Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Christmas Part 2 • President Bonnie Cordon • December 22 - 28 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: December 17, 2025

President Bonnie H. Cordon continues to share powerful experiences from her years in Church leadership that testify of Christ’s hope, healing, and confidence in the rising generation.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTS English: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC252EN French: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC252FR German: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC252DE Portuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC252PT Spanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC252ESALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTESfollowHIM website: https://www.followHIM.coYOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/er8ubbO5YHMFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookBook of Mormon: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastBMBook WEEKLY NEWSLETTER https://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletter SOCIAL MEDIA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTIMECODE00:00 Part 2 - President  Bonnie Cordon03:28 Why Jesus Christ needed to be human04:42 Emmanuel06:31 Personal experience with Church leaders10:36 Teaching and learning to pray11:40 God changing the world with babies14:37 President Nelson discusses capacity16:46 Tanner and the soccer game19:11 Remebering our testimony22:04 A diagnosis and Stewart on a cruise27:02 A woman’s wish for a family30:28 I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day34:05 “The Three Levels of Christmas"37:19 A message for students 40:53 The answer is always Jesus44:30 A righteous father’s influence 46:08 A testimony of Jesus Christ carried across a generation 50:55 End of Part 2 - President Bonnie CordonThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsAmelia Kabwika: Portuguese TranscriptsHeather Barlow: Communications DirectorSydney Smith: Social Media, Graphic Design "Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Welcome to Part 2, Christmas with President Bonnie H. Corden. When they came out with the Living Christ, I love the author of that, or the person who drafted the first one, and then we had all 15 apostles and prophets at the time, sign it, was President Nelson. In one of his talks, he said, much like when he said, I urge you to study the living Christ, he said, I urge you to devote time each week. Then he says, for the rest of your life, to increase your understanding of the atonement of Jesus Christ. When the prophets and apostles say, I urge you, there is a little level of intensity that goes up. What does it look like then for Bonnie in my crazy world to study and understand the atonement? Every Wednesday, I try to

study with a lens of the atonement. I realized that the living Christ, whole document is the atonement. It was an aha to me, but I'm sure for everyone else are like, welcome, Bonnie. That's how it is. What was really fun is at first I thought, well, it calls out, doctorly, the atonement in three spots in the living Christ. Then I started to take each sentence. How does this apply to the Atonement, what does this mean? Oh, I have 14 different references to the Atonement, and then I would look at another thing. I'm like, oh, I've got 15. And then 16 and 17, you know, now I'm like 29, 30, and I'm like, okay, the document is about that glorious gift of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to us. It was a study. So that's an invitation. Take the Living Christ and see what does it look like

through the lens of the Atonement. Even if you just take the last one, we bear testimony as duly ordained apostles that Jesus is the living Christ, the immortal son of God. He is the great Emmanuel, who stands today on the right hand of his father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world.

His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. So you say, okay, if you just took that one paragraph and broke it up, what does it look like if you think about the Atonement? Jesus is the living Christ. Christ is not merely a historical figure. He is alive. And because he lives, the Atonement continues in power, reach, and effect today.

The resurrection sealed and completed the Atonement, proving that Christ overcame both physical and spiritual death. And then you look at the scriptures that go with it. Alma 7, which I love. We love Alma 7. He will suffer pains, afflictions, and temptations, so he may know, according to the flesh, how to succor his people. Then 2nd Nephi 9, 12, and this is just on the Living Christ, because of the Holy One of Israel, the resurrection of the dead becomes possible. Because he lives, his power to forgive, heal, redeem, strengthen, and change us is ongoing. It's not confined to the past. Then you talk about what's the next statement,

the immortal son of God. How does the immortal son of God have an atonement connection? Now, you guys are the scholars. I'm going to ask you, how does the immortal son of God have an atonement connection? It makes me think of Abedadai

and King Benjamin. They both taught that the Savior was both human and divine, that he had a divine side to him so that he could endure the process of an atonement. When I was younger, I thought, well, of course it's easy for Jesus to do the right thing. He's half God. It wasn't until I really studied the book Mormon that I found out, no, he's half God. Not so he can have an easier life. It's actually so he can have a harder life. When I read that

word immortal, son of God, my mind goes to him volunteering to be both human and divine so that he could endure more pain than any other human being. I love how President Christofferson pointed out, John 316, you can hear like the whole plan of salvation in there, God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. There it is right there. Whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life, and he gave a son, and Jesus gave himself.

