Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 10-11 Part 1 • Dr. Chelsea Chipman • February 10 - 16 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

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Coming up in this episode on Follow Him. I'm thinking of John 9 with the blind man. Why does God let us sometimes suffer for so long when He is going to heal us or He's going to make something right? They said, who sinned, Him or His parents? That was the question posed with the blind man. And the Savior said neither, but that the works of God may be made manifest in him. This story, I love it so much because it shows that the works of God prevail. They will always be made manifest even in our mess.

Hello my friends. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I'm your host and I'm here with my co-host, John, by the way. Now, John, listen to this as I describe you. A man who possesses the mildness of a lamb and the integrity of Job. Now, John, that's Joseph Smith's description of his brother, Hiram, and I thought, that is John, by the way, right there.

You've known me this well and you would still say something like that. Absolutely. The mildness of a lamb, the integrity of Job. He goes on to say about Hiram, and in short, the meekness and humility of Christ, and I love him with that love that is stronger than death." Isn't that a great statement from Joseph about Hyrum?

Wow. John, we are joined today by Sister Chelsea Chipman. Been a teacher in the church's educational system for 15 years. She is now a teacher of teachers, John. That's how much seminary and institute love Chelsea. They say, make more of teachers, John. That's how much Seminary and Institute love Chelsea. They say, make more of you. Make more Chelsea's. Chelsea, thanks for being here today. So excited to be here with you. Thank you both. I'm just excited to hang out with Hank and John. We are grateful that you would take the time to be with us. John, when you think of either us. John, when you think of either the lost manuscript, the stolen manuscript, if you listen to Garrett Dirkmaat, or Hiram Smith, anything come to mind? This is section 10

and section 11 today. The word that I always put with Hiram is integrity because the Lord said that about him. I love the integrity of his heart. You get a compliment canonized like that. That's a good day. We've been talking about the Lord in these canonized mistakes people have made. And then there's Hiram saying, I didn't get that. Actually said something wonderful. Chelsea, as you've prepared this lesson,

what are we looking for today? What do you want to do? We're going to come back to Hiram. So loyal to so many, but especially his brother. Can we go section 10, a little Martin Harris? He's just so relatable because we all lose things. I'll tell you what I found that I have in common with Martin Harrison just a second, but before we jump into section 10, I want each of the listeners to go somewhere with me for a second. My question is, when have you lost something? When have you lost your car keys? When have you lost

maybe a pair of shoes? But then it gets more serious. What's something that you've lost that's important to you? And I've been thinking about that because I think we all deal with loss in this life. Maybe for some out there they feel like I've lost a family member. Maybe someone has passed away. They've literally felt that loss. But perhaps they've lost a friendship and it's eating at them or they've lost their job. Maybe they've lost a marriage, but we all lose things in this life. As I've been studying, especially section 10, God has a really beautiful message for us today, especially any of us who feel lost ourselves or we feel like we've lost something that we can't bring back and it's just like, I just have messed up and I can't make this right.

So I think God has a really important message for anyone in that boat today of feeling like they've lost something important. Please be listening for a message from heaven. He's going to talk to us today. Yeah, I've been studying about Martin Harris a little bit and we have a lot in common. He and I were both born in 83. Okay. That's true. That's true. He's just 200 years older. We've both been to Clarkston, Utah, and we both have testimonies of the Book of Mormon. I have a deep love for the three witnesses. So even though we're going to talk about a hard story about Martin Harris today, I don't think Joseph and the early saints could have done everything

they did without Martin Harris and his financial support especially. I mean, we can't be publishing printing the Book of Mormon without Martin Harris. He's going to struggle and we're going to jump into that. But I love Martin Harris. He is one of the three witnesses of the Book of Mormon. He's never going to deny that testimony, even through some hard times with his faith. He's never going to deny that testimony, which strengthens my testimony. Personally, someone kind of steps away or he might have said, I didn't leave the church, the church left me. But however we want to put it, he's going to step away at one point in his life, but he's never going to deny that testimony. And he's going to come back and on his deathbed bear a firm witness that the

Book of Mormon is true. And he's going to be buried with a Book of Mormon, according to Susan Easton Black, Book of Mormon in his right hand being buried in a Doctrine and Covenants in his left or book of commandments. Love Martin Harris. Chelsea, what an introduction. I guarantee there are many listeners out there who said, that's me. That's me. And in my heart, John, I thought, what a lesson that I'd never even thought of.

Dealing with loss. Yeah. Yeah. Dealing with loss and big loss like this 116 pages. These are big losses and watch what the Lord does. Watch what the Lord does. Chelsea, what a way to start. Let me read from the Come Follow Me Manual.

The lesson this week is called That You May Come Off Conqueror. We're in two sections of the Doctrine and Covenants 10 and 11. Here's how it starts. As the translation of the Book of Mormon continued, a question came up. What should Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery do about those lost pages of the translation? It might make sense to retranslate that portion, but the Lord saw something they could not. Their enemies were planning to alter the words of those pages to cast doubt on Joseph's inspired work.

God had a plan to avoid that problem and keep the work moving forward. Thousands of years earlier, God inspired Nephi to write a second record that covered the same time period for a wise purpose in him. That's quoting Nephi in 1st Nephi 9. My wisdom, the Lord said to Joseph, is greater than the cunning of the devil. That's a reassuring message in a day like ours when the adversary is intensifying his efforts to weaken faith. Like Joseph, we can be faithful and continue on in the work God has called us to do. Then we will find that he has already provided a way so that the gates of hell shall not prevail against us. Between those two paragraphs and Chelsea's introduction, I think we are off to an amazing start.

Chelsea, where do you want to go from here? Do we jump right in section 10 or do you want to give us a little bit of the story? A little bit more of the story. Martin Harris, his wife Lucy, he was 25 when they got married. She was 16, their cousins. Love Lucy. I won't need to meet her in the next life because she just gets a bad rap with us, but she really does have a

lot of concern. She's gonna push her husband who's trying to help Joseph with the Book of Mormon translation, talking about financial help, and she's getting nervous. Martin Harris owns a lot of land, some from which he inherited from his father. But he's well-to-do. He's twice the age of Joseph Smith. He wants to believe Joseph, which is going to be huge for him, because most people aren't going to believe Joseph. About 1827, the Harris's are doing really well. They have 320 acres of farmland. Clearly their acquaintances with the Smiths, Lucy Mack Smith is going to come over and

talk to Martin Harris. Let him know that the angel has come and that Joseph has the plates. That there's a great work happening. Martin it feels like for me he wants to be a part of this work. He's getting opposition from his wife. I'm trying to put myself in her shoes and well show me the plates, show me the plates. She's gonna come with Martin, we're gonna head over to their house and I'm gonna go through their things. I'm looking for the plates from Lucy and I'm not finding them and Joseph won't show me so she's anxious, she's nervous, she's not sure what she thinks about this. Neighbors are mocking, why are you helping this weird Smith family?

Don't you know these guys are a fraud. So Martin finds himself kind of in a tough spot. I think he's feeling that there is something here, this is God's work. But my wife is just so upset and others and my family members are questioning. And maybe some of us have been in a similar situation. You're trying to do the Lord's work, but there is opposition. And sometimes it's from people close to us, which makes it really, really hard. Martin is going to go to the Prophet Joseph Smith. They've been translating. Spring of 1828. Joseph, will you please, please, please go to the Lord and ask him if I can just show the manuscript,

show what we've been doing to my wife, my parents, maybe a couple others and just put them at ease that this is legit. Joseph's going to turn to the Lord, ask him. The Lord as we know is going to say, no, you must not. Joseph's going to come back to Martin. Martin's gonna keep pushing. You've been peer pressure for a profit. Joseph's gonna ask the Lord a second time. And I'm trying to understand Joseph here too. He doesn't have a lot of support. Here's someone who believes in him twice his age.

Financially can help. I know it's not all about money, but I think that is a part of it. I don't know how to do this. And he's already given him money, right, Chelsea? I feel like I owe you. Yeah, I asked the Lord the second time, the Lord says, no, goes back to Martin. It's going to go back and forth, back and forth. Martin's going to go back to Lucy, Lucy's and others. I'm sure there are many giving Martin a bad time. If I'm the adversary, I'm going to be attacking Martin.

Martin's going to keep bugging Joseph. Joseph's going to ask the Lord the third time, and the Lord is going to come back and say, okay, you can give the manuscript to Martin under these conditions. He shows them only to his wife, his parents, a brother, and a sister-in-law. That's it. I don't think that's what happened because they are going to be lost. Some might say stolen. Nonetheless, they are lost. So Martin Harris is like, I've lost my soul. He's going to come find Joseph at his parents' house and it's going to be rough. He's going to sit on the little fence for a while in front of the house. He can't even step inside with his hands on his temples and just, I can't. Steps inside, sits down at the table, they offer him food.

He has no appetite. So just picture being Martin Harrison this moment. I've just lost 116 pages of the Book of Mormon. I guess one of my questions is did it have to be all 116 why we just like send him with a page But it was all of it up to this point of what they had translated. He comes in Joseph's like Martin What is going on? He's like, I've lost my soul. And Joseph knew what that meant. You've lost the manuscript. Go back, go find it. Nope, I've ripped the pillows, I've ripped the mattress, I've ripped everything. It's

gone, it's gone, I've lost my soul, it's gone. I know this might sound a little dramatic, but in life there are moments where we feel like I have messed up so bad, I can never repair this. Again, whether it's a marriage, a friendship, I've lost something and I can't make this right. As we know, section three is really where we get a good chunk of the story. I think it's interesting though that for so many years I got my cue older scriptures and newer scriptures, and we've learned a few things over the years. One is that my old scriptures say that section 10 was received summer of 1829, but my scriptures from 2013 on that we now have, which I'm so grateful for the good gospel scholars out there that are doing so much research and so

much good work, section 10 really, most of it was likely received around April 1829. There's going to be months of feeling this loss. This isn't just an overnight Heavenly Father making things better. Joseph for a time will lose his ability to translate. That's going to be restored in section three. The Lord is going to chastise him. Don't fear man more than me, Joseph. You kept asking and asking and asking. I kept telling you no. So relatable. I think we've all been there. We keep pushing for something and the Lord does honor agency. But if we can listen the first time, our lives are going to be so much easier. So section 10, what a beautiful section, powerful section. Revelation given to Joseph Smith, the prophet at Harmony, Pennsylvania, likely around April 1829.

At this point Joseph and Oliver are translating and wondering what do we do with the lost 116 pages? Do we retranslate it? What do we do? So here's the answer. And let's just start verse 1. And feel free to jump in with verse 1. Now behold, I say unto you, that you delivered up those writings, which you had power

given unto you to translate by the means of the Urim and Thummim into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them. Like those four words, they're just humbling. If the Lord said that to you, you're like, and you have lost them. I would feel so bad. Verse two, and you also lost your gift at the same time in your mind became darkened. This is just a rough time for Joseph. It's a rough time. The Lord is reminding him, you lost them. I didn't. Yeah, I didn't. Just a small little reminder. I'm teaching you. You lost them. Verse three, nevertheless, the most beautiful word in scripture sometimes. Nevertheless, it's been restored unto you again. I can work with you. You're still chosen. And he told him that in section three. You're still my prophet.

You're still chosen. He's going to teach Joseph some really beautiful things here but one thing I think in section 10 that is so noteworthy is that the Lord really describes the nature and character of Satan and his motives and how he works and he also describes the nature and character of God and both of these influences are so real that even Joseph Smith, a called prophet, is going to struggle. We are as well. So if we can jump into some verses just about what we can learn about the adversary and how we can avoid losing things in life like they've lost 116 pages.

It gives you a settled feeling to think that God knew this was going to happen so long ago that he had those for an unknown purpose. Another, you know, Nephi keeps his record and other than just Lehi's. Here we're going to talk about the designs of Satan, but God has designs too and they don't fail. And it's just kind of nice to know that he probably knows what we're gonna go through too, therefore. And lost, lost, but then verse 3 restored. Oh, thank heavens. He is a restorer. He has a plan in all of this. I love the word you've used Chelsea of relatable to Martin because I wondered poor guy he probably had a different outcome. Lucy's going to see this and she's going to be so excited and then we will be partners together in this great cause or then

they'll support me and then they won't worry about how I'm devoting finances and resources to this. won't worry about how I'm devoting finances and resources to this. And we've talked about this before, Hank. His motive could have been, this will help my marriage. Yeah, this will help things. I felt the same way. And even when I read section 19, this is relatable. Do you ever read the New Testament and feel like when Peter's getting chewed out, you're feeling, yeah, this is relatable to me too, right? Who do you identify with the most? Well, it's not John, it's probably Peter, right? Chelsea, I love what you're doing here already. You're taking a story that we all know, the

loss of the pages. And we look at Martin Harris and go, oh, poor guy. And Joseph Smith, oh, you should have listened. And now you've turned the mirror on us. You're going, one, have you ever lost something very important to you? I automatically thought of our listeners, John, who write in and say, I don't know how I'm going to save this child. What did we do wrong? And that child is much more precious than pages of scripture, even though the pages are valuable and wonderful. That's already on my mind, Chelsea, is I'm not so much looking at Martin and Joseph anymore.

I'm looking at my own life and the lives of those I love. And I think there's power in that. Let's get our eyes off of them for a second and look at us and our lives and what the Lord can do for us. And then if we look back at God with that phrase, I am able to do my work. The fact that, hey, I saw all this, I saw all this coming, I know what they're up to, I got this. And Chelsea, why do you think the Lord took so long to tell them that He had worked it out? He could have automatically said, oh guys, don't worry about it. I actually already took care of this. But you said it's been some time weighing on, they don't know that He's worked it out.

They don't know that they haven't ruined the entire restoration of the Gospel. I actually love that question. And I'm thinking of John 9 with the blind man. Why does God let us sometimes suffer for so long when He is going to heal us or He's going to make something right? They said, who sinned, Him or His parents? That was the question posed with the blind man and the Savior said neither, but that the works of God may be made manifest in Him. This story, I love it so much because it shows that the works of God prevail. They will always be made manifest even in our mess. And look at verse 34.

This is where the Lord is going to teach Joseph about his wisdom, how much more powerful he is than any mistakes we make. Huge messes. We've lost a relationship. We've lost a wedding ring. Some of these big losses that were like, oh my word, I was hiking and the ring is gone and it means everything to me. And some people might be like, oh, it, I was hiking and the ring is gone and it means everything to me. Some people might be like, oh, it's just a ring, but to that person it's everything. This is Martin, his marriage is on the rocks and this is the Book of Mormon we're talking about that we've lost. This is a big deal, this is a really big deal. We've lost a piece of the keystone, you can't be losing that if you're going to restore

the Savior's Church to the earth. Verse 34, just the nature of God. But behold, here is wisdom. Joseph, I'm going to add, and because I show unto you wisdom and give you commandments concerning these things, what ye shall do, show it not unto the world." I'm going to add my own words here because this is how I feel. Show it not unto the world for the love. We have a backup plan, but don't show this one to the world. Anyway, I shouldn't, I'll just, I should say how the Lord said. We used our backup plan, right? Okay, Joseph, here we go. But I love how he's just introducing, okay, I'm going to teach you about my wisdom. Show it not unto the world until you have accomplished the work of translation.

Verse 35, Marvel not. Love those two words. I think what the Lord is saying, and he says that phrase often, which is always, Marvel has always followed with not. Because a lot of times you think, well, isn't it okay to marvel? Like, ah, God is so good. I just marvel. But I think what he's saying here is, why are you guys always surprised when I perform

a miracle and when I have your backs and when I restore something that was lost? So Joseph, marvel not with what I'm about to tell you. Believe. Come to know who I am. I am a God of miracles. So here's wisdom. Show it not unto the world. He's going to say it again. Check it out. For I said, show it not unto the world three times. Verse 36. I didn't say you won't show it unto the righteous. 37. But Joseph, bless your heart. You can't always judge the righteous from the wicked. And I feel like I can relate to that. That the gift and the power of discernment, that is a gift to pray for.

I think especially in our day, but he says, as you're learning how to discern, hold your peace Joseph. Let's just keep this between us. Verse 38. And John, you mentioned this, but I have to read it because from the Savior's voice it's so powerful. And now Verily, I say unto you that an account of those things that you have written which have gone out of your hands is engraven upon the plates of Nephi. Joseph, I have another account. I

have foresight. I've talked to Nephi. I prompted him so many years ago. 2400 years ago. Yeah, I saw this coming. Amazing. I knew what was going to happen and so in the words of Mormon, right, verses 3 through 7 and 1st Nephi 9, we can go there if we want, but Nephi feeling prompted to make another set of records. He calls both of them Nephi, the record of Nephi, but there's some that lean more into the ministry, the sacred things, these smaller plates that he feels so strongly to include. But he says, I don't know why, but for a wise purpose in the Lord. And I think it's interesting that both Nephi and Mormon use the same line for a wise purpose.

And throughout this section 43, I will not suffer that they shall destroy my work, yea I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil for a wise purpose. God is wise, he is way ahead of us, yet sometimes we still marvel how good he is and that he has backup plans and that he has long-term solutions to our immediate problems. With God, nothing is ever lost forever. He is the great restorer of all good things. I just love this story. Chelsea, last week, Dr. Ford told us the Lord is the master of damage control. He can move in and start cleaning things up.

Chelsea, let me ask you a question that I think might run through a student's head, especially a young person. If you knew I was going to make this mistake, why let me make it? I can almost hear Joseph and Martin, at least in my head, going, you knew? You knew about this? Why go through it at all then? If you already knew, there's wisdom in pondering this. Well, if the Lord knows I'm going to make a huge mistake, why doesn't He stop me? Well, first thing that comes to my mind is, and we have to be so careful speaking for God or trying to figure out what He would say,

but what comes to my mind with that question is, well, what did you want me to say to you? And I had already told you no twice. And you keep coming to me. I've given my children agency. You came and you asked for guidance and I gave you guidance, but you didn't want it. So I honor your agency and I gave you very specific guidelines on what to do and you didn't do it. So naturally there are consequences to our choices. I will not force my children. I will not make you listen and follow my promptings. I won't make you follow him. It's a choice to follow, to follow Him and to follow me. But what's so beautiful is His mercy. Remember the Lord

is merciful. In section 3, I can still work with you. But yeah, the 116 are lost. Yeah. So what have you learned? You're never going to do that again, are you? Joseph will never. Yep. Because if he would have said, yeah, you can show it, then what's the next thing that's going to come up? I don't know, but maybe I'm thinking as a parent that it's always, you know how much we all love learning experiences, aka trials, but this is a, so what did you learn type moment that maybe helps them going forward. Chelsea, John, I've been in religious education for two and a half decades and now I'm starting

to realize the beauty of Moses chapter one. How valuable it is where the Lord tells us, look, here's my end goal. Here's my mission, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. I could do this perfectly. I could make everybody not make mistakes. I could lay this out the way I want to, but that's not my end goal. My end goal is children who choose me,

who use their complete agency to choose me I think if you can remember the Lord is mission focus you might go Oh, he lets me make mistakes so I can learn so I can choose to become Like him John who was it that said the Lord doesn't want children who do what is right? He wants children who want and choose to do what is right? who want and choose to do what is right. Zelda Renlund, wasn't it? What I like to hear is, I remember reading in 3rd Nephi 21, which is where we get that idea about Joseph Smith.

This is 3rd Nephi 21 verse 10, the life of my servant shall be in my hand, therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them yet I will heal him now listen verbatim to this phrase for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil that is verbatim what's in verse 43 of section 10 I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil." Once again, I saw this coming. Jesus saw this coming and even shared it with the Nephites and used that exact phrase. I just found that to be amazing. That is, 3rd Nephi, what was that, John? 3rd Nephi 21 verse 10, I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

Just another evidence, the Lord saw this coming. As you said, Hank, he has an outcome. It's to bring to pass our immortality in our life and he is able to do his work. Chelsea, could we just pause for a second and speak to our listeners about where you started so beautifully. My wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil and I might even add there, or your mistakes. Your foolishness, your humanness. How do we help parents and grandparents who think, oh, if I just would have done things differently, maybe I would have saved that child's testimony.

It's my fault. That verse, my wisdom is greater than your parenting. My wisdom is greater than your mistakes. Can you speak to that? My parenting is better than your parenting. I'm parenting you too. I'm going back to section three, verse one. The works and the designs and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated. Verse three, remember, remember that it is not the work of God that is frustrated, but the work of men. And like you said, Moses 1.39, God's work in glory.

Everything he's doing is to bring to pass our immortality eternal life. The works of God are not frustrated. Agency is where we get frustrated, which is so interesting because we fought for this gift. We fight and we fought for agency and we don't like people to tell us what to do. Sometimes we want to tell our kids what to do and I know there's a balance with that, Sometimes we want to tell our kids what to do, and I know there's a balance with that. But sometimes our kids, and for me, students or whatever our lives look like, sometimes our kids are just not going to do what we would hope they would do. It's the same with Heavenly Father. Martin Harris, I don't believe that God wanted Martin Harris to lose these pages. Some might say,

oh, well, it was meant to be. Everything happens for a reason. Everything's meant to be. I don't think the Lord wanted it. But in his omniscience, he had a plan because he's always a step ahead of the devil. For parents and for me, a teacher worrying about kids, if you're a parent or a grandparent, you're worried about a grandchild that's maybe left the church, knowing that the Lord's wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil,

and he is cunning. And maybe our kiddos are struggling with some things right now, but we're not to the end. And the perfect parent is parenting. He's patient, he's teaching. He's guiding. Why would we put limits on an infinite atonement? We have a savior.

Chelsea, I love that. Goes back to what you said earlier, verse 35. Why are you always so surprised that I am here? I'm a God of miracles and I've got you. I'm in relentless pursuit of you and your children and your grandchildren. Everything's going to be okay. Put your faith in me. Put more faith in me. Yeah. Dr. Anthony Sweatt was here a couple of weeks ago. John, do you remember? And he said, he had his students close their eyes and say, how many of you think you're going to be exalted

in the celestial kingdom? And oh, you know, some hands are kind of, I don't know. And he said, how do you think the Lord feels about that? That we're almost saying, oh, I believe in you, but I don't know if you can actually exalt me. I get it. Both of you would say, yeah, it's not that my faith in him is weak and it's my faith in myself. But this section shows you that he understands you. say, yeah, it's not that my faith in Him is weakened, it's my faith in myself, but this section shows you that He understands you. The Lord says, yes, yes, you are faulty.

Yes, you make mistakes. And yes, I want you to learn. No, it's not okay to do these things. But above it all, overshadowing it all is I'm in control. I've got this. I'm really glad that you brought up Moses 1.39 because I feel like some parents might retranslate it as if someone's pointing the finger at them as a mom, as a dad, and saying this is your job and your glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of your children.

And the Lord didn't say, no, actually that's my work and I am able to do my work. So the game's not played out yet. Just hang on. Yeah. I want to read verse 45 and share a quick story that was from general conference, but verse 45, just in what you were saying, behold, there are many things engraven upon the plates of Nephi, which do throw greater views upon my gospel. Therefore, it is wisdom in me that you should translate this first part of the engravings of Nephi and send forth in this work. I love the greater views. Because of this entire experience you've been through, you're going to have greater views. And I think that's life.

Through the hard times we go through, we're like, why didn't I listen to the prompting? It came clear. In this case, the answer to Joseph came pretty clear. Nope. Okay, but this is what he needs to look like. He was clear. Many times in our lives, we just have a feeling, just, oh, I shouldn't do that. Sometimes we still do.

And then we go through this really rough experience, but if in the end we find repentance, we find the Savior, we tend to have a greater view of things. For those of us who have lost loved ones, I have a few in my immediate family and it's been hard, but I have greater views now of God and of the next life even. I know there is a life beyond this one and I'm grateful for those greater views that come. And I just want to share a quick story from And I just want to share a quick story from General Conference. It was October 2024, the joy of our redemption, Sister Yi, second counselor in the Society General Presidency. If you remember, she shares that story about receiving a prompting to paint a picture of

the Savior and how intimidated she was to do that. This story just reminded me of everything section 10 of losing the 116 pages and what a mess, you know, we have and how God is so redemptive and gives even greater views and brings an additional account. So Sister Ye said this, About 10 years ago, I felt impressed to paint a portrait of the Savior. Though I am an artist, this felt a bit overwhelming. How was I to paint a portrait of Jesus Christ that captured His Spirit? Where was I to begin, and where would I even find the time? Even with my questions, I decided to move forward and trust that the Lord would help

me. But I had to keep moving and leave the possibilities to Him. I prayed, pondered, researched, and sketch sketched and was blessed to find help and resources and what was a white canvas started to become something more. The process wasn't easy sometimes it didn't look as I had hoped. Sometimes there were moments of inspired strokes and ideas and many times I just had to try again and again. When I thought the oil painting was finally complete and dry, I began to apply a transparent varnish to protect it from dirt and dust. As I did, I noticed the hair in the painting start to change, smear, and dissolve.

I quickly realized that I had applied the varnish too soon. That part of the painting was still wet. She literally ruins a part of this gorgeous painting of the Savior. I'm looking at the picture right now. She's put so much time into this, even felt prompted to do this. Sometimes we feel prompted to do things and we do our best and we make a mess. And we think, why do I even try? Here she is. She's got a mess on her hands. She said, I had literally wiped away a portion of my painting with the varnish. My heart sank.

I felt as though I had just destroyed what God had helped me to do. I cried. I felt sick inside. In despair, I did what anyone would typically do in a situation like this, I called my mother. She wisely and calmly said, you won't get back what you had, but do the very best you can with what you've got. So I prayed and I pled for help and painted through the night to repair things. And I remember looking at the painting in the morning. It looked better than it did before. How was that possible? What I thought was a mistake without mend was an opportunity for his merciful hand to be manifest. And she just shares the most beautiful testimony about how God can mend broken things, how he can fix a messy painting. If he cares

enough to help her with her painting, then he cares to help us with our pictures of life. He's gonna help us with the mistakes we've made, the losses maybe we've created, and the result for her was just a deep gratitude for her Savior. As she was probably marveling, he might be saying, hey, Marvel not. You know I've got this. Her painting became even more beautiful after she messed it up. Wow. What a great tie-in. It's difficult to put into words, but I hope everyone listening feels what I feel, which is, what does that tell you about him? The master teacher and so loving and so kind and so good.

And I keep coming back to what you said earlier, Chelsea. Guys, why are you so surprised when I do this every single time? Why do you marvel every time? This is beautiful. John, can you put in the words for me because I just can't seem to find the words. You can look at the actual text of what it's talking about, but the wonderful thing is you can apply that so much bigger, which is what you've done beautifully, Chelsea. I have

it in my margin. You try to thwart the work of God and it turns out better anyway. So you try to kick the word downstairs and you end up kicking it upstairs. That's right. But what you just did, Chelsea, was apply that beautifully. Trials give us greater views of everything. One more reason to say, don't marvel, I do this all the time. Ether 12.6, you receive no witness until after the trial of your faith. If we want to gain testimonies, I teach my seminary kids, even my institute students that first four letters of the word testimony, what comes before the testimony is a test.

There will be tests. There's going to be tests of faith. Some of those just may naturally come because an omniscient Lord sees you ready to learn. Others are going to come because of our stupidity, the way we use agency. Others come because of others agency. But either way the Lord is there to guide, to bless. If we lose ourselves, He can help us find who we are. If we lose something along the way, He has long-term solutions. He has the small plates ready for us as well. When we're losing our 116 pages, I think we need to trust the Lord more. The adversary is real. If we just go throughout our lives thinking, oh, Satan's

not real and Satan wants us to believe he's not, but he's a great deceiver. And a good portion of this chapter talks about how he tries to get into our people's hearts. So we need to learn how to protect our hearts. It wouldn't be okay if I skipped the doctoral mastery verse in this section, so we got to go verse 5. He's going to tell Joseph, hey Joseph, you pray always. Pray always Joseph that you may come off conqueror, that you may conquer Satan and that you may escape the hands of the servants of Satan that do uphold his work.

I don't think we can underestimate the power of daily prayer and praying for power over temptation. Of course, coupling that with a good scripture study, but this praying always concept is crucial in having power over the adversary. And because like you said earlier, Satan does have his cutting plans, but God has plans also. Which plans are we going to follow? I really do love the name of your podcast. It's so simple, but it's a beautiful invitation. Follow Him. It really is up to us whom we choose to follow. Pray always. Could I follow that up with verse 33? Thus, Satan thinketh to overpower your testimony in this generation. What? Testimony of the Three Witnesses, what they've already written, the testimony of the Restoration,

but broaden that to all of us. Job one for him is to try to overpower your testimony in this generation. When you guys think of the parable of the sower, the first thing the sower does, before the sower went forth to sow, some fell upon hard ground and the fowls came and devoured them up. And that's why I always put right next to this, if you are going to try to plant the Word of God in your heart, you're going to get opposition.

The fowls will be right there to devour them up. Let's you know, you're going to get opposition if you're trying to plant a testimony in your heart, you're going to get opposition. The fouls will be right there to devour them up. Let's you know, you're going to get opposition if you're trying to plant a testimony in your heart because Satan wants to overpower your testimony in this generation. And the testimony was our weapon in the war in heaven. I mean, I don't think we had spiritual F-16s, although I love the idea. I think our testimony was the weapon. Now we're in a different venue and what's he gonna try to overpower? Our testimony. I think that's interesting that it specifically says testimony, right? In the book of Revelation how did we overcome Satan the first time by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony.

Naturally in this life it's a continuation, verse 33, where you're at, the Satan thinketh. He's thinking, if I can get rid of these 116 pages, then I can mess with everybody's testimony. We can just be done with this whole thing. So what is he coming at us with? Satan's thinking, if I can just get this kid off course for a few years, then it's over. But with the Savior, it's never over. He has foresight. He knows what his children need and he knows where his lost sheep are. We're never truly lost with him.

If someone reads verse five and thinks, how do you pray always? There's stuff I've got to do. Elder Bednar gave, I bet you both remember, October 2008, Pray Always, where he talks about how the Lord created the earth in Moses chapter 3, and those who have been through the temple might think of this as well. He said there's a spiritual creation and then there's a temporal creation. He said a meaningful morning prayer can be a spiritual creation of your day. So you spiritually create your day in your morning prayer. Then you go and live and

then in the evening you return and report back on that spiritual creation. Did I do all that I had planned to do? He says, then during the course of the days, we keep that prayer in our heart. Thus, our evening prayer builds upon and is a continuation of our morning prayer. And our evening prayer also is a preparation for meaningful morning prayer. And then he said all of that morning to evening, morning to evening becomes pray always. I loved that. I don't know about either of you,

evening prayers are more natural for me. Morning prayers are a little more difficult until I listened to that talk. And I thought, that's a key. I'll spiritually create my day. When I was pretty young, my parents took me to the movie Fiddler on the Roof. And I think that character Tevye, he talked with God all day long. When he was walking around with his milk cart, he'd look up and say things. And he always had a conversation going. I thought that was very interesting.

And sometimes the things he said were kind of funny. I realized we're a chosen people, but once in a while, couldn't you choose someone else? You know? That kind of helped me to think I'm constantly in touch. In the scriptures, you don't hear a lot about Satan. We don't get chapters and chapters and chapters, but this section, this one, it's kind of a standout where the Lord says, look, this is who you're up against.

This isn't something to look over. This isn't something to not be worried about. Yeah, that's one thing that definitely stood out to me. It's not that we love the sections about the adversary. However, on a lighter note, I coached high school girls basketball for a few years and one thing we would do is watch game film. And we're going to watch the opposing team and we're going to pick it apart and we're looking for, okay, I think the strategy is going to work really well against this team. And if we can see what Satan's up to, then we can recognize it. What are his motives? Who is this guy?

One of the major purposes of the Book of Mormon. Yes. Korahor, Sherem, Amalekiah. That's game film. Yeah. Oh yeah, that's game film. Yeah. Yeah, so section 10 is, it's kind of a cool game film that exposes Satan, which I love it. So that when he shows his ugly face, we'd be like, hmm, and at first it doesn't look ugly.

We can discern and be like, this is kind of ugly. But something that he does is he tries to mess with our hearts. I'm gonna quickly go over a couple verses but 10 Satan hath put it into their hearts to alter the words. It wasn't necessarily them that came up with this idea. Satan's always behind evil ideas. It's just his influence. Verse 13, or he hath put it into their hearts again. And going back a verse, on this wise the devil has sought to lay a cunning plan that he may destroy this work.

Let's go 20. Verily, verily I say unto you, Satan has great hold upon their hearts. He stirreth them up to iniquity against that which is good. So let's talk about the conspirators for just a second. Verse 21, their hearts are corrupt and full of wickedness and abominations but I don't think it started that way for them. I think Satan just starts on their hearts. He's just starting on their minds but by verse 21 their hearts are fully corrupt. They're full of wickedness and abominations and they love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. Therefore they will not

ask of me. 22, Satan stirreth them up that he may lead their souls to destruction. I think that's really interesting because those who are under the influence of the adversary, I don't know what he tells them, but maybe he feels like their buddy buddies with him. But verse 22 is saying, no, not only is Satan trying to destroy Joseph and these guys over here seeking to do the Lord's work, he's going to lead their souls to destruction as well, the conspirators. So verse 27, and thus he, Satan, goeth up and down to and fro in the earth seeking to

destroy the souls of men. He is all about destroying souls. That's sad. It's like, dude, what is your deal? But we need to know that that's the character of the adversary, that it's real. I think it's interesting that the verse 21, these people love darkness rather than light. And then Jesus Christ in verse 57 introduces himself, behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God and in verse 58 he says, I

am the light which shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not. That he may lead their souls to destruction. Their souls are precious. I love verse 25. Thus he flattereth them and telleth them, it is no sin to lie that they may catch a man in a lie, that they may destroy him. And I put up in my margin, now they're setting up a gotcha, but they're lying so that they can say you lied. Verse 21. You love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil, semi-colon, therefore

they will not ask of me. Yeah, why not ask? That's so beautiful. What are some ways we can avoid losing the 116 pages in our lives? One way is to, when we ask God for guidance, and I think we should, that we may save ourselves some great heartache by following his promptings the first time. I love that his wisdom is greater than the adversary and that the story gives me great hope when I do lose things that I should have kept sacred and taken care of. I'm so grateful for the mercy of

God. I'm also grateful for the promptings from Him that He will help me avoid a lot of heartache and pain if I'll follow promptings the first time is one thing that I take from this. Another is, okay, well, the adversary is real. We know that we're all going to be tempted. It's not a sin to be tempted. But we need to be careful. So how can I guard myself against the temptations of the adversary? He's clever. He's seeking to destroy me. Like, let's not even pretend this isn't happening. And so it's like, okay, yes, I'm going to keep my faith in Jesus Christ. But how do I strengthen that faith? And how do I put on armor daily? I know we talk about this, but how many people truly are in the word of God every day? This is something that we are just begging our seminary kiddos. We set a daily scripture reading goal. How's your daily scripture

study going? How's it going? And maybe because this is something we've talked about for so long, we want another answer. Well, yeah, yeah, I know that one. I know, read my scriptures, say my prayers. But there is so much power in praying always and studying the scriptures daily. October 2013, President Packer, he gave a talk called The Key to Spiritual Protection. And yes, I feel very strongly about this, partially perhaps because I have been a seminary

institute teacher for a long time, but I also have a testimony of this. Some days I'm like, Chelsea, you haven't had a great study, you nibbled kind of on a verse, yet you're feeling weaker and the temptations are stronger. So I have a testimony of this and sometimes it's still hard for me to just have a really good scripture study. And so I just want to share a couple things from what President Packer said in his talk The Key to Spiritual Protection. He said, the scriptures hold the keys to spiritual protection. They contain the doctrine and laws and ordinances that will bring each child of God to a testimony of Jesus Christ as the Savior

and Redeemer. And then he shares a story. Years ago, Elder S. Dilworth Young of the 70 taught me a lesson about reading the scriptures. A stake was struggling with tensions and difficulties among the members, and counsel needed to be given. I asked President Young, what should I say? He answered simply, tell them to read the scriptures. I asked which scriptures? He said, it really doesn't matter. Tell them to open up the Book of Mormon, for instance, and begin to read. Soon the feeling of peace and inspiration will come and a solution will present itself." And then President Packer said, make scripture reading a part of your regular routine and the blessings will follow. There is in the scriptures a voice of warning, and that's

something right here in section 10. This voice of warning I'm so grateful for. There is in the scriptures a voice of warning and that's something right here in section 10. This voice of warning I'm so grateful for. There is in the scriptures a voice of warning but there is also great nourishment. And we need to nourish our spirits. We need to put on armor daily. It's my words and then President Packer ends with this. If the language of the scriptures at first seems strange to you, keep reading. Soon you will come to recognize the beauty and power found on those pages. We pray always, we study the scriptures daily, and we will have power over temptation.

We can and we will conquer the adversary as we tap into the power of Jesus Christ daily through praying always and being in his words. There is so much power in the words of Jesus Christ. I'm grateful for the scriptures. Yeah. I'm going to give you a second witness here. This is President Benson, 1986. Often we spend great effort in trying to increase the activity levels in our stakes. We work diligently to raise the percentages of those attending sacrament meeting. We labor to get a higher percentage of young people on missions. We strive to raise the percentages of those attending sacrament meeting. We labor to get a higher percentage of young people on missions. We strive to improve the numbers of those marrying in the temple.

All of these are commendable efforts and important to the growth of the Kingdom. But when individual members and families immerse themselves in the Scriptures regularly and consistently, these other areas of activity will automatically come. It took me longer than I'm embarrassed to admit to learn that lesson. I found that, interestingly, the prescription for so many problems, even family problems, employment problems, health problems, it's amazing how often the prescription was the same. Are you reading the scriptures? I heard someone say once that criticism doesn't change people. People either change themselves or they're changed by the Holy Ghost. Getting us all to connect to God is where

so many answers are because then we have the Holy Ghost with us to help us. So I love those quotations. It's amazing because for some people that's not my problem. No, actually read the scriptures. Not because you'll find the answer in the exact words perhaps, but because you'll be connecting to God and you'll have a greater measure of the Holy Ghost. We've had listeners with us for years, John. We hear from people who say, I was with you from episode one, four years ago, and we love

those people. John, you and I both, along with Chelsea, and I think every guest we have would say, thank you for listening. Please go read yourself. Go get in it yourself. We're grateful that you listen and we hope that this is a wonderful benefit to you and you feel like, wow, I'm getting a lot out of the scriptures now. We would encourage everyone. What does Moroni say, John? Exhort. We would exhort everyone to get into those scriptures yourself. And you can start small. You'll get the vocabulary down.

It'll happen pretty soon. It becomes a part of you. Like President Packer said. Yeah. Yeah. The Lord, as President Nelson has reminded us, he loves effort. So even if something is hard at first, just put in that effort and God will bless you. He will magnify your efforts and you'll start to fall in love with the scriptures.

President Hinckley, it will become a love affair, you'll just want to read the scriptures, but it takes time to fall in love with the scriptures. For me, I do have a testimony that the earlier I can get in the Word of God, the better my whole day goes. So if someone is needing a boost and it's noon and it's already been a rough day, just pause, go read the scriptures 10-15 minutes, say a prayer, read some verses, and just see if that can help change your day. Invite the Holy Ghost and start bringing in the blessings of the Atonement of Jesus

Christ through the power of His Word. This is Elder Richard G Scott, powerful talk, the power of scripture and this is October 2011. We're throwing it back today a little bit. He tells us, listen carefully because it's amazing the power in the Word of God. He says if we ponder, pondering a passage of scripture can be a key to unlock revelation and the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Scriptures can calm an agitated soul, giving peace, hope, and a restoration of confidence in one's ability to overcome the challenges of life.

They have potent power to heal emotional challenges when there is faith in the Savior. They can accelerate physical healing. So I don't even know if I fully comprehend how this all works, but I know it's the power of Jesus Christ and His words. Since we're on the topic, I want to address something, John. We haven't really addressed here on the podcast before before and Chelsea, you can help us out. And that is someone who says, well, I like listening to the Follow Him podcast or Unshaken or Don't Miss This or even general conference talks. Are you telling me that I'm not doing the right thing if I'm

not sitting with my book open? So what would you say to that? My experience has been, and when I watch your podcast or if I watch Don't Miss This, I find that it gets me excited to go into the Word and have a scripture study for myself, especially a Come Follow Me. I tend to watch more of the Come Follow Me podcast. If I want to study the scriptures, I'm going to go to the Come Follow Me podcast. And I find motivation in watching podcasts. Sometimes it's just the multitasker in me. I can mow the lawn. Just today, I've gained great insights with this discussion with both of you. And I'm grateful for that. But I do think there's a balance there, that if we only watch podcasts, we never open up the Word of God for our own personal revelation.

And I think we're missing some of the greater views that God could give in our own personal studies. I love it. I love it. A podcast like ours, it's a supplement, not a substitute. Is it there a story in the book of Acts about a man who's trying to read the scriptures and can't understand them? Which one is that, Chelsea? I know you know it. Well, let's try Acts 8 and see if that's what you're looking for. Philip, 30. Tell me if that's your verse.

Yeah. And Philip ran thither to him and heard him read the prophet, Isaiah, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? I'm like, do any of us? The first time or 500th time, understand? And he said, how can I except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come and sit with him. So this is true for me. Reading scriptures sometimes I appreciate something, a supplement to help me understand the Word of God. And of course, our prophets, seers and leaders are number one in helping us understand the scriptures and a podcast that's going

to quote the prophets I think is really important. Absolutely. Doesn't the Lord say, John, teach one another? Where is that? Is that section 80? 88 maybe? 88. Teach one another. Teach one another. Words of wisdom. Right. Moroni 6. Speak to one another concerning the welfare of your souls. The last thing I want is for someone to listen to our show and go,

oh, you're right, I'm not doing enough. No, we love you and we're encouraging you to get into your scriptures yourself. Start small and see what you can do. Do what you can. Amen. And I would never want a listener today to feel guilty based on what we've talked about with the power of the Word. I have a strong testimony of daily scripture study. I teach the gospel and I have days that I have a really hard time having a good study. One of the reasons that the show even started, John, is you and I both love hearing people teach scripture. I could sit and listen to Chelsea Chipman teach scripture for hours. I feel the spirit and I'm getting insights and I'm going to my own book, writing that down, saying, I've got to remember that.

I don't want anyone out there to feel like, oh, I'm doing this wrong. Just keep doing things. Just keep trying. And when you make mistakes, didn't we just learn in section 10, the Lord says, my wisdom is greater than your mistakes. If we have an effort to study the Word of God and we're sincere in our motivation there and our desires, is there a wrong way? If I'm starting by myself in the Word of God, I don't think that's wrong. If I'm starting with a general conference talk, I don't think that's wrong. If I'm starting with a podcast, I don't think that's wrong. I think the Lord has blessed us with many resources today to help us study the Word of God and get the Word in us and have more power, that power we've been talking about today,

just having the Holy Ghost as our guide. I love it. Just the other day I was on Instagram and there's Elder Holland and he says, let me show you something I've been reading in the scriptures. And I thought, what? Where do I live? How do I live in a time where I can just be standing somewhere and I can study the scriptures for a few minutes with the president of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles. What would anyone even just 30 years ago say? And a hundred years ago, 200 years ago. Chelsea, Section 10 has been fantastic.

What else do we need to see here because we do want to talk about Section 11. We cannot study Section 10 without loving the Savior more. So grateful that when we lose things in our lives or we think we've messed something up forever, we haven't. God has plans, he has foresight, he will save his children. If we are the ones who are lost, eventually we can make it back to him. who are lost eventually, we can make it back to him, have to know that God's wisdom will always be greater than the cunning of the devil, always. And that brings me a lot of comfort. I don't have to live life scared. Well, what if I choose wrong?

What if I don't do this right? What if I, it's okay to just live and even when you make a mistake, God's got you. It's going to be okay. So we also don't need to fear to make decisions in life. We can move forward. If you're like, I don't know if I should take this job or if I, well, go ahead and take it if it logically makes sense. It feels good.

Move forward. What if I mess up in my dating? I hear this at BYU? How do I know? How do I... and that is for them to decide, of course. I think sometimes we're so paralyzed by fear of making a mistake that we don't make decisions. And God will guide you as the promptings come. If you listen the first time, I think that will save you some pain. But if and when we make mistakes, the Lord's wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil and that will save you some pain. But if and when we make mistakes, the Lord's wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil and it's going to be okay. As

long as we keep coming back to him. God is a God of mercy and miracles. And you pointed out even greater views. I can throw greater views. I will teach you through this like John beautifully said earlier. What is the lesson you're learning? That's it. You're getting it. Now we'll move on and you're better for it. What a grand Lord. I can see why. What does Jacob say? Oh, the goodness of our God. Right? Yeah. The exclamation point. Coming up in part two of this episode. This happened a few years ago to text an old friend and I'll just call her Sarah, that's not her name,

but I had a thought, text Sarah. And like many times, I kind of pushed it to the side. It was a random thought to me, but it was there. And I wasn't thinking about it, that old friend. It didn't come with a strong feeling, just a thought. I pushed it to the side, I kept going on my day, it came again, text Sarah. I'm grateful I recognized side, I kept going on my day, it came again. Tech Sarah. I'm grateful I recognized it.

It was there. It was coming.