Focused - 248: Seriously, A Heroic Journey

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

Welcome to Focus, a productivity podcast about more than just cranking widgets. I'm David Sparks and joined by my co-host, your friend of mine, Mr. Mike Schmitz. Hello, Mike. How are you today? I'm doing pretty good. How are you, buddy? Doing excellent. Doing excellent. Just released the new productivity field guide for 2026. This is kind of my, as you would call it, signature product. Yeah.

Well, you know, is it a signature product? I don't know. I mean, I'm known for teaching technology, and this is a book about kind of getting yourself focused on the most important things. But it is very important to me. This is the why I release it once a year. I want to be able to run that webinar every January. And it's the one that gets me the most nice feel emails because people use this to really turn their life around as opposed to just like getting better at an app. So that's out. 2026.

If you are a focused listener, because you're. listening to the show. This show, because of podcast time, is coming out after the initial launch a discount. So I made a separate discount for you. F-F-G, F-O-C-U-S-E-D, P-F-G, 10% off. The course is about eight hours of video, and there's a book with this one. I don't know, Mike, I thought it was pretty cool. When I added up all the words this year, it's 42,000 words. Nice. Yeah. Added another like 10,000 words. this year to the book. A lot of the focus with this year's update is on two things. The first is there's a lot more kind of like pro techniques, because some people have been doing this idea of roles-based

virtue pursuit for a couple years now, and I have a couple ideas for going even deeper with it. They didn't really make sense when I first released the course, but I think they do now that people have been doing it a while. And I think the other thing, and it kind of led to today's show, is in this version, I think I'm leaning more into the virtue pursuit and just the idea that this is a big deal. And I wanted to talk about that because I think it's something interesting for me. Absolutely. So just to add my two cents to the productivity field guide, this is my favorite thing that you have made. Thanks.

No, I think the stoic philosophy stuff, you and I differ a little bit on that. But still, I would absolutely call this your signature product. This is, you know, when we had Chris on and we talked about intentional, and I used the phrase from the legend of bigger vance that this feels like his authentic swing. I feel the same thing could be made about David's productivity field guide. This is a good one. You get the full Max Sparky with this one. Yeah, very hippy, very hippy.

And really to be clear, though, it's not really Stoicism. It's more me blending up Greek philosophy than it is just Stoicism. And I think Stoicism is great. I think it's of the schools that kind of grew out of Socrates. I think Stoicism is the one that makes the most sense to me because essentially they argued. They all decided, you know, the pursuit they had back then was, How do we get to eudaimonia or, you know, how do you live the good life? And there were different ones.

You know, the Epicureans talked about pleasure. You know, everybody had different ideas. The Stoic said, no, by trying to be virtuous is how you, you, that's the best way to human, you know, to be a human is to try and pursue your best self and virtue. And so a lot of that is definitely influential on me, but there's more to it than that. And also it's not, this book is not really like all about that. It's really more about just saying, well, this is kind of the lever that I could use. But all we're really looking at here is you've got to figure out what's important to you,

pursue that and try to become your best self as that. And it's interesting to me that thousands of years ago people were having the same thoughts, you know? Yeah. But, you know, the problem with Stoicism now is it's got like this kind of like, you know, broicism kind of thing. Sure. There's people who think that, like, if you're mean to women and you take cold plunges, that you're following the Greeks, and I'm pretty sure Marcus Aurelius and Socrates would say,

no, dude, you're really off there. And so I got to be careful about that, but that is definitely a part of it for me. And that gets exactly to the point today. Like, so I grew up Generation X, you know, I feel like not much is talking about. talked about us because we're the ones in the middle. You know, there's the millennials, there's the boomers. But we were a smaller, a smaller subset. But I feel like my generation was always very questioning of authority, you know? And, you know, and honestly, even big ideas.

I was just, Daisy and I were driving the car the day and we were listening to some of our favorite 80s hits. And, like, one of them that came on was everybody wants to rule the world by tears for fears. And we were both talking about how we just love that song. But it also kind of like, that's the way we felt like, you know, everybody out there has got a game and we don't want to be any part of it, you know? And I think that that influences my discussion of this topic in particular because this is deep stuff. And there's a part of me that doesn't want to talk that way because I'm afraid or there's like my, as a Gen Xer, there's a part of me that's just like a little hesitant to like commit like that. Does that make sense? It does.

So I can't relate entirely with the Gen X. I'm a millennial, but barely. Yeah. I do appreciate the 80s nostalgia, though. That is the theme of a fiction book that I read. So maybe I'll talk about that in deep focus. You read a fiction book? Yeah, we will talk about that.

Yeah, but I think you're right. that there's this, there's an inherent belief. Maybe it's the Western culture, I don't know, but you're made for more, essentially. Like there's got to be something bigger, and you want to connect to that. And so I think the whole idea that we're going to talk about here with the heroic journey is relevant to anybody.

Yeah. And the way I update this field, guide is different than most because I do these webinars and then in the summer I usually do a.m. I do one with high school and college kids. So I'm talking to people about this stuff kind of throughout the year. And then also I get a lot of emails about these things as people are kind of engaging with it. And whenever I run into a new wrinkle on it, a lot of times I'll just write myself an essay about what I really think about it. And so I have, that's how I got 10,000 words into the book this year.

As I just went through and read all those essays and edited them and put them in, journal entries as well. And what came out for me this year is several times over the last 12 months I've written in a journal in one of these essays about how I believe this is a heroic journey. And my initial reaction was, oh, I got to cut all that stuff. Nobody wants to hear that, you know? And then as I thought about it, as I listened to tears for fears, I thought, you know what? I wrote that for a reason, you know, this is a heroic journey. And the pursuit of virtue to me

is my life's work in a lot of ways, more than anything else. You know, I want to be the best possible father, the best possible Max Barkie. And in pursuing those things, I feel like I'm humaning the best and I am happy. And it's just like what I should be doing. And I, I don't know what else you could call that but a heroic journey. So I decided, heck with it, I'm going to lean into it. So that's the other big change in this year with the course is I embrace that more. And I've just decided, I think we should all think about it that way. And I'm not saying that everybody needs to do this the way I do it or even buy my stuff.

I think it's a heroic journey, whether you know, you're in a religious tradition or you've got some other life system or a set of rules. that help you navigate life, the pursuit of that is a big deal. And I don't think we need to underplay it. Yeah, there's a quote that I love by Phillips Brooks, who says, sad will be the day for every man when he becomes absolutely contented with the life he is living, with the thoughts that he is thinking, with the deeds that he is doing, when there is not forever beating at the door of his soul some great desire to do something larger, which he knows that he was meant and made to do. that one really resonates with me along with the one about all the great novels that are in the cemetery yeah just to add some context to that because that came i came across that quote when i read a

todd henry book i think it was die empty and uh the point was he was telling this story and there was uh some really a successful person that he met in the middle east and they asked him a question, where is the most valuable land in the world? And he's thinking, is it real estate in Manhattan? Is it the diamond mines? And the man says, no, it's the graveyard or the cemetery, because that's where all of the unpublished books are, the unfounded businesses, where people kept saying, I'll get to that tomorrow, and eventually they ran out of tomorrow's.

Yes. And it's a heroic journey to pursue that one. while you're still around. On that topic, though, because I feel like maybe you hear that and you're kind of like, well, this is kind of a downer episode. I actually don't think it is. I think it's coupled with the idea of the Mentomori, which is just remembering that you're going to die someday.

It's a fact of life. And so we don't have to be afraid of it. We don't have to try to avoid it because no one's going to. Biology always wins. Yeah. Yeah. So literally the best thing we can do is, do the best with what we have. And that whole idea of Memento Mori was actually very freeing for me

because it put limits on what I was actually capable of doing. I kind of applied this inherent unfair pressure to myself to do this great thing. So you can take this idea of the hero's journey, I think, too far. And you can be like, I got to change the world. No, you don't have to change the world. Change somebody's world. You know, make the impact that you can make. Do the best. with what you have, but you don't have to measure the output or the size of the dent in the universe. Just leave a dent. You don't know how big it's going to be by the time you're placed in the ground anyways. So just don't worry about that stuff. And do what you can with what you have. I mean, kind of a flip side of that, which I also believe is like, don't forget everybody forgot

who Harry Selden is. You know, if you read the foundation series, most important guy in the universe and if you go out far enough, nobody remembers them. That also gives you a bit of freedom to like do your particular thing and pursue your best self. And the thing we do on this show, at least we try to do, is make this about more than answering your email faster. And I believe the reason I make this show, and I think you too, Mike, is we want to help people get motivated. to engage in that journey, you know, productivity advice is not to just make you a worker be.

It's allow you to really crack the code of your life and figure out what it is you should be doing. Yes. I remember, like, when I was, like, in my 30s, I was practicing law for like at that point, you know, 10 years. I was getting pretty good at it. It wasn't really, I knew there was a direction for me, but I wasn't sure what it was.

the idea of trying to figure it out to me seems so debilitating. Like, how do you even figure that out? And this is like kind of before the explosion of self-help and there was no YouTube or, frankly, internet. So you just didn't have the resources to help figure this stuff out. And that's why I'm so such a fan of these old Greeks as it was learning that stuff in college, going back to it and kind of decoding it from them. then applying it to my life that worked for me. But there's a lot of ways you can do that,

but you've got to do it. And if you're pursuing productivity through tips and tricks and think that if you learn enough tips and tricks, everything's going to get easy, that never happens. You know, you've really got to figure out what the purpose is, what the focus is, and then that all of a sudden you get the easy button that lets you to make, you know, good decisions. It makes it easier to say no and say hell yes to the right things. And then all of a sudden, you know, things start lining up for you. And that's why I call it a heroic journey. Yeah, I want to unpack something that you mentioned about the career, right? And you felt a lot of, I'm putting words in your mouth here, but felt a lot of pressure to make the right choices,