He offered himself as a sacrifice. Yeah, I love Alma 3410 where it says it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice. To go to the next, he is the great king Emmanuel. So what's the atonement connection with that statement? He is the great King Emmanuel. The Isaiah prophecy was a child will be born and his name will be Emmanuel. We have these three birth prophecies in Isaiah 7, 8, 9. It sounds like perhaps the first,

birth prophecy is perhaps Isaiah's own son, a prophecy to the king of Judah, and then the next chapter is a prophecy to the people of Judah. Then Isaiah 9, we sing that one, don't we? Unto us, a child is born, unto us a son is given. The government shall be upon his shoulder's name shall we call a wonderful counselor, and my God, the everlasting father, the prince of peace. That sounds like the king Emmanuel. And then, Hank, somebody pointed this out. When we did the New Testament a year or two ago, the last statement in the book of Matthew, though I am with you always. That's Emmanuel, God with us. It starts out with the prophecy of Emmanuel in Matthew, and it ends with Emmanuel in Matthew. It's just amazing to see the living Christ speaks to the

Atonement, even at the very end of gratitude God be thanks for the matchless gift. President Oakes has said our most important resource is our testimony of the risen Lord and His atonement. He is central to the Father's plan of salvation. He is the light and life and the only hope of the world. He is central to the restored gospel. It is remarkable. I'm grateful that a loving Father in heaven let us understand more and more about the Atonement through the Living Christ.

Bonnie, as I'm looking at the names on the bottom of this Living Christ document, there's not too many of them still with us, only three. Dallin A. Jokes, Jeffrey R. Holland, and Henry B. Iring. I think our listeners would be interested in your perspective on these apostles and prophets. For five years, you spent time in the hallways. What would you tell our listeners about your interactions with these special witnesses? Because to some of us, their names, and we see them every six months, what's it like to see them on a day-to-day level?

I'm grateful for that opportunity. It actually was seven years, seven years that I got an opportunity to be with them, two years in primary as a counselor to Sister Joy D. Jones. Then as the young woman's general president, I don't know if there's exact words except they're better than what you even see on TV. Our prophets and our Sears and revelators are truly remarkable men.

I remember the first time that I had a chance to meet with, before I was called, Elder Holland and Elder Razbant and Elder Christofferson, now President Christofferson. They asked if I would come and meet with them. I had no idea. I thought, why do they need to talk to me? We had served our mission in Brazil. I was a stake young woman's president. They came and they asked me random questions that I thought were random about the youth, which was wonderful to talk about the youth. Then they asked me what I knew about primary, or just some insights about primary. And I said, I haven't been in primary for years. I've got nothing for you. So I'm sure they weren't very impressed. What I saw in their eyes was how much they knew about primary, how much they knew about young women's. these prophets, Sears and Revelators, they know so much.

I was privileged to sit on the missionary executive council for five years and learn at the feet of Elder Uckdorf and Elder Cook and then be so involved with priesthood and the family department. I was so grateful for the Temple Department. I sat on the Board of Education. Every interaction was sacred. One that really stood out, and I think it's already actually been on this show, going to tell it again because I think it really was important. Steve Lund and I got a little

invitation that we needed to report on FSY. FSY had been going for one year. We had done a lot of work on it and the first presidency wanted to have our return and report. Elder Uckdorf went with us to be there with the first presidency. We went into the north boardroom and it was quite sacred when you realized you had the first presidency sitting there. Elder Ucturf on one side and then Steve and I were seated on the other. We gave our presentation that we had. Then we answered some questions. I remember that President Irene had some thoughts and questions.

And then President Oakes asked some thought-provoking things that we hadn't thought about that we reported on. Then there was a lull. Elder Uppdorf realized that it was probably done, and he stood up. So Steve and I quickly stood up to leave and I thanked them. And then the prophet leaned forward, President Nelson at the time, and he said, teach them to pray. So we heard and sat back down because we realized, hey, this isn't over yet. And to whom you pray?

He went on to tell some pretty tender things about the importance of prayer. I remember sitting there thinking, I'm hearing a prophet testify most earnestly of what I need to be involved with in my calling. I just testified that these great men are called to be prophet Sears and Revelators of Christ Church because Christ lives and it was really humbling to leave, walk out. And Steve Lund was here on our campus and he was giving here at Southern Virginia University and he was giving one of the forms and we were talking about that experience of being in that boardroom. And Steve asked me a question, he said, did we do enough? to teach them to pray.

