Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 3-5 Part 2 • Dr. Roberts Eaton • January 27-February 6 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

Professor Rob Eaton examines Doctrine and Covenants 4 and the Lord’s power given to those who  ask and serve others.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC205ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC205FRGerman: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC205DEPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC205PTSpanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC205ESYOUTUBEhttps://youtu.be/ame2rocgec4ALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTESfollowHIM website: https://www.followHIMpodcast.comFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTIMECODE00:00 - Part 2 - Dr. Rob Eaton00:08 D&C 5:11-28 - Martin needs to humble himself03:10 Witnesses and Undeniable04:00 D&C 5:7 - Intellectual evidence isn’t enough05:56 A What If Exercise8:37 Salvation dependent on valiant testimony10:45 D&C 5:34 - Lord prepares a way11:44 Oliver Cowdery’s backstory13:42 D&C 4:1 - Gathering Israel’s importance15:55 D&C 4:2 - Embark19:16 Football and doing things part way22:29 Anxiously engaged without formal assignment26:33 D&C 4:3 - Motives in God’s economy29:09 Remembering the message, not the messenger33:44 Seek to bless, not impress37:27 Serving with love as a teenager39:46 D&C 4:4 - Setting goals based on agency43:37 D&C 4 testifies of Joseph as a prophet of God45:12 D&C 4:5-6 - Who we are and why we serve47:39 Helping young missionaries50:25 Serving under protest52:07 How to serve as Mission Leaders56:09 Seek and expect miracles57:32 Asking and receiving miracles1:00:58 Professor Eaton shares his testimony of Jesus Christ and the Restoration1:05:48  End of Part 2 - Dr. Rob EatonThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsAmelia Kabwika : Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Welcome to part two with Dr. Rob Eaton, Doctrine and Covenants, sections three through five. I was reading this as a one-time extraordinary event, but eight months later, when Martin then goes to Harmony and now has an even more audacious ask, really, he's now saying, I'd like to see the plates. His wife's brought a fraud trial against Joseph, he'd like to see the plates, before he was just asking to borrow the manuscript for a while. On section five, verse 21, this is apparently an ongoing process for Joseph Smith that he's not yet completed eight months later. And similarly, Martin's made progress and is told conditionally he can be one of these three witnesses if he repents. So verses 11 through 13 and 18.

John, would you read those for us? So 11 through 13 and I'll read 18 in section 5 now. 11 through 13. Yeah. And in addition to your testimony, the testimony of three of my servants whom I shall call and ordain unto whom I will show these things, and they shall go forth with my words that are given through you. Yea, they shall know of a surety that these things are true, for from heaven will I declare

it unto them. I will give them power that they may behold and view these things as they are." And their testimony shall also go forth under the condemnation of this generation," that's verse 18, if they harden their hearts against them. But then before being able to do that, Martin's told he's got more humbling to do. In verse 24, he exalts himself and does not humble himself sufficiently before me, but if he will bow down before me and humble himself in mighty prayer and faith in the sincerity of his heart then will I grant unto him a view of the things he

desires which he desires to see and oh what a view he gets and then verse 28 and now except he humble himself and this is back to what Hank was just saying and acknowledge unto me the things that he has done which are wrong. So he couldn't say, yeah, but I'm the victim here. Look, I was stuck in this terrible situation. In fact, both Martin and Joseph could have said, I'm the victim here. But the Lord's saying you need to own up, you need to acknowledge what you did that was wrong. You coveted to do something, you broke that covenant. And then continuing in verse 28, and covenant with me that he will keep my commandments and exercise faith in me. Behold, I say to him, he shall have no such views. As you're talking, I keep replaying through my mind this scene from the movie

Witnesses. They did such a good job of showing this scene, they're all in there waiting to eat, and Martin Harris is outside by the fence like you described, and he doesn't want to come in, and the way they portrayed that I thought was really, really well done. You can get witnesses on Living Scriptures, I think it's on Amazon Prime too, and you can watch that depiction of that moment where Martin comes in to eat and finally tells them, I've lost my soul, I've lost the manuscript. I watched Witnesses in preparation for this, thoroughly enjoyed it and thought provoking. I also had previously listened just coincidentally to Susan East Black's book, Undeniable, a wonderful concise overview of the process of the three witnesses and the lives of each of them.

