Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 19 Part 2 • Andy Horton • March 3 - 9 • Come, Follow Me

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Brother Andy Horton continues to explore the commandments given to Martin Harris in Doctrine and Covenants 19. He also explores how Jesus can change suffering and pain into joy.FREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTIMECODE00:00 - Part 2 -  Brother Andy Horton00:16 D&C 19:16 - Experience the love of God03:10 What do others believe about Luke 22:4406:07 D&C 19:16 - Why does Jesus suffer?07:50 Taking your father for a milkshake12:20 D&C 19:15 - Pressing olives15:11 D&C 19:19-20 - Finishing preparations 17:34 A reconversion story prepared but unshared22:01 D&C 19:21-23 - A great pattern for happy living25:15 Let God prevail28:35 Section 19 as missionary section32:56 Pray vocally and in private34:48 Martin mortgages his farm37:59 So many tenets42:16 D&C 19:23 - A missionary returns to her mission46:16 D&C 19:38 - Being paralyzed by fear50:25 God takes suffering and lose and turns it into joy56:06 Joseph Smith is a prophet58:38 Brother Andy Horton shares his testimony of Jesus Christ and his prophet, Joseph01:06:48  End of Part II -  Brother Andy Horton Thanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsAmelia Kabwika : Portuguese TranscriptsHeather Barlow: Communications Director"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Keep listening for part two with Andy Horton, Doctrine and Covenants, section 19. It's not very long Andy, he seems to say, look, we give you a tiny little description and then he moves on in verse 19, nevertheless. We have to read it. Let's start in 16, read for a minute. He says, for behold, I, God, have suffered these things. In other words, Martin, I've already felt what I'm trying to encourage you to avoid feeling. You're going to feel it in a little degree. I felt it to an extreme infinite degree. I have suffered these things for all that they might not suffer. You might not suffer if you would repent. I don't know if there's any of our listeners out there that are right on the edge of, should I go see my bishop? It sounds terrifying. My bishop is scary.

I just don't know if I can do this. I would say, wow, go experience the love of your heavenly father and his son. Go find out what happens when you trust God. For if they would not repent, they must suffer even as I, which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain and to bleed at every pore and to suffer both body and spirit, and would that I might not drink the bitter cup and shrink. Love this verse. I think there's only three places in Scripture which talks about bleeding

from every pore. Some might think it's metaphorical. I know it's mentioned in Luke 22, Mosiah 3-7, and then right here in Doctrine and Covenants. Now I want to look specifically at the one in Luke. Joseph makes a change here that changes something for me. This says in verse 44, this is Luke 22, 44, being in agony, he prayed more earnestly and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. In the Joseph Smith translation, down in the footnotes, you find out that Joseph changes the word sweat from a noun to a verb.

In the original it says, his sweat was as it were, that's a noun, he changes it to a verb. So now it would read, and he sweat as it were great drops of blood. Why would it be significant that we change that from a noun to a verb? That changes things drastically for me because it turns it into an action. It turns it into work. He's sweating blood because he's doing the work of salvation. Work for the dead, work for the living, work for all the souls of mankind.

It becomes eternal work, which completely changes Moses 1 39 for me. Behold, this is my work and my glory. That is work and glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Do either of you know David Durphy? Do you you know that name? Remember brother Durfee? Yeah. Institute director. Yeah. Fantastic individual. I miss him. He's retired. He taught me a lot. In fact, he helped Elder Anderson write this book, Divine Gift of Forgiveness. I had some input on that. He shared an experience a few years ago with our faculty.

He used to live out in Minnesota where he taught. One summer, he got thinking about Luke 22, 44, and he wondered, I wonder what other churches believe about this. Do they believe this is literal? Imagine a summer where we have a little more time in the summer as seminary and institute teachers to study and to sharpen our axes, if you will. Don't take that wrong, we don't chop our students, but sharpen our skills and become better teachers. Well, he's pondering the atonement one day of Jesus Christ and he decides to call 34 different Christian churches in the area. And to ask them, how do you teach this? How do you understand what is happening in Luke 22, 44? Didn't really

give a lot of background on what he was doing, but he asked them. Of those 34 churches, 32 believe that he was perspiring and sweating and thinking about the great drops of blood he would shed on the cross. So he's thinking about it. Two, so that's 32, there's only two left, 32 other churches said there might have been a little blood in his sweat and that's it. What do we teach? I don't know how you have taught this. I've always believed it was literal. We have three prophetic sources here that teach it. I do know there's a condition, I think it's pronounced hematidrosis. I have a zoology degree, I should know how to pronounce that word. But I know that under extreme pressure capillaries burst, that blood from those capillaries mixes

with the sweat and it comes out of the pores. I think that's called hematidrosis. That would make, if you follow the schedule that night when he is arrested, he has come from Gethsemane where he literally bled from every pore, that would cause bruising all throughout his body. Then he's arrested. His body would be sore enough that I imagine even a kiss of

betrayal would be painful. At least, at the very least, the flogging he received 39 times, having the cross placed on his back, I think would cause a sensation, unforgettable, of pain. We've all come from working out a couple days later where our muscles are sore, or I think of a sunburn, where, please don't touch me, painful, and where his body was literally pressed like olives are pressed enough to cause that bleeding. But that was work. He worked for my salvation.

He worked for yours. That changes me to read that verse to know that I can receive forgiveness because he worked very hard to make it possible. It's a beautiful scripture. I've always loved verse 16, for behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, comma, and then this phrase, that they might not suffer. What was the motivation behind all of this? Was it, well, I said I would do this. This is what I was called to do? No, it was I would prefer to suffer myself than to see you suffer. That's got love written all over it.