I don't know if we did. I hope on this podcast we can ponder, what does it look like to pray? And I think the Savior, as he was in the Garden of Gassimony, it says that he prayed more earnestly. What does it look like to pray to our father and what will we receive as we learn how to pray?

I have so many sweet stories. Some are funny. Some are a little embarrassing. But I loved the opportunity to rub shoulders with these great men, especially during COVID. I remember many times getting a note from Elder Uckdor, Brazil is shutting the doors. We've got to meet as a missionary executive council. How are we going to get them out of Brazil? So many great stories of how the Lord so abundantly opened the eyes of his apostles and prophets for what's happening right now on the earth.

There's a quote. You may have heard it from a gentleman. It's Frank W. Borham. He's an English Baptist preacher, and he was speaking of events during the Napoleonic Wars in the early part of the 19th century. He said men were following

with bated breath, the march of Napoleon, and waiting with fervish and patient for the news of the wars. And all the while, in their own homes, babies were being born. But who could think about babies? Everybody was thinking about battles.

In one year, between Trafalgar and Waterloo, they're stolen to the world a host of heroes. In 1809, Gladstone was born in Liverpool, Alfred Tennyson was born in Sumsby Rectory, Oliver Wendell Holmes made his first appearance in Massachusetts, Abraham Lincoln drew his first breath at Old Kentucky. Elizabeth Barrett Browning was born at Durham, but nobody thought of babies.

everyone was thinking of battles, yet which of the battles in 1809 mattered more than the babies of 1809? He goes on to say, we fancy that God can only manage his world by big battalions, when all the while he is doing it by beautiful babies. He says when a wrong wants writing or a work wants doing or truth wants preaching or a continent wants opening, God sends a baby into the world to do it. That is why long, long ago, a baby was born in Bethlehem.

God uses that same pattern. When you think about the living Christ and who signed it, I have a question. Consider the year 1940. What was happening in 1940? 1940 was World War II. There was the Battle of France. France was being placed under German and Italian occupation. The German forces invaded.

Netherlands, we were thinking a lot of battles. Then you wonder, what about the babies in 1940? Do you know some of those babies that were born in 1940? One of those babies signed the Living Christ. Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, born in December 1940. Two other that we also say our apostles and prophets, Elder Dieter F. Ergdorf and Quentin Al-Cook. It's interesting when you say, how was it? I was working with great men and great women that the Lord put down to this earth so many years ago to help his work move forward. President Nelson gave a devotional to the youth, and he told him, he said, you are among the best the Lord has ever sent to this world. Then President Nelson said,

you have the capacity to be smarter and wiser and have more impact on the world than any previous generation. Now, he didn't say they are smarter or they are wiser or they will have more impact. He did say they have the capacity. I see these young people walking the halls of Southern Virginia University, and I think, who are you? What type of capacity needs to be increased

for you to do the mission you came to do? you think about what the Lord needs in order to move his work forward so that the Savior can come again. It truly is remarkable what he has said. And I think about the great people that walk the halls of the church, I think about the great young people that walk in the halls of every university, walking the halls of every high school, every junior high, because Elder Nell A. Maxwell said something that you all know and love.

He says, the same God that placed that star in a precise orbit millennial before it appeared over Bethlehem in celebration of the birth of the babe has given at least equal attention to the placement of each of us in the precise human orbit so that we may, if we will, illuminate the landscapes of our individual lives so that our light may not only lead others, but one. them as well. It's a sweet time that we live in that we get to work, link arms with our Savior and his restored gospel. That was a beautiful segment. Oh, battles and babies. Yeah. I don't know if we can improve on that, Hank. You've all heard that one. I haven't. I was thinking Joseph Smith, 1805, all those in 1809, wow, I don't know where we go from there. That was really beautiful. Thank you. As you were talking about these young people, it made me think of a grandmother who told a story about her grandson, who was the goalie of a soccer game. The game was pretty exciting, and no one was watching Little Tanner trying to defend the goal. Bonnie, you said you looked over, and Tanner had become distracted and began weaving his left arm through the various holes in the net.

Then he did the same with his right arm. Next, his left foot, then his right foot. And he was fully entangled in the net. And then you said he had forgotten his purpose and what he had been entrusted to do. Then you gave a great lesson on, we all occasionally get distracted and then caught in Satan's net. I've always loved that story because the young people you're talking about, these are such good, good, pure souls. They're a lot like Tanner.

