Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 135-136 Part 4 : Dr. Richard E. Bennett

Episode Date: November 21, 2021

Doctrine & Covenants 136:President Bennett returns and teaches that the Restoration and faith had a price that the Saints paid. We consider the covenants the Saints made and the sacrifice as they leave America and seek Zion. President Bennett shares the history of the Pioneers as he serves as Site Director and Mission President of the Mormon Trail Center in Omaha, Nebraska, USA.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/episodes/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive ProducersDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Sponsor/MarketingLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Assistant Video EditorAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsKrystal Roberts : French TranscriptsIgor Willians : Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to part 4 of Doctor and Covins 135 and 136. I was going to ask you, Doctor Bennett, where is the closest place for them to even purchase anything? Did they got to go down into Missouri? I'm glad you raised that up. They went down to Missouri to get supplies. You know, the Mormon battalion provides them funds. And by the way, those funds went to the men who turned it over to their families and those wives consecrated that money to the church. It wasn't paid

to the church. So let's remember those wonderful women as well as the men who consecrated those funds to the church willingly. It's consecration. But they go down into Missouri. Bishop Whitney went down to Missouri by supplies and provisions. Many saints went down to work in the farms in Missouri and got their foods, supplies went heavy. The irony is that Missouri is the physical salvation of the Exodus. The good folks in Missouri, we thought we're going to be exterminated. They help fund us in our trials. And so that's not always give Missouri a black eye. They were there when we needed them. Should we put it that way?

Yes, there was extermination order, but not many of the Missourians were on our side, and we all had great debt to many of them. That's got to be the closest place to buy. That's right. That's right. Down in St. Joseph, in Banks Ferry, St. Louis, and other places along the Missouri River. Those are all Missouri towns. So I think we have to give a little bit of credit to that. I can't imagine getting that direction, go down to Missouri and buy things. Do you know what happened the last time I was in Missouri? Well, that happened crossing Iowa, too.

You know, when we crossed Iowa, we went on the southern side, and the southern portion of Iowa, not along the Des Moines River basin. And that's for the north. We deliberately went south, which is now highway two across Iowa, so that we could be close to Missouri. Because Missouri came into the country, became a state in 1821. Iowa was just a territory in 1821. Iowa was just a territory in 1846. There were many more farms in Missouri.

We went down the Grand River and other places that were going across Iowa. Sometimes in Cognito, I'll admit to that, but to get provisions from Missouri farmers and what have Iowa. And so again, this whole paradox of Missouri helping the Saints. I read in verse 28 and I'm sure you can speak to this. He says, if that weren't Mary, Praise Lord was singing with music, with dancing, with the prayer of praise and thanksgiving. That was something that Brigham and those around him believed in, the idea of singing and dance. Right? So even on the trail west, they're having these, they have a band. And they're dancing. Well for the Woodruff was a little bit concerned about them singing and dancing like that. And he says to Brigham Young, he says, you know, we shouldn't be doing all this and bringing him and says, hey,

they're suffering enough. Let them have a good time. Let them sing and praise. They're not going to hurt anybody. And so they had dancing schools. They had choir schools. You can make the argument actually that the our choral tradition, which we really began with the British Saints, but really flowers in winter quarters that perhaps even the Tabernacle choir can look back to winter quarters as a place of beginnings. We had balls, we had feasts. Don't think that winter quarters was only a terrible place. They tried to make the best out of a bad situation. There were romances, there were wonderful things happening in winter quarters. There were even ceilings. In my new book on Temple's Rising, we now know that winter

quarters was a place of tremendous covenant making. In Willard Richards, Octagon, which is just blocks away from where it was. It's not standing there now, but we know where it was. Brigham Young performed several ceilings of those who were dying. He's listening to his people. Brigham Young listens to the Lord with one ear and listen to his people with the other and They're suffering and they're dying and he knows that and they're begging him Keep my marriage be sealed here. I Wasn't that an avu? I never got there Most of Saints never did I

Know we did about 5,500 living endowments in the temple there, but a lot of the saints can't win her quarters, whatever, being a novel, they came off their missions and made a straight line to win her quarters. Can't we get the same blessings? Brick of Young listened to his people. That's one of the marvels of his leadership. That's one of the reasons why they're listening to this revelation because he's speaking for the Lord and they knew it. At least most of them, not all of them. Let's not say that everybody does, but most of them. This section to me is as I'm looking at it with you, can speak to someone today who is suffering.