I have suffered these things for all that they might not suffer if they would repent. What an invitation there that's so loving. In fact, it reminds me, What an invitation there that's so loving. In fact, it reminds me, remember Elder Maxwell used to read this verse a lot in general conference for Sni fi 19.9. And the world because of their iniquity shall judge him to be a thing of not, wherefore they scourge him and he suffereth it. And they smite him and he suffereth it. Yea, they spit upon him and he suffereth it because just what we said his duty is God no because of his loving kindness and his long suffering towards the children of men. I see their love and patience. I see there in section 19 verse 16

I would prefer to suffer than to see you suffer. So I've suffered these things for all that they might not suffer if they would repent. I thought I might share a story here just that I've been thinking of. Years and years ago I was a young seminary teacher. I had a young man's day after class. He was frustrated, kept looking down and he'd want to start to tell me something and he'd look away and I said, what's going on? Name's Trevor. And he said, I'm struggling with a pornography problem and I just don't know what to do. And I said, well, you're Bishop, you're parents.

And it was interesting. He said, oh, I think I could tell my bishop. Is he going to make me tell my parents? And I said, that's interesting. Usually it's maybe reverse. I could talk to my parents, but am I going to have to talk to the bishop? It was backwards for him. And I said, Oh, your parents, they're going to be okay. And he said, No, no, you don't understand. My father has a really high expectations. I am the oldest child. We don't make mistakes in our family. He was really struggling with this idea. And you know, I hope I was being led by the Holy Ghost. I had an idea. I think we had talked one or two times. I said, do

something for me. When you get home from school, I want you to go find your dad and say, dad, do you want to go get a milkshake? You buy. He said, me? I have to buy. And I said, yeah, you're going to buy the milkshake. And when you're there with your milkshake, just you and your dad, ask him if he's ever had to see the bishop. And then just let the conversation go from there. I think that was like a Thursday. He came back on the Monday and he just looks like he had a weight off his shoulders. I said, what happened? It was pretty funny.

He said, I got home and my dad was in the garage and I didn't know really what to say. He said, dad, you wanna go get a milkshake, right? Really fast. And his dad turned and said, what? And he said, do you wanna go get a milkshake right really fast and his dad turned and said what and he said do you want to go get a milkshake and his dad said right now he's yes why he's like dad do you want to go get a milkshake and he said his dad kind of looked at him and said, I guess. Sure.

He said, my dad poked his head inside the house for the garage. And he said, honey, Trevor's being weird. We're going to go get a milkshake. He said, so we went to this little fast food place and we sat down with our milkshake and he said, I'm just staring straight down at my milkshake right just eating my milkshake and he said my dad's just staring at me across the table he hasn't touched his milkshake what is going on and then he said it was just so sweet this young man he's probably I think he's a junior in high school he just started to cry over this milkshake right up here. His dad is going, this kid. Bad milkshake. Yeah, he lost his milkshake. He said,

Dad, have you ever had to go talk to the bishop? And his dad said, yeah, yeah, why? Why'd he ask? And he just, he said, he kept his head down. He said, Dad, I think I need to go talk to the bishop. And he said, I just sat there, Brother Smith, like, oh no, here it comes. He's going to be so mad at me. And he said, I'm just staring down. And all of a sudden I felt this big hand reach over the table and just rub my shoulder. And he said, it's going to be okay. Hey, it's going to be okay. Hey, hey, I'm with you. And he said, we sat there and we talked for a good two hours.

You know, I told him what was going on and he cried with me and he said, my dad was mad, but he wasn't mad at me. He was mad at himself. He's mad himself. He said, I should have been taking better care of you. I should have been watching out for you you And they went and saw the bishop together It was just a beautiful thing and I think of that here Andy that the Lord doesn't say I want you to suffer I Want you to get out of this? What did you say he he suffered so I could repent

Yeah, they might not suffer. He chose suffering for us Your story shed the new light on verse 15 too about anger again, because the Father, it sounds like he was mad at himself, he was angry with himself. Why didn't I do more? And heaven knows the Lord's going to do everything he can to help us take advantage of his suffering. He's going to say everything he can to motivate us and get us to partake of that heavenly gift to the extent that he will bleed from every poor. I did my master's project on the olive tree, the olive, olive oil. First of all, I didn't know that olives when you pick them off the tree, they're bitter, they're nasty. And when they harvest them, they put them in these things called

strong bags. They layer them and then they sprinkle them with salt and with vinegar. And I guess the vinegar purges the bitterness out of the olive. Then they put another bag on top, more olives, more salt, more vinegar, and they'll do like 12 or 15 layers of olives, and then they'll put them in the press. And under extreme pressure, of course, the olive oil is harvested under the weight, extreme pressure. And they either put them in the kind where you turn the winch, you put a quarter in the donkey and it walks around for hours and makes all the oil get squished out. And I guess it comes out blood red when it comes out initially, we've been taught.

I was thinking about when the Savior was on the cross and they offered him vinegar. And he was offered vinegar twice. The first time he said no, because it is a natural sedative and he was, I believe, trying to avoid sedation of any kind because he needed to feel. And then finally the second time they offer him the vinegar and it was soon after that he partook and he soon gave up the ghost. And I've thought about that, how vinegar is used to purge bitterness. And there he is on the cross, and he just came from the garden, and he's suffering. The only bitterness he might be feeling is the bitterness of our sins, and yet he was given vinegar. And I wonder if there's a symbolism

there about having his bitterness, our bitterness purged through repentance. He did that for us. It can become sweet. Yeah, it can become sweet, useful. That olive oil, once it's purged, it becomes very useful. Goodness, using dressings and medicines and all sorts of things, but it's a beautiful visual. That is. Well, we can't jump over verse 19. Nevertheless, glory be to the father.

And I partook and finished my preparations under the children of men. That is an amazing verse that I had always looked past. But now something has been prepared, an avenue, a resource, the greatest gift in the world we now have access to. He is prepared that next time I make a mistake, which is daily, he is now prepared to save me from myself. I am ready to accept your pleadings and be your mediator because of what I have gone through and because of the work I just did I understand your struggleings and will have the ability to strengthen you and like the Book of Mormon says, snatch you up from sin.

Beautiful visual and if you go down to verse 20, so again, he says, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power, and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken of and which I've suffered, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my spirit. I don't know about you, but I have noticed over the years, as I've gotten older, I've noticed the times when I feel the withdrawal of the spirit the most is when I've said something to my wife or one of my kids or even in a class, when I've said something that was off. It came

out wrong, it was a little too aggressive, it was a little too ornery, and bless my wife, she's actually very hopeful. Tell me, why are you being fussy? Why are you being fussy to me? Sometimes I don't realize I'm being fussy, and when she points out, I'm like, oh, goodness, you're right, I am being fussy.

I must either be hungry or angry or hungry. But those are the most acute moments when I notice a decrease in the spirit is when I have Said something to someone that was not kind or done something I'll give an example. This was hard. This is one of my fears when I was called a stake president that I would ruin the church This was hard. This was one of my fears when I was called the state president that I would ruin the church. It's actually prideful because I don't have the authority to ruin the church, but your thoughts go there.

No unhollowed hand, right? That's right. We had our interviews on Wednesday nights. I had a lady come in who had just come back into the church and she told me her reconversion story is beautiful, which makes the story even worse. I said, that's beautiful. What you've been through, I appreciate your faith, your testimony. How would you like to share that in state conference in a month, month and a half? And of course, that's overwhelming to anyone to be asked to speak in state conference. But

she said, yeah, yeah, I could do that. I said, just briefly, you know, 10 minutes, five or 10 minutes, share what you just shared with me. Time went by, we planned our state conference. We had the sessions on Saturday. We had our session on Sunday. And at the end of the Sunday session, her Bishop came up to me and he said, president, great conference. What happened with Amy?

And he said, President, great conference. What happened with Amy? He goes, yeah, she was up on the stand and ready to speak, but she never spoke. And my stomach fell out from under me. I remember I looked down at the chairs where she would have been and they're empty now. Oh no, I didn't add it to our agenda. Oh no, I am the worst person. I started to feel what I feel is kind of described here, suffering. I felt the spirit just jabbing me. You've got to take care of this. So I tried to get hold of her all day on Sunday. I couldn't find her, couldn't find her, which made it even worse to be honest.

The next morning was Monday. I got my counselor to go with me. He's a big guy. He was my bodyguard. We knocked on the door and we had the biggest, most beautiful bouquet of flowers with us. We knocked on the door. She was a single mom. She opened the door and she smiled when she opened the door, which was more than I deserved. I said, hi, how are you? And she smiled again and I said, I got a little emotional. I still do when I tell the story.

I owe you an apology. I just stumbled through my words, but in the end I said, I didn't get you on the agenda and I am so sorry that you didn't get to speak and testify. Before I tell you how she responded, I believe that there is a power in the phrase, I'm sorry. I believe that when you speak it sincerely, it invites the power of Jesus Christ into the relationship. And I felt it. I said, I'm sorry.

I am so sorry. And she said so graciously, she said, President Horton, I never needed to give the talk. I just needed to prepare it. It was so kind and she forgave me and she didn't have to. I have felt that what Martin felt in the smallest we all have when you lose the spirit a little for something you did. It's very motivational. How grateful I am that I have the

choice to repent. I could go apologize to her and fix it, or I could continue to suffer. And it was a very clear choice that day for me. It's an exciting thing in repentance that we can do that, that we have that out. One time when I was a bishop, I had one student graduating from seminary. The seminary graduation was held at the stake center. It was on my calendar. I just plain forgot. I got online, I bought her a hoodie from the university she was going to go to and some swag. They were gracious and it was so,

I wasn't just the worst. Are we thinking that the Lord's reminding Martin of what he felt when he lost them or when the manuscript was stolen or lost? I think so. That's what we think in verse 20. You felt this before, Martin. Oh, when I withdrew my spirit. That's so interesting. And he said, remember how much pain you were in? And that was the smallest degree I could give you. You got a taste, a tiny taste of this. Yeah. And usually that's enough. I don't like to taste that, especially when with situations with my wife and people you live with, there's a tension in the air and it's not comfortable. And I have a hard time going to work and teaching if there's tension there.

It's kind of like when you feel like Joseph couldn't translate. Can't translate Joseph? Yeah. Sorry about what I said. Got to fix something first. Beautiful verses. Well, we get into verse 21, 22 and 23. 22, I think the Savior is saying, some of these things I've just taught, these aren't for everyone. As you go preach the Gospel,

verse 21 says, preach nothing but repentance, not but repentance. Show not these things unto the world until it's wisdom in me, for they cannot bear meat now. Give them some chocolate milk, give them the sweetness of the gospel of repentance. But you don't need to go preach hell, fire, and damnation to them right now unless it's necessary. They must not know these things lest they perish. Learn of me. I think verse 23 could be a summary of the whole section

and a great pattern for happy living. Learn of me. Listen to my words. Walk in the meekness of my spirit. Those are three recipe items to have a peaceful life. That's beautiful. What a great verse. This was a youth theme a few years ago. I just love the me, my, my, me in there when we think of Martin's backstory. Should I mortgage my farm? Can I take the characters and find out if they're really ancient? Can I borrow the 116 pages and show Lucy and her friends? I'm not sure of the timing of all of these, but it's as if the Lord's saying,

Martin, keep it right here. You guys both have seen the gesture before where you pointed your eyes and then you pointed everybody out there. As if to say, I've got eyes on you. And Hank, this never happens to you and Andy, this never happens to you. And Hank, this never happens to you and Andy, this never happens to you. But my students get bored and I have to do the opposite and go, Hey, you guys, look at me. And I feel like if there were a verse of scripture to match that gesture, there it is, where the Lord's saying, Martin, you're looking at all the wrong stuff. You're listening to all the wrong people and you're looking for peace in all the wrong places, Martin keep it right here.