They don't realize sometimes they're getting caught in the net of, technology, almost entertaining themselves to death. Yeah, fully distracted. President Nelson was so succinct in his words. He didn't throw out words just to throw out words. When he said you have a capacity to be smarter and wiser and have more impact on the world than any previous generation, you stop to think about who are these young people that are actually on the earth right now. You can see why the adversary is so anxiously engaged in doing those things that would distract them, if nothing else, just to distract them, so that they're not even building their capacity. In Doctor and Covenants 138, I think it's fascinating. In 56, there is a verse there that gives us a glimpse of what the pattern that our Father in Heaven does for each one of us,

which I think can give us hope as moms, dads, aunts, uncles, everyone who's working with youth and youth themselves, that we have exactly what we need to be part of this great work. John, do you have that? 138, verse 56. Even before they were born, they with many others, received their first lessons in the world of spirits, and were prepared to come forth in the due time of the Lord to labor in His. his vineyard for the salvation of the souls of men. What stands out to you there, John?

Before they were born, they had their first lessons. What did somebody say? We don't really gain a testimony. We remember it. Yeah, that's good. Why then have a veil of forgetfulness? Maybe some of those things and those talents and all of the things that we had in the pre-earth life come with us. There's that yearning, that understanding. Anything else, Hank, in there, that stood out to you? I think the sense of, I came here with an assignment. Sometimes I wonder if our young friends think,

why did I come here? Why am I here? That verse says, no, no, no. There was preparation for an assignment. John, what does the young men's theme say? The young woman says with a divine nature and eternal destiny, and the young men says, are beloved sons of God, and he has a work for me to do, which I love that. Imagine the opposite.

I'm a beloved son of God, and he's wondering if I might make a contribution at some point. No, he has a work for me to do. I'm on assignment. And isn't amazing that he says, prepared to come forth in the due time of the Lord? We weren't prepared to come forth during the time of Noah, nor Moses, but we were prepared. but we were prepared, and our young people were prepared for this time. The Lord knew that there would be AI. He knew that there would be cell phones.

He also knew we as parents, aunts, uncles, friends, neighbors, bishops, that we would have the resources that we need to move forward. I love that it's all for one purpose. Labor in the vineyard, this is my favorite part, for the salvation of the souls of man. When I was trying to decide what to do as far as this opportunity to come to SVU to be the president, I needed to be home and clean my closets, just to be honest. After seven years of being in a general officer space, I thought,

I just need to stay home. As I took it to the Lord, I was overwhelmed with what the Lord saw. He said, there will be great miracles. You can be part of them or not. and the miracles will happen in my vineyard for the salvation of the souls of man. Why would I not want to link arms with the young adults and the youth that are coming up as they gather and bring others to Christ? It is a remarkable season that they get to come and be so anxiously engaged in helping others know Christ.

I have complete confidence in our youth. I have complete confidence in our young adults and what they're doing to help the world know that Jesus is the Christ and that He lives, and that His atonement is for all. You were in this last paragraph of the Living Christ. It says He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. I thought of the opposite of those, that we have people listening who feel dark and empty and hopeless, unhappy. they don't feel like they're on their way to eternal life.

I've noticed that occasionally we think someone like President Bonnie H. Corden has never seen difficult times that I've seen. I wanted to remind everybody of the last talk you gave in General Conference. You told this story. You said in 2011, I was serving with my husband in Brazil. My phone rang. It was my father. We mentioned earlier, a member of the 70 at one point.

Unexpectedly, his voice was filled with emotion. Hi, Bonnie, I need to tell you something. I've been diagnosed with ALS. My mind swirled with confusion. Wait, what is ALS? Dad was already explaining. My mind will stay alert while my body slowly shuts down. You talked about your whole world shifting.

And then he said, Bonnie, never give up an eye. opportunity to testify of Christ. And then you go on and give this incredible testimony of Jesus Christ. As I come back to this last paragraph, he is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life. None of this guarantees me easy times. He is the light, the life, and hope of this world. It sounds like I'm going to need him because it's going to be dark and hard and hopeless and unhappy. What would you say to our listeners who want that? That's a great comment, Hank. I truly believe he has the hope and the light and the life.

