Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Colossians • Professor Lori Denning • Oct 9 - Oct 15

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

Through trials and faith, Professor Lori Denning explores the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and its capacity to make people more like the Savior.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/new-testament-episodes-41-52/YouTube: https://youtu.be/rXZlP5J8gFMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/15G9TTz8yLp0dQyEcBQ8BY00:00 Part II– Professor Lori Denning00:07 Background to Colossians02:32 The prayer or thanksgiving04:38 Colossians 1:3-806:22 The community of Saints07:56 Walk in Christ11:49 Baptism begins a new walk with Jesus15:41 Moments of emotional impact18:31 Hamburger metaphor23:20 Reflecting Jesus26:13 The hinge of the poem27:47 Colossians 3:1028:49 Becoming a new person in Christ30:09 Jesus changes culture (Onesimus and Philemon)34:12 President Nelson and labels and three enduring designations36:44 Paul instructs on personal improvement41:39 Welcoming one another back to activity42:10 Hank shares a personal story about letting old stories go46:03 Record and review personal progress47:00 Professor Denning shares her personal journey as a scholar and a disciple50:43 End of Part II– Professor Lori DenningThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignAnnabelle Sorensen: Creative Project ManagerWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Welcome to part two with Professor Laurie Denning, Colossians. There is another fantastic letter with yet another poem. What I want to do now is Colossians. This is one of the shorter letters. It's also what we call a prison letter. So let's do a little context to find out why I write the Paul's in prison yet again. A little bit different is Colossay. This is a little bit unique in that it's a short letter.

These are all fairly short. I know we're making them sound like they're long, but you can read them in about two minutes. But Colise is in what we would call modern day Turkey. And it's kind of central and it used to be a really big city, but it is quite small at this point. And even today, if you go, it's just vineyards. There's not even a building still standing and Coliseum say today.

So Paul never went there personally and he didn't start the church there. So he gets a letter from a guy, a pacifist, we'll call him Epi. He's from there and he's a member and he comes and visits Paul and present. And he's like, hey Paul, I wanna tell you the good news about these members that you've never heard of,

but they're doing so great, but they're little tiny, tiny, tiny. Now, there hasn't been a lot of excavation there, but we think there were about maybe three big homes, and you could maybe fit 15 people in each home. That's like less than 50 people. This is a very small branch, and they are kind of on their own. They don't have a big town.

It's interesting though that Paul's going to take the time. So he hears from a native son that comes and meets him in prison. He's in prison again. Sometimes they'll say he's in Rome because we know he was in Rome for a long time. But it might have been Ephesus, which isn't as far, 100 miles. Here's a report about what's going on there. One thing you should do, once we're going to notice, As far, 100 miles, here's a report about what's going on there. One thing you should do, one thing we're gonna notice,

he is so excited to talk to them and talk about the wonder and the excitement and the thrill of being a new church, of joining the church for the first time. This is a letter for all of us when we're like, I remember my convert days. I remember being a missionary. I remember when I sang the song of redeeming love, right? I'm gonna find. So I remember when I had those moments and he is so excited to share those with this little tiny church that he's never been to. This is the letter to Coliseum. One thing in

Colossians or any of his letters that we remember is that a lot of times it has a pattern. One thing that helps me is kind of understanding the structure. It usually has the little intro, sometimes called the prayer or the Thanksgiving, and that's the I-N-E-F-I, having to have more of friendly friends.

And then the other structure is often this. He's gonna do half of the letter on theology, meaning heavy doctrine, big points, big concepts, teach them something, and then the second half is application. If you're doing this in your own study and you're like, how am I supposed to put this with my family? You can kind of understand that structure, and as you understand the structure, you can say, big doctrine, big application.

He's going to do the same thing. So in the first half, he's going gonna try to talk about some big ideas. Now, these people, here's that theme again, coming in. If you were a new member, or we remember when we were new, or we've been less practicing in our lives, and we're coming back, and we're kind of feeling that new life,

little congregation of new converts, and Paul's so excited to tell him, but they're not really sure how they're supposed to do this new life, little congregation of new converts and Paul's so excited to tell him, but they're not really sure how they're supposed to do this new life in Christ. What am I supposed to do? How is this supposed to work? He is going to teach him about how to do that. I think there are times when we all feel a little bit new, where we don't feel like we fit in.

And there's this weird feeling like you're the only person that doesn't get it, but let me let everybody in on a secret. We all feel like that. We all feel a little bit like the imposter. We all feel a little bit like I'm not as good as sister, so and so. And I'm not as great as speakers, so and so. I don't know scriptures like so and so. Let me just disabuse you all of this idea.

You do not need to know ancient languages to understand the scripture. You do not need to know everything to be a good member of the Church. What do you need? Faith. Repentance. Baptism. We already have those things. You just come with what you're wrong.