I learned things I didn't know, very well done. As we focus on their lives, as everyone knows, it's interesting that each of the three leaves the church and yet remains true to their testimony in the Book of Mormon. Then Elder Oaks in his talk, the witness said, all three went their separate ways with no common interest to support a collusive effort, yet to the end of their lives, periods ranging from 12 to 50 years after their excommunications, not one of these witnesses deviated from his published testimony or said anything that cast any shadow on its truthfulness. We know that intellectual evidence alone is not going to be enough to change people's

minds. In fact, in verse seven of section five, the Lord tells him, Joseph, if he showed people the plates themselves, it wouldn't convince the hard-hearted. And we know from 1 Corinthians chapter two, Paul's marvelous teachings that it's only through the spirit that we gain a lasting witness of spiritual truths. Elder Bednar said, a witness of truth by the power of the Holy Ghost that we invite into our soul produces a spiritual knowledge and illumination, a conviction more sure, more powerful, and more enduring than can be

received through seeing, hearing, touching, or rational argument alone. Sort of like spiritual oatmeal, stuff that stays with you is that conviction born of the Spirit. But that said, the Lord sees the witnesses' testimonies as playing a role, maybe giving people an intellectual reason to pause and take this story seriously and then undertake the work that will be necessary for them to eventually receive that spiritual witness because he continues to have us publish the testimonies of the three and eight witnesses with the Book of Mormon wherever it's published. We're looking back a couple of hundred years but think about the communities right then with those witnesses, the three and

the eight, that guy that lives down the street, how much more powerful that could be that when they're right there and they're among you in your neighborhood I've always thought about at the time what that meant for them. I love the phrase that Alma uses if you will give place. Love those two words and I feel like maybe read these witnesses of the three and of the eight, read how they're different. I'm sure we'll be talking more about that. And if that can allow you to give place, to go from, I doubt it to, I wonder. Oh, that little step from, I doubt to, I wonder,

oh, can give place. To anyone listening who's not yet studied the Book of Mormon and taken it seriously, we would extend that invitation. Do this what if exercise. Just open your mind and heart enough to contemplate the possibility that there were actually plates. And then study the Book of Mormon seriously.

And ask yourself, which seems more likely that the young Joseph Smith with so limited education in such a short period of time about 66 working days produced this extraordinary work and lied about how he did it. Or that you're actually reading the words of Nephi and Jacob, Mormon and Alma and Moroni. See which feels more plausible to you and then take that answer up the mountain, if you will, to the Lord and ask that I get it right. And when you ask in faith, in real intent, through the power of the Holy Ghost, Moroni promises us, you can come to know the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.

Even as Martin learned it for himself, even though we won't get the angels, we'll know through the Spirit just as surely of its truthfulness. John, do you remember our episode with Joe Spencer on Sega Nephi 27? It can't be about the book. It has to be about the words of the book. So good. We'll link that in our show notes, too. There's a lot of extras you could go to this week, but that episode with Dr. Spencer really changed the way I see, hey, why can't we show the plates to everybody?