Sometimes a world is messy. Sometimes it's dark. You know, when dad said never give up an opportunity to testify of Christ, I have thought about that because sometimes life is just hard and you think, What am I testifying up today? When the prophet said, teach them to pray, as you get on your knees and you're praying, even though you don't feel like praying and you're in a dark space, to make a list of things that you do know, and that you help others know Christ in anything you do know, in good. What is good? He went about doing good.

I was on a cruise ship. We were enjoying some things, so this wasn't a messy, this wasn't a hard. But a little boy, his name is Stuart. I won't forget his name. He was probably seven. Stuart came up, and this little boy has had some hard things. He said, my mom has passed away. I'm like, oh, my, Stuart.

He came up, and he said, excuse me, do you know where the bowling alley is? And I'm like, I don't think there's a bowling alley on this ship. He said, oh, well, my name is Stuart. And Stewart proceeded to unpack his little world. Stewart said, my mommy passed away. But he turned with full hope and confidence, and he looked at his grandma who was standing there. He said, this is my grandma and this is my little sister.

Then he went on, worried about this bowling alley, and I couldn't give him any direction, and I turned to walk away. And the spirit very gently said, testify of me. And I thought, He's seven. I don't know, Stuart. And he said, testify of me.

I got on my knees, held his little hands, looked at his grandma, and I said, Stuart, do you know your family loves you? And your mom loves you? And he said, yes, Miss Bonnie, I do. And I said, Stuart, do you know that Jesus Christ loves you? And he said,

Yes, Miss Bonnie, I do. As I cut off my knees feeling a little bit ridiculous, the spirit then testified to me, Bonnie, you needed to remember that. It wasn't for Stuart. It was for you. Sometimes in our lives when we're just either busy, busy, busy, with good things, busy, busy, busy, with hard things,

to come back and know the Savior. I think it's interesting where it says in the living, Christ. He will rule as king of kings and reign as Lord of Lords. This applies to us. Every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before him. I know life is hard. Loss, jobs, it's a hard time even right now. There are sticky things in this world. But I hope we don't wait till the very end to be able to speak and worship before him. Just a little note, I was with a young woman who had her whole life been in foster care.

And her whole dream was to be adopted, to have a family. She wanted a family. At age 16, she was adopted. For whatever reason, I don't know, the family gave her back to the state. So at 17, she was pretty broken. She didn't know what to do, and she was at one of the youth justice facilities

to be placed with another foster family. That's where I met her. And I sat down and I introduced myself and learned of her story. She had named herself, Hope. And I said, Hope, what do you want? I thought for sure she would say, I just want a family.

That's not what she said. She said, I want to know. I matter to heaven. I want to know that Jesus Christ loves me and that he knows me. I want to hear the voice of the Lord. I said, Hope, did you know I get to hear the voice of the Lord every day? And her brown eyes got really big. She flipped her hair around, and she's like, what?

And I said, you have some scriptures? She said, no. And I said, hope grab the scriptures she said well where would I grab some and I was trying to figure out where we could get her some scriptures and I don't even know who was there somebody who was listening as they do all of a sudden handed a book of Mormon to us and we sat down and we started to read the book of Mormon now we know what's the first part of the book of Mormon I Nephi having been born of goodly parents and I thought this is not a good way to start

this discussion. She sat intently listening. And I said, Hope, this is where you get to highlight, write questions, circle, put notes. This is your scriptures. You're not doing this for anybody but you. Write down where you see God. Write down what's important to you. How do you feel? I said, when you do, you'll find that you will hear the voice of the Lord through the scriptures and you will see places that it stands out to you. Spend time with the Lord. Well, I got a little note. So this was like on a Thursday. I got a note on my desk on Monday morning. It was from Hope. And she said, President Corden, I just want you to know, I've heard the voice of the Lord. It is the faith, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, faith to move forward. Just as we talked,

it's the simple thing that he taught. Just have faith in me, trust me. Sometimes trusting him is hard and it doesn't make sense. Sometimes it's overwhelming and it looks so different. Our path looks different than our neighbors. To see the Lord is such a personal thing, we write down even where we see his fingerprint. We may not see the hand of the Lord. Maybe we can only see his fingerprint like I can breathe today.

But he loves us. I brought a story today that I'm guessing both of you have heard. I don't know why. I didn't know this story. John, I bet you already, it is the story behind the song, I heard the bells on Christmas Day. Oh, the Tabernacle Choir did a whole production on it. It is incredible. Okay, I want to hear. I want to hear. The story is about the author, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. He wrote this poem, which eventually became the hymn.