For some reason or another, we know, we have, we lose loved ones. We people go through terrible divorces and trials, right, sicknesses, and this section can not only speak to the saints of 1846 and 47 who are suffering, but it can also speak to the saints of 2021 who are suffering. Oh, yes, it's a message for today as much as it was for winter quarters, 175 years ago. You know, this is the 175th anniversary next, this coming year of this revelation. It's something to be remembered. It's a, it's a milestone for the past and a, for the past and a mile marker for the future. Because it speaks to both the past and the future and the present.

Our friend Robert J. Matthews and his stories that he told of his involvement in putting together the new scriptures and of the Bible dictionary and so forth. And there's a whole documentary on BYU TV on demand called that Promise Day, which is fascinating. But just ever since then, I just, I love noticing things like the footnotes on page 284. For those of you who are using paper scriptures, I love what you're emphasizing about this section and this, the Lord speaking to Brigham Young because look at the footnotes. This is rich in, in counsel and doctrine and everything. And even I circled, I made a square around all the footnotes just on verse 28 about if you're married, praise Lord singing, music dancing, look at all of that. And so for those of you that aren't looking on paper, I just want you to see this is rich as Hank said in council for

anybody wherever they're at right now. I love what you said Dr. Bennett about this is a we thing. And the council is we've got to stay unified and I thought what is more uniting then let's have some parties, let's have some dancing and we are still a community that need each other So I just look at the vote if those of you looking at paper look at how many footnotes there are on verse 28 Yeah, they they had there was something called the silver graze. I guess that's why I kind of like this one because my hair is just a little bit wider than yours guys, but they had the silver grays that they would go around, that was a band, like pits, William pits, brass band, but this was called the silver grays and to the different

homes and they would play and they would have dances and they'd have little balls and they'd have feasts they have wonderful dinners and what have you they they try to put a happy face on a very sad situation that's how you confront like I said John some of the illnesses and challenges of life by by doing these things. Don't give in. That's an interesting point. They didn't give in to the sufferings. There weren't suicides.

When people going out and taking their lives, what have they, they're going to confront it and they're going to move forward. They're not giving up. One thing I'd like to ask you about Dr. Bennett is versus 34, 35, 36 talks about the United States of America rejecting the church and killing the prophets, right, right there, Hyram and Joseph. Yeah, verse 34. Those of us who are Latter-day Saints in the US, we are a very patriotic people.

Yet, what is happening here? What's the dynamics here of, we've been rejected by the United States. And when do we, even with the Mormon battalion, why do we, even seek to become a state when we get out to Utah? We're seeking again to become a state. What's the dynamic there?

How do we don't hate the United States, but yet we are leaving the country? I don't think maybe all of our listeners, I don't think I understand it entirely, that we are fleeing the US. Yeah, maybe it doesn't look like it today because we see the map of the US today, but a map of the US then, we're leaving the country. And how does Brigham and the leadership feel about the United States? We did not go west under the United States flag. There's no question about that. We went under the ensign of the nations.

