Focused - 178: Mike's Big Adventure

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

Mike is finally a Free Agent. In this episode, he & David talk through the process and share some tips for those considering making revolutionary change.

Welcome to Focus, a productivity podcast about more than just cranking widgets. I'm David Sparks and joined by my co-host, Mr. Mike Schmitz, or should I say the independent Mike Schmitz. Hey, Mike. Hey, how's it going? Good. This episode, Mr. Schmitz, is all about you. As the title implies, Mike is on the beginning of a big adventure. Let's just get right to it,

Mike. What's going on in your life? Yeah, well, I am officially embracing the free agent role. I have put in my notice as we record this at the day job, by the time this goes live, I will be a full-time independent creator. And there may be a couple other things that I'll pick up here and there. I've got a couple other ideas that we talked about actually at the retreat. We'll share some more details on that later. But that's the primary goal is going all in with the creative stuff. And let's see if we can't make this work. Yeah.

So for folks who don't, I think a lot of people probably assume that you've been independent for some time because of all the stuff you make. But Mike has had a day job now for some time. I mean, you had the family company. You worked with Asian Efficiency for several years. You helped over at the Suite Setup. Most recently, you've had the job as an integrator for a local company where you go to

work and help out with that. But for, I don't know, a while now, you've been thinking about maybe going out and striking it on your own. And for every person, that is a different journey. I mean, this podcast started life as the free agents where Jason Snell and I talked about that. But Mike has made his own leap as the show goes public. Yeah. You know, I remember when we first started talking about me taking Jason's place on free agents and I talked to you and I said, I'm really not a free agent. I do some creative stuff on the side, but I have a full-time job. And you basically told me, well, you've got the same mindsets anyways. And I realized as I was reflecting on this, that that has been good enough for me for

a very long time, just to put my toes in and dabble in this world. But I am very excited about the prospect of being able to go all in and give some of my creative projects my full attention. I really do believe that when I do that, the quality is going to go up. I mentioned probably multiple times on this show that Derek Siver's essay,

that really kind of resonated with me when I read it about how to do what you love and make good money and basically do your art for the sake of the art and have a day job on the side. But slowly over the last several months and really probably years, if I'm honest, I noticed that my thinking on that has kind of been, been changing. And, uh, that's, that is a very viable, uh, very viable scenario. It's a good path for, um, a lot of people, but I have slowly, slowly been inching my way towards, uh, towards this, uh, I think for a, for a long time. And this was, was sort of inevitable. Um, even though it feels kind of, kind of sudden for me as we record this still. Yeah, I think that it would be, I think it would be honestly the best way to go about doing this

if you were doing it intentionally. I hear from people all the time who've got some sort of, you know, lifestyle change or career change they're contemplating. And my advice is always don't just give up the thing that's paying the mortgage and jump full into the other thing. You've got to start by doing it. You've got to do it on the side. You've got to have the side hustle to begin with. There's several things you can learn in that process.

One of them is that nobody wants it, and you won't make any money at it, and it won't be enough to keep you, you know, in a house, shoes and eating. Another thing you might learn is that you don't like it. I mean, I used, I love woodworking. You know, I do a bunch of it for years. I used to have this pipe dream of, oh, I'm just going to become a cabinet maker someday and not a lawyer. And a long time ago, a friend asked me to build him an entertainment

center. And I quickly learned that woodworking to make things to give away or for the house is really fun and making it because somebody else has demands is not fun at all. And I would hate doing that for a living, but you've got to go out and try this stuff before you make a leap. So I feel like Mike, you did it the right way. So I had tried this one other time when my time with Asian Deficiency had ended. That was a little bit of a sudden thing for me, and I didn't really have it all figured out. And I kind of went all in on one specific project and just worked really, really hard on building the faith-based productivity course. But I look at the way I did that now and I've noticed all the mistakes that I made. I didn't validate anything. I didn't get any sort of feedback. It was just, this is the thing I'm

going to make. And I threw it out into the world and kind of had this belief that, well, because I made it and because I cared a lot about it because it existed. People would buy it. And obviously, just even saying that sounds ridiculous, right? So I did that for several months, didn't have the launch that I had hoped for, and didn't have any sort of support around me. So when that kind of flopped, I had to go find something else and unfortunately got connected with sean blanc and the the sweet setup team and and that was a great experience i learned a lot about being a consistent creator while i was there and just releasing quality stuff but this time around i have the support of you and several other people in our mastermind group who kind of have, I blame

you guys kind of for, for, uh, encourage me, encouraging me to, to go this way. Not that you all told me like, Hey, you need to quit your job. But we talk about this, this creative stuff all the time, every single week. And I, I hear about the things that you're doing and I see that the things that you guys are producing. And I realized over time that that's really who I want to be. That's the type of life that I want to live. I want to have that freedom to make what I want. And then I've also learned a lot about making quality stuff and making several different things. And you make all these tiny little bets, essentially. You create this product and you throw it out there and it's not the end product.

It's just the first version. And you take the feedback from people and you make it better and you continue to refine that. And eventually, you know, you make stuff that people want and you can build a living and a business that way. So I feel much more prepared, much less like I'm flying by the seat of my pants, even though I don't have it all figured out. And I'm a high fact finder and logical thinker. And I want to know what all the next steps are. I'm realizing that I am smart enough to figure this out and I don't need to have

it all figured out. I just need to know what the next step is. Yeah. It's hard when you're, you've got a friend that's talking about quitting their job and what advice do they want, right? I mean, the safest thing is just to tell them, oh, keep your job. You know, you need to take care of your family and it's okay. But I also am very conscious of you want the work you do to be of relevance and something that you feel like you can kind of make your dent in the universe. And sometimes you do have to take risks. Yeah, you have to take risks. And I guess the fear thing is the thing that has held me back for a long time. I mentioned I tried it once, it didn't really work. And I remember the feeling as I was watching the credit card debt