It was a time of national division, the Civil War. As well as personal loss for Longfellow, his wife, Fanny, had died when her dress caught fire. Henry tried to put out the fire by smothering the flame with his own body, but it was too late. He's so burned, he can't go to her funeral. Then two years later, his 18-year-old son Charlie left home and signed up to serve in the Union Army. On December 1st, 1863, Longfellow was having dinner with his family when he received a war telegram stating that his son Charlie had been severely wounded in battle. It would result in paralysis and would face a very long recovery. On Christmas Day, in 1863, Longfellow, a 57-year-old widowed father of six, the oldest of which had been paralyzed as his country fought a war against itself.

wrote a poem, seeking to capture the dynamic and dissonance in his own heart, and the world he observed around him. You both know the lyrics, but I'll read him here. I heard the bells on Christmas Day, their old familiar carols play, and mild and sweet, their songs repeat of peace on earth goodwill to men, and in despair I bowed my head. There is no peace on earth, I said. Hate is strong and mocks the song. of peace on earth. Goodwill to men. Then rang the bells more loud and deep. God is not dead, nor doth he sleep. The wrong shall fail. The right prevail. With peace on earth, goodwill to men. Then ringing, singing on its way, the world revolved from night to day. A voice, a chime,

a chant sublime of peace on earth. Good will to men. Bonnie, he is the life and light and hope of the world. I love that. That little nativity that we did as a family growing up, there was a last little piece in our narrative that taught me a little bit about Christ that has been sweet. It says, Here then we conclude the known history of Christmas.

All else that is added is man's homemade invention. But with it all, the most important thing still survives, the spirit of peace on earth, goodwill toward man. Never at any other season does the peace come closer to universal reality, not far from us, surrounded by his legions of heavenly host. This same Jesus works today toward the time when he will come again to the earth. It will be a glorious day, perhaps much nearer than we think, and when it arrives, men will call it the millennium.

A Christmas season, a peace on earth, that will last 1,000 years. The backstories of each of our hymns is sometimes much more profound than you even imagine. You think somebody just wrote a poem. There's a life experience behind it. A long time ago, when Church News used to have editorials, and the Church News is online now, a man named William B. Smart just wrote a quick little essay, very short, called The Three Levels of Christmas. There's just some profound thoughts in there. He referred to the first level of Christmas as the Santa Claus level.

That's ho, ho, ho, and Christmas trees and stockings and presents and Rudolph, the red-nosed reindeer and everything. And he said, you know, our lives would be emptier without that delightful first level. But he said there's another deeper level. He called the second level of Christmas the silent night level. That's the story of the birth of Jesus in Luke 2. that's the shepherds, that's the wise men coming with gifts. We get to sing silent night. Then he made this great statement, he said, but there's some who want to keep Christ in the manger. The baby Jesus did not remain a baby. He grew up. The third level is the Easter level,

the resurrected Christ. That's what this document is all about. We would not be here talking today if it weren't for the third level of Christmas. That is that this baby came to do what Isaiah prophesied he would do, that he would suffer and die for all mankind and conquer sin and death. That's where the joy of Christmas comes from. One of the things I've loved doing as I sing Christmas carols in church is to go, that's level two, that's level three, that's level three. heart the herald angels sing glory to the newborn king peace on earth and mercy mild god and sinners

reconciled whoa that's level three that's the atonement of christ as you read the hymns watch for level two and level three you'll notice that joy to the world the lord jehovah the lord is come let earth receive her king it you're you're going okay there's level two and level three and all of these work without level three. Oh, I love that. If all Christmas told us was that a baby was born in Bethlehem, it would be truly beautiful, but truly not enough. Really, the power of Christmas is that the baby in the manger became the Savior in Gassimony and the Redeemer on Calvary, and that the living Christ of the empty tomb. I know how he's walked with my struggles, and sometimes it's been, it's in the silence that I actually see the Savior,

the silence of I'm not hearing him answer directly, but I see him place people around me. In that silence, I realize that he did answer my prayers. And it's usually always different than I think it should be. I have it all outlined how he should answer. It never gets answered that way. It's so frustrating. It's so much better.

How does it be frustrating and better all the same time? Bonnie, I'm sure like I do, you see discouraged students. They worry about the future. They don't let on that they're worried about the future. They smile and laugh. They listen to their music. But when you can get their attention, I say, how many of you are pretty worried about having a successful marriage?

