Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 111-114 Part 2 • Dr. Susan Black • Oct 6 - Oct 12 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

Dr. Susan Easton Black continues to explore Doctrine and Covenants 111-114, weaving together stories of the pride and humility of Thomas B. Marsh, doctrinal clarification on Isaiah, the life and choices of David W. Patten, and a powerful testimony of Joseph Smith’s prophetic calling.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTS English: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC241EN French: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC241FR German: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC241DE Portuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC241PT Spanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC241ESYOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/jNQbb-qz9nQALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTES followHIM website: https://www.followHIM.coFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookBook of Mormon: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastBMBook  WEEKLY NEWSLETTER https://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletter  SOCIAL MEDIA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTIMECODE:00:00 Part 2 - Dr. Susan Easton Black02:36 Having a soft heart04:45 Thomas B Marsh leaving and returns07:38 Forgiving Thomas10:20 Questions about Isaiah13:12 Answer for Elias Higby17:24 First question about the stem of Jesse21:11 Who asked the first three questions?24:04 Why are we here?28:34 Why should Zion get out of the dust?31:54 Trouble with the Kirtland Safety Society35:50 David Patten’s nickname38:05 Martyrdom of David Patten42:06 Why memorize D&C 114?44:37 People remember David Patten47:34 People are an example or a warning48:29 Dr. Black shares her testimony of Jesus and His prophet Joseph 50:49 Impressions of the Prophet Joseph Smith55:08  End of Part 2 - Dr. Susan Easton BlackThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsAmelia Kabwika: Portuguese TranscriptsHeather Barlow: Communications DirectorSydney Smith: Social Media, Graphic Design "Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Welcome back to part two with Dr. Susan Easton Black, Doctrine in Covenants 111 to 114. I noticed something, both of you, in section 112. The Lord mentions the heart six times in this section. I'll read them to you, and then I'd love to hear what you think. He says, there have been a few things in your heart with which I, the Lord, was not well pleased. let thy heart be of good cheer. This is verse 11. I know thy heart, and I've heard thy prayers. And if you come over to 13, I the Lord will feel after them. And if they harden not their hearts, I will heal them. Then all the way to the end, 28, purify your hearts before me. Go into all the world and preach my gospel.

And then verse 33, cleanse your hearts and your garments, less the blood of generous. generation be required at your hands. This happens in the book of Jacob as well, John. You know that. Jacob is often talking about the state of your heart. It seems like Thomas B. Marsh and maybe some of these others, they let their heart get a little bit poisoned. Is that, is that fair? That's fair. How do you guard against that? Hank, where's the verse that says there's none else that knows the thoughts in the intents of thy heart? In section, that's Oliver Cowdery, right? Six, six, I feel like having a pure heart is such a lofty goal. Don't we sometimes have, did I always do my home teaching or my ministering for all of the perfectly right reasons?

No. I think I'm supposed to. Maybe that's what the Lord's talking about, your desires, your intentions, your affections, doing the best things, but doing it for the best reasons. That's a lifetime pursuit. That's why the Savior, thankfully, can remake our hearts. I think if we wait to have perfect motives, we never do anything. Yeah. We can purify our hearts as we just move forward.

I've noticed I come out of the temple feeling more purified than when I went in. So as we move forward in the work, our hearts can be purified. Susan, what do you think? I think you're absolutely right what you're saying. I think hard heart to soft heart is a process. soft heart to pure heart the process continues depending on the day we're somewhere in the middle working to move forward to be better people yeah i brought this little thought from elder ucturf way back in 2010 he tells this story about president faust he says when i was called as a

general authority i was blessed to be tutored by many of the senior brethren in the church one day i had the opportunity to drive President James E. Faust to a state conference. During the hours we spent in the car, President Faust took the time to teach me some important principles about my assignment. He explained also how gracious the members of the church are, especially to general authorities. He said, they will treat you very kindly. They will say nice things about you. He laughed a little and then said, Dieter, be thankful for this, but don't you ever inhale it. don't let it in. This whole talk is on pride in the priesthood.

In fact, at one point, he talks about sports. He says, I confess there are times when the lack of civility in sports is embarrassing. How is it that normally kind and compassionate human beings can become so intolerant and filled with hatred? Pride is the great sin of self-elevation when you think of a hardened heart. It is for so many a personal ramiemptum, a whole, stand that justifies envy, greed, and vanity. In a sense, pride is the original sin. For before the foundations of the earth, pride felled Lucifer, a son of the morning who was in authority in the presence of God. And then this statement, if pride can corrupt one as capable and promising as

this. That's why I thought of Thomas B. Marsh. Here he is, the president of the 12. He was capable and promising. If pride can corrupt one as capable. capable and promising as this, should we not examine our own souls as well? And maybe from this, we might say hearts. Examine your heart. One thing is envy, greed, vanity, justification. All of these things can be, man, am I headed in that direction? Thomas M. Marsh, he's been in this. What did you say, Susan? 1830? Right. He's coming in early. Yeah. This is seven years. He's not brand new like some of these others. we see who come in and flame out.

Tell us about Thomas, why does he leave? He's a good guy, right? He is a good guy. Right, he's a really good guy. Maybe pride. He knew better than others about who he thought was at fault as it relates to the strippings and the cream. He lived long enough to be able to see his follies

and to realize he'd made a mistake. He's lost his wife. He lost any wealth. He lost family. and he lost his health. At this point, he comes back, and it's interesting that the man that baptized him was actually paid to take Thomas in his wagon to get him to Utah because it wasn't like he was healthy enough to be able to get his own wagon in an oxen and get along the way.

Thomas went through a lot of problems, and at one point, he said he knew that the Lord loved him else why would he have so much shaking when he fell away why it was just so obvious the problems were insurmountable exalt not yourself rebel not against my servant joseph the lord sees it coming early on he says don't do this don't head this direction don't do this because look what's going to happen as a parent can't we all see that we'd say don't do this Remember who you are, which means remember who I am, right? Don't do this. It's not going to result in happiness at the end.

Yeah. Thomas is prideful enough to do it anyway. I say it to my students sometimes. I've seen this movie. I know how this ends. You're not the first student to do this sort of thing and to head this direction. That's so hard. It's heartbreaking.

Talking about hearts. This letter that I read, I was in the fourth or fifth paragraph in earlier paragraph says, I know I have sinned against heaven and in thy sight. I mean, that's right out of Luke 15. That's the prodigal son. And I deserve no place among you, even as the lowest member. You know, I'm no more worthy to be called thy son. But like you said, Susan, that Lord was after him. He said that he's followed me. He has visited me with scourging, ouch, with visions and dreams. Lord never gave up on him, it sounds like. I'm just glad that it says when he went to, let's see, on September 6th, two days after his arrival in the

valley, a large congregation had assembled for Sabbath worship, voted unanimously to receive Brother Marsh in the full fellowship. And as you said, a stroke had paralyzed part of his body, it says, but I'm glad they all said, yes, brother, come back. Don't you think that's great? Because you're looking at people that actually went through the extermination order and could look to Thomas as part of the cause of that, and imagine their feelings about the man, yet on the moment, they were like, sure, we welcome you back in. I mean, it says something about Thomas wanting to come back, but it says something about

the saints that endured across the plains, went through all the problems, and yet they also were willing to forgive him. What did Elder Ucdorf say, forgive me for, what was it? sin differently than you do? What was it? So that keeps us humble because all of us know both of those sons had issues. One of them was pride, resentment, envy, maybe, and one was more visible sins, but we all need the repentance. I like the ending to that story. It makes me feel a little better that he came back and the whole congregation said, yes, we want you back. I like that. There was this moment, Susan. I remember this story just because both you and I knew.

Robert Matthews. Here's the man who wrote quite a bit, right? Basically wrote the Bible dictionary that we use. He's speaking in Cedar City and he was teaching us. I was a young seminary teacher. And I remember distinctly, he said, no, I don't want you to think that I know more than you. I don't. I just thought, yes, you do. Yes, you do. But he emanated this, look, I'm not special. I'm doing the work just like you. I think that's what he meant. We're on the same team here. We're on the same team, different talents, appreciating each other's talents as opposed to competing. Yeah. This is a heartbreaking one. I love that he comes back. My heart hurts for what he missed out on. Maybe we would have had Thomas B. Marsh University, right? Right. You sure could have. That's what Casey Griffith said. It could have been TMU instead of B.

Yeah. And we're going to talk about David Patton later. who also was ahead of Brigham Young in the 12. Right. Actually, if David had known when his birthday was, he would have been present up the 12. Really? Instead of Thomas B. Marsh, yeah. He just didn't know when it was?

Yeah, yeah. Susan, when we started, you said that Joseph has financial concerns. Thomas B. Marsh has concerns. That's 111 and 112. And then you said 113. And you named a bunch of people who have concerns, but I don't see them listed here. The only one that we could really name is Elias Higby. All we know is he's with other brethren, but their concerns are about doctrine.

I think that that is so interesting because we move from we're concerned about money. We're concerned about those not keeping the commandments, but actually we're concerned about doctrine. This one, little history on it, Joseph Smith, has just arrived in Missouri. He's now in the far west area, walking through the town. He's with his brother, Samuel Smith, remember our first missionary. As they're walking along, it's now in March of 1838. They run into Elias Higby and other brethren are approaching them, and these brethren claim that they had questions about interpretation of

verses. We're going to find it's in chapter 11 and chapter 52 of the book of Isaiah. And you think, isn't that interesting? You know, they've got a fledgling community starting. They're going to have a couple of hotels. They've got some general stores. They've figured out where the temple site's going to be. They're basically all farmers by trade and then something else. But here I'm in actually discussing then the book of Isaiah. And you think, well, that's so interesting. I got a lot going on. When you've got a town to be built, right? They've got persecution, people falling apart, quoting Bruce Armacocchi.