to do the right things, right? And I think that is kind of natural that, we feel we have to pick a path and we really got to pick the right one because if we're going to do something worthwhile, we have to stick with that for the rest of our lives. And that, frankly, is not true. So if anyone is thinking that as they're listening to this episode, you can change your mind about things. In fact, most people do. I just looked up the statistic. The average person will change careers three to seven times. in their lifetime. They'll change jobs 12 times. So the approach, I think, if you really want to do more of what matters, you want to live out your heroic journey, you want to leave your dent in the

universe, is to pick what you are going to do and to do it with gusto. Go all in. And then feel free to change your mind, change course. You had a career change. I had a career change. And I feel like there's a sunk cost fallacy that kicks in when you're considering, should I do this thing. And that isn't a factor that you should be considering. There are lots of other factors you should be considering. And that doesn't mean that every time you feel like, oh, I want to go quit my job and move to the woods and write the novel that you should do it. But the fact that you have spent a certain number of years going to school or a certain number of money, you know, you invested a bunch of money to get a degree,

that is a factor, but it shouldn't be the primary factor. And oftentimes we stick to what we know, what we're comfortable with, even though we're being called to go down a different path. And I'm hoping that by the end of this episode, people feel a little bit more emboldened to chase that calling when they hear it. Yeah. Although I would say that I'm not necessarily a proponent of the follow your passion argument. Me either. Yeah. Yeah. But I do think that, there is a place where you've got to figure out, you know, what is the best way for you to human and pursue that. The problem with so much productivity advice is that it doesn't get to the big question, you know, and because it's just so easy to talk about ways to, like I said,

answer email fast or whatever the thing is, whatever the trick is. And those are great. And the field guide I talk about that, like coiling rope. Like, the analogy I use throughout the book is a sailboat. If you're in a sailboat and you're out at sea, it's really good to learn to coil your rope fast and well. But it's even better to know what direction is north, you know, because if you can coil rope and run in your boat in a circle for the rest of your life, you're going to get really good at coiling rope, but you're not going to get anywhere. And I know this from personal experience. Like I said, I was successful. I just, I just knew I didn't really have it together. Like what, what I was doing.

doing. And even from the external side, it looked like I did, you know. And it took me going back and reading this stuff again and kind of putting together this idea of Aratea to like give myself a compass. And that's what you need. You need a compass. Exactly. You need to know what is worth doing. And you can define that for yourself. You don't have to just assume the definitions that even well-meaning people in your life are giving you. You have to do. You have to do. You know, define it for yourself. Otherwise, it feels off. But once you do, then that is what you use. You brought up the passion mindset. That same book that I shared the context for that quote from by Todd Henry, that's where he defined the word passion for me. And I will never forget this. Passion comes from

the Latin word pati, which literally means to suffer. So when people say follow your passion, a lot of times what they mean is go do the thing you love to do. wouldn't it be great if I really love making YouTube videos I could do that for a living well the problem with that is once you start doing the thing that you love to do you realize it's hard and it's not fun yeah and then you want to quit so really what passion is is something that is so important to you because you've got that compass and you know where you want to go that you are willing to endure the hardships to see that thing come to pass and that changes the whole the whole discussion that changes

changes everything, frankly. And it's funny, back when I was in my mid-thirty I was really into woodworking kind of before the kids started growing up. And I loved making furniture and the art of it, you know, designing it, coming up with something beautiful.

And I just did a couple projects for people that asked me to, like, build a cabinet for them or bed or something. And then I realized that working with clients, you've got to do what they want. And then all of a sudden you're on a deadline. And I very quickly realized that I hate doing that for work.

I hate it. And like to the extent I didn't really have ever any like fantasies of leaving the law to become some woodworker guy, furniture maker. But that would never work for me. But, you know, that's a passion. But it's not something I would ever want to do for a living. I think there's there's a lot to be learned here. but it's a journey that you have to take yourself on.

And it's a deliberate journey. And I think, speaking for my own self-experience, I knew it for like probably 10 years that I needed to do it. And I just resisted the idea of figuring out what my big guesses are because I didn't know how. And the thought of trying to figure it out to me was daunting. Yeah, it is not an easy thing. But that is also the point.

it makes it worthwhile. Yeah. There's a gap between your default person, who you are right now, and who, you know, your potential person, the person that you're meant to be kind of, I guess, for lack of a better word. And I think you kind of know in your guts if you're on the path of bridging that gap

or if you're just a drift. And if you're adrift, I think it's very, very tempting to fall into the productivity kind of sphere and look for ways to become more productive because you think that might help you bridge that gap. But I think the way to bridge the gap is to figure out the big guess. You can use the productivity stuff. But if that's you listening to the show, I completely understand I was there. And my advice is, you know, look for something to help you to figure out those big questions. Yeah, absolutely.

Do you want to unpack the whole idea of the hero's journey? Because that's actually like a 12-step thing that we're kind of loosely talking about in this episode, but maybe be helpful for people if we just kind of go through. These are the 12 steps and then hit on a couple of them. If you know them, I don't have them at hand. Yeah, I've actually got them up here. So I can talk through these quickly. the first step is the ordinary world, and that is the status quo,

hero's normal everyday life before the adventure begins. The second step is the call to adventure. And that's really what we've been talking about in this episode so far. That's an event or a challenge that disrupts the status quo, invites you to embark on a journey. The third step is interesting to me, though. This is actually part of the 12-step process, refusal of the call. So the first time it shows up, you're like, no, I don't want to do that. So you resist it due to fear or doubt or responsibility.

The fourth one is meeting the mentor. And that's a guide or a wise figure who gives you the advice, the tools, and the encouragement to step out there. Five is crossing the threshold. That's really when you step into the unknown and the real journey begins. The sixth step is test allies and enemies where you face the challenges, you form relationships, you find out who's on your side, who's not. The seventh step is approaching the inmost.

cave. So this is the central challenge. You know, you're walking into the lions den. Right. And then step eight is the ordeal where you confront in the definition. It says, your greatest fear or enemy. And often this is when you symbolically die and you are reborn through the experience. So it is a, what's the word I'm looking for? It's a catalyst moment, but it's also like, transformational. Yeah, but things are really going sideways at this point. Right. And then there's a reward, which a lot of definitions of this call this seizing the sword. You gain the prize, the insight, or the power. Then there's the 10th step is the road back. You begin returning to the ordinary world. Step 11 is the resurrection.

That's the final test where your transformation is proven. And then step 12 is you return with the elixir. You return home with wisdom, knowledge, or a gift that you bring to the world. That's the part about this, by the way, that's exciting to me, is that step 12. Because I want to leave a dent in the universe and I want to impact as many people as I can. And I recognize the way to do that is not to get a million people in a room and deliver a great speech. It's to sew into a certain number of people that I am able to sew into because I have a platform in their lives and give them something that they can then pay forward to somebody else and they pay it forward to somebody else and there's a ripple effect and then multiplication happens and then you look back on your life and, you know, I think it

would be awesome to be able to, when you die, look back and see all of the people that you have impacted and the way that you have impacted them because you don't see it in the moment, right? And that is the thing. It's not just about, you know, all the things that you're able to do while you're here. It's the legacy that you are able to leave. Very good book I read recently about this is from strength to Strength by Arthur Brooks. I think we maybe mentioned that on the show several episodes ago, but it's really about navigating that midlife crisis where you're like, what is this all for? My first exposure to the hero's journey was a series of interviews Bill Moyer did of Joseph Campbell. Joseph Campbell wrote the book on Heroes Journey and was very influential on George Lucas.

And in fact, if you watch the Star Wars, the original trilogy, it is the, it is the hero's journey. I mean, it just tracks 100%. And also Joseph Campbell was also the guy who said, follow your bliss, which you and I have already dismissed in this episode. But I do think that there's a lot to it. And I do like the idea of embracing it in this journey that you're on. And even though I was hesitant to do it,

you know, ignore the old Gen Xer here, learn from him. And think of it in those terms. I think by raising the stakes like that, it makes it more important to you, makes you more likely to be successful with it. How long did you struggle with your call to adventure? A long time. I mean, I mean, I practiced law 30 years before I became Max Barkie, which I think is the best incarnation of me.

Yeah. but I guess specifically I'm asking when was the moment that you knew I'm supposed to leave the law practice and how long was it till you actually stepped out there? I know you had Max Sparky on the side so it wasn't where you just

I'm going this direction I'm going to completely change and do something different. There was still a leap because you went you let go of the law stuff and you became Max Sparky full-time internet creator but I guess I'm really after it's like how long was that

incubation period. 15 years. 15 years? Yeah. I mean, I had, I, I loved doing this stuff. Like the thing we're doing now, like I left out of bed this morning. This is the, this is what I'm here for. But I had made a commitment to a lady at an altar.

And I had two kids that needed to eat and get educated. And to me, that was always job one. So in a lot of ways, I didn't even give myself permission to consider going further with this stuff. And, you know, so I had been practicing almost 30 years. I mean, if you look at my education, it was over 30 years. But it wasn't until kind of late in the game that I decided, okay, now I get to kind of, now I get to give myself this opportunity. I think you could argue I waited too long.

I think I could have pulled it off much earlier if I'd wanted. But I don't really regret it. I feel like my life has been a journey and I'm here doing this today because I did all of those things. And that's part of the story. And I can't, you know, I couldn't go back in time and unwind any of it because I don't know where I'd end up if I did. Yep.

That is fair. And that's a real thing. I struggle with that sometimes because in one sense, I'm still trying to build things. By the way, minor, well, not minor, it's a pretty major milestone that I achieved this last week. I hit one million YouTube views. Congratulations, Mike. Yeah, thank you. But my YouTube channel is fairly new.