If you've ever felt like that, this letter is for you. So let's jump in and find out what he has to say. Let's do one one three through eight. John, do you still have your other version so that you could read collections one three through eight? It's actually not very long. Chapter one verses three through eight. In the new international version, we always thank God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ when we pray for you because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love you have for all the saints. The faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have

already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel that has come to you. All over the world, this gospel is bearing fruit and growing just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth. This is again a letter to the new church. What's interesting here is he's going to include them in the greater community of Zion, the greater saints, all the church. And I love the way he says it. Again, we're gonna use this funny metaphor of fruit. He says the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world. Just as it has been doing among you,

since the day you heard it and truly understood God's grace. I love this idea that sometimes we feel like we're alone. Sometimes we're like, we're the only one, we get it, or we're not really sure. And I think we've all lived in places where we really are kind of by ourselves as members. We says, look, goodness, it's doing the same thing that it's been doing. It's growing just like it's growing in you. It's growing all around the world. I love the idea that the church is something international. We often hear it's like, well, people are not really excited about institutional religion, and Paul's saying the opposite. Paul is saying it is still growing, and it's growing just like it

happens in you, and it's happening everywhere. Excellent. And Laurie, I think he even says that sort of again, in verse 12, giving thanks unto the Father which hath made us meet to the partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light. We're all entitled to this inheritance, and we're all part of this group called the saints. That's powerful, isn't I think we are living a very individualistic society? We focus on ourselves, I'm like like what we're going to do and how we're going to achieve. And anciently, it wasn't true. And it really isn't today, although we fool ourselves that it is, we're part of this bigger community. Out there is this community of

saints, this community of people that believe and are striving just like you are. And it's like, it's your inheritance. Don't forget that you're part of something bigger. And I love the idea that we're part of something bigger anciently. And in the future, across time, not just around the world, that we're reading this 2000 year old text. And I'm like, yeah, that's just like me. And hopefully some thousand years from now, someone's reading ours and going, no, that story is Hank. That is really profound. That is just like me. Don't feel like you don't belong because you're part of the inheritance of the saints. Let's jump over then on that same idea because he's going to introduce as we become this new people, as we're learning how to do all this, he's going to go in chapter 2

and I want to run to 6 and 7 and he's going to tell us kind of what we do. run to 6 and 7 and he's going to tell us kind of what we do. Okay, I'll go back to the KJV. As you have there for received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walkie in Him, rooted and built up in Him, and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. I love this. As you've therefore received Christ, Jesus, the Lord, walk, give in him. This is now your new life. This is the way you're going to get out there and you're now a new person. You will walk in him.

If I'm thinking this is a new life and I'm thinking I'm learning how to do this differently and I'm with this community of saints, what is walk in Christ? I think it's answered down below. Do what he would do. Strive to anyway. You know, Elder Uttar Pradaf, this verse, Colossians 2.6, his question is, how do we become true disciples of Jesus Christ? And then he says, the Savior himself provided the answer with a profound

declaration, if you love me, keep my commandments. This is the essence of what it means to be a true disciple. Those who receive Christ Jesus walk with him. That's the Colossians quote. He goes on to say, but this may present a problem for some because there are so many shoulds and should nots that merely keeping track of them can be a challenge. Sometimes, well-meaning amplifications of divine principles, many coming from uninspired sources, complicate matters further, diluting the purity of divine truth with man-made addenda. One person's good idea, something that may work for him or her,

takes root, becomes an expectation, and gradually eternal principles get lost within the labyrinth of good ideas. Later on in this same section of his talk, he says, because love is the great commandment, it ought to be at the center of all and everything we do in our own family, in our church callings, and in our livelihood. Love is the healing bomb that repairs rifts in personal and family relationships. It is the bond that unites families, communities, and nations. Love is the power that initiates friendship, tolerance, civility, and respect. It is the source that overcomes divisiveness and hate. Love is the fire that warms our lives with unparalleled joy and divine hope. Love should be our walk and our talk. When we truly understand what it means to love

as Jesus Christ loves us, the confusion clears and our priorities align. Our walk as disciples of Christ becomes more joyful. Our lives take on new meaning, our relationship with our Heavenly Father becomes more profound. Obedience becomes a joy rather than a burden. Amen. That was awesome. Two things. The next verse is exactly where President Thorough went next. Paul says, but where, less than a man, spoil you through philosophy and vain to seed after the tradition of man and after the rudiments

of the world and not after Christ. It seemed like he was describing like where you take a good idea and then President Thorough says, and then you like pylon and then you over apply it. And you're like, that was a good idea, but it really wasn't the gospel. I think we're all probably a little bit like that. We're just bombarded with really great self-help and things online.

