Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - D&C 45 Part 1 • Prof. Shima Baughman • May 5-11 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Can one person change the length of a prison sentence? Join Prof. Shima Baughman as she examines Doctrine and Covenants 45, the power of advocacy, and why being a “stranger” isn’t a negative trait.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC219ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC219FRGerman: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC219DEPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC219PTSpanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC219ESYOUTUBEhttps://youtu.be/gQQR_O4z9p4ALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTESfollowHIM website: https://www.followHIMpodcast.comFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTIMECODE00:00 - Part 1 - Professor Shima Baughman01:47 Background of Section 4503:11 Shima Baughman’s bio04:34 Come, Follow Me Manual10:03 Background to “plain and precious”13:07 One revelation for 1831 and 202516:26 D&C 45:1-6 - Hearken and a prison story20:34 A Peruvian harvest26:01 Arthur Brooks and Shima and her grandmother29:35 Shima’s family’s experience with imprisonment and conversion35:01 John’s favorite work: Advocate and a Tanzanian judge38:27 Malawi and 50 Cent41:37 Bail advocacy data and the power of love45:30 Advocacy is the power of Christ to change lives50:24 The Prodigal Son went to a “far country”55:12 D&C 45:11-15 - Enoch and external validation59:58 A child makes a diagnosis1:02:14 Strangers and pilgrims and temple visits1:05:55 Being made spotless and reminders from God1:09:32 - End of Part I - Professor Shima BaughmanThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsAmelia Kabwika: Portuguese TranscriptsHeather Barlow: Communications Director"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Coming up in this episode on Follow Him. I remember I was sitting on her lap crying as I typically did. I was known for that. She was comforting me and we had some men barge into the house with machine guns, basically opened the door without knocking or anything, barged in saying my mom was under arrest, my aunt too, and took them both. They were both incarcerated. They had 10 year sentences with no lawyer, no witnesses, no trial. They basically were told their charges. They weren't even supposed to speak.

My mom said something in response, but they said be silent. And then she was taken to prison. ["Pomp and Circumstance"] Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith, I am your host. I am here with my cohost John, by the way, who is in commotion and whose heart could

fail him at any time. John, that is Doctrine and Covenants 4526. Yeah. Let's be careful with you. Have you been to the doctor lately? Got your heart checked? I just need to breathe for a second. Okay, I'm good.

Alright, good, good. John, your heart could fail you because you are so excited that we have Shema Boffin here with us today. Shema, welcome back to follow him. Thank you. John, we had Shema here last year when we did True Crime in the Book of Helaman. Do you. John, we had Shema here last year when we did true crime in the Book of Helaman, do you remember? Yeah, our true crime episode. Our true crime episode. And today we actually

are going to lean a little bit on her lawyer experience as we talk about being an advocate. John, I know you love that title for the Lord. Shima, as you've looked at Section 45, what are you excited about? I wanted to start with some thoughts on the Doctrine and Covenants. This might be shocking, but what it has in common with Celebrity Gossip Magazine that I used to read. And then I wanted to get into the background of Section 45,

what was going on when Joseph Smith got this revelation, how it relates to our day. And then I wanted to get into some of the themes of section 45 as a loving revelation for our Savior that explains his role as our advocate. Three ways we can be better advocates. I want to talk about the harvest, what this means as we prepare for the second coming. I want to talk a little bit about Enoch and his role in guiding our spiritual preparation in the last days, how we can become strangers and pilgrims on the earth. I love that phrase. I also wanted to discuss three themes of the second coming that are throughout this section

as well as so many of the others that tie along with it, where there's discussion of physical destruction and warnings, our spiritual reactions, and whether they will be mockery or joy or covenantal light, some ways that we can shine in that preparation for our Savior's return. And I also want to end talking about Satan as he is the author of our doubt and fears and Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. Wow, what a great summary. All of a sudden I'm going, yes, let's do that, yes, let's do that. Right there at the end of section 45, I personally love this little phrase, come to Zion. I had a great, great grandfather who wrote the hymn, Israel, Israel, God is calling. That's the key phrase, come to Zion, come to Zion.

John, Shema was here last year, and I'm sure our listeners remember her, but let's just remind everyone, give us some background. Yes, Shima Bararan-Boffman is a professor and author and, listen to this, a distinguished fellow. Now, that is academic jargon, because anybody who's watching us on video is going, she does not look like a distinguished fellow. That sounds like some 19th century guy with a hat on. She's a distinguished fellow at the Wheatley Institute where she studies religion and human flourishing. She's authored and co-authored three books, 30 articles. She's been in the New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, NPR, and other media outlets. She's originally from Iran. She has an Instagram account. You can follow her at Shema Boffman.

Everybody that heard her before is probably excited that she's back. John, I have an Instagram account as well. I'll post something. Shema, she is very busy, you just read, and she'll take time to comment on something that I post. I'm like, oh, Shima, she is very busy, you just read, and she'll take time to comment on something that I post. I'm like, oh, Shima, thank you. Well, me and 5,000 other people, but your posts are great, Hank. I love them. You're kind.

I'm really grateful for you, Shima. Let's read from the Come Follow Me manual, and then Shima, it sounds like we have a lot to do today. The title of the lesson is, The Promises Shall Be Fulfilled, 1 section, section 45. The revelation in section 45 was received according to the section heading to the joy of the saints. And there's a lot to be joyful about in this revelation.

In it the Savior gives His tender promise to plead for us before the Father. He tells us of His everlasting covenant spreading throughout the world like a messenger to prepare the way before Him, and He prophesies of His glorious second coming. The Savior does all of this while also acknowledging that these are troubling times, in part because of the perils that are to take place before His coming. But that peril, that darkness, is not strong enough to extinguish the light of hope. And this is a quote from the section, For verily I say unto you, the Lord declared,

that I am a light that shineth in the darkness. That alone is a reason to receive this revelation with whatever counsel and warnings and truth he wants to give with joy. Beautiful. So, Shima, take over. You mentioned something about a celebrity magazine? Yeah. I think we want to start with a confession right away. I used to read this magazine every time I went to the airport. It's a very guilty pleasure because it's basically just celebrity gossip, right? It helped my flights go faster, but it had this section in it called

stars, they're just like us. It would have a celebrity in sweatpants carrying groceries or some unflattering picture of somebody that looked like one of our neighbors. They wear sweatpants and don't wear makeup too. I think there are certain scriptures that have the same humanizing effect for prophets and I think of the early saints. I love the Doctrine and Covenants so much because these passages that we read really involve the Lord patiently speaking to people who have and continue to make a lot of mistakes and rely on him for mercy and grace, like me. And I make mistakes too.

And so do the subjects of many of the chapters of the Doctrine and Covenants, who are patiently being guided by the Savior who loves them individually. This is a great place to turn when you think you're not worthy, when you think that you'll never feel his love again, when you need the strength that only he can provide

to face another day. The Doctrine and Covenants intimately covers both the courage and the weakness of our early saints. When they didn't get along, they didn't listen to the Lord sometimes. When pride and human foible took over and they were demoted from the higher law. Also when he expanded their abilities to translate, blessed them with the other testament of Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon, angelic visitations, the gifts of the priesthood, temple covenants. There's so much for all of us to learn right now. There was a time in my life, I have to say, admit another confession, where the Doctrine and Covenants was not a favorite book of scripture of mine. Even now as I approach it, even though I have a firm testimony that Joseph

Smith was a prophet of God, I'm still sometimes reticent to climb back into this complicated mire of church history. I believe that the reason God directed our prophets to preserve these records of revelations, some of which are very unflattering, is that the Lord demonstrates that even though as humans we're flawed, through him we can accomplish the impossible and only through him can we be redeemed. Much like scripture, basically the entire Old Testament, the Acts of the Apostles, the Book of Mormon, we read accounts of the mistakes and weaknesses of people, how they disobey the Lord, use violence against each other, commit sinful acts, but then find healing and hope and redemption through Jesus Christ. And just like celebrities, right, are just like us,

prophets are just like us. And as we read these chapters, I think we have to be careful because what people love about the stars are just like us section, or I guess the modern day equivalent might be the suggested reels on Instagram or videos. They show a celebrity in unflattering light. We might feel like we feel a little bit better than the person pictured. We see somebody being rude on an off day, but I think that when we read the Doctrine and Covenants that we need to be careful to keep at the forefront of our minds our own imperfect lives rather than gleefully pointing finger at another's past mistakes without standing in their shoes and realize that we're all worthy of channeling His power despite our weaknesses and the Lord can covenant with us. He can use us for His purposes. He'll pour His grace over us despite our

continued errors as long as we strive, as long as we just strive to be as people. Wow, that's wonderful and that's something John that you and I have talked about quite a bit this year is not judging people by their worst moments, by an off day, Shima said. Yeah, that's one of the things that I love about the Doctrine of Covenants is because I find myself identifying with these imperfect people. I'm writing down that phrase you said, rather than pointing gleefully at others, why do we find glee in that? We love to see people fail. I think it's a sad reality of humans and we need to be careful. Yeah, does it make us feel a

little better about ourselves to look down on someone else? That's not the Lord's way. Yes, so just a little background on what's going on here. So Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. More than once the text says that many plain and precious parts of the Bible had been lost. In the summer of 1830, he begins a new translation of the Bible to restore some of these truths. I mean, it was quite radical at the time because the King James Version was obviously, at those days, the perfect Word of God. Now, obviously, there's lots of translations, but during that time, it was quite controversial. As he was translating the Bible, he had a vision called the Visions of Moses in 1830.

Later he came out with the first chapter of the Pearl of Great Price. And over that next little period, Sidney Rigdon joined the church. Joseph Smith received a revelation that he was to be a scribe. After we get the beautiful story of Enoch and Moses, then there is a time where there's translation stops. March 7th 1831 we received Doctrine and Covenants 45. This is when Joseph is working to translate the book of John. During this time the Saints were experiencing a lot of opposition. As Joseph Smith said, in this age there was a lot of false reports, lies, foolish stories published to circulate to prevent people from investigating this church.

And as I think about all of these lies and people getting confused about the Second Coming, as well as the reputation of the church, as you said, Hank, earlier, that this was a joy to the saints because this revelation really provided this hope in the second coming, particularly the part where we learned that Christ will come to the New Jerusalem and to his saints. These scriptures are just as relevant to our modern lives as we have a number of TV shows, probably the most ever streaming right now, telling false stories about the church and these are proliferating and not to mention the war against us on social media leading particularly women as we study in the Wheatley Institute. I mean particularly women are being led away from faith, confusing a lot of people from our history, our doctrine and misunderstanding our policies. There's so

many false reports and stories circulating with all these different platforms. We already have a revelation dealing with this, dealing with these challenges. And according to recent data, looked at all the religions and how favored they are, we came dead last amongst all the religions, sadly, amongst all the groups of Christians, Muslims, Jews. But we know that the Lord's people are not popular and Jesus' apostles had to hide and teach in secret because despite the good they did, the miracles that they performed, Jesus Christ was crucified and his apostles were hunted and killed. God uses this hatred, even the hatred of men, for good

and there's some evidence, the bright spot of this all, you know, this kind of time we're dealing with in 45 and now, that a lot of the negative attention in the past that we've seen as we study this, there actually in 2012 when we had our other big moment where we got a lot of negative press with Mitt Romney running, well, baptisms and interest in the church spiked up in that. And so I'm praying that what's happening right now will spike interest in the church and people will want to investigate and learn more and figure out what the truth is for themselves. Wow, I love taking this section of the Dr. Covenant saying, okay, let's look at today because the Lord can do both. He can speak to the saints in 1831

and to the saints in 2025 in one revelation. I really like that take. Let's look at both 1831 and 2025. That just reminds me of President Nelson in general conference, assuring us that we're going to see great miracles in the spreading of the gospel. It sounds like what you were saying right here. We're going to see some amazing things even from the attention that sometimes is negative. This is Jesus basically explaining what his own Olivet discourse means. It's his sermon that he gave to the disciples. This is interesting because there's so many different structural and linguistic and cultural analysis of this discourse, but this is the only one we have where Jesus Christ himself tells us what he meant. This helps us understand Matthew 24, 25, Mark 13, Luke 21, John,

Joseph Smith Matthew. For you, of course, who've been to Jerusalem, probably led towards there, but when you walk across over the hill of the Mount of Olives, I've only been to Jerusalem once, as you look into Jerusalem, you'll see rocks on all the graves. What's so interesting is that not only do Christians believe that we're all going to be resurrected at second coming, but there's also a Jewish belief that the Messiah will appear on the Mount of Olives and initiate the resurrection of the dead. They place stones on their graves as a tangible way to mark this resting place of their loved ones so that they cannot be forgotten in this resurrection. It's a beautiful symbolic act of remembrance, anticipating the coming of the Savior.

It's a beautiful symbolic act of remembrance, anticipating the coming of the Savior. It's interesting because also Muslims believe that the Messiah will come somewhere in this region. Some groups also believe that Jesus will come back, even though they don't believe him to be the Messiah. They believe he will come back. I think it's so beautiful that so many of God's children believe that Jesus Christ will come in the same location as Christ told his apostles. We believe, of course, that there will be signs and wonders and other things to see. I just think

it's beautiful that all of us agree on that one thing. Maybe we can't agree on a lot, but we agree on that. The Olivet Discourse, when I teach the New Testament, is a favorite of my students. What the Lord does in Matthew 24 is says, look, here's all the signs of the destruction of Jerusalem that is coming. And then he goes on and talks about his second coming. And then the next chapter is really fun, Matthew 25, where he gives three different parables. You've got the parable of the ten virgins, parable of the talents, and the sheep and the goats, all meant to prepare us for the second coming. When I teach all of that discourse, you're saying, hey, bring in section 45.

Why not? It's the latest and greatest on what Christ said about this, so I love it. In Matthew 24, it's a little hard to distinguish, is this a destruction Jerusalem event or is this a second coming event and Joseph Smith Matthew separates them a little bit better so that you can see oh this one's this and this one's this and then as we said and then we get section 45 that's going to give us more from the original author of all of that discourse which is great what What a treasure. Let's get into the actual chapter. The first six verses are basically saying, hear him,

listen to him, hearken to him, hear his voice, believe on my name, verse five. I just want to share a beautiful testimony shared in a Utah prison branch that's helped me to understand what really hearing his voice looks like with the depth of hearing the Lord that I've myself not experienced. So the man who I'm going to share a story from, he experienced this depth of faith in serving a prison sentence for drug offenses. He used to be violent. He lost many people close to him and he says, quote, recently I had knelt down by my bed after lights were out to say my evening prayers.

I was thanking Heavenly Father for the gift of a son and the price he paid for me. When out of nowhere, I burst into tears and began to cry uncontrollably. I struggled to hold in my sobs as I was afraid my bunkies would hear me as this went on for about 10 minutes. That night this dream followed. I was laying on my side in cold stone in a dark, dank cave. I was weeping inconsolably for the death of someone I hold most dear. In my hands I was grasping with all my might something cold and hard. I opened my fingers

to see what I was holding. It was three large Roman nails, every detail vivid and clear, sharp and slightly bent and burnished bright from the friction of being pounded into hard wood. The upper portion and heads were covered in blood that was also smeared all over my hands. It was in that moment that a perfect voice of perfect mildness said to me, you shed so many tears for me, never having seen me in the flesh, yet you know me. All of a sudden bright sunlight burst into the cave and I sat up realizing by the smooth stone floor, the rough stone walls that was in a tomb and not just any tomb but his tomb. I looked at the nails again

and Revelation flooded to me. They represented everything that had been done to me, everything I had ever done to anyone else. More than that, a lifetime of pain, bondage, misery, and grief. Every mistake and decision and the motivation behind them, like a judge weighing, aggravating, and mitigating circumstances in a perfect, infinite way. The Savior knew me through and through because He'd been there right there with me experiencing it all. But even more important was the blood covering the nails in my hands. Even when I was His enemy and as bad as a person I was, He paid that blood price anyway. Just then the light flooded into the tomb and shifted and I looked to the door and when I thought it was

sunlight took my breath away because standing there in all his glory was the Son of God. My testimony of those crucifixion, resurrection evident as the prints of the nails I was holding were clearly visible in the palms of his extended hands and the breath of a whisper he said, I did this for you. And I sat up upright in my bed as a profound peace filled me and the purest, most unfathomable love washed over me and through me. It occurred to me as I'm writing this that the Savior was also implying that it's time for me to let go of the hard twisted nails of my past and the damage done, embrace the future with faith and allow time to do the healing.

Though I had seen the resurrected Lord from inside his tomb, it represented my own rebirth and resurrection." This, my friends, that is hearing him, harkening to him, believing on his name, to truly understand who he is and what he's done for us, his invitation to accept him so that we can be healed. It takes my breath away. That was fantastic. To think of someone in such a low point in here. What is it Elder Holland says? It is impossible for you to sink lower than the light of Christ can shine. What a story. Before this recording, I was speaking to boys at a detention center up in North Ogden. Boy, you feel the spirit in some of those places. What a revelation for that person to get.

I just think it's as a result of how grateful he was. And I think, am I hearing my Savior? Do I have that kind of belief like this man does in his lowest of low times? I think it's something I'm going to work towards throughout my life. The next thing we can talk about is the harvest. If you read verse two, it says, when you think not the summer shall be passed and the harvest ended and your soul's not saved. And then also again in verse 37, it says, ye look and behold the fig trees and you see them with your eyes and you say

When they begin to shoot forth and their leaves are yet tender that summer is now nigh at hand I think it's important to put this into our days and understand what we're talking about here because we obviously don't live in an agrarian Society anymore. There's not a lot of talk about seasons, and crops in the way that they would talk about it. Spring was a time of new life. That was the initial work of planting the gospel seeds at the time of beginnings. Some Middle Eastern scholars have talked about how grain was scarce in the Middle East during this time, and the seed for the coming season was preserved by each farmer since they couldn't purchase them. So typically by spring, the wheat supply was out. And the summer months were difficult

for the Israelite families because the children were often hungry. The fathers were sorrowful because as they used the remaining grain for seed, the children wished that they could make bread instead. This explains Psalm 126 that says, they that sow in tears shall reap in joy. And the farmers were sad, but they planted their seeds in this act of faith that was rewarded in the fall.

After spring, summer was a hard time, intense heat, a lot of preparation, careful food management. So you hear a lot, summer is nigh. This is a time discussed for Christ's coming because it was a hard time when people were waiting for their crops to grow and they didn't have as much there. And then we have fall. Fall is the harvest. This is the joyous time for the Israelites. We have Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur. It's a time where their hard work leads to this happy and holy time where there's plenty of food and celebration. Fall, you think of the harvest, that's fall. That's when the Savior will come. I remember this time when I was in Peru and it was late August, so basically fall, and we went to dinner at a home of a family in Urubamba, which is this very

beautiful rural farm town. And we had dinner and we had brought a chicken from the market that we bought to roast for the family. And I remember them saying, we eat chicken maybe once a year, basically at harvest time, because it's very very expensive and they were yet to harvest their crops. They mostly ate corn and vegetables and I remember that night a few of us were sleeping over in a tent outside of their house and there was this full moon and I'm an early bird so I'm ready to get my bed and my sleeping bag and get to sleep. It's about 10pm and well, it's announced right in Spanish of course, I have to try to understand what's going on. But we learned at the last minute with no warning basically

that it's time for the harvest. We're all gonna work together. And I think this was advantageous, right? They had six other people. They're like, this is time we're gonna get the wheat. We're gonna harvest the wheat. So we all got sickles. And the night, end of the moon,

working really hard to get as much wheat into piles as we could and we were taught how to do this. Nighttime harvesting is the thing and I think it's good for moisture content or whatever and the cooler temperatures are good but I think about this every time I think about the harvest because I didn't last very long. I think of this every time because I wasn't physically ready and I remember being so tired and wanting to go to sleep and I think I did I think I probably went to sleep at one where some of the people that were there worked all night and helped this family harvest their crops. I just remember

thinking if I had been prepared, if I had watched the signs of the field, I would have known when it was time for harvest. I would have been napping during the day knowing that this is what I was going to have to do and I think in verse 38 Christ says even so it shall be in that day when they shall see all these things, then shall know that the hour is nigh. Are we aware of what season we're in? Are we looking for the signs? And are we nourishing ourselves in the right ways to prepare? Next time I have house guests over, I'm going to... It's time to mow the lawn, everyone! This is our one night that we can do this.

Everyone wake up. That's a pretty incredible experience, where you think it's the moment of, it's almost like we mentioned, the parable of the 10 virgins. Are you ready? Because it's now. Yeah, that's what I thought of too,

was the parable of the 10 virgins. Elder Oaks called them parables of preparation. There's these that are sleeping while waiting for the wedding. I'd like to know more about that trip because I'd really like to avoid it. Let's not go in late August. Okay, wake up. Here's your garden tools. Here we go.

I love it. I've quoted C.S. Lewis. I think I've given this quote before, but I love it. He said, the second coming is not a day of choosing. It's a day you find out what you have chosen. We can't think, okay, when that day comes, I will choose him. I love in verse two, the summer shall be passed and the harvest ended and your soul's not saved. We often act as if there's this eternal grace period, but it comes to an end at some point. The grace period runs out, the harvest ends, your souls are not saved. It's sobering stuff right there. Yeah, and I think when we think about nourishment and, you know, harvest and spiritual nourishment,

it reminds me so Arthur Brooks came to the Wheatley Institute at BYU and he said, we're so overfed in America that we don't feel hunger. We don't feel those pangs because we're constantly surrounded by food. I think these discussions of the harvest and summer and fall where people were more hungry in different seasons, they often don't hit us as hard because we are overfed in every season. My first experience with this was actually not in America, but when I was growing up in Iran, I remember I was young and my mom went to political prison and she was fighting for freedom of religion and speech in Iran.

I was raised by my grandma and my incredible aunts, so I wanted for nothing during that period except of course I miss my mom. I was raised by my grandma and my incredible aunts. So I wanted for nothing during that period, except of course I miss my mom. But I remember when my mom got back from prison, I miss my grandmother so much. And I was about five and I went to my parents' bed crying. I remember this. And I desperately miss my mom, Ani.

That's what you call her in Iran. And she basically raised me for the last two and a half years. My mom, who I give so much credit to, now as a mother of five, I can't imagine letting my daughter go, but she let me go visit my grandma in a bus ride 20 hours away to visit her alone. What I remember more than even how amazing that reunion was with her was that she fed me non-stop. She made the most incredible Persian food every hour because she didn't have toys to play with or any other kids. She would cut and peel fruit and feed it to me.

I remember being so incredibly full during that visit and I never hunkered. I didn't want to come home because I was so happy that my parents honestly after two weeks had finally called and they were like, well, your sister got a new coloring set, so if you want one you need to come home. I finally agreed, but when I think about constant nourishment, I think of my mamani and this lesson of being, we're very full physically. But do we have and recognize the same need

for constant spiritual nourishment? And do I spiritually feed myself as my dear grandmother fed me with healthy snacks and fruit? Do I spiritually feed myself as often as I physically feed myself? For me, I think reading scriptures in the morning, I try to sometimes will read some at night before I go to bed, even if it's just a verse, maybe talking to God every chance I get. For me, driving, I drive to provost, that's a good time to talk to God or listening to music that reminds me of Jesus Christ. If I'm grumpy or envious or having less-than-Christ-like thoughts,

I had to do this yesterday. I was feeling very angry. There was a new song by, I can't even remember who, The Weeknd. It's a song about mercy. So I pulled that up. I was like, okay, this could help. I think in our world today, we're so overfed, but as President Hollins said, we willfully indulge in spiritual anorexia. We eat three times a day at least for me, in addition, the treats I have after every meal. President Holland said, we willfully indulge in spiritual anorexia.

We eat three times a day at least for me, in addition, the treats I have after every meal, but shouldn't it be the same for spiritual nourishment? This is something I need to remind myself. It's easier to let that slip, even though hunger pangs, right? That will physically remind you you need to eat. Enos, my soul hungered. Right? Now my body, my soul hungered. Right now, my body, my soul hungered. I like to ask my students, have

you ever forgotten to eat for three or four days? Nobody ever just forgets to, you know, I don't think I've had a thing to eat since Thursday. No, but spiritually we do that. I have neglected my scripture study for a couple of days or something like that. What did you call it? What did Elder Holland say? Spiritual anorexia. We willfully indulge. Yes. Shima, as you and I were discussing Doctrine and Covenants and looking at sections that maybe you wanted to take on, we talked about your mom. You're one of the few, I think, of

people that I know who could connect with the Saints, Joseph Smith, and others who keep being jailed for their religion over and over. I think everyone listening would go, wait, what? Can you give us a summary of what that was like for her? What that was like for your family? Yeah, I mean, it was devastating. We were having a family party and my mom was politically fighting for speech and religion rights in a government that was totalitarian

where they didn't want anyone to speak against them. Once the Ayatollah Khomeini took over, he basically consolidated all the power, killed all his opposition. And my mom was in one of the groups fighting for freedom and democracy still. Khomeini took over. He basically consolidated all the power, killed all his opposition. And my mom was in one of the groups fighting for freedom and democracy still. And so I remember I was sitting on her lap crying as I typically did. I was known for that. She was comforting me and we had some men barge into the house with machine guns, basically

open the door without knocking or anything, barged in saying my mom was under arrest, my aunt too, and took them both. They were both incarcerated. They had 10-year sentences with no lawyer, no witnesses, no trial. They basically were told their charges. They weren't even supposed to speak. My mom said something in response, but they said, be silent. And then she was taken to prison. Through miracles, saved and removed out of prison and was taken to prison through miracles saved and

removed out of prison and was able to be released after two and a half years instead of ten but there's so many miracles that God performed in our lives to have that happen. Wow and what did she say later can we ask? Two and a half years? Yes for her she regrets it there's a lot of shame for her in what she did. But as I think about my sister and I, who were the oldest kids in the family, I mean, we just have nothing but praise for her. The bravery that she had to fight

for these important freedoms of religions. The shah was stopping women from being able to veil and saying, you can't follow your religion or you can't speak freely. And she fought for all those rights, helped to oust the shah. veil and saying you can't follow your religion or you can't speak freely and she fought for all those rights, helped to oust the Shah and unfortunately had a different government that was oppressive in a different way come in. I don't regret any of her acts and I know she does I think she's removed herself from

all politics after this experience and doesn't want to be involved she just says things change one by one and through our hearts. And she's right about that as well. But I think I'm grateful that she did that work for her country as well. And Shima, you hit this last year, but let's rehash it. How does a family in Iran fighting for religious rights, how does that daughter end up teaching at BYU right now?

That's a bit of a... Another miracle. One thing led to another and I... I love talking about it because I'm so grateful. I have no business being here in Provo and living in Utah or in the US. We're in Tehran. My mom was in prison. My dad did a medical procedure for one of the higher-up religious leaders in Iran, ended up saving him from his

neurological problem. He ends up getting this position to do research at UCLA, which he didn't even apply for. It's like so many miracles. Like someone had applied for it and applied for Japan. He went to Japan as soon as he could. This was during the Iran-Iraq War. And then the opening for UCLA comes out. My dad takes it. He comes to UCLA. There's a woman who's a nurse. Her name is Maryam. And if anyone is Persian in California, you'll know Maryam. And she is the most amazing missionary. She had this prompting to talk to my dad about the church. She, after a couple of times of ignoring it, goes and talks to him. My mom immediately, when seeing the pamphlets about families can be together forever wants to meet the

missionary she investigates a church ends up getting baptized and saying I'm not going back they'll kill me for that. It's right I mean they would kill her and we were miraculously escaped from the country anyway because she was supposed to be on probation even though got out of prison and so we end up getting asylum as refugees because of her political prison time. And then we were able to stay in the U S and grow up in the church. It was our greatest blessing. I look at my journals as an eight year old, like what was more important to me than the church? Like us,

all I talked about was how grateful I was to be a member of this church. I just can't say enough about it. So thanks for letting me talk about that. Wow. Just not many of us, John, I don't think can connect with Joseph Smith in Liberty Jail, and not like Shima and her family can. I would love for so many youth to hear about you in your journal at eight years old, that all you wanted to talk about was the church. What an awesome, unusual, unique, beautiful story. Thank you. Thank you. And I think it is a testament to, and we're going to talk about this later, about children, but as children we saw the light. We just intuitively knew, even when we didn't even speak English. I came to the U.S. in second grade, I spoke two

words, yes and no. But when I went to church, I felt the spirit. I felt the spirit. I knew this was good. I knew this was light. And I knew this was going to change our lives. We don't give our kids enough credit. They know it's right. And maybe they take advantage of it more than I did because I saw the contrast of what I had experienced to what we had in the church. I'm glad we were able to talk about that, even though in this particular section, Joseph Smith is not in jail, not yet. Shima, what do you want to do next? I was hoping to talk about me and John's favorite word, advocate.

This comes up very deep in this chapter. Jesus Christ our advocate and as a lawyer, this is one of my favorite descriptors, I know it's John's too, but what is an advocate? So it's a voice for someone who pleads for another. Love section 45 verse 3 where it says, listen to him who is the advocate with the Father who is pleading your cause before him. Our best advocate Jesus Christ, he laid the foundation for the earth and all things that move upon it. He tells us that he's experienced what all of us have. And now what we learn right, he takes upon himself our intermentities that his bowels may be filled with mercy according to the flesh,

that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people. Price is the only one truly who could be an advocate for all of us in this life. He saved us from death. He's the only one who can understand all our sorrows and pains. I want to think about, well how can we be advocates in the last days? What does this mean for us? I often warn my students, sometimes it can be more difficult to be an advocate or a disciple of Christ as a lawyer, because as Christ said, woe unto you lawyers. They were not words that the Savior used without cause. There's very few examples of lawyers in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon who are humble disciples of Christ, except for Ziezram, who we all love as our favorite lawyer. There's three

ways I would love to talk about to be a good lawyer. One is obeying the law in every aspect of our lives. This includes allowing modern prophetic guidance and core commandments to permeate who you are. I would love to tell you about a remarkable disciple of Christ and an advocate. Her name is Anna Rose and she's a judge in Tanzania and currently pursuing a masters in law at BYU. She is a servant disciple of Jesus Christ. She glows. She's a student in my class. I'm so grateful for her. She describes her work as a judge and it's explained that her country is one where bribery and deals with judges are

common. In her faith journey she talked about how the judges that she served with and continues to serve with describe her chambers as different. They say, well there's business as usual here but not in Anna Rose's courtroom. They say she is a disciple of Christ. This is the kind of reflection we want to have as examples of our advocate serving with love, perfect honesty, and integrity everywhere we are. When those I mentor closely at work and home, including my kids, when they see me act generously and honestly and consistently with the commandments of the Lord and then of course apologize when I so often fall short of what I claim to believe.

They will be inspired as well by my advocacy. What we do as advocates to follow the law in our lives is so much more important than what we say to our colleagues or our children. How we behave at work. When we go there as disciples of Christ, the representative speaks greater in magnitude than anything we have to say. When we go there as disciples of Christ, a representative speaks greater in magnitude than anything we have to say. Shema, you and I didn't plan on this when we talked about section 45. It wasn't the word advocate that I thought, oh, Shema would be perfect for this.

It was afterward where I looked at it and went, oh, so what's it like, Shema, to plead someone's cause in a courtroom? I've never done that. Yes. Well, I would love to tell you a few more stories of how I see this beautiful advocacy. To answer your question first, there's just this Christ-like humility that you gain. So, for instance, for me, the biggest case I ever did was this fight over a 50 cent DVD. So the rapper 50 cent in Malawi. And I represented 11 people who were charged with different types of theft offenses. So what happened was there was a 50 cent DVD.

These two kids started fighting over it. One of them beats up the other one. The other one then burns down the other one's house. And then there's all this looting that happens after this house. And I remember feeling very humbled because as I looked at my client's faces, like I had no idea who is guilty or innocent. It made me humble because I thought as much as Christ does know who's innocent or guilty, he loves us just the same and he'll plead for our case as well as he would for anyone else's.

And I felt this very important call of they have me or no one and and yes I don't know the law in Malawi as well as other people but no other person is here to represent them but me. That's such a unique position to be in. John you and I've talked about this before. Imagine being in front of the father there's the Lord next to you and he says, Father behold the sufferings and death of him who did no sin, in whom thou was well pleased. And then you stop things, you're like, can I talk to you for a second? Yeah, what? I don't know if you got my file, but I sinned quite a bit.

Behold the sufferings and death of him who did no sin? This is not going to work. I think the Lord would say, I wasn't talking about you. Yeah, he isn't talking about what you did. He's talking about what he did, which is amazing. Probably my favorite advocate verse is 1 John chapter 2 verse 1 that starts out, if any man sin, if any man, if any woman, if any teenager, if any young person sin, please manifest it by the uplifted hand. It's this, if any man sin, we all know, okay, we all did, we have an advocate with the Father,

Jesus Christ the righteous. I mean, that verse right there is so, ah, we're all in that boat. We have an advocate. A couple of other titles that are similar that we often hear are mediator or intercessor. Then he doesn't say, father spare these that are perfect or spare these that are near perfect. He just says, spare those that believe on my name. Thankfully. Yeah, at your judgment, he's talking about his works. Thankfully. Yeah. At your judgment, he's talking about his works. Thankfully. Very hopeful verses to begin this section where there's a lot of details of the second coming coming up. Very hopeful right at the first. And Chima, that would mean the Lord's courtroom is different than ours because I can't see you saying,

behold, this lawyer who is so good, who have kept all these laws, spare these defendants here. It's a different type of courtroom than maybe we have in our head. It is, but I do think that as disciples, there are ways we can advocate. That's what was so fun for me to reflect because I think there is this advocacy that you know our Savior does with the Father. I think there's some really cool ways we can advocate. The second thought I had was that we could show up for those that we advocate for as our roles as human advocates and disciples. Unlike Christ, we don't have the same experiences or

specialized knowledge to help, but sometimes it's even more important not to have that knowledge, but to be present. I dedicated many of my years in my career as a criminal officer to be an advocate on behalf of the incarcerated and to bring forward new data that demonstrates that releasing a larger number of people charged with crimes before trial could still be safe for society. I tried to explain to judges how using this data, we could release the right people and keep people safe.

So this is one of my areas, this bail advocacy. And I remember as I was getting ready for this, this bail period is a really important one where people really do need an advocate. When they show up before a judge without an advocate, oftentimes they don't have the right preparation and they're not able to present the evidence that they need. Basically the judge might detain them. And if they're detained, they often lose their job. They're more likely to get a carceral sentence.

So it's a really big decision, even though it's two minutes. And I remember going to these judges, presenting my data saying, well, this is what you should do. This is who you should release and who you shouldn't. And my data was really good. I did it with an economist, well, this is what you should do. This is who you should release and who you shouldn't. And my data was really good. I did it with an economist, a hundred thousand defendants, 15 years of data saying who's safe to release.

I was so pleased with myself. Right. But then as I presented this, one judge kind of sits back in his chair and sums up the experience so well. He says, this is interesting, but I'm just going to go continue to make decisions based on my gut. It's just devastating. I knew that's what the response just going to go continue to make decisions based on my gut." It's just devastating. I knew that's what the response was going to be.

Then 13 years later, I saw something remarkable. A colleague of mine wrote in this book called Radical Acts of Justice about a Louisiana church congregation who attended bail hearings to be witnesses with the accused. They didn't know the people accused of crimes and they had no special skills. They weren't lawyers, but they simply went to sit next to them as a witness and show them love in a time when they had no one else with them. When people went back and studied this, in the days when the church members showed up and sat with the accused, the judge set 50% lower bail amounts for the accused, allowing them more

often to be released. And it turned out the judges hearts were just touched to see someone that was loved rather than just a defendant that they moved along in a two minute hearing. There's a power simply showing up for people and showing that love where we don't even need to plead. It's just that our presence shows the love that they need to move on. And I don't know if you guys know Paul Heaton. He's a member of our church, a brilliant professor from Penn. He did a really cool study where he just assigned people on this bail hearing a friend.

He called them a bail advocate. And the people that were assigned just a friend that literally they had no skills, they weren't a lawyer. All they did was give them a heads up, hey, this is what's going to happen at the hearing. This is what happens here. Those people that were assigned a friend were 30% less likely to commit a crime or be charged again, recidivate, because they had a friend. I believe so strongly in this power of love and showing up for people.

It's such a miraculous thing that can happen in criminal justice as well as in life. Wow. John, I don't know about Kim and Shima, I don't know about your husband, but if you want to make my wife mad, you come after me. I, for some reason, someone goes after her and she's not super flustered, but something will happen where someone will insult me and she will, you'll see a fire in her,

but it is a good feeling to have an advocate, someone who wants to go to battle for you. I love that. So the third thought we had about advocacy is believing in the power of Christ to change lives. Sometimes to be an advocate for someone, we simply have to love them, but other times we need to hold them accountable and believe that they have the ability to change. This is Doctrine and Covenants verse four and five and paraphrasing it says, Jesus says, behold the sufferings and death of him and who thou was well pleased. Wherefore spare these that believe in my name that they may come unto me. There's a remarkable story about a bishop I want to talk about. This was in the 1975 new era. His name was Bishop Haldeman.

He had a man who joined his ward, who had a long history of driving while intoxicated, without a license. Then he was baptized, was fulfilling his duties as a scoutmaster, when one day, even though he wasn't allowed to be driving, he needed to get to work. He didn't have any carpool possibilities, so he drives without a license and of course ends up getting arrested and charged for his crime. He called his bishop and he says, sorry I'm gonna have to say this but I'm gonna have to resign as Scoutmaster, I won't be attending church for an extended period of time and I want to be excused from everything and left alone. He told the bishop briefly, he said, listen I got this driving offense, I'm gonna go to jail, the church doesn't want to be associated with people of my kind,

so I'm disowning myself from the church and from my colleagues. But I want to ask you, what does the bishop do? What would you do? I think it's so remarkable what this bishop does. He investigates and figures out where this man will be attending traffic court. He shows up that day without reaching out to him. The judge is there with his lengthy driving record. He's angry that this man has never served any jail time. He orders him to get one year in county jail. And the bishop's sitting there as a witness. He planned on testifying if he had the chance,

but then he feels like a failure because he said nothing. Now I'm quoting the bishop. He says, at that point, the court clerk handed the judge the next record for the next person to be called up. And there was this this delay and the judge seemed to be perusing the record and the bishop says nothing. He didn't raise his hand, he didn't move his head or anything. He didn't even have an expression on his face, he says and then all of a sudden without any reason the judge raises his hand looks at the bishop and says in a loud voice, sir do you have something that you want to say to this court? Then

there's a silence and he says, your honor I'm a bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I've known this man, he's been a faithful member since I've known him. Since the day of his baptism he's never touched a drop of alcohol, smoked a cigarette or drunk a cup of coffee because he promised that he wouldn't do these things if he got baptized. And he accepted the call to be Scoutmaster. He's a great Scoutmaster, The boys love him. There was a pause, you know, it was a few seconds, but it felt like a long while to the bishop. He says, the judge turned to this man and says, is what he said true? He said, yes, it's all true, your honor. And the judge says, will you ever break your promise to

this man? And Bob says, no, your honor, I will never break my promise to that man. There's a silence again. The judge says, one of the finest men I've ever known was a man, J.R. McClark Jr. He was a classmate of mine in law school. He was a great man and I was always impressed with him when we were students. And I believe that he's one of the presiding officers of your church. And he said, in view of my great feelings for him and the obvious influences had on this man and his promise, I will suspend the sentence. And with that gavel, he suspended the sentence and let

him go. I just think, can we believe in people? Can we actually believe in the power of Jesus Christ to save lives, to change people's lives? Because I've seen this. I've seen people who have been incarcerated, who have lived these horrible lives, give their life to Christ and allow themselves to change. And can we be those advocates and bring people to Christ to have that same change? Yeah, even when he said, leave me alone. And we might say, well, he wants to be left alone. What can I do? But the bishop was, you don't want to really be left alone. Let me come after you. John, what's that story of President Monson going and hunting that kid down? Have you ever heard that where on a Sunday he couldn't find one of his priests and he goes looking

for him and goes to the mechanic and he's down under the car. He called to him and he said, you found me, Bishop. All right, I'll come to church. I'm so glad you're going into this idea of being an advocate for others. I mean, if we're trying to be like Christ, I guess we can also try to play that role when we can, or try to play that role when we can or try to be that advocate when we can. Can you say that reference again? New Era 75. Yes, it was the New Era 1975. It was written by Harry Haldeman, but it actually was in the Clark memorandum as well. You can look it up if you look up Harry Haldeman 1975 New Era. I love the idea that Prodigal Son went to a far country. The Pharisee and the publican that went to the temple to pray, the publican stood afar off. We might think of a church being far from the prison, but it's

never about distance, it's about direction. Some of these beautiful stories happen in prison. It's about their direction. Sadly, we may be in church, but we may be facing the wrong way or going in the wrong direction. We may be in prison and going the right direction. And I think these stories all teach us not about distance, it's about direction. It's kind of the which way are you facing. I know that Elder Holland has said, the Lord cares less about where you've been than where you are and with his help where you're

willing to go. What a hopeful thing to think about. Which way are you facing? Which way are you trying to go? Shema, I want to ask you a quick question. What if there's someone who's listening who says, no, these people deserve incarceration. This person deserves this. How do you react to that? I'm sure you've heard it before, right? Here you are pleading the case for someone who may be incarcerated. They're going, why would you keep them out of there? They deserve this. What comes to mind? Yes. I was going to talk about this later, but we can talk about now. It depends the purpose of the dessert and what you're trying to punish them with. So if you're wanting to punish someone and put them away because they're a risk to safety

of people, if they're harming people or themselves, then that's a different reason than to do it out of vengeance or spite or to be happy. So when we ever get happy, when someone is put into prison, that's where you have to check yourself and we don't have the right motivations because Christ has commanded all of us to forgive all men. So he'll decide who he forgives, but we are commanded to forgive all men and women. I think when we are gleeful, when people are put in prison or punished or think they deserved it. Well, then we're putting ourselves in this position as judge. And I think that's really dangerous because we're not asked to be the judge. We know that Jesus Christ is the ultimate loving, kind, perfect judge. We're not asked to be judges. We're asked to forgive all even those who despitefully use and persecute us.

This happens all the time. Every year, there's this dissonance in my criminal law class where people are like, yeah, but Professor Broffman, I mean, what about people that are really dangerous? And that's what we talk about, murderers and rapists. But our role is different than Christ. We should punish and try to rehabilitate those that are harming people and put them away for the time they need. But we should be joyous when they come back to Christ and give them an opportunity to change if possible because I think that is our role that we need to help bring all

souls unto Christ. And I believe that everyone incarcerated even, they all chose Jesus Christ once. We all did. Before we came down here, we all chose Jesus. We didn't choose Satan. So there's some good in them and they can come back. And I do believe that we should work hard to try to allow them to come back to Christ as much as we can, not try to be happy when they continue to suffer and to sin. I'm not an expert on this. I could ask my friend, Derek Sainsbury, but when Joseph Smith ran for president in 1844, that was one of his major points of his platform, his turn prisons into schools. Yep. Reform people. Just really quick, you go to Matthew 18 where the Lord says, look,

here's how you're supposed to deal with each other. You read that last parable of the unforgiving servant. It'll make you uncomfortable. I think the Savior's parables are meant to make you uncomfortable. That one is tough where the Lord says to the servant who wouldn't forgive I forgave you. I Forgave you just because you asked President Dallin H. Oaks gave a talk at BYU called Judge Not and Judging From the perspective of a judge there's times in our lives when we have to make judgments. The Savior tells us how to judge righteous judgment. There were five years of my life, as you know, Hank, where I actually had the title of a judge in Israel. I still remember

times driving to the church with the words of the song in my mind, who am I to judge another when I walk imperfectly, to participate in a membership council. Super humbling times where you really, really, really want help from the Lord in those cases, because He can read hearts perfectly, and we can't as humans, but He can. The goal was to get in tune with that. That's great. Shima, we've had you here for a while. What do we do next? I want to go through verses 11 through 15 where we talk about Enoch and the God of Enoch and I want to spend a little bit of time on a few points that we can learn from Enoch. Sometimes I think when we talk about revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants and even people talk about the Book of Mormon, I think there's some

incorrect statements made by members where they'll say something like, oh, there's little external validity to these revelations or little historical evidence to support the Book of Mormon. I strongly disagree, I'm sure you both do, but I think this mention of Enoch reminds me of a really beautiful external validity of the Doctrine and Covenants. Enoch's account that Joseph Smith is revealing in Moses 6 and 7 is referred to here in Doctrine and Covenants 45. It's strikingly similar to the 1948 discovery of the Book of Giants, which is this kind of collection of fragments that discusses Enoch, and it was discovered in Qumran, the same place that the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered. Obviously in 1948 this

happened, Joseph Smith had no access to these uncovered records, but what's amazing is that he reveals a lot of very similar things in Moses 6 and 7 as what's found in these records in 1948. For instance, there's secrets, wickedness, murder amongst these people in the land that Satan had great dominion upon them, it says in Moses. They sought for power and then the book of giants talks about slaughter, destruction, moral corruption that filled the earth. There were secrets that killed many.

So again, a lot of these similar themes. They also both refer to Enoch as a wild man, which is remarkable. Why would they both say that? That's nothing in Genesis. There's only a few verses in Genesis and it's nothing about that. It referred to him as a lad. Enoch and his whole city were brought to heaven as we know, but we didn't know that in Genesis. The Bible only refers to Enoch going alone. All these similarities are quite remarkable. And even external Yale scholar Harold Bloom said, Joseph Smith produced writings on Enoch so strikingly akin to ancient suggestions. And he said, I have no

judgment one way or another on the authenticity of this, but he found enormous validity in these writings. He said that it only attributes to the prophet's genius or demon. But whatever it was, it was remarkable. Interpreter Foundation also talks about these discoveries and that there's so many similar themes, secret works, murders, visions, with Enix adversaries ending with their destruction, specific occurrences that would just be remarkable

if any 19th century document were to exhibit this. But the fact that it has all of these different things, probably a great number of those that we're not gonna talk about. But I just think it's really neat because there's no explanation of these different things, probably a great number of those that we're not going to talk about. But I just think it's really neat because there's no explanation that Joseph Smith would match this level of detail with agent records that were not even available during this time. No one knew what happened to Enoch until more recently. I think it's remarkable to mention that because I think

sometimes the spirit converts us and our testimonies are based on the spirit. But also, as a lawyer and as a thinker and as an analytical person, I like to see evidence and mark it when it's there. And I think some people's brains work that way, so I wanted to just mention that as we're talking about Enoch. Obviously there's the Spirit and sometimes there's just things that make sense. I have in my notes, and this is probably Hank from four years ago, I don't remember who we had talk about section 45 that I've got in my margin that Joseph Smith was

working on the JST at this time of the Old Testament of the book of Enoch. Here comes this extra information. It also reminds me of there was a video on YouTube Hank called the Old Testament in eight minutes that a couple of members of the church made. It's really good the The kids narrate it, it goes really fast. It talks about the city of Enoch being taken. Well, that is unique to us. So in the comments section, somebody's like, hey, wait a minute, when did that happen?

The city of Enoch being taken. So I thought, yeah, well, it's a couple of Latter-day Saints that made that video and had a little extra info about Enoch. Yeah, here is Joseph Smith going along in 1831 doing his little Bible project, and he gets to wherever in Genesis it talks about Enoch. And John, I remember this from our Old Testament year that he basically said to the Lord, is there anything more you want to talk about? And then, well, 144 verses more on Enoch and this is where Shema's drawing from. Pretty incredible both what Shema showed us and then this Joseph Smith. That's incredible Shema. It really is. It's not hey my testimony is based on Joseph Smith

knowing the story of Enoch. That's going to get you nowhere. But it is that external validity. I think Nellie Maxwell called it fertilizer on a testimony. You have a testimony, you're growing it, but it's not bad to have a little fertilizer every once in a while. I love that. I never heard that one. One of the other things Joseph Smith mentions about Enoch is that he was a lad. And this is something we didn't know obviously in the old and I think There's something beautiful about that. We talked about earlier how Sometimes children have the greatest wisdom because they have the simple ability to receive light I remember after my family had come home from living in Malawi. I talked about living there a little while ago

I went back for consulting trip to this rural part of Malawi where I was doing some looking at fair trade practices and tea plantations and two weeks after I had gotten home, so I'd already forgotten about the trip, I got really sick one day and I'm sitting in bed I have this huge headache which was not usual for me to ever sit in bed. So I'm sitting in bed and my five-year-old son Kian comes in he says, mom I think you have malaria. He was absolutely right. So all of a sudden it struck me. I mean the most common illness in Malawi is malaria. While we were there, Kian spent so much time hanging out with all of our Malawian friends, other people that come to the house, and every time they were sick it

was like, I have malaria because that's what they had. It's crazy because it's treated with a couple of pills, but if you don't treat the symptoms you could get worse and die. I got the pills and I of pills, but if you don't treat the symptoms, you could get worse and die. I got the pills and I treated myself, but I remember thinking if I had gone to Provo with a bad headache, you think the doctors would have said, oh yes, you have malaria?

With all their specialized knowledge, it would never have occurred to them that I would have malaria, because of the complexity of all the diseases they know they're training. But I just think of my son, my five-year-old, who basically knows one disease, it's malaria. And he diagnoses with me, he nails it,

and makes me think sometimes the gospel is so simple, and all that we learned was when we were little, and it's still all true, and if we really focus on that and think about, Enoch was a lad when he discovered the greatest truths, because the simplicity of the gospel is what we strive for. The more I grow in wisdom, the more I realize complexity is overrated. Realizing that these simple truths are what we can have to get

closer to our Savior. That's what I think about. John, you remember the youth theme? It must have been a long time ago. Let no man despise thy youth. Yeah, which in King James, I didn't know what that meant. Don't be bad when you're young. And actually, I think what Pa was saying to Timothy was, don't let anyone look down on you because you're young. I love this language we talked about earlier, the strangers, the people of Enoch were called strangers and pilgrims of the earth.

One of the other great lessons of Enoch, the second lesson I would say, is that his city were strangers and pilgrims. I had went through a period of struggle with my faith towards the end of my marriage, my first marriage, and after my divorce. Through my entire life, I was this devout member of the church. As you know, miracles brought my family to the church, and I'd always had a strong testimony of Jesus Christ. During that time, I really struggled with some aspects of my testimony and the church

history. I remember after being divorced for two years, I met and married my husband Ryan, who happened to be 38 and single, and I felt like I had won the lottery. I never thought I'd find love again or have the opportunity to have more kids. And there he was, this faithful, humble man. I think he's pretty handsome too. And before we got married, we were going to the temple aiming for like once a month, which really means like every, I don't know, month or two or three, depending on the month. I remember it was February of our first year of marriage, so we barely married six months. We hadn't been sealed

because we met April 30th, got married August 8th, and we had to wait to be sealed in those days. I had to wait for divorce cancellation, all that. But anyway, we were fighting a lot. Ryan had this really beautiful inspiration. He said, what if we tried going to the temple once a week? Honestly, we were both desperate to keep our marriage intact for different reasons. Ryan had waited 20 years to find someone he should marry.

His mission presence said he's gonna get married within six months. Well, it took him 20 years to 18 years, I guess, to find me. I'd been through a painful divorce. I'd been married for 13 years, and I was so desperate to make this marriage work. I remember walking down the aisle in my wedding to Ryan and my father, so wisely saying those final words that every girl wants to hear before your father walks you down the aisle. He says, so this is it, right, Shima? And I'm like ouch. I know he meant it with great love even though it hurt but I so desperately wanted it to be it. I was

willing to try anything. Then there we are we go to the temple every week for that first year of our marriage. Our marriage changes. We often go in I have to say not talking to each other, we've been mad at each other but but we walk out of the temple holding hands and giggling, laughing at whatever we were fighting about because the temple softened us. It helped us feel love again. It forced us to feel the spirit and let go of contention when we didn't want to. We had this eternal perspective that we wanted when we left, that we didn't when we came in.

And there were so many blessings that we saw from going to the temple regularly. After a number of years attending weekly, we've now been married almost 10 years. I have to say it's changed us in so many ways. First way I have to say is, from the age of 14, I want to say this specifically because I know there's a lot of women that watch your podcast. I think a lot of women right now are having problems and questions about their role as a daughter in God's kingdom and in the church. And I did wonder the same thing. I thought, how do I fit? It was through repeatedly attending the temple and doing initiatory sessions in the temple that I was able to grasp the power of the priesthood that I had access to, to bless my life, to bless those that come into my orbit, to bless my future posterity. And I could appreciate this divine identity I had as a daughter of God

and a future queen with my heart linked to my savior every time I renewed to these covenants. And second, I think the more regularly I was in the House of the Lord, I could delight in hearing God's voice. As I mentioned, I most often worshed in these initiatory ordinances. I remember one of the most beautiful parts was where I felt cleansed ritually through the ceremony. There's a ceremony kind of like you talk about in Exodus that we do in the temple. I remember Satan though, in my voice, in my head in those years, that first year I went, every time I went saying, who are you kidding? You don't deserve to be here.

Satan would proceed to vividly play in a horrific video montage for maybe the first year or even more. Every time I showed up all of the sins that I'd committed that I'd repented of telling me I'm not worthy, you're not going to be forgiven. I had gone through the processes. I didn't feel worthy and I remember the Lord as I went through these ordinances over and over, being washed and anointed over and over, finally having these sacred words of the Lord that are whispered to me during this ordinance, finally taking over the voice of Satan. I finally believed I could be made spotless through the atonement of Jesus Christ. In those early years when I didn't feel like I fit in the temple, I can't even tell you the number of people, workers at the Salt Lake City Temple where I used to go, prompted to tell me,

you're a beautiful daughter. They'd come out of nowhere. People I never knew saying I was loved, that God loved me. Everything you could hear, and I honestly never heard those words ever since, except that one year when Satan was working so hard to get me out of there because all he wanted is for me not to go to the temple every week and feel like I wasn't worthy. That can happen to a lot of people that we could feel this voice of Satan they could take over if we're not careful to go as often as we can to let the voice of the Lord take over. That's not the end of it because as we think about being strangers on the earth, after getting through my initial fear of all the sins

I had had that I repented of but Satan kept reminding me of, God started whispering me in the temple that my favorite pet sins that I'd held on to for a long time had to go. And I remember I loved poker. I loved playing poker with my dad and with friends and something I did growing up and that left and it was gone and God whispered little things. Dressing more modestly came next. I made some changes there. I got messages to do more to serve the poor or the sick or in prison. I rejected most of what was on TV and on social media. And as I got to intensely studying the words of living prophets and

scriptures when the temples were closed particularly I could reduce the darkness I felt not having been in the temple in those times and I remember thinking and feeling like this exact language that we have in this chapter that I felt like more of a stranger on the earth and a stranger to my former self. Spending more time in the house of the Lord helped me to understand that this is how we can seek to become strangers on the earth because when we're trying to be live in covenant with God and keep his commandments, we do have to reject what's around us and in the dark to walk with Christ. I think we need to do

much more reject this commonplace immorality. When we're grateful for our covenants of chastity that bring us closer to our Lord and Savior, we reject the standards of the world, the philosophies of men that confuse and complicate the teachings of God. We sometimes will miss the popular songs and shows and concerts and movies. We can't retain hatred for any of our brothers and sisters. Even those we feel justified to hate, we can reject division and political discord and materialism, inequality. Anything that contradicts the laws of God no longer tempts us when we feel strangers on this earth. I think of the prophet where he says that any violence becomes difficult for him to watch, even a sports game.

When there's contention, he turns it off. That's a good test of if we're a Zion society. Am I liking things that are popular? Am I stranger or in a pilgrim on this earth? Or am I one in the same with the earth, right? Am I fitting in, am I popular? And I think that's a really good test for me of whether I'm strange enough,

because we need to be strange to be Zion, right? Sheema, thank you for sharing all of that. It's very personal, yet I have found that which is most personal is most universal. Everyone struggles. It made me think of Isaiah when he's talking about the temple. John, you can help me out. I know you know the verses better than me. He says, come to the house of the Lord, come up to the mountain of the Lord, and we will learn of his ways. We will walk in his paths. And this phrase, they will beat their swords into plows, their spears into pruning hooks.

And to me, that's saying, in the temple, you change. You go in with a sword. I'm ready to fight. I'm ready to go to battle with my spouse. What did you say, Shima? We'd go in angry at each other. Yes, come out giggling. It's true.

Yeah, you come out with a plow, basically. I'm ready to serve. My husband's favorite line would always be, are you ready to apologize yet? And then we would both laugh and then both apologize. Yeah, in the temple we change. I think that's why the Lord gave the children of Israel the tabernacle, because it was easy to get the children of Israel out of Egypt. It was almost impossible to get Egypt out of the children of Israel, and

that's really what the temple does for us. Wouldn't you say that if we keep going to the temple, eventually we come out as, you know what? This earth is not my home. I am a stranger here. Absolutely. I heard a great teacher, John Lund, say, criticism doesn't change people. People either change themselves

or they're changed by the Holy Ghost. Being where the Holy Ghost is, he is the agent of change throughout the scriptures. The temple is where the Holy Ghost is and you come out different. You come out softened. We've seen it again and again. Pretty incredible. Thanks for teaching that. Please join us for part two of this podcast.