I think it's pretty interesting. He was asked, why did these brethren have questions about the writings of Isaiah? And he said, the answer is simple. He said, most of us find the writings of Isaiah hard to understand. So it's not these men back in the 1830s, but even today. Yet Bruce Armacocki said, it just may be that. that my salvation and yours also does, in fact, depend upon our ability to understand the writings of Isaiah as fully and truly as Nephi understood them.

Isaiah itself, as we begin to look, he's always pointing his readers to Jesus Christ, to covenants, and to the temple. You get restoration of lost truths, promised land, who's the rightful king. but if you looked in just the Doctrine and Covenants, we have over 70 quotations that are either quoted or paraphrased of Isaiah. So Isaiah seems to be the link. I've always wondered when we get all the scriptures together, and here come the lost tribes with their scriptures.

It will be like a pencil that we cut in three pieces. Here's the bookworm people, and here's the Jerusalem people. Here they come. How will we recognize each other? we'll all be talking Isaiah. Everyone will have Isaiah in their scriptures. Yeah, everybody will have Isaiah. It's our link.

The problem is it's our link, but yet remains so hard to understand. At this point, Joseph Smith then receives a revelation for the brethren and answers the five questions that are contained in Doctor and Covenants. Section 113. You can see the five as we go through. We actually don't know who asked the first three, but we know you get Elias Higby coming through on the last two. I thought we might want to learn something first about Elias Higby. Okay, let's do it. Elias Higby joins the church in Cincinnati, Ohio.

He's one of the first then called to take his family to Jackson County, Missouri. He's among those in 1833 that's forced out of John. Jackson and ends up in Clay County. By the time we're picking up here, obviously, he's moved up to far west. You'd say as far as positions in the church, it appears to me he's somebody that doesn't say no. It doesn't seem to have an excuse. By the time we pick him up, he's been a high counselor, a clerk, a historian, and a recorder. He might have been a writer in our time. He could have been somebody that taught religion. Seems like he's into it. He's the clerk historian. After the this experience. What puts him on the map that people remember him most is in an 1839, he was

asked to accompany Joseph Smith to Washington, D.C. to put before the President of the United States, Missouri redress petitions. For him, he stays in the Capitol after Joseph has departed and finally says by 1840, I feel now that we have made our last appeal to all earthly tribunals for the wrongs we suffer down the state of Missouri, that we should now put our whole trust in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We have a right now which we could not adhere to fore, so fully claim. That is, of asking God for redress and redemption, as they have been refused to us by man.

In other words, he is not successful. He returns back to where the saints had then been to Illinois. His next assignment, he's appointed to be on. the Navu Temple Committee to help select the site and direct them the workers of the temple. He dies of cholera in June of 1843 at the age of 47. Joseph Smith said of this man, his loss will be universally lamented. How'd you like that?

Not only by his family, but by a large circle of brethren, who have long witnessed his integrity and uprightness, as well as a life of devotedness to the cause of truth. You look at him. He's young, too, that by this point it would make him in his early 40s as he's in far west. He's with friends. And they're discussing two chapters in Isaiah because they're walking along the streets where you'd say other men are putting in fences. They're plowing the land. Here's these guys talking about something that you'd say, wait a minute, what could you say you've done with your day? Now maybe we could look at the questions. He does sound like he'd be a religion teacher. Don't you think? We're weird.

I've had conversations where I'm walking with a friend to lunch and I say, hey, I was teaching this today. What do you think that verse means? That's an odd group. They're just walking down the street. Other peoples are working in their gardens or slaughtering chickens for the dinner. They're doing things. They're just talking about Isaiah, which gives you a clue that readers in the church, they were illiterate, they were familiar with their Bibles.

And he's asking about here, Isaiah 11, which is also one of those in the Book of Mormon, 2nd Nephi 21. Maybe going through what are the questions. First question, who is the stem of Jesse spoken of then in the first? five verses of chapter 11 of Isaiah. Joseph Smith, then hearing from the Lord, verily thus saith the Lord, here's your answer. The stem of Jesse, well, it is none other than Jesus Christ. And Jesse is David's father. Right.

We'll know little of your Old Testament. And then you get the second question. What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah? that should come of the stem of Jesse. In other words, Jesse's given you, it's Christ, right? Who's the stem? Well, what is the, who's the rod then? And the answer, you get, the answer isn't coming.

Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is lay. made much power. Can you name him? He doesn't name him here, but I would guess, either that's Joseph Smith or John, by the way. I'm pretty sure it's Joseph Smith. Well, I was leaning one way. I just didn't want you to know. Thanks for the shout-out.

We've now learned the stem of Jesse is Christ. The Rod's spoken about, and you start looking genealogy, which gives you an Ephraim House of Joseph as well as Joseph Smith, then you get, here's your next question. What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter? Are you ready for the answer? I'll read it. This is verse 6. Behold thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign and for the gathering of my people in the last days.

So he's identified three different symbols in Isaiah 11. He's identified the stem of Jesse, the rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a rod is like a shoot, a little branch coming out. Then he's identified this third, which is, in that day, there shall be a root of Jesse. And he's asking about all three. Did I get that right? Yep.

but how do we interpret then the answer in verse six one and two have been people one's christ one's joseph but then you come to verse six we hold us saith the lord it is a descendant of jesse it's full of joseph the priesthood and the keys of the kingdom i'm going to guess here susan that this is the church yep did i get right Yes, boy, talk about an A student. Can you go back and change my grade? That's an A because look at what you get in the church. You get the priesthood. You get the keys of the kingdom of God. It's an ensign where we're gathering the people here in the last days.

His questions are not casual questions. Like I had one student complained when I asked how many pieces of bone came out of Joseph's original incision when his leg was cut. He goes, I don't think that's important. But I do. Yeah. I'm the teacher. But you'd say, it's not a question off like that. These are the basics. Christ, Joseph Smith, the church, right? Do we actually know who asked those first three questions? And the answer is, no, but then we come to verse seven. These are now questions that are asked by Elias Higby, someone who goes on to be on the Navu Temple Committee, who goes with Joseph Smith to Washington, D.C., and is left there to handle church affairs.

So someone that Joseph has great trust in, this time in verse 7, he says, well, okay, I'm not interested right now in Chapter 11 of Isaiah. I've had it with that. You guys have talked enough about that. So what I'd really like to know is what about the 52nd chapter, first verse? Here's the question. Do you think Joseph Smith, when you receive the revelation, is walking along with the Bible in his hand when he's with his brother Samuel and they kind of arrived in town? That was my thought. Is the Lord up in, he's like, well, let me look that up. Hang on. Let me turn over to Isaiah. 52. Or do those other men, do they actually have a Bible as they're walking along? And Joseph says, wait a minute, turn to that. Yeah. Questions we probably don't know the answer. Elias Higmi now has two questions of his own. Verse 7, what is meant by the command in Isaiah

52, first verse, which said, put on thy strength of Zion, and what people had Isaiah referenced to? In other words, who's Isaiah talking about when he says, put on thy strength and what is our strength? I'm looking for my A student. Come on, John. You can join the group here. Yeah, come on, John. To put on thy strength is he describes it as robes. And often we think of clothes as you crown a king, you put a robe on him, it's power.

I love the answer here. To put on her strength is to put on the authority of the. priesthood, which he has a right to. Did I answer the right question? Yes, you did good. Yeah, thanks. Student makes good. So you look and you'd say, what are we learning in these verses?

We're learning, STEM is Christ. We're learning about the rod, Joseph Smith. We're learning about the root, the church. Now we're learning about what you need to have the strength to be able to survive. in the society in which we live, you need strength, which you're now saying is priesthood. We, all of us, yeah. It says, Susan, at the end of verse 8, return to that power which she had lost. I read ahead a little bit.

We're going to talk about scattered Israel here. This isn't just a set of random questions. This is Christ, Joseph Smith, the church is going to gather scattered Israel, and I'm guessing the next question is, what's that going to look like? What is going to happen to scattered Israel? What is, or do we understand by Zion loosing herself from the bands of her neck? I can read verse 10. We are to understand that the scattered remnants are exhorted to return to the Lord from once they have fallen,

which if they do, the promise of the Lord is that he will speak to them or give them revelation. Then the Lord gives some homework. I want you to go read the six, seventh, and eighth verses, talking about the bands of the neck are the curses of God upon her, the remnants of Israel in their scattered condition among the Gentiles. That's a great lesson on the Lord Joseph Smith, the church, and the purpose of the church here is not just to restore a New Testament church, but to go find scattered Israel. That's awesome. I imagine our listeners have accepted mission calls. we should probably all say, called to serve. Our job is, get out there and find them.

I think we could say to each other, where have we gone to try and find scattered Israel? At least the three of us can say, we've gone a lot of places. Absolutely. And we've got kids in a lot of places. We do. Sometimes I'll do that in class. Where did you go? The Lord says, go ye to all the earth.

and they'll yell out, Las Vegas, Norway, Ghana. It's a fun little activity. It is, and you always feel the spirit. You're like, who are these great people that we get to teach that have done so much for the Lord, the sacrifice, their willingness, and then the joy they've experienced? There is a quote from 2005, so 20 years ago, that I use when I teach the gathering of Israel in my classes.

I usually started off like this. This is Elder Bednar. The talk is called Becoming a Missionary. So I'll usually give the first half of the quote and ask them to fill in the second half. The first half says this. We were foreordained in the pre-mortal existence and born into mortality to, I'll put dot, dot, dot. I'll say, how would you finish that? Why did we come to Earth?

Most often, it's to get a body, to be tested, to become like God. And I'll say, those are all right, but that's not what Elder Bednor said, and I'll fill it in. Here's the whole quote. We were foreordained in the premortal existence and born into mortality to fulfill the covenant and promise God made to Abraham. That is who we are. That is why we are here. I taught my twin boys when they were young to say that to their primary teachers when they said, why did we come to earth? to fulfill the covenant and promise God made to Abraham.

That is why we are here. But it really is. President Nelson has been talking about this since long before he was present to the church. That's true. I love that this was on their minds. And the answers, when I saw this question, I thought, maybe they've read their Book of Mormon too, because it's repeated twice in the Book of Mormon.

in 2nd Nephi 8 also in 3rd Nephi 20 the same Isaiah passages out of chapter 52 are repeated like in second Nephi 8 which is compare Isaiah 51 and 52 awake awake stand up o Jerusalem which hast drunk at the hand of the Lord the cup of his fury thou hast drunken the dregs out of the cup of trembling wrung and out so it talks about what they've been through but they Then we skip to verse 23 of 2nd Nephi 8, I will put it into the hand of them that afflicted thee, who have said to thy soul, bow down that we may go over. I mean, they've literally been walked all over, and thou hast laid thy body as the ground and as the street to them that went over. Now here's the Elias Higbee question. Awake, awake, put on thy strength of Zion, put on thy beautiful garments of Jerusalem, the holy city, for henceforth there shall no more come into thee,

the uncircumcised and the unclean shake thyself from the dust arise sit down o jerusalem loose thyself from the bands of thy neck o captive daughter of zine which was another question and then we see the same thing third nephi chapter 20 where jesus quotes it again third nephi 20 verse 36 awake put on thy strength o zine and put on the beautiful garments it has a wonderful latter-day flavor to it. Hank, isn't Paul Hoskison a relative of yours? He is. He's a cousin, although I don't think he'd claim me. Oh, okay. I was watching one of the roundtable discussions years ago. I'm reading, Arise, sit down, and that sounds like, we'll make up your mind, right? Yeah, Arise, sit down. Loose thyself from the bands of thy neck. Invaders often took conquered inhabitants of the land a slave sometimes by putting bands around their necks. Symbolically, sin is like a band around our necks as Satan leads us where he wants us to go. The prophet Joseph Smith wrote, the bands of her neck are curses of God upon her. That's verse 10. Versus 24 and 25 of 2nd Nephi 8 are repeated in 3rd

Nephi 20 and some of the last words in the book of Mormon in Moronai 1031. If you're curious about what does this all mean. This is what Dr. Hoskison said. He was an old Testament professor that I had at BYU. He said the people of Israel should stand up out of the dust where they've been. Dust is a sign of mourning. It's a sign of degradation. They ought to get up out of the dust, out of their reason for mourning. They ought to rise. They ought to come in the house again because the Lord's going to accept them. They ought to take a bath and put on some new clothes and sit down with the Lord and share a meal with him once more as he did previously before they deserted him. I love the idea when I saw a rise sit down. That's a contradiction, but it's get out of

the dust and sit down in dignity with the Lord like on the throne and put on the power of the priesthood, which is the robes. And Hoyt Brewster said it could also be speaking of holy things and holy places to put on robes, which I thought was cool. Shout out to Cousin Paul. I wish I would gotten a little of that Old Testament expertise. We'd come off Section 109 and 110, where it was all temple. Then we saw concerns. We went through Joseph's concern for money and Thomas's concern for people in his core, I'm not keeping the commandments. And it's almost as if Elias Higby was a vehicle for Joseph Smith to remind him of the temple. You've had pretty heavy things being pounded at you. Let's remember the big picture what we're all about. Yeah. And Susan, this is

happening in the middle of some pretty intense times. Oh, very intense. For Joseph Smith. In fact, I see that section 114 is April of 1838. Section 111, where we started was August of 36. six, two years, almost two years has gone by. We went from the dedication of the Kirtland Temple to Joseph Smith is in Missouri. What's happened? Well, a very difficult time for him. Curtland Safety Society, he and Sidney Rigden, he will actually escape and work his way towards Missouri. By the time he's in Missouri, false brethren have made it there too.

Once he gets in Missouri, he's holding, he's holding a court with the High Council on some of the men. Anyways, it's just such a difficult time. I don't know, we're the recipients of that difficult time because you look at Kirtland, like 1831, it's just revelation after revelation. And then you find all these revelations in Kirtland, and then all these revelations in Hiram, Ohio in different places. And suddenly you come to this period and you go, where are the revelations? at this point in Missouri, Joseph, because he's taking so much time in court and trying to get the church all together, he actually asked the Missouri Far West High Council if they could support his family for a year because he's without means and you have to wait for your crops to

grow. For the ever discredit of the high council, they voted no. At this time period, you get Joseph Smith, Emma, living in a home, and you get, it's like they do two blessings on the food. One is a blessing on food that isn't there. So they pray that somebody will be inspired in that town of far west to bring the food. And then you get the awkwardness of someone coming to the door. I don't know why we'd kill so many chickens and you know, my wife was this. Here you go. And then Joseph blessing the food and then blessing the family that they will never want for a loaf of bread. John Tanner's obviously the best example of this. I had an occasion in my happy world of research.

Who else is wanted to go into these libraries where you need tetanoshats to walk in. You know, they're just out in the nowhere place. At this point, you don't see them on Google. So I decided I would follow through the lives of those on the High Council that were serving at that time that voted to not help support Joseph and his family for that year. see what happened to them. And the interesting thing I found is that each one of those men at one point in their lives went through a difficult time financially. And there was a time in each one of their lives where they lack the means for a loaf of bread. It's your ultimate example during this time period of as you judge, you will be judged.

At one point I was asked in my stake to speak to the High Council and I go, I'm going to tell them all about this High Council. what's the impact of it? Well, where are those revelations that we could have been blessed with? And I'd say, Joseph's out being a farmer, trying to figure out how to support his family. Oh, well, the church is struggling. Wow. These are hard, dark years. I know.

Why did you guys ask me to come during this? I'm really a cheerful person. And, hey, don't worry. We have your colleague, Alex Baugh, Dr. Baugh coming next week to talk about the lead-up to Liberty Jail. Joseph is coming off some of the best years of his life to maybe the darkest few years of his life. I mean, he's walking into a storm in Missouri that is going to turn into almost an all-out war. So tell us about David Patton. Didn't he have a nickname, John?

Captain Fear Not. It's a great nickname. That's when you could use at one of those youth conferences. Captain Fear Not. Captain Fear Not. David W. Patton, when he's younger, he's one of those searcher peoples that's looking for a church that can be in its purity, something that reminds him about the New Testament Church of Christ.

He had a brother that wrote him a letter, indicated that he had just learned about the restoration and about it. a new church. David was so interested that he is reported to have gone 300 miles to Indiana to meet with his brother. He's convinced at that point about the book Mormon, the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith, and is baptized. He's ordained an elder as early as June of 1832 and he returned to his home, which at that time was in Michigan. At this point, he becomes one of those what you call a member missionary. He's going around, he's preaching the gospel everywhere. He said, he saw well on this type of mission. He saw that the deaf were made to hear, the blind could see,

the lame were made hold, fevers, palsies, crooked and withered limbs. In fact, all manner of diseases common to the country were healed what he called by his use of the power of God. He'd say, John, you were some missionary. Wouldn't you have liked to have him as a companion? He'd say, you're I see somebody's sick. Anyway, he moves from Michigan to Kirtland. Joseph asked him to go on to Clay County. He said, I received a blessing from Joseph before he moved on to Clay County. And in the blessing, he said, the reason he was asked to go to Missouri at that time,

he said, oh, may God grant it a blessing for Zion as a kind angel from heaven. How'd you like that said about you? David's called to be an apostle like all the others. February. Notice it's February 14th. I always think it's Valentine's Day. Whether my husband remembers flowers, candies, all the above, I always say it's a good day. We got the quorum of the 12th. But all right, David comes in. He's an apostle. He receives a blessing that he is to be like one of old who bore testimony of Jesus. Well, he serves a mission to the eastern states. He then serves a mission in the southern states. He's actually arrested while on a mission

and now southern states in Tennessee because his companion promised that anybody that accepted baptism would receive the Holy Ghost. And they were held under a $2,000 bond for saying such a thing. Wow.

At the trial that is held for this missionary, this great missionary, David Patton. He delivers a speech about 20 minutes which is said he held them spellbound. He told them of their wickedness and abominations that they were guilty of. And if they did not repent, they'd be in big trouble. He said that the judge was worried that

maybe he had a weapon on him, and he says, my only weapon has given me the truth of God. But following the trial, he returns from the mission to Tennessee to Curtland. He tells the prophet Joseph that he wishes he could die a martyr's death. Joseph replied, he said, when a man of your faith asks the Lord for anything, he generally grants it. So we need to all be careful if we get better and better, but we're probably safe. But then it says on October 24th, when news reached David that a mob had taken Latter-day Saint prisoners, they'd taken three men there in Missouri. He said he determined he would rescue them.

With about 75 men, he volunteered to join him in an attempt to rescue them that day. A biographer writes, With the watchword, God and Liberty on his lips, David ordering a charge ran forward. The mob fled in confusion before the rush that followed. But as David led the pursuit down the riverbank, which was the Cricket River, a mobber who had taken refuge behind a tree,

turned and shot him in the abdomen. David was carried from the battle site to a home of Stephen Winchester, In that home, he said, I have finished my course. Henceforth, there is laid up for me a crown, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me. He also said, brethren, you've held me by your faith, but do give me up. Stop having so much faith that I can live. He goes, give me up.

Let me go. I beseech you. And then David died in the evening of October 25th, 1838 at age 38. and I like what Joseph Smith wrote of this great man. He said, Brother David W. Patton was a very worthy man, beloved of all good men who knew him. He was one of the twelve apostles and died as he lived, a man of God and strong in the faith of a glorious resurrection,

in a world where mobs will have no power or place. At his funeral, the prophet Joseph pointed to his lifeless body and said, There lies a man that is done just as he said he would, He has laid down his life for his friends. That's David W. Patton, you impressed? Yeah, I am. Oh, Captain, my Captain, fear not. The first martyr that I can think of.

Joseph's son, Joseph Smith, Murdoch Smith, back in the Tar and Feathering. But if you were to say, first apostle, first Latter-day Saint, but the fact he had said to Joseph he wanted to die a martyr, right and then he got his wish he was such a good man the lord took him up on it yeah if you've got a nickname captain fear not that's pretty cool too yeah yeah if we were to look at section 14 it only has two verses and if you're having students memorize a section they might choose this one yeah yeah verily thus say it the lord it is wisdom and my servant david w patten that he settle up all his business as soon as he possibly can and make a disposition of his merchandise

that he may perform a mission unto me next spring. That mission they're talking about, it's the mission of the corm of the 12th to England when they're going to leave April 26, 1839 from that far west temple site. The Lord is saying, hey, get your house in order. I'm going to be calling you, but I'm going to give you time to get things ready. so you've got about a year to pull it together. And then he says, notice you're going to perform a mission unto me next spring

and company with others, even 12, including himself, to testify of my name and bear glad tidings into all the world. In other words, this is the 12 going to leave from that far west temple site. David, I'm giving you a year to get ready to go.

You realize a lot of these men when they were called on missions, it's like you're called and the next day you're on the trail. and you're going. David's getting time, and then notice what it says in the end. For verily, thus saith the Lord,

that inasmuch as there are those among you who deny my name, others shall be planted in their stead and receive their bishopric, amen. What the Lord is saying, notice he said the 12, and then there's like a pause, and you'd say the Lord knows

that others are going to fall, like Thomas B. Marsh is going to fall. Others are going to be called in to take their stead, who's called in on that mission that David doesn't live to fulfill, called in will be George A. Smith, remember the first presidency, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Willard Richards. You're seeing what I'm saying? Those that we know in love and you'd say, what can we say about them?

They were called to take their place. They're called in their stead. And what do they, all of them have in common? They're always faithful. I love that you pointed that out. It's almost like in verse 2, David, if you don't last, I'll send someone else. It's interesting by 1840, David's been gone for a while, right? There's a man named Seymour Bronson that dies in Joseph Smith's home.

Hebertsy Campbell says, I saw that David W. Patton, you know, is come to take him home. People didn't forget David. In other words, some people die and you go, well, pass the butter, right? Sorry to hear the news. You know, life is moving along. But in the case of David, he was remembered. So many people named their children after him. After he had gone, I mean, he was just a standout. So as we all talk about Captain Moroni, I'd have to put him in the same category. Wow. Wonderful. Maybe a president of the church. How do you not die? Correct me if I'm wrong, Susan. Lead us a little bit further. After the death of David Patton, things are going to continue to spiral. Lead us into next week. When you look at the dates of how things spiral,

it's kind of like within one week, you get the Battle of Cricket River. Then after the Battle of Cricket River, within that same week, you've got the massacre at Hans Mill, you've got the betrayal of Joseph Smith by George Henkel, then you get Joseph and the Brethren. There's a militia military court. They are condemned to be shot there at the far west center, which would make at the Temple Square. So it's like Battle of Cricket River kicks everything off, but it goes, Very, very fast. And then Joseph's moved from there to independence to Richmond jail, to Liberty Jail. It's a pretty tough time for the prophet.

And he doesn't want more. He is not a violent person. If it were me, I might be, let's go. But from what I've read, Susan, you know more than me. He is not prone to violence. If he had decided violence, there's about 5,000 people in far west. And then they're in De Witt. They're in all kinds of communities, Gallatin.

There's a lot of communities around there. You know, he could have Adam and Diomen really pulled them together. He had numbers. Yeah, he had the numbers. And the ones that were faithful would fall. Would go. Wow. Susan, this has been wonderful.

I did not know a lot of this, especially this stuff on Isaiah. I think I had just kind of said, oh, yeah, I'm glad I'm talking about Isaiah. I love Isaiah. But you've got a nice mission statement there of the Lord, Joseph Smith, the church, and the gathering. This is what's going on. We've been inspired by David W. Patton, and John, we've learned a lesson. In the scriptures, there are, what did you tell me? When you find a name, it's either an example or a warning.

Do what this person did or don't do what this person did. Yeah. We've had plenty of those, plenty of those today. Susan, I would love for you to just rant and vent Joseph Smith today in 2025. There is more evil spoken of Joseph Smith on a daily basis than ever before. With the rise of social media, everyone has a megaphone. And I'm sure when Maroni said, your name will be known for good and evil, he had to think across the world. And there's no way people on the other side of the world are really going to care about

me and yet here we are. Susan, very few people know and have studied Joseph Smith's life like you have. It's been an incredible career. It's still going. Huge privilege. So I think our listeners would be interested. Here's someone who knows him, who's read what he's written, who knows where he was on any given day. Joseph will probably ask you one day, Susan, where was I that? on this date, right? Yeah. I would love to you to speak to our listeners, those who maybe even, maybe doubt him or struggle.

Oh, is Joseph really a prophet? What would you say? I have had an opportunity to teach and study his life for decades. If you were to say, have I ever found any reason to pause and say, oh, wow, I don't think he's a prophet. I've never found that. I've thought when people have questioned it, his prophetic calling, it's because they don't know enough. They haven't exercised their faith. They haven't prayed. I've had people come up and ask horrible

questions, and I go, you know, if you knew the answer. But so many people don't want to hear the answer. I don't know how to say it better. They want to believe what they believe, because it gives him an excuse not to believe that he was a prophet. but I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet. And I wish I could say all my actions mirrored that knowledge. That's always a struggle. I know Joseph was a prophet. I've had thousands of students. I taught in an era where people had little tape recorders.

They'd all rush up to my desk. My classes were two, three hundred students at a time. They would then tape and then share their tapes with people like family members. But I had one student named Clayton Pxton, who eventually, settled out there in the independence area in Kansas City, Missouri, faithful member of the church. He contacted me and said, I've listened to those old tapes again and again, and they're all wearing out, and I can hear students slamming their desks, their books on the floor, you know, whatever it is, they're laughing, and I couldn't hear all the words. What I'd really like to do

is to do a free podcast for everybody. You just talk, and Clayton had the talent and has the talent to be able to sing, play the piano, and the guitar. And I go, wait a minute, you're going to rock out a little bit while I do the first vision. You go, I can do that and make it so it's tolerable for people to listen to. We have done 26 episodes that are hour-long episodes. I've done just the life of Joseph Smith.

And it's not like I name every blade of grass that he stepped on, but you may want to listen. So you'll find if I did or not. But I thought many people didn't have the privilege that has been mine to go on site so many time and actually have a home in Navu for 15 years, make sure that, you know, I had a chance to read all these words and to write about and learn about all the people that were baptized during the time. He was the president of the church. I am very grateful to Clayton for giving me that opportunity, but for those of you in this listening audience,

you may want to tune into something called Impressions of the Prophet Joseph Smith, then you'll know for sure, hey, this lady really does have a testimony. I am a believer. Susan, thank you for being here. Oh, it's been a treat to see you both. We hope everyone will go over to Impressions of a Prophet.com. What a wonderful treat, especially for those who were once in your class who think, Oh, I'd love to hear that again.

Well, guess what? I remember that day. A lot to listen to. I just want to be more like Captain Fear Not, except I don't want to depart early from this life. Yeah, watch out what you ask for, right? Susan, what a treat again to have you back on Follow Him. I know you don't think this, but it's truly legendary your career at BYU. I work in the building where you used to work.

It's an honor to get to talk to students. They'll say, my parents, my dad, my mom had Susan Easton Black, and I think, oh, I'm so sorry, you have me. That's still being passed on. I just feel like that is noteworthy. It's beautiful to give your life to speaking good of the prophet Joseph Smith. From Muran, I said his name would be known for both good and evil. Sometimes we don't speak enough good, but you have. Thanks for being one of those voices.

It's the real one, John, the real Joseph Smith. Not the villain that someone has created. With that, we want to thank Dr. Susan Easton Black for being with us today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen. We also, every episode, remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. And we hope you'll join us next week. Things are going to continue to get darker and darker for the saints. Next week on Follow Him.

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David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Crystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Cabuica, Sidney Smith, and Annabelle Sorensen. Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to him. Follow him.