Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 135-136 Part 1 : Dr. S. Michael Wilcox

Episode Date: November 20, 2021

Doctrine & Covenants 135:Would you die for your testimony of Savior? Dr. S. Michael Wilcox returns to reflect on the life and  teachings of Joseph as we reflect upon love, purpose, and the eternities. The lessons include how the Lord multiplies sacrifice and abilities to perform miracles as we discuss Joseph and Hyrum’s final lessons as they are killed  at Carthage Jail.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/episodes/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive ProducersDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Sponsor/MarketingLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Assistant Video EditorAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsKrystal Roberts : French TranscriptsIgor Willians : Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith and I'm John by the way. We love to learn, we love to laugh, we want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith, I'm your host. I'm here with my loyal co-host John by the way. Welcome John. Thank you. It's good to be loyal. Yes, you are loyal. You are absolutely loyal in every way

We want to remind everybody before we get started to come find us on social media on Instagram and Facebook. Please there's lots of extras on there. Maybe you haven't seen. We have a website, follow him.co, follow him.co. And we would love for you to rate and review the podcast. I think I covered it all there, John. Big week this week, section 135 of the doctrine, covenants. Who's joining us, John?

We were so glad to have a S Michael Wilcox back with us again. And we've enjoyed having him before. I hope we'll have him again. I love his perspective and his beautiful way of putting things. And he has a very timely book recently called Holding On that was, I didn't publish this year, 2021, and I thought this is the most up-to-date bio that I could use to introduce brother Wilcox. As Michael Wilcox received his PhD from the University of Colorado and taught for many years at the Church's Institute of Religion adjacent to the University of Utah. He has spoken to Pact crowds at BYU Education Week, has hosted tours to the Holy Land

to China, and to church history sites and beyond. In fact, he mentioned Antarctica when we were preparing. And it's really hard to board the buses there, but it's a wonderful tour. Michael has also served in a variety of callings, including Bishop, Counselor and Estate Presidency, written many articles and books.

He and his late wife, Larry, are the parents of five children. So we're really glad to have you back. Thanks for joining us again. Thank you. It's fun. I can't think of two people I'd rather chat with than the two of you. Thank you. Really? Well, that means dreams do come true because when, yeah. And to talk about Joseph and Haram, I could be a better, a better way to spend a morning. about Joseph and Haram, I could be a better way to spend a morning. When I was a young seminary teacher, I can't tell you how much I loved just being taught from brother Wilcox. I just would be, I would love it for hours.

He would, he would come and just help us learn the scriptures as young seminary teachers. And it was, it was a joy really was. I, I, I, I'd never wanted it to stop eating was a burden as party would say I didn't want it to end. I have cassette tapes of CES imposiums explain to some of our listeners what I used to have at BYU Every August I guess a church educational system symposium with speakers and it gave me a bunch of cassette tapes afterwards. And boy, one of my favorites, Brother Wilcox, was you just did a whole bunch of things about Peter. A whole bunch of lessons from Peter.

I do remember. Peter, I love Peter. He's so human. Yeah, that was a great cassette. So many insights. I never was humanity so great. Yeah, that was a great cassette so many inside never was humanity so great. Yeah John this this week's a little bit different in that We're gonna actually have two guests this week. We're having brother Wilcox on for section 135 and then our friend Richard Bennett will be here for section 136 and that'll be in our second part this week But like I said, we are in section 135 and there may be no more important section event

in the history of the church in the latter days than section 135. So Brother Wilcox, how do we want to approach this? If you were saying, hey, we want to get the most we can out of section 135 before we jump into the verses. Well, you can get the history in a lot of places. I always hate to include Higby's and Fausters and Laws and the expositor with the beauty of Joseph Smith and Hiram. So I like to just take section 135 and not even the history of 135,

because everybody knows it. They know what Hiram said, they know what Joseph said. It's written by John Taylor. What does section 135 teach me personally? Joseph taught us a lot of things in the last part of his life, and I'll answer that question just a second. And you've looked at some of those things in the previous conversations you've had. Section 127, he teaches us to minimize our problems.

We don't live in a world where people minimize their problems. And Joseph says in 127, as for the perils which I am called to pass through, they all seem but a small thing to me, it's all become a second nature. Joseph didn't feel like a victim did he. Even in Carthage, he's going to take that attitude right into Carthage to the last moments of his life. He taught us to live joyfully. He taught us the spirits.