rack up at that point in my life. And I was like, I never want to be here again. And I realized through a lot of self-reflection that that has kind of kept me in certain situations and making certain decisions, really just a certain mindset for a very long time. And ultimately, it came to the point where I was not okay with that. I didn't want to get to not just the end of my life and feel like I didn't give it my best shot, but my kids are growing up and my oldest is almost 16. He's getting to the point where he's doing cost of living exercises for school and thinking about what he's going to do once he graduates. And I want him to have the confidence to go and do whatever is in his heart to do and to leave a dent in the universe. And I realized that when it comes to my kids, more is caught than

taught. They need to see it, not just hear it. And so as I was kind of talking to him about these things, it was like I was counseling myself at the same time. It's like, really, you should be listening to yourself and you should be giving this a shot. Well, if it makes you feel any better, I think that you're doing much better at this at your age than I was. I was at a law firm for 22 years before I finally got the guts to leave. So it's not easy. And we all bring our own baggage to these types of decisions. And we all bring our own willingness to have some risk. But I would say that the risk element is never really understood properly, I think. My wife works for one of the biggest companies in the world.

And when COVID started, she just got laid off. She had no idea who made the decision or why, but out the door she went. And my little company is very small, but I actually have enough control to know how the finances are going or if we're in trouble, I can do something about it. So I do think the risk element is a little bit overstated. The other bit of risk when you're

making a decision like this is by trying something like this, you are not expunging all the skills and talents you already have from your brain forever, which means that if it doesn't work, you can always go get a job. It's not like you could never go back. I feel like that's easy for people to forget. Yeah, that was an essential point for me in this whole thing was recognizing the worst case scenario was that I need to go get another job. The risk thing, it's really the risk of the uncertainty of things. The unknown that I recognized was really the thing that was causing me to be afraid. causing me to be afraid. And there's this fear-setting exercise that I think I first heard about from Tim Ferriss. But I was reading when we got together The Pathless Path by Paul Millard, and he brought it up there again. And essentially what that is, is you name the thing that you're most scared of.

And until you sit down and you actually stare it in the face, there's all this ambiguity around it. And that makes you nervous about it. You tend to just not engage with that thing. The fear setting is, okay, let's let our mind go there. Let's imagine the worst case scenario with this decision that you're considering making. And once you identify that worst case scenario, then you can figure out ways to mitigate against it. And what I realized was that the worst

case scenario was I try to go independent. I try to make this stuff and no one wants to buy it again. Okay, well, at least now I tried it. And yes, I could go get another job. I am actually very grateful for the time that I spent at this last position as the integrator. I learned a ton about business while I was there. A lot about financial literacy and how agencies work and scoreboards and all that kind of stuff, working with a team and gaining alignment through processes, core values, creating culture, all that kind of stuff. And I really do enjoy that kind of stuff. And that's the kind of thing that I know is going to stick with me as I build my company. But even if that, again, worst case scenario doesn't work, those are skills that a lot of creative entrepreneurs or small business owners could use some help in shaping that stuff.

And what I learned from the experience is that I'm actually really good at it. It took me a while to get there to believe that I had the skills to do it because I hadn't done it before and I didn't have the track record of success. done it before and I didn't have the track record of success. But I can look at the results now and feel proud about the work that I did there. And yeah, those skills are going to go with me. And really, it's those plus all the other skills from all the other unique experiences I've had, you know, working full time with the suite setup and driving that website and creating all the videos and all that kind of stuff and Asian Efficiency launching that podcast and driving that website and creating all the videos and all that kind of stuff and Asian Efficiency launching that podcast and all that kind of stuff. Those are the experience I had with the family business and the basis of emotional intelligence

and the hiring process and all that kind of stuff. All those things kind of come together. And in the business world, anyways, I see how they all kind of overlap. And in terms of leading teams, the faith-based productivity stuff is exciting to me because I've always wanted to help people kind of find their why and have that purpose that drives everything that they do because I know that that's really the thing that provides the intentionality and helps people be the most effective. But all the skills that I've developed along the way allow me what I need to help teams do that too. So going back to the fear setting thing, I realized that, okay, so I do this creative stuff and it doesn't work out and I have to go find another job. I'm still going to find something that is going to allow me to combine all of these skills and abilities in a way that is going to be fulfilling for me.

It's going to help organizations and companies go to another level and have a bigger impact. And there's always going to be a need for that kind of thing. So going through fear setting was actually very freeing for me. I do think that that's an exercise everybody should do. When I first started getting meditation training, two of the areas of focus is worst case scenarios and death. And I feel like I talk about death too much. I got an email from somebody complaining about it. But I just feel like if you're comfortable with it and if you're aware of it it actually improves your life and that's something a lot of people don't get and so fear setting is as part of a meditation practice where you go through and you just pick something apart whatever your fear is you know

take it break it down to its bare you know minimum elements and figure out what causes it and what's the result of it. And then it really disarms the fear itself. You just don't worry about it as much. It's tough though. I think it's easy to want to avoid topics like that because it's much easier to not think about them. But when you don't think about them, they're like this, it's like the shark in Jaws that was always under the water. You never knew really how dangerous the shark was. You got to actually get next to the shark to figure it out. That is scary.

A lot of people, myself included, prefer the discomfort of what they know rather than the uncertainty of what they don't know. And I guess it's time to jump in the water. This episode of the Focus Podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one platform for building your brand and growing your online business. As you're building something for the world, you do not want to do it on somebody else's platform.