And at the end of liberty it was really a white flag. Most of us with some very important exceptions from England and from Canada, the Saints were loyal American citizens. And this whole idea of having to leave the United States was a tug of war with them. I mean, we love America. We believe that this is constitutionally inspired and what have you. But here we go, because we, as you know, it received revelations earlier about the Constitution, the United States being divinely inspired. But you've got to plumb the depths of their herd. Hank, I think to understand what they're saying here. We're dying because we've been driven

out of the United States. We're dying because they never lifted a finger in our defense. And it's this great angst. And it's being expressed in a way here that perhaps we should give them a little bit of slack to understand how much suffering they're going through here. And maybe this is it. This might be, I wouldn't say an exaggeration, but they're really leaving it behind. And we'll leave it to the Lord with the Lord's gonna do with the United States. Some people haven't interpreted this as meaning that the Lord is gonna purge the United States

with the Civil War later on. But I don't think you can argue that, really, very convincingly. I think that they felt that because of this, the Lord will have a statement with the country someday for having allowed his prophets to be killed or what have you and be driven out. I don't think they're praying for America to be punished, but I think they're predicting that something could happen which would be hurtful because they've driven them out just like they drove the children of Israel out of Egypt. Yeah, I've heard that school of thought too. The Lord took the saints and got them out of the way and then the civil war came and they were completely away from all of that. They never wished evil upon America. The Saints weren't vindictive. Yeah, well

they actually sent soldiers to fight, you know, exactly. They would never have done that. They not loved America and to support it. But their primary purpose was not to redeem America. It was to redeem Zion and to find a new state of Zion where the Gospel could flourish, we'll follow that pattern, even if we have to give up 500 men to serve the United States. We will serve the United States. It's render under Caesar the things which are Caesar's, the Mormon battalion, and we'll render under God the things which are gods, which is a redemption of Zion and the finding of a new stake that we can build upon. So we can do both things fine, but I think you're seeing here that there is a prediction,

if not a prophecy, that America may have to pay a price someday for this. I'm so glad you brought that. I love this idea of they never formed a stake there in order quarters. No, we will not form a stake, we will not put down stakes, so to speak, until we arrive. And we don't know where we're going, exactly, but that's not here. But it's not here. When we are there, that's when we start the stake. That's an important point. I'll know the place when I see it. He had a vision of what he needed and what the church needed. He needed a place to put in a million people. We now know that from the Joseph Smith paper is the Council 50 minutes. He said, we need a place that will house accommodate a million people, but which nobody else wanted.

That's the place. That's the place. And did he have a vision exactly? I think you got to be, you got to cut him a little bit of slack. He said, he knew it. He says, I'll know it when I see it. And when he did see it, he said, that's it. Or at least we'll check out a few other places, but that's it. And he was being told, wasn't he told by a few of the explorers out there, the trappers out there that he's not gonna be able to succeed if he goes to the Valley of the Great Salt Lake?

Is that the story that they said, don't go there? Jim Bridger, the old story that I'll give you a thousand dollars for a Bush of corn that you raise We now know that there's more to that story Jim Bridger actually said the valedicell lake if you can irrigate it might prove very very promising for you He was more encouraging than he was discouraging so was Moses Harris and And then he was discouraging. So it was Moses Harris and others of those trappers that they met across the way. The closer they got to the Validus Salt, like the more confirmed they became in the place

that they were going. But once again, this revelation is scarce in terms of geography. But it's loaded with counsel and guidance for how to live. And that's important for us too, I think, is the idea of, Lord might say to us in our own individual lives, don't worry about your destination, worry about the way you live. And I'll guide your destination.

Yeah, what I love about this, and I, sorry for this parallel, but I'm thinking of the war chapters. If they were ever a time where you could try to make an excuse of, well, let's, let's, we got to, we got to put all this religion stuff on the back burner. There's a war going on, you know, but Captain Moroni was always get your spiritual act together first. Then we will make swords and forts and places of resort. Living the gospel is never the back burner issue. Well, we've got other problems. We got to move all these saints west.

No, job one, get your spiritual act together. So you've got this cease to contend, cease drunkenness. If you borrow something, give it back. Speak edifying to each other. I love that it was like, this is always job one. Live the gospel in the midst of whatever problem you have. And speaking as a mission president, some of the missionaries are very, very concerned about where they're going. That becomes, oh, I can hardly wake to open up my envelope to see where I'm going. And

my destination, when really it's far more who you are becoming. Don't worry so much about the place. Worry about which direction you're going in your life. And the place will take care of itself. There's some wonderful overtones that apply to us today. I have two questions for you, Dr. Bennett. One is they're going to go to what they call in verse 10, a stake of Zion.

So it's not going to be the center place. Are they holding on to the idea that one day they will return to Missouri? Good question. Some day we'll go back. It's not we're not moving the center place of Zion. It's still a stake of Zion, meaning the center place is still where it was laid. What do you...

I'd love to be... I'd like to go back to section 124. Verse 2, when the same thing happened when the first came to Na'avu. Do you remember that? You probably know this very well. Verse 2, your prayers are acceptable before me, and an answer to them, I say unto you that you are now called immediately to make a solemn proclamation of my gospel, and of this stake, which I have planted to be a cornerstone of Zion, which shall be polished with this refinement, which is after the similitude of a palace. Now, who wasn't the center stake of Zion? Not like you

say independence was, that that that center place. But here, after all their troubles and Missouri, there's still God's chosen people. There's still Zion and a cornerstone of Zion. And so they recognize that they were still Zion. After all that affliction and all the troubles and the apostacies and everything else, they're still there. They're moving towards Zion. They're still a Zion people. And I think that's what you're seeing here in 136,

which is so comforting to the saints after all of this trial and after Joseph Smith have been killed and everything. Are we still Zion? Are we still the people of God? Do we still have the mission of the Lord and all of this? And I think it's not just a place. It's the kind of people that we are. So we will okay a stake of Zion. And that's what it'll be another cornerstone of Zion,

if you will, just like we're doing today. They're all cornerstones of Zion, maybe not the center place, eventually. But we're still Zion's people. We're still the people of the covenant with that promise. And I know from my research at the States saw that as a message of great comfort to them. You mentioned that they were questioning, why did Joseph die anyway? And the Lord does address that in verse 37 and 38. I brought him forth to do my work. The foundation heated lay and I took him to myself. He sealed his testimony with his blood.

So it kind of answers that concern of why was Joseph allowed to be taken in the first place. So another message of I'm hearing you, right? I know you're concerned. Let me speak to that for a moment. Those verses 37, 38, 39, which foundation he did lay, see that in 38, Joseph Smith, who I did call upon in for 38, which foundation he did lay and was faithful. And I took him to myself, many of Marvel, because of his death. This is the redemption of the Martina This this section is just two days before this revelation Joseph Smith had a dream I mean Brigham Young had a dream of Joseph Smith and Lucy Mac

He had a series of dreams with the prophet Joseph Smith one dream He was asking about how to organize the people in terms of the law of adoption and all the things that they were trying to do at winter quarters. And Joseph Smith said, just keep the commandments and it'll all work out. Remember that? Is that wonderful dream? Not a revelation, but it was a dream vision. Well, here is the redemption of the martyrdom, not that the Lord caused it, not that the mob was of the Lord's doing. I mean, that's ridiculous. But he redeemed it for good.

And I think it's not just Joseph Smith's death here. It's all the sufferings of saints are feeling and all the other deaths that they're going through, the hundreds and hundreds of other deaths, the whole principle of death is being redeemed here. I'll redeem it for your good, if you're faithful. Not just Joseph's, but everybody else's. We're not going to end on a tragedy. We're going to end on a triumph. And this is of amazing We're going to end on a triumph and this is of amazing Comfort to the saints many of whom some thought that Joseph Smith's son should be the next president of church

You know that he was given a great blessing Of the prophet Joseph if he were faithful and remained faithful to the church There could have been every expectation that Joseph Smith's son may have been in the highest leadership of the church just like Hiram's son became the highest leadership in the church and this whole claim that maybe that Maybe Joseph Smith's family should be I think this isn't part of dressing that feeling and sentiment

Joseph has taken he did his work. Now let's move on. The family is not going to come last. Notice this, verse 40, have I not delivered you from your enemies? Isn't that interesting? Only in that I have left a witness of my name. What does that mean? That scripture has been going over and over in my mind. Maybe John and Hank, help me with this. What does that mean? Only in that I have left a witness of my name. What is that?