I've been building it for like a year and a half. And every once in a while, I get that thought as like, what if I had started? doing this right out of college. If I hadn't gone and joined the family business, and even after I decided I didn't want to be a part of a family business anymore, you know, I was being room to take it over. And I basically decided I don't want to do this because I would rather have good relationships with my parents and my siblings than take over the business and walked away from it, didn't really know what I was doing, started writing that led to me joining Asian efficiency, made stuff there. And at every step along the process, I tried things that I didn't

really want to do initially. You know, I didn't want to be a writer until I got this idea to write a book. And then I'm like, well, I guess I better learn how to write if I'm actually going to do that. So I started writing, publishing. That got me connected with the Asian efficiency team. I joined that team and then did, you know, one-off projects, then did part-time, then eventually full-time. While I was there, I started doing webinars. I hated doing those live webinars. I was all freaked out by that. But I did it. And I was like, actually, you know, that was scary, but it was actually a lot of fun. I felt like I connected with people and I helped some folks. Then I started doing podcasting and I was really freaked out by that because I don't know what the other person's going

to say and I'm going to have to respond to this. Like, can I think on my feet like that? I joined Toastmasters, started doing public speaking. Again, like the scariest version of the thing I could possibly imagine at the time, then I put myself out there and I realize if I'm in the room with people and I'm given this speech, I can see whether it's landing. And that actually is the most rewarding version of this for me. So at every step along the journey, I went through a door, you know, and then I entered a room and then there were other doors. And I was like, okay, now where do I go? And I basically chased the discomfort and found on the other side of the other side of the other side of the that that it was actually worth

doing. So I think my version of this maybe is a little bit different because I had no idea what the end state was going to be. I think maybe I still don't. Well, I certainly didn't either. I mean, when I started you know, Max Barkie,

it was a little fun thing I did on the side. I had no idea it was going to turn into an alternative career. And, you know, that's just that's the fun of it. But I guess one of the themes we're talking about today is this is a process that transforms over the course of your life. And, you know, by figuring out your yes right now, it gives you the passion and the, you know,

it gives you the gumption to pursue it. But it does change over time. And that's cool. You know, I mean, another thing we've talked about in the show is the idea of transformation. And every seven years, all of our cells regenerate. We're a different person. And you don't know who you're going to be in seven years, but maybe it won't be who you are today. And that's okay, too. But the point is, you should spend today doing what you're meant to be doing today.

Yes, that is why you need a compass and not a blueprint. You don't need to know the whole plan. You just need to know which direction you're supposed to go and what the next step to take is. This episode of the Focus Podcast is brought to you by Gusto. Payroll, HR benefits, simplified. Get three months for free, go to gusto.com slash focus. As a new year begins, a lot of us are trying to get our business operations together.

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first payroll. That's three months for free at gusto.com slash focused. One more time, g-U-S-T-O-com slash focused. Go check it out and let them know you heard about it here at the Focus Podcast. And our thanks to Gusto for their support of the Focus Podcasts and Olive Relay. So you decide to go on this journey. You've got to figure out how, you know, what does that mean for you? And both Mike and I have different approaches to this. And I think everybody in the sound of this podcast probably ultimately has a different approach for it. But let's just talk about what we do.

Why don't you go first, Mike? Yeah. So I have what is called a life theme. And the way that I arrived at this was I was listening to the Mikes on Mike's podcast back in the day with Mike Schechter and our pal Mike Vardy. And they were doing their words for the year. And I was like, that's a cool idea. I'm going to start doing that.

So I did it. And then Mike Hurley and CGP Gray were talking about their yearly themes. And I liked that idea, but I didn't really like the year time frame. A big thing I do is the personal retreats. It's loosely based off of the 12-week year. But the whole idea is you take those yearly goals, you compress it down to a quarter, you make progress, and you get four feedback loops. You can reflect at the end of that quarter and figure out whether that was worth it,

make adjustments, figure out what's working, what's not working, and I've got a whole process. And a planner, actually, that goes through that. but I didn't I didn't want to take the yearly themes. So I compressed them down into this is what I'm going to do for the quarters. But then

as I do stack those quarters, where does that lead me? So then I don't, I still don't do the yearly stuff, but I thought, what if I extended this out? What if I picked a theme for my life? And that's basically what the life theme is. It's a one sentence personal mission statement. I've got a

five-step thing that I I've boiled it down to because that's the way my brain works is like, how did I get here? And then I show it to other people because I'm like, this is awesome. And I've got a whole cohort that my wife and I actually lead on that inside of the library, my paid community. But essentially, what that life theme does is it creates for me the motivation to show up every day and take consistent action on the things that are important and the clarity to cut the things that aren't. The way that I use that life theme is it's a single sentence and whenever I'm

unsure of what to do, I ask myself, does this thing that I am considering fit with this life theme? And my life theme is I help people find their why, multiply their time and talent, leave a bigger dent in the universe. So everything has to connect to that. If I don't see a way that it connects to that, then it's an automatic no. Now, sometimes I feel this thing could potentially connect to this. And then I try it. And I realize, you know what, this isn't really a fit. That's basically what happened when I was working with the digital marketing agency. I got excited about helping good brands sell great products that are going to transform people's lives. I could see how that was actually fitting into that. But it didn't pan out the way

that I thought it would. But all of the screencast stuff I do, all the productivity stuff I do, really it connects back to this and this is my motivation. It helps. me help people figure out what is most important to them or do the best they can with the resources that they have and leave a bigger dent in the universe. And thinking about that is exciting to me. Whenever I get stressed out or I get frustrated and I feel like I'm not making any progress, I go back to that life theme and I think about that and that creates the energy to keep going with the things that I am doing. but also it's a filtering mechanism, like I said.