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first purchase and show your support for the show. Our thanks to Squarespace for their support of the Focus podcast and all of RelayFM. Mike, let's get a little more personal. How did this decision come to be? Well, I think it was a long time in the making, as I said in the previous section. However, there have been a couple of key moments, I think, that have gotten me to finally get to the point where I'm willing to make that leap. So the first one was that last winter, I actually experienced a mild panic attack. I remember talking to Chris Bailey about that. When he experienced that, he shares that story in his new book about calming your mind. And I remember reading that and thinking, your mind. And I remember reading that and thinking that sounds awful. And then taking the burnout inventory that he had recommended in that book, the Maslach Burnout Inventory for

people who are interested in it. But that basically broke down a couple of different things. One, it talks about your environment and how much control or agency you have over your work. And then the third one, the third scale is really like the how well equipped you are to handle the stress of the environment. So I want to go on the record right now by admitting that I am my own worst enemy when it comes to a lot of this stuff. However, it was the first time I've been working in an agency world. And there's a lot of meetings, a lot of stuff that comes at you day to day. And I realized when I took the Maslach Burnout Inventory for myself that I was in a pretty stressful situation. And I was well-equipped to handle it. I was doing all the right things, but you can only

put yourself in a situation like that for so long before it finally gets to you. And again, this is not necessarily saying it's the environment's fault, but my perspective, my attitude, me being in that environment was not a good mix. And then specifically with my role as an integrator, because the metrics for the integrator are all leg measures. Really, the metric for an integrator is how profitable is the company. Well, you can't just make a single decision and see the results from that decision. So I was feeling pressure for results that really were kind of outside my control. And everyone at the job was telling me, you know, you're doing a good job. Don't worry about that. It'll get there eventually. But I had trouble disconnecting

from it. And so I had a mild panic attack. And when I went through that, obviously I had to ask myself, well, why did this happen? This can't keep happening, so something's got to give. So lots of stress, results outside my control, but feeling responsible for them anyway. I understood what was going on there, but I had trouble compartmentalizing it. And then from there, I kind of realized that in this role, I really wasn't in control of my own success. I had to work with a team, which was honestly, that's kind of what I wanted. work with a team, which was honestly, that's kind of what I wanted. But I also realized that the alignment that I was craving with the team really wasn't coming together the way that I had hoped it would. Specifically, the visionary and I felt like we were kind of butting heads a lot,

and we were friends going into this. And I didn't like the toll that working together was having on the relationship. Just felt like we were kind of going in diverging paths. And there were lots of like pop-up meetings as we had to figure things out. And there was constant firefighting with issues that were going on in the business. Again, this is like normal stuff in the agency world, but I realized that that kind of just broke me down. So I had this panic attack and I'm trying to figure out, well, what can I actually do about this? I find myself kind of losing motivation as I go. And it was kind of around that time that Joe and I read this book, Master Your Motivation for Bookworm. It was a recommendation by somebody

in the Bookworm Club, and I've been looking for a book on this topic. This one looked pretty good, so I picked it up and read it. It is actually pretty good, but one of the things that Susan Fowler, the author, talked about in there is that there are three different components to motivation. Motivation is kind of an interesting topic to me because you can have... A lot of the discussion is around willpower in the productivity space. Steve Jobs wore the same thing every single day, so he conserved his willpower for the decisions that really mattered. We've all heard those stories, right? But when it comes to certain things, it doesn't really matter if you have any willpower left.

You also hear stories about these tiny little moms who their kids caught under a truck and they're able to lift it up and free the kid. Well, why is that? Because of motivation, right? And you don't want to live in that constant state of heightened fight or flight, right? But that concept of motivation being available to you, regardless of willpower, that was kind of interesting to me. So I realized that these three different components of motivation that Susan Fowler talked about, one of them was choice. And that one just kind of, when I read the book,

smacked me right in the eyes. And I realized that I am in this position. And it wasn't just this position. It was actually this mindset that had been drilled into me for the last couple of years. It's like, well, you just have to do the responsible thing. You need the steady paycheck because you have a wife and five kids at home and you got to put bread on the table. And that is absolutely true. But this whole discussion about choice, essentially another way to put it is like golden handcuffs, right? But she talked about how even if you don't really have the ability to change your situation, you can still embrace this element of choice. It's really just your perspective and whether you feel empowered that you have options available to you. And something about that when I read it is just like, huh, I haven't really considered any of the other options. And I think it's time to do that.

And it's interesting because the source of the block was because you tried once and the one thing you made didn't do as well as you wanted, right? I mean, that was the thing that was blocking all of this. Yes, exactly. It was a single event, a single experience that I had just kind of said, okay, well, tried that, didn't work. And I realized over time that that was just one attempt. And I know that success is not a single decision. I know that rationally. And if you were to talk to me several months ago, several years ago, I would have told you that. But I kind of just changed my entire approach to my life based off of that one experience. And I realized that there were other options that were available to me. And the thing that was keeping me from considering them was fear,

and that's where the fear setting comes in. In fact, I remember after reading that book, talking to my wife as I just started to explore the possibility of what would it look like if I was to try to go full-time as a creator. And I didn't tell Rachel this, but I basically did the fear-setting exercise. We were at home one night and I was like, what's the worst thing that could happen? And she's like, yeah, that's the right attitude. I'm like, no, really, what is the worst thing that could happen? And we talked through it. And once we did that, it was like, okay, well, that doesn't seem so bad. And that was kind of the beginning of the end. Once we had that talk, I kind of knew it was a matter of time. I had no idea what the exact next steps were in order to move forward. Um, I remember attending the, the guild meeting one week and, uh, turned into an

intervention for me. Right. And basically the takeaway from that was you, you got to give it a shot and, uh, decided to, to do that, um, made it official at the day job. And I, um, there's a lot of lessons I learned there too, or a lot of things. I wouldn't necessarily say that I did it wrong, but it's definitely more complicated than I had envisioned it would be. I think a lot of people might have this idea of you walk in with the brass band, you know, and you put in your notice and you just walk out like there's these big grandiose, you know, putting things.

That's not at all what I did. I started by having a conversation with the visionary who, like I said, has been a friend of mine for a long time. So, okay, so I made this decision. It's really something that I got to give it a shot. It's the kind of thing that if I don't, I know when I get to my deathbed, I'm going to regret this. And just feels like now's the time just based on everything that I've learned, everything that I've gone through, the kind of like the stars are aligning for me to make this successful this time around. And he obviously respected that. And I wanted to give him space and time to figure out, you know, what's the narrative going to be for the rest of the team and how long do you

want me to stick around and help wrap things up. So it ended up being a conversation with him. And then a couple of days later, a conversation with the other members of the leadership team. And then finally, another conversation with the rest of the team. So I had to have the conversation, have the talk three separate times. And that was pretty stressful, especially by the third one. That was the one that I didn't think would really hit me at all. Because most of the team I didn't work with on a day-to-day basis. Because of my role, I was primarily working with the members of the leadership team. But it was the third one where when I had to tell everybody, that's the one that kind of caused me to be the most emotional. I really have no idea why. Yeah, it happens. I mean, because of the group dynamic, I think. But

when I gave up my law practice, I had to have the conversation like a hundred times because I had to tell every client I was not going to be their lawyer anymore. And it was like quitting a hundred times. It was draining. It took me three months to get it all done. Yeah, that sounds brutal. I didn't have to do that. Yeah, but I think that's part of the step. And honestly, it helps you kind of sort out in your mind why you're doing it as well. Because as you explain it, you're in your own internal narrative builds.

One of the things you said that I think is really key for this, for people thinking about this is that you got Rachel's buy-in early that you, you know, you talked to her about it and had an open and frank conversation where this can really go wrong is when your partner is in the dark or against it. And that can make it, you know, it really is the difference between going uphill and downhill. Yeah. And one of the things that was surprising to me about that was I kind of always anticipated that she wanted obviously stability and security because I am the primary breadwinner.

She stays home and homeschools all five of our kids. So she probably works harder than I do, but I'm the one who makes the money, right? So I kind of anticipated that that would be more important to her than it was. that would be more important to her than it was. By the time we actually got down to it, she was very supportive of me giving it a shot. And I realized that I was the one who, the single person between all the people who were really, really the voices that I consider to be important speaking into my life. The limiting factor, the one person who didn't really believe that I could do it was me. When I talked to Rachel, she's like, yeah, absolutely.

I 100% support you doing this. You've got what it takes to do it. So yeah, absolutely make this decision. And that was kind of eyeopening to me, I guess. Like I, it's one thing to hear it from, uh, other people like the, the people in our mastermind group, because you guys have all kind of done this. You have a certain perspective, right? You, you look at me one way because of the relationship that we have, but my wife knows everything about me and this has always been like one small part of my life. So it felt like you guys were able to see that part because that's what I talked about when we get together, but Rachel maybe

hasn't been able to see that as much. But even though that was just one small piece of my existence, my identity with her. That's one of the things that she noticed. And so when she called it out, it gave me the confidence really that maybe I do have more ability here than I have previously thought. And that's always been a thing with me is confidence. And that's a big takeaway, I guess, from this whole experience. I know you and Ernie and a couple other people have said specific things to me at specific times that have been exactly what I needed to hear in order to make decisions and try things. And I'm very grateful for that. And I want to be able to do that for other people. I'm hoping to be able to pay that forward. I think about how

many other Mike Schmitzes there are out there who just need somebody to believe in them and say, you know, you have what it takes. You need to give it a shot. I do think that when you're sharing knowledge like this with other people, it can be kind of a minefield. Like when you say, I'm going to go indie, that is, for a lot of people, that is almost like saying I've decided to join the Foreign Legion or something. They just, they don't, it's so shocking to them that they don't know how to handle it.

And I think one of the big takeaways is you cannot take it personally when people don't approve. You have to make a big boy or a big girl decision about whether it makes sense for you. You definitely have to test the waters and have something working before you just walk out the door. You can't be irresponsible about it. But if you're doing it right, you have to have faith in yourself. And if other people don't believe in you, that's okay. Because it's not about them. It's about you. Yeah. And there are some very well-meaning people in my life who I have allowed to speak louder than really is warranted. One of them, I realize, is my dad. He's a successful business person. He started his own business. And I think I got a lot of my entrepreneurial mindset from him. where he was constantly traveling in order to get sales, and he was working really, really hard.

And if you were to talk to him about how he's been successful, he would tell you that he's caught a few lucky breaks, right? He's in the right spot at the right time a couple different times in his life. And I realized that I had adopted that mindset myself. And I was like, well, I don't want to work that hard for that long in hopes of catching a lucky break. And even recently, when I saw them, I just ran my race up in Door County. So I hung out with them for a couple of days and had a lot of conversation about like, well, okay, so you're going to give this a shot, but you got to find something soon, right? And maybe we should talk about some of these projects that you could do for the family

business. And there are reasons that I disconnected from the family business. That is an option. I could go back there, but I don't think it's the right thing. I don't think it's a healthy thing necessarily, but that's kind of where he went because in his mind, he's thinking you have this responsibility to your wife and kids and he's right. You know, these are our facts, but they aren't necessarily truth in that that would be the best thing for me and my family. So I'm there with my parents and I'm, I'm hearing them and I'm trying my best to be respectful and let the water just flow off the duck's back. But the truth is, if you surround yourself with voices like that consistently, that will eventually change your mindset.

And I realize right now that I have to be very protective of the voices that I allow to speak into my life. Facts don't equal truth. That is a version of truth. But the real truth is I believe that I'm able to make some pretty great stuff. And there are people who want what I have. And I need to put it out there. I put it out there in a way, obviously, different than last time, where I'm not just making the thing and throwing it out into the world and hoping that people stumble upon it. I've learned a lot about marketing. I've learned a lot about messaging.

I've learned a lot about running an effective business. So I can't let my existence and my life right now be confined by that temporary lid. And I realized that those people who sometimes care about you the most, they will reinforce those beliefs that, I thought I had licked that thing. I thought I was past that. But I found myself the day that that was going on, reconsidering everything. And I had to catch myself and be like, no, that's just one perspective. That's just one opinion. That's not the whole truth here. And so thank you.

I hear you. I appreciate your concern. But then I'm just going to go do the thing anyways. Yeah. Well, I mean, my dad died when I was young. But if I was alive and told him I've got a good job, I've been there decades, and they take good care of me, but I'm going to quit, he would have gone nuts because that just wasn't in his worldview. He grew up in the Depression. His whole idea was get a job and keep it and do a good job and make yourself valuable.

He gave me so much. He gave me work ethics. He gave me a moral compass. But the thing about making a leap, that was just not something he would do because there was a time in his life where he was legitimately worried if he was going to eat that day, you know? So that's just, you know, you've got to like take it from a place of love. And if somebody is giving you a hard time and not coming from a place of love, that's a good sign. You need to distance yourself from that person. But in your dad's case, from his side, hey, I spent my life building this business so my kids would be okay.

And I got this rambunctious Mike here who keeps trying to jump off the ship. So it's hard for him, I'm sure. But it's coming from a good place. But that's part of it you have to plan for. But this all gets back to my initial thought of you have to test the waters. You have to do stuff. You can't just jump into one of these indie businesses. I think another piece of it, which is kind of inherent in the conversation, is these are not the type of thing you're doing. kind of inherent in the conversation is these are not the type of thing you're doing you know you're unlikely to end up owning an island in the bahamas with this route you know and yeah

it's very much a lifestyle business i'm doing the same thing and i'm okay with that i mean at the end of the day i i don't really keep score with my money i want want enough to get by, but I'm not looking to, you know, to have such a big, you know, I'm just not looking to buy an island in the Bahamas. I guess that's easiest way to put it. But for people who are in a historical business, that's the whole idea of business. It's growth. You know, how do we grow it? How do we make it bigger? How do we increase it? You know, and when you are going out on your own, they recognize there's a limit on your growth and that also causes a pushback sometimes. Yeah, that is true. But I think, I mean, my dad owns his own business, but he's not buying an island in the Bahamas either. I think most small businesses,

um, probably have the potential to, uh, are very similar to the lifestyle businesses that, that you described. Um, and so my dad is in his own way, a creative entrepreneur.

And, uh, I realized that that is, um, I realized that that is a path that is becoming more and more, I don't want to say mainstream, but more and more people are realizing that that is an option. I think that's a good thing, going back to The Pathless Path by Paul Millard. I think that there's never been a better time to make a go of that sort of thing. And so a lot of the mindsets that my dad specifically has around the small business stuff and the opportunities that are there, he has a hard time seeing that a lot of those same opportunities in terms of growth and the type of lifestyle that we can live are available as even a solopreneur. It's a different sort of thing.

And again, you're right. He's coming from a good place, but he has certain experiences which are anchoring him. We all do. We all got to recognize our bias. got to recognize our bias. And the thing that kind of pushed me over the edge is obviously I got to give it a shot. And give it a shot means something different to me now than it did the last time that I was here. And I've been thinking about why is that? And I feel like just the whole creator economy is different right now. There are a lot of people who are making a thing, and that can absolutely support you and your family. And I don't know, I don't want to tell people to make the same

decision that I made, but I want to encourage people to consider all of the options. And this is one of the options that I feel like it's a viable opportunity for a lot of people who maybe don't realize it. It's not just me because I do a couple of podcasts, including this one with you. I have a couple of relationships with some creator friends. You need to explore for yourself what are the doors that are available to you. And I will say that for me, once I made the decision, that's when I realized where the opportunities were. I didn't think I had many opportunities until I had resolved in my mind that this was something that I was going to do. And pretty much within 24 hours, I realized, oh, I could do this. I could do this. I could do this. And I had to make the decision, though. I hadn't actually even taken any of the steps towards that yet. I hadn't had any of the

conversations yet. But just the fact that I had made the decision, that allowed me to see things in a different way. This episode of Focus is brought to you by Indeed. When you're faced with what might be considered aggressive hiring goals, you don't have to be worried because you know you don't need a miracle. What you need is Indeed. Indeed is a hiring platform where you can attract, interview, and hire all in one place. So instead of spending hours on multiple job sites, searching for candidates with just the right skills, you can use Indeed's powerful hiring platform to help you do it all.

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well i've kind of just vaguely been talking about going full-time as a creator and so there's a couple things i think that go into that number one i'm very excited about the opportunity to invest more focused time and attention into the projects that i already have going i have no doubt Focus is going to get better, Bookworm's going to get better, stuff like that. But I also have one of the ideas that I mentioned that I didn't see until I made the decision was this thing with Obsidian University is what I'm calling it. And essentially, it's going to be a cohort. I've always wanted to do a cohort that was focused solely on Obsidian. I've built courses on it

before. I've done workshops on it before. But I am in the middle of doing the Life Theme cohort with my wife for the faith-based productivity stuff. And that actually has been going really, really well. And I'm realizing from doing that, I like having the regular touch points with people and being able to dive deeper on things and solve problems more completely. And I really have always kind of wanted to do that in some way, shape, or form with Obsidian. So I'm going to be spinning up a cohort-based Obsidian course. The URL I've got, but it doesn't exist as we record this. It will by the time this goes live. It's obsidianuniversity.com.

It's going to be probably a four-week cohort with a couple of sessions a week because I've got a whole bunch of stuff I want to teach in this. And it's going to start the week of June 12th. I'm going to the craft and commerce conference in Boise, the convert kit conference the week before that. So I'm going to hit the ground running the week after and people can go check out ObsidianUniversity.com if they want more details on that. But I'm really just loving the idea of these cohorts. I'm sure I'll spin up a couple more probably in the faith-based productivity realm. My wife and I have an idea for a core values one. But so far, this has been the thing that really I love. And I really like the ability to go deeper with this stuff. And again,

this is one of those things that I never really saw as an option until I made the decision. There are lots of things that I could be doing. I could be writing. I could pick up freelance writing jobs. I still write articles over at the Suite Setup and occasionally do a screencast module for Screencasts Online. But as I was thinking through the options, I could get a bunch more jobs like that. But the Life Theme stuff, you really don't know how it's going to turn out. When I opened up the Life Theme cohort, I was expecting 10 people to sign up. We got close to 40, which is awesome. And so that's the thing where I really want to invest in people and build relationships as we build something together.

Well, I can't wait to see what you make, man. And that URL will be active when the show goes live. We'll put a link in the show notes. You can go check it out. You're also looking at doing some consulting, right? Yes. So I mentioned the business stuff that I learned. And there was a moment at the retreat where Ernie and Chris and I were talking about how do I hire a good assistant and kind of just

went through the hiring process with the day job and just started sharing some of the things that I had learned. And Ernie stopped me mid-sentence. He's like, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm going to record this. And then just kind of went for a half an hour. And these were the kinds of things that I learned this in the hiring process. But I kind of thought, I don't know, in the business world, maybe this is common knowledge, right? But I realized from talking to Ernie and Chris that the information that I've learned through all those experiences, that can be really, really helpful for people. So I guess I'm kind of, I tend to discredit what I know, and I'm trying not to do that anymore. I'm putting together some of the core processes and some of the templates and things that I've used in the hiring process and identifying core values and creating

culture, communicating effectively with a team, getting alignment, creating scoreboards, getting everybody in your organization to rally around a common cause and pull in the same direction. I feel like that's really powerful. And if you're able to accomplish that, that's really when your organization or your business can start to make an impact. And I think that based on all the experiences I have, probably creative entrepreneurs are the people specifically who I might be able to help with that. So got another website I'm building for that. I'll share some links in the show notes if people are interested in that sort of thing. But I am interested in consulting with, like I said, creative entrepreneurs specifically because I feel

like those are the people who they were making something, they were successful with it. Maybe they hired a team, but they really haven't had a whole lot of training or direction in terms of getting that team to work effectively together. Maybe you just started making something and it kind of took off. And so you started accidentally building this business, but you never really learned how to do balance sheets or income statements. Sometimes that's the thing that is holding people back. Sometimes it's getting people to work together on specific projects using an agile framework like Scrum where you can ship things consistently and you're going through the retrospective to identify the roadblocks, stuff like that. But I really do enjoy helping organizations specifically

kind of align and make a bigger dent in the universe. I think it was Steve Jobs who said that if you really want to change the world, start a company. Well, I don't necessarily have to start the company. I like helping other companies. I like helping other people who have a specific cause and an impact that they want to make. How do they do that on a higher level? Well, I actually think you have a lot to add. It's just funny how all this stuff kind of adds up for you between your experience with these various websites and companies and all the books you've been reading for Bookworm. It's like you have this very unique foundation of knowledge. In fact, I'll say publicly, I've hired you to help me just audit my procedures for the Max Barkley stuff and see if

you can come up with a few ideas. I am sure I will get my money's worth out of you because you've got such a broad experience. I am looking forward to getting started on that project with you. Awesome. Yeah, it's going to be fun. I think, honestly, what you're saying is a good blueprint for people who are thinking about going out there is like, yeah, have some ideas for some products, have some ideas for some kind of foundational business income. You make things. You've got a couple different oars in the water here as you get started, and you can just kind of figure it out. I thought it'd be fun to spend a

little bit of time just sharing some advice for people thinking about this and some of our own experiences as we've gone through this. I'm going to start with some advice, and that is, if you make the decision to do this, you need to be present for it. And that sounds very hippie, but what I mean is, it's very easy to lose track of yourself as you're going through the process. I mean, you make a big decision like this with the best of intentions, and then between people talking to you and everything else, the world just starts buzzing and you lose track of what you're actually thinking about throughout the process that's a very easy way to get lost at the beginning yes i will echo that uh be present for the transition i guess a different way that I've tried to implement this with leaving my previous position is to, I like

the phrase, give more than I take. I want to kind of over-deliver in terms of getting everything prepped. I think the stereotypical picture people have when you're leaving one thing and going into another is you don't really want to be here anymore. And I've been doing my best to make sure that people don't feel that way and still being engaged in all of the meetings and not because I've seen people do this where it's like, I know you're thinking something, but you're not willing to say it because you've kind of already checked out. You know, I don't want to be that guy. Kind of related to that, though, I would add that when it comes to a transition, longer is not necessarily better. And I've seen several people in the time that I've been at this last position where they put in their notice and they're around for four weeks,

at this last position where they put in their notice and they're around for four weeks, five weeks as they wrap things up. And I feel like that's probably too long. There may be some situations where you do have to actually wrap a whole bunch of things up and it takes that long to do it. But I think it's healthier for everybody involved if you can keep it as short as possible. I mean, the standard is two weeks, right? From my position, I was kind of the second in command. So there were some things that I had to train people how to do. It wasn't just, oh, someone's going to do this task. It was no one had really done this before. And Mike kind of created this thing. So now I got to get somebody to the point where they can do that. But even with my role, it was three weeks is what we landed on. And I noticed, you know, we're in the third week as we record this. By the third week, everyone that is still there is ready to turn the page and figure things out on their own. I'm obviously ready to go all in with the new stuff. And I just feel like it's better for everyone if you can make the break as clean and as quickly as you can. Yeah. And if you're leaving employment,

give them their money's worth. I felt like when I finished my law firm job for the firm, I was working on a brief the last day. I felt like they're paying me, they should get their value. And don't shortchange them just because you've decided to move on. While you're there, do what you need to do. The other element of being present for the transition is i think it's a great time to do a lot of journaling or meditation or talking to your spouse or whatever thing you do to get yourself feedback about what you're going through um i think it's all easy to get lost in the weeds

during a transition and lose track of kind of like what what am I thinking about all this? Because this is a great chance for you to reset your life. And I mean that in almost every way. You get a clean slate on new habits. You get a new way to set your schedule. There's so much that changes. It's such a great opportunity. And it will be very easy to just go with defaults as you make that transition and not question them. And if you don't, you may be missing out on something that could help you be more successful. Yeah, I agree with that 100%. Another one I'll add is, so I was thinking through this, this is the kind of phrase that came up, burn the boats but not the bridges. So I was thinking through this, this is the kind of phrase that came up, burn the boats,

but not the bridges. So that's pretty specific for someone making revolutionary changes, how you put it in the notes. If you're changing jobs, I think the advice still applies. But the burn the boats part is the thing that I think we've even talked about it previously, where you're making a clean break and not leaving yourself a way back, right? But again, fear setting, worst case scenario, I could go get another job. It's not the kind of thing where I'm just going to go walk in and get my old job back, though. That's kind of what burn the boats means. But not the bridges, meaning protect the

relationships. I've had multiple people tell me during this transition, and I'm really grateful for this, that they really respected the way that I was going about it because I don't want to have the mindset that I'm leaving this thing, I'm not looking back, and I'm never going to talk to any of these people again. I want to continue to interact with people and treat them like they're friends and I'm going to see them tomorrow. I believe that how you leave one thing is how you enter another. And so the relationships are the real important thing. Chris Bailey, people are the most important, people are the reason for productivity. I'm not looking to get something from these people necessarily. I just think it's

really important that I continue to value them and treat them respectfully, even though we may not ever interact again. I do feel like that kind of pays itself forward and makes the transition into the new thing easier. Another tip I would give is that it will take longer than you think. And by it, I mean no matter what you're thinking you're about to do, it will take longer than you think. It's a lesson that I can give that I have not yet learned. not yet learned. Well, I think that that's the kind of thing that is very easy to excuse. You look at somebody else going through it and you'd be like, oh, well, obviously I didn't see this thing. But then you rationalize it and say, well, my situation is different because.

So I don't know. I think that's just kind of human nature, going back to project planning and how things always take longer than we think they're going to and it's always going to be more expensive. This is just kind of a different version of that, I think. The last piece of advice I would give is that something I said a little bit earlier, you know, I realized I didn't need to have everything figured out. I didn't have to have the whole plan, even though that's kind of naturally the way that I'm wired. I want to have all of the facts. The best phrase I can come up with is you need a compass, not a blueprint. You need to understand what the right decision is to be made and the direction that you are supposed to go, but you don't need to have

all of the details figured out yet. And one of the things I've learned is that once you make the decision, those decisions, those translate into energy. And once you have that energy moving in the right direction, you have some momentum there, that's when you realize the options.

So for all the high fact finders like me, the people who overthink things, fight the tendency to do that, make the decision, and the minute that finders like me, the people who overthink things, fight the tendency to do that, make the decision. And the minute that you make the decision, that's when you'll start to see the other options that are available. And ultimately, even the path forward, it's not a paralysis of all of these choices. It's really these are the things that I could do. And oh, that's the one that that is the next step for me. I know exactly what that looks like, but I had no idea before I made the first decision, took the first step.

Where did you get the saying, you need a compass, not a blueprint? Did you just come up with that? I think so. It's from my notes from a PKM talk that I gave at MaxDoc last year. But as far as I know, that's a Mike Schmitz original. I feel like that's the book, man. Because that doesn't just apply to transition. That applies to life in general. Yeah, exactly. This episode of the Focus Podcast is brought to you by Nom Nom.

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because I knew you were making this move and I started writing a few questions down. I wanted to hit you with them without giving you a chance to prepare. Does that mean? to hit you with them without giving you a chance to prepare. Is that mean? I don't know. I don't think it's necessarily mean, but I will share that I have been very nervous about this. First of all, they're not that bad. But I just wanted to kind of hit you and see how you answer a few questions.

Okay, I think you may have answered this one. At what point did the switch throw in your brain to say oh i'm doing this well i think there were a couple of switch thrown moments but i think the one that really was okay there's no going back now was the intervention from the guild. Just having talked through that with all of you, and really it was the commitment I made on that call. Not that I've gone back and I've felt like, well, I wish I wouldn't have said that, but I got to follow through because I told these guys,

I know that you wouldn't hold my feet to the fire if I really was second-guessing that. But just having made that decision in front of you all, that's really the moment in my brain where it's like, okay, full speed ahead. This is a question uniquely for Mike Schmitz. How many books did you read related to the decision and which ones would you recommend? Oh, geez. Uh, I read a lot. Um, okay. So I already mentioned the, uh, the pathless path by Paul Millard and, um, that one I would recommend. Uh, I also read Amy Porterfield has a new book out called Two Weeks Notice, which is kind of deceptive because if you look at the title, it kind of makes it seem like this is what you need to know to quit your job. But the message of the book is really, it's an empowering message about being a creative entrepreneur.

And I don't think she's trying to push anyone to do that, but her whole story was very powerful. She was a marketing person that worked for Tony Robbins and then went out on her own and a bunch of people told her, you're crazy, you're not going to be able to make it on your own. But she's obviously very successful now. And she's had to overcome a lot of the obstacles that creative entrepreneurs will encounter. So that one was pretty good. I would recommend that one too, but the Pathless Path is better. And then there was another one, Burn the Boats. I don't even remember who it was by because I haven't finished that one. You saw that one and you're like, not so sure about this book. And I think you were right about that one.

So I wouldn't recommend that people necessarily pick that one up. But Pathless Path is really good. Definitely read that one. And Two Weeks Notice by Amy Porfield is pretty good too if you're looking for another recommendation. So now that you're committed to this change,

what are you most looking forward to about this new life you're going to have? Time freedom. There is a concept that I'm currently reading, The Gap and the Gain by Dr. Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan. And The Gap and the Gain is a concept I've been familiar with for a long time. But this was a book that they co-wrote together fairly recently. And in that book, they talk about the two different types of freedom. There's freedom from and freedom to. And I made this decision not because of freedom from. It was not, you know, I never want to go to another meeting ever again.

It was the freedom to and really just thinking through what could my daily routine look like. And there's one specific thing that gets me really excited. So I do this thing, we call it one-on-ones, where every week I take a different kid to a coffee shop. We've been doing this for years. So we rotate the kid, I rotate the kid every week. And even when they're really little, they get hot chocolate, I get coffee, and then we just play games for an hour. And a lot of times that leads to conversation, which continues in the car on the way back home. And I'm just trying to build a platform in the lives of my kids as they get older so that they feel comfortable and they have the opportunity to talk about the difficult things

and starting to see some fruit from that. But I was thinking through, wouldn't it be great if instead of doing that once a week, I could do that every day? And when I think about it, it's really not that much of a stretch. There's this concept that I became familiar with a while back of this uh called a life and air and it's a play on millionaire so a millionaire has a a lot of money well life and air has a lot of life what does it look like if you are very wealthy in terms of the the lifestyle you want to live and that doesn't mean that you have to have a whole bunch of money. As I did the math on this, I'm like, hmm, you know, so 10 bucks every time we go, do that five times a week, that's 50 bucks, 50 weeks in a, 52 weeks in a year. You know, this is not a major investment for me to have an insane amount of quality time with my kids. And that's not something that I can do

today, but honestly, it's not that far off. And then that got me really excited to think about, well, what are some of the other things that I could be doing? And there's little things. I still have to really refine this vision of my ideal week that you challenged me with a couple episodes ago. I'm still kind of figuring that out, but it's really just a lot of flexibility to go and do the field trips that our kids do for like the homeschool stuff. And I'm going to be coaching soccer again this fall, being able to go to the practices, go to the games and not have to work around any of the work meetings. Like that sort of stuff is going to be really great. I don't know 100% what it looks like yet, but I got a couple of things and that has created a lot of excitement for me. Yeah. I mean, as a lawyer, I never had complete

control over my schedule and stopping that, I can tell you I'm still amazed by the ability to control my schedule like never before. What are you most afraid of? I'm most afraid of it not working essentially but there are different flavors of that so one version of that is well do people really want to join a cohort to learn Obsidian from you I have a feeling they do but but there's a non-zero chance

that I'd launch this thing and no one signs up for that. And the narrative around that is people don't want what you have. But there's other things like the economy is in the US, all the signs are pointing towards that there could be a recession. So even if people like my stuff, maybe they don't have as much disposable income and this is the absolute wrong thing to do at the wrong time. So that's another narrative that runs through my brain. But ultimately, yeah, those are true facts, but that doesn't mean that I can't overcome those things. And so those aren't enough to really, at the moment anyways, they don't create the dread that the uncertainty used to. Once I wrestled through that and I made the decision that, okay, I'm going to give this a shot, the weight was essentially lifted. Know thy enemy.

Exactly. What does success look like for you in a year? That's a very good question. There are a couple of specific financial goals that my wife and I have. We've got some credit card debt again. We want to knock that out. And I think that is totally possible. The other things I think are more along the lines of, I don't feel like I have to do certain things during my workday that I am 100% choosing each of the projects that I'm invested in. So I have this not very well defined, but this picture of like these rolling cohorts with a break in between. And I just go from one cohort for this thing to another cohort for this thing to another cohort for this other thing. And that's really exciting to me. In between

all of those, I guess success would also include some lengthy sabbaticals, not lengthy, week-long sabbaticals, like we've talked about with sabbaticals like we've talked about with Sean McCabe. I really want to incorporate that into my regular schedule. But I'm already recognizing that when I get to choose the projects that I'm involved in, I absolutely love working on those things. So it's really just that freedom to engage with the projects that I want to engage with on my terms and on my schedule. That's probably a bad answer, but I know exactly what that will feel like. I think that's exactly what I'm looking for. It's not an objective measure.

It's a subjective measure of what you're doing and how you're spending your time, which is kind of the point here. I can tell you, I actually went back and forth on that question. Do I make it one year? Do I make it five years? And I feel like one year was the outside limit of that. I feel like trying to say what success is like in five years is a fool's errand. You know, once again, it's a compass, not a blueprint. Sure. Okay. Well, Mike, I know you, I know your work ethic. I know this is going to be a success. I know it's easy to hear that and, um, and want to roll your eyes, but I, I have a lot of faith in you. Very happy for you and Rachel and your family. I think you guys are about to enter a very exciting period.

And, uh, I think I can speak for the listeners that we are all very excited for you and wish you the best with this. Thank you. I do have one last small story to tell. So my oldest son helps out with some of the other creative projects that he does the editing for Bookworm and Intentional Family. Joshua, my second oldest, is a pretty talented designer. And so I'm trying to get him to help out with some of the design projects for faith-based productivity things. And so they obviously are impacted by this decision as well. And so when I first was talking through things with Rachel, made the decision, okay, we're going to do this. things with Rachel, made the decision, okay, we're going to do this. I remember my oldest two were sitting at the table at night. The younger ones had gone to bed already and just kind of blurted

out, okay, well, it looks like I'm going to quit my job. And Toby, my oldest, is like, sweet. Well, the funny thing is you're talking about your dad just wait you know sometime 20 to 30 years in the future and toby comes to you with a cool idea that you think is crazy and it will be karma sure all right we are the focus podcast You can find us at relay.fm slash focused. You can join the forum over at talk.macpowerusers.com. We have a special room there just for the Focus Podcast. We want to thank our sponsors, Squarespace, Indeed, and Nom Nom. And we'll see you next time.