Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 29 : Dr. Anthony Sweat Part II

Episode Date: March 21, 2021

Dr. Sweat reminds us why we should reconsider if we teach that Lucifer wanted to save everyone. Hank, John, and Dr. Sweat continue to teach how the Lord's Atonement and His confidence in us can sustain us in the Last Days (which are now!). This episode reminds us we don't need to fear the Last Days due to the protection of His Spirit, our covenants, and God's grace. This is an episode that will help every teacher, parent, and member remember why they love their membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and why they love the Savior.

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. It seems to me that bringing all of these members of the church in, they're going to have different views on the fall. And we, they're probably, if some are coming from Presbyterian type, they're going to have views of the fall, others are going to come from Methodist, they're going to have views of the fall. I know that we, as Lauderdale Saints, have a completely different view of the fall than most of the world. And here it comes up. Do you think maybe that starts to happen in this church as different

denominations, different types of religions are coming in? Because everyone's a convert at this point. That they're going to have to find, okay, what do we believe? that they're going to have to find, okay, what do we believe? I think the context that John Whitmer gives for the section about differing over the Adam's transgressions shows that they have different views of it as a whole. I think that supports that.

Surely that has to be going on. So it's this melting pot and we better decide. We better, that would just be so fascinating to find out what you believe every conference. Right. Every, yeah. Every conference like, Oh, I didn't know I believe that. I do now. Whereas our conferences are very repetitive. Their conferences, this is breakthrough stuff. Every time we get together, we've got it, we've got to talk Satan because these are the first verses by the way verse 36 is the first time we get in the doctrine of covenants

Versus about the pre-mortal life This is the first time we get talking about Satan becoming Satan now again. That's connected to Moses Chapter four as we already talked about but this is the first time but back to concepts being revealed This is a new idea of like there is this pre- life and this premortal war and rebellion and Satan trying to take God's power and so how exciting how exciting stuff that's all half for us. Yeah, this is the this is the moment it came on new verse 36 is like brand new for most of them. They've never heard that idea before. Of a premortal life. In fact, if they have the Bible,

the only mentions of a premortal life are maybe the opening chapters of the opening verses of the Gospel of John. Maybe a little bit in Jeremiah, but there's, it's just not there. Yeah. I would say even in the Book of Mormon, there's the phrase, the foundation of the world, there's in the first place in Alma 13, but it's not really, really explained like it is here and in the Prolet Great Price.

Yeah. And this has got to be part of that, what you said, the inner twining with the Bucamosis, right? Yeah, it definitely is. And I think it's really important too, like I'm just looking at verse 36, for behold, the devil was before Adam and he rebelled against me.

So now they just switched their like, okay, so the devil was tempting Adam, but the devil rebelled against me saying, give me thine honor, which is my power. And also a third part of the host of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency and they were thrust down. That down is down to earth. This is not the end of days. This is pre mortal life.

And thus became the devil in his angels. And so this is almost the first time that the Lord is revealing how Satan became Satan, how the devil fell. And I think it's really important. And then in verse 39, it will give some rationale of the devil tempting so that we can show that we choose the sweet over the bitter. I was gonna say, this almost seems like a devil, Lamy. Not only was there a pre-mortal life, but there was agency in that pre-mortal life.

And there was agency in that pre-mortal life. And that's kind of one of the concepts I want to touch on. Let's please put to bed this idea that there were two plans in the premortal life. And Jesus offered a plan and Satan offered a plan. And Satan's plan, he would say, if everyone in Jesus's plan there would be choice. So God chose Jesus's plan and Satan got mad and God got mad at them and kicked him out. That's the worst in my opinion rendition of the pre-Mortal War in heaven that has ever happened. I mean, Satan's rebellion against God, if I could frame it in my own words,

drawing on words like this and words of Scripture, he is saying to God, give me your power. He is saying, I want your position. I want to be you. I mean, Satan always wants to be God. That's the definition of Satan. He wants to be God without going through the plan of Godhood. He wants to rip God down out of his throne and enthrone himself. I mean, Isaiah says it this way.

This is Isaiah 14, 12 to 14. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning? For thou hast set in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven. I will exalt my throne above the star of God. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. I will be like the most high. You know, when Satan was rejecting God's plan, he's not rejecting Jesus's plan.

He's rejecting the plan of salvation, the plan of exaltation, the eternal plan. And when he's saying that he wanted to destroy our agency, when people say that Satan wanted to make it so that he was going to save everyone, that's an impossibility. He's running on an empty platform. That's like the kid in high school whose campaign platform to become student body president is, I'll make all your wildest dreams come true, you know. I'll put a vending machine in every classroom. He's just trying to say whatever he can say to deceive. And with that too, we have to look at the word agency.

There is not a single human being that wants to feel forced. Human beings don't like that. Like people don't like to feel boxed into a corner. And so this idea that Satan was going to take away our ability to choose doesn't. Number one, it's not true. You can't take away someone's ability to choose. Agency is an eternal principle that's self-existing with your intelligence as Joseph teaches. But number two, it also doesn't make sense that the way he would appeal to people is by saying, I'm going to take away your ability to choose. That doesn't make sense. That's not a selling platform.

Like, hey, I'll tell you what, let me take away your ability to choose. Sound like a plan and people are like, that's great. It makes more sense that he's saying, I agency also means to represent like, you know, Hank and John, you have agents who represent you. Oh, sure. I know you do. You have both teams. And it's almost like Satan is saying, I want to take away people's, if you're an agent, what connects to agency? Well, what connects it to it is accountability, agency and accountability. The ability to represent God, therefore if you are representing God and doing God's work, you're accountable back to judgment and who you're accountable to, I almost read it more like Satan saying, I'm not going to make anybody accountable.

I'm not going to make anybody have to answer for what they do. There are decisions. And that is more appealing to people. If I took general human nature, general human nature is we don't want to account for our actions. Right. That appeals to people more. There are no consequences. Yeah, exactly.

There is no. Again, I've always thought that in the book of Moses, when the Lord speaks in Moses 4.3, he sees right through Satan's false platform, as you call it, he's looking for three, he says, wherefore, because Satan rebelled against me and sought to destroy the agency of man, like he sees right through it, he, I know what you're trying to do.

You're saying you want to redeem all mankind, I know that you truly want to destroy agency, right? An agency is a gift. It's a gift agency and accountability make it so you can become like God. So I think you're right, Tony. I think he's saying, let's get rid of this whole idea of the iraccountable. One, no one's ever going to become like God, but two, hey, you don't have to. And he's trying to stage a rebellion, a coup in the process. He's trying to dethrone God and enthrone himself, which helps us understand why we were having none of that. I would never teach your children that Satan wanted to save everyone.

I don't think the Lord saw right through that and said, no, Satan wanted to destroy everyone. That was, yeah. I wanted to destroy you. I wanted to destroy God. I wanted all done undone. And like any dictator, he wanted to use everyone. That was yeah. I wanted to destroy you. I wanted to destroy God. I wanted I wanted all I wanted all done undone and like any dictator he wanted to use everyone. He he wants to put out a false premise and false platform and use people to get his own ends in an unjust unethical way. I just wanted to touch on that for a second in these verses to make sure we're we're not perpetuating ideas to our children that somehow Satan had a good plan.

Satan's plan was terrible. You do you, it's a terrible idea, John. Oh, I just remember Joseph Filting Maconkey saying it kind of funny is that the father's plan was not what should I do. The father's plan was whom shall I send? He had the plan. Yeah, he wasn't I'm stumped. What do we do here? And and let's have people offer different plans. There was the heavenly father's plan Satan tried to take his powers, you said and so I

I appreciated that way of putting it our father's said. And so I appreciate it that way of putting it. Our father's question was, whom shall I send? And the same thing in Moses for he says, my beloved son, which was my beloved and chosen from the beginning, right? I knew I was, I knew who I was going to send. I was going to do the whole time. Yeah. But I wanted him to have the choice. Yeah. Right? He says, I know who I want to go. Now whom shall I send? He gets to volunteer himself. That's the Lord's value, I think, of agency is I will not force anyone, including the

Savior. I will not force the Savior to do what he can volunteer him. And it's back to the broader theme of agency that runs through this whole chapter. You choose to be elect or you choose to rebel. It's your choice. I tell my book Mormon students, you know, because Nephi starts out by saying I was highly favored of the Lord. I'm like, what? God has favorites. How can that be? That doesn't seem fair. I say, well, you choose that status. That's up to you. There are Lamanites, Nephites, Jacobites, Josephites, and Favourites, and you choose to be a Favourite. You know, he loves those who will have him to be their God for Nephites, 1735. So I just like that idea. And throughout this section about you choose your agency. Yeah. One thing I've learned as a parent, and I think we're getting a sense of it here,

is righteousness is not righteousness, unless it's chosen. The moment righteousness becomes forced, it's no longer righteousness by definition. I didn't choose it. Yeah, and righteousness, I don't wanna get too theological also, but if you follow the next verses in verse

back to Adam's sin, look at verse 39, this is what you're saying, Hank, and it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents in them, so you have to force righteousness, or if it's not a choice, it's not righteousness. But then look at verse 40, wherefore it came to pass that the devil tempted Adam, and he, particular of the forbidden fruit and trans the devil tempted Adam, and he particularly forbidden fruit and transgress the commandment. And then here's the problem.

Therefore he became subject to the will of the devil because he yielded to temptation. Now, I know in typical Latter-day Saint discourse, we only want to frame Adam and Eve's choice in glorious terms. And even as Joseph is doing the Josephine translation and translates these chapters, and this enlightened view that their fall was a fall forward, as we like to say, let's not forget that from these verses right here,

although their fall was a fall forward and although they were moving the plan of God forward and they made a conscious choice to do so, the problem is they're listening to the wrong person. So Hank, what was your line you just said about righteousness? Is not righteousness if what? Unless it's chosen, right? Unless it's freely chosen.

It's no, if someone forces me to be righteous. It's no longer righteousness, even though I'm doing the right things. I remember a youth telling me once she was just so frustrated, she said, I want to pay my tithing and she said, but my father stands over me and forces me to write out my tithing check. He watches me and she said, it doesn't feel right to me. And I, you know, I try not to ever get between parents and children, but I've always remembered that going, man, that to me does not sound like she chose righteousness. She wants to choose righteousness, but someone's forcing her to do it.

And she doesn't feel like righteousness to her. And, and with that too, you can, you can do right, but following the wrong people. Adam here is letting Satan give him directions. That's the root problem. You and I don't yield to the voice of Satan. We don't listen to his directives. God wants Adam to follow what God's telling him to do. And it's almost like the same problem

that Cane and Abel will have. He used to always confuse me when Cane and Abel bring forth their offerings to God. And when I was a kid, I was like, but they're both bringing offerings. I thought the Lord doesn't care if our offerings are greater small. And why does the Lord have respect for Abel's offering, but not Cain's? And it's because Cain is taking, taking directions from the adversary. And he's not doing it for the

right reasons. Now, I'm not placing a judgment here on the great head of all of humanity, but the Lord Himself says that the issue was that Adam yielded temptation because he became subject to the will of the devil in verse 40 and that back to choosing again. We always need to make sure we're choosing to hark into the right voice because the adversary will take you know different measures to try to get his will done. These last couple of verses 36 towards here we are at 41. This feels very influenced by the book of Mormon and second Nephi too.

I don't know if it is because I don't know how well they know the Book of Mormon by September of 1830, right? But this idea of agency is there's no better place for it to be laid out than second Nephi, too, right? The how the fall connects to agency and Adam's choice and results in our choice. I wonder if verse 40 isn't so much about Adam as it could be about me, right? That I become subject to the will of the devil when I yield to temptation. When I yield the temptation.

Yeah, I will send. Yeah, and I don't want to do that. I don't want to be subject to what he wants me to do. In the Book of Mormon, we get an interesting sense of who the adversary is, and how truly scary he is, this idea of he can, what is it, where you guys will have to remind me, he whispers, right? He leads us carefully.

Where is that? Second Nephi 28. Second Nephi. Second Nephi. Yeah. Right. Others he will pacify. Lowly into carnal security.

He'll lead them away carefully down to hell. To me, that's some scary language that you can become subject to that when you yield to temptation. I've always said, sin makes you stupid, right? Like you end up doing irrational things. The people on the news all the time, I'm going, when in the world did they think that was going to work out? Like, at what point did they think, this is a bad plan, right? This is going to end up bad for me. And I wonder if it's part of this being pacified. Sherry Doe has a chapter in one of her books. I think it's called,

Sin Makes You Stupid and It Costs A Lot, too. So yeah, I've heard that before it. And yeah, you do, you watch and you think, how, what, how, what, huh? Yeah. I've read an article the other day of a guy who stole a manual car and he didn't know how to drive it.

And he's, he's stalling out in the middle of the, of the interception, I'm going, yeah, that, that, that, you never, that plan never should have got off the ground. Yeah, and, and with this too, with what you're just saying, Hank in verse 45, well, I mean, even before 45, kind of back to like the application to you and I, when we become, you know, tying these together, when we listen to the devil and we yield the temptation in verse 40, in verse 41, we lose the presence of God, we become spiritually dead,

which is the first death in verse 41, which if we stay that way, back to this whole theme of this chapter of choosing God or not, using our agency to prepare to be in his presence, well, the only time when the Lord will say depart ye curse at the end of verse 41 is if we don't repent, which is in verse 42, verse 41 is if we don't repent, which is in verse 42. So the Lord says, Hey, you're going to, there's a temporal death and there's a spiritual death back to temporal and spiritual. And the Lord sends angels to declare repentance and redemption from our mistakes that we make through faith on his son. And then in verse 43, the Lord gives us a probationary time to choose him, to show that we'll choose him and not listen to the voice of the adversary.

We'll conquer the maggots, the flesh, the flies in verse 43 because of Jesus will be raised into immortality and eternal life if we'll believe. If we don't repent in verse 44, we'll be damned. And we won't be redeemed from this fall that started with Adam and on down to us simply because of the universe 44, we repent not. And then in verse 45, why? Because sometimes we love darkness rather than light. And we're going to those wages, like that it won't pay off well for us of who we obey. So, you know, you and I judge, we judge no man, we leave that to the Savior, we only judge ourselves, but the question for all of ourselves for us is,

who am I choosing to obey, who am I choosing to follow? How am I using my agency to listen to obey, who am I choosing to follow? How am I using my agency to listen to God, to follow His Son, to reject the whispers of the adversary, and to choose faith in Him, and to follow Him as a whole. Section 29, it almost wraps it back, that whole theme back when it comes back here at the end with those verses. Yeah, that's what it feels like to me. As I was reading section 29, I feel like I kind of get lost in the woods at times

and I'm chewing on a big piece of steak here, just trying to understand it and get it. But then you hit those that verse in verse 42. That seems to be the ray of light that comes, that I will send forth angels, he has, in the last, you know, it's 1830, that's what he's been doing since 1820, sending forth angels to declare into them repentance and redemption through faith on the name of mine only we got in Son. If I'm a parent, which I am,

that's going to be my focus. It's going to be section 29 verse 42. All of this, you know, beforehand is a lot of the natural results of sin, the fall, understanding Satan's plan, understanding spiritual and temporal, and it's all important, but I want to get to verse 42. Listen to this quote from Joseph Smith. He gave this in September 1839. He's given a little discourse and he records this in his journal. He says it's quote, spoke and explained concerning the uselessness of preaching to the world about great judgments, but rather to preach the simple gospel.

And then he goes on to talk about all the calamities of the of the second coming. But it's almost like he prefaces that he's talking to some people and he's like, don't go out there and and just preach about all these great calamities as we've just done in section 29. But teach the simple gospel, which you've got to get to those verses that you just mentioned there in in this section, you've got to get to those verses that you just mentioned there in this section. You've got to get to those verses 41 to 43 and it's very, very, very discouraging to teach about the fall and then have the bell ring. Right. Like you're going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

I'm going to be like, I paste that lesson terribly because everyone's feeling discouraged and terrible. And you're like, well, don't ever teach the fall without teaching the atonement, right? Don't ever teach the bad news without teaching the good news. Yeah, my dad told me one time that they I I wonder if I heard this right, but they sang first second verse. I heard the bells on Christmas day and had to dismiss and and Hey, this strong and mocks the song of peace on earth goodwill toward men Good night everybody

And it's like a country music song you got to get to the end to get your horse back and your truck back and your dog back and everything else Hank what you were saying before I really liked about The natural consequences and I look at verse 45 They love darkness rather than light. Their deeds are evil. They receive the wages of him whom they list to obey. And that's kind of, I guess getting into that apostle Paul thing about we receive wages.

And there's natural consequences of trying to follow the savior trying to go the other way. Yeah, and we hate to see it. It's not something I enjoy seeing in people's lives like, well, see, I told you so. But I have never seen a life controlled by the natural man, Mosiah 3, turn out well. I have never seen it turn out well. It always spirals into just spirals into a complete mess. And for those people I love, I want to be there, like other people have been there for me to help me pick up that mess. The adversary will leave you in a mess. He will leave you off on kicked off to the side of the road. And we'll be there to help you. With that, Hank, it's great to also emphasize,

if I can just read the rest of this, Joseph Smith quote, on where he says, don't talk about great judgments, but preach the gospel. He then says this, also it's a false idea that the saints will escape all the judgments while the wicked suffer. For all flesh is subject to suffer. And the righteous shall hardly escape.

Still many of the saints will escape, for the just will live by faith, yet many of the righteous shall fall prey to disease and pestilence by reason of the weakness of the flesh, and yet be saved in the kingdom of God. So it is an unhallowed principle to say that such and such of transgressed because they have been prayed upon by disease or death for all flesh The subject of death and the Savior has said judge notless eby judged That's the rest of that quote and I know that's not what you're saying Hank at all You're saying that their lives don't turn out well spiritually and they don't right because all of us are gonna suffer Yeah, as we've seen on this part of being in this fallen world,

what these verses, and I think what the gospel is trying to say, is in the midst of the T-lust show problems of the world that all of us encounter, you can still lift up your head and rejoice and be glad, like verse 5 says, and even if temporal things go wrong, there are no temporal, it's all spiritual, you can have spiritual things go right, and even if temporal things go wrong, there are no temporal. It's all spiritual. You can have spiritual things go right. And that's important too in the midst of all of this for for those who are like, but I am loving Jesus. I am trying to follow his voice.

I am trying to do what's right. And temporal things are still going wrong and falling apart. Joseph saying they will. It's part of living in the last days and living in a fallen world as a whole. You can still lift up your head and rejoice because of the Savior's promises to conquer all of that. Yeah, I remember Elder Maxwell saying there's really three reasons for trials and difficulties. He said one is our own choices, which I think that's section 29 verse 45, right? We received the wages of whom we'd list to obey.

Whom we list to obey. I sometimes I think the Lord says, you know, I was going to give you some trials, Hank, but you do a really great job of creating your own. So go ahead and you're just a master artist of making your life hard. He said, second is we sign up for a T last year world. It's just part of living on this planet. I think that's part of the quote you read, right, Tony? This idea of we all signed up to live here, the flesh.

And that Joseph Smith quote, and he said, third, sometimes the Lord uses trials and difficulties to deliberately shape us. I think when we're talking about level one, let's try to get rid of those. Let's try to not make our own trials in our lives. Let's try to make our own. Life is hard and hard. Yeah. Yeah. Two is that's going to be part of it. This is part of where we live. And three is the Lord is spiritually shaping, shaping us. Verse 42 to me is a highlight. and declare into them repentance and redemption through faith on the name of my only begotten Son. And then verse over to verse 49, I just drew a little line over to connect them.

Have I not commanded to repent? That seems to be the Lord's wherefor what of this section, right? Like, yeah. You've learned all this, therefore, how about some repentance? And he seems excited about repentance in verse 42. How have you in your own teaching?

And you can take this however however you want it, where you want to go here, Tony, but how have you, how can we make repentance more positive? Right? A positive thing. It's a positive principle of the gospel, right? The Lord talks about it with excitement. And yet sometimes we talk about repentance with, you know, kind of this piton, our stomach. We have to we have to rebrand repentance, you know, there's the, we there's this idea of, you know, cognitive reappraisal. Those are PhD words. You're not allowed to use those. Let me use a phrase. To put it in simple, basically what it says is reframe in your mind how you think of something in your mind affects your behavior.

So, you know, the easy one is instead of saying, I'm nervous, you say, I'm, you know, I don't feel nervous. You say, I feel excited. Because those emotions are very similar. And instead of calling it repentance, we should just call it improvement. Or I like to call repentance realignment. It's the easiest way for me to think of it. And just one quick analogy with it, I think sometimes we get down ourselves with repentance

because it's viewed as though we failed instead of viewing it as a success. You know, remember, faith, repentance, baptism, holy ghost, positive, positive, positive, it's not faith. Yay, repentance, boo, you know, baptism. Yay, holy ghost. Yay. No, those are all four very positive.

Four repentance. I just feel bad for him, sitting there. I know. I know. You know, I give this analogy where one time I took my daughter out when she was learning to drive, I won't name her by name, but her name rhymes with Megan, Hank, you know her.

And she's on a mission right now. And she's currently on a mission. You know, when we got in the car, she looked at the gear shifter and she said, Dad, what does Perndell mean? P R N D, what does Perndol mean? P are N D at what does Perndol mean? Then she asked me which one was the gas. She sincerely asked which one's the gas

and which one's the brake. And I said, I'll answer your question, but I need to pray first. You know, let's go get your mom. And she was all over the place. Her first left hand turn, she turned into oncoming traffic because she thought when you turn left

that you went into the nearest lane. Closes lane, oh wow. She went too fast on turns and too slow on straightaway. She didn't yield it around about and on and on and on. And the great thing was though, is as I coached her and I said slow down, speed up, press on the brake, that's that's other pedal. She listened and she re-aligned every time. And she was the most I like to call it, she was a terribly obedient driver. And you and I can be obedient sinners. That's an important concept to grasp,

that obedience is not particularly for the listeners out there who struggle with feelings of perfectionism, that obedience is not mistake-free living. Obadiance is characterized by a heart who desires to listen to and align their life with Jesus. And if you desire to listen to and align your life with Jesus, you're obedient. Despite being all over the place sometimes with your spiritual driving, because I know I am. I know the Lord has patience with me in it. And he has patience with you too.

Repentance, he loves a repentant heart. He loves someone who wants to realign and progress and listen, which is what repentance is. It reminds me of the parable of the Pharisee and the public. The Lord said, I saw the Pharisee there and he was reciting all of the amazing things he did. And they are amazing things. He was fasting twice a week. He paid a full five. I can't find it. It's all, you know. Yeah, he was doing some amazing things.

But not once in his prayer was their mention of repentance, not once. But then you get this publican who's on the other side of the social scale, right? Works for Rome and everybody hates him. And he's known for being a, a publican is known for being a cheat and a, you know, kind of a scoundrel. And the one thing he says in his prayer, it's the only thing he says in

his prayer is be merciful to me a sinner, right? The repentance. And the Lord says, that's what we're after. I think almost all the parables are just different ways of looking at repentance. I love the, I just the the other day, teaching doctrines and teachings of the book, Mormon, I, you know, our topic today is repentance and atonement and rebirth and, and in the chat window, put the first word that comes to your mind when I say repent. And I wanted to see where they positive,

where they negative, what did I see there? And, and then we read Elder Holland, I wanted to see where they positive, where they negative, what did I see there? And then we read Elder Holland. I think this might help us rebrand repentance. I like the way you put that, Tony, who said, repent is perhaps the most hopeful and encouraging word in the Christian vocabulary. And then we had a discussion about that. Why is it hopeful?

Why is it encouraging? And then the Bible dictionary definition of repentance is really nice, a fresh view about God, about oneself, and about the world. And you were talking, Tony, Aaron was about driving. I was reminded of President Oukdorf talking about the fact that a plane is off course most of the time. And it just makes tiny corrections all the way to its destination with the autopilot and that we can be that too continuously

making course corrections and we'll arrive where we need to. So that's a good topic to talk about, rebranding repentance. We don't want to make it sound casual or easier, make it flippant about it, but it is a hopeful, wonderful, thankfully available process. You could imagine how, back to this section how hopeful and thinkful Adam felt after he yielded to transgression and listened to the voice of the adversary that the Lord says,

I'll forgive you of that. I'll cleanse you of that. I'll put that right behind you and right behind me if you'll decide to listen to me. Will you listen to me and Adam's like, of course. Yeah, that's what I want. And they're like, let's move forward. That's a hopeful thing. I bet Adam was ecstatic over that. Yeah, that's exciting. The idea of I can improve. I can change. I have a quote here from from Elder Anderson. This is way back in the 1900s, but he said, repentance is powerful spiritual medicine. Each sin we leave behind through our faith in Christ, both those of commission and omission, open spiritual doors. See how positive this is? We must become converted to daily repentance.

As we garner sufficient faith and trust to meekly surrender ourselves to the Lord's way, we are repenting. Right? Anytime we say, I'll do it the Lord's way, that's a type of repentance. He then says, we may not always succeed as quickly as we would want. I think that's part of where that difficulty comes in, right? Is that kind of disappointment that I'm just not as good as I'd hoped. He says, but as we make repentance a constant part of

our lives, miracles occur as we continue inch by inch, can you feel that idea of a slow, right, change? As we continue inch by inch to repent, we determine nothing will hold us back. We will do our part with this commitment to who we can become. The spirits will doors swing open. There is a new freedom to feel and to know and to a freedom to become. That sounds like what you talked about, John, right? The fresh view of God and oneself. And then this promise, he says, I promise you that as you peel off the layers of sin, just a little of a time, you will feel the loving kindness of our eternal Savior. And I would, I would just bear witness of that, that the times where I am closest to divinity is when I am the most humble and trying to correct,

trying to realign myself with God. And it's a wonderful thing. I look forward to that evening prayer, even though it stings a little bit. It's that good kind of pain. You know, like that workout pain where you're going, this is painful, but it's, I'm improving, right? I'm getting stronger. I can feel it. Well, this has been great. Tony, thank you for spending time with us. I hope we'll see you again. And I think our listeners would just love to hear. You've spent so many years teaching this. You know the ups and downs, the early church had. You know the, and downs the early church had, you know the their triumphs, you know their mistakes. What keeps you here? What keeps you fully all in the gospel and in this story of the restoration?

You know, I'm glad you mentioned, I mean, I have so much to learn still, but I'm glad you mentioned their ups and downs, their mistakes, their failures, their growth, their progress, because it's emblematic of all of us individually. You know what? What I love about the restoration and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ and what has me continue in it is what it does to me as a person, as a human being. Richard Bushman has a little quote where he says, you have to ask yourself, what are the consequences of these beliefs, meaning the beliefs of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ? Have they resulted in good in your life and the life of others you have known?

If they have, then you want to treat them with respect. As with science, a religion that works and produces results has to be taken seriously. Isn't that a great quote? Is that in roughstone rolling? No, that's in a little book that he wrote called on the road with Joseph. It's page 111 if anybody wants the reference. But I don't know.

The reason why I reference that quote is because the restored gospel of Jesus Christ has profoundly changed me into being a different person. Now I'm still having extremely flawed and weak, and I have a lot of areas to grow and improve, but the gospel has caused me to grow and caused me to improve. There was this joke when I grew up in the 90s, there was this saying that people are writing your yearbook, dude, don't ever change. Stay the same.

Hey bro, don't ever change. As though if you changed, I don't know what they're getting at was like, stay true to yourself. But the idea is if you don't ever change something's wrong with you. And I like to joke that if Jesus had signed my high school yearbook He would have said Tony, you know have a great summer, but please for all of our sakes change

I'm serious and and then he would have of course wrote p s. I will help you Because you need a lot of help I I will help you because you need a lot of help. I think of how the gospel of Jesus Christ makes me be a better person, be a better husband, be a better father, be a better neighbor. It impacts like every aspect of my life, every day of my life, and it impacts me for good. And that all comes through the revelations, the scriptures, beginning with what Joseph Smith

and on to the Latter-day prophets today. And of course, I credit the old and New Testament as well and past prophets. But again, there is something to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ that is so expansive. I feel my soul enlarged. I feel my mind enlightened. I feel my character transformed. I feel like it, it's teachings make me the best possible version of myself that I can be now all I might ever be is a Honda Accord I'm not I'm not a John by the way Ferrari or Hank Smith Tesla but hey, I know

But the Lord will make me the best Honda Accord possible and And that's why I love it. And that's why I believe in it. Is it brought out the best version of myself? And that's undeniable. I love the gospel intellectually. I love the revelations. I mean, just even these that we learned, think of everything you know about the plan of salvation. You know more about the plan of salvation than most people, but it's because of the revelations that have come through Joseph Smith, things like pre-mortal life and agency,

and the purpose of life, and the last days and the spirit world, and resurrection and eternal life, and eternal families, and progression and eternal life and eternal families and progression and exaltations. Those all came through the mind and the heart and the pen of that Palmyra farm boy. And that's marvelous to me. So the mistakes, the hiccups, the shadows, the shortcomings, those are to be expected and we need to not set up straw men arguments that if those things exist in the restoration, that somehow the restoration isn't real.

I often think that when people say that, well, the church can't be true because of X. The only thing that's not true is the premise that they've set up. That's what's not true. For me personally, I like to see the Lord's hand working with regular people in regular life. I like to see their successes, their highlights. I also like to see the monotony, their midtones, their daily life, and I like to see their shadows and their failures. Not because I glory in them, but because I recognize them in myself, also. And as the Lord worked with

them and worked with the church, and you see the church continuing on this upward path, this ongoing restoration, he works with me, and he works with you. And back to Bushman's quote, a religion that works has to be taken very seriously. And for me, this faith works. And so that's just one of the many, many reasons why I believe and love the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Beautiful. That's beautifully said. So wonderful. Just so wonderful. Dr. Sweat, we just can't thank you enough for your time. And just for our listeners, say, they should know that Dr. Sweat is also bishopswet. And so getting his time is very valuable, because we know he picked up a lot of a little bit of work there with that calling, right? Just a bit. Just to a little bit. Some administrative too. That's right. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit.

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Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to a bit. Just to and met and hugged and comforted this widow and then I went and met with someone else to help work with them through a problem and and and I don't think I would have done any of that regardless of the calling, by the way, the calling facilitates it, which I appreciate. Even if I didn't have the calling, I would do it. But if I didn't have the restoration, I'm not sure I would. Yeah, I might have stayed so insular and so self-centric. And it's again, back to a fall of me, but the restoration has tried to bring out a better version of me through things like callings and service and it's teaching. So, you know, I think what if we're all sitting home

being spiritual but not religious? I mean, look what the gospel has asked me to do as a bishop and required. I just love how you said that. And probably things I might not have done, but it's changed me and helped me. And if I were sitting in my recliner being spiritual but not religious, this is a religion that works. Yeah. It reminds me, John, of something you said earlier.

I can't remember when, but you said, you know, as the Holy Ghost points to us to repent, he's, oh, it's elder Maxwell also beckoning us to higher planes Right, let me tell you exactly. It's it's When conscience calls to us from the next ridge it is not solely to school but also to beckon That's elder Maxwell. I always loved to watch my hands watch watch my hand. It's gonna change midquot It's love to watch my hands watch watch my hand. It's going to change midquo out. Going back and that feels like what Tony just said there is is the restoration

backends me to higher places. President Iring said once that when you fill the spirit, don't be surprised if it's accompanied by what you feel is a rebuke. And so sometimes you get the I I got to do better, but but you feel a little bit of both. You're like, yeah, I'm convicted, but I'm excited. I'm gonna try a little harder, you know? Yeah. And that's what I'm feeling right now.

I can tell when we've been spiritually uplifted and identified as I just think to myself, I'm gonna do better. I'm gonna do better today. I'm gonna be a better Hyundai Sonata. Well, my friends, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for your support of the podcast. We want to thank our producers, Steven Shannon Swanson, and we want to thank our listeners.

You wonderful people. Thank you for listening. And we hope you'll join us on our next episode of Follow Him.