Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 12-13 / JSH 1:66-75 Dr. Scott Esplin : Part II

Episode Date: February 9, 2021

 Have you ever wondered how and when the Aaronic Priesthood was restored? We continue with Dr. Scott Esplin and discuss the process of the ongoing Restoration (Melchizedek Priesthood included) and learn how the sons of Levi apply to us today. These were days “never to be forgotten” and we learn how today we also have a bright and glorious future. Join us to enjoy learning more about Joseph Smith and our part in the Gathering of Israel. 

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. I have a question for you, Scott, as a historian. Someone might say, well, how come they took five years to record this? How come it took, you know, whatever amount of many years? And then they assume that if something like this happened to them, they would write it down immediately. And I think sometimes our assumptions can, our assumptions about what we would do if we were in this situation can get in the way of us kind of trying to put ourselves in

their position. What would you say about that? As a historian. We ought to be really careful not to apply a 21st century perspective or assumption on how we might act on individuals in a very different time and place. We don't always know that the events that are happening in the instant are going to be impactful in our future. Obviously, one would expect, well, gee, that was a visit of an angel. How could you not know? Well, there's reasons they record what they do record and reasons they don't record what they don't record.

I'm a quick example. I'm a terrible journal keeper. I could be better at it. I need to be better at it. When I was a college student, the only time I wrote in my journal was when I broke up with somebody. It was therapeutic. It was whatever. And I had some spectacular breakups about which to write and so That's really not an accurate reflection of my life as a college student If my posterity were to ever read that journal and think wow dad just moved from one breakup to another That's all I really didn't but but then fast forward I Didn't write a single contemporaneous reference to dating my wife.

Why? We never broke up. I had no reason to write about her. And so it was after we were married, actually. After we were married that I realized, oh, yeah, I probably should have written something down. And so I tried to go back and recreate the event. I wrote, my wife knows this.

I had to look in her journal to see when we got engaged so I could write about it in my own. And so we're critical of Oliver or Joseph who write down things after the fact. Well, guilty is charged. We do the exact same thing. I think back on my journal, I think, if you read my journal, you think I just went from trial to trial.

Cause I think that's the only time I wrote my journal when things were really hard. That's why I wrote my journal. Yeah, that is not an accurate. That would not be an accurate view of what I actually experienced. But that's the thing. So the assumption is that you would cover every event,

you make a bad assumption that you would cover every event, you make a bad assumption that you would cover every event equally the same way. I mean, I'm already going, I've made an assumption that, and I don't know, maybe somebody does, did he write this in 1834 and tuck it away or did he publish it in 1834 and write it right then? Was it something he recorded at the time and, hey, let's publish this a few years later. Do we even know that? I think he is actually telling it is what he's doing in this time period.

Oliver Cowdery is acting as a missionary. And Oliver Cowdery is talking to individuals about the need for authority and his source for authority. And I think that's what sparks a desire to, you know, let's write this down and publish it in a church-owned newspaper so that more people know the origins of our authority. So that's, that's the 1834 account.

Then the 1838 account, Joseph Smith's history borrows some of the language. And then I believe Joseph Smith expands that language. So you'll notice that all of a Caldrie calories account in 1834 doesn't preserve the full language that we have in Dr. Nacabinus 13 from John the Baptist. It's only a shorted version of that phrase. And in Joseph Smith's history, and then later in 1876, when the church chooses to canonize that particular verse

and make it in the section 13, they've taken what Joseph, what are all of his original, Joseph's expansion and fully canonized it. So I think a lot of that's going on, John. There's some reasons why all of her chooses to publish it and then the church chooses to use it in 1838 and later when it's canonized as a section.

But I do look at the differences. The differences I think are important. It's in the second to the last paragraph of the Oliver Cowdery account. The Sons of Levi. Yes, it says, upon you, my fellow servants in the name of Messiah, I confer this priesthood and this authority.

You notice it doesn't discuss what the keys are, which shall remain upon the earth, that the Sons of Levi may yet offer no return under the Lord and righteous. And that change from that to until is an important one. I don't think we need to necessarily imply that the day is coming someday when the eronic cresteds no longer on the earth. These are just different people remembering what they recall the words to be as late as five years after the fact or nine years after the fact. We probably have people listening who are driving very carefully with their hands at 10 and 2.

Please, please do that. We encourage that here at the podcast. But would it, it's only one paragraph. Could I just read the whole? Please do so. You're talking section 13. Please do. Yeah. So, okay. Upon you, my fellow servants in the name of Messiah, I confer the priestative Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins.

And this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again and offering unto the Lord in righteousness. Well, you know, some of our listeners may remember years ago, President Hinckley, in a priesthood session of General Conference, had all the young men stand and try to recite for memory section 13. You can imagine how miserably that would have gone. And then he charged them, he says, this is the charge and charter of the priesthood you hold. I challenge you to go home and memorize it. And, and so I love to hear those words read.

It is, it is what the Aaronic priest is supposed to do. We are to be about calling people to repentance. We have the authority to baptize. We have the authority to baptize. We have access to the ministering of angels. I find that one intriguing because here is an angel saying that the ironic priest it holds the key to the ministering of angels. I, President Hinckley said, you know, as far as I'm concerned, that is literal. We're not just talking, acting like an angel. And I think that is one application. Don't don't get me wrong.

Yeah. I mean, I think about what the book of Mormon says of the sons of Mosiah when he say our converts did view us as angels. That I think when we serve our fellow man, we can be angels. But President Hinckley and then later President Oaks in general conference interpreted that in a more literal sense. I can read to you, President Oaks quote, President Oaks said this, When I was young, I thought such personal appearances were the only meaning of the ministering of angels. As a young holder of the eronic priesthood, I did not think I would see an angel, and I wondered what such appearances had to do with the eronic priesthood. But the ministering of angels can also be unseen, angelic manifestations can be delivered by a voice or merely by thoughts or feelings communicated

to the mind. Most angelic communications are felt or heard rather than seen. How does the eronic priesthood hold the key to the minister of angels? The answer is the same as for the spirit of the Lord, then it quotes 2nd Nephi 32, angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, wherefore they speak the words of Christ. Those who hold the Aaronic priesthood, open the door for all church members, who were the leapartake of the sacrament, to enjoy the companionship of the spirit of the Lord,

and the ministering of angels. I believe that angels are real. And John the Baptist is a witness of that. And so when he brings back the key to the ministering of angels, he's giving us access to the means whereby he and his companions can communicate. And that's not always visual, as President Oak said, more often than not, it'll be felt or heard rather than seen.

But angels are real. This is Elder Holland. I talked Elder Holland gave a number of years ago, where let me see if I can find it for you. Give us the Oaks reference too. Sure. President Oaks reference is General Conference October 1998. This is Elder Holland. One of the earliest talks I know that he gave as a new apostle. This is Elder Holland speaking at BYU in 1994, shortly after becoming an apostle. May I suggest to you that one of the things we need to teach our students and one of the things

that which will become more important in their lives, the longer they live, is the reality of angels, their work in their ministry. Obviously, I speak here not alone of the angel Maroni, but also of those more personal ministry angels who are with us and around us, empowered to help us, and who do exactly that. Perhaps more of us, including our students, could literally or at least figuratively behold the angels around us if we would but awaken from our stupor and hear the voice of the spirit as those angels try to speak, angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost. Then it concludes, I believe we need to speak of and believe in and bear testimony to the ministry of angels more than we sometimes do. They constitute one of God's great methods

of witnessing through the veil. Angels are real and the Aaronic priesthood through its ordinances, especially the ordinance of the sacrament, gives us access to the Holy Ghost and angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost. Thank you. So did either of you see, is it Donald Perry's book on angels? Couldn't put it down. It was so good, so comprehensive about angels and all of these things. And I just wanted to add to that that elder Holland, that's in saying we should talk more of it. There in the Come Follow Me manual, it says, you know, it might

be helpful to study some of the phrases you find in section 13. And it gave three bullet points. The keys of the ministering of angels and it refers to a Jeff R. R. Holland talk, the ministry of angels, November 2008, which would have been then October conference of 2008. And you may remember that. I think he tells the story of a, of a boy. Is that the talk? He tells the story of a boy being visited by person dressed in white, something like that. Oh, I don't remember the talk.