You go to section 128, these last great sections. He asks that wonderful question, now what do we hear in the gospel we've received? And then he answers it. I suppose you talked about that, a voice of gladness. He taught us to minimize trials and to live joyfully that the gospel was out about joy and gladness. He sings the new song. He sings the song of redeeming love in the last part of section 128. That he takes into Carthage, that same powerful idea. I think Joseph would say to us, I didn't go to Carthage for you to be miserable. I didn't go to Carthage for you to be burdened under excessive expectations of perfection. I didn't go

to Carthage for you to be full of guilt and sense of inadequacy. The gospel is about joy and happiness. I think Jesus would say the same thing from the cross. I didn't die to make you miserable. It's about joy. It's a gospel of joy. So those ideas that lead up the sections that lead up, section 132, eternal marriage, the day and say, when two people will not love each other forever, their love isn't worth talking about. let alone we're celebrating. And so Joseph ends his life with minimize your trials. Live and joy, commit to one another, love is eternal. These are things that we're worth dying for in Carthage. So I hate to use, I hate to talk about fosters and the Hickbees and expositor and Governor Ford.

I just almost hate to put Governor Ford in the same sentence, same period with section 1.35. Section 135. So people can read about it. But to me, where I got all started, Section 135, Joseph, after teaching so many beautiful things, is now going to teach us, he and Hiram, how to die. And what it is worth dying for. There's a... That's kind of what I... Let's do I would go. And it's not negative.

It's not a negative thing. The one thing that everybody shares in life, we all have different experiences. But the one thing we're all going to share is we're all going to face death. There's a Hindu, great classic set of riddles, where one of the gods asks a king a number of questions, and he asks to answer them and get them right. The last question is, what is the greatest wonder on earth? the answer is, every day people die, but nobody wakes up saying, today it may will come. The readiness is all. And when we get to section 135, he's ready.

They are ready. And he teaches us how to be ready. The last great lesson of Joseph and Hiram is how to be ready. So that's kind of where I usually go, but we can certainly talk about other things if you want. No, no, no. I want to go this direction.

In fact, it would be a good thing because we have a little bit of a sister podcast that I'll throw out there. Our friend, Dr. Garrett Dirkmont, has a podcast and it's called The Standard of Truth. And I think Garrett did, oh goodness, a few hours on the history of the martyrdom. I think it's his fourth, fifth, even a bonus episode there. So we can encourage people to, hey, if you want to know about Governor Ford

and John C. Bennett and all of these infamous characters who let's let up to the martyr all of these infamous characters who let up to the the martyrdom of these two great brothers, then there are plenty of resources out there. But since we have Dr. Wilcox here, John, let's let him take off. Absolutely. And I love this approach already. I'm going, wow, what a wonderful way to look at this. Joseph was ready. Higher room was ready. What are they, what are they teach us about? This is a great way to look at being ready.

It's a beautiful section. There's just a lot of beauty in it. And I brought a lot of stuff. I don't know how much we will use that I usually ponder and think about when I come to section 125. The ending of this magnificent man and what he teaches is at the end of his life. President Hinckley was not a big fan of Thomas Ford. He would speak of that often about how he felt the governor had betrayed Joseph. And there's a great story that I heard from sister Susan Eastern Black,

who she said that at one point Gordon, President Hinckley was visiting Springfield, Illinois, and asked where the grave of Thomas Ford was. And they went to show him, and he pulled over, and apparently he got out of the car, walked over to the grave, and just gave it a lecture, gave the headstone a lecture. And they said, we didn't know how long this was gonna last.

John, if I told you this story, they said, we didn't know how long this was gonna last. As he's out there just kind of pacing back and forth and lecturing this headstone. And then they said the window of the car rolled down and sister hinkley said, let it go, Gordon, let it go. John Taylor mentions the governor, but he doesn't give his name. He just says the broken faith of the governor of Illinois. He wouldn't even say his name. They were.

So that's always just been a story that I've enjoyed of Sister Hinckley saying, it's okay. Maybe we can all do that too. Let it go, everyone. Maybe we got it. We need to forgive Governor Ford too. If you are just brand new to our podcast, go back and listen to our, John, you remember section 64 on forgiveness with, that Mike was here with us last.

Beautiful. Yeah. How much we learned about God being a delightful forgiver. All right. Well, I guess, Mike, we're gonna, we're gonna basically hand the reins over to you and say, Oh, that's a dangerous thing. You know, it's the last great lessons of Jesus focus on the same thing. Those, I love those words, they're from Hamlet.