And we're like, I can do that. I can do that. That's a good idea. And they're not really Christlike. They're not in Christlike. But the second thing is, yeah, it's so many things that how can I follow all the commandments? But he's like love loves the big commandment and that's the guideline and you can love this Christ loved and then you're on the right track That's exactly right the contemporary English version of that same verse eight

These arguments may sound wise, but they're only human teachings They come from the powers of the world and not from Christ. I think that takes us perfectly to a transition of one of these main points. And that's chapter two, verse 12, and he's going to use one of these really powerful symbols of what this means in this new life. If we learn how to love and we've learned to kind of distance ourselves from these teachings of the world, he's going gonna remind us of what our new life is. Let's go to 12. I'm reading it in the NRSV,

he's reminding them that you're introduced into this new family, this walk with Christ, this family of the Savior. And he says in 212, when you were buried with him in baptism, you were raised up with him through faith in the power of God who raised him from the dead. We're in a new life. I like that because I need visuals and I need simple things. My baptism renewed in the sacrament of the Lord's Supper every Sunday. I died

like he died. But I also have a new life, my new life in Christ, this new walk with Christ. I'm a new creature. I'm a new thing. I can do that and I can follow him. When I reflect on the sacrament, I think I'm not just reflecting on his sacrifice, which we did in Philippians, so well, but I'm also reflecting on my new life. I'm like him. Philippians so well, but I'm also reflecting on my new life. I'm like him. And I like that a lot that I died and I'm reborn as something new in him. Excellent. Yeah, that's what I thought when you asked the question, what does it mean to walk with him? And part of that is, first 12, be buried with him in baptism and risen with him. And we talked about that in Romans. The Romans 64 verse were buried with him, walk ye with him. I put in my margin section 19 verse 23, walk in the meekness of

my spirit. And this is such a good question. What does that mean exactly? And in verse 7, there's an in him. And verse 9, there's an in him. And verse 10, there's an in him, verse 12, buried with him in baptism, which reminds us what we talked about in Romans. We're buried, let me go to it exactly. Therefore, we are buried with him by baptism into death that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we should also walk in newness of life. The symbol of being baptized going down under the water like a symbol of death and then we're risen with him. Kind of a do what he did thing and that's exactly what these collusions have done. They were buried with him in baptism and now trying to walk with him. I like that. And I like that he keeps bringing it out

to this new life, this new walk. And then he brings it out that we're part of something bigger. We're part of this extra community that he talks about. I don't think Paul is telling us that we should just not follow the commandments. He's not saying, you don't need to follow those things. Just love. But as we start our new walk in Christ,

like you said, John, is we're kind of born. We leave our old things behind. We're now following him as our new Lord. So we don't think about kings very much because we don't have many of them left in the world. Then they did. It was like, if you're following your king, that's kind of your guy you're following. But we do have something that we do a lot is that we have stuff that we really align with. It could be our football team. It could be our college that we went to. It could be our political affiliation. And we align ourselves there first and what Paul would advise us in this new death

and new birth, you're now following him. And in this new walk, you follow him first. You are Christ followers. First, you are members of the Church to do Christ the latter. They say it's first in a way that that's what's supposed to guide you. You have to leave that other stuff behind or and he's going to go on quite an example here in a minute, but he's going to talk about how we take our in a minute, but he's going to talk about how we take our lives and say, now, how do I do that then? And he's going to kind of teach us, again, how we're going to do this walk through Christ. And in a typical fashion, he's going to go

back to teach us more about the Savior first, and then he's going to apply it. Since we're doing another poem, I want to highlight a couple things, again, how to read these poems and why they're important. The most impactful and emotional things in your life. Let's start with good ones. Let's say, away from the bad ones for a minute. Good ones, birth of a child, graduating from school, falling in love. Can you think of anything like that and then are there any favorite songs that go along with those? Anything that's the most impactful moment of your life is something that hit you really emotionally.

There's something about something emotional and something hard to describe that works really well in poetry and song. Laura, I finally thought of one. It's when I very first touched the Western wall of the old temple. So some of my favorite examples are in Luke. The beginning of Luke is like a musical. And when Mary finds out she's going to have baby Jesus, and she's so excited that the Messiah is finally coming, she sings a song.

We call it the Magnificat. My soul is magnified by the Lord. She burst out into song. Similarly Luke also has another song when Zachariah finally, you know, he's found out about John the Baptist, his baby boy after being older, Miracle, and he is mute and then they say, what his name gonna be and they say John and then he sings a song He just burst out in a song, but one of my favorites is the loop two story The angel comes to the shepherds and it's like hey the Messiah is finally born born to you this day in a manger and the skies tear open with what? Glory to God in the highest. In these moments of profound spirituality, it isn't just emotion, but it's emotion, it's

big ideas, and it's maybe the only way to really understand them and take something that is hard to understand in your heart and in your mind and everything together is with song, is with poetry. The reason that we find so much poetry and scripture, even if you can't see it in King James, is because it's taking those same things, where they're hard to explain, where they're spiritual, and they're deep, and they're challenging. Let me let you know in one other little secret. The majority of times when the Lord speaks in the Old Testament all the way through the doctrine and covenants, not as Jesus Christ, but when he's speaking as God, it's in poetry.

