both went, holy shit. Yeah. Who the fuck is that? Yeah. So yeah, Sting was quite a, in the

clash. I always think of the clash or I don't know who else, the Ramones, because you at your formative years was sort of the beginning of punk, and I guess the clash was your favorite band when you were like 15. There's still, I mean, the Beatles are my favorite because they're whatever,

but because they have too much. Then it's the clash. You get realistic. Because there's just something that's, there's another thing with the clash is, uh, they're cool. Do you know I mean?

Like just, well, London calling, whenever that comes on, I'm on an XM radio and that comes on. I never switch it. So that vibe of that is heavy. London call.

And then it's a, It's an army. I don't know what the lyrics are about, but it's not just a song. It's a movement. Yeah, and it's perfect for that time. But that's the way, Joe Strummer, like,

London calling. It's like it's in, it's like, it's not casual. Yeah, it's like a cry for, that ring of the transient thing. The eyes age is coming. The sun's moon. So anyway, we, we unfortunately,

we could do this for two days straight, but we kind of have to, wrap it up any last words paul myers let's let's let's let's take some time on we would love to do this as a regular thing because I think people will love it and

I love it and I think that we could fill many more hours more bands to delve into also and lead zeppelin let's that's true too lead zepple we can talk about wings specifically yeah

that's a whole other conversation the A, just certain solo songs are brilliant and of course, you know, we could break down just the song, people say, I'm crazy, doing what I'm doing, that's just those lyrics of that song. It's just like, can I, can I say that one stupid, like almost a plug for my book again? John Candy, which Beatle did John Candy work with?

George. No? Yes. I just, yes. Was it having his films? There's a video for those. The Wilbury Twist. There's a song by the Wilburys. Traveling Wilburys called The Wilbury Twist.

And John Candy, I think he was filming Brewster's millions at the time. And they had them come by the studio and just do a little twist. Okay, people curious. Go on Amazon under books. Paul Myers, John Candy, a life and comedy. Download it and enjoy it. And we'll do this again. It was so much fun.

All right. Listen, if you're enjoying the fly on the wall, of course, hopefully you are. Click follow. We don't want to be desperate, but obviously smash that goddamn button on your favorite podcast app. Smash it. Smash. Leave a review, a good one. Leave a five-star rating, nothing else.

Whoops. And maybe even share an episode with a friend. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe, Dana. What do you think? I'm going to tell you this right now. Hear me now. Fly on the Wall, believe it or not, is presented by Odyssey. and executive produced by Hold For It, Dana Carvey and David Spade, or David Spade and Dana Carvey.

We don't write this stuff. Heather Santoro, Greg Holtzman, and Leah Reese Dennis. The show is edited by Evan Cox with production support from Phil Sweet Tech. Talent Production and Booking by Sophia Lippor.