The readiness is all. The readiness is all, the readiness is all. Whenever it comes, Jesus' last lessons, he also taught us how to die. He died in forgiveness. You think about what he said from across. He died in forgiveness. He died in comforting others. He died in obedience to his father. We just look at so many wonderful, just things, sometimes at the end. Beginnings are wonderful things. The first vision is a beautiful thing. The beginning, a carthage is a beautiful thing. It's a terrible thing. Maybe share a line from a poem by Yates that I think about when I come to the end of section, on 35. But it's a beautiful thing also. Beginnings and endings are both lovely things. And in that sense, they teach us.

So how does Joseph Smith and how do Hiram go? Well, I'd start in verse four. We'll come back to verse one and three and talk about what he died for, because that's the second question I always think about when I come to these. In verse 4, when Joseph went to Carthage to deliver himself up to the pretender requirements of the law, John Taylor's angry, section 135 was written in pretty much typical 19th century, a little bit hyperbole, but he's upset by rights. Two or three days previous to his assassination, he said, I am going like a lamb to the slaughter. Now, I don't want to go that way, but I want to go, I want to live so that whenever it comes, I can say, at the end of my life, I am calm as a summer's morning. I have a conscience, void of offense towards God and towards all men. Wouldn't it be lovely to live every day?

And I sensed Joseph and Hiram saying to us across the age of the century, live your life in such a way that if it came tomorrow, right, the Hindu thing, everybody, the greatest wonder is that everybody knows people die every day, but nobody believes it's going to be them. The readiness is all I want to live my life so that every morning I'm calm as the summer's morning with the conscience void of offense towards God and towards all men. Then he says, I shall die innocent. And I know he's meaning in that a number of things. I know he's meaning innocent of breaking any law. He went to Carthage first on a charge of riot.

If we want a little history, they paid a $7,500 bail to get everybody out of jail. They were leaving. They were going to get back to Nauvoo, and then they changed the charge to treason for which there was no bail, which puts him in the jail. They were not going to let him leave Carthage. So I know I shall die innocent means I've not really broken any laws, but I also like We are born innocent in life. He teaches that back in section 93. We are born innocent. He overturns the whole idea of original sin. We are born innocent. I should like to think that we will die innocent. You know, my wife, just before she died, said something beautiful to me. She was a typical LDS woman. She lived with a lot of inadequacies and guilt and things,

you know, like we all do. But she said, for the first time in my life, I feel no guilt. I feel no shame. She died innocent. And I think that's the way God wants us to come back into His presence. I think things happen. And in those last moments, I think there's a final, bapt hyzene. If we've tried hard, if we've lived the best we can, I don't think we go into the spirit world carrying anything. I think we leave it and we die, we die innocent. There's two things that I wish we a John Taylor had put in here, from Carthage. One of them is the letter that Joseph writes to Emma, where he says, I am resigned to my fate. I think Joseph's sincerity was going to die. Great men generally sense it. Lincoln had an interesting dream. He sensed the end was coming. Martin Luther King, Jr. sensed the end was coming. Gandhi sensed the end was coming. Joseph sensed the end was coming. And he writes that to Emma, I am resigned to my fate. Knowing I have done the best I could.

And we want to live that way. That any day, every day we can say, Joseph wasn't perfect, but he did the best he could. And when you do the best you can, you die innocent. I believe that's true of all of us. I believe it was true of my wife. I'm certainly hoping it will be true of me. Mike, I wanted to mention one thing that I think you taught me before is also that that same type of attitude from the Savior when Judas, he criticizes Mary.

Do you remember him being anointed? I do. I love that story. He says she has done what she could. What she could. Yeah, Mark 14. She has done what she could. And that's what he's saying. Maybe at the end, I also brought Teddy Roosevelt's. I got just about everybody here that helps me create the emotion and the power that I like people to get out of section 135 that I try and get out of it. The second thing that I wish John Taylor had included, again from the history, was one of Joseph's last desires.