I'm considering this every quarter as part of that personal retreat process. So occasionally, I'll look at this and I'll look at my core values. We've got family core values. And I also have personal core values. My personal core values are show up every day, progress not perfection, permanent beta, create don't consume, and everything is figure outable. And those are kind of like guideposts. They're boundaries, but in a good way.

They eliminate options, but they also open doors to things. And I give myself permission to edit these and change these every time I do one of those personal retreats. And occasionally I will do that. That's not my original life theme, but it's a more exciting, more pointed version of it. You know, so it's evolved over time. But really the motivation is the thing I'm after with this. And that's a great compass. Yep.

And that's the point. it is a compass. So it's saying generally go this way. But the exact path that you take to get there, you know, it may meander a little bit. And that's okay. You just need to remember that you're moving in this direction. So in the cohort, I actually talk about this story of when I took my kids to a corn maze when they were little because it's this huge corn maze. You get in the corn maze and you cannot see where you are going. That's kind of the point is you get turned around and you're like, am I ever going to get out of here? But then in the middle of the maze, there's this platform that you could go up on. And we got up on the platform in the middle of the maze and we could see

the exit. And there's this big oak tree in the distance by the exit. So when we got back down into the corn maze, I was able to see the oak tree. And generally, okay, we got to move towards that tree. If we're moving away from it, we're moving in the wrong direction. And occasionally, you know, we go to the left or we go to the right, but eventually it straightens out and we're generally moving towards that oak tree. That's what the life theme and the core values are for me. Generally go that way. Yeah. I mean, mine's not much different really. When I was in college, I ended up a political science major, started out engineering, weird path. But I knew I wanted to be a lawyer at that point. I wanted to become a good writer. But I wasn't that interested in

politics. You know, a lot of people in political science want to get into the racket, you know, That wasn't for me. But we had like a subspecialty in the major called political philosophy. And nobody took it because everybody said that the professor was too hard and cranky. And I met him and I liked him. And he kind of took more of a kind of a traditional educational path where he would assign you specific reading and we'd talk about it. And he was very demanding with your writing, which was exactly what I needed at that point in my life. And so I got exposed to the Greeks early.

I mean, we also went forward, Thomas Aquinas, John Locke. We went, you know, we went the whole path. But the Greeks in particular stuck with me, and this professor saw that in me. So he would give me extra reading in those areas. And the things I liked about them was that they were asking questions that still haven't been answered. So it's an interesting, I don't know why, but that is attractive to me, like the idea that, throughout the history of humanity, we have all asked certain questions and tried to find answers to them. And in fact, as part of the productivity field, last year I went and did a bunch of research.

And I found in every religious tradition, there are people and prophets who have asked these questions too. This is not unique to the Greeks, but because that was that early exposure for me. And back then, they had a term called Arete. And it was kind of, like the pursuit of the virtuous life, you know. And they were really looking at a holistic basis, and that was always something that was a block for me. It's like, how do you figure out if you're a good person overall? And they never really answered that, at least in all the reading I did. And so it was an interesting concept for me. But then when I got into law school, I got a scholarship. And the scholarship was contingent on me being in the top 20%.

of the class and I came from a family to have any money. I really needed that scholarship. So I decided to use the term Aritae. Then I wanted to be the perfect law student. So my measure of each day was not, you know, did I do the best thing you could do to be a law student today? You know, it was the process, process focused, you know, effort, not results kind of thing. And it served me well throughout law school. I stayed in the top of the class, kept my scholarship. But then I just kind of left it there. And it was in the mid-30s when I started kind of coming back to it looking for guidance. I said, well, what about that R&T-thing?

And then I started realizing over time, well, what if I took it in terms of each role in my life? Because that's what seems, at the time, Joseph Covey, there were a lot of people talking about stuff. But a lot of it was like kind of the project was the bottom of the pyramid. Like, you know, you've got to figure out the most important, like write your novel, you know, whatever it is that you need to do, that's the focus. And it felt empty to me. So I felt like the roles ultimately were what got me excited. My role as a husband, as a father, as a lawyer, you know, and even the roles towards myself. And so then this honestly took years to evolve. But

it turned into an idea where I decided, I'm going to take each role in my life and I'm going to try and become define what the best version of me that is and pursue that. And that's really what that is. It doesn't boil down to one sentence like yours. Mine is more, you know, in each role I have things I want to pursue. But it is the grand filter that you're talking about. Like when someone asks me to do something, you know, I got asked to join the board of directors of one of my old clients recently. And it doesn't fit in any of my roles, you know. It would be a time commitment. It would help him out. It would probably be kind of interesting to be, have a little hand on the tiller of that company. but I, it doesn't fit, you know, and I don't want to adopt a new role board of director member for this company. And so I said no. And that decision was real easy, even though, you know, he offered me money. It seemed like a good idea. It'd be nice to help out an old friend.

