Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 102-105 Part 1 : Dr. Scott Woodward

Episode Date: September 11, 2021

Does salt have an expiration date? Dr. Scott Woodward explains how  and why salt symbolizes eternity and how our covenants make us the "salt of the earth," as we discuss Sections 102 and 103--the instructions regarding membership councils, and the Saints' attempt to redeem Zion. Section 102 will become your favorite meeting minutes as Hank, John, and Dr. Woodward discuss one of the seven parables in the Doctrine and Covenants.Shownotes: https://followhim.co/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannel"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith and I'm John by the way. We love to learn, we love to laugh, we want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. Hello my friends, welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith and I am here with my worthy and capable co-host, John, by the way. Hello, John, by the way. An intro ripped from the headlines or rather, verse seven of section 102. Right from the scriptures. That's exactly what I think that's about me, but I'll take it.

Thank you. Yes, well, I'm sure it has a double meaning. Hey, we want to remind everybody to find us on social media, on Instagram and Facebook. If you want to watch the podcast, you can watch John and I in our guest every week, if you'd like. You can find us on YouTube. Show notes, go to follow him.co, follow him.co. And of course, we would love it if you'd take the time to rate and review the podcast. That actually really helps us a lot. John, I want to add something. There's not only show notes, but look around. There is a transcript.

There's a transcript to follow him. People in my war didn't know that existed and they're very excited now and going down to Walmart and buying all kinds of printer paper and making, putting out transcripts. So they can print out and bind the transcripts. Bind it. Mark it. Yeah. Yeah.

John, we're in for a treat. It's every week we're in for a treat, but I'm especially excited because I'm here with someone who who makes me feel like I can just be myself. Tell us who we have today. We are happy to welcome back, Scott Woodward, that we've had before. So glad he's here. we have today. We are happy to welcome back, Scott Woodward, that we've had before. So glad he's here. Dr. Scott Woodward graduated, got his PhD

in Instructional Psychology and Technology from Brigham Young University. He's been teaching in the Church Educational System for nearly two decades. I don't know how old this bio is, is it two and a half yet? He's currently a member of the faculty at BYU Idaho, BYU Idaho Religion faculty. He's a managing director of Doctrine and Covenant Central. I hope you'll check that out.

It's kind of a partner with Book of Mormon Central, a rich resource of gospel scholarship and all things related to the Doctrine and Covenant. I love those websites and they've been so helpful. We're so glad to have you back. Dr. Wordward, thank you for coming. Oh, thanks so much for having me back. It's an honor. Yeah.

Scott Woodward, honestly, your doctor wouldward, I know, but to me, you're Scott and you're just somebody who I just like to be around. You're just, you make people feel good. Yeah, likewise, brother, thank you so much. Make people, I was sad when you went up to Rexburg and left us down here in Provo, but I'm glad that they have you up there. Hey, I want to I want to tell everybody if you want to have an awesome experience go back and listen to episode nine way back a long time ago, John, if you remember,

we weren't very good at this. Not like we're great at it now, but we really weren't good at it then. good at this, not like we're great at it now, but we really weren't good at it then. And Scott joined us for some commentary on sections 18 and 19. Do you remember John? He said, put Martin and the Savior forehead to forehead and they're having this discussion. I mean, if people have asked me, what's your favorite episode? And that's one that always comes to mind is Scott Woodward on our on episode nine. I don't even know if you remember it's Scott. You've done so much since then, but that was a good day for us.

Those sections are some of my favorites, so that was awesome. It's interesting you would mention that Hank. I actually just this week got an email. Thank you for helping me change my my my feelings, my perception about Martin Harris. And that was a lot of what you did, Scott. So thank you. Yeah, you know, can I say the good people of Clarkston, Utah, after that when they reached out and said,

we like that you paint Martin Harris in a good light. Could you come and talk to us? So last week I just spoke at Martin Harris's grave side to a bunch of wonderful people in Clarkston and we just talked to Martin Harris for like an hour. It was magical. And it was on the podcast, Scott, that they heard that. Yeah, they were listening to this podcast and that episode and then we made that connection and blessed my life getting to know those people and just some of the salt of the earth. And being right there at Martin Harris's grave side, just talking about Martin Harris for an hour was just so fun.

But we're not doing sections 18, 19 today. We are far ahead, Scott. We are going to jump into section 102 of the Doctrine and Covenants. It's February of 1834. So the church is coming up upon four whole years of Organization So far, I'll just give a little background and let you take it from there things in Missouri are not going well with the saints being driven out in the fall of 1833 and here in 1834 Joseph is in Ohio

Yeah, so section 102 is actually not a revelation. How about that? Section 102 is actually not a revelation. How about that? Section 102 is, wait for it. The minutes of a meeting, the minutes of a meeting is what we got here. This is minutes of a meeting edited by Joseph Smith to make sure that the scribe got it right and he kind of tweaked and edited it. And this is what we have. Oh, I don't know if there's anything that's quite exciting.

Are you on pins and needles now? I mean, this is good. And it's not just the minutes of a meeting. This is the minutes of a meeting where they organize the very first high council of the church. Oh, okay. I know. If you don't know, if you're teaching Sunday school or you're trying to get your children's

attention with scriptures, I think you just lead with that. I think if you just lead with that, do you guys want to study about the minutes of a meeting where the first high council was organized? I think, I mean, you really don't have to. You've got them in the palm of your hand at that point. And up there seat. Yeah. That's right.

Because when most teenagers hear about the high council, the only thing they know is that's the one Sunday, where somebody shows up and acts like the stake presidency lives on another planet. We bring you greetings from the stake presidency, right? We bring you greetings. We come in peace. We come in peace. We come in peace. The love and greetings of the stakes rest you see, right? It's green ingredients. We come in peace.

We come in peace. The love and greetings of the states, right? That's right. Oh, that's all that love and all that greeting. That started right here in section 102 of the Doctrine and Seven. Okay, so all the high counselors out there, we please don't write us a lot. We love you.