Do you remember what that was? He wanted to teach the saints one more time. I think readiness is always desiring to do a little more good with your life. When we come to the end, we always want to do a little more good. Dickens in Christmas Carol says, no life is sufficient for all the good of which it is capable. We always want to do a little more good. Joseph just wanted to do a little more good. We want to live every day that way. It's Moses. I call it the Mount Nebo moments. There's Moses up on Mount Nebo. He can see the Jordan River and the promised land, and he pleads with God. Let me do a little more, Lord. I just want to take him across. I just want to see that Goodly Mountain and help my people get to that goodly mountain. Moses died, Wani translated whichever one you want, died, wanting to help people see the goodly mountain. Joseph Smith died

wanting to help people see the goodly mountain. I just want to talk to him one more time. I did bring, I mentioned Martin Luther King Jr. One of my favorite people, one of the great Americans. I think it's interesting that America has a lot of holidays, but only one is an honor of an individual. And that individual we chose to honor as a holiday and of a person is Martin Luther King, Jr. And he talked about David, another person who just wanted to do a little more good. He just wanted to build a temple, was unable to build a temple. I think Joseph would have loved to have taken the saints west. I think he would have loved to have seen the Navout Temple finished. I think Joseph would have loved to have taken the saints west. I think he would have loved to have seen the Navout Temple finished. I think he would have loved to have seen them in a situation where they were safe from their enemies.

Just, I just want to do a little more. It's a very human emotion. And Martin Luther King, one month before his death, his assassination in Memphis, talked about David's desire to build a temple and not being able to finish it and in the scriptures, the Lord says to him, it was well that it was in your heart. It's just good that there was in your heart this desire to want to do more, just to do a little more. Let them help them see the Goodly Mountain just. And so he says in a speech called unfulfilled dreams, so many of us in life start out building

temples, temples of character, temples of justice, temples of peace. And at so many points we start, we try, we set out to build our various temples. And I guess one of the great agonies of life is that we are constantly trying to finish that which is unfinitiable. We are commanded to do that. And each of you this morning, in some ways, building some kind of temple. The struggle is always there. It gets discouraging sometimes. It gets very disenchanting sometimes. Well, that is a story of life

and the thing that makes me happy. I think Joseph died happy. I think Jesus died happy. I think Jesus's prayer and guest ceremony was also, he loved life. He loved the people around him. He would have liked to have lived another year and taught another year. This is a quality great people experience. They are never satisfied.

They always want to do a little more. And if that hunger is in me, that's a good sign. The readiness is all. I'm ready. I'm just going to say, Mike, it reminds me of my wife's mother, my mother-in-law, and her last few weeks alive. She was suffering with with cancer and it hurt her to hold the a needle but she still wanted to finish some quilts for her grandchildren. Right and so she would just hold that needle and it would hurt her to hold it, you know, to to pinch it but and each stitch was getting harder and harder but she's trying to get out every little piece of goodness.

We all want to be useful. Yeah, we just want to do a, it's a very common thing for great people who, for all of us, common people. Just reminds me, you're quoting Shakespeare and all these great men and I'm reminded of wisdom I got from a refrigerator magnet. There we go. Magnus give somewhere I saw. You only live once in that question mark. You only live once, question mark.

No, you only die once. You live every day. When I think of the him, have I done any good in the world today? I don't know about you guys, but I always think of President Monson because he just always seemed to be finding someone else he could serve and reach out to and send a note to or whatever. And one time I was at a time out for women and a sister held up her phone and showed me she got an

alert every single morning that said who needs me today? And it didn't say does someone need me today and it just said who needs me today and she would find something she would kind of pray about that and find something she could do even if it were a simple thing like a text message or a phone call or something, but I really love this idea of doing the best you can every day and kind of that mindset and that hunger. And be enjoyable, I can say, minimize your trials. Pass through, Joseph says, the trials I call to pass through. Those are Eve's words right at the

beginning of history. It is better for us to pass through sorrow, but we pass through it. Anyway, let me just finish this thing with Martin Luther King. He says, the thing that makes me happy is that I can hear a voice crying through the vest of time saying, it may not come today or it may not come tomorrow, but it is well that it is within thine heart. It is well that you are trying. You may not see it. The dream may not be fulfilled, but it's just good that you have a desire to bring it into reality. It's well that it was in my heart.

I think Joseph felt that way, and if I can live that way, I will die innocent. I will die calm as the summer's morning. I will die with a conscience void of offense towards God and towards all men. And I will more important. I will live that way. So he's teaching us some wonderful things in those. Some of his last phrases, some of the last words we get from Joseph Smith, the letter to Emma here in section 135 and some of the things that he said to those men who were around him. We go to Hyrum. Hyrum also teaches some of those same things. He turns down a page in his book of Mormon to the 12th chapter of either. One of the great moments of my life was being able to hold that book of more high-rise book of Mormon and open it to the page that he turned down. And Hiram's final message to us is a quote from the book of Mormon. So he takes the scriptures to express his emotions

as he faces these last moments of his life and he ponders the ways lived and what may happen to him in Carthage. So we go to verse 5, he's quoting Ether, Moroni speaking, it came to pass, I prayed unto the Lord that He would give unto the Gentiles grace that they might have charity. That's not a bad way to live our lives, praying even that our enemies, you know, in this case, might have grace that they might have charity. And it came to pass that the Lord said to me, if they have not charity, it mattereth not unto thee thou hast been faithful. I think one of the great things I learned from Hyam here and in his quotation is it doesn't matter what others do. What matters is that you have been faithful. If I could just get that into the mind of a lot of

later days Saints, I love, who are wrestling with various things. It doesn't matter whether others have charity or not, whether they understand you or not, how they treat you or not, whether they've offended you or not. In this case, they're going to kill him. What matters is that we have been faithful. And I think of that's the last conversation of Jesus with Peter and John the beloved at the end of the New Testament. John chapter 21, after Jesus asks Peter if he loves him, and Peter answers three times that he does love him. And then Jesus tells him at the end of your life, you'll be crucified. Follow me. It's a very ominous follow me. He's in the same place where

Jesus first told him to follow him on the North Shore of the Sea of Galilee. That first follow me was a Galilee, that first follow me was to learn, follow me to teach. Now we're saying, at the end of your life, if you feed the sheep, if you do what I am asking you to do, they're going to do to you what they did to me. They're going to crucify you, which has got to be a heavy burden for Peter to carry all his life. He knows that's coming. Well, John is following behind John, the beloved. And Peter turns around and Peter is like I say, so magnificently

human. We're always interested in everybody else's business. And he says, what shall this man do? Now, you can't get to wider ends of the continuum than a man who's going at the end of his life, die of crucifixion, Peter, and a man at the end of his life is not going to taste of death. John, that's pretty wide difference. And Jesus says to Peter, if I will, that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me. That's what I call the last follow me of Jesus. And the last follow me is saying,

it doesn't matter what other people do. It doesn't matter what happens in their life. That's between me and them. What matters is how you will follow. That's it. And the Lord is saying that, a higherum grabs that idea. I pray they'll be charitable. I pray that other people will be good.

They'll treat me well, but it doesn't matter how they treat me, what they say to me, how they offend me, I will follow. The Savior is saying, follow thou me. You've been faithful, Hiram. And that's an important way to live our lives. It's a very hard lesson to learn, because we always are letting other people impinge on our faith and how we believe and how we follow and and Jesus saying to Peter and Higher him turning that down is grabbing that principle and Telling us at the end of your life You just want to be able to say at the end of every day no matter what people do or say to you

I just want to always be able to say, today, I followed. I followed. I followed in spite of opposition. I followed in spite of criticism. I followed in spite of unanswered prayers that I followed in spite of unfulfilled dreams. I followed. I followed to the very end. You know, this reminds me of this is your quoting ether, which is Maroni, who abridged it, right? And then later, when Maroni wants to share with us, hey, this is the transcript of a talk my father Mormon gave and here's a couple of letters from my father and in Moroni 9.6 which is an epistle of Mormon. I love this beginning of verse 6. Now my beloved son notwithstanding their hardness let us labor diligently and it just reminded me of that same thing that can't focus on them not with standing them. Let's let us do this.

And that's exactly the same point I think that and here's the cool thing there is this is Maroni. He always seem to feel I don't know, what are the Gentiles gonna do? They're gonna mock and please bless them with grace so that they won't, and then he repeats that thing from his father in Ronin I know. Yeah, wonderful, wonderful cross reference. Things that are important for us to learn in the scriptures, God repeats. He repeats it. He says, I don't want you to miss this because it's such a key, it's such a key to life.

We go back to that fifth verse, wherefore thy garments shall be made clean. And then these words, because thou hast seen thy weakness, thou shalt be made strong, even under the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my father. I think there is readiness in seeing our weakness. I'm grateful that that is in there, because I certainly have seen my weaknesses. I go back to that address by Martin Luther King. He says, I don't know this morning about you, but I can make a testimony. You don't need to go out this morning saying that Martin Luther King is a saint. Oh, no, I want you to know this morning that I'm a sinner like all of God's children.

But I want to be a good man. And I want to hear a voice saying to me one day, I take you in and I bless you because you try. It is well that it was within thy heart. I accept you. You are a recipient of my grace because it was in your heart and it is so well that it was within my heart. Just that idea, we're trying, we've seen our weaknesses, I know my weaknesses, I'm going to carry weaknesses into the next life. But I think God is pleased that I'm aware of Him and I'm trying and that in those mansions he's prepared, I think he says, we'll take care of those in time, Mike. We'll take care of those in time. It's not just all mortality.

I go back to that fifth verse again with Hiram. He said, I bid farewell under the Gentiles, ye, and also unto my brethren whom I love. Readiness is in loving people to come to the end of life and have love. There's a passage in King Richard III, one of Shakespeare's plays, Richard has lived a very selfish life. He's lived a murderous life, he's lived a life for power, and when you live a life like that, when you live a life without loving, you end up this way. I use it as a contrast to high-rumbitting farewell to his brethren, whom he loves until we shall meet before the judgment seat of Christ. Anyway, this is what Shakespeare writes. Richard is at the end of his life. He's going to die in battle the next day. And he says, I shall despair. There is no creature loves me. And if I die, no soul shall pity me. Nay, wherefore should they? Since that I myself find in myself, no pity

to myself. What a sad ending to die, loving no one, and being loved by no one, not even loving yourself. No one that you hope to meet again in the hereafter. So, you know, there's... Muhammad was... Prophet Muhammad was once asked, what will help you in the hereafter? And he gave a number of answers. Knowledge that you have taught was one of the things that would help you in the hereafter. Charity that you have given, but also I loved his last one, the prayers of a child in your

behalf, a righteous child in your behalf, that you have raised. So the readiness is all. And we live in readiness every day, and one of the readiness is that we love, and that we are loved and that we have expectations of meeting those we love again in the hereafter. And what a blessing to just believe that that's possible. I mean, that love will continue, that our relationships will continue. What I'm just trying to imagine, what would be like not to believe that they continue, you know? I think of my mom and dad every day, my mom passed away in December and thankfully I just, I totally expect, you know, to see them again and to feel that again and Hank, you've lost people

and Michael, you've talked about that. So glad that there's that expectation there. Yeah, I think we want to die in love. There's a beautiful scene in little women, the Wiesemail Alcats, little women. All the women, certainly American women have grown up on Alcats, little women. Windbeth dies and she dies in love. She dies saying, I don't mind going. I think probably, again, I relate this to Jesus and to Joseph. She says, I don't mind dying. I don't mind going. I'm going to a good place, but I shall miss you. She says to her sister, Joe, I will miss you even in heaven. And I think Hiram says that, I say farewell to my brother and whom I love, and I will miss them.

I once went to the temple thinking about Larry and I think about her all the time every day. And kind of aster, is it beautiful where you are and felt that answer, you're not here. Are you happy, Larry, and felt the answer, I miss you. And I think that's true. I think Hiram and Joseph, I think those on the other side, Mrs. Love is just like we love them. We want to die with those relationships intact.

Husband, wife, parent, child, friends, brothers. I think it was a grace of God that he let Hiram go with Joseph. As I sense John Taylor sensed that power in when he says in life, they were not divided in death, they were not separated. Tyrum got to go at the brother he loved. Joseph got to go at the brother he loved and You know, there would be those on the other side so we There's readiness if we love and We want to live in love and the beautiful thing about the Latter-day Saint faith is that we have enshrined as our highest ordinance in the most holy and sacred of all places, eternal love. Latter-day

Saints take serious what love itself by its very nature demands, that it be eternal and everlasting and not ending. So I love that, my brethren, whom I love. And then the last thing I get from Hyrum is, at the judgment, all men will know, my garments are not spotted with your blood. Now, that's kind of a metaphorical language. I think what I get out of that particular phrase is, hire a missing. I was not part of the problem of humanity and earth life. I was part of the solution.