The Lord is trying to communicate something profound, something spiritual, something deep, something multi-layered, something that's going to impact us in ways that it can't do if I just tell you a story and he's going to do it with a poem. So we're going to hit another song and Paul is going to try to say, I'm trying to explain something that's deep and spiritual and exciting and powerful. We'll make this song. Again, they don't rhyme in English, it doesn't rhyme like English, it rhymes in ideas. We'll have patterns of ideas. Let's try it. So let's go to Colossians, let's read this one. And it's one of 15 through 20. Remember last time we talked about the hamburger.

This one is a little bit different. It has one big section, 15 through 16. And it has two little sections, 17 and then 18. So it's like a really big bun, little slab of meat, little piece of cheese, and then another really big bun. So it's got big, little, little, big, and that helps us because what it's going to try to do is use the same kind of pivot or hinge in the middle, which is kind of these key ideas.

Instead of being a big hamburger, it's got a lot of bread, but the meat in it is really powerful. 16, 17 and 18 are the keys in the middle, and that's what we're going to do. You tell me this is a high-carb, high protein. That's a high-carb, it's all bread, it's a big something, I can't make that metaphor work anymore.

Yes, let's try. What he's going to tell us about here is, he's trying to explain the role of Jesus Christ. We're going to start this new life in Christ. We're walking in Christ. He's trying to teach us about him. So we understand what this walk is like. Now we've learned it's about love and we've learned about following the commandments. And now we're going to learn about him. Okay. I have the NRSV here, the new revised standard version, starts in verse 50. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For in him, all things in heaven and on

earth were created, things visible and invisible. Whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things have been created through him and for him. He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together. He is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the first born from the dead, so that he might come to have first place in everything. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven by making peace through the blood of his cross. So something powerful and profound going on with these two big sections, we were calling them the bread sections. There are two big sections, he's going to talk about Christ being in the image of God, and then he's going to go back and he's

going to use this idea who was in the beginning, and yet was the first born. When an author uses something like this, they want you to stop and they want you to sit with it and they want you to research it and ponder it and go for a long walk and really dig into it. This is something that you could spend a lifetime really pondering what each of these lines mean and how this reflects on the life of Christ, and then how this reflects on your life, as remember, you're now dead and now alive in Him. What I like to think of is, again, this has a lot of layers, meaning there are a lot of interpretations. The first interpretation is about God. This is going to tell us about God. The second, I think, is it's going to tell about Christ on Earth.

I think it's also going to tell us about us. And then it's going to also tell us about a community and how we live as in a community. And lastly, I think it's going to have a layer on what we do in communities with rulers who are not Christ. So it's going to be someone who would be, you're not following the right leader, because this is a lesson on how are we supposed to follow him? We're walking in him. So we're going to answer God. We're also going to understand Christ as a

mortal or send ourselves and kind of go on. As we go through that, that's where you can kind of just tease this out and keep going and keep going. Again, the middle is the core ideas. So verse 17 and 18, and I have a little different translation, but he is before all things and then all things in him hold together, and he is the head of the body, the church. He is the creator, he's everything. But I wanted to start on the first idea. The first idea, who is in the image of God, the invisible one, the first born of all creations. And here's why, the big ideas are complicated and sometimes I get lost in them, but when it's something that I can apply, I'm like, yeah, like that.

Here is a place that I think we can apply. We know we're created in God's image. And he's specifically here talking about Christ first, right? That he's created, he's like us. It reminds me of that very first Genesis story that we're created in his image. When you think of an image, the word that they used to use anciently was an idol, like an idol statue. In the middle of a temple or a building, they would put the statue. And that was the image. It is literally the same word. It's a pselem in Hebrew.

They would put that there. It would be the image of God. And he's saying, we don't have that in ours because you're the image. If you went to the ancient Hebrew temple, there's no person carving. There's no thing. Why?

Because it's you. You're the image of God. You are like him and everything when you worship or you represent something else You are kind of diminishing yourself and you're not really realizing where you are He's the first born and you're like him. You're meant to be a joint air and here's where it gets really interesting like him. You're meant to be a joint heir. And here's where it gets really interesting. Your role as his image is to go out in the world and reflect that out into the world so that there are little pockets of him everywhere. We love the temple, but we don't go to the temple because that is the only place that he can be. We go there so we can learn and then take it out. We can take the message of the gospel to everywhere. He was in the image and so are you. And you are joint heirs and you are supposed to go and tent the garden and take care of

it and you are him, you're his hands, right? You're in his walk. Go do what he would do. God doesn't want us to make any grave an image of him because, as Genesis says, he created man in his own image. Yeah. And how much more powerful is that is that if I am born in Christ and I am in his image, that I am his representative every day. So just like your president, Oedriff, quote, we are out there in love. We're out there spreading the good news just by what we do every day, being a little kinder, being a little nicer, sharing the gospel,

being a little more patient, right? We are his image. If he can't be here right now every second, well, could, but if he's going to make us do it, he's like, we'll go do it. Go walk with Christ. You are his image. And just like you follow him, you watch Jesus do all these things, and we've been standing in all new Testament. Now you know what to do? Go do the same thing. This reminds me of 3rd Nephi, one of the nicknames that Jesus actually shares with us like image, it sounds like is I am the light of the world. And then he says, I give unto you to be a light to the world. And then he says, so let your light shine.

And then I am the light that you shall hold up at what you have seen me do. That's how we take his image out. Kind of that parallel idea. That's a really take his image out. Kind of that parallel idea. That's a really great application of that. All right, back to the poem. That's the first idea that really jumps out at me. Let's go to that little section in the middle, the hinge. Again, let's start with,

he's teaching us about Christ so that we can understand our walk in him. So we understand him, so we can be like him. And it says, he is before all things, and all things in him. So we understand him so we can be like him and it says he is before all things and all things in him hold together and he is the head of the body, the church. This was all part of the plan. He is before all things and in him all things hold together. This was part of the plan from the Old Testament from the Book of Abraham from Moses. This was before the Foundations of the Earth, he even goes back that far. He says, before everything was created, Christ was there.

This was all part of the plan, which I think is applicable to us too. You were all part of the plan. And in him, you should boss, and he's in charge of the church. As long as you follow him, you'll be on the right track. And then it reminds us he was the first one to die, and through his resurrection, we will be like him, and we'll reconcile to God. You're never too far.

There's no sin so great that the Atomina of Jesus Christ can't cover, because he is God himself. In this new walk, follow him, you are in his image, and everything that he sacrificed is so that you can be like him. So, Laurie, we've seen the second poem here. So grateful we get to read biblical poems in him. This is fun. Where should we jump next? Let's jump to three and then let's go down about verse 10. So Colossians 3, 10. Laura, isn't this pretty typical for Paul to teach the doctrine and then say, okay,

here's how you're going to implement this. Yeah, here's what I want us to do. I want us to just see if we can pick out any practical things that we would do. So we're in chapter 3 verse 10. Hank, will you read that again in your translation? Colossians 3, 10 and 11 says, Clothe yourself with the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge according to the image of its creator. Again, this is the NRSV translation. In that renewal, there is no longer Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian,

schithian, I think that's how to Star Trek, slave and free, but Christ is all and in all. Yeah, I love that. Time for a story. I remember that after I served a mission, and we probably all have these in moments where we've been away from people for a long time. Come back and I kind of feel like how do I introduce my new self to like my old friends, my old high school friends, but yet he's made me something new. And so I have to put on that new person that I was. And so I think what

he's saying here is just exactly what a given me that advice, Lori, when you go home, you're the new Lori. You don't have to go to your old high school friends and be your old silly high school person. You can be this person. And you know, I don't know. I haven't put this on for very long. I'm not used to being new, Lori. So I kind of think it's this image of him. I'm trying to be more like him, but I'm not used to it yet. Good news. They loved it. They were like, Oh, that's great. I'm glad that you did a mission thing. That sounds really great. I was like, Oh, and here I thought, if you're critical, I'm glad you like the new me. But sometimes it is hard. It's hard to put on the new you. So I think that's

what he's saying. If you put on the new one, you're renewed in knowledge and after the image of him. And then he takes it a step further as always. Then we have to take it out into we aren't just the places where we were. We're part of a bigger family. We're not Greek or Jew. So it would be like, I'm not a B.W.F.U. fan or a Utah fan. I'm not just from Utah or California. I'm not just from North America or Europe, I am in Christ, in all and in all. We're part of a bigger family. So he's changing our mind. I want to show you how we apply this even more. He's going to talk about an old Roman family structure. He talks about what they're supposed to do and he gives all these instructions to each member of the family and that's really chapter four. So he's

going to take this idea of the new you and then he's going to say, what do I do with it? And he says, well, in ancient Roman culture, we've probably kind of heard of this. It's like the father is like the super-encharged guy at the Potter Familius. And he even had life and death for his family. He could decide. He could punish him anyway. He wanted to do anything. It was a very weird place. But he's saying now that you're not really Roman.

I want you to take this really thing that's just really in your society. And how do you take that new Christ-like thing and love and hope and put it into a structure that's already there? He's going to say this family structure used to have the dad and the dad had life and dad and the mom was kind of a servant and kids we didn't talk to him. I mean they were just like slaves and then they actually had slaves

and so he's like well what do you do? He takes a real life example and he says look, dads rule in love. Moms, you're ruling, you're giving yourself to be in this family, not because he's in charge, he's in his mean, but now because you're all following Christ. And the person you really follow is the Savior. So you're not just following this pothra familiar, so the structure that you grew up in, you're now doing this. And kids, obey your parents, not because you're just, they're mean to this and kids obey your parents not because you're just there mean you but obey them because you're in this new world and slaves You're actually brothers along with your masters and masters. They're actually your brothers

Yeah, that's what I'm telling you because you're all part of one big family and Then you know how he ends the letter. It's a big punch He says oh by the way And then you know how he ends the letter? It's a big punch. He says, oh, by the way, I got this guy with me. And he's a runaway slave. He says his name is onesimus. It looks like one of us, but onesimus. He was a runaway slave who became a Christian.

And his owner, former owner's name, Philemon. He got a whole letter about this and he says, can you actually apply this kind of new life where you were one in Christ before anything else? And he says, onesimus, I went, when he shows up to your town, everybody in Colise, I want you to greet him like a brother. Not a slave, not anything else.

And you guys, if he was a runaway slave, they could have imprisoned present in more worse. So it's bad news. And they said, no. As Christians now, you do something else. And then he does it again. He says, hey, fine, Lehman, former owner of Onesmas. You're just not an owner.

You're just not this guy that's whatever. He's your brother. And so when I send him back, he's your brother now. Can you imagine? Good luck, everybody. So I'm like, I'm gonna put this to the test culturally. I'm gonna send Onesimus back. And I hope that all of you can now see

that you are now one all in all and you have brothers and sisters in the gospel in Zion and you're one in heart and It's gonna be a little tidied times See if you can do it And that's when we answer letter good luck Yeah, Paul So he's telling us we live in a new world. We've been dead and arisen in him as we learn more of him We follow him as we follow him the As we follow him, the application is,

we're not that thing we used to be. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I reflect him and everything I do and every action, how I compare myself at work, how I drive on the road, how I shop. Everything I do is a reflection of him. See if you can do it. President Nelson back in, it was July of 2022 and I believe it was a huge young single

adult kind of fireside. What you said reminded me of this. What Paul was saying reminds me of this. He said labels can be fun that indicate your support for any number of positive things. But if any label replaces your most important identifiers, the results can be spiritually suffocating. I believe that if the Lord were speaking to you directly, the first thing he would make sure you understand is your true identity. My dear friends, you are literally

spirit children of God. No identifier should displace, replace, or take priority over these three enduring designations. You're a child of God, you're a child of the covenant, you're a disciple of Jesus Christ. Any identifier that is not compatible with those three basic designations will ultimately let you down. Make no mistake about it. Your potential is divine. With your diligent seeking, God will give you glimpses of who you may become. And that kind of relates back to that image thing. And some of these, he said they're not wrong.

They can be fun, they can indicate support for this or that. But if they replace the most important, and like you were saying, when you have that in your mind, you're different on the freeway. Yeah. I'm still working on that one, by the way. And I'm working on that. You guys, my business self and my church self have not quite merged, but I'm learning too because that's what Paul is teaching. That's where we're teaching us that they are the same person and all in all and first and foremost, I need to represent him even on the freeway. Boy, and for Paul to set this up that way so that they're all going, yeah, yeah, yeah,

agree. I mean, you can almost imagine Paul's, can I get name in? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Now, Onisimus used to be a slave. Now he's your brother. And you're like, if you'd started with that, let me have you practice everything you just said amen to.

I mean, that was kind of brilliant the way he set that up wasn't. He's a good guy. It was a whole separate letter. You're going to do that one. Yeah, that's coming. But he introduces him there in chapter four, doesn't he? He does. Oh, Nisimus.

Oh, and he leaves a hangin' a faithful beloved brother who is one of you. He says in verse 9. Just the brother. I always think like, good luck. Let's see how you do with your new test. You know, you're like, wait a minute, I didn't know there was gonna be a test on the end of this one. I liked what you said. I don't know if I really want to do it.

I really like when Paul gives lists of things we can do better. And he does this in chapter 3. Now I have my contemporary English version. It seems to be just on my same level. So this is what it says starting in 3.5, don't be controlled by your body. Don't be immoral or indecent or have evil thoughts. Don't be greedy. You must quit being angry, hateful and evil. You must no longer say insulting or cruel things about others. And you have to stop lying to each other. You have given up your old way of life with its habits.

You're now a new person. You are becoming more and more like your creator, and you can understand him better. It says, God loves you. So be gentle, kind, humble, meek, and patience. I like this. Put up with each other and forgive anyone who does you wrong just as Christ has forgiven you. Love is more important than anything else. It is what ties everything completely together. So that gives me a list of things that I can do better. Get rid of greed, get rid of immorality, anger. Don't talk bad about people when I am about those things. Yeah, don't lie to each other. Yeah.

I like that kind of the rattling off of things I can improve on. John, what do you think? I'm looking at verse 23. I'm still in King James over here. Glossians 3, 23. And what's whoever you do, do it heartily. And I guess that means with all your heart, the footnote topical guide says commitment industry,

do it with all your heart, my mind is strength, we might say. Yeah. As though you were serving the Lord himself. And not untimely. As though your life depends on it Yeah, and I think he always brings it back to the big idea that in the verse that you read Hanky He actually uses an interesting analogy of clothing

So he's like you lay apart your old clothing and you're putting on this new clothing So quit lying and now love each other put on your new suit and your new suit are these actions Verse 15 chapter three, I'm let the peace of Christ will in your hearts And now love each other. Put on your new suit and your new suit are these actions. Verse 15, chapter three, I'm let the peace of Christ ruin your hearts to which indeed you were called in one body and be thankful. And Lori, the example that you gave,

you know, for some people it's not that easy. They, they come home feeling like a new person and they want to be that new person. And that's why at the end of EFI and now FSY we're seeing it. It home with me. We want, you know, this is going to be hard because sometimes they want you to be that old person. So for everybody out there that's trying to put on the new, the new man or the new woman,

hold on to that because we have experiences that make us say, I want to do better, I want to try harder. And sometimes what's the old analogy? The crabs crawling out of the bucket, the other crabs keep pulling it down. They don't want you to. And I hope Paul can give us motivation to change what we can so that we can be that new person and put on that new person

and then take all this advice and do it heartily. Do it heartily go all in. I do think one thing that we can take consolation and he was writing to people 2,000 years ago and they struggled to do the same things and so were we. We're not I was going to get it and they seem to be I live in the poem. That was how it was all planned. We knew exactly what this was before the foundations of the world.

And Christ was set up because he knew that taking it home every day and trying these things and being nice in the freeway and just being a little better every day isn't something you're just going to get in one afternoon, but it's a lifetime. In fact, probably still not going to get it, but you'll be better for it. And he will be there along the way. Like, that's what he's for. And I think that's the big mentions of Colossians that we take this new life in Christ. We take the new clothing. We take this new focus on him. And we just keep using it. And he'll be there for us all along the way. And we as those that were in the congregation of an

Osemias have to be able to let them to not go, no, that's not you. So when we see somebody who's trying to give it a new start and put on that new person, boy, let's be there for him and encourage him and help him do that because I think that can be really challenging for them. And oh, let's help him because all of us have moments where we want to do better and be better, don't we? Yeah, and I live how he says it. Yeah.

He says brother. This is a brother now. And you're just going to give him a million chances. And you're just going to hold him close and say, it's not just some person that used to know. We're now brothers and sisters. There's just nothing tighter. And I like that John, give them a chance and hold them close. It hurts my heart to think of people who have been less active, people who have not been

coming. Boy, we've got a welcome them back with everything we've got and help them try to put on that new person if that's what they're trying to do. Don't you hear that from people that, now I can't come back because how would they see me? How would they treat me? Oh, we've got to be so welcoming. And just understanding, not bringing it up, we're hoping for that for ourselves, but it's sometimes it's hard to remember

that we're the ones who have some of the grief in our community. I'll be a little vulnerable here. I was once on a seminary faculty with a man named John and a man named Quinn. They're listening. They'll know who they are. Quinn and I were just the best of friends and we would poke fun to each other all the time. Well, there was this one moment where we had some new faculty come on and we were out doing a little retreat or something and I said, Hey, you guys, let me tell you a story about Quinn

And it was a story from a couple of years ago and John pulled me aside and he said I know you're being fun and I know you and Quinn are good friends But let that go Let that go don't tell that story anymore And I said well, it's a funny story, right? It's a funny story. And he said, I don't think he likes it. And I said, okay, I never told that story again. I think we could do that with people. I think we can determine that there's some stories that don't need to be retooled. Yeah. Next hang that that was a really good example. That was nice because you would come to the back.

I'm sorry, but I think I also think you know, because I was very pulled if you do that because you're the very kind man. But oh, that's powerful. I think I think it's exactly what Paul saying this new life in Christ, we're all going to need to pull together, we're brothers and sisters, and it's going to be hard. And we're not going to quite get it right. This new life is challenge.