We do our love greetings too. Yeah. One of my friends, he said, you know, some church callings have on the scale of glory to work ratio. It's different sort of. He said, hi, high councilman seems to have a high glory, low work ratio. They get recognized every time they come into the meeting, like to recognize brother Johnson from the high council, you know, and then the stake executive secretary is like, I work no glory, right, or the word, the word

clerk is just working like crazy, it's no love anyway. So, so here's the situation. So the minutes, the minutes, the minutes. So Joseph Smith had, this is not the first time he had convened a high council. Joseph is, that's one of the geniuses of church organization is councils, right? And section 42 is actually where that starts in the law. I remember that section the law. And in the law, it says that difficult situations, particularly dealing with church disciplinary action, should be dealt with by bringing the person before the church, the elders of the church.

And so Joseph would convene councils to arbitrate, adjudicate church decisions, especially with church disciplinary type stuff. So they're just called as needed, but as the church is growing and things are getting a little more complex, there needs to be what Joseph called a standing council, kind of like a council that's like, always the council, they're the guys, right? And so on February 17th, 1834,

Joseph told a group of priesthood leaders that he would, quote, show the order of councils in ancient days as shown to him by vision. So this isn't the vision. This isn't the revelation, but this is coming from some revelation. Joseph never recorded down. These are kind of the fruits of that vision, if you will. But let me read a little bit of what Joseph said. And this is from the minutes that Joseph edited, that becomes section 102, but this part got edited out, but it's in the original on Joseph Smith papers.

So this, this, whatever you're about to read us, did not make. It didn't make that. So here's what the men say. He's like, quote, brother Joseph said that he would show the order of councils in ancient days as shown to him by vision, the law by which to govern the council in the church of Christ. Joseph said Jerusalem, anciently, was the seat of the church council in ancient days. The apostle Peter was the president of the council and he held the keys of the kingdom

of God on the earth and was appointed to this office by the voice of the Savior and acknowledged in it by the voice of the Church. Then Peter had two men appointed as counselors, Joseph explained, and in case Peter was absent his counselors could transact business or either one of them and the president could also just transact business alone. He said it was not the order of heaven in ancient councils to plead for and against the guilty as in our current judicial court. Interesting. He said, but every counselor, when he arose to speak, should speak precisely, according to evidence and according to the spirit of the Lord, that no counselor should attempt to scorn the guilty when his guilt was manifest. So no shaming here, but he says that the person

accused before the high council had the right to one half the members of the council to plead his cause in order that his case might be fairly presented before the president that a decision might be rendered according to truth and righteousness. And then he ended by saying that that's that's an example that ancient order is the example for our high priest today. So they voted on it all present and he said who here is willing to come under the present order of things as I've described and it was considered, it was unanimous that they wanted to all put themselves under the will of God as pertaining to counsel. So that's kind of the interesting. If there's a revelatory part of Section 102, I think that's it. That Joseph learned about how ancient councils were run.

And so in some ways, this is like a restoration of like ancient councils to some degree. So yeah, so that's that's that. So they call it in the section heading, you can see it's called the form and constitution of the high council. This is the form and constitution. Now they said that there were some problems in the minutes, some people were like, I don't know if I jotted that down right with Joseph was kind of talking fast.

And so they said, Joseph, could you look over the minutes and let us know if this is accurate? So he said sure he took him home on the 18th, he's going through them, then on the 19th, they reconvened and he said, I've gone over them as best I could. And I think this is accurate as it gets. He said, let's read it.

They read it three times. They read section one, two, three times. And people were listening carefully. And then there was like one thing tweaked. And then they all agreed, this is perfect. This is excellent. So that's how section one, two comes about. And it's, do you think it's a pattern, Scott, they're writing this down for a pattern for

future counselors, this to run their council. This will be the pattern, not only yet because this makes allowance both for the standing high council in Kirtland and then the creation of any other high councils as needed. And you can even have like little ad hoc high councils called and branches of the church if you need to section versus 24 and 25 say. So yeah, this is going to be the pattern. And today remarkably high councils run a lot like this. So yeah, they still do. I remember drawing numbers in verse 17 Yes drawing numbers even an odd still is done to this day

Yeah, yeah, so this is this has been the governing sheet that how does it say that the constitution the constitution of ag council so Are there any specific verses that that we ought to make sure we touch on? Yeah, so let's look at verse two. This gives us the sort of mission statement for high councils. The high council was appointed by Revelation for the purpose of settling important difficulties, which might arise in the church, which could not be settled by the church or the Bishop's Council to the satisfaction of the parties. And so that's, I think,

the key in our current church handbook, if you look up anything about disciplinary councils and when a council should be called, it'll talk about, well, if it's a certain degree of complexity or difficulty, then the high council should be involved. And then it will say, CDNC 102 versus 2. Yeah, this is still the government. So if a sort of bishops sort of disciplinary council, there's certain things that a bishop can adjudicate as a judge in Israel, but there are some things that need to defer to the stake, and then the stake president may say, this would be one that we want to call in the full high council over it, right? Typically, if someone's going to lose their membership in the church, for instance, that's

going to be pretty serious. We want to make sure we have the wisdom of the whole group there. I like this because inherent in the statement in verse two, the purpose of settling important difficulties, it's almost as if Joseph and the Lord, I would think, are saying, you are going to have difficulties. It's normal. It's normal for human beings to have difficulties. Sometimes we think if we're having any difficulties

at all in our ward, stake, or family, we're doing something wrong, when no, the Lord inherently is saying, you're going to have difficulties and I'm going to give you a way to settle these. That's right. That's right.

It's okay to have them. I think it's interesting that in verse 13, it allows for different levels of difficulty. Yeah. Well, if it's, they'll decide whether it's difficult or not and if it is not two of the counselors Shall speak upon it, but if it is thought verse 14, but if it is thought to be difficult for she'll be appointed if more difficult six I think that's fascinating Yeah, yes, there's almost a preliminary Vote taken like how difficult is this is this is this gonna require?

All the stops or can we handle this? Which is to yeah, that's right. And I love I love that the the built-in safety for the accused, right? Someone who perhaps has violated something versus verse 15 the accused in all cases has a right to one half of the council to prevent insult or injustice. Meaning so half of the high council is going to make sure that they're not being treated poorly, they're not being shamed, right? That they're what they're doing, how they're being represented, how the evidence is being examined is fair. And that's, that's awesome. That's interesting. The rest of it.

Oh, yeah, go ahead. Oh, Scott, I was just going to say it's interesting to me because occasionally today, 2021, you'll see high council meetings coming up in the news. And you never hear from the churches side, but from 106,102, we learned that whoever this high council was for, half that room was there to watch over them being protected. Sometimes it's painted as if someone is marched in there, and it's the church against this individual, where the Lord is saying, no, yeah, where the Lord is saying, no, that's not how it is. So anyone who sees one of these on the news can know, half

that room was designated to be on the side of the individual brought in. I'm glad you brought that up. I think that is one of my favorite nickname for the Savior. I might change my mind tomorrow, but today it's advocate. And you come into that, if you are in a membership council, you have half the room or your advocates there. come into that, if you are in a membership council, you have half the room or your advocates there and are acting like, I love that, no, to prevent insult or injustice. Someone is there on your side. Yeah, I would say, John, everyone's on your side, but these people are specifically assigned

to be on, to watch out for you. And I think that's just an important thing because the way I've seen these painted in the news seems to be 15 against one. Right. Bring them in and let's get them. Line them up against the wall and write, no this. And what are the others doing, Scott? I think it might be good to talk about that. The others are there to look at what?

Yeah, they're there to protect the good name of the church. Yeah. So half have the interest of the accused and half have the interest of the church in mind. Right, this isn't all mercy, all justice. This is supposed to be a blend of like, just right, and then the president is supposed to weigh all the evidence

and in a prayerful attitude come to a conclusion of what should be done and what should be done should always be geared toward helping the pertinent. We're talking right now about disciplinary type of councils but high councils are used for other things but in disciplinary councils always about how do we help that person truly repent, right? You know, the worth of souls, okay, we're back to section 18 for a second. The worth of souls is great in the side of God, right? Therefore, right? Therefore cry repentance. And so these counsels are, some sins are serious and they need to be as far as helping that person repent of a serious, egregious sin is going to take sometimes the wisdom and and and and prayerful action of a group of of men like this, like the high council and the and the president will make a decision after hearing all the evidence. And then the high council needs to then sanction that.

And if anyone feels like, I don't know that we got all the evidence. So it's like, for instance, in, uh, in verse 19, after the evidence as our heard, the counselors accuser and accused have spoken, which they get to speak for themselves, verse 18 says, uh, so everyone gets a voice here. The president shall give a decision, verse 19 says, according to the understanding which he shall have of the case and call upon the 12 counselors' distinction, the same by their vote. But verse 20 says, should the remaining counselors who have not spoken or any one of them after hearing the evidences and pleading impartially discover an error in the

decision of the president, they can manifest it. And the case shall have a re-hearing. We want to get this right. And by the way, in this instance, in this setting, the president was the president of the church. Joseph Smith was the president of this high council, which I love the humility here. The president of the church could get it wrong. For sure, that's why we have a council. And if someone thinks that maybe he's out of line, they ought to bring it up and say, I think we maybe we missed an important piece of the evidence here, President. Can we, can we reconsider that? And then verse 21, if after a careful re-hearing any additional light is shown upon the case, then the decision will be altered

accordingly, if not, then the previous decision will stand. So I just think this is layered with just checks and balances, right? Any one of us can make snap judgments, but it's not very often that a group of, I think humble, dedicated people of, well, we got 12 high counselors, plus a presidency. So we got 15 people who are just trying to get it right and trying to figure out the best way to help this person repent. Like that's going to, I think, I think they're

going to get it right. And if they don't, which is possible, then let's reexamine the evidence until we do. So just a lot of layers in here just to make sure it's done well and done right. And that justice is done. But what would you say to a teenager who struggles with the idea that we have these at all, right? Like someone who says, this just seems kind of mean that you bring someone in. It seems so unloving to bring someone in. And yet, I would say, anytime I've been a part of any of these, they've always been very positive and very uplifting and very, you know, very good. Where I can see if you've never been a part of it, it seems maybe a little more scary and difficult.

So any advice for teachers or for parents who are trying to explain this to their youngsters? Well, give it a shot. Okay. The church handbook, the current handbook has a great little one, two, three purposes of church disciplinary councils. Number one, help protect others. If there's somebody who has some tendencies to hurt people, whether physically or emotionally, any abusive language or actions that they're taking to other people. Those people need to be identified and talk to and try to, we're trying to protect other people, maybe from someone's negative influence, maybe it could be like they're always like

doctrally digging it. People are trying to sow seeds of doubt, you know, that can be a thing. So of course any physical, emotional, sexual abuse, anything like that, we're trying to protect people. Totally. So, spiritual, emotional, physical, all of that. So, protect others is number one. Number two is then help that person access the redeeming power

of Jesus Christ through repentance. That person, clearly by the time they're in front of a high council, they have not been repenting on their own to a point where it's gotten so serious that we need it now. Let's see if we can help you. Let's see if we can help you. And then the third is then to protect the integrity of the church. So what does that mean Scott?

To you. So Sussan cannot, especially serious sin. You can't just turn a blind eye. This can start to stain the reputation of the church, right? If people are just allowed to just kind of do whatever, and there's no real consequences, we kind of say, oh, we shouldn't be doing that. But then there's actually no real consequence. That sort of taints the name of the church and the integrity of the doctrine.

I think you're exactly right, John. I bet you thought of Alma chapter 4. I'm starting to, we've been to companions for so long. I'm starting to think for you, but I bet you thought of Alma 4 where Alma, the younger sees that the wickedness of the church was a great stumbling block to those who did not belong to the church. Right? And he's got to go on this reactivation tour. The same thing happens right with his father, Alma the elder, back at the end of the book of the book of Mosiah, where he has to put in this policy of basically what we would call excommunicating people if they're not repenting.

And you can see how hard it is for him. So here it is straight out of the Book of Mormon, twice, really close to each other. They end up with a book of Mosiah in the beginning of Alma. Yeah, and then even, and I was thinking of Maroni, and Maroni 6 has this little tiny handbook of instructions in Maroni 6,

and also talks, mentions briefly, kind of a church council like this. I wanted to add that, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm looking in the newest handbook and it doesn't use the phrase disciplinary council anymore. They're called membership councils. Oh, you're right. You're right, sorry I said that.

No, I thought that's membership council. Yeah, and I thought that makes sense because I remember on the height council where someone was trying to come back and yet it was called a disciplinary council, and I thought, no, it's probably the wrong word. It was more like a reinstatement or something, which is what happened.

But it may be the idea of membership council is great, and I think, and also the words disfellowshipped and excommunication aren't in the manual anymore. It talks about membership with draw, or a temporary membership restriction, something like that. Yeah.

And Scott, I would, I hear you saying one thing that, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds like to me you're saying, listen, if someone is to this point, the unloving thing would be to do nothing. Totally. Just let it go. Damn me. That for the reputation of the church. For others.

Yeah. Yeah. That could put other people in jeopardy. Yeah. So this is a membership council is the loving step to protect people and protect the church. When, man, I just don't see it painted that way often by others. But you're right, Hank. Those who have been involved and have been on a high councilor, have been in a bishop I just don't see it painted that way often by others who. But you're right, Hank.

Those who have been involved and have been on a high counselor, have been in a bishopric and seen these things. I have very positive, beautiful feelings about some of those meetings and the power of, and the spirit of the atonement being made manifesto, has been amazing when I've been involved in those. And you're right. And I'd say also, John, not only are they powerful for just the people there,

but also I would, if not my experience, the people who come in for the membership council, the member who is coming in, has a positive experience. In my experiences with it, they've had a positive experience. In my experiences with it, they've had a positive experience. It's been, and it's been very humbling for me to see how they proceed through this, right? What a beautiful and humbling thing, because I think everyone in the room was thinking the same thing I was.

I don't know if you were John ever, but I was thinking, well, there, but for the grace of God, go I, right? Just someone ended up in a bad place. Yeah. Elder Valored has a whole article about church disciplinary councils back when they were called back in 1990 and enzyme article September 1990. But he told about a story of a relief society president. I'll just I'll just quote him. He said, a woman who had been a relief society president tells of the love and support she received during a painful period of disfellowshipment when they used to call it that. She said, quote,

when the brethren of the council listened to me, I could feel love as I had never felt it before. I could fill love as I had never felt it before. They all wept with me. And then with agony, she acknowledges, Elder Ballard says, quote, every member of the church must realize that he or she is capable of sinning. Like you said, hang there, but for the grace of God, go, I, this is a release society president talking who went through something that I'm sure she didn't plan on going there. And yet she went there. And now here she is trying to be helped in how can I repent? She said, how I have paid for fooling myself about what I was doing, right? The justification, the rationalization.

And so this is great. Bring brought up, you know, and oftentimes, by the way, this is initiated by the member themselves, right? This isn't, there's no witch hunts going on out there. There may be cases where the, cases where someone might be called in if they're belligerent, if they're harming people, of course, but oftentimes these are initiated by the person as they want to fully repent.

And so what a courageous thing and what a beautiful system is set in place. Yeah. Wow, you did something with 102. I did not know what we could do. Here we were joking about the minutes of a meeting, Scott. And you were a sandbag in us. You said you were going to bring it.

Can I just say one more thing? It's bleed to do. Yeah. Verse 23, I think this is interesting. Just to note that this is not just for disciplinary type things, but it says in the case of difficulty respecting doctrine or principle, if there is not a sufficiency written to make the case clear to the minds of the council, then the president may inquire and obtain the mind of the Lord by revelation. These could be places where difficult doctrines are wrestled

with. And I love that the Lord says, first, look in the scriptures. Scriptures are doctrinally primary. And if it hasn't been sufficiently made clear in the scripture, then the President can inquire the Lord and receive revelation. I just think that's interesting. I'm kind of a doctrinal guy. I love just to scour the scriptures, looking for what's consistently taught and repeated,

and so I can have doctrinal confidence in what I'm teaching or how I'm trying to live my life. And I love the Lord just puts a primary point to say, is it in the scriptures? Is it clear in the scriptures? If it's not, then there's actually a system in place where the mind of the Lord can be had by revelation. So that can help. It's got, I think that principle can help us in our own lives. Oftentimes, I think, and I think if we go way back in our episodes, John, you'll remember Dr. Lillie Anderson talking about this. She said, oftentimes, we go to the Lord with questions when the answer has been made clear over and over and over in the scriptures. I remember

she used the example of a woman who said, well, I just haven't received an answer of should I move in with these roommates who are doing these terrible things, right? I keep going to the Lord and asking him, and I don't get a yes or no. And she said, well, do you think they'll influence you to do bad things as well? Yeah, I do. She said, I think that's been pretty, it made pretty clear in the scriptures, what you should do about that, right? And no wonder you're not getting an answer. It's in the scriptures pretty clearly.

So it reminds me and both of you will recognize this statement, check the syllabus, right? When the student comes with a question, I said that was in the syllabus. It's almost as if the Lord is saying, yeah, I've answered this one already a couple of times. So go ahead and look in the scriptures. I like that Scott. It might be interesting. Do you guys want to hear some stories? Can we just tell some stories? Please do. Do you want to know what the very first case was that the High Council adjudicated or sat in council about?

Do you want to hear this? Is it this specific council? This council two days after, two days after, they were formed. February 19th, a brother named Curtis Hodges was accused by brother Ezra Thayer of the following charges. Listen to this. The brother Hodges, when he preached, he talked loudly and incoherently. And when people tried to correct him, he insisted that his behavior was inspired by a good and proper spirit.

But the truth was, his behavior was hurting the work of God. And so they could be the counsel. This guy, when he started to talk and he says, yelling and people can understand what he's saying. And he's like, what? The spirit is inspiring me. So the evidence was heard. So this eyewitness says, yeah, the other day, he was yelling so loudly that some neighbors were alarmed. They came out to see if someone was hurt. And another one's like, yeah, whenever he breaches, he puts a damper on the meeting and it's not edifying.

And so, so Joseph Smith is listening here to this case, right? And at the end, they had the other high councilman who's supposed to then sort of make sure he's being treated well. Right. No insol or no insults or injury. Yeah. And so the meeting a minute say that one member of the Council tried to speak on behalf of Brother Hodges, but could say, but few words. So he didn't get loud. It doesn't sound like the guy who was speaking on behalf of Brother Hodges. No, he's like, I don't really have a lot to say.

And maybe in him. And then Joseph Smith said, well, let me see if I can sum up the evidence. And he gave us his decision that the charges had been fairly sustained by good witnesses and the Brother Hodges ought to have confessed when he was first rebuked by Brother Thayer and that if he said this, if he had the spirit of the Lord at the meetings when he hallowed, he must have abused it and grieved it away. That's what Joseph said, and all the counsel agreed with the decision. Brother Hodges, I like this, he then arose and said that he saw that he was wrong.

He never saw it before, and he appeared to feel thankful that he saw it, and he said that he had learned more during this trial than he had since he came into the church. He confessed freely his error and said he would attend to overcoming that evil, the Lord being his helper So that ended ended really well Very first one. Yeah, it's a great to cancel her to cancel their case. Yeah, the Lord game a bit of a softball on this Softball, how about this one to you? And it is quite humorous

Yeah, and it is quite humorous. Yeah, I don't think anyone, I don't know that any high councils are being convened about such things today, but that's a fun story. He was loud and he was in coherent. My favorite witness, that witness, I was there, your honor. I heard it. Yeah, the neighbors came out and they were like, who's hurt? No, nothing. It's just brother Hodges.

Brother Hodges is just preaching again. And so I'm so sorry. I love that he said he'd learned so much. That is a really nice thing to ask him for a story. Right. I'd never learned so much in my life since I joined the church. Then what I've learned here in that simple council So what a humble what a humble brother Hodges, right?

Awesome. Okay, then the next day you guys want case number two than the next day Wow, this there's a busy counts. I mean yeah, the very next day they were they were so this is two in a row The question of whether disobedience to the word of wisdom, which had just barely been revealed, right? Whether disobedience to the word of wisdom was a transgression sufficient to deprive an official member from holding an office in the church after having it sufficiently taught to him.

Wow. The context was that a church meeting in Pennsylvania, or some Pratt and Lyman Johnson were there, and some members refused to partake of the sacrament because the elder administering it did not observe the word of wisdom. Lyman said that they're justified in doing that because the elder's in transgression, but Oarsom Pratt, he said, no, the church is bound to receive the sacrament from an elder so long as he retained his office or his license.

So the council was like, this is a six-counselor difficulty level. Yeah. Yeah. So they all spoke, they heard the evidence, and then Joseph the president, he said that no official member in this church is worthy to hold an office after having the word of wisdom properly taught them, and then they neglect to comply or obey them. And everyone sustained it. So, boom. So day two on the job, they're already, right? So the first one's kind of a church disciplinary and this one's more of a, what's this, what should

be the policy, right? So they're kind of determining policy as well. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks Scott. Those are both really fascinating stories. There you go. One out of two.

This is our first council and correct me if I'm wrong, but our second council is going to be go. One of this is our first council. And correct me if I'm wrong, but our second council is gonna be in Missouri, right? Our second high council. That's right. Yeah, we're gonna talk about that later on. That's right. Okay.

Okay. So transitioning to section 103, yeah. You guys ready for that? Yes, let's go to 103. All right. So 103, look at the date. The date is February 24th. We're just, we're just a week after the high council has been organized. And guess what happens? A difficult case. Another difficult

case comes before the high council. This case is not a disciplinary case. This is a case of, well, let's just get into the history. So, let's back up now. Let's now go to July of 1833. This is on July 20th. That's when mob violence breaks out against the saints in Jackson County, right, over in Missouri. On the 23rd of July, the church leaders signed an agreement to leave Jackson County, half of them by January, the next half by the next April. Well, then on the 9th of August, Oliver Cowdry arrived in Kirkland to tell Joseph what's happening. And then on the 31st of October through the 17th of November, that time period, that's when

that time period, that's when the hellish actions of the mob break out, where mob violence recommences with satanic vigor and the fleeing saints gather mainly up north in Clay County, Missouri, and church leaders are sending letters to Joseph Smith saying, what do we, what do we do, right? Meanwhile, uh, no, now Scott, if I, if I remember, if I remember right, it's because we had agreed to leave, but then hired a lawyer in Alexander Donovan and the rest of his men and they said, well, if you're going to hire a lawyer, that means that you're going to fight this extradition, uh, kicking us, kicking you out of the county. And so they picked up the intensity of the persecution because we had actually tried by legal means

to stop the ousting, right? Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, and so now they're seeking guidance. What do we do, right? So section 101, which you guys covered last week, was received on the 16th and 17th of December, and the Lord gave the Saints guidance and hope what to do in that situation. That doesn't make it till January 22nd. So before Section 101 makes it to Missouri, Missouri church members hold a

conference where they determine that they need to send two representatives, the 900 miles from Missouri back to Kirtland to counsel with the prophet. So, Parley P. Pratt and Lyman White volunteer, and according to Parley P. Pratt, he said that the conference instructed him to, quote, counsel with President Smith and the church at Kirtland and take some measures for the relief or restoration

of the people, thus plundered and driven from their homes. So they start off and they make it in Kirtland in February. They make it to Kirtland in February. And this is a day or so. This might be the day they arrive or a day or two after I can't remember. But section 103, so, so, so, so, one-to-one is on its way. Yep, kind of they can cross paths.

Yep. Okay. Yeah. And, and then when they make it here, Joseph says we should convene the high council. That's, that's what happens here, right? So they need to hear, they need to hear what's happening, and they need to help make some decisions on this. So here they are. So let's paint the picture. So the high council is first organized on the 17th of February. One week later, now they're convened.

Other members were in attendance too, just to kind of watch, but the high council's kind of the hub. And other members were in attendance too, just to kind of watch, but the High Council's kind of the hub. And they're here to hear from Parley P. Pratt and Lyman White who just arrived. And they came to ask, quote, when, how and by what means Zion was to be redeemed from our enemies. And after hearing these men just give their report on the conditions and what was happening and then to hear that heartfelt question. Then Joseph declares his intentions. He stood and declared his intention to travel to Missouri to assist in redeeming Zion and between 30 and 40 conference attendees volunteered to go with him. And so sometime either during that meeting

or just after that meeting, section 103 was received confirming that decision and giving instruction about that. Wow. It's, Scott, I kind of heard this in the way you explain that, but it's fantastic that the Lord had these men prepared as a council before partly in Lyman show up as they're actually on their way.

Right? That's right. They're ready to interrupt this. Yeah. You know, it's interesting as well, our listeners might be interested to know. I didn't know this as I first heard the stories of the saints being kicked out of Jackson County, Missouri. But when they came to the council, parly reported that those who had been driven away from their lands and scattered abroad had actually gained the sympathy of many of the people up north in Clay County who were as kind and accommodating to the refugees as could reasonably be expected, he said. And from then they could obtain food and raiment in exchange for their labor

in so much that they were comfortable. So here's a group of people who've been displaced, their refugees, but they've fallen on a lot of a kind group in the Clay County. Nevertheless, Parley says, the idea of being driven away from the land of Zion, pained their very souls, and they desired of God by earnest prayer to return to that land with songs of everlasting joy. So what can be done? What can be done? It's interesting that you should say that, Scott, because we usually talk about

Quincy Illinois as the compassionate town, right, that takes us in. But that's not going to happen until 1838, 1839, right? Fall of 1838 in the beginning of 1839. But here in 1833 was another county, right? You said Clay County that took these refugees in from the South, from Jackson County, and there's one man in particular, his name is Michael Arthur Arthur and if you go there

There's a monument where he they would have called him a Jack Mormon at the time because he was a Mormon sympathizer Yeah, a Mormon sympathizer Where he allowed oh, I think it was somewhere around a thousand Latter-day Saints to live on his property and he hired them to work around a thousand Latter-day Saints to live on his property and he hired them to work. I don't know if they survived without people like Michael Arthur. Yeah, so it's not just Missouri, it's not just full of these wicked vindictive people, but yeah, just something about Jackson County. It's not that about that place, but up North. Yeah, things are different. Yeah, we're compassionate. Yeah. So I want to read a

little bit from the from the minutes of this. I was just summarizing earlier, but here's the exact language and watch again how the council interacts here. Says quote, brother Joseph, then arose after hearing Parley and Lyman, and he said that he was going to Zion to assist in redeeming it. He then called for the voice of the council to sanction his going. What do you guys think? Is that a wise choice, right? The Prophet thrown himself on their wisdom and they all sanctioned without a dissenting voice. He then said, who will volunteer to go with me? And then some 30 or 40 volunteered to go who were then present at the council. Joseph, Jr. was then nominated and seconded to be the commander in chief of the armies of Israel and the leader of those who volunteered to go and assist in the redemption of Zion.

And that decision was then carried by the vote of all present. So you see the work how important was the council in this moment, right? Right. Just one week after it's formed. One week. It's needed. Yeah, absolutely. This is their third case. This is their third case about that. That level of difficulty just went to the extreme. So what's in the verses here? So somewhere during this meeting is one section 103 comes? Either during that we don't know from the historical record that we have if it was during the meeting or After the meeting but look at verse one verse one He calls them my friends very late I say and you my friends and

The Lord typically uses that phrase in the doctrine of covenants when he's referencing the group of high priests high priests are consistently his friends and so Joseph is still with the people, so is it during the meeting, is it after the meeting? So here's the revelation to know how to act in the discharge of your duties concerning the salvation and redemption of your brethren who've been scattered on the land of Zion. He calls those in Jackson County, in verse two, mine enemies. Why has God not intervened on behalf of his people? And the two reasons he gives is, verse two and three is the first reason. He says, you were driven and smitten

by the hands of my enemies, or they were, on whom I will pour out my wrath without measure in my own due time, for I have suffered them, that is, mine enemies, thus far, that they might fill up the measure of their iniquities that their cup might be full. So reason number one that I've allowed this is the wicked need to be allowed to be wicked so that the punishment that comes upon them will be just.

And maybe we'll talk about the punishment that comes upon these people in that generation when we talk about the punishment that comes upon these people in that generation. When we talk about section 105, so bookmark that. And then verse four, he gives second reason. He says, oh, also that those who call themselves after my name might be chasing for a little season with a sore and grievous chest, tizement. Why? Well, because they did not harket altogether onto the precepts and commandments, which I gave unto them, they are not innocent, for sure the Lord is saying in verse four,

you're not innocent, actually. At least there's enough of you that are not innocent. You must suffer. In fact, there were innocent people who were suffering, and this bothered Joseph Smith. Oliver Cowdry said he was eyewitness, and he came to Kirtland, and then he wrote a letter back to his friends in Missouri about their Experiencing a letter dated the 10th of August 1833. He said this. He said this

Tribulation would not have come upon Zion had it not been for rebellion. He said firstly there were rebellions against the one to whom were entrusted the keys and from thence it has spread down to the lowest and last, to the lowest and least member. And then he says, it was necessary that these things should come upon us, not only justice demands it, but there was no other way to cleanse the church. That's how Oliver Cowdery feels about it.

And the Lord seems to be saying the same thing here. But it bothered Joseph that there were, there were some innocent people in here that suffered. And he said, the only way I can deal with this is the idea that if one part of your body is injured, it's going to hurt the whole body, right? That analogy from Paul that, right, we're all part of the one body of Christ. And so there were some innocent people for sure, some dedicated consecrated people in Missouri who are suffering because of the disobedience of some others. I was going to say there's a letter from WWE Phelps to the prophet and saying,

quote, I know it was right that we should be driven out of the land of Zion that the rebellious might be sent away. So there is the feeling there that they know a little bit of what the Lord is talking about when he says some did not harken to the precepts and commandments which I gave. Yeah, that's right. So those are the two reasons he gives for why this is happening. One, so that your enemies may fill up their iniquities so that the punishment that comes upon them will be just and two because you need to be chastened to be cleansed, right? That the word chastened has that idea in mind. Chastening is intended to cleanse. It means to make chaste, to make your pure, to make you, to make you, to make you clean. So that's the idea. First of all, in verse 5, 6, and 7, he assures them that from this moment on, from this very moment, they

will begin to prevail against their enemies. By harkening to observe God's words, they will never cease to prevail, until the kingdoms of the world are subdued under my feet, and the earth is given to the saints to possess it forever and ever. And then he says, but if you don't keep my commandments, verse 8, and Harkin not to observe all my words, then the kingdoms of the world shall prevail against them. This is how this is your do or die here. You were set to be a light to the world, to be the Savior, a man, and if you don't, then if you're not, then you're that salt that's lost at savor, he goes on to say, so you you stay close to me and you cannot fail. Hopefully you've learned your lesson from this

and from that lesson you can learn to to harken unto my my words, all of them, and you'll prevail from this point on. The fact that we know they don't prevail from that point on tells us which way they went historically. But let me make a quick note on verse 10 about the salt of the earth. That's a very new testament idea comes from the sermon on the mount. The idea was that salt was very valuable because it could preserve meat. And so you could trade salt almost like cash. But if you had dirt in your salt, right? If you got impurities in your salt, it's good for nothing. It's, you can't use it anymore, right?

And so it says to be trotting under the foot of men, they would actually use it, dump it out on the roads to suck up all the moisture on the roads from all the humans and the animals around, all the moisture that's on the ground, and it would just be walked on. So the ideas don't let that impurity into your life. Yeah, this is the same Jesus speaking who spoke in the New Testament. Yeah, here he is. You're remembering that elder Carlos E.A.C. quotation

where he said in a priesthood conference years ago that salt will not lose its saver with age. It's only lost through mixture and contamination. And then taught that don't get mixed up and contaminated. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, one other interesting thing that about salt sensor on the topic is that in the Old Testament, sometimes they would use salt in their covenant making because salt was a symbol of eternity. Sometimes they call it the covenant of salt, which is an everlasting covenant immutable. And when you become my covenant people, then you are considered the salt of the earth.

Yeah. Let's continue, shall we? So he goes on to instruct them to, well, he gives perspective in verse 12 and 13, that after much tribulation, I said back in section 58, when you first got to this, to the land of Zion, after much tribulation, come at the blessing. And this is the blessing which I am promising you, which is your redemption, your redemption and the redemption of your brethren,

even what he means by that, is their restoration to the land of Zion, he says. So he's not saying give up on Jackson County, Missouri, he's saying, it's time now to line up your hearts, purify your intentions, follow my words with exactness. And after the tribulation you've gone through, it's time to restore you to the land of Zion. They call that the redemption of Zion. And it needs to come, verse 15, by power, needs to come by power. Therefore, verse 16, I will raise up a man like Moses, who will lead them like the children of Israel for you are the children of Israel, right? You are the covenant people. You are the seat of Abraham, and you must needs be led out of bondage by power. And as your fathers, the

ancient Israelites were led at first, even so, shall the redemption of Zion, but he's being pretty, pretty dramatic here. Right? This is going to be a, a, another exodus story in some ways, right? Bringing them from their state of bondage back into the land of Zion. It's going to be great. And he uses another term in verse 19 and 20. He says, but for them, I told them that my angel will go up before you, but not my presence. And in time, you'll be let you'll possess the goodly land. And then he says in verse 21, he says that my servant Joseph Smith, Jr., I'm talking to you, he is the man to whom I liken the servant, to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable, which I have given unto you.

So that's a reference back to DNC 101, verse 55. Remember the parable back there? Maybe we just jump back for a second. That there was, he gives us parable that the Lord had a very choice land, a Lord of the vineyard, some nobleman. And he told his servants to build a hedge and then to, to, there's these 12 trees and build a hedge around it so the enemies can get through them, build a tower so they can watch to

make sure the trees don't get corrupted. But then they were like, why do we need to build a tower? Like this is just like, I'm, everything's fine. Like we don't need a tower, right? And then, and then the the enemies, the enemies actually come in, they break through the heads, they break down the trees because they didn't build the tower. And then the Lord, or the noble men's like, guys, verse 52, he's like, why? What is the cause of this great evil? Actually not to have done even as I come,

handed you, you know, and they're like, yeah, we probably should have done what you told us to know. We see the consequences, right? And then, but then he says, jumped to verse 55, he says, the Lord of the vineyards said unto one of his servants, go and gather together the residue of my servants and take all the strength of my house,

which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age, also among all my servants who are the strength of my house and take them and I want you to verse 57 to go straight way back into that land, break down the walls of my enemies, throw down their tower and scatter their watchmen. We're gonna take this land back. This is a pretty thinly veiled parable. What could he be talking about here?

In light of recent events. Yeah, but so in, in, then in verse 103, he's saying, Joseph Smith, you're, you're the man who my likened to that servant who should gather the strength of my house. And that's what he says in verse 22. Therefore, let my servant Joseph Smith, Jr., we're now back in section 103,

say into the strength of my house, my young men, the middle age, gather yourselves together to the land of Zion upon the land which I have bought with money that has been consecrated to me and let all the churches round about all the churches, all the branches of the church. Let them send up wise men with their monies and purchased lands even as I have commanded them.

He's actually repeating what he said in section 101, there are two ways you're gonna get Zion back. One, strength of my house is built up the young men and the middle age. You're going to go as like an armed force to take this land back. And number two, you're going to purchase the land legally. Right. So that's kind of an odd thing. So we're going to go take it by military force or we're gonna buy it in an upstanding business like, well, it turns out that the purpose of the military force was simply to ensure that those who'd been kicked out could be brought back safe.

There was actually Joseph who will later tell us no intention in any way to fight unless they absolutely had to. It was just to be there so that the innocent could come back And bodyguards right bodyguards. Yeah, welcome back in escort back in that's right didn't a governor Dunklin give him some positive reinforcement at some point totally was he was going to right right? Yeah, so the governor the governor Daniel Dunklin's his name he So the governor, the governor, Daniel Dunclin's his name, he, according to some notes here in the history of the church, says, the governor, Dunclin manifested a willingness to restore

us back if we will request it. And in February of 1834, the governor reiterated his position in a formal replies, and he's willing to do that. He fully recognized that the Mormons had a right to organize a military body. He said, indeed, it's your duty to do so. So the governor says that the Mormons obviously have a right to the land, and you've obviously got a right to then organize a military body. In fact, you've got a duty to do that.

He agreed to meet with them with some state militia and with their forces combined, they would peacefully escort those who'd been kicked out of their land, back to their land. That was the plan. So yeah, so they felt like they have the backing of the governor of the state of Missouri. And so they felt like they're on solid ground, right?

And Scott, you had mentioned that they're gonna use more money to buy land, but they had already purchased some. Yeah, they had already purchased 2,000 acres or so somewhere around there. That's right. Yeah. And it's just been taken, right? Someone just pushed you off and taken your land.

And like 200, I think 203 homes had been totally deruved or destroyed, burned. Yeah, the, in fact, when some people in Missouri hear that the Mormons are coming to get their land back, and there was all kinds of inflated stories of the numbers and their intentions and what sort of oaths they were shouting out what they were going to do to the Missourians and stuff like that, none of which was true, right? But in panic, they went and tried to basically destroy everything else that was there so that they wouldn't want it back. And so they were just intent on keeping the Mormons out. Yeah. But the Lord is basically giving them a full speed ahead, right? Let's organize this military group. And then let's keep all the wise, he calls them wise men,

in verse 23, let the wise men with their monies come and purchase lands, even as I have commanded them. Let's buy the lands so that the Misurians who are there can be justly compensated if they want to leave, they can leave, will buy their lands from them. Buy our own land back? No, no. Buy more land so that those who hate us don't have to live by us. We'll buy your house. How about that? We'll give you just compensation. Right.

Yeah, and so in fact, when they actually get there, I'm jumping ahead a little bit here, but when they actually get there, there's a little meeting with some from the Jackson County side and with Joseph Smith and some of the leaders, and they decide that 12 people should be chosen by six by the Mormons and six by those in Jackson County, totally neutral parties, and those 12 people should go in and evaluate the worth of the land of the Mormons and the worth of the land of the Mormons and the

worth of the land of the Jackson County people who are still there and and then they would agree that and Joseph Smith said what we're gonna do is we would if you'll give us one year we'll buy all the lands from the Missouri and if they don't want to live by us we'll buy their lands in at one year's time so if we can have these neutral parties assess the worth of those properties, we'll come in and buy it within a year's time. We don't want war. That's our last resort. We just want to live peaceably and lawfully in this land that we ought to live with. We bought it. We bought it with our money. And

we're willing to buy your land that we haven't bought yet. We just want to live in that spot. We've got really important reasons to do so. But yeah, that's where this is going. And that's what verse 23 is, reference in section 105, we'll mention it again. So we're just maybe getting a little bit ahead, but this is all going to be taught in the same lesson.

So you can cross reference back and forth, but that's what that's all about. So the Lord promises them that those who curse them will be cursed and my presence will go with you and I'll avenge my enemies and avenge you of my enemies under the third and fourth generation. And then verse 27, this is a touching, interesting verse, he said, 27, 28, let no man be afraid to lay down his life or my sake. You might gulp at that point if you're being recruited for this mission. For who so lay it down his life for my sake shall find it again. There's a nice New Testament Matthew 16, right? My

disciples need to be willing to lay down their life. Remember he says, and if you lose your life for my sake, then you'll find it. In verse 28, Huso is not willing to lay down his life for my sake, Verse 28, Who so is not willing to lay down his life for my sake, is not my disciple. [♪ Music playing in the background of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song the song of the song the song of the song of the song of the song of the song the song of the song of the song of the song the song of the song of the song of the song of the song the song of the song of the song the song of the song of the song the song of the song the song of the song the song of the song of the song of the song the song of the song the song of the song the song of the song of the song of the song of the song of the song the song of the song the song of the song the song of the song of the song the song of the song of the song the song of the song of the song of the song the song of the song of song the song of the song the song of the song the song of song the song the song of the song of song the song of the song the song of the song of the song of the song the song of the song the song of the song