Because they see marriages dissolving around them. And I say, how many of you are scared to raise kids? They almost all raise their hand going. This world is a pretty difficult place. like we said earlier, they were born for this. What's your message to your students there at SVU? Thank you. I love that, because I love walking the halls with them,

and I love asking them, what's your story? Tell me your story. And you're right, it is so different than what it looks like on the outside. As you peel back the laughter and the camaraderie, so many of them are struggling. I remember one time I had been here just a few months, and I was having some problems with my computer. A young student who worked in IT came in to fix it.

As he was fixing the computer, I love how the spirit works. I could tell there was something wrong. I looked at him and I said, are you okay? And he just broke down in tears. And he said, I just found out that my dad passed away. I said, what are you doing at work? And he said, I didn't know what else to do. To be there at that sacred space to talk about eternity.

to have an opportunity to talk and to listen and to mourn with him. One of the things that is the hardest for our students and this generation, and probably all of us, is we have smartphones that we try to use as the consoling, all-compassing help instead of turning to those that you know will help you walk this path.

And I think the Savior has been so generous to put people in our paths that we need to be present with each other. As we're struggling, I tell the students, collect friends. I want you to collect people. You're here to bless, not impress. And the more you bless, I promise they will turn around and in abundance bless you.

You will know the Savior. You will see Him, and he will be ever present in your life because you're there with them. Then I also say the simple things. Don't forget the primary answers. look in the scriptures say your prayers i said god's really good at calculus one girl said i never thought to ask as we're struggling with things i think we think our prayers have to be like this and the lord says be specific i am anxious that our young people become connected with each other connected with

the savior connected with things that actually matter what matters it's the good better best there's a lot of good things. There's even better things. If you can choose each day, the best things which is coming into Christ, that is that simple walk by faith, choose him. Best friend you can collect is the Savior Jesus Christ. Do you know him better today than you did yesterday? We have a lot of times many guests on our campus.

I have some students, anytime they're hosting, they come and we talk about what does it look like to host somebody. How do we help someone be a guest on our campus? Our students are really good. They're like, we know if it's a good visit, if they know Christ better than when they came. John, you visit with the same young people that Bonnie and I do. What do you tell them when you know there's fear in what they face?

The answer is always Jesus. We've been taught that, but maybe they want more specifics. I love the council that we learned earlier this year for Martin Harris. Learn of me, listen to my words, walk in the meekness of my spirit, and then this line, you will have peace in me. If we're seeking peace in popular opinion, if we're seeking peace in money, if we're seeking peace in distractions, we won't get it. You will have peace in me. He's the prince of peace. I'm amazed how often the prescription for so many things, not just sicknesses, at so many things, even temporal things, like I don't have a job. Are you reading the book Mormon? Are you reading the scriptures? How often

the spirit will enlighten your mind or give you ideas or things like that or just open you to other answers from the spirit. You know what? Section 50 says, continue in God. He that receiveth light and continueth in God receiveth more light. Don't discontinue God at the time of your sadness. Stay connected because he's got the answers. Sometimes I wish he'd answer faster. He knows how to best help you, and if you really believe he loves you, he'll give you the answer in the best way for you. You can trust him. You really can.

Yeah. One of my favorite scriptures is trust in the Lord with all thy heart. That is hard. It's hard to give your heart, something that we sometimes guard. Next, lean not to thine own understanding. sometimes in my world it should look a certain way so if the Lord doesn't answer

in the way I think it should be at times I don't think the Lord's listening I'm like I told you how I need to see it and the Lord's like that's not going to be how it is if I trust the Lord with all our heart and not have a prerequisite I guess for the Lord

it's amazing what he can show us but it's hard sometimes to trust it's one step at a time now I think I'm a lot like my dad where I say that is hard. Now go do it. You were born for this.

Remember what Joseph said to the 12? Now round up your shoulders and stand under it like men. I love what you both have said and I would say to our young adult friends, you can do this. It's inside of you. If you rely on him,

you're going to be okay. If they'll choose to stay faithful, if they'll choose to get into the temple often. they'll be connected with him, and they'll be okay. More than okay. They'll thrive. I love that. When we talk about the pre-earth life, we don't remember who we were or what we did in the pre-earth life.