I don't, I don't want to go feeling that I've left somebody hurt, that I've hurt somebody by my actions, my decisions. Now, we're all going to do that. We're going to bump up against each other. We're going to hurt one another. But we want to try and do, we want to be a healer. Camu wrote at the end of one of his books. If I can't be a saint, I want to be a healer. I want to be part of the solutions to earth's problems. I don't want to be part of the cause of earth's problems. I want to go saying at the judgment, I've not spotted, nobody's blood is on me, okay? And by blood, I don't think, you know, I can say it's a metaphorical language. I have been part of the solution to human suffering. I have not been part of the problems. You know, when I was a kid in seminary, at Highland Seminary,

I don't remember who it might have been. I had Larry Gellwicks for when I was 16, the Highland Rugby Coach. He recruited me heavily for obvious reasons. But I, somebody showed us. Star player. That'd be me. I was about the size of the ball. But anyway, somebody showed me George Albert Smith's creed. And I don't know if you've ever seen that before. But there's something about like 10 statements or something. and I just remember a couple of them One of them was I would be a friend to the friendless

Which had a big impact on me in high school and another one was that reminds me of my garments are not spotted with your blood I would not be an enemy to any living soul. They're dying that way. I mean, they're hated, but I don't think they hate. I'm going to change the subject just a little bit. It's interesting to me the song that Joseph and Hiram wanted sung, a poor way, very man of grief, it's so intermingled with the martyrdom that it's hard to talk about the martyrdom and not think about that song. And there's a message in that song that seems so appropriate to think about when we talk about people giving their lives, sacrificing their lives, for something they believed in.

Now when you give your life for something, that doesn't mean what you gave it for is true. Sometimes we say that they seal their testimony with their blood. That's true, I'm not trying to belittle or diminish that. A lot of people have died for things that may not have been the best things to die for. But what it does say in the case of Joseph and Hyrum and many others is that they are sincere. He's not a fraud. He's not a deceiver. He's willing to give his life for this.

It is sincere. And a poor way of fairing man teaches a wonderful lesson in all of the verses, except the introductory verse. I won't go through the entire hymn, but what it teaches is that there really is in the eyes of God no such thing as sacrifice in the way that commonly we think of sacrifice. Benjamin in the book of Mormon got that message where he said, I can't thank God, and I can't serve him enough, because when I thank and I serve, he gives more. So here at the end of their lives, these two men that have given and sacrificed and suffered so very, very much. And there's this exclamation point of truth, contain in a poor, way, a very man of grief, as a statement about their lives.

you gave me bread, I give you the bread of life so that I never hunger. You gave me water. I give you living water so you'll never thirst anymore. I mean, I could read the lines, but I think people know if you take that hymn out and look at it. I give him my couch, the stormy night. I gave him my bed and wounds to heal him. I healed his body. He healed my broken heart. It's hard for me to read those and think about them. It's why I'm not reading, and I read this all start crying when I read a poor way, very men of grief, especially when I was just in Carthage a few weeks ago. Not because Joseph and Hiram died, but because of the message that God is giving him that

him to them and to us. And then the last part, I give my life. He asked if I for him would die, which is exactly what is asked of those two men. And I give him my life. And the Savior says, he gave me his life. he speaks my name without shame before the Father. Earlier in the doctrine of covenants, Jesus says, I will stand before the Father and say, this is Michael Wilcox, my brother, my friend. He calls him friends all through the doctrine of covenants, who believed in me, right? Accept them father into our presence. So I look at those, the lines, the message of a poor way for a man of grief, so appropriate. And I say, where's the sacrifice? Whatever I give, God gives back

greater. He gives back in higher intensity. And so yes, they gave their lives, but what they got was greater than anything we can ever give That's how we're ready when we understand that truth That's beautiful it it reminds me a little bit of How do we feed these 5,000 well bring what you have and? I will multiply it By a thousand, you know. Right. Or the brother of Jared, right? The brother of Jared. Here's my idea, rocks. I can...

Let me give you light, right? I will give you light. And there's no greater, greater example than Joseph's whole life. People sometimes criticize him. He was human. But I say of Joseph, as I say of Peter, never was humanity more magnificent in so many ways. Joseph brought his five flows and his two fishes. Joseph brought his stones, his molten stones. Joseph brought his little barrel of oil, a little barrel of flour like the widow's seraphath and the little crews of oil. He brought the vessel of oil in another old testament story. He brought his five loaves and his two fishes and God multiplied them.

And what God did with this boy was was magnificent, not not perfect, but magnificent, you know, in all that he did. magnificent in all that he did. Deenian Hirem or teaching is about living so that the readiness is all. We also learn what did he die for? And I think that's a very specific thing, that is taught in section 135,

and therefore would have a very specific application as to what I'm supposed to do with it. Please join us for part two of this podcast. you