I think of so many young men and young women who have come from a tough place and go on missions and it's a chance for them when no one knows them in the MTC and no one's gonna say, hey, that's not you, where they literally put on some new clothes and go on a mission and, oh, please let them change. And then when they come home, you have let them put on that new person because we all have to to do that some degree in some ways more visible than others. Aren't we each in our own lives kind of like

chapter four when Paul sends an SMS, he sends him back and says, all right, let's see how you do. Let's see how you do. And I didn't realize. And wouldn't it be great if all of us said, okay, what's my chance today? Yeah, to put in practice, everything that I've been taught here. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. Every day you have a chance to have an an SMS or a filename in moment. What am I going to choose to do in my new life? And you're like, oh, you know, it's easy for them. That guy, he clearly should have accepted that slave back and whatever. And now you're like, well, but in my own life, no.

If you haven't renewed your recommend for a while and you finally get that, you go back to the temple, they're going to say, welcome to the temple. If you're one of those that gets it renewed a month before it expires every two years, they're going to say welcome to the temple and they're just going to love you. We got to be like those readers. Just welcome back. I think it's always a testimony of the savior that comes back to the poem. It comes back to the lesson that that's what he does. He takes the woman caught an adultery. Where are the ionic users? I don't condemn you. He picks us up and he carries us in his arms and he says, head back out there and try again.

And he says, in fact, I'll go with you this time. And I think it's the message of Christ that we say, like, I'm never on my own. I'm never going to quite get it all the way, but he's always going to be there with us. And I am now like him. And I came reflect him out into the world. That, I think, is the core message that Paul there with us. And I am now like him. And I came reflect him out into the world. That I think is the core message that Paul is telling us. And he's not saying it's not going to be

hard, just like Onesimus and and a feeling, but he is saying, you can do it just like he did. As soon as the prodigal sun turns, Father runs to him and walks back with him. He'll be right with you. I don't know what you're going to hear from the townspeople as you come back into town, but I'm going to have my arm around you. I'm going to walk back with you. Amen. The Come Follow Me manual has a great suggestion. It says, record your thoughts about how the Savior is changing you so that you can review them in the future

and ponder how you are progressing. Wow. I made like a face like, oh dear, I better just progress. So, oh dear. So I can actually see some progression. Well, you know, it's like everything, these self-reflective moments are so great, but they're so hard.

And we look at these ancient people and go, that guy, you should probably do this. And are they so silly? Why did they choose that? And then I go, but oh, for me, well, I'm just way farther down the line on fixing these things and really understanding how Christ works with me. So I guess my message is, yeah, I'm gonna write those down,

but I'm gonna write, have a little grace with yourself. Give yourself a little of time because it's gonna take a while. Beautiful. Lori, this has been fantastic. I think you have endeared yourself to every follow-him listener out there. I think our listeners would be interested in a little bit of your story that you're pursuing this doctorate degree in religious studies in the Hebrew Bible, in all that you're doing,

and yet here you are, a faithful, believing, all-in, Latter-day Saint. Can you tell us a little bit about that journey? Yeah, thank you. I would love to tell that story. I do think there's some weird misunderstanding that as people will become more educated, they would become more jaded or find out something.

For me, it's kind of twofold. I think the first thing is that the more I study, the more I find the truths, just rebounding on themselves and building and just understanding it more and more. You don't have to know Hebrew to know about Jesus Christ. So, I don't want to mistaken anybody that somehow I know more or something. That's not it at all. But the more I study, I see patterns in these Hebrew scriptures, meaning in the Old Testament, and they're the same patterns that Samuel the layman uses. And then as I learn about the image of God, then I see that in doctrine of Covenants, and then I see it in my life. And so it's just like this rebounding giving back thing that the more I give it is my study and my effort. The more I'm like, wow. And so I absolutely love it. I love studying the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The second piece is that it helps me understand him better. I came to and I've shared some of that today, but know him. And he knew me. I understood the Savior in a way that I didn't know before. That is hard to express in academics or write in a paper or do in Hebrew or Greek, but I can't ever walk away from that. Can't walk away from those feelings and those impressions and the things that I know in my soul about Jesus Christ. I just want to follow him.

I mean, he is my guy. If he says to do it, I want to do it. I want to be more like him. And I want to do, where's he, what he says? I love Jesus Christ. And I could not leave him as much as he can love me. Once I've known him, I feel like there's something there that I just hope to be more like and more to understand.

That's what fuels me. As the techie part and all that is just icing on the cake to following him. I believe in him and I am his follower and that's my hope for all of us and I say that in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. Amen. What a great day. Never think of these two books the same way again. Thank you. You guys have been at Delight. We want to thank Professor Laurie Denning for being with us today.

Laurie, it has been fantastic. We want to thank our executive producer. We couldn't do a founder, Shannon Swanson. We want to thank our sponsors, David and Verla Swanson. We always remember our founder, Steve Swanson. And we hope you'll join us next week. We'll be into, that's Alonians on follow him. Today's transcripts, show notes and additional references are available on our website follow him.co. That's follow him.co. You

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