No one does. We do know that the Savior remembers us, and we know that Heavenly Father remembers us. Why would we not put our trust into somebody who knows us better than we know ourselves? He knows all of those attributes, the qualifications, the talents that we came with, they will be magnified as we trust them

because they actually know what we can do. Like you said, get up and do. And the reason why we can get up and do is because the Lord knows we can do it. And he's right there to walk with us on this journey. Yes, it is scary. The world is a tough place to live, but you're tough people. You have divine help. Bonnie, before we let you go, not a lot of members of the church, I'm not one, John's not one,

who grow up the child of a general authority, especially a presidency of the 70. Can you tell us just a little bit about your dad and what that was like? That is such a great question. Well, when I was in his home, he wasn't a general authority. He was dad, and what was great is he always said yes to the Lord, even when it was, hard. He was an orthodontist. When the Lord asked him to be in a counselor as a bishopbrick, he said yes. He was a counselor in a state presidency. He said yes. He went to the temple. He said yes. He just, he did the everyday thing. We had a little Christmas tradition, dad and I, that we had

a little wager, whether it would snow or not. Most of the time in Idaho Falls, it was snowing. And so he would slip a little dollar under my plate. And if it wasn't snowing, I usually found a penny or two or a dime and put on his plate. He was a great man and he was my best friend. What I loved is he taught me that the Lord always comes first. He always said whenever you marry someone, you make sure that your husband loves the Lord more than he loves you and everything will be okay. It was not surprising. I was married at the time when Dad was called to be a general authority. But it didn't surprise me that the Lord tapped him on the shoulder because he knew he would always say yes. I was grateful for a man that loved the Lord more than he loved me.

I don't know if you remember this, Bonnie. The very last talk that Elder Harold G. Hillam, your father, gave in general conference, was in April of 2000. It's called Future Leaders. We talked earlier about how the Lord gives us little coincidences. The very last portion of this talk is from the living Christ, which had just been given just months earlier. I want to read a portion of that talk, and if you wouldn't mind, I'd like you to read the end. Here's part of what Elder Hillam says. He says, knowing about the Savior is a natural part of our religious education. Knowing the Savior requires personal obedience, prayer, a close to the Spirit and Revelation.

He's speaking to young people, just like you did, Bonnie, today. He said, you will be the teachers and leaders that will continue to establish the church throughout the world. You will want to look in the mirror probably periodically and remind yourselves of the great mission that lies before you.

May you stand straight and noble in your callings. I pray that you will learn to know of the Savior and have an ever-growing understanding of His atonement. I ask the Lord to help you throughout your life to join your testimony with those of today's living apostles and prophets who declared, and I quote, We bear testimony as His duly ordained apostles, that Jesus is the living Christ, the immortal son of God.

He is the great King Emmanuel who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the life and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of his divine son. To this I testify and witness. He was my best friend and it was pretty hard to have him go. I wish you had known him. You'd have enjoyed him. He played hard and he worked hard. Bonnie, thanks for doing that for me. I love the two of you testifying together as both leaders of the church. Johnny, we want to wish you a Merry Christmas out there at SVU.

If it snows, John will give you some money. What an underlieb paid. We have loved being with you. Thank you. It has been a joy. I mean, Merry, Merry Christmas. What a joyful time. Sometimes it's messy. Sometimes it's celebratory.

Hopefully it's a time of Christ. Yeah. I'm going to try to center our traditions. on the Savior this year. Like you said, I don't have to change them entirely. I can take the traditions of our fathers and point them towards the Lord. Well, I hope that my kids and my grandkids

and the students of SVU would say, God be thanked for the matchless gift of his divine son. I just hope that we can know Christ better today than we knew yesterday. Anyway, I'm just so grateful for great people that helped me know the Savior, like you did today. Thank you for teaching me about the Savior.

With that, we want to thank President Bonnie H. Corden for joining us on Follow Him. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen. Merry Christmas, Shannon. We want to thank our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen. In every episode, we remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. We hope you'll join us next week. John, it's time to read The Old Testament on Follow Him.

We're thrilled to share that our next episode begins our journey through the Old Testament. As a thank you to our wonderful listeners, we'd love to gift you the digital version of our book, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. It offers short, meaningful insights drawn from our past Old Testament episodes. Visit followhim.com. That's followhim.com to download your free copy today, and you'll also find the link to purchase the print edition. Thank you for being part of our follow-him family. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew.

David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Crystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Cabuica, Sydney Smith, and Annabelle Sorensen. Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. turn to him, follow him.