But no, it doesn't fit. And like that was really easy for me. Whereas before I kind of figured all this out, I probably would have taken it just because it sounded like an interesting opportunity. And then that would have been one more distraction in my life. And that's kind of my quest, you know, is like become the best version of yourself in each role. And then when you put all that together, you truly are finding virtue in Artae. And the side benefit I've discovered in this is that when you're pursuing the things that are important to you, honestly, with integrity, ethically and every day, the side benefit is happiness. For me personally, you know, this isn't a promise I can make.

but I'm so much happier now that I kind of am living the life I was intended to live. So there's a lot of good things about it. But you've got to figure that quest out. Yeah. And mine is very similar, I feel, to yours because the identity piece is very important for me as well. The life theme is sort of an extra step that I've taken where I find it's helpful to force myself. to try to condense this down into a single sense. It's really hard.

That's the last step of the process. But the second and third steps are number two is dare to dream again. So just think bigger because we're kind of conditioned to think small. We try things. It doesn't work. And that like puts a lid on our our thinking. It's like, well, I tried that once. It didn't work.

So I better not try that again because it might hurt. Now I remember this story that somebody told me one time about they caught these grass hoppers and they would put them in these jars. And at first the grasshoppers would try to jump to get out of the jar, but they hit their head on the top of the lid. And then eventually they're conditioned not to jump. And at that point, you can take the grasshopper out of the jar and it doesn't jump to safety, even though it now can. So I feel like the circumstances in your life maybe have created temporary lids that can stick with you the rest of your life. And that just, the idea of that is appalling to me. It's like, I have to try.

I have to see what I am actually capable of. And then the third step, once you start to, you know, take the limits off and think as big as you possibly can, you know, then it's create an image, create a, a picture of what a day in the life of Future You looks like. I've got a version of this, which I have my eulogy, and it talks about the legacy that I left and how much money I've donated to causes I believe in and how many books I've written. all those kinds of things. How many people I've helped craft a life theme for. But as a, the process really is, you know, you diverge and then you converge. And so the life theme for me is the natural

convergence of all of this thinking is if I'm going to boil us down to a single sentence, what does that look like? And then that is helpful for me because I don't know about you, but my personality, I am very driven, go, go, go, got five kids at home. So we're busy to begin with. And it's very easy to get sucked down into, well, this needs to get done, this needs to get done. This needs to get done. And then I'm like, I hate the fact that I quote unquote have to do all this stuff. This sucks. You know, there's got to be a better way. And so I need that one sentence thing where in the moment, I can just be like, what my life theme? Okay, yeah. You know, and then make the decision and move on. The ruthless cutting of options is what keeps me sane. So that's how I do that. But the

identity really is the key piece to this. You got to know who you are and who you want to become. And they're not necessarily the same person. But that's at the top of that that PKM stack framework that I'm literally teaching right now in the practical PKM cohort. There's a week of that, which the top layer is the identity. That's your vision and values. And then that acts as the filter for everything else that you engage with. And that's what works for me. So that's what I teach other people to do. it resonates with them. But that identity, what it does is it completely flips the script. You're no longer responding to the information that's before you. Because prior to getting clear on this, prior to having the compass, you feel like the fact that you're not where you want to be is an

information problem. I don't know the right thing. And that's where all of the standard productivity advice comes in. It's like, well, if I could just do what I'm doing faster, more effective. efficiently. Then my life would change for the better and I'll have the time to do the stuff that I really want to do. That's not how it works. You got to begin with the end in mind and you got to flip that that foamo where there's something out there that's going to be valuable for me where, you know, when you're clear on your vision and values, there's a term jo-mo, which is kind of cheesy, but I think it fits here. It's the joy of missing out. You know, you know what resonates, you know what's in alignment. And so all the other stuff that's out there, you feel totally fine being like,

I'm going to let that go. I'm going to let that go. I don't need to follow the news. I don't need to watch that. I don't need to listen to that. I don't need to read that. I know what I want to focus my limited time, attention, and energy on. And nothing else is going to steal from that. Amen. You know, the hero's journey. So once the quest is accepted, once you decide what it is and you outline it, heroes face trials. And that is real life. I mean, just because the hero's journey is in Star Wars and you know that a script was written to make sure Luke Skywalker has a happening, you don't get that guarantee. You've got to get past the resistance. I think one of the biggest things I've learned teaching this now a few years is the inner voice problem.

I think a lot of people have that inner voice that is preventing them from pursuing their hero's journey. I mean, it's just, it's, it's a, it's a force of nature, I think, for folks. And I think it's a really, it's a very difficult. We could do a whole show on it. But it's a thing. And you've got to be aware that it's there and it's not always right. In fact, it often lies. And it's something that you're not alone and facing.

And you're going to have failures and setbacks. You know, that that is part of the journey. and that's okay. Yeah, I heard somebody say one time, and I really like that they said, your setback is the set up for your comeback, but in the moment it doesn't feel like that. You have to have that long view

and believe that the end of this story is good. It's easy when you're watching a movie and you're just being drug along with the story, and there is a happy ending at the end, but when you're in the middle of it and, you know, Darth Vader is hauling away, Han Solo and the carbonite. Yeah.

Like, I don't see how this is going to work. It's easy at that moment to be like, forget this. Let's go back to what we know. Yeah. Go back to safe nothingness. Yeah. You know, you brought up the inner resistance, and I think that we probably should do a whole show on that.

But it occurs to me that the trials that we face, there's really a couple different types. There's external resistance, and then there's internal resistance. Yeah. And I think maybe the external resistance for me is the one where, oh yeah, I can totally see that coming. I expect that. But the internal resistance is the one where it's like, whoa, didn't see that coming. And that's the one where it can knock you

off the horse. Yeah. And yet it's been knocking you off horses your entire life, but you don't see it coming. That's what makes it such an interesting concept. Yep. And I think, honestly, the external resistance is much easier to deal with if you have an effective compass. Like, I can tell you, when I told my family, not my immediate family, they were 100% behind me, but when I told my extended family, hey, by the way, I'm going to stop being a lawyer and do this internet thing, I got plenty of external resistance, you know, but it was very easy for me to handle it because I knew what I wanted and, you know, it's my journey. The inner journey, that is definitely more tricky. Yeah, absolutely. You know, the thing with the external

stuff is you feel like you have control over that, but the internal stuff you feel like you don't. And that's not true. You know, I remember Jim Rohn sharing three questions, which I love, who am I allowing to speak into my life? What effect is that having on me? And is that okay? The third question is the key? Because is that okay basically implies that you have the ability to turn down the volume on those

voices, like your extended family who thought you were crazy, you know, those are well-meaning people who love you and want the best for you, but they don't understand your compass. They can't see which direction it's pointing. And so they're trying to do what's right. They're trying to help you out, but it's really counterproductive. You got to be able to recognize that and turn down the dial a little bit. But the internal ones, it feels like, well, this is just the message. It's the propaganda that's being piped through the speakers and you just got to sit there. and endure it. Also, like the hero's journey, you need a mentor and you'll find them.

If you pursue this fellowship, mentorship, I think that's a necessary ingredient for you to make this journey and you need to reach out and be actively looking for those people. Yeah. So personal story here. Reason that I am here, honestly, was when I was embarking on my initial hero's journey. I started a podcast called Bookworm and somehow you started listening to it. And every once in a while, you would send me a nice email. And it would basically be like, you know, you described this situation, just wanted to encourage you, you know, keep going. You got this.

And that helped me so much in that journey to the point where now I am very cognizant. I'm trying my best to be very intentional about this, to pay that forward. So when I go to Mackstock this summer and I meet folks who are like, oh, I listen to your podcast and I was this way too. You're like kind of starstruck, right? You're meeting your internet heroes. I'd go out of my way to be like, hey, come have dinner with us, right? Come hang out with us and try to sew into people. And again, that is very much in alignment with the life. theme where if I can in the next hour, two hours, even a couple of days, you know, if we're at a conference, then if I can, during that limited time that I have, impart something that is going

to stick and is going to have a cascading domino effect of virtue in this person's life, I'm going to take that opportunity. And the big thing with taking those opportunities is recognizing when they're there. It's very easy to just get caught up in everything that I have to do. and while I got to jump from this thing to this thing, that's what I have to battle with that. But yeah, you don't, the thing as it pertains to the, the mentor is emerging, right? If I don't create that podcast, we don't get connected.

If I don't put myself out there, the mentor does not appear. So it can be scary where I want to do this thing, but I don't know who's actually going to help me. And there's so much that I don't know, that does not matter. Once you take the step, then the path becomes clear. then the people show up and the universe provides the aid that you need to follow through on your heroic journey. Yeah. And, you know, it is the journey. I mean, that's really the point we wanted to make today that I think if you embrace this as a heroic journey, you can probably

have a, you'll have a better chance of finding your best self. And so even now, I'm describing it with a bunch of qualifiers, which is not true, but it's just like my nature to not want to get so deep. I always tell people, oh, I'm going to get hippie now. And I get a lot of people write me to say, stop saying that because you're giving good wisdom when you say that stuff. But, you know, the Gen Xer in me has trouble like getting past that. And I think it held me up. I think that's one of the reasons why it took me so long to figure it up. Yeah. So the big encouragement, I think, from both of us, we're going to summarize the takeaway from this episode would be don't let it trip you up.

If you're hearing the call, heat it. I think we'll just end right there, man. That's too good. We are the Focus Podcast. You can find us over at Relay.fm slash Focused. Thank you to our sponsor today, Gusto. And thank you just as much to our supporters, DeepFocus subscribers. today we're going to be talking about, I don't even know how to, how do you pronounce this, Mike,

Mike's Jola Boka Flood. Yola Bocafloid. All right. I am in. I want to know what this is about. So we're going to be talking about that today. It's a Christmas book flood. All right.

We're going to be talking about that today in deep focus. And I hope that this show resonates with you and gives you something to think about. Have a great day, everybody. I'll see you next time.