I think first impression, it reminds me of Book Mormon, Alma, the younger those being delivered from the land of Helum, so forth, and the Lord says, you will stand for witnesses for me hereafter. This is, I have delivered you in, I mean, that, in this alone, maybe, I have left a witness of my name. I see it like a, I wrote my margin before you said this. I remember in my margin, I delivered you from your enemies in the past. I wrote my margin before you said this. I remember in my margin, I delivered you from your enemies in the past.

It made me think of, you all got away from Nauvoo, but I left Carthage there. That's what I think of. Only in that I have left a witness of my name. That reminds me of Carthage Jail. Right, it is still there and it is a witness of the testimony of Joseph Smith. Yeah, I have left a witness back there.

Everyone else was delivered from their enemies, but only two were not Joseph and Hyram, and they are there the witness for my name. And there were two witnesses of that, which would be what, Wildard Richards and John Taylor. Yeah. Somebody commented, I can't remember,

maybe it was on a previous podcast about, you know, the law of witnesses. There's Joseph and Hyrum give their witness and there were two witnesses there in an interesting way kind of fortunate because now we know what happened because John Taylor and Willard Richards were there. And Willard, what was the prophecy Joseph Smith made to Willard Richards that bullets would fly around him? Right. And I heard Brad Wilcox say once he was clearly the largest target in the room.

But he was behind the door, John. He was behind the... Yeah. But the couple of witnesses, that's another, that's a wonderful way to look at that too. But I just think it's so easy to forget the things the Lord has done for us and Sometimes you'll have a scripture like this. Have I not delivered you from your enemies? Oh, yeah, he really has been there in the past for me. Hasn't he? I can't forget that Dr. Bennett, can you walk us through what happens after this revelation? Because we're

not going to, this is, we're not, this is one of these lessons where we're not going to get to go to the next one and say, Hey, what? What happens, you know, before, you know, we'll do a section. Right. We'll do one section 138, but that'll be 19 18. It'll be hard to cover Yeah, you know from from section 136 to section 138, but What happens in As spring comes in winter quarters. I also wanted to ask you and we don't have to leave this and I was just interested in their relationship with the Native Americans Out out there because there are people out there, right? There are groups of Native Americans.

What's the relationship with the saints going to be like there? Well here at Winter Quarters, this was quote, quote, Indian territory and we're amongst the punk and the Omaha and the auto Indians who are being pushed up against by the eastern tribes that are being pushed out of the're right in the middle of intertribal warfare and the two big tribes that we were most fearful of were the Pani which are just west of here and of course the Lakota suit thousands of warriors and the great plains of the Dakotas and they were warring with the Pani and the Panka and we were right in the middle of a very, very difficult inter-tribal warfare situation that took all the skill in the world to build and negotiate harmony amongst the tribes. Our Brigham Young formulae, it's a policy of neutrality, but friendship, which worked out very well of helping them. We took many of the tribal leaders and would have you who were wounded in battle and we nursed them and helped them back. Without

taking sides one way or the other, it was a very very delicate negotiation with the American Indian. But we looked upon them as being of the House of Israel. It's a whole interesting story that we had time to go into when they go west, they're going to go right through the Pony Indian villages because they chose to go on the north side of the Platte River, not on the south side, which was the California Trail. So they go deliberately right through the heart of Pony territory, knowing that that's a risk of unprecedented proportions to do that. But the Pawnee were so surprised.

Because we went through the middle of their villages that they started backed off and they looked upon Asus fellow refugees being driven out of the United States. We had a compatibility with some of their thinking. And so that's another story for another day about how we got along with the Native American folks. Isn't there a famous, bring-in young statement that's better to feed them than fight them or change things?

His idea was to befriend them, but don't take sides. So what happens in January then? The revelation comes and when do they prepare to head further west? Speaking of that verse, only in that I have left a witness for my name. This is what Stephen Harper said in his book. I think Hank was on the right track here. Stephen Harper said, from the Lord's vantage point, allowing Joseph to die as a testator, left an enduring witness of his name, his capitalized God's name,

even as it delivered the saints, including Joseph from their enemies. So I think Hank, you are on the right track there. I have left a witness of my name. I left Joseph Smith and Carthage. I like that. There's another way of looking at that. Could I just expound upon that? Yeah. Bring a young himself was a witness as with the 12th of the Restoration. Now, notice the very next verse. Now therefore, Harkin. In other words, now listen to what I'm going to say. Listen up carefully.

OE people of my church, Andy elders, listen. Notice that a second time. Listen together. And what is the message? You have received my kingdom. Well, I know what this, how the saints interpreted that because I've studied their diaries and their letters. What that meant was the keys of the kingdom are in your wagon. They're in your cabins right there in one or quarters. They were not taken from the earth, despite all the problems and all the sufferings and all the afflictions and some of your disobediences and everything else, the kingdom is still upon the earth and it's in the 12th. It's not in Sydney, Rigdon. It's not in Jimmy's straying. It's not in the Smith family. Bless their souls. Hope everything works out for them. It's you have received my kingdom. What a statement that is it goes right back to verse

Three if you want to take a look at it. It's verse three and verse 30 Three and 41 go together like bookends Remember this about let the companies be organized with captains of hundreds hundreds, 50s, 10s with the president, council, et cetera. Under the direction of the 12 apostles, there's not even a president of church at this moment. Who's in charge of the church? Who has the keys? You have the kingdom in the 12 apostles.

They have the right to lead this church when the president of the church dies. When Joseph Smith was slain, the church didn't lose the keys. You are the witness. You have the keys and you're going to go west under the direction of the twelve or you don't go at all. They're in your wagon. If I can put it that way. And I tell you, when this was read for a sustaining vote, and this revelation was read by into all the congregations of the saints here in the Missouri River Valley, in January, the next two weeks. The outpouring of support for this amongst the saints was like it, it was like a like a sun beam coming through a dark wintery cloud. It was a it was that measure of hope. You mean to tell me that we're still God's people that This is still the kingdom of God upon the earth.

Have we suffered in vain? Has it been all for not? And this message is a tremendous hope for the Church. It really brought the Church into the sunshine of a new day from its darkest moment in the history of the church. And it has enormous significance to having a witness today in a living prophet. I just love that very listen, Harkin, listen, you have received my kingdom. You have received my kingdom. That is, I'm so glad you covered that. Yeah, with so many splinters or potential for splintering off or diffusing,

as you've said, this is a we thing, and you are the ones. You have the keys. The keys are with you. I'm so glad you said that, that versus... So John, and answer to your question, what happens next? The Vanguard Company of the 12, begin leaving here, what, the 16th of April, actually from the Elkhorn, which is the rendezvous spot, about 20 miles west of here. And the Vanguard Company of the 12, go west, you know, the 148 men, two women and three

children, and they find the place. Go west, you know the 148 men two women three children um And they find the place but not well known history of the church is that under the direction of these captains of 10s and 50s and fannies would have you 1400 others in what they called the big camp or the emigration camp leave here in the in in June or May, excuse me, in two large groups, 700 in each, to follow the the Vanguard company and get this Vanguard company hasn't even found the valley yet. And here comes 1400 men, women and children, families, many of the Mormon battalion people because Brigham Young didn't want the Mormon battalion guys to have to walk all the way

back to winter quarters to find their wives and kids. And they're going out with the expectations. They're going to find the place. Can you believe that? And had that not that Vanguard company found the place? They would have starved the death. they would have starved the death, they would have starved the death out there. You talk about faith, but they did find the place and Brigham Young comes all the way back

here in August and September of 47, all the way back by horseback and a few of the 12 and it's going to be back here at Winterquarters, actually over in Canesville, at the Canesville Log Tabernacle, over there in Council Bus today, where Brigham Young is going to be sustained as the President of the Church, not in Salt Lake, but here, by the membership of the Church, because he wants to give the evidence that we restore it. The church is moving on, we're reorganizing the first presidency. Come on West. So this is what's going to happen. And then he's, I think he's, yes, he's made a president, the president of the church on the 27th of December 1847, 11 months after this revelation. And he himself is almost not going to make it.

He got so sick he almost died of a Rocky Mountain spotted fever as they're coming into the valley. That would have been an interesting scenario, I had a big young guy. But his life was preserved. You know there's a lot of some of the scholars are saying, well, did he say this is a place? Is this the right place? Did he ever say something like that? I don't know. This is the man, though.

This is the one the Lord called. That's as critical as anything. And you have the keys. Listen. You have received my kingdom. And notice bringing me on his note saying, well, it's me, I'm the guy, I should be the next leader. I'm the one.

No, you have received my kingdom. So those are important things to remember. Dr. Bennett, you are just an absolutely incredible mind and person and I know your wife is the same, an incredible mind and incredible person. I think our listeners would love to hear a little bit of your journey from kind of the beginnings of how you found this love for the history of the church

up until the present time, where now you're serving as a mission president in one of the sites. Take us through that journey, if you would. When I was ten years of age, my parents, who joined the church in Canada, in eastern Canada, in Ontario, in 1952, but when I was ten years of age, we took the first of what would be several trips along the Mormon Trail, from Palmyra, even from Vermont, through all these places. I can remember coming here to Winter Quarters, here in Omaha, when I was 10 years old, and

going into the Memorial, the pioneer memorial cemetery and seeing air-battered fair banks as marvelous monuments and something tugged at my heart then even though i was rather i get a little bored when everybody was crying and everything else and and having spiritual experiences i was just a kid but i I could sense then there was something going on here and that this was beyond my little scope of understanding. And a great warmth enveloped and gained an affinity for the great message of the gospel and the pioneers. Now I don't have any Latter-day Saint Pioneer background. The folks that come here, many of them are coming here because they're related to wonderful pioneers and that's marvelous. I just envy many of them for that. My pioneers came over from England to Canada. It's a whole different story. But

I gain a great love for the faith of the pioneers. You don't have to be a descendant of pioneers to know of the truth of the gospel. There's no historical pedigree that makes one, the Latter-day Saint Saint more devoted or not. It's something far deeper than that. And I learned that the pioneer Exodus is for everyone in this church, whether they're in Japan or in South America, whatever it is.

This is a story of the ages. This is a story for all people. And it's a, it brings us all together in the same tabernacle of faith. And I use that word tabernacle deliberately because they built their first tabernacle here in in 1847, we can all go into that. And it's been one, I've had the great privilege of working under some of the greatest historians of the church, Leonard Erington, who was church historian for many, for quite some time, a great basing kingdom, who was, in my opinion, one of the greatest men I ever knew. It's not my opinion.

It's one of the greatest men I ever knew, one of the greatest writers in the Church history, Marvin Hill, another great scholar in the history of the Church, and so many others I've been blessed with. My patriarchal blessing gave me indications that records will be made available to you, that haven't been made available to others. And remember that when I was 14 years old from Elder G Smith, he was patriarch.

And so it's one little thing after another and I've had the chance to study my entire life in the history of the church and all its ups and downs and let's face it. Some people, how could that have happened in the history of the church? How did all the country ever leave the Church? Or what's all this about this or that? Some people have made shipwreck of their lives in the history of the Church. That's not easy to read. We just talked about George Miller breaking with Brigham Young, a associate presenting bishop, breaking with the President Corps in the 12. How could that be? Well, people have their agency. They can choose.

You got to allow for agency in the history of the church to understand why people do what they do and why they didn't do what they should have done. But in all of this, in all my studies, I keep going back to what Helen Marr Kimball Whitney said. She was the daughter of hebris C. Kimball. But in all of their ups and downs, this has been a marvel. The history of the church is a marvel to those who openly study it. And you got to study it enough to know not just the superficialities of the history of the church, not just one inch This it's it's deeper than the ocean and the more I study it the more beautiful it becomes

But the hand of the Lord is in all of this just as he was here Now how did those pioneers ever do this? Why didn't they mutiny? Why didn't this thing go off the rails? Because of the individual testimony of the saints. And I just happen to have that simple testimony, born by the spirit of the Lord that this is the church that chooses Christ as the kingdom of God upon the earth. I don't have all the answers to church history, but you know what? I've sometimes prayed about a question in church history and then I've gone on four or five months later thinking about something else and then the Lord gives me the answer somehow. I'm reading something somewhere and it's almost as it's been a

over and over again a beautiful manifestation of the Spirit of the Lord. Despite the weaknesses of men and women in our history, despite the problems that we sometimes have made mistakes. Can you can you allow for that? Can you allow for the profits to make mistakes? Maybe even the churches made a mistake or two. Still divine kingdom upon the earth. We learned, just like we learned from crossing Iowa, we better organize ourselves better to get the rest of the way. We made some mistakes here, guys. Let's move on. And I've been able to cut slack for some of those things and I recognize the longer I get, but someone better cut some slack for me, I'll tell you, because I'm

certainly an imperfect soul. And if you're willing to accept a church with all of its members imperfections, including your own, church history is yourself, you know. You got to, if you can forgive others and yourself, then maybe you can understand church history. But the Lord, it's a miracle. It's a miracle that how this church has survived and continues to go forward. And I just have that sweet abiding testimony that's been confirmed through my studying of the scriptures. I'd like to study church history with one hand in the Book of Mormon and the Bible in the other hand, because they speak to one another.

If you have questions about church history, the answer is maybe in the scriptures rather than church history. You read church history through the scriptures, just like we've been doing here. Then it becomes clear. It's not an academic exercise in the final analysis. It's a it's a revelation of truth. That's how I continue to do what I'm doing. I haven't

been teaching a lie in my in my career. It hasn't been for an academic, let's get, make some money here. It's been a, it's been a commission. So, does that make sense? Absolutely. Wonderful. Absolutely. Wonderful. John, what a day. What a great day. Section 136. Great day section one thirty section one thirty six now. Yeah one thirty six stands out for me Just like these other sections that we've been through as just a new It stands out to me is the sunshine of a new day. Oh, I love it I love the things you've emphasized you have improved my doctrine and covenants Study because I wrote all these things in the margins. I when you said Helen Mark Kimball Whitney I want to share it with our listeners what she said

verbatim our history is a wonder and a marvel to those who have taken the trouble to review it in all its ups and downs God has brought us deliverance every time, and it is our wish and purpose to trust him still. We want to thank you, Dr. Richard Bennett, president of the, what's the official title president? Morment trail center here at Winnecorders. Thank you so much for being with us today. Yeah, we hope that Yeah, we don't want everyone to go tomorrow Because they might overwhelm Thank you all for listening. Thank you for for taking your time to be with us. We're grateful for your support. We can't do this without our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Swanson.

Or we couldn't do it without our production crew. We have Will Stouten, Kyle Nelson, Lisa Spice, Jamie Nielsen, David Perry. We love you. And we hope all of you will join us on our next episode of Follow Him. you