I just referring to it here. I don't look it up. Great. And then the keys of the gospel of repentance. And he, they give the reference in the come Follow Me, Manual 2, an Elder Dailogy, Rendlin Talk in November 2017. So it would have been October 2017 conference. And then the Sons of Levi has those three phrases and invites you to look up Guide to Descriptures on Aronic Priesthood and also under the topic of Levi. Anyway, the idea of angels, um, is it's a fascinating one.

And I'm glad you said what you did about, I suppose there's different capacities and different times when even mortals connect as angels like the sons of Mosaic. But, uh, what a fascinating thought that what did Elder Oak say their communications are more often felt felt or heard rather than seen yeah and I I also just your points are really good when John we've recently changed the names of the ways we serve in the church to use that term ministering from home and visiting teaching so So this section, it talks about the ministry of angels. Well, I ought to be a ministering angel in that regard to those around me. But I do believe we're also talking literal here. Yeah. I love also the discussion of the gospel of repentance. We talking class, I think when I, in my classes here on campus, when we talk about this section, most students readily associate

the key to baptism by immersion for the mission of sins with the eronic priest. I will always have a handful of students who maybe baptized someone as a priest or were baptized by an eronic priest at holder. But that middle one as well, they hold the key to the gospel of repentance. I think we sometimes think of the sacrament and other ways and things we do associated with repentance, but I would also remind our listeners, there is an individual in our war and our war who is an ironic priesthood official who exercises the key to the gospel of repentance.

The bishop is the president of the ironic priesthood in my war and he and his priesthood holds the key to the president of the eronic priesthood in my ward and he and his priesthood holds the key to the gospel of repentance when I need help with repenting There are sometimes when that person who holds that key needs to help me and and that's a very literal way that we apply that key today The bishop holds the key to the gospel of repentance in my particular award. And I'm grateful that he exercises that key on our behalf. I've always told the youth and Mike that I've talked to that the bishop is like he's got some, he's got superpowers. There's sins that some reason can't, for some reason, you can't get rid of sometimes on your own. They just do not let go. But man, you go in there with that bishop and he has the pie. He just, he start talking to him and you'll see those sins die

so fast. There's just, there's, there's a power in, in that gospel of repentance. I really like that you brought that up, Scott, the key to the gospel of repentance. And no one should, and we shouldn't be scared of our bishop, right? John, John, you served his bishop. Don't be scared of our bishop, right? John, John, you served as bishop. Don't be scared of the bishop, right? I tell you, I love Elder Neil Anderson's new book about forgiveness and some of the things he said. And when I did act as a bishop, I was more than once impressed with how forgiving the Lord is.

When I had guessed how things might go. I mean, and that's a testimony of experience. Good. I have a hard time imagining someone being afraid of John. I did, you don't strike me as someone that time. You strike me as very approachable, John. I've tried to strike fear and dread. It doesn't come across real well for some reason. Now Scott, I have a couple of questions

and we'll get into this in later podcasts. I don't feel like you have to cover this in completely. But do you think, John the Baptist says, it says in the heading of section 13, that the angel explained that he was acting under the direction of Peter James and John, the ancient apostles who held the keys of the higher priesthood, which was called the priesthood of Melchizedek. Do you think that Joseph and Oliver understand Aaronic, Melchizedek, priesthood at this point the way we understand it today? No, not at all. But I don't think, well, it's hard to say because what I don't know is you have a couple of cryptic phrases, things like in the account of the first vision where he says, and he told me many other things,

which I can't write it this time, or the visits of Marona, they last all night, and yet I can read them in about five minutes. And so it's hard to say what Joseph knows and hasn't told us. But in terms of the record that survives, those terms, Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods don't originate here. They aren't used in this period of church history. I think they start to originate in 1835. Section 107 says that there are two priesthoods, namely the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods. And so I think we're still a little bit ahead of time in terms of Joseph fully understanding or at least Joseph fully revealing to us in the record how the priesthood will function in terms of two priesthoods. The 1838 account from which that section heading is drawn, so Joseph Smith

history, it doesn't just say that they were acting under his direction, but if you go to verse 72, it says he, John the Baptist, acted under the direction of Peter, James and John, who held the keys, the priesthood of Melchizedek, which priesthood he said would in due time be conferred upon us, and that I should be called the first or the first elder of the church, and he all of our Caldary the second. And so in the text in Joseph Smith history, it gives us a little more information. Not only is there a Melchizedic priesthood, but it would be conferred upon us in the future. And so that's the best I could give you. If as Joseph, but again, Joseph's recording this in 1838, after he obviously clearly understands, Aaronic and Melchizedic priesthood divisions. But the that's the visit by John the Baptist isn't just the words that John read, which are great. There also is apparently an indication that Moore is coming.

This is a crucial skill you're talking about here, and that's the ability. We wanna make our listeners at least little tiny mini historians, right? Or they have some basic skills of not assuming this is being recorded at the exact time. And so Joseph knows a lot by 1838 that he didn't know in 1829. And that's going to influence the way he tells the story, right? He's going to use terms that he might not have actually used in 1829.

But he would use them in 1838 when he tells the story, right? And his listeners would know those terms by 1838. 1838 is printed in the Church's, eventually later printed in the Church's newspaper in Nauvoo. And so readers are going to be people who know the terms eronic, Melchizedek, and yet in 1829, we've even, I've missed, I've done it in this podcast. I've referred to Joseph Knight being a, in the section before, Joseph Knight being a great member of the church. There is no church in 1820. And so we slip into that of applying language that, that we think would have used, that, that,

there is no church, there aren't two priesthoods quite yet. But there is a promise that more is no church, there aren't two priesthoods quite yet. But there is a promise that more is coming. And we don't know all the details. Unlike the eronic priesthood where we have a fixed date, May 15th, 1829 on the banks of the Susquehanna River, Harmony, Pennsylvania, we don't have quite that level of detail for the Melchizedic priesthood. We do have some hints, some important hints. And you'll probably talk about this in future podcasts. Yeah. But in section 128 of the Doctrine and Covenants, this is in Nauvoo now. Joseph Smith reflects back on his previous experiences. And he tells us that Peter James and John came on the banks of the Susquehanna River between Harmony and Colesville. So that's where we know where the priesthood

restoration, the Mechazate priesthood, least the visit of Peter, James and John occurred is from section 128. But that's clear into Nahu, when Joseph's remembering that. Then you have section 27 of the doctrine of covenants, which is again 1830, where it speaks of Peter, James and John having come in the past tense. So in verse 12, and also with Peter and James and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you and confirmed you to be apostles and a special witnesses of my name. So that's by August and this section is August and September of 1830. And so we don't have all of the detail about restoration of Melchizedek priesthood that we would like. I would love to have more

I think we have plenty of evidence that it occurred Joseph talks about it who was involved Peter James and John Where it occurred on the banks of the Susquehanna River between Harmony and Colesville So then we try to try and you late and you figure out when was Joseph in that area? But but we don't know the exact date and time. Yeah. And I'm okay with that ambiguity.

Again, let's not assume that let's not apply what we think we would have done in those situations to what they may have done. And so just because they may not have written it down or may not have recorded it, well, that's a different time and place. And also, I think I love what President Nelson has been helping us with, to view the restoration as an ongoing event, that there's more yet to come. President Oucdorf has done the same. Elder Oucdorf has done the same. That we,

are we sleeping through the restoration? That there's more yet to come. And let's think about the Melchizedek priesthood in that regard. Yes, Peter, James and John came and brought back the keys of the Apostleship. But they didn't bring back at least authorized Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery to do everything with that priesthood yet. Moses, Elias and Elijah still come in the Courland Temple and bring additional priesthood keys.

And so when we talk about restoration of the Melchizedic priesthood, which isn't the focus of section 13, of course, we should keep in mind that it spans multiple events with multiple participants across multiple periods of time in terms of getting back the fullness of those priesthood keys. Yes, Peter James and John brought back keys, but so did Moses, Elias, and Elijah in the current land temple in April of 1836. Yeah, I just think this is this skill that I think our

listeners are picking up as we interview historians. History's a lot more complicated than we kind of assume. We kind of assume we're just taking a camcorder and we're watching events as they unfold, but there's a lot of dynamics versus memory versus, you know, time passed, things that you know later as you record past events, there's a lot that goes into this,

and we just can't, I don't know, we've just got to be careful with history, right? We just, we'll be a little more careful with it. You know, some students will ask, at the end of section 13, the sons of Levi do offer an offering again unto the Lord in righteousness. And they'll say, well, what does that mean? Well, here's another skill that we should consider. It may have meant different things across different

time periods. Yeah. There are references by Joseph Smith to to a time when maybe he thought in a literal sense this way, that as part of the restoration of all things, the sons of Levi would offer an offering again unto the Lord and righteousness. And there's a quote by Joseph Smith about that. Later on in Nauvoo, in section 128 of the doctrine of covenants, Joseph Smith writes a letter while he's in Nauvoo to the saints, and he interprets it very differently. In verse 24, he says, let us therefore as a church and as a people and as Latter-day Saints,

offer into the Lord an offering in righteousness. Let us present in his holy temple when it is finished a book containing the records of our dead, which shall be worthy of all acceptation. And so this idea that even a phrase could be reinterpreted prophetically by the same person across time is a skill we need to understand and be comfortable with. That Joseph will learn more and add more insight and give us different interpretations across time. I love to tell my students, relatively speaking, we're a young church. We're still becoming acquainted with our own scriptures.

We've made assumptions about the Book of Mormon that later on, we're going, hey, where do we get that from? For example, did we always think that Lehigh and Surah and we're the only ones here? Well, Book doesn't say that. Why did some assume, you know, things like that? And I, so with, with these people too, I, I just love Elder Holland saying, all that God has ever had to work with is imperfect people. It must be incredibly frustrating. And everybody deals with it.

And then added, and so should we, these are just folks, they're simple folks trying to do the best they can. And should be mad if they remember something differently a little later or whatever. I've always said to it's easy to critique people who are dead because they're not here to defend themselves. Right. Yeah. You know, how will we be critiqued when this podcast that is now recorded and locked in in a certain way? Five years from now, 10 years from now, when we have a new additional life.

Maybe we got something wrong. Yeah. And I'm not actually saying, and I know you're not either, John, I'm not saying Joseph got either wrong. Another possibility is that both are right. Maybe, maybe there's both. And maybe there's a third and maybe there's a fourth. Maybe there's something we haven't even considered yet.

And I love that that things can have multiple interpretations and multiple applications in this ongoing restoration. In section two, where would the earth be smitten with the curse, or would it be utterly wasted? Well, maybe they're both true on a different level. And the way that Marona said things a little bit differently, to me, he added a little bit more. He gave us a little more light. So it, he added a little bit more. He gave us a

little more light. So it's not one's right, the other's wrong. It's a scripture is dynamic, it's not static. It profit can come and add something and clarify something if he wants. Now, one thing I think that I've been impressed with so far this year and come follow me is impressed with so far this year and come follow me is we get to watch Joseph Smith grow in understanding who he is, who the what the church is, what his role is in that church, what everyone else's role is in that church, and it's so fun to get rid of the idea that he knew how this was going to turn out where it was going to go. You know, we gotta get to Utah, to build the conference center. You know, instead he is, I don't wanna say they're winging this, but the Lord has definitely not thrown out the entire plan in front of them.

They're picking this up piece by piece, and we are the same way in our life. I know that's how I am with parenting, with in my own careers and religious educators. I am kind of winging this with the light knowledge that I have, and I'm moving forward with what I have hoping and knowing that I'm going to get more as I move forward. You know, back to the story of the restoration of the eronic priesthood, that's exactly what Joseph Smith says, after they had been baptized, after they ordained each other to the eronic priesthood, that's exactly what Joseph Smith says. After they had been baptized,

after they ordained each other to the eronic priesthood, verse 74, our minds being now enlightened, we began to have the scriptures laid open to our understandings, and the true meaning and intention of their more mysterious passages revealed unto us in a manner which we never could attain to previously. Nor ever had before had thought of. All the sudden things were open up to them, they had never seen before. And that's how it happens in our lives. Where did you just read from? That's where 74 of Joseph Smith history.

I know that my 14 year old son is gonna be like, hey dad, who are the sons of Levi? And what are they gonna offer? Can you just, is there a little bit of background there? Just give us a little bit of old testament background to how would I give my son a two minute, three minute answer on that and not sound like I don't know what I'm talking about? And I apologize now as you've referred to, I am a a church historian. So I apologize for any of my old testament colleagues if I get this wrong. Okay. Levi is the brother of Joseph in the Old Testament. One of the 12 tribes and the Levites were charged with administering ordinances in the priesthood.

The sons of Levi in a literal sense would be those of the tribe of Levi. But I think we need to be careful as we've discussed. I'm not sure we have to read it literally. Go to section 84 of the doctrine of covenants, where it says, we refer to this as you both know as the Oath and Covenant of the priesthood. In section 84, it talks about, this is where I was in my mind thinking, Aaron, Moses, Look in verse 33. And actually, if you want to go up a little bit further, verse 31 refers to the sons of Levi, the sons of Moses and Aaron, who are of the tribe of Levi, offering an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the Lord in a temple that will be built in the future. That's verse 31. But then verse 33, and who so was faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which

I have spoken, and the magnifying they're calling are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies, they become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham and the church and kingdom and the elect of God. As I obtain both priesthoods and magnify my calling, I can become a son of Moses, a son of Aaron. And so I think we assume the sons of Levi are, like I said, one of the tribes, a brother of Joseph and the other brothers, children of Jacob or Israel. But Dr. Nantz, Covenants 84 doesn't have to make it that literal. Anyone who obtains the priesthood and faithfully serves in that priesthood can become a son of Moses,

priesthood and faithfully serves in that priesthood can become a son of Moses, a son of Aaron. And will they then offer sacrifices in the temple? Like verse 31 says, and again, like we looked at in section 128, the sacrifices when you get to 128 seem to be work for our dead. The sacrifices we make in serving our ancestors in performing ordinances. So in answer to what would I tell my 14 year old son or your 14 year son my my son's 12. I would tell him as you go and perform ordinances in the house of the Lord, you have the priesthood, you are acting as a son of Levi and you are performing sacrifices by by missing out on watching a baseball basketball game, a baseball game, uh doing things with your friends um to go serve in the house of the Lord and um you're offering an acceptable offering is what section 128 says worthy of all acceptation and so I think that has more a little more application than then then so do I I really like what you said there.

And I think you'd agree with me that I could do that same thing for my daughter as well. Exactly. Right. As you take part in these. Oh, I might. Yes, we need to emphasize that our daughters, our wives, women in the church, as has been clearly taught, exercise priesthood authority in the house of the Lord. And so, and so yeah, I, I, I, so, yes, and answer to your question, who are the sons of Levi, one of the 12 tribes, uh, brother of Joseph, brother Ruben, Samian is a car naphtali and everyone else that's in Joseph,

an amazing technical dream coat. But, uh, but, um, the, uh, but this section gives me other options besides that. Yeah. Oh, I really like how you open that up. I'm going to enjoy teaching that. I think to my kids instead of being a little nervous about it, I'm going to say, oh, look at how this may be understood today as a whole of us. Mike McCay said that I really liked is, and this fits into it perfectly, is these things that Joseph Smith is restoring are very service oriented? It's giving to others. It's always giving to others not taking. And the restoration of the priesthood

is yet another time where the Lord says, here is something for you to give to others. The Lord is hands on your own head. Yeah, you cannot give yourself these pre-stood blessings. So sometimes when we talk about pre-stood, it seems quite exclusionary. When it really is not, it's an inclusionary thing because the Lord is saying in order for you to actually use what I'm giving you, you have to have other people involved because this won't work without others. So do you have any thoughts on that idea of Joseph Smith is always restoring things that do not serve him but always create more opportunities for him and us

to serve others? Let's go back to the language that John the Baptist used. Upon you, my fellow servants, we've emphasized that word, fellow for a minute, but he used upon you, my fellow servants. We've emphasized that word fellow for a minute, but he used the word servants. He didn't say upon you, my fellow directors, on you, my fellow leaders executives heads executives. We are to be servants upon you, my fellow servants in the name of Messiah. I confer the priesthood of Aaron. The eronic priesthood and by association, the Malkesitic priesthood brings with it a

clear expectation that this is to be used to serve. And John the Baptist, I think said that in the words he chose to say when he restored that priesthood. Upon you, my fellow servants. I really like that. Thank you. The very first lines that Oliver gave in that little summary after Joseph Smith history, I just love the phrase, these were days never to be forgotten. And I'm thinking about President Nelson who told us that 2020 would be unforgettable and that we can can help make these days never to be forgotten. When we try to do what this section is, what what Joseph Knight was told to do, seek to bring forth an established Zion and and get that same

Oliver Caldery type excitement that he had that he is reflected in what he wrote and and try to make these days that would never be forgotten. I the love the spirit of that and kind of the charge of that was given to to Joseph Knight, who we became a coin with a little bit today. Yeah, that that's great. John, thank you. I love that idea that that these days were in the middle of a pandemic. We can't associate in person with each other. But these can be great days too. Yeah. And and and 1834 wasn't always perfect for Joseph and definitely 1838 wasn't perfect for Joseph. perfect for Joseph and definitely 1838 wasn't perfect for Joseph. But, but man, these were days never to be forgotten. And so are our days. And so we're all children's days. I have a daughter who's getting to that age, she, our oldest is 13 and she's getting to that age where she's starting to worry, you know, just anxieties as Joseph describes using that phrase in the first vision account. And I want her to know, your days are going to be great days that you can have a bright and glorious future, that there is hope and goodness ahead. And you don't have to be worried about, well,

what if we're getting closer to the second coming? And things look scary then, and things look difficult and dark. And well, yeah, but they also look glorious. And these can be days never to be forgotten for all of the positive things that can occur not just the negative ones. Scott, I can't thank you enough for all you've given us today. I have a question for you that I'd like to finish with. You know this church history as well as anyone.

And I know you're gonna say, well, there's others who know it more than me. And I know that, you know, you guys, there isn't a ranking of church history. Who knows more, right? Among you and your peers. But you know as much about the history of the church, especially during this time period, is any, is any critic would know? You spent what? Almost I would say how long it's, it's been three decade, two and a half decades of your life. Teaching this. Thank you for just dating me about that. As if the gray hair doesn't already do that. So I would love to hear, and I'd love for our listeners to hear your personal thoughts on Joseph Smith, the restoration and what it's done for you personally. Yes, you're an academic. Yes, you are what I would describe as brilliant. But what has this done for you personally?

Thank you, Hank and John. And before I say that, thank you for letting me be with you today. I've really enjoyed and learned from both of you. So thank you. Um, I tell my students sometimes, uh, everything I hold dear, um, Yes, I've studied our history in depth and the more that I learn, the more that I love, Joseph Smith and the restoration that God accomplished through him. But in terms of an answer to your question, everything I hold dear, the priesthood we've discussed today that I'm blessed to be ordained to.

The blessings that priesthood has brought in my life, the ministering of angels, the gospel of repentance, the blessing to be baptized and receive a remission of sins and and gain entrance into the kingdom of God. And then we didn't even talk about it, but the blessings that the Mokehs de Preestid has brought in my life. The family that I love, that can be together forever because of the powers associated with those preestudes.

The job that I adore, I, we have the world's greatest job. I get to teach and testify of the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ on a daily basis. The mission that I served, John and his introduction went way back to a long time earlier in my life and the mission that I served.

Everything that I hold dear, the people that I associate with in my ward, the people that I associate with in my ward, the people that I get to serve with and serve through my calling. All of that somehow ties to the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The fact that we have a living prophet on the earth today, the fact that we have mouth pieces that speak on behalf of God, I, it, to use the phrase of all of our Calgary, these are days never to be forgotten. And, and we live in a time that I hope I never forget,

a time in the gathering of Israel, the ongoing restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And, and so I, I love it. Everything I care most about connects to this, the things we've been talking about today. I love the people in church history. We've talked about Joseph Knight. I resonate with the Joseph Knight characters. I love the lesser known individuals. I feel like them. And I find role models in them. And so I'm grateful for the restoration. I am grateful for its ongoing impact in my life.

Just so many takeaways today that so many notes I've scribbled. This is what a blessing. I'm just happy to be here. Thanks, guys. And I can tell that I'm feeling an increase to the spirit, because I'm excited to share this with my family. I'm excited to talk about these things with others. It's, I think there's there's something about the Holy Ghost. At least for me personally, my language is a kind of the language of excitement. Thank you, Scott, so much Dr. S. One. Thank you for being here, and to you, our listeners. Thank you so much for listening. And we hope you'll join us on the next episode. We also want to thank our producers, Steve Sornsson and our production team,

David Perry and Lisa Spice. Join us next time for another episode of Follow In.