When the Lord says you'll have peace in me, he's also saying you won't find peace anywhere else. And you won't find peace by listening to anybody else. You're going to find it right here. We sing the song, Where Can I Turn for Peace? We know the answer, but we still need the reminder, don't we? We sure do. This is the place where peace is found. Learn of me, listen to my words, and one more thing, it always reminds me of Peter's walking on water story of Peter, keep it right here. As soon as you look at the wind and the waves, and there's a lot of winds and waves these

days, every issue you can imagine. This reminds us, no, keep your eyes on Christ. Yeah. You remind me of President Nelson. Gosh, I've never heard that before. That's about the best thing I've ever heard in my life. Yeah, you remind me of the prophet. When he says, I mean, think of some of his things he's taught us about letting God prevail. Let him be in the forefront of your mind. Think celestial. And one of the things the book of Revelation talks about is having the name of the Father printed in your forehead. I have a bigger forehead than most, mine's all forehead, but your forehead is actually, we usually think it's right here, but it's actually right between your eyes. And that is because that's what you focus on. Both eyes, it takes both eyes to focus,

get depth perception. So I love this visual of focus on what matters. There's a lady, used to be in my ward, Sister Quinn, she taught this so well. My glasses you can't tell, but the top is for distance and the bottom has bifocals for reading. I think it is so easy in mortality, this is happening to Martin right now, it's so easy to only focus on what's right in front of us. The farm, my wife, what the printers are saying, the terror that could happen if I go through with this instead of taking the long view which so so many prophets have spoken of what the prophet has said. Think celestial, think way out there.

Keep your eye on me. Don't look at the wind. Don't get distracted. So I love that visual, John. That is powerful. Good reminder. Learn, listen, walk. I have a daughter serving in California in the Roseville, California mission.

She was assigned to Lima, Peru, but had some health challenges. And so now she's going to be wrapping up her mission here in like 25 days, but who's counting? 35, 35 days. No one's counting at all. This was back in April when she sent us this letter. It's pretty simple, but listen to the changes that are going on in her life as she teaches and becomes a greater disciple. She says, it's days like Thursday that make me love being a missionary. We were sitting on the church steps in the rain teaching a complete stranger. I mean,

that's miraculous right there. In a language I knew nothing about just nine months ago. That's a change. She's talking to a stranger in the rain on the steps in a language she didn't know just a year ago. While drinking some juice he brought us from the gas station. So sketchy juice. Seriously, it's the best thing ever.

She goes on and she says, being a missionary teaches you how to love. Never in my life would I even notice if a non-member showed up at church, but now it's all I pray and think about leading up to Sunday. Nothing brings more joy than seeing others grow closer to Jesus Christ. So what is it that happened that brought this girl to think of things like, did this person show up at church when she wasn't thinking about that two years ago? And now he says, it's all I pray about and think about leading up to Sunday. And her letters often have somewhere at the beginning, I remember one recently, we had

10 people show up at church Sunday. She was static. It's crazy what the Savior can do when we turn to him and try to live like him. Pretty neat, pretty neat to see. You wouldn't see section 19 as a missionary section, but it really can be in a way if you say the farm is like the life we don't want to leave. To head out in the mission field, I have a son Mason who is filling out papers and getting ready to go. And you can kind of see that ache of, I like my family. I like family vacations. I like my mother. I hope he likes his father. I like my siblings. I don't know if I want to give this up. I don't know if I want to walk away from this for a while.

And section 19 kind of answers that, doesn't it? It really does. I mean, 21 says, I command you to preach not but repentance. In other words, keep it simple. Go preach the doctrine of Christ. Don't complicate it any more than that. And hand over the farm. Hand over your life to me. I will take care of it. I promise you will have peace in me. Yeah. And maybe since it's on my mind, Andy, both of you have been parents of

missionaries. Maybe the farm for some parents is that child where the Lord says, hand them over to me, hand that missionary over to me. Somewhere easier to drop off than others. Drop off what, John? Yeah, you take them, they're your problem now. Look at 25, that really goes well with what you're talking about. Hank, he says, I command thee that thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife nor seek thy neighbor's life. And again, I command thee, thou shalt not covet thine own property.

I feel in that sentence, thine own property, because how much of Martin's farm really is Martin's? He only has it because the Lord allotted it to him. I don't think the Lord talks in sarcastic tones. If I had spoken that being myself and said, Don't covet thine own property. It really isn't yours to begin with. So give it up. 25 is interesting. I wonder if Martin's going, now hold on. Whoa, I haven't been chasing women. Don't covet thy neighbor's wife. But I have, I wondered

about this this morning. I thought, why did the Lord tell him that? Well, if Lucy's coming down on him hard, there's a good chance he had thoughts like, man, why couldn't I have married someone that would make this easier for me? Right. yeah. Why couldn't I have married farmer Larry's wife over there who lets him do whatever he wants? So you have to wonder what kind of thoughts provoked this from the Lord. Yeah, that's interesting. Andy, I love where you're going with this.

You said earlier, back when we were getting started, look, if it weren't for me, the Lord says, you wouldn't have this farm to give up. We could say that same thing for everything we are not wanting to give up. Lord's saying, I gave it to you for this purpose. Think about my son or any of your children or any listener out there who child decided to go on a mission or a senior couple that decided to go on a mission and they give up a lot and the Lord might be saying what you just said your stuff actually I gave that to you for this purpose so you could give it up

for me I like how you said that. Don't covet your property, yours. Lord's probably chuckling, your property, huh? That's funny. That is my dirt. I gave it to you to take care of while you're on the earth. I'm just asking for my own thing back. That's all. I wonder what farm is there that's holding me back? What's keeping me from handing over my heart to the Lord completely? There's stuff. We can all think of stuff. Probably the ones that are hardest to give up are the ones we don't want to admit that

it's holding us back. 26 wraps up, impart it freely to the printing of the Book of Mormon, which contains the truth and the Word of God, which is my word to the Gentile. Soon it may go to the Jew of whom the Lamanites are remnant, that they may believe the gospel and look not for a Messiah to come who has already come. Talk about an important sentence right there, because that's one of the very purposes of the Book of Mormon right there, which Martin probably doesn't even know. And again, I command thee that thou shalt pray vocally as well as in thy heart, yea,

before the world, as well as in secret, public, as well as in private. And thou shalt declare glad tidings, yea, publish it upon the mountains and upon every high place and among every people that thou shalt be permitted to see." And then this potent verse, thou shalt do it with all humility, trusting in me, reviling not against revilers. I've wondered this morning, what are the revilers? Well, you've got these print shops that have told him that he's insane to even go through with this.

He's going to give up the farm. His wife is reviling against him, probably threatening all sorts of things. He's going through it. I love how the very next thing that the Savior shifts into the doctrine of Christ, of the tenets, thou shalt not talk. This becomes a missionary scripture again. shalt declare repentance Faith on the Savior remission of sins by baptism by fire even the Holy Ghost and this is the last Commandment which I shall give unto you concerning this matter For this shall suffice for thy daily walk even unto the end of thy life. That is just powerful How grateful I am that the Savior is right there behind us Misery thou shalt receive if thou wilt slight these councils How powerful, how grateful I am that the Savior is right there behind us.

Misery thou shalt receive if thou wilt slight these counsels, yet even the destruction of thyself and property. Part a portion of thy property, even part of thy lands, and all save the support of thy family." So the Lord understands he still needs to support his family, pay the debt. That is the step he needs to take that will release himself from bondage. He needs to go ahead and mortgage his property. Now, Martin, as I understand, he went ahead with it.

He mortgaged 151 acres to Egbert Grandin. Why did he mortgage it? What does that mean? Well, by paying for the printing in the form of a mortgage, it gave him some freedom, gave Martin greater flexibility than paying by cash. It did a couple of things. It gave Grandin legal access to the farm. He had ownership, but Martin was still able to occupy the property during the printing until the printing was done. It had a time period on it. If by chance the mortgage, if he wanted to reclaim his land because he was able to pay in cash for the printing, then he had 18 months to do that. If he came up with the money, say they sold

the books, he was able to pay Grandin and keep his farm. That was an option. And then additionally, if he sold it for more than 3000, then Martin would be able to legally keep the excess money. So there were some bonuses to mortgaging the property instead of just selling it outright and giving him the money. Either way, E.B. Grandin held the mortgage. He held access to the farm. What a step. You believe that? We all worked really hard to pay the mortgage. He held access to the farm. What a step. You believe that?

We all worked really hard to pay a mortgage, don't we? Yeah. And then to turn around and take it all back on. Andy, you mentioned this phrase in verse 30, I really had never noticed before. He says, declared glad tidings, publish it upon the mountains, do it with humility, trust in me. And then he throws this in, reviling not against the revilers. I can hear Martin saying, well, at least I can talk badly about these people. Like, at least give me that, that I can criticize and insult these people who are criticizing and insulting me. And the Lord's no Please give me that Satisfaction of talking bad about them and the Lord no, we're not gonna revile against the revilers either and then back to repentance faith

baptism and the Holy Ghost I just thought what did we say John before the Lord is easy to please and difficult almost impossible to satisfy. To satisfy. At least let me talk badly about people. Yeah, I'll hand over my farm, but you're going to give me that, right? No. It reminds me of Moroni. Lord, the Gentiles are going to mock this. Yeah, mockers mock.

That's what they do. Revilers revile. Yeah. Do you guys know what tenets are? This is from the 1828 dictionary of the English language, which is probably more appropriate to use because that's when they're using it. The description there is any opinion, principle, dogma, or doctrine which a person believes or maintains as true. The tenets of Christians are adopted from the scriptures, but different interpretations give rise to a great diversity of tenets. It's really what Joseph was fighting

against which led him into the grove, to be honest. Wow. Oh Hank, you know what I love to say when we see that doctrine of Christ there? There's just so many tenets. There's just so many ideas and principles and doctrines and teachings. If only somebody would just come out and say, here's the first principles and ordinances of the gospel. If anybody would just do that. Someone would just tell us what to focus on first. That would be really neat.

And there they are right there. Yeah. And isn't that great? Here's faith, repentance, baptism, the Holy Ghost, just that, that will last you the rest of your life. How many times does he come back to it in the Book of Mormon? 35, 11, it's the first thing he teaches. When 35, 27, when the apostles say,

what do we call the church? He says, we're going to call it after my name. And by the way, let's go through this again. And that will suffice for your daily walk. Maybe that's why we don't go too far beyond that. I want to ask the Lord if the pearly gates, if they swing open or if they roll open. And he said, yeah, I really, these four are going to take you the rest of your life. That's fantastic. I've fallen in love with verse 35 too. It goes right there where it says, release thyself from bondage. It reminds me of, is it Mosiah 24, 14, where these are the people, Amulon and Alma and his people, but that promise, I will covenant with my people and deliver them out of bondage and I will ease the burdens

which are put upon your shoulders that even you cannot feel them upon your backs, even while you are in bondage. Because to be honest, even when he mortgaged the farm, his wife is still going to be mad. So he'll still be in bondage, yet, kind of like when my sister messaged me and said, be still and know, that I was still going to be stake president.

I would still face some fears, but for some reason, the weight of it was just lifted off. The Savior is so masterful at changing perspectives. He is so good at converting. Who was it that said he's the master alchemizer at converting misery and sorrow and pain into wisdom, understanding, even joy. He's so good at converting what hurts into things that bring joy. Even though our circumstances haven't changed, we see them differently. He released thyself from bondage, Martin. Pay the debt and watch. What's gonna happen? You are gonna be a part of

bringing a book onto the planet that's going to change lives for generations. I don't know if you guys know this, but the Book of Mormon is in the top three reasons why recent converts made the decision to be baptized. They felt something when they read it. Martin deciding to act in faith here became a major player in making that happen. That is really neat. And I like what you just said, Andy. Section 19 is just a big shift in perspective. Let me show you this from my perspective.

And just that, it doesn't change the trial. All the circumstances are the same, but wow, I think Martin can say, yeah, now I can move forward. I hadn't thought about that. I really like that. No, I guess that perspective changes looking through the top part of your lenses like you were saying before. Yeah, quit worrying about so much about what's in front of you and in your eyes a little bit. That's fascinating, Andy, because sometimes I think when we're in the middle of really something difficult, we think, no, I need my circumstances to change. I don't need my perspective to change.

I need you to change the circumstances. And yet we go to the Lord and the Lord wants us to change our perspective. And how often do I pray for my circumstances to change, not my perspective? That reminds me of President Nelson's statement that the joy we feel has less to do with the circumstances of our lives and everything to do with the focus of our lives. Way back in verse 23, I just looked at it again. Listen to my words. My perspective. There's plenty of people who are sending you words. Listen to my words. In the days of the internet, right?

How many people have a voice? Sending you words. Sending you words. Lots of words to listen to, Martin. How about my words? Listen to my words. Not theirs. Not the printer's.

Not anybody else. Listen to my words. not theirs, not the printer's, not anybody else, listen to my words. Yeah, good stuff. And I'll say, when you do finally catch a glimpse, you see things differently. Suddenly, the whole world is opened up to you. I remember when Susan H. Porter said, she said, once you see things as God does, you come to know and understand how loved you are. It changes everything. But also you feel different about yourself when you make mistakes.

It changes how you feel when difficult things happen. Changes your view of commandments. It changes your view of others and your capacity to make a difference. But it requires trust, like it says in that verse. Trust in me and I'll show you what happens to people that trust in me. I had a young lady on my stake not long ago who, she went on her mission, came home early for reasons of anxiety, pretty intense anxiety.

She came home and we got rid of the counselor and, and she'd been home about six or seven months, maybe a little longer. And the time had come where we needed to decide what to do. Are we going to send her back out on her mission? Maybe get her connected with a service mission. What are we going to do? I had talked with her counselor. Their recommendation was to keep her home and put her in a service assignment.

So I invited her to my office. She came in. I had this habit of when they would come in, I'd say, hey, tell me about your day. And I did that. I shut the door and I went over to sit down and listen to her. And as I looked up at her as she's telling me about her day, she was kind of a timid little thing, but tell me about her day. And for just a second, for just a second, I saw her differently.

She was not the same young lady I had called on the phone to schedule the interview. I saw her in a different light. It's hard to explain. And as I'm seeing her like that, I had this feeling that said, for her to become that, she needs to go back on her teaching mission. And I was a little overwhelmed. Wow, okay, that's not the way I was leaning. So unfortunately, I didn't hear a thing she said because my mind was on that. She finished describing her day and I said, fantastic. Well, it's great to have you here. Let's pray and we'll

talk about your mission. And we prayed and then I said, well, let me tell you what just happened. And I told her about the experience. She just started to weep. I called the missionary department. The missionary department is very good at trusting keys. I said, I know this goes against the counsel of the professional, which it's always good to follow the council of professionals. They know what they're talking about.

But this came from the Lord and I had to put my trust in Him. We sent her out on the mission and 12 months later she came home, flying colors, totally successful missionary. She was on the path to becoming what the Savior needed her to become. But it was a little tough to put my trust in what I saw and felt, even though everything out here was kind of pointing the other direction. So I am appreciative of Martin Harris for trusting in the Savior. Whenever it happened, somewhere in this section, or maybe when he got to the end, he had a wake up moment, stopped.

And what does it say in verse 40? Can't thou run about longer as a blind guy? The blindness was gone, his eyes were opened, and he realized there's more important things than 151 acres of dirt. I love it. Andy, I think you've shown us here that we have a section of the Doctrine and Covenants that can take us from fear. I'm paralyzed. I can't do this. See, look at verse 39. Can you not read this without rejoicing and lifting up your heart for gladness? So in 38 verses, the Lord can take you from fear, paralyzed,

I cannot sacrifice this, I cannot move forward to, okay, I can do this. It's beautiful. Am I allowed to quote the movie Dune? Because there is a great quote on fear. This comes from Lady Jessica, who's played by Rebecca Ferguson. She and her son, Timothy Chalamet, they're stuck in a tent in the middle of the desert. The tent helps produce the water for them and their whole kingdom has been wiped out just now. And she makes this statement,

I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings obliteration and destruction. I mean, President Hunter even said, fear is the principal weapon that in the arsenal which Satan uses to make us unhappy. Where am I allowing fear to hold me back from turning to the Savior more? Where am I allowing that to happen? Too often the fears are not even realistic. They're built up way bigger than they need to be. I think it was in, yeah, when the Nephites were faced with the Lamanites, this is Mosiah 23,

it says they were much frightened because of the appearance of the Lamanites. I wonder what the difference is between being afraid of the Lamanites and being afraid of the appearance of the Lamanites. I think Martin was so afraid of what could happen, the appearance of the Lamanites, that he let it take control. When if he would just back up for a minute, look through the right lenses, the very next verse says,

Alma stood among them and exhorted them, they should not be frightened, but they should remember the Lord their God and he would deliver them. And then it says in verse 28, therefore, they hushed their fears. Not the savior hushed their fears, they hushed their fears and began to cry unto the Lord. So remembering the savior and his power, trusting in him can empower us to be able to hush our own fears as we have confidence in the creator of the world, Son of God, our Redeemer. It's pretty cool.

Fear too often. I mean, when you invite me to be on the podcast or do something like this that's new, fear is one of the first things you feel in moments like this. Great, I'm going to go on and ruin their podcast. It's very realistic that you have thoughts like that. When anything new enters, Adam and Eve in the beginning in the garden, what was their first emotion they felt, negative emotion. I'm grateful that Martin stopped being afraid and started to trust the Savior. Great section. Wow. It's loaded. 41 verses of good stuff.

You remind me of a student I had, maybe it was a year ago, maybe it was less than that. Her name is Evelyn Phipps and oldest child in her family, very close family. They love to be together. And she was filling this poll to serve a mission and she did not want to. And it wasn't a matter of I don't love the Lord. It was look at all this good that's in my life and my family is everything to me. It's very uncomfortable, especially being first, first the family. John when Ashley went out on a mission, no one's ever done this before in our group, our kid group, but she did it. She went out and it was not her plan.

It was thanks for saying that, Hank, because it just suddenly came to her. I need to go. I should go. Wow, what a life changer that was for her and met her husband. Oh man, it's been great. There's a quote from a book called The Christ Who Heals. This is from Fiona and Terrell Givens and they say, God's omnipotence lies in the divine power to alchemize suffering, tragedy and loss into wisdom, understanding and even joy. He can take pain and turn it into joy, something

that we celebrate about him. Pretty impressive. Alchemize means he's usually used in chemistry when we talk about converting something from one substance to another, like turning lead to gold. Wish we had that superpower. And you know, sister Phipps left and went to Oregon and is loving her mission. Maybe the bondage of verse 35 Andy is release thyself from fear. So how did this start? Here's Martin saying to Joseph, I need a command, I need a command, I need a command. So I've been marking the commandments, right? Verse 13, wherefore I command you to repent. 15, therefore I command you to repent. 20, wherefore I command you again to repent. 21, I command you to preach not but repentance.

25, again I command thee, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife nor seek thy neighbor's life. 26, again I command thee, thou shalt not covet thine own property. Verse 28, again I command thee, thou shalt pray vocally as well as in thy heart. Verse 32, behold, this is a great and last commandment which I give unto you concerning this matter. For this shall suffice thy daily walk even until the end of thy life. I love how generous the Lord is.

All Joseph Smith wanted to know is what church to join. And we're all sitting here now. All Martin wanted was a commandment and he got eight. And then if you go past that, some that don't have the word commandment, but look at these verbs, Hank and Andy, verse 34, impart, verse 35, pay, verse 36, leave, verse 37, speak freely, and verse 38, pray always, which is the same thing the Lord had just said in verse 28, I will pour out my spirit upon you and great shall be your blessing. I love this.

Here's Martin who we're safe to say was concerned about his money, his farm, his property. So pray always and great shall be your blessing even more than if you should obtain treasures of earth and corruptible to the extent thereof. And then Hank you read verse 39. Can you even read this without rejoicing? Isn't that a great verse? Did I just give you the formula for something better than all the wealth you can imagine?

If you will just pray always. Can you even read this without rejoicing and lifting up your heart for gladness? That's such a great way to end. I'm thinking of Elder Holland having the recent experiences that he's had coming back and saying, we need to pray more fervently and that'll bless you more than all the treasures of earth, right? Anyway, what a great section. You want a commandment? Okay, here's a commandment. I'll give you a bunch.

That's been obvious too that Elder Holland, you've seen a recommitment from him even though he's dealing with his wife's death, his health problems, he is recommitted with vigor, with power. It's quite amazing. Yeah. Section 19, I know this happened four years ago John when we studied it and it's happened again for me today. This is the pen of heaven. This is beautiful and so well written. And the argument just flows really well from, let's take you from here to here where you wanted to be. I noticed section 19 is revelation given through

Joseph Smith, yet Joseph almost is not there. He's not in this section as we all studied it today. I didn't even think of Joseph. I just thought of the Lord talking to Martin. And yet all of this is coming through Joseph Smith. It's almost as if Joseph fades into the background, delivering this message. I almost wonder because he did receive it. And I wonder if he, as he read it or heard it, if he kind of like backed off and said,

okay, this one's clearly for you. Cause it's a call to repentance. And I think Joseph probably had warned Martin, you already have made a covenant what you need to do. You sure you, and then he received this and I can just see Joseph going, all right, you asked for it. Here you go. Here it comes. You know, and there's some tough, he calls Martin to repentance like, like nothing else, but there's also a message of love that you can see in a golden thread that runs through this entire section. There is a message of love says Martin I love you please stop suffering just repent

and let's get this ball rolling go and pay the debt and release thyself from bondage so maybe there's a reason Joseph is not in it that much but I don't know what do you think? You notice at the very beginning I am Alpha and Omega Christ the the Lord. It's like, who's talking here? Wow. From beginning to end. As you pointed out, Andy, the only time we have the first person account of bleeding at every pore is in this section. Wow.

So, yeah, the pen of heaven. Thanks for saying that, Hank. This is a powerful stuff. If there's anybody listening who is thinking, I just don't know if Joseph Smith is a prophet. I don't know. Section 19 could be a good place to go in. Read it closely, carefully in this section. He's a child. I know for 24 year olds, 24 is pretty old, but he's 24 years old. And this, this comes out of a 24 year old. And there's wisdom, not that a 24 year old isn't smart, but there's just wisdom from living a long time. There's just wisdom from being a grandpa

or a grandma that you just don't get, not because you're not smart, but just you haven't lived long enough. And section 19 is not the experience of someone who's been around the sun, you know, 25 times. There's deep wisdom here. I wonder why it was in this section that the Savior chose to share such intimate personal thoughts. It's one of three places talks about bleeding from every pore. It's the only place he talks first person about what he went through. Why in this section? Maybe it just teaches about his love for the individual that's

struggling. That's a section that was given a revelation given to all of us because you can't be in mortality and not experience suffering. It's kind of like Martin, you're worried about this potential sacrifice. I understand sacrifice. Let me explain sacrifice. And to anyone who's facing a deep sacrifice, Section 19 can speak to you. Isn't it amazing that these sections speak to Martin Harris, but also to a Latter-day Saint in 2025 who's thinking about going on a mission. Andy, let me ask you something.

You have been a full-time educator for the church for 30 plus years. You don't look it, but that is a fact. Stake president for nine years now serving in a mission presidency, right? Yeah, Utah or a mission. You've had some time to study Joseph Smith. There are many out there who will say Joseph Smith is a is an obvious con That Latter-day Saints just can't see it for some crazy reason So for somebody who's listening who hears those messages, maybe even from family, maybe someone listening is just joined the church Maybe it's like Martin you are being taken Don't do this. So Andy, what would you say to someone in that situation?

You've had a good chance to study. What have you found about Joseph Smith? Is he really what we claim he is? It's a great question. And I have had people say that to me, that you're being taken. When I left on my mission in 1989, I had never read the full Book of Mormon. I had read Joseph Smith's history, but I had never read the book he translated. I knew that in his history, it says that he was destined to become a disturber and an annoyer of Satan's kingdom. I have seen how the truths that he has introduced into the world

as a living prophet and as a past prophet, how it's changed lives. The first door that my companion knocked on my mission, my trainer. He described to that woman that the Book of Mormon was a record of the people that lived on the American continent, that it was recorded by prophets, and that the Bible was a record of the people on the old continent. Then she ended up giving him a book. And this was all in Spanish, not the same Spanish I was taught in the MTC, I'll have you know, but it was Spanish. And as we walked away, I remember asking him, will you explain that to me again, what you just said to her? And I realized we went home for lunch, that I was in a real pickle because I didn't know that the Book of Mormon was true. And I did not know that Joseph was a prophet, but I was supposed to testify of both of those

things for two years, two years in Spanish. It's like selling the farm. Yeah. If I don't find out for myself that this is true, then this is a waste of my parents' money, any money I may have contributed, and it's a waste of time. So I made a commitment. That commitment, it changed the path of my life more than any other decision I've made,

more than any other. First only to who I married, to be honest. So the decision was, you need to go home and read the entire standard works, all of the scriptures, because if you don't know what is contained in them, how are you going to testify? Now, so I did that. I went home. It took six months. Didn't leave the apartment for six months. No, that's not true. So I went home and I studied every morning for an hour, personal study, and I read. And interestingly, I started in the Old Testament. I started right here in Genesis and went that way and ended up at the end of the Pearl Great Price. I made it into the Old Testament.

I was in the Book of Judges when I started to feel things. By the time I got into the Book of Mormon, I had found and felt that the book was true. Well, it can only be true if Joseph Smith is a prophet because Joseph Smith brought forth the book by the gift and power of God. So I would have to say, if you don't know, if the church is true, if Joseph was a prophet, if the church of Jesus Christ has been restored to the earth, if you don't know those things for sure, you really have to do what Joseph did, you have to do what's in verse 23. Listen to my words, learn of me.

And then you have to take those, what you learn words, learn of me. And then you have to take what you learn and feel into the woods. You've got to find out for yourself. Those feelings I felt in the Book of Mormon as I read it and the other scriptures, I can still feel those thoughts and those feelings. They're very fresh. I came to know for myself that the church was true, that Joseph was a prophet, and the words that he translated were true. He was just a farm boy. He was just a kid. And I love that God worked through a kid and he was at that time working through me. I was just a

kid. And I came to know it was true and that Joseph was a prophet. He gave his life for the work. Henry David Thoreau in a book called Walden, he said, the cost of a thing is the amount of life which is required to be exchanged for it. Immediately or in the long run. The cost of a thing, what I'm thinking of right now is the cost of the Book of Mormon, is the amount of life which is required to be exchanged for it. Martin Harris gave a very large chunk of his life so we could have the Book of Mormon that was translated by Joseph Smith. The best I know how I testify

that Joseph was a prophet and he brought forth this great work. I don't know what I would do without this book. I feel like there's a gap in my life if I don't read it or listen to it on a daily basis, a little bit or a lot. It's got to be in my life. It is the rod. It's the only way to the tree. There is no other way to the tree. I testify of Joseph Smith's prophecy that he was a prophet and that the book he translated was true. And that these revelations, the one that we study today is true, power in it. When I have come to learn of him and listen to the Savior's words and try and walk like he did, it has brought me great peace.

So Joseph Smith, put it short, Joseph Smith for me equals Jesus Christ in peace. It's because of him that I can learn more about my savior and have peace in my life. Yeah. To anyone listening out there who thinks, what about what so-and-so said online? What about this person? What did they say on Instagram or on TikTok? And I think the Lord would say, learn of me, listen to my words. Don't listen to them, listen to me. Says nothing about TikTok in verse 23 that I can see there anyway.

Learn from me, listen to my words, follow me on TikTok, walk in the meekness of my spirit. Yeah, that verse 23 is so relevant right now for us today, for Martin Harris back then and right now for us today. What are you looking at? What are you listening to? How are you trying to walk? Don't try to find peace in all the wrong places because you're only going to find it here. Yeah, it's so fun, John, to have a teacher walk you through a section. Such an experienced teacher, not an old one, but an experienced teacher. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. It's been a lot of fun.

Felt some great things today. We loved having you here, Andy. Hey, those of you who want to come on to YouTube and leave us a comment. We will give that to Andy. Let us know what you learned from him. Also, if you saw something in this section that you want to add, please, we want to hear that.

If you don't want to go into YouTube and go to our website, follow him.co. There's a place to send us a message. We would love to hear from you. We love learning together. With that, we want to thank Andy Horton for being with us today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen. And every week, every week we remember our founder Steve Sorensen. We hope you'll join us next week. We're going to talk the organization of the church on Follow Him. Today's show notes and transcript are on our website, followhim.co. That's followhim.co. followhim.co. That's followhim.co. Of course, none of this could happen without our production team.

David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Nielsen, Will Stoughton, Crystal Roberts, Ariel Quadra, Amelia Cabuica, and Annabel Sorensen. Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to Him. Follow Him.