Because it's not about the book. It's about the words of the book. The plates might convince you, but the words convert you. And speaking of the designs of God long term, right? Who is 2nd Nephi 27 quoting Isaiah, who saw a book that was sealed and that would be spoken upon the housetops. So John, you've already talked some about the rest of the story with Martin Harris's life, but let me just kind of walk through that quickly. He and Joseph respond again well to some pretty stern rebukes from the Lord and that allows Martin to get this privilege three months later to become one of the three witnesses and again I love how that's depicted in the film, witnesses. August 1829 he mortgages

his farm which he later has to sell to finance the publication of the Book of Mormon. In June 1830 he and his wife separate never reuniting. If Martin fears he might lose his wife, it turns out it's a well-placed fear. He makes an extraordinary sacrifice to be true to what God's asked him to do here at the cost of his marriage. In 1835, he and two other witnesses get to select and ordain the men who eventually become the quorum of the Twelve Apostles. But in 1837, he has a falling out with Joseph over the failure of the Kirtland Safety Society, and he's excommunicated.

And then he bounces from the Shakers to the Strangites to the Church of Christ. He serves as the caretaker of the Kirtland Temple for years. Something else we should be indebted to him for. And then finally, after multiple invitations in 1870, he joins the saints again in Utah, is baptized again, dies in 1875, and like the other two witnesses, his dying words are literally his testimony of the Book of Mormon. It's as if they feel their salvation hinges on being valiant witnesses. Elder Cook has suggested that maybe ours does too, not in the Book of Mormon, but in terms of being witnesses of Christ. He taught in all things we should remember that being valiant in

the testimony of Jesus, quoting Doctrine and Covenants 76 verse 19, is the great dividing test between the celestial and terrestrial kingdoms. We want to be found on the celestial side of that divide. God has high expectations for all of his servants, but especially those he trusts with sacred responsibilities. Unfortunately, he's not just just, but he's also merciful. So when we sin, if we then repents and receive divine correction, well, he blesses us with second and third chances and even greater opportunities. And the Savior invites all of us who follow him to stand like Joseph as witnesses, to stand as witnesses of Christ and his atoning sacrifice and his teachings of Heavenly Father

and his plan and his mercy of the restoration and of living prophets. It's a privilege as it was for Martin Harris to stand as a witness of the Book of Mormon for all of us who follow Jesus Christ to stand as his witnesses. But doing that requires us to care more about what God thinks of us than what anyone else thinks of us. to care more about what God thinks of us than what anyone else thinks of us. Rob, one thing I find interesting at the end of section five is the Lord says in verse 34, yes, we're going to halt here for a portion of time. I will provide means whereby you can accomplish the thing which I've commanded thee. The Lord has already put the process with Oliver Cowdery in place. I have another way we're going to do this.

Yes, you send and don't worry, I will provide ways for my work to go forward. It's going to be okay. Will Barron You know, when you think of that, along with John talking about how Isaiah was inspired centuries earlier to do this, Mormon was inspired to translate and include first and second Nephi for a wise purpose. He knew not. It reminds me of something President Eyring said often when I interviewed him for his biography. God plays infinite dimensional chess. We see that going on here. It's almost like the designs of God can't be frustrated or something. of God can't be frustrated or something.

So speaking of Oliver Cowdery, it's interesting to know his backstory and how he ends up in Harmony, Pennsylvania, literally at the prophet's doorstep. Joseph Smith Sr., who is an interesting character in church history. Let's just say his resume looks quite different than that of the current members of the first presidency in Quorum of the Twelve.

He was not a world-class heart surgeon or jurist or academic leader. He struggled to make ends meet as a farmer. And yet, I love him then as sort of a placeholder for all of us in the church as he receives the revelation that becomes Section 4. He's got a question about what his role is in whatever it is that's unfolding. In February of 1828, he travels over 120 miles to Harmony to see his son and to get the Lord's direction. Now at the time, he and his wife had a border in their home who'd been peppering them with questions about Joseph and the plates. And frankly, it had not gone well when they talked publicly about those things in the past,

and they were understandably gun shy. They didn't give him a lot of information. But after receiving the revelation that we now know as section four, Joseph Smith Sr. returns home and opens up. And apparently he and Lucy open up and testify so effectively that this young border gets a spiritual witness of his own so strong that it impels him to make that trip of over 120 miles to Harmony, Pennsylvania and that is how Oliver Cowdery ends up on Joseph's store. Joseph Smith Sr. then becomes in effect one of this dispensation's first member missionaries. And that's one of the main points I want to make with this section is while it is marvelous for

full-time missionaries, it's great for all of us sharing the gospel. Frankly, it's a charter for any of us who want to serve in the kingdom of God. Like you said, this was not a missionary section originally. There is no church. There is no missionary service. Yeah, there were no callings, let alone name tags. The church has not yet been organized. And so I think this is a sweet but important example of how we get more out of this text, more out of this revelation, when we understand its backstory. This was not just something delivered to missionaries in the MTC, though it is certainly relevant for them.

Robert, can we go verse by verse? Let's do it. John, would you start with reading verse one? Absolutely. Now, behold, a marvelous work is about to come forth among the children of men." President Nelson has taught there is nothing happening on this earth right now that isn't more important than that, referring to the gathering of Israel on both sides of the veil. There is nothing of greater consequence, absolutely nothing. My wife and I love serving as mission leaders, but it's exhausting. Someone asked us

like just a few days after we'd gotten home, do you miss it? And I thought, have you run a marathon? You know, like five minutes, 10 minutes afterwards, you're not eager to go run the marathon again, even though you're so glad you did it. But if you gave it your all, you're emotionally spent. Sometimes even in the middle of it, I found myself maybe too consumed by the most challenging aspects of the call. But one Sunday, I had just a sweet day where I got to use a little bit of my German. I got to connect with a woman whose husband was not yet a member, but had faithfully come to church for years. By the way, whose baptism we attended seven years after that Sunday. Wow. It was a long time. I was speaking in sacrament.

I felt blessed and guided by the Spirit. And the Spirit whispered to me, this was just a few months past the halfway point of our mission, this is your dream calling. What are you whining about? Lean into the good parts. And that was really helpful, transformative counsel for me to focus on the joy that comes from serving in God's kingdom and not focus on maybe the most difficult and emotionally challenging aspects of the call. Yeah, we get tired in the work because we're mortals, but we don't have to get tired of the work. Verse two, let me read the first part of it.

We'll pause there because I want to hear what John has to say about embarking. Therefore, oh ye that embark in the service of God. John, the reason you know so much about this verse is because you wrote a great talk. I've listened to it many times on, wasn't it the youth theme four years ago? Yeah, and that's when I discovered just some interesting stuff. First of all, embark, like I said, only appears once in the entire standard works. You might find it in a synopsis, the italicized text before chapter, but in the actual text of the scriptures one time. When I looked it up on dictionary.com, it said something like, to board a ship or aircraft or vehicle as for a journey.

And I laughed out loud because I thought you can't sort of embark. If you sort of get on an airplane and it leaves this can cause great physical discomfort. You can't sort of get on a ship and leave. It kind of has that both feet in type feeling to it. If you're gonna embark, embark and when you keep going see that you serve him with all your heart, might, mind, and strength. I mean, this sounds like get both feet in, that you may stand blameless before God at the last day. John, I've heard this talk many times. I want everybody to hear about halfway Harv. Okay.

There were a couple of boys, they were neighbors, named Marvin and Harvey, or Marvin Harve, and Marvin went to bed one night, got a full night's sleep, got up, got showered, got fully dressed, had a full breakfast, said to his mom, I love you with all my heart, and went off to school, where he went to all of his classes, had a full lunch, went to football practice afterwards, where he was a fullback, came home, had a full dinner, read his scriptures and went to sleep. Now his neighbor Harvey, his friends called him halfway Harv because he seemed to do everything halfway. He got up one morning, still kind of half asleep after half a night's sleep, got half dressed, think about that, okay that's

long enough, made half his breakfast, said to his mom, I love you with half my heart, we don't know how that turned out, he went halfway to the bus stop, he said to the bus driver, can't you meet me halfway? And then he went to half of his classes, he had half of his lunch, he went to football practice afterwards where he was a halfback, and then he went halfway home, ate half his dinner, read half his scripture, said half a prayer, and fell half asleep. Now if you think that's a strange story, you don't know the half his dinner, read half his scripture, said half a prayer, and fell half asleep. Now, if you think that's a strange story, you don't know the half of it. You should meet his auntie almost.

We went to see her once, but we only got halfway there. So anyway, I want to read the scripture the way halfway Harv might read it. Therefore, oh ye that halfway embark in the service of God, see that ye serve him with half your heart, half your might, half your mind, and half your strength. Here's the scary part. That ye may stand half blameless before God at the last day. You read it that way, it's just like, eww, isn't it? Because at first it sounds kind of overwhelming. All your heart might minus strength, but when you read it that halfway part, you could kind of go, yeah, I don't want to do that either. We don't want to be halfway half. So we want to embark.

You know, John, your half back and full back thing reminds me of seventh grade football. I'm a small guy. I was the smallest guy on the seventh grade football team. We didn't have enough seventh graders, so we scrimmaged with the eighth graders. And at that time of life when people were growing, the eighth graders were bigger. And the biggest eighth grader was Eugene Tufts. And we did this drill where we lined up in single file lines and squared off with the guy at the head of each line, about 10 feet away from each other. They didn't even designate one line as offense and one as defense. They just said, ready, set, you got down in your stance.

They blew the whistle and you ran into each other. But that's what we did. So we were lining up to run into each other. As I'm in the line, I've got one thought, which is anybody but Eugene Tufts. Please not Eugene Tufts. He was the biggest, strongest eighth grader. I get up there, sure enough, it's Eugene. So I started thinking this through in my seventh grade mind,

and I think maybe if I run at kind of half speed, it won't hurt as much. Oh. I don't understand the laws of physics, but it hurt both on the impact with Eugene, and then after I went through the air, the impact on my backside as I hit the ground. And then to rub salt in the wound,

the coach comes, stands over me, and yells at me and makes me run a lap. I'm thinking, Eugene, hurt me. Why are you yelling at him? Why are you yelling at me? But he was yelling at me, not because I wasn't big enough or strong enough, but because I wasn't big enough or strong enough, but because I wasn't brave enough, because I went halfway in.

In fact, I learned a strange principle and I don't know the physics of it, but at least on defense, no, even on offense. When you initiated the contact, it hurt less. When I went all in as a football player, it was more enjoyable and the same was true for our full-time missionaries. Some, not many in our mission and it didn't last very long, they changed quickly. But some seemed to have the goal of doing as little work as possible without getting in trouble. And their missions actually

ended up being more painful for them during that period than once they embarked and went all in and said, I'm going to serve God with everything I've got. There's far more joy and far greater blessings. In fact, if I were to chart out blessings in effort, you might be tempted to think it's a straight line graph that if you're 75% obedient, you get 75% of the blessings. And this is not doctrine. This is just my own take and my own experience. But I think it will be a curved graph where a disproportionate number of God's blessings come

as we approach that end of the spectrum. Not where we're perfect, but where we go all in, where we strive to serve Him with all our heart, mind, and strength. There are an inordinate number of blessings that come to us once we really do that. I know this doesn't apply only to full-time missionaries, but that is what I think of because I remember it seems like those that were able to get both feet in the mission field, actually it was easier when they went home to say, what's next, than if you were only halfway there.

And if you're listening and you're thinking, I'm halfway here, thou art still chosen. Just get your other foot in, be a fullback. Again, Joseph Smith Sr. gets this counsel and no calling. Now, I love callings. They're a distinctively powerful feature of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They give us focus and cause us to stretch and do good and become good in ways we otherwise would not. I would never voluntarily have gone on a camp out with 12 and 13 year olds without a calling that led me to do that. And I would never have developed some of the patience I hope I've developed along the way and the love actually for those young men that I did. Maybe one danger in the church culturally of callings is that we can become too dependent upon

them for our spiritual growth. And that's our spiritual growth might just track our calling. So if it's a really soul-stretching, time-consuming calling, we get growth. But when we're released, then we sort of retire and don't do much. The Savior asks his followers to be anxiously engaged in a good cause, even without formal assignments. My father taught journalism for his career at Green River Community College, and in the summer sometimes he worked as a reporter, and at least on one occasion he worked as a freelance reporter. So that meant he got no salary. He had to go find stories on his own rather than just doing what the editor assigned him to do, and then he would sell those stories to a newspaper. My wife and I had talked with making this transition from high level of scaffolding that full-time missionaries have to

very little scaffolding. The churches help provide more, and I'm so grateful for it, for those young men and young women as they return home. But we talked about them continuing to make the cause of Christ their cause and finding ways to engage in that, whether or not they had callings that required them to do so. So when we got home, we focused on freelancing for God. And we've strived to pray daily for opportunities to be instruments in the hands of the Lord, regardless of what calling we had. during a period where I've had no calling and served as a Sunday school teacher, a deacons quorum advisor, a stake president,

then no calling, and a councilor and an elders quorum president, there's been a remarkable consistency in the number of opportunities I've had to serve God. Even when I've had some of the most time consuming callings, some of the most spiritually rewarding moments in my week have come from things that were unrelated to the calling as I've strived to embark in whole-soul service of God. There's a woman in our ward who's such a good disciple she won't let me use her name. She's over 70, her husband is in the last stages,

later stages of Parkinson's disease. He's in a wheelchair, He can't say much. She pushes him on a walk in that wheelchair, snow or rain or sun. Last Saturday, that was a four-mile walk. She showed me the map as we walked together to church. She serves him in remarkable ways. She has no calling. And as she walks the ward, she also does another walk alone, she stops and talks. And I swear she knows, loves, and cares about more people in the ward than anybody but the bishop and maybe even more than him. She knows everyone, a youth lover, everybody loves her. And she just goes about doing good. Second to last ministering visit to her, she was asking me to show her she was having some problems getting a referral submitted.

So I'm focused on the technology, helping her get her missionary referral submitted. And then I finally asked her, wait, what? You have a referral for the missionaries? How's that? And she says, oh yeah, we've got this home health worker who comes in and we're getting Richard dressed on Saturday for the Saturday session of general conference, getting him dressed in a white shirt and tie. And she was asking why we dress him up. So I told her, she just naturally shared the gospel, not because she was supposed to or

had to but because she wanted to, because she has embarked in wholehearted service of God. I honestly think she does as much good as anyone in our ward boundaries and she does it even though she has no calling requiring her to do so. She's got both feet in. Both feet in for sure. Well let's go to verse 3. John would you read that for us? Therefore if ye have desires to serve God he are called to the work. In God's economy, motives matter a lot. Why do you think that is? Why does it matter to God? Why you serve a mission as long as you serve a mission?

Why you show up at the Ward Service Project as long as you do? Why you minister as long as you're there? Why do you think God cares so much about what it is that drives us. Because here he talks about having the desires to serve, and in verse five he talks about doing it with an eye single to the glory of God. One way that it's been put is it's not just what we do, it's why we do what we do. There's some motives that aren't so good, out of fear of punishment, to be seen of men,

things like that. And then I guess it's getting to that motive in verse five of an I single to the glory of God. That's probably kind of a process. Pretty much describes the journey of almost every missionary we had serving in our mission as mission leaders. We welcomed them. We were grateful, but they kind of moved through the whole spectrum of reasons we serve that President Oaks talked about in his very first talk as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. He said in that talk, service with all of our heart and mind is a high challenge for

all of us. Such service must be free of selfish ambition. It must be motivated only by the pure love of Christ. But then this merciful kicker, perhaps none of us serves in every capacity all the time for only a single reason. Since we are imperfect beings, most of us probably serve for a combination of reasons, and the combinations may be different from time to time as we grow spiritually. But we should all strive to serve for the reasons that are highest and best. Imagine, well, I'm a ministering brother, but I'm not going to do anything until my motives are pure. You could stagnate. It's better to go even if your motives aren't perfect than to not go at all,

wouldn't you say? Yeah, that's been true for me. That's true for my missionaries. So you get up and you serve no matter how imperfect your reasons, but then you strive to move up and to have pure motives. Hank, I was so impressed with what you said as we talked before we began. You reminding us about the very real needs of listeners. I think for any of us, but especially those of us who engage in full-time service of the Lord, or who are blessed to be professional teachers of religion in the church, or who are blessed to be professional teachers of religion in the church, there can be a temptation to make it about us. I remember hearing a fellow institute teacher say,

I bristle when I hear students mention my name in the closing prayer, because I don't want them to remember me. I want them to remember the message. And that stung because I thought I kind of like it. My natural man desires that. But wow, when I interviewed President Eyring, he has done this. I can't remember if we got this story in the book or not. I think we did. I think he was a counselor in the first presidency by then. Maybe not yet.

President Hinckley's there. Anyway, there's a copy of a book by President Eyring and President Hinckley picks it up, thumps it and says, vintage Hal Haring, vintage Hal Haring. I go home and write in my journal that President Hinkley says that was vintage Rob Eaton. I'm thrilled with that compliment. President Haring is troubled by that compliment and talks with me about it for 10 or 15 minutes, trying to find the words about to describe

why he was frustrated with it. But it was because he didn't want someone to come away remembering him. He wanted someone to come away remembering what he had taught. I asked him once, I think I've got it figured out. You would rather have someone say, this was a great talk, I can't remember who said it, than to say, you gave a great talk, I can't remember what you said.

And he sort of nodded in agreement and said, no, even better is that they go do something as a result of my talk and can't remember that I'm the one that said it. For all of us engaging in full-time service, it's a process and not an event, but of striving to move up the spectrum motivation so that we eventually serve out of love of God and for His glory, not for our own. If you're a young missionary, you've been competing to get into college, to get into a major, or later in life to get into graduate school. Life is competitive. And even later in life, you compete for the honors of men, you compete for raises, for promotions.

God asks us to undergo a huge paradigm shift here, to set aside building resumes and focus on building the kingdom and building up other people when we embark in His service. I bet both of you have dealt with this, your students coming to you as return missionaries and going, I just feel like this is so selfish. I'm working on my classes and my degree and my major and I feel so self-absorbed right now. I don't know, there's a little bit of, well, you got to sharpen the saw. You want to become an instrument in the Lord's hands and this education, it's enter to learn, go forth to serve type of a thing. How do you guys answer that? I usually say that same thing that you said, which is, look, you're just trying to become a better instrument.

And yeah, you got to tune the instruments, got to be made. I also tell them if I could go back to my college years, I would worry just a little bit less about getting into the very best law school I could and a little bit more about serving in the moment, about praying for opportunities to be an instrument in the Lord's hands. We had a roommate, Brad DeHara, a wonderful guy. Somehow he found the time in the summer, spring or summer term, when they put on the Special Olympics in Provo, to host a young man who came and lived with us. And we had him for dinner, it was great. But I remember thinking, wow, how has Brad found the time to do this?

I think if even in that season of life, students, while recognizing that preparing for a career and learning as much as they can is part of what God wants them to do, that he's not asking them to put serving others on a shelf. And if they will instead leaning to an assignment to minister to others who might have great needs right then that they'll set a great pattern

for their lives. In fact, all of us will have to balance this throughout our lives, these competing needs to decide. But when our overarching purpose is the cause of Christ, we approach life differently than if our overarching purpose is to gain all the praise of the world that we can. Trimidji Madsen told the story. I loved President Hinckley. