Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 10-11 Part 2 • Sis. Chelsea Chipman • February 10 - 16 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

Sister Chelsea Chipman continues to explore the everlasting love and support of Jesus Christ as epitomized through Hyrum Smith’s life and devotion.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC207ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC207FRGerman: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC207DEPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC207PTSpanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC207ESYOUTUBEhttps://youtu.be/b8D53XqHVUQALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTESfollowHIM website: https://www.followHIMpodcast.comFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsAmelia Kabwika : Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Since we're on the topic, I want to address something, John, we haven't really addressed here on the podcast before and Chelsea, you can help us out. And that is someone who says, well, I like listening to the Follow Him podcast or Unshaken or Don't Miss This or even general conference talks. Are you telling me that I'm not doing the right thing if I'm not sitting with my book open? So what would you say to that, Chelsea? John, you too. Yeah, I think that's a great question because some might think we're getting out of balance if we don't open up the book anymore or get on Gospel Library

app on my phone and just study the scriptures for myself. If we only watch podcasts, what is the balance of that? But my experience has been, and when I watch your podcast or if I watch Don't Miss This, I find that it gets me excited to go into the Word and have a scripture study for myself, especially Come Follow Me. I tend to watch more of the Come Follow Me podcast. If I want to study the scriptures, I'm going to go to the Come Follow Me podcast. I find motivation in watching podcasts. Sometimes it's just the multitasker in me. I can mow the lawn. Just today, I've gained great insights with this discussion with both of you and I'm grateful for that. But I do think there's a balance there, that if we only watch podcasts,

we never open up the Word of God for our own personal revelation or continued revelation. If it begins in a podcast, then I think we're missing some of the greater views that God could give in our own personal studies. I love it. I love it. A podcast like ours, it's a supplement, not a substitute. Isn't there a story in the book of Acts about a man who's trying to read the scriptures

and can understand them? Which one is that, Chelsea? I know you know it. Well, let's try Acts 8 and see if that's what you're looking for. Philip, 30. Tell me if that's your verse. And Philip ran thither to him and heard him read the prophet, Isaiah, and said, understandest thou what thou readest? I'm like, do any of us the first time or 500th time understand?

And he said, how can I accept some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come and sit with him. So this is true for me. Reading scriptures, sometimes I appreciate something, a supplement to help me understand the word of God. And of course, our prophet seers and leaders are number one in helping us understand the scriptures and a podcast that's going to quote the prophets, I think, is really important. Absolutely. Doesn't the Lord say, John, teach one another, where is that? Is that section 80? 88 maybe? 88.

Teach one another. Teach one another. Words of wisdom. Right, Moroni 6. Speak to one another concerning the welfare of your souls. The last thing I want is for someone to listen to our show and go, oh, you're right, I'm not doing enough. That's just not one of our roles here. No, we love you and we're encouraging you to get into your scriptures yourself. Start small and see what you can do. Do what you can. Amen. And I would never want a listener today to feel guilty based on what we've talked

about with the power of the Word. I have a strong testimony of daily scripture study. I teach the gospel and I have days that I have a really hard time having a good study. Sometimes these podcasts I think help. If I'm just not feeling it one day, I have zero motivation. Maybe I'm just really tired. Turn on a podcast if that helps you. The Lord loves effort. I love that example in Acts 8. One of the reasons that the show even started, John, is you and I both love hearing people teach scripture. I could sit and listen to Chelsea

Chipman teach scripture for hours. I feel the spirit and I'm getting insights and I'm going to my own book writing that down saying I've got to remember that. I don't want anyone out there to feel like I'm doing this wrong. Just keep doing things. Just keep trying. And when you make mistakes, didn't we just learn in section 10, the Lord says, Oh, don't worry. My wisdom is greater than your mistakes. If we have an effort to study the Word of God and we're sincere in our motivation there and our desires, is there a wrong way? If I'm starting by myself in the Word of God, I don't think that's wrong. If I'm starting with a general conference talk, I don't think that's wrong. If I'm starting

with a podcast, I don't think that's wrong. I think the Lord has blessed us with many resources today to help us study the Word of God and get the Word in us and have more power, that power we've been talking about today, just having the Holy Ghost as our guide. I love it. Just the other day I was on Instagram and there's Elder Holland and he says, let me show you something I've been reading in the scriptures. And I thought, what? Where do I live? Where, how do I live in a time where I can just be standing somewhere and I can study the scriptures for a few minutes with the president of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles? What would anyone even just 30 years ago say? And a hundred years ago, two hundred years ago. Chelsea, section 10 has been fantastic. What else do we need to see here because we do want to talk about Section 11.

We cannot study Section 10 without loving the Savior more. So grateful that when we lose things in our lives or we think we've messed something up forever, we haven't. God has plans. He has foresight. He will save his children. If we are the ones who are lost, eventually we can make it back to him. Have to know that God's wisdom will always be greater than the cunning of the devil. Always.

And that brings me a lot of comfort. I don't have to live life scared. Well, what if I choose wrong? What if I don't do this right? What if I... It's okay to just live and even when you make a mistake, God's got you. It's going to be okay. So we also don't need to fear to make decisions in life. We can move forward. If you're like, I don't know if I should take this job or if I... Well, go ahead and take it if it logically makes sense, it feels good, move forward.

What if I mess up in my dating? What if I hear this at BYU? How do I know? How do I? And that is for them to decide, of course. But I think sometimes we're so paralyzed by fear of making a mistake that we don't make decisions. And God will guide you as

the promptings come. If you listen the first time, I think that will save you some pain. But if and when we make mistakes, the Lord's wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil and it's going to be okay. As long as we keep coming back to him. God is a God of mercy and miracles. And you pointed out even greater views. I can throw greater views. I will teach you through this. Like John beautifully said earlier, what is the lesson you're learning? That's it. You're getting it. Now we'll move on and you're better for it.

What a grand Lord. I can see why. What does Jacob say? Oh, the goodness of our God, right? The exclamation point. Chelsea, tell us about section 11 of the Doctrine and Covenants. This name comes up for the first time in scripture, I believe, Hiram Smith. This last summer, I had the privilege of going on a church history tour with our friend Anthony Sweatt and his group and it was just fabulous. I have been to all the church history sites a few times, but I had never done the trip from kind of the beginnings. It would have been even better if it started Vermont maybe, but we were starting right

in New York, Sacred Grove, and then we just went the whole tour, even took a couple plane rides, and we are gonna end at Carthage. Not only do you more fully fall in love with the Prophet Joseph Smith, but his whole family and all these families at this foundational period of the restoration of the Savior's Church. And Carthage jail was one of the most sacred moments for me in just recognizing not only the gift that Joseph gave of his life for the truth, but his brother Hiram, who was always by his side, always, literally to the end. Joseph's going to have friends come and go.

He's gonna have members of the Quorum of the Twelve leave. He's gonna see some pretty significant people in church history not be by his side when he could have used them. Hiram is not only Mr. Integrity, he is loyal. I can't think of a better brother, an older brother that believes in you. He believed him from day one and he's with him to the end. And I love Hiram. He's such a good man. And here's the end of Hiram's life. We're in the upstairs in Carthage jail and here comes the mob and Willard Richards, John Taylor, Hiram's life. We're in the upstairs in Carthage jail and here comes the mob and Willard Richards, John Taylor, Hiram and Joseph are there and we're pushing against the door and shots are fired. It's going to be Hiram that gets hit first right in the face. Picturing that scene, sweet Joseph

seeing his brother falling to the ground and my brother Hiram, oh Hiram. So, Hiram's gonna fall first. He's gonna seal his testimony with his blood. I'm just really grateful for Hiram and who he was and being that older brother to Joseph, it didn't feel like he was ever jealous that the little brothers, the prophet, it felt like he was honored to be a part. Going into section 11 is the first section where we see Hiram. He's just excited to get involved with the work. This is May 1829. Priesthood

has just been restored. He wants to know, okay, this is true. What do I need to do? Will you ask the Lord what is his will? But we can go more Hiram just as far as what he did, different positions he held in the church. He's one of the eight witnesses to the Book of Mormon. One of my favorite stories of Hiram comes from his mother, as you might expect, Hiram comes from his mother, as you might expect, Joseph's leg surgery back when he was a little boy. She wrote this, Hiram, who was rather remarkable for his tenderness and sympathy, now desired that he might take my place. And what she's talking about is tending to Joseph after the surgery. As he was a good trusty boy, we let him do so. And in order

to make the task as easy for him as possible, we laid Joseph upon a low bed and Hiram sat beside him almost day and night for some considerable length of time, holding the affected part of his leg in his hands and pressing it, the leg, between them, so that his afflicted brother might be unable to endure the pain, which was so excruciating that he was scarcely able to bear it. Here's two little boys, and I have four boys. Here's a little brother in so much pain and here's his older brother, just a few years older than him, squeezing that part of his leg just to give him a little bit of relief. That picture right there, taken all the way to where you just took us, Chelsea, to Carthage jail.

Here's Hiram holding Joseph, and then you took us to Carthage jail where Joseph is holding Hiram. This is a story of loyalty and goodness. It's kind of fun to talk about Hiram because we've had Oliver and Joseph and Joseph Smith Senior in Section 4. Some more Oliver Cowdery in what, Hank? 6, 8, 9. I love that we get to talk about Hiram because he's been there all this time. Well, if I can add to what you were saying, Hank, that visual of Hiram holding Joseph as a child and then Joseph holding Hiram when he's taking his last breath potentially. Section 135 verse 3, Joseph Smith, the prophet and seer of the Lord has done more save Jesus

only for the salvation of men in this world than any other man that ever lived in it. And we are so grateful for the prophet. And then it goes on to tell what he did in 20 years. In the short space of 20 years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents. So the fullness of the everlasting gospel, right, which it contained at four quarters of the earth and goes on and on and on and on, built a great city, gathered thousands of Flatter-day Saints, founded a city left to fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great and he died great in the eyes of God and his people. And like most of the Lord's anointed in ancient times has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood.

That is quite the tribute. And then the next line, and so has his brother Hyrum. He's the only one with Joseph in that verse save Jesus. That colon and so has his brother Hiram. In life they were not divided and in death they were not separated. What a tribute also to Hiram that he's right there with the prophet testifying, giving his life for what he believed in and the truthfulness of the gospel. So, Hiram is just incredible. He's gonna be one of the eight witnesses of the Book of Mormon. He's gonna be a patriarch of the church at one point after his father. And something fun about that actually is I have this little book I brought. My

sister and a niece put this together. These are patriarchal blessings from many of our ancestors. And I was going through this book a few months ago and I have two ancestors, their last name Stuart, husband and wife, and they received their patriarchal blessings from Patriarch Hiram. Wow. Patriarch Hiram. I got to read those blessings that were given by Hiram Smith and sweet little connection there of the Patriarch Hiram Smith. So grateful for everything Hiram did, not just for the church, but even for my family. He literally blessed my family. R. Literally. J. Just love Hiram. We can go back to section 11. Priesthood has recently been restored.

So powerful. A really big moment in church history. The Smith brothers are hearing about it. Again, section four, John, you mentioned was to Joseph's dad. Joseph's had a tender moment with even his brother Samuel and Samuel's in and Hiram's, it just seems like Hiram's in. From day one, I don't know how much we know about Hiram's conversion, but we can see the fruits of his conversion in section 11 is he comes to Joseph and I almost picture this like Jared and the brother of Jared. Jared goes to his brother and says, will you cry unto the Lord and ask him to not confound our language?

And he does and he comes back and he said, the Lord, he won't confound our language. Awesome, will you? And it seems like Jared keeps going to the brother of Jared to inquire of the Lord. What humility does it take an older brother to come to a younger brother, but he knows the mission of his little brother. Will you inquire of the Lord of what my part is? I'm so excited about what's going on and I just wonder for those of us listening how much we've wondered is there more that the Lord wants me to do? Have ye inquired of the Lord? Joseph's probably pleased that his family members

are coming, but also something that this section is going to teach us is that we can receive our own revelation. We can go to God and ask him to teach us and to lead and guide us, and we don't have to go to President Nelson ask him to teach us and to lead and guide us and we don't have to go to President Nelson for a revelation. I think it's so beautiful that they're going to the prophet and that we have these sections as answers. But for anyone out there wondering is there more? For my life what does the Lord want me to do? Have you inquired of the Lord? And so Joseph Smith inquires of the Lord want me to do? Have you inquired of the Lord?" And so Joseph Smith inquires of the Lord on behalf of his brother, and this is a revelation given in Harmony, Pennsylvania, May 1829.

It's for Hiram. There's a few really beautiful principles in this section, and so we can kind of start wherever you want, Hank and John, but let me know if there's a certain place you want to go or if you want me to just go. Yeah, take us through it, Chelsea. We're ready to go. So just for fun, we're going to start verse eight. Because in my scriptures, you're going to be like, she's so cheesy, but I wrote Hank and John next to verse eight. I actually did. I have it right here. Verse 8, verily, verily I say unto you, even as you desire me, so it shall be done unto you. And if you desire, you shall be the means of doing much good in this

generation. These two are probably embarrassed. You two do, you clearly have desired your whole lives to do good, and you do a lot of good and you are the means of doing much good in this generation. You know, we live in 2025. It's an interesting time, but for those of us, you know, out there who have desires to do good, we are called to the work just like Hiram. You can be the means of doing much good in this generation. And So I'm starting with my Hank and John verse, which is verse 8. It's very kind of you. Very kind of you. I'm going to connect it to 27.

The Lord says, Behold, I speak unto all who have good desires, enough thrust in their sickle to reap. So this section is for every single person who desires to do good. This section is for you, whomever is listening, because clearly you're just a great soul turning on follow him. Clearly, we have the best listeners. So keep that in mind as we go through this section that yes, it was initially given to Hiram but today in 2025 it's for all of us.

I see the word desire come up quite a bit in this section. Not your capability, but what do you want? What's in your heart? It feels like Hiram is desiring to get out there and preach the Word. And the Lord told his father in section 4 that a marvelous work is about to come forth and it's ready for the harvest and it's, are you ready to get out there? So section 11 starts in a similar way, a great and marvelous work is about to come forth among the children of men. I love how these sections begin because I just get excited

and I would think that Hiram would have been excited receiving this answer that a great and marvelous work is out there. It's about to come forth. Verse 2, Behold, I am God, give heed to my word, Hiram. So he introduces himself at the beginning. My word is quick, it's powerful, it's sharper than a two-edged sword. And behold the field is white already to harvest. Verse 4, whosoever will thrust in his sickle and reap the same as called of God. If I was Hiram and I'm Joseph, if he's letting me know or reading this first part, if it's been written down, I think I'm just getting so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. And then verse 15, I command you that you need not suppose

that you are called to preach until you are called. Wait a little longer. And I'm like, what? Why did you just tell me how cool everything is right now? But I can't go preach yet. I want to be a missionary. Now slow down, slow down. Wait a little longer, Hiram, until you shall have my word, my rock, my church, and my gospel that you may know of a surety, my doctrine. Verse 21, seek not to declare my word word but first seek to obtain my word. And if I'm Hyrum I'm like wait I'm not ready like I'm not prepared what is the Lord

saying? Maybe sometimes we want to go out and do something great and it's not happening but perhaps we're lacking in the preparation phase and I know this has been a lesson I've had to learn a lot in my life. I'm just like, well, I want to go do something great. But perhaps the Lord is saying, well, wait, hang on, wait a little bit, Chelsea. You're actually not ready. You think you're ready. So I'm learning that I need to ask Heavenly Father to teach me what the next step is. What do I need to start preparing right now for what's to come? For Hyrum, Hyrum hang on, seek not to declare my word, but first seek to obtain my word.

And then shall your tongue be loosed. Then if you desire you shall have my power and my word, ye the power of God unto the convincing of men. But now hold your peace, study my word which hath gone forth among the children of men, and also study my word which shall come forth among the children of men, or that which is now translating." The Book of Mormon is not even complete yet. Right.

You can't get out in front of the book. Yeah. Can't get out in front of the prophet, which is just a good lesson for all of us. We can't get ahead of the prophet, can't get ahead of the book. I bet the Lord loves this problem. Don't you think he's just like, easy? I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go. He's like, Nope, actually you're not. So Chelsea, John, doesn't the Lord say later in section 57, 58, he gets a little frustrated with those who are compelled in all things.

They won't move. It seems like he has the opposite problem here. Right? We could all be a little more Hiram-like. Yeah. Here's your verse, Hank, for behold, it is not, verse 26, it is not meet that I should command in all things for he that is compelled in all things the same as a slothful and not a wise servant, wherefore he receiveth no reward. Really, I say men should be anxiously engaged like Hiram. Like Hiram.

I added that part. But men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause and do many things of their own free will and bring to pass much righteousness. So yeah, I think Hiram is aware of the power in him. He is an agent unto himself and he wants to get out there and preach the gospel and start saving souls, being a part of that great work of salvation. You got to love Hiram and his desire to serve. The Savior's going to teach him, though there is a time. It's not time yet.

I think it's important to know that in 22, study my word which hath gone forth among the children of men. Hiram, I also want you to be studying the Bible and other good books, but the Bible that I have already given you. And also study my word which shall come forth, that which is now translating. And so, Hiramam study. Prepare. The time will come, but it's right now is the time to prepare. In verse 23, behold thou art Hiram, my son. I love that line. You are Hiram and you're my son. 24, I love you for the integrity of your heart, and you just always want to do what's right. That's Hiram

I want to be like Hiram Because I'll be more like my Savior if I am Yeah, the Lord is just gonna guide him. He's so kind Let's go 17 Hiram behold according to your desires Yet even according to your faith shall it be done unto you 18 right now hire them keep my commandments, hold your peace, appeal unto my spirit at 19, cleave

unto me with all your heart that you may assist in bringing to light those things of which has been spoken, yea the translation of my work, be patient until you shall accomplish it. There's these one-liners appeal unto my spirit, cleave unto me with all your heart. Be patient. You mentioned Moses 1.39 earlier today where God says this is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Verse 20, Behold this is your work to keep my commandments. Yea with all your might, mind and strength. I just think that's a great verse for all of us. That I have my work, your work is to do your very best. You know we all make mistakes

like we've talked about earlier but your work is to keep my commandments the very best that you can and good things are going to happen. Love Hiram, his desires to get out there and the Lord's going to teach, train and tutor him about patience and obtaining the word of God so that when it's time, he's ready. Chelsea, what a great connection to Moses 1.39. If we go back to the discussion we were having, what is a parent to do? And John said, look, this isn't your work and your glory to exalt your children. And then Chelsea, you've just said, well, what is my work? Hmm. Doctrine and Covenants 1120.

Your work is to keep my commandments with all your might, mind and strength. Let's each do our jobs. I just love how he says this is your work. So I noticed this verse in my study coming into today and President Nelson has such a beautiful talk. We can do better and be better. April 2019. I love that you brought this up because I've read this before say nothing but repentance unto this generation. And what does that mean? What does that look like? He said, recently I found myself drawn to the Lord's instruction given through the Prophet Joseph Smith, say nothing but repentance unto this generation. This declaration is often repeated throughout

scripture. It prompts an obvious question, does everyone need to repent? And then he said the answer is yes. So it's humbling. He's like, okay, well, do I have the right view of what repentance is? Our sweet prophet today helps us. He says too many people consider repentance as punishment, something to be avoided except in the most serious circumstances. But this feeling of being penalized is engendered by Satan. He tries to block us from looking to Jesus Christ who stands with open arms, hoping and willing to heal, forgive, cleanse, strengthen, purify, and sanctify us. The word for repentance in the Greek New Testament is metanoeo. The

prefix meta means change. The suffix noeo is related to Greek words that mean mind, knowledge, spirit, and breath. I remember when he gave this talk and I've heard some similar things from him, and invitations about finding the joy of daily repentance. I've kind of wrestled with that, but when he broke down the word metanoeo and it means we change our mind we change our knowledge we change even our spirit he even said and the way we breathe and I'm like what in the world does that mean preach nothing but repentance and maybe even the way I breathe so read this part thus when Jesus asks you and me to repent he he's inviting us to change our mind, our knowledge,

our spirit, even the way we breathe. He's asking us to change the way we love, think, serve, spend our time, treat our wives, teach our children and even care for our bodies. And I thought about what does that even mean to change the way I breathe. I did a little study on that, nothing too crazy, but what I took from it was I can breathe out in gratitude. My breath, is it positive, is it negative? Are the words coming out, the thoughts coming in? I can breathe in gratitude more. I can use my breath praising God, strengthening those around me instead of tearing others down.

I think that's part of repentance is even how I use my breath, how I breathe, how I speak. Thus when, oh excuse me, so last part, nothing is more liberating, more ennobling or more crucial. To our individual progression then is a regular daily focus on repentance. Repentance is not an event, it is a process. It is the key to happiness and peace of mind. When coupled with faith, repentance opens our access to the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. He's preaching repentance here. He's fulfilling this verse that the Lord is revealing to the Prophet Joseph Smith in Hyrum, but we do need to repent.

But repentance just means change. And for many listening out there, these are just small changes by small and simple things, 1% better. These are incremental changes to become more sanctified in Christ. But yeah, I love the talk, We Can Do Better and Be Better by President Nelson. That's great. John, did you get it right? No, not even close. But I think- What are your thoughts, John? I think we're on the right track is what does it mean to repent?

Normal and natural to stay on course. We've talked about this before, Hank. Hank introduced me to something often known as the sealed portion called the Bible Dictionary. Bible Dictionary has some beautiful writing in it, and one of them is the definition of repentance and I think it might be the second paragraph, but it says a fresh view about God, about oneself, and about the world. And that doesn't sound like a scolding tone, but a joyful tone, doesn't it? Have a new view about who you are, about who God is, about what's going on here in the world. I also thought about

President Nelson's, if you were to go to an 11 year old and say, you need to gather Israel, they might not know what you mean. But if you said, quote, anytime you do anything that helps anyone, even take a step toward making sacred covenants with the Lord, you are helping to gather Israel. Oh, that's wonderful! That's being nice to somebody. That's even taking a step towards learning more about the gospel than, I think you're saying nothing but repentance. But so, maybe am I looking at it too broadly that way? Because I know it doesn't mean just repeat this word over and over again. I appreciate the discussion. I love that. I think another meaning for repentance is to come back or to turn or return. So often sin, we turn away from God, or repentance, we return or turn back towards God. If we're being kind to

someone or if we help anyone take one step closer to Jesus Christ, they are returning, but we also have to be going, I would think, that direction with them. Perhaps we're repenting together as we take steps closer to the Savior. I think that's really beautiful. I love that. I also had a note in my margin that Doctrine and Covenants is not just a book of revelations but a book about Revelation and I love verses 12 and 13 Put your trust in that spirit which leadeth to do good to do justly to walk humbly to judge righteously

And this is my spirit Verily verily I say unto you I will impart unto you of my spirit which shall enlighten your mind Verily, verily I say unto you, I will impart unto you of my spirit which shall enlighten your mind, which shall fill your soul with joy." So it's a book about Revelation 2. And I'm sure Hiram loved that advice. I hope we do too. That's a joyful way to think of it. Honestly, those are two or three of my favorite scriptures about how God speaks to us.

Teaching seminary and institute for years, I've had many students over the years just confused about thoughts that come to our minds. I'm sure we've all been there. Is this my thought? Is this the Holy Ghost? Should I do this? We wrestle, wrestle, wrestle and sometimes can frankly drive ourselves crazy with our own thoughts or just with thoughts that come to our minds. And the wrestle of is this a prompting? What

if I don't act on it? What if? How do I know? I think verses 12 and 13 are some of the most helpful guidelines when it comes to our thoughts. So this is often where I go is section 11, 12, 13. And if you have a thought, you'll just kind of go through this exercise with the student. Let's say you have a thought to text your friend Sarah. Sarah was an old friend you knew from middle school. She's great. You were friends then, but you've gone to different high schools now.

Since we're younger, we have cell phones and you have each other's numbers but now we're in high school and this thought just comes to your mind. Text Sarah. So we just kind of go through is this a bad thought? It doesn't come with a strong feeling it's just a thought. Text Sarah. You're just thinking maybe check on her. Is that bad? No. So verse 12, I say unto thee, put your trust in that spirit which leadeth to do good. You can trust the good thoughts that come. Even if at first they don't always make sense, but you have a thought, text an old friend. This actually did happen to me.

This is my true story. I'll use this scenario with my kids, maybe a middle school, but this happened a few years ago to text an old friend and I'll just call her Sarah. That's not her name, but I had a thought, text Sarah. And like many times, I kind of pushed it to the side. It was a random thought to me, but it was there. And I wasn't thinking about it, that old friend. It didn't come with a strong feeling, just a thought. I pushed it to the side, I kept going on my day, it came again. Text Sarah. I'm grateful I recognized it.

It was there, it was coming. Sometimes logically, we push some of these thoughts out. So we do need to pay attention to also recurring thoughts. But gratefully after, it was the second time, I thought, well, I don't know why, but maybe I should just text Sarah. So I did. And it was just a, Hey, Sarah, I know it's been a long time.

I just want to say, Hi, how are you? I don't have these experiences very often, but that day it was one of these experiences. Sarah texted back and said, how did you know? And I said, how did I know what? And how did you know I was having a horrible day? And I just needed to know someone cared. Well, I didn't know, but a loving Heavenly Father knows. So it's been really helpful for me that I don't need to sit here

and try to wrestle with all my thoughts. And is this from the Lord? Is this from me? And put your trust in that Spirit, which leadeth to do good, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously. Don't you love it that he says this is my spirit? He's trying to help us.

Verily I say unto you, I will impart unto you my spirit which shall enlighten your mind, which shall fill your soul with joy. But yeah, if we have a thought that comes and it's good, follow it. It's okay. If you're not sure and you need to go on your day, go on your day. But if that thought comes again, pay attention. If it's something good, we can just put our trust in good thoughts. I would make Section 11 verses 12 and 13 kind of our standard for, hey, Brother Smith, what does the Holy Ghost feel like?

How do I know if I'm feeling the Holy Ghost? The Lord identifies the Holy Ghost at the beginning and at the end. Put your trust in that Spirit, which leadeth to do good, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously. This is my Spirit. Occasionally, I'll talk to a young adult who's been in the church their whole life and they'll say something, Brother Smith, I don't know if I've ever felt the spirit. And I think what they mean is I...

I haven't felt the burning in the bosom as if that's the only way because that's my soapbox, because it's not the only way. Yeah. I think they very likely have the wrong idea of what it means to feel the spirit. So if we went to section 11 verses 12 and 13 and say, have you ever really wanted to do good, be good? Yeah. Have you ever wanted to be honest and to be humble and be teachable? Yeah, I feel that all the time. Have you ever wanted to not judge people harshly? Well, yeah, I feel that all the time. This is my spirit. It's so clear right there. John, say what you were going to say. We have attached ourselves to that phrase of burning in the bosom as if

that's the spirit and that's the only way the Spirit talks. And it isn't. The Doctrine and Covenants says that once to Oliver Cowdery in section 9. It says enlighten your mind over and over again, lots of different sections of you'll have clarity. And then that thing about to do good, to do justly. This reminds me of, is it Moroni 7? Mormon talking to Moroni about the Spirit of Christ is given to every man. It's going to lead you to do good things, to do justly, to walk humbly, judge righteously. And so, you have felt the Spirit, as a matter of fact. Yeah, and wasn't it our good brother Brad Wilcox that said, sometimes, for those of us who grew up in the church, we've been really blessed and maybe even a little bit spoiled.

I've been immersed in the gospel my whole life and the Holy Ghost that it's sometimes easier to know when the Spirit's not with you. Because you're like, oh, I don't feel good here. Oh, wow. So my normal is actually not normal for everyone else. I just usually feel pretty good, you know, and like a fish in water, so they don't think about it that they're surrounded by water, until they're out of the water and suffocating. And I think a lot of times that's us with the Holy Ghost. I'm grateful. I've just been really blessed of the gospel from a very young age. The Holy Ghost has been a part of my life and it has taken time for me to recognize that, oh my goodness, the Spirit has been with me a lot more than I realized. He's with us. We make those covenants with him, we partake of the sacrament and most days we go on our day and we think our normal good feeling is how everyone's feeling, but I think

a lot of that good feeling is the power of the Holy Ghost that is with us. It's the Spirit. I'm really grateful for that. I have a quote that I just love from Parley P. Pratt describing the effects of the gift of the Holy Ghost. Speaking of Hiram, he played a little part in helping Parley P join the church but this is what brother Pratt said he said the gift of the Holy Spirit adapts itself to all these organs or attributes it quickens all the intellectual faculties increases and larges expands and purifies all the natural passions and affections and adapts them by the gift of wisdom to their

lawful use. It inspires, develops, cultivates, and matures all the fine-toned sympathies, joys, tastes, kindred feelings and affections of our nature. It inspires virtue, kindness, goodness, tenderness, gentleness, and charity. It develops beauty of person, form, and features. It tends to help vigor, animation, and social feeling. It develops and invigorates all the faculties of the physical and intellectual man. It strengthens, invigorates, and gives tone to the nerves. In short, it is, as it were,

marrow to the bone, joy to the heart, light to the eyes, music to the nerves. In short, it is as it were, marrow to the bone, joy to the heart, light to the eyes, music to the ears, and life to the whole being. The gifts of the Holy Ghost and the Spirit. I love that. Boy, that guy could write. Yeah, he did okay. I remember my father telling me that he was 24 years old when he was investigating the church and people told him, read scripture. He said it was all gibberish.

I couldn't understand it. And they said, well, you have to pray. He said eventually things started to open up. Just reminds me of that where he said to me that the trees were more green, the sky was more blue. I felt like I was a couple of feet off the ground. And that sounds like parley peeper out there. Yeah. John, our friend, Al Carraway, she taught this lesson really well.

I heard her speak. She was trying to explain to the youth that she was speaking to what life was like before she was baptized and given the gift of the Holy Ghost and she said I Had good days. I was happy before she said but a good day was was like a Good job and a pizza She's like and that was good. I felt good. I felt happy I felt was good day and she said and now that I've experienced the Holy Ghost

and the gift of the Holy Ghost, it's expanded my view of what happiness actually feels like. And I think it was eye-opening for the kids to go, oh, so I do feel I almost always have the Holy Ghost with me. Do you remember this talk from Elder Bednar that we may always have his Spirit to be with us? He said that we sometimes talk about the Holy Ghost as if it's an occasional thing. I felt the Holy Ghost so strong at girls camp or F.S.Y. or testimony meeting. He said actually because the promised blessing is that we may always have the Spirit to be with us, we should attend to and learn from the choices and influences that actually separate us from the Holy Ghost.

So the question isn't when do you feel the Spirit? It's when do you not? Does that make sense? Yeah. He goes on to say, the Holy Ghost can tarry with us much, if not most, of the time, and certainly the Spirit can be with us more than it is not with us. As we become ever more immersed in the Spirit of the Lord, we should strive to recognize impressions when they come

and the influences or events that cause us to withdraw ourselves from the Holy Ghost. Sometimes as Latter-day Saints we talk and act as though recognizing the influence of the Holy Ghost in our lives is a rare or exceptional event. No, the covenant promise is that we may always have His Spirit to be with us. Our language is sometimes funny. The Holy Ghost was so strong, or the Spirit was so strong, as if the Holy Ghost gets stronger at girls camp or gets stronger at FSY. I love these places. This is where I'm really strong. We could speak of it as at girls camp, I became more in tune with the Holy Ghost. Yeah, at FSY, at testimony meeting. I got in tune with the Holy

Ghost rather than the Holy Ghost occasionally, once every couple months wants to show up in our lives. Does that make sense, John? Yeah, I like that. We hear the advice to stand in holy places and be not moved, but sometimes with our young people it's like, was invited to a party, is that a holy place or not? And it could be neutral.

I think of the story that Elder Gary E. Stevenson told about the young man who wanted to get that study abroad in Japan and learn Japanese, and they invited to a party. Well, is this standing in a holy place? I don't know. So they go and then you remember the story somebody starts passing out marijuana there on top of a building or something and The guy gets the feeling I shouldn't be here. Oh What a great moment that is that you're getting Revelation I shouldn't be here and you remember the whole story one says no, we'll just stay we'll pass it along It's no big deal

Which is hard to imagine he gets gets that feeling, I shouldn't be here and decides to leave. One friend goes with him, one stays. And you remember the consequences of that. They made a seminary video about it. It was such a good story called Leave the Party. Now contrast that with, here's Peter in the understatement of all time. There's Jesus, there's Moses, there's Elias on the Mount of Transfiguration, and Peter says, it's good for us to be here. So I'm glad you're saying that, that it can be that subtle even. I mean, you've been in a meeting and thought, I'm glad I came. It was good for me to be here. Maybe like you said, Hank, you're more in tune to a spirit that is always with us, but you know what, it was

good for me to be here. Just as we're talking about the gift of the Holy Ghost and feeling the Spirit and working with teens and young adults who are seeking to feel the Holy Ghost, they want the Holy Ghost in their lives. And I think you're spot on that sometimes we need to be careful if we're teaching a lesson and we pause and say, okay students, do you feel that? That's the Holy Ghost. And you have a kiddo in there that's just the best kid ever but maybe isn't feeling something. And I had an experience with

a student at Timpanoga Seminary years ago that came up to me after class and shared that she deals with really severe depression and has a very hard time feeling the spirit she feels like. And I know that that's real. You know, section 8, just a few sections before, God teaches that I will speak to your mind and your heart. So we need to keep that in mind also that not only does he speak to your mind and your heart. So we need to keep that in mind also that not only does he speak to us in our heart or through feelings but he speaks to our mind and he is going to speak to each of

us in a way you know if we're seeking that that we will understand and I really believe that that he wants to speak to all of his children and so something we may consider asking Heavenly Father if we're having a hard time recognizing spiritual promptings or different things in our lives is to ask, can we Father, to teach us how he speaks to us personally? Because maybe for some it's to their heart a lot more than their mind. It's wonderful if and when it can be both. The thoughts that are coming, we've established today that you can trust those good thoughts that come.

Also how do you discern the feelings that come? What if you're a huge feeler? How can you discern? Are they good? Are the feelings you're having leading you to do good? And we also need to discern our emotions and our feelings. For this sweet girl, she had a harder time feeling. She said, the Lord speaks to me a lot through music.

And sacred music has just been huge for me. And she said, and sometimes music that others might not think is so sacred, but just a good song. She said, I know the Lord has talked to me through music and that music has led me to do good. Just as we are doing our very best to discover the spirit, how God speaks to us. Yes, let's make sure we put our trust in those things that lead to do good. I think that's one of the most beautiful parts of this section, but also find comfort in knowing that God is speaking to you. I believe he's always seeking to talk to his children. Ask him to teach you how he speaks to you. If you feel like you're having a hard time discerning, is God even there? Is He hearing my prayers?

I do have a strong testimony that there is a loving Heavenly Father who hears and answers prayers, and that He cares about all of His children. And it just broke my heart when that student opened up that I can't feel the Spirit, I can't feel the Spirit. And we had a really good discussion about, well, maybe you don't need to feel something like perhaps I do. What is he saying to you? Are you paying attention to your thoughts?

And I don't know. I don't know. I thought it was always a feeling, not necessarily. You know, and so anyway, God is good and he will speak to his children. Chelsea, I want to ask you something about section 11. and he will speak to his children. Chelsea, I want to ask you something about Section 11. You're a teacher of teachers. So your role in seminaries and institutes in the organization is to take potential teachers and train them. I notice a lot of that type of language in Section 11.

Obtain my word, treasure up in your heart, study my word. So let's say there's someone listening who wants to be a teacher, a great gospel teacher, like unto Chelsea Chipman, like I want to teach like you. What did you see in this section that could help someone who wants to be a great declarer of the Word? Well, that's that's a cool question and super humbling, you know in In our profession the Savior is the master teacher it's always humbling to teach his gospel and to teach his word. For me in my first year as a pre-service trainer would be my title, a teacher of teachers and

a trainer of teachers. It's been really humbling for me to try to step into that role a little bit more of how do I now help teach, train, guide, and develop a good gospel teacher that teaches in the Savior's way. And so we talk a lot about how important it is to be Christ-centered in every lesson that we teach at Jesus Christ, no matter what we're talking about, how important that is. We talk about how important it is, I just feel like it goes right along with what the Lord is telling Hiram. We need to be scripture-based.

Not just our lessons, but we need to be ourselves. We need to be scripture-based. Not just our lessons, but we need to be ourselves. We need to get the Word in us. And that's what I see the Lord telling Hiram. The word seek keeps jumping off the page to me in verse 21. What are we seeking? Hiram, seek not to declare my word yet. Seek not to go just jump in a seminary classroom. We got to go through some training. But first seek to obtain my word. There is something to be said about the amount of time we individually spend in the scriptures

as gospel teachers. Correlates with the power in our classroom. We've got to pay the price. You have to pay the price. The Lord is saying, study, study, study. Verse 22 again, hold your peace, Hyrum. I love that line. The Lord probably says that to me a lot, hold your peace. Then he says, study, study my word, study. So if someone wants to be a great gospel teacher and all of us are working on this, we need to be studying. We need to study the word. It is part of the preparation of teaching his gospel. We study. We first seek to obtain his word and then our tongues may be loosed and something that the Lord does so masterfully. It's part of our preaching

if we're using that word Christ-centered, scripture-based, and we've got to be learner-focused. The Savior is always about the learner. Everything is about the learner. And He teaches the learner through His words. He teaches the learner about Himself. For us, we want all three of those together all the time. And when that happens, we find that students are learning by the power of the Holy Ghost that deepens their conversion to the Savior and His restored gospel. And that is what SNI is all about. We want to deepen conversion to Jesus Christ and His restored gospel. That's it. That is why we exist. And what a beautiful section to Hiram. In fact, if we can look at section 23 just really quickly, there's

evidence that Hiram got there. D&C 23.3, just real quick, we can go back to 11. This is just a cool little section that is actually given to five different individuals, but Hiram has won a series of five revelations, section 23 verse 3. Let's look at our date. So we're April 1830. This is right after the organization of the Savior's Church, which Hiram was one of those original six members of the church Which is pretty fun to note DNC 23 3 The Lord says behold I speak unto you Hiram a few words

for thou also art under no condemnation and thy heart is opened and thy tongue loosed and Thy calling is to exhortation and a strength in the church continually wherefore thy duty is unto the church forever and this because of thy family amen in section 11 seek not to declare my word higher and but first seek to obtain my word and then shall your tongue be loosed then if you desire you shall have my spirit and my power. Yea the power of God unto the convincing of men." That fun section 23 verse 3.

Hiram, thy heart is opened and thy tongue loosed. Go get them. You're ready now. You obtained the word. You have my spirit. You've learned how to trust the spirit. I'm going to lead you to do good. Hiram, I'm going to need you to trust the Spirit. I'm gonna lead you to do good, Hiram. I'm gonna need you to trust that. Your work is to keep my commandments, obtain the word, and I'm gonna loose your tongue. Hiram is known to have preached the restored gospel in the Book of Mormon as early as October 1830

at his father's home in Manchester, New York. His Sabbath sermon on that occasion pricked the heart of Ezra Thayer. Leading to his conversion, Thayer later recalled, �Every word touched me to the inmost soul. I thought every word was pointed to me. The tears rolled down my cheeks.� So, Hiram Smith pays the price to obtain the Word of God. It is in him. He has the Holy Ghost with him and he is a powerful missionary. He's going to go on multiple missions and share

the gospel like he really, really wanted to, May 1829. But the preparation for him and I think for each of us is just as important as the mission, as the preaching, as the knocking on doors or whatever this looks like. How many of us want to do much good in this generation but we don't know where to start? Perhaps the Lord is going to ask us, well, are you prepared? What are some ways we can more fully prepare ourselves if we want to be greater instruments in the Lord's hands? What can you do today to prepare yourself so that the Lord can use you as a powerful instrument in His hands? And Hiram is just such a great example of obtaining the Word. As we teach and train our awesome students. We have 13 pre-service programs. I just happen to be at BYU, but all over the church we have just fabulous people coming

through who have such great desires like Hiram to teach the gospel. They just want to more than anything. Whether it's in seminaries and institutes or somewhere else, God is going to use that desire and utilize your gifts through the power of the Holy Ghost to bless lives. And the more we can be prepared, the more He can use us. So yes, that scripture-based portion of what we teach and train, it's crucial. I spent 12 years of my career in seminaries and institutes and oh, I miss those days. Those kids, those teachers. Chelsea, I know that you'll push this compliment off and I don't know if it'll come across

in the recording. So John, you'll have to bear witness here. How many times have we been talking today and we mentioned a verse and Chelsea finishes that verse and tells us where it was. Right. She has treasured up the word, I think you could say. We'll say something and she'll say, well that's like Revelation, this. That's like... That's Acts chapter 8. Yeah, Acts chapter 8. Oh, you know, I remember that verse over here. So Chelsea, you live what you preach and again, I know you're gonna say, well, not so much.

But it's worked for you, hasn't it? The scriptures come to mind naturally. They're part of your walk, part of your talk. I love the scriptures. I went to Snow College out of high school and had early morning weight training that got us up way too early. So I was up about 5.3030 we're up lifting weights every morning and I walked on the basketball team at snow so I was nothing too crazy but I was blessed enough to walk on the team. We would lift weights every morning

I'd get home about 630 maybe 7 and then my first class started I believe about 830. I was so tired, I was very tempted to just go back to sleep for an hour before class. But I'm grateful. I think it must have been my mother instilling at a young age the power of getting the scriptures in in the morning. She did her best to just get us up and read the scriptures, but for some reason that continued. I'm grateful for that. At Snow college, I'd go lift weights. So cheesy, but John, you'll appreciate this. I would lift the iron rod and then I'd pick up the iron rod, but I would, I would.

But it made all the difference. Looking back, there was a power that I had in my day. And later when I went to basketball practice, I had extra strength. I thought it was just me being me, but looking back, I don't think so. Sincerely, I think it was my morning scripture study in prayer and I purposely would put institute classes right before basketball practice because it would kind of pump me up.

That's part of the enlightening of the soul in verse 13. Putting myself in places where God could strengthen me, lift me up, speak to me, and scripture study, it was sacred. My freshman year in college was like most people's, people are just up late. And so those quiet morning hours were really, became really sacred to me at Snow College and I had some really beautiful studies as I sought to obtain

the word before being called to the Czech Republic and doing my best praying that my tongue would be loosed, holy that language it was hard. And so then I needed to obtain not only the Word of God but the Czech language before my tongue could be loosed and you know we do our best but I have so many moments of the Lord loosening my tongue, speaking that language, enlightening my mind, understanding what someone on the street was saying to me when in any other situation I would have no business understanding or speaking that language. But that's the power of Jesus Christ and his work. I love Hiram and his example to us of wanting to just get out there and share the message of Jesus Christ and

the good news of the gospel and then choosing to be humble and patient. I mean, you're right, I need to prepare. I'm not quite ready. But then when the time was right, Hiram just went out there, preached the gospel, and he is going to stay true to Jesus Christ as brother Joseph through the end. I think his testimony and his legacy just lives on through so many of us and so grateful for his example of obtaining the Word. I love it.

I love it. Chelsea, didn't you tell us that your mom occasionally listens to the show and you just talked about her getting you up early. So we need to thank her right now if she's listening. She won't miss it. She's a great one to thank for me personally. No one is born with a testimony. Looking back, where did my faith come from? I do believe the Lord has been really good to me. He's blessed me with faith. But it's my mama getting me out of bed or to pray and read my scriptures and

My dad's a really really good man as well, but my mom would make some hot cocoa the minty chocolatey frothy one and Bride me like in middle school Well, probably even younger bride me to get out of bed with mint chocolate And I think initially that's kind of what would get me out of bed to read the Book of Mormon with my mom, but that pattern of seeking, we weren't perfect, not at all. But she tried. She did her best. And I'm so grateful for her efforts because my testimony was growing as a little kid and I didn't know it. We don't know what's going on inside. But those small and simple things from Mama Chipman, now Mama Cordner, she's a good mama and if we can just get our kids into the Word, good

things can happen. The Lord will speak to our children and our grandchildren as we study the scriptures together. So yeah, I have a very strong testimony of the scriptures and the power that they can bring into our daily lives and the blessings, the great blessing we have to even have the scriptures. And the sacrifice to get them here. John, you're exactly right. We mentioned Chelsea's mom, Marilyn Cordner, but I also need to mention Brother and Sister Hathaway, the Temple President and Temple Matron at the Star Valley Wyoming Temple, and they mentioned to us that President Hathaway's

mom Iris Hathaway, who is a hundred years old, listens to the podcast. So Iris, Sister Hathaway, we just wanted to say thank you for listening and you've done okay. A temple president's son and daughter-in-law, I think you could count that as a success, right, John? They walked up and they glowed too. Did you notice that, Hank? Here's the whole, wow, look at the mantle on this couple right here. That was really cool. It was beautiful. Well, Chelsea, thanks for spending your day with us. Thank you. Can we end on just the last three verses? Let's do it. D&C 11 these last three verses at the end. One reason I love the Doctrine and Covenants just how personal the Savior is, speaking in the first person to us in our dispensation.

So 28, behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I am the life and the light of the world. I'm the same who came unto my known and my known received me not. But verily, verily I say unto you, as many as receive me, to them will I give power to become the sons and daughters, of course, the sons of God, even to them that believe on my name. Amen. So powerful. I love the Doctrine and Covenants. I love how much the Savior introduces

himself to us, to Hiram. Hiram, I'm Jesus Christ, the Son of God. You know, verse 23, Behold thou art Hiram, my son. And this is who you are, this is who I am. It's the same for every listener. Everyone out there watching or listening, you are children of a loving God. He knows you by name. He is Jesus Christ. He is the Son of God. And I'm just so grateful for His goodness to us that when we mess up, He has backup plans. He's got us. When we have desires to serve, a student right now at BYU comes to mind he wants to serve a mission so badly he has the heart of Hiram but has some medical issues that are just making that difficult.

He can't serve yet. But I think the Lord would tell him, hey, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I have a plan for you. I'm so proud of you. Stay patient like in verse 19. Seek not to declare my word yet. Obtain my word. Be open to my spirit of what I'm teaching you about your life, your circumstance, and you will be the means of doing much good in this generation. I love our Savior and everything about him. He builds people up. He lives, he will continue to be with us

to the end of our lives as he was with Hiram and Joseph. It's all true and it's really beautiful to me. So thanks for having me today. Thank you, Chelsea. Harold B. Lee said, you cannot light a fire in another soul unless it is burning in your own. And we could tell that is happening with you. John, what a great day. Great day. With that, we want to thank Professor Chelsea Chipman for being with us today. We want to thank our executive producer,

Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen, and John, every episode. We remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. Thank you, Steve. We hope you'll join us next week. We're going to continue on in the Doctrine and Covenants on Follow Him.