Focused - 230: Journaling & Intention, with Joe Moyer

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

Welcome to Focus, a productivity podcast about more than just cranking widgets. I'm David Sparks and joined as always by your friend and my Mr. Mike Schmitz. Hey, Mike. Hey, David. How's it going? Excellent. I'm having a great day here in kind of muggy California. We haven't, you know, spring hasn't arrived.

Summer isn't here yet, but it's going to show up with a vengeance soon, I'm sure. Do you plant anything, Mike? Are you a gardener at all? My wife is a gardener. We have some flower beds by our house that she has turned into just like tomatoes and a couple of plants. However, there is a monkey wrench thrown into that this year

as a couple of mallard ducks have decided to make a nest in the middle of our garden. Oh no. Well, kind of fun too. Yeah. I have my tomatoes and the problem, I grow tomatoes too, but the problem sometimes is some of the local wildlife figures it out about the time they become ripe. I had one where a squirrel just hollowed out. I had this perfect tomato. I was thinking, okay, tomorrow I'm gonna pick it. And then I came out the next morning and it had just hollowed out by a squirrel.

Like, geez. Anyway, nice weather here. And today we've got a guest on the show. Welcome to the Focus Podcast, Joe Moyer. Thank you guys, great to be here. Yeah, Joe, I have been following you over at 24 Letters for a while and I just love. Yeah, Joe, I have been following you over at 24 Letters for a while and I just love your vibe, Joe.

I like what you write and I thought you would be a great guest for the Focus podcast, but I guess we should tell the audience a little bit about you. Sure, yeah, thanks. It's great to know that the people are reading out there. Yeah, so I started 24 Letters back in 2021. I was just going on parental leave

and kind of taking a break from the rush of working full-time to be a dad. It was our second kid and it was a really great opportunity for me to take a breath. And of course, I was worried that I might get a little bored, which having already had one kid, you think I would have known better,

but I decided that I wanted to kind of reengage being creative. I used to blog years and years ago, like in the early 2000s when I was a kid, essentially, when I was in my early 20s. And I decided I wanted to write about what I was trying to get better at, which was understanding who I was,

what my place was in the world, uh, how to be a better dad, how to be a better leader, how to be a better friend. So 24 letters kind of grew out of that, that desire to grow and reengage something in me that was creative that I really hadn't done as much in my day job at the time. You know, so often to me, some of the best blogs are in essence public journals. And your current blog is like that.

That sounds like your first one was as well. It was. I would say the first one was what you would expect from maybe someone in their early 20s, figuring it out in a different way. Probably less interesting, but I don't know. I don't think it's around anymore, but if you dig hard enough, you might be able to find it. You know, it's funny you say I was just a kid, but you were in your early 20s. I know. I feel like I was a kid.

I give 20 year olds adulthood, though. I did give it to them. I feel like I remember when I was 20, I felt like I was dealing kid. I give 20 year olds adulthood though. I do give it to them. I feel like I remember when I was 20, I felt like I was dealing with adult stuff by then. Yeah, I was journaling. Yeah, but you were a different version of yourself. That's the part I would argue that, you know, folks, you evolve and it is easy to look at yourself when you were that age as a kid, but you were an adult,

but you were a different version of the adult you are now. Yeah, that's a great point. But anyway, so you made the 24 letters, and of course it's based on a Marcus Aurelius quote, so I feel like of course I'm gonna like it. Yeah. Right, yeah. It's a stoic quote that really captured me.

It's actually from another stoic philosopher named Athena Doris, but it sort of ties right in there. And it was when he was a teacher, he was working with Octavian, who was 19 years old, and he was about to become Caesar. He was about to become the emperor of Rome. Maybe the best one, or the most famous one, I guess. Right, right.

Yeah, and he had a great teacher. And the quote is, "'Whenever you feel yourself getting angry, "'Caesar, don't say or do anything "'until you've repeated the 24 letters "'of the alphabet to yourself.'" So there you go. Which is great advice.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and Joe, you also are a very active journaler and you write about journaling a lot. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on the show. You even have a newsletter dedicated to journaling. I do, yeah, it's called the Journaling Guide. It ships out every two weeks on the weekend.

I like to think that maybe we have a little bit more time on Saturday and Sunday to do some personal reflection and some journaling. So that's when it usually hits inboxes on Saturday morning most often. And I just released what I'm calling the Journaling Challenge, which is you can sign up, it's completely free.

And it's basically a 10 day prompt based journaling course that you'll get in your inbox 6 a.m. every day. Super simple. And my goal was just to get people to base journaling course that you'll get in your inbox six a.m. every day. Super simple and my goal was just to get people to give journaling a try and see if it really worked for them. So often the goal, right? Just give it a try. Yes, right. Just give it a try and see what happens.

Joe, I wanna go back to this transition period that kind of led to you doing the blog because I wanna go further on this. You were a fancy working guy, then you had your second child, and you stayed home. How long did you stay home, and what was that like between,

you know, I guess between jobs essentially? Yeah, I was supposed to stay home for six months and it was nearly three years before I went back to work. My son had some medical stuff we figured out and then when he was 19 months old he was diagnosed as being on the spectrum. So you know it was it was a pretty amazing journey to be on and I was so used to the grind of work. I worked I work in operations and I was so used to the grind of work. I worked in operations and I was on site during the pandemic.

So, you know, I was used to being very busy and taking the break meant I had to be home, you know, with my family, with my son, you know, doing kind of the same stuff every day. And I really struggled with it. It took me a long time to figure out how much of a gift it was and how... I'm glad I figured out when I did

because it wasn't like so much of our lives, I feel like, where we don't figure out how good we have it until it's done. And in this case, I was able to recognize the value in being at home, being around my family, being able to support my wife's career, seeing my two very young kids grow up a little bit, and really just being able to connect with that

and understanding that it was a huge gift, huge turning point in my life, because now that I'm back at work, it helped me understand now that, you know, works, works meaningful and it's, it can be important, but there really is nothing more important than my family. And I think it took that time for me to be home and really have to do a lot of reflection and a lot of work on myself to really see,

um, just the gift that it was to be able to take that break. And I was so resistant to in the beginning, even though I wanted to support my family, and I love my family, but it was really such a shift because I was used to doing what most of us do, which is you get up really early, you go to work, you work all day, you come home. Oftentimes you're thinking about work because you're stressed about it. So I think it was a really good reset for me to go through. And it's something I wish more people could do, especially in my life, I have a lot of male friends or colleagues who when they have kids,

they maybe take a couple of weeks off, maybe a little bit more, but there was so much value in it for me, much like journaling that I you know, I think if, if people had that opportunity and could take it and could maybe get through the initial stumbling blocks of it's difficult, it's challenging. You have to kind of slow down and become more focused on yourself and your family. It's such a gift that I was able to do that.

I'm so glad you said that. I wanted to talk about that as a man, because I feel like right now in our culture, we're starting to identify this, I guess you would call it an identity crisis for men and boys about where they fit and how things work. And I think that would be a struggle for a lot of men to just take a pause on the career and stay home. And it sounds like you worked through it.

I did, and it was a struggle. And a lot of it was based on identity. I think that men should work, which is, I think that men should work, which is, I think, sort of silly. I don't think that has to be the case at all. But it is cultural, and it took a lot of work to get through that. I agree with you, I'm a little concerned about

the guys in our generation. I've got a couple in my management team that I'm really excited to work with and mentor because I want them to get what I hope is good inputs and good advice. I've got a couple in my management team that I'm really excited to work with and mentor because you know I want them to get what I hope is good inputs and good advice and I talked to them a lot about my my experience taking this break and at first I think they were a little surprised by it But I think they're now starting to see how good it was for me yeah, I've been lately like buying books for a lot of the

The men in my family that are raising boys and like they're getting all these books from me and I wanna talk to them at family events. I think I'm becoming unbearable, but I think it's something that's important that we identify and kind of try to figure out. I agree. So what did you do to wrestle through that? You mentioned, took this break,

you went to work on yourself. What did that look like? Well, I read a lot. I've always enjoyed reading I'm a bit of a slow reader. It's just the sort of the way I am when I read I like to kind of digest it and I really started reading a lot more because You know when you have babies a lot of times you're just hanging out making sure they got everything they need and they're staying safe. Didn't sleep much when my second was born for about the first year, year and a half.

So I have memories that were probably not so fond at the time, but now kind of looking back, rocking my son or reading a book on an iPhone, which is not the most ideal way of doing it. But I really thought about my inputs. So I was reading a lot. I was trying to distill what I was reading and understand how it could help me become a better person.

So I was reading books, obviously a lot of books about stoicism because that's a topic that interests me, but reading books about social psychology and personal development. So reading was a big thing. And I spent a lot more time outside because kids love to be outside and that was really good for me.

We have a nice yard with a great play area so I really took advantage of that. I did, I started writing which was huge because I was able to kind of not turn it into a job so much but it was a external kind of not turn it into a job so much, but it was a external point of I guess validation of It was a commitment I think is a good way to put it so it was a commitment to myself to be creative At that point I was trying to publish something at least once a week on my blog

so those kinds of things I think really thinking about my inputs and then So those kinds of things, I think, really thinking about my inputs and then considering who I was becoming and who I wanted to be. So whether it was in the blog or whether it was journaling or just having conversations with my wife or the few friends that I have, really trying to make an effort to understand where I had been and where I was in the moment. And then, to understand where I had been and where I was in the moment. And then, you know, the future was a little bit less clear, but really just trying to say, okay, this is what I was doing. How does it kind of impact where I am now? And then, you know, once I was able to do that,

I feel like there was just, it was very growthful for me. It was difficult, but it was, it was growthful. Now, during that period, were you talking to work, like did you say I'll be back in a couple of years, or were you just kind of adrift for my career at that point? So where I was, it was one of these big contract management companies. I left.

When I went on leave, I said I'll be back. And of course, I didn't go back. I didn't really know where I would end up professionally. I had't go back. two things would happen. Something in my life would make it very clear to me that it was not the right time to go back. And I would drive myself crazy. Like I would be looking and going on LinkedIn and working on my resume.

And something in my life, you know, with my kids or my wife, or just maybe something I was reading would remind me that this is not the time for this. You really need to be here. You're where you need to be. Stop trying to escape. You know, my wife has a great job. We were financially able to be here. You're where you need to be. Stop trying to escape. My wife has a great job.

We were financially able to do it. And I think being a little bit adrift professionally and going through that process a couple of times, probably two or three times that I can think of, helped me really understand the time I had was a gift. And it wasn't a burden. It was not always easy, but nothing is always gonna be perfect or easy. Perfect is the enemy of the good.

It's a quote I think we've all heard and we all know, and it's really true. So it may not have been perfect, but it was where I needed to be and not being focused on career growth or the next promotion, it was the healthiest thing for me to do. You mentioned that you focused on your inputs, right?

And that resonates with me, big fan of that approach, garbage in, garbage out. Right. And just one of the tipping points for me was just choosing to replace my social media reading with reading books and all of a sudden I was much more creative and had all these All these ideas and things like that but then there's also a book into that which you mentioned which was you started writing more and

I think that's a real important Process to help you kind of make sense of things. There's a saying, thoughts disentangle themselves through lips and pencil tips. And I would add clicky keyboards to that list also curious if you don't mind, if you wouldn't mind describing a little bit what that writing process did for you? Like, what sort of inspiration, revelation did you get from that? And why was that such an important part of the process for you? Yeah, that's a great question. I think it was, it sort of started as me trying to put my writing in a box. You know, I wanted to kind of, particularly on the blog, I wanted to kind of particularly on the blog I wanted to have a certain tone and a certain style and When I really tried to do that it didn't work as well

But when I wrote what felt naturally to me what what I was getting Again from those inputs. So if I was reading something about I remember reading a book by Dan Pink about time That was I just thought it was like the most interesting book So I really started focusing on things like temporal landmarks and ideas of how time passes a book by Dan Pink about time that was, I just thought it was like the most interesting book. So I really started focusing on things like temporal landmarks and ideas of how time passes, which I think made for pretty good content and also was exactly what I needed to be reading

and writing about because I was experiencing time in a different way. Some of the best writing that I did, at least for myself was almost stream of consciousness. You know, I wasn't really a, especially when I first started, a kind of a first draft, second draft, final draft kind of guy, I would just put it down sort of like when I journal. But I know that the better the inputs were,

the more interesting the books. You know, occasionally some YouTube videos that were kind of, again, not junky. I think those helped me understand that I have a voice and there's, even if there's people who aren't interested in it right now, that's not the priority for me. I just wanted to write to create. It would have been, obviously we all like to know that people are reading our stuff and that we're resonating with people. And there was a couple of times when I would get a note from someone or someone would share something.

And that was really lovely. And it was great because I was connecting with people. But I think for me, the most important thing was just getting it out and just kind of exploring through words what I was feeling, what I was thinking and where I wanted to go. Yeah, I agree. You're right. First for yourself and then for other people. Yeah, it's not. It's not obvious or it seems maybe a little bit counterintuitive, but the writing process is really where you discover who you really are and what you really think about things.

Yeah and I look at guys like you who I read your work, I listen to your podcasts, and it would be helpful for me sometimes to remember that whether that you are a published author or a podcaster or any sort of creative person, they start somewhere. And the people who I resonate the most with do what you just said Mike. They started for themselves and the people who I resonate the most with do what you just said like they started for themselves and the audience kind of found them they found their audience and it kind of just jelled together. I'd add to that a lot of people that get into this stuff think they want to do it to find a to find like a monetization angle like how am I gonna find advertising or how am I going to make this into something that Can make money and those to me always the most boring. Yeah

My feeling it was always just make good stuff that you're interested in and if there's people out there that like it So be it, you know, mm-hmm I was encouraged to write about being a dad by by really well-meaning and lovely family members But that was not a topic that I felt That was that was something I was living so intensely that I think I wrote about being a dad often But it was in a different way It was through a different lens and I think one of the reasons why that came up is because people who write about being Parents, it's popular right people are interested in So, and what I would tell these folks is,

I think I'm doing that if you read it deep enough. I'm talking about my journey as a human being, and it just so happens right now I'm a parent, a full-time parent. Yeah, a good friend of mine was a full-time parent. Now his kids are grown, but I remember one day calling him saying, "'Hey Chris, how's it going?'

And he's like, you know, Dave, I'm washing a cup right now and tomorrow at this time I'll be washing the same cup. Yeah, it's a little tedious but there's some space in that tedium that once I figured it out, I feel like I kind of maybe cracked a little bit of the code, I still don't know nearly enough about much of anything but washing that same dish every day

for what I thought was gonna be three or six months, and then I'm doing it for almost three years, there is something useful in that if you can just get out of your own way to find it. And I hope your friend found that too, David. Oh yeah, yeah, he did. This episode of the Focus Podcast is brought to you by Indeed.

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of the Focus podcast and all of Relay. So Joe, after you do decide to go back, and you said it was about a three year break, you go back to the fancy job, presumably back in operations, and you see two cute little faces on your way out the door. And then you leave them and go to work.

How's that feel? It felt difficult. It was very difficult. One of the benefits is my job is five minutes away, which is great. The job I had before that, I was commuting at least an hour a day, which was a long time for me.

I know, David, you're a California guy, that's probably about what you'd expect to do out there. But it was a long time for me. I know David, you're a California guy, that's probably about what you'd expect to do out there. But it was a long, you know, so my immediate reaction was that it's the right choice to do right now, but it was very difficult. And it's a new job, it was a new job. So the days were long, and I was stressed and tired and everybody was getting sick because I went back to work in the middle of the winter. It was very difficult.

It was far more difficult than I expected it to be, actually, I did not anticipate it being as hard as it was. I think I've shared this story on the show before on one of my shows about when my oldest started daycare and I dropped her off on the second day, and it was raining, and as I'm walking away, as they tell you when your kids are new to daycare, just walk away, don't make a big deal.

She says, daddy, save me. You know? And I sat in the parking lot of the daycare center for like about 30 minutes as I had to work through something because I was literally sitting in the car crying and like, and just an ounce away from calling and quitting my job and just going to pick her up and go back home.

I was, I've never been so close to just quitting a job as I was that morning. So I think it is rough, right? You were with him for three years. So I don't- Yes, every day. I don't envy that period for you. It was very difficult.

It was, I had moments just as you did where maybe this doesn't make sense. This is an experiment and maybe this isn't gonna work. Yeah. But now you've been at it for a while and you guys have found your balance and you have not given up on the writing habit. One of the things that you talk about on your blog often, and you even have a newsletter about it, is journaling.

When did you get started with journaling? I started journaling probably when I was 19 or 20. I started journaling, I got a notebook from the local bookstore, and I just started journaling. I got a notebook from the local bookstore and I just started journaling my day. It was not necessarily public, although a few years later I did start my blog, which was sort of a personal journal.

But yeah, I've been doing it pretty consistently for maybe the past couple of decades, just over a couple of decades. That's a long time to journal. How has your workflow changed? And I'm not necessarily, I know we'll get into maybe some of the tech stuff, but just your approach to journaling changed from the beginning to where it is now. I think I had a lot more time when I was younger.

So I would journal very lengthy passages, sometimes multiple passages a day. I would. Definitely do much longer journaling. So where I am now, most days I do maybe kind of an end of day review, but always do just a very simple gratitude prompt in day one. So I would say time has been a big impact and maybe I also just get more out of doing less. How did you get started journaling? Did you have some direction or was it just this is something I've heard I should do? I'm

gonna open up my blank notebook and start writing and we'll see what comes out. I think it was because of, I think my friends were journaling. And also I was interested in some of the writers at the time and some historical writers who, you know, they sort of published their journals. There was, he's still doing his thing. There's a guy named Henry Rollins who, you know, kind of a punk singer, but also a writer.

And he used to just write his thoughts and they were pretty raw and they You know, but he would publish them and they they kind of appealed to me as a younger man You know, I think he was a kind of a good role model in terms of just trying to figure out what's right in the world And what you're supposed to do in the world another inspiration was Tony Bourdain. His book Kitchen Confidential came out which was arguably less a journal and more kind of a sensational, you know, sort of, well I guess it was kind of a journal but it was it was a little bit more sensational than just

your typical journaling to yourself. But it was definitely a combination of that. My friends were journaling. And also just an interest in history. You know, you read something like the Dyer van Frank. I wasn't familiar with meditations then, but I had read the Dyer van Frank in high school and thought it was incredible. I just reread it last year and, you know and just the resonance of someone's experience from a long time ago going through something incredibly difficult,

which I wasn't. I was living in a peaceful place and I didn't have any of that stuff going on, but I could still see there was a human connection. And I think I felt really compelled to explore that on my own. Did it click for you from the beginning or did you have some false starts with it? Maybe what are some of the the and if you did have some false starts what are

some of the things that kind of made it hard for the the habit to stick for you? In the beginning I I think I struggled with what I assume a lot of people I know some people who are journaling do which is you feel like your thoughts aren't worthy to be on the page. You feel like it's silly or you feel like, you know, this is something that people like me don't do. Again, getting back to maybe a challenge that the young men are facing, the idea that journaling is somehow not a masculine thing to do, which I think is less so now than it was when I

was a kid. But I think all of it comes down to maybe a little bit of a lack of self-confidence, even when I was writing for no one but myself. So that was a challenge, just understanding that it's okay to write down whatever you want. It's your journal and the thoughts can be

whatever you want them to be, whatever is meaningful at the time. And there was other times where, you know, I would take a break or kind of fall away from it. But I think I was pretty happy with doing it because I really did feel like it was it made me better. I feel like it made it made me better as an individual. I made my relationships better. So I did see a lot of value in it. Yeah, you mentioned the thoughts not being worthy of showing up on the page. And I've struggled with that myself and in my journaling routine. And one of the things that sticks with me is something that Jim Rohn said at one point where he would always buy these really fancy notebooks. And he would write his thoughts and he would basically journal in them. And someone asked him, why do you buy these really expensive notebooks and he would write his thoughts and he would basically journal in them.

And someone asked him, why do you buy these really expensive notebooks? And he said, basically it was because he wanted to force himself to have ideas on those pages that were worth the price that he paid for the notebook. And I noticed that, you know, that obviously is inspiring to me, but I struggle with it at the beginning beginning that the same thing that you mentioned,

you know, my thoughts aren't worth jotting down on in this, this fancy notebook. Like it's, it's not, the juice isn't worth the squeeze essentially, but what I've discovered, and maybe, maybe this is your experience too, is that it's kind of the, the quantity after you've done it enough that leads to the quality. If you're gonna sit down Jim Rohn style and I'm gonna just jot down my great ideas in this notebook, you've never done it before,

you're not gonna have the great ideas. You kind of have to, exactly, exactly, you got a right to discover what good ideas and what thoughts are inside you. Yeah, I think it's like anything. You know, you learn from your failures and that's where the growth comes from. Or not even failures, you just learn from practicing. I wrote a piece on my blog about, you know, sort of this idea of the perfect journaling fallacy

because, or the perfect journal fallacy. So we've all, I think everybody does it who takes an interest in journaling. These notebooks are beautiful. Some of them are expensive. And then I'm supposed to open it and write down what I did today. Okay, I guess I can do that. Which is why when I've given some advice to people about journaling, I kind of try to take that out of it. And I just say, find something to write with and find something to write on. So If you've got a receipt sitting next to your computer with a pencil start writing if you've got pen You know a printer paper start writing Raid your you know your kids

cupboard and grab a coloring book just and that's kind of ridiculous, but I think the point of that for me is saying The the notebook or the journal has been made for you. That's why they created it so the notebook or the journal has been made for you. That's why they created it. So even if your thoughts are a little clunky or you're not really super confident in the voice you have, this is the only way you're gonna get better is by sitting there with the notebook open or with day one open or the notes app on your phone

or the printer paper and just start writing. You know, I had that recent experience where he sent a family member off to college and I wanted to give her a journal. I think that's a great time in your life to journal, but I really had a crisis in the store because I felt like if I bought her the fancy leather one that she would not write in it.

Like knowing this kid, right? She's gonna be like, oh, this isn't a worthy thought for this book, you know? So I ended up giving her something lesser and checked in with her and it did the habit to take, but I really believe that I've got her the really nice one. I'm not sure it would have worked. Yeah, you read that person well

and hopefully the journaling will help them feel more confident in their own thoughts. Does that manifest as well, you think, in the digital realm or does the fact that these are just bits and not actual pieces of paper help alleviate that my thoughts aren't worthy of this page? That's a great question. I think that if you look at the way an app like Day One, that's the journaling app I've been using for a long time,

the way it works and kind of the way it presents data. They obviously did recently update it and it looks a little bit nicer now, but it probably does take some of that out because it is just digital. It's your ideas flowing onto the screen instead of the page. So I haven't really thought about that too much,

but I'm curious. I think you might be on to something about that. What do you think, David? I think for me, there probably is a little bit of that still because I have in the back of my mind that I'm gonna collect all of these entries and I'm gonna go back and review them. And I want the things that I go back

and take the time to reread to be valuable so I think this you could still face that resistance even if you use digital tools but yeah for me personally it feels more ethereal and less permanent when I do it digitally as opposed to analog and I think I have less of that personally but I guess to each his own. I mean, and day one, you can turn into a book. Like you can have it printed if you want to. So there's something to that.

I think a related question is the way you journal. Like I have, I've done so many experiments. I've done so much, because I always try to figure out what's the right method for me. And that's not really for the benefit of people who read the stuff I do, I've done so much, because I always try to figure out what's the right method for me, and that's not really for the benefit of people who read the stuff I do, because I think everybody's got different answers to those questions.

But the more I do this, the more I realize that my best journal entries are the ones where I just sit down in my chair and record into a microphone and then transcribe it. And it's just those are the best journal entries for me. That's right. That's the Unvarnished version of me that doesn't stop to edit myself while I'm talking and I'll transcribe it. Maybe I will edit it before I put it into a journal But a lot of if you read my journal trees are very conversational because I spoke them But it took me years to kind of figure out that that's the best way for me to do it.

And I think that's normal. And I think it's, part of the fun is almost that it is a process to figure out, well, how do I want a journal? And we have so many options now, as you said, David, you could, with voice dictation now getting so good, you could just do voice journaling and it would, you'd be able to read it pretty well.

I think one of the benefits of an app like Day One, and I'm sure most of the digital journaling apps have it, is the on this day feature. So the more you put in, the more interesting and the more, well, frankly, the more that pulls at your heartstrings, especially if you've got kids or pets or anything, because we're all kind of really,

I think we do a lot of these things in our lives and just maybe forget about them a little bit. So that reminder of you open up your iPad and oh, I see this time I went to the park with my kids and it may have just been another day at the park then, but now it's a really meaningful thing to reconnect with. I think that's maybe an advantage to the digital journaling products out there. but now it's a really meaningful thing to reconnect with. I think that's maybe an advantage to the digital journaling products out there.

I just opened day one. I've got 18 entries on this day. Wow. When did you start using day one, David? At launch. I was in from day one. I've got pictures of handwritten journal entries in here. I've got 12 years ago, I wrote, I'm dictating this as I'm driving to work Monday morning. I had a really nice weekend and I didn't do a lot. That was 12 years ago. Wow. Sam and I watched the new Iron Man movie

and it was better than the initial reviews led me to believe. Yeah, and I mean, that just makes me happy to hear that, right? Like it was just, just reflecting on that, something like even you weren't, you weren't curing cancer there, right David? But you were having a moment and now there's this beautiful memory associated with it.

Yeah. I have this vision when I'm old and drooling on myself to just do nothing, but just read my day one. Yeah. That sounds like you have enough to keep yourself busy. Yeah, I will. I will. I've got a picture here in 2022 on this day, I went and visited my mom and dad's grave.

Yeah. So just, you know. Yeah. It'll take you to a lot of different places. Yeah. Day one is really good for that kind of stuff. Yeah, it is. I've been using it since 2012, I just checked.

I don't actually know when it launched, but. I was at some Apple event and the guy who wrote it was there. I'm like, well, what do you do? And he says, well, I just made a new journaling app. And I said, well, let me try it out. And that was the big thing. And there you go. Yeah.

And the rest is history. Yeah. I feel like one of the big benefits of journaling that people don't get unless they do it is, I don't know, I'll call it self therapy, but just meditation has a similar effect on me, but the process of journaling a problem allows you to untangle it.

And you can do fine in your brain thinking about a problem, but it's very difficult to untangle it. And you can do fine in your brain thinking about a problem, but it's very difficult to untangle the knot until you lay the rope on the table. And journaling does that for me. And I think a lot of people, if they would try it, they would discover that for themselves as well. Absolutely. Most of my big decisions that I've made have been,

even if they banged around in my brain for a little while, the minute I realized I just need to write this down, I need to start journaling or just grabbing something. Yeah, untangling is a great way to put it. It really provides clarity that just in your brain it's not there. I don't know if you're too close to it or there's just not that ability to put it all that down on the paper or on the screen and

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to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C dot com slash focused. That URL one more time is zockdoc.com slash focused. Our thanks to ZockDoc for their support of the Focus podcast and all of Relay. So in addition to the daily journaling that you do in day one, you've also got a process that you do

for a quarterly review. How does that work? Yeah, so that's relatively new. I've tried a few things in day one before that really haven't stuck. For me, and obviously I'm unfocused, you guys talk a lot about the quarterly review process, you both have really good systems,

but for me I've had to try to find a balance because oftentimes I would either kind of do something that was just too heavy and I wouldn't be able to really manage or handle it or I would do something that was too simple and honestly I would lose track a bit or forget about it. So what I've come up with is kind of my own version of what I kind of consider like structured planning, quarterly review,'s it's really pretty simple I create three entries. So I've got a journal just for quarterly review. You can never have too many journals in day one That's my my philosophy. So I have

Three journals. I have a journal entry that just looking back to see how the quarter went, what I learned, the feelings I had, where I thought I did well. And one of the things that I'm really trying to focus on that is relationships. Because in the past for me quarterly reviews have been more about who I am and what I'm doing. But I think I've missed out on the idea of how am I impacting others around me and how are they impacting me. So that's the first piece, looking back and then I create a journal entry looking forward which can be maybe a little hopes and dreams thinking about what I learned, what I want to learn, what I want to have happen next and how it kind of applies to what I want to learn, what I want to have happen next, and how it kind of applies to what I want to do.

So just seeing what the future holds for me. And then I create another entry, I call it the roadmap. It's sort of, I think going back to work has reengaged some of the operation stuff in my brain and the sort of the standard operating procedures. And you guys know that quarters are a big thing when you're in the corporate world. So this was my way of kind of tagging myself

to do the planning. So taking it out of looking back and looking forward, this is just a planning document. And it's about what actions I'm gonna take to get where I wanna be, how I'm gonna to take to get where I want to be, how I'm going to actualize the stuff I did previously to help support where I want to end up. And each area that I'm working on gets its own headline. And I just recently did this. Essentially, there was three big headline buckets that I didn't really plan for this way,

but it kind of how it settled in. So one was about kind of family and a few things about making sure that I'm just really staying connected with my kids and my wife and those who are really important to me, particularly now that I've been back at work for awhile. One was about being creative because it is harder to be creative when you're working full time and trying to balance a lot of things. And then the other one is a little bit smaller, but also professionally, because I'm in a new role. It's kind of a promotion, so there's just things

I know I need to learn and need to keep an eye on. So those are kind of the three buckets. And then for me, again, the ops piece is a deadline, because I know quarters have their natural deadline, but sometimes that's on a Tuesday, or just doesn't kind of work with my schedule. So some of the people I'm working with in the office and the company I'm in now, they're the finance people.

All they do is numbers. And I had kind of forgotten about this, but the period sort of maybe closes, not when the quarter closes. So what I've done is my deadline is I have to the seventh day of the first month after the quarter hits. Part of that was because, you know, there will likely be a weekend in there.

So I'll have a little bit more time to kind of process how I did. And part of it's just to give me a little bit of breathing room, but not unlimited breathing room, because to me, unlimited breathing room means I'll never get it done. So that's the deadline is when I would review how I've done.

And the way I'm tracking how I'm doing is, I've essentially, it's in my work calendar, for lack of a better term, I've booked a weekly call with myself because my calendar is full and I am kind of in the middle of a management structure. So I've got a lot of people putting stuff on my calendar. I'm putting things in other people's calendars.

And this is basically my attempt at time blocking. So once a week I have a midday half hour hour blocked out and that's where I go. I bring my iPad Pro to work with me and I just pull open the entries and start seeing how I'm doing. I open up the roadmap, put the date and just make some notes and see where I'm at. And so far it's going pretty well. You know, it's still kind of new to me, but I like the balance because it's a process

that makes sense to me, but it's not too big, and I can keep track of it because I have this weekly call set up with myself. So you mentioned the roadmap, and I also have a background in operations. So I'm picturing, like, this could be Gantt charts, this could be Kanban boards, this could be a simple note with a list of tasks.

What does your roadmap look like? You know, I had that vision too. Right now it's extremely simple, but I can see it kind of going where it needs to go. Um, I love a good Kanban board. I think they are so useful in a lot of ways. So I think that piece will come if it makes sense to me because initially I was going to kind of lay the document out and You know am I gonna put in a chart? How am I gonna do this and?

Day one is pretty simple I mean, I know you can do some things in there But that was part of why I liked it because I just could type and kind of get the words out But I could definitely see you know dropping a can van in there at some point, but for now, it's very simple it's just the date and Then kind of the three headings of what I'm really trying to focus on and then a few paragraphs.

I think that's instructional, right? Because getting into journaling, one of the ways you can avoid journaling is coming up with complex processes and having to create special charts and everything, right? Keeping it simple really does help. Yeah, and I think that's why I did it this way, despite my desire to make charts and make graphs

and make link documents. I think I know myself and I have to do all that a lot, especially at work. So the simplicity really is, I think what I was driving at. Yeah, everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler, right? Yes.

And that is the struggle for, I'll say for myself, probably a lot of people who have a background in operations because it's almost like you make something complex, everything is in there, now everyone has the information that they need, they don't need to come to me. You're trying to remove the roadblocks for people to do their work. And I think it's very natural to overcomplicate things. You mentioned standard operating procedures. And when my wife and

I started putting together stuff for our family, we created a document and my first version of the title was Schmidt's family standard operating procedures. And she's like, absolutely not. So. Yeah. But I can understand why you wanted to do it. And I can understand why she didn't. One of the things that impresses me, Joe, is the intentionality that you bring to things. Like, just listening to the process you developed

for the quarter review, I think that's something that we all aim for. And you're at a point in life where you got for the, for the quarterly review. I think that's something that we all aim for. And you're at a point in life where you got a career, you got kids, you're trying to do the blog thing. You actually have a lot going on, but you strike me as someone who's actually made good strides towards intentionality as you work through things.

What are some of the tricks? Well, I think the tricks are falling down a lot, are making mistakes and trying to reflect down those mistakes. I like this idea that failure is the language of growth. And I think I've learned to learn from failure, which has been easy and a new job because there's a lot of things you don't know.

And I bring, I think a lot of things you don't know. And I bring, I think, a lot of experience and a pretty good skill set of ideas, but there's still stuff you don't know. So I think I've tried really hard to just become more aware of kind of where I'm at around just understanding myself and trying to build habits and systems that really work for me. So that's why I did this, because again,

I like the work that other people are doing with quarterly reviews or time blocking or managing calendars, but I really need to create something that's a little bit more bespoke for me that fits all the pieces. Because as you said, there is a fair amount going on in my day to day and you know one of the things that I had happen and when I first started the job is I started missing appointments you know stuff for like kids haircuts because I realized my system was broken

because I was used to using my own personal calendar but I don't look at my personal calendar anymore because I have I have Outlook which is is a beast and it's sitting at my desk all the time so you know the way I fixed that was just, okay, everything's going on in the work calendar, and then I'll kind of figure out where it needs to go. So yeah, I'm a big fan of, and I think something I'm trying to teach my kids is that you can learn a lot from messing up,

especially if it's a well-intentioned, I'm trying to do the best I can and I messed up. If you're with the right people around you You know, they can really kind of help you learn what you need to learn to get where you want to be there's a Something in that that last statement that you mentioned there that I kind of want to double click on so You mentioned that you make mistakes and you learn from them and the surface level, you know, encapsulation of that is fail a bunch of times and you'll eventually find the thing

that works. But I don't think that's just automatically going to happen. I think it requires the right perspective. So you've already kind of spoken to one part about it, where you're trying to teach your kids, for example, to overcome the fear of making the mistakes because that's part of the process. But what are you doing to help them not just get frustrated with something

that, that didn't work, but actually learn from it and do better next time? Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. And I think I'm starting by trying to remember that they're watching me all the time. Even when I don't think they're watching, even when I'm not paying attention, they're watching and they're listening.

So a lot of the work I'm doing on myself, reading Stoicism and reading other books of philosophy and great thinkers, trying to understand that I cannot control the external actions of other people. I can really, it's the basis of Stoicism, right? I can really only control my reaction to a situation. And I think trying to model that for my kids and for myself and for the people I work with, but primarily for my kids, because they're so impressionable and so young, is the way that I'm attempting to show them that,

you know, you can make mistakes and you can change your approach and people are probably gonna do things that kind of bum you out or make you mad. And then something else I talk to my kids a lot about along those same lines is my daughter, who's a little bit older when she comes home and she'll say that this kid was kind of mean at school.

You know, that's true. The kid was mean to her and that's not nice. They shouldn't be mean to each other. So, you know, if you need to talk to to the teacher you kind of try to work it out but And they're probably a little young for this But it's something I do with my team at work and I'll do with the kids as well. Is that a lot of times if someone Is not supporting you or they're not being nice to you or they seem like they want you to fail It's not necessarily about you, it's about them.

And while it might be directed at you and it might be making it difficult for you to to be the person you want to be or be successful, that's on them. And the more you can kind of understand that people have their own stuff going on and even the best people have bad days, I think that can be a really powerful way to remember that you can do the best you can, you can make mistakes, you can try not to repeat them, you can try to surround yourself with people who love you and who care for you and who want you to see you succeed.

And you still have to understand that you can't control so much of what happens in the world, but you can control how you react to it. And I'm bringing it back to kind of my initial point. I'm really trying to embody that as often as I can. And I fail regularly because I'm a pretty fallible human being, but really just trying to model that behavior for them so they can see

that maybe if it works for someone who they love and trust, maybe it can help them grow and become kind of who they love and trust, maybe it can help them grow and become kind of who they want to be. Joe, just wait till they start feeding it back to you. One of my big things with my kids growing up was you should never judge somebody on their worst day and just assume it's their bad day, their worst day. And we went out recently and the clerk gave me a hard time

and I was grumbling, walking out and my daughter says, dad, you should never judge somebody on their worst day. Wow. Which is amazing, right? Straight through the heart. Yeah. They're listening, right? They're hopefully they're still listening, David. I'm sure they are. Yeah. That experiment works though. Your actions teach your children much more than your words do. Yeah. That was the thing I was gonna say is that more is caught than taught.

It's not what you say, it's what you do that they'll pick up. And I love the fact that you're modeling authenticity for them and you're letting them see you make mistakes. One of the things that is hard about being a parent is you feel the pressure of these little people looking up to you and you feel like you have to be a perfect example and you don't like failing in front of people, especially your kids. You don't want them to see you make the mistakes. But some of the most powerful times in our family have been when I know that I was in the wrong. I did something, I flew off the handle, I acted in a way I shouldn't

have and I bring everybody together and I just wanted to apologize to all of you, you know, that I shouldn't have responded this way. And, uh, every, to every single time you I've done that, there's like this transformation that happens in the kids at the beginning. They're like, Oh, you know, that's almost like They're nervous. Why is dad bringing us together, you know? But by the end like they've got the the spaz and they're all excited about the restoration that's that's happening. So Yeah, I think that's that's very very admirable and I would just encourage people to

Embrace that you know, you don't want to say, well, this is just who I am. It's okay to just fly off the handle. That's still not the right way to handle the situation. But be real about your mistakes and be willing to ask for forgiveness even from your kids. It does a lot to bring peace to the home, at least it has for us. Same, yeah, I apologize regularly because I make mistakes, just like you said, and I think it's healing.

And I think, again, they're seeing your actions. So I want my kids to see that that's the way they should be treated by the people as well. So I think, like you said, when you bring them together, they're a little nervous, but then they're like, wow, dad just apologized to me. This is great. And I think that's a really meaningful thing to do. So it's good to hear that it's working for you as well.

Another verse of that song to me is shared failures. I was always when we we brought young lawyers in, I would always tell them all the dumb things I did as a young lawyer and laugh about it. But at the same time, kind of get across, this is a mistake that I made and hopefully my experience can help you not make it. And I do the same thing with my kids,

particularly lately as they're kind of strained into adulthood. By the time I was there, my dad was long dead. And so I made all the mistakes as a young man. I didn't really have someone to tell me, right, a lot of things that I should have done. And so I can share all those failures with them. And I don't think it at all belittles the relationship.

If anything, I think it only helps. So like if you're out there trying to figure out how to pass some wisdom on, I think one of the best ways you can do it is tell about what a screw up you've been. Yeah, and I do the same. I've screwed up plenty of times, David, so. Yeah.

Welcome to the club. Right. And that actually helps too. When they have something go wrong, I'm like, yeah, you're not alone. Yeah, I did that too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I find that with my younger managers too,

who are just getting started and we have lots of people who want lots of things from us all the time. And it's a combination of when that person called and yelled at you, they're just having a really lousy day. Somebody's probably yelling at them. And also you screwed that up, okay, nobody died.

It's okay, we'll get this figured out. I try to humanize it as well. To get all Greek on you, the Greek concept of Amethia was like a knowing in, it's really not an English word for it, but they had this idea where somebody was intentionally dense, like they should know better, but they don't. And it's an interesting concept.

I wish we had a word for it because I think a lot of us fall into the trap. But the Greek response to it was pity, that you would feel sorry for someone who did that because they were kind of giving up their rational brain. And I like to bring that into the discussions with the kids and coworkers and whatnot too. When you see somebody that's just kind of mean and gross,

you just realize, well, that person should be pitied, really, you shouldn't be angry at that person, you should feel sorry for them. Just think about the life they live, what's going on between those two ears right now. It's not something to wish on your worst enemy. We need an English word for that, please. Yes.

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That link is incogni.com slash focused. And our thanks to Incogni for their support of the FOCUS podcast and all of Relay FM. All right, Joe, you also write a lot about reading and you did a series recently called Getting, or a post called Getting a Reading Habit. I thought it was really good. And tell us a little bit about your experience with reading. I know you've shared a little bit already.

Yeah, I think there's a post I wrote, there's a quote that I pulled from Michael Hyatt. And it's what gets schedule gets done. And there's there's no, I think there's no truer statement. You know, when you plan time for something, most of the time you're going to do it or more often than not. So, you know, I think for me I've, I've built a pretty successful reading habit because I know it's good for me to read and I know there's a lot of distractions that,

that are brighter and shinier, and in the moment would feel better sometimes to do, primarily sitting on my phone. But what I really tried to do is schedule reading time. So it's a little bit more complicated now that I'm working, but I read before bed every night, even if it's just a page or two before I fall asleep. It's something I do every night.

It's kind of a touchstone for me. I read at work sometimes on my lunch break, or if I can go outside for a few minutes and in between meetings and just read a little bit. Something else I've done for the Kindle app is I've removed the progress bar because I just found it distracting. And one of those people there, I see the number tick up

and then I'm not really reading the book. I'm just focusing on moving the number. So That's been helpful for me the the idea that If the book doesn't work for me, I just don't finish it. I Respect people who want to try to finish the book and find something in it that really connects with them But what I find is oftentimes if I put a book down them. But what I find is oftentimes, if I put a book down, sometimes I come back to it later. And it's like the book was waiting for me to just become a different person or to read something else that kind of pulled the book together for me. And then the other

thing I'll do that kind of extends from that is I will find maybe a different book on a similar subject and see if that's a way for me to get into it. I think we all probably do this but I buy a fair number of books and I try not to go overboard. I'm mostly a Kindle guy which I kind of have mixed feelings about personally just because I like books. I like the physical touch of books but Kindle is really convenient for me and it allows me to make notes very easily through ReadWise. So I buy some books on Kindle, I have a document in Craft with books I wanna read that I think will probably outlive me at this point.

And then, you know, one of the things I think that you guys do, I'm sure, is using focus modes. So I have customized my iPad and my iPhone, and it's simple to do, just so that when I'm in reading mode, there's nothing else there for me to see. It's just the Kindle app, maybe Readwise, but it's very simple because I am easily distracted,

and I know the iPhone is a distraction machine. It's useful, it's got lots of amazing technology we're carrying around a supercomputer in our pocket and It's still Really easily for me anyway to go I'm gonna go to threads and then I'm gone. So I Try to use all these tools that companies like Apple have given me To to kind of keep watch over myself I I know I gotta protect myself from myself. And I find that things like focus modes

and really scheduling time to read helps me get what I want to get done, which is I wanna read books, I wanna learn things and be entertained and informed. You know, it's funny, because I've been, I tried to do an evening reading habit for so long and the problem is I'm just out of gas.

Like to read a good book at night for me, I don't have it in me. And so I've, for a while now, been doing like the first thing in the morning. Like I read like an hour before I work. And that's where it landed with me. But could I have done that back in the lawyer days? Maybe, I don't know.

I mean, it would have been hard because you know, you get a jobby job. You know, it's like, people are there, what's Sparky doing? Oh, he's in there reading Play-Doh. Oh, come on. He's got a contract. How does that apply to the case?

Yeah, exactly. You know, so I don't know. And so this is a privileged thing for me, but reading in the morning, boy, that's nice. I used to work second shift when I was younger. Yeah. And I would read in the morning. I would prefer to read in the morning.

But as you said, it just doesn't fit with my life right now. And you mentioned ReadWise. I just love that service so much. I don't, I mean, how, I don't know how I got by without it. Like it's like, there's, you know, you get subscription fees and they come in every year and you're like,

do I need that? This one is like, hell yeah, I want that. Yeah, just give me another, give me another year. Put it in my veins. Give me my, give me my space repetition. I love quotes for a long time. And I'd like to get back to it. I was, I was sharing a quote every week on the blog. And I know read wise is beyond quotes. For a long time, and I'd like to get back to it, I was sharing a quote every week on the blog.

And I know ReadWise is beyond quotes, like you said, it's space repetition. I love it. Same, I don't even think about the fee. I think I've got, I know I've got ReadWise Reader as well, which I don't use as much, but they've got me. They reeled me in. The situation that you were describing, David, with

at the end of the day, not not wanting to to pick up the book. And I'm not going to go super hard on my pitch for for real books here, but I do want to just address that because that's that's exactly what I felt. And the thing that eliminated the friction for me was kind of a combination of what you were talking about, Joe, with the elimination of the options, the focus modes.

You could essentially put screen time on your phone and just turn off social media at 9 p.m. when you're getting ready for bed. And then at that point, your brain's looking for something else to feed on. And then having a physical book, that's the thing that that clicked for me. I'm going to grab that and read that. But the larger point that I want to make through

through that thread, though, is you have to kind of figure out for yourself what is the workflow that works for you. So if you're going to read Kindle books, you can use readwise. That's fine. I still think that the information hits different from a printed page than it does from a screen. We talked to Mary Ann Wolf, and she talked about that too, so recognizing that, but ultimately, what you want, going back to something you mentioned earlier

in the episode, Joe, is you want to increase the quality of your inputs. And if you are reading a book on a Kindle, that is a higher quality input than whatever else you would find to throw another shot of dopamine into your eyeballs. So giving, giving yourself, you know, some high quality stuff to, to feed on. That's really the big takeaway there, I think. Yeah, and I do have,

I'm happy with Kindle and with Readwise, but I hear what you're saying about the value of the printed page, and there are certain authors who I buy the printed book, and I often, sometimes I read the printed book, and then I read it again on Kindle or vice versa, But yeah, in the hierarchy of garbage in garbage out, you know, trying to stay away from that stuff. Any reading habit I feel like is so useful and so relaxing and so informative and entertaining that it's a powerful thing to do, I think.

And it doesn't have to be books, I would argue, although just by choosing books, you kind of are selecting from a. From a curated list, just just the barrier of entry that goes into writing and publishing, even self publishing a book means that the information that's in that book is a little bit more vetted. But if you have blogs that you want to read or you know, sub stacks from people that that you like what they have have to say, that that could be sources of that high quality information too. The thing is to consider what are the inputs

that you are putting into your life. I remember three questions that again from Jim Rohn that have really stuck with me. Who are you allowing to speak into your life? What effect is that having on you? And is that okay? And I think the voices that you listen to in podcasts like this, the YouTube videos you consume, and the books that you read, any sort of information that you're gonna feed on, that is essentially a voice that you read, any sort of information that you're gonna, you're gonna feed on, um, that is, uh, uh, essentially a voice that you're choosing to allow to speak into your life. And it's important to consider what effect that is actually having on you.

And they're recognizing that you've got the power to unsubscribe from the feed or get rid of social media off your phone. If you don't like the effect that it's having on you and you can choose to be a little bit more intentional and that's really where the magic happens. Yeah, I really like that perspective. One of the ways I like to think about that is kind of a signal to noise ratio when you think about it. Like a book is 100% signal and almost 0% noise, right?

Whereas even Substack, like I'm a fan of Substack, I pay for several subscriptions, but reading on the Substack app has a noise element to it because there's all the comments and all that. You know, I don't want that stuff. I just want the article that I paid for. And so that's where I use the Readwise reader. I actually have a, because it gives you an email. I forward all those emails directly into ReadWise

and I read them without comments or anything. But when you're looking to consume things, try to figure out a way to tune out as much noise as you can and there's ways around that. And I think Mike's right, a physical book is the ultimate manifestation of that, but that doesn't mean that if you don't want to or don't like physical books that you can't be a reader. I mean, fortunately there's other options now.

And like when you're rocking a baby, you know, a 300 page book is not that easy, you know? But the, so you've just got to decide what works. Don't judge yourself. Experiment just like with the journaling stuff and figure out what works for you. But to an extent Mike is right, and I think when I was talking earlier, that nighttime reading habit was like

reading in bed, whereas quite often at my house in the evening I will just read a book. Sometimes it's physical, sometimes it's digital. I'm a little bit more forgiving than Mike on that. But in an evening, reading a book is a perfectly fine way to spend an evening. In fact, I think guys, it's time to talk about what books we're reading. Yeah. So one other thing on the physical book. I feel like this is the best way to think

about it. Because I really want to clarify here. I'm not saying that everyone needs to read physical books like me, but I needs to read physical books like, um, but I need to read physical books. And this is, yeah, as we're talking about this, this is the thing that, that stands out to me. A physical book is the ultimate focus mode. If you need that, that help, you know, that's what you should do. And turns out a great way to look at it. Yeah. No, that's a good way to put it. And it's like my relationship with physical books is always evolving, but I found that like really good books,

I have this really strange base desire to read them in physical form. Like I'll buy a book on Kindle and read it like, oh, this is really good. And then I'll get the book. Whereas like a lot of the self-help productivity stuff we read for the show doesn't trigger that for me. I'll blow through it on Kindle in a lot of the self help, productivity stuff we read for the show, doesn't trigger that for me. I'll blow through it on Kindle in a couple of evenings

and I'll be fine. Yep, makes sense. All right, now let's talk about what we're reading. Joe, what are you reading? So I am right now reading, How to Think Like a Roman Emperor from Donald Robertson, slowly working my way through that. And then I'm also reading more Stoicism. So I'm reading Letters from a Stoic by Seneca.

Kind of doing a deep dive into the stoic world right now. Wow, source material, always good. Yeah. How about you guys, what are you reading? Well, I'm actually reading two books. of them you mentioned I think and that is when by Daniel pink I do the bookworm podcast and we read a different book every couple of weeks and I realized we have never covered a Daniel pink Book and we're two hundred and twenty something episodes in so I

Picked that one because I've heard lots of good things about it. But actually the one that I'm reading right now I forget how I heard about this. Oh wait. This was Karen Monroe Karen Monroe. She did a session on using obsidian as a As a facts of life book and she mentioned this book that I had never heard about but looks interesting You need a manifesto by Charlotte Burgess Auburn, and this is published in conjunction with Stanford Design School, so it's got a really fancy website, but this is very much in line with all the life theme stuff

that I do, and I've been thinking about that a lot lately. Got a personal retreat coming up in about a month, and I was thinking about the manifesto piece and maybe I can implement some of that stuff into my process. It's a pretty short book, very visual book. Yeah, so this is the one I'm reading in between is my Gap book and this is the one that I am most interested in currently. There'll be links to all these books by the way in the show notes that people want to check this one out.

But this one I recommend that you look at it on the Stanford design school website. It'll kind of give you a feel for, for what this is a lot better than like an Amazon page would. So this, this one sounds like when you almost need to buy a physical book the way you're describing the design. I think so, but also I've come across the Stanford Design School books and sometimes

they have like really cool online versions. This wasn't exactly a Stanford Design School, but it had much of the same feel, the poor Charlie's Almanac. I would argue that it's almost better to consume that online if you can find it because like that has a whole bunch of photos and it's almost better to consume that online if you can find it because like that has a whole bunch of photos and it's like an interactive experience. I have a feeling that this one probably has some of that, some of those elements to it.

So definitely check out the website and decide for yourself because they got links to the different places that you can buy it if you wanna do that. But it'll give you a feel for the type of book that it is. And it is a really short, really visual book and you can decide if you wanna buy the physical one from there. I think I'm gonna have to check this book that it is. And it is a really short, really visual book, and you can decide if you want to buy the physical one from there. I think I'm gonna have to check this book out, Mike.

You have tempted me. That's what this segment does as a listener. Yeah, well Mike is my canary in a coal mine, because I don't read as many productivity books as Mike does, but if he finds one particularly good, I always read it, and you have not steered me wrong, my friend. I'm going back to source material. I've just been really, lately,

really enjoying reading some of the old stuff. Epictetus wrote a book called The Incaridon, Incaridian. Sorry, Incaridian, I mispronounced. It's basically the handbook. And it was his productivity handbookbook like 3,000 years ago. And I read it in college, I read it in law school, and I read it like 10 years ago. This is the fourth time through.

Mike will be happy to know, I actually bought a physical copy this time. I got the Discourse in Fragments by Robin Waterfield, and it's in there. So I thought, well, that'd be fun to read again. I haven't read that in a long time. And it's just always funny to me how timeless the questions that we talk about on the show are.

People have been struggling with all this stuff for thousands of years. The answers aren't clear. As humans, as barely evolved monkeys, we all have to drag ourselves through the process and figure it out for ourselves. Yeah, and luckily the books that are 2,000 years old are as good, if not better, than some of the stuff

that's on the bestseller list today. It's funny, right? I mean, the ones that stick around, stick around for a reason. True, yeah. Joe, where can people find you? You can find me at 24letters. True. Yeah. Joe, where can people find you? You can find me at 24letters.net. You can either do the numbers or you can spell it out.

And I'm also on threads. I'm active as the journaling guide. And you can also find me on Blue Sky. I'm also at the journaling guide over there as well. And Joe just kicked off this new 10 days of thought provoking journaling prompts. Go check it out if you've been inspired by today's show. Let Joe whisper in your ear every morning for 10 days and help you get started.

That's right. We are the Focus Podcast. You can find us at relay.fm slash focused. Thank you to our sponsors today. That's our friends at Indeed, ZocDoc and Incogni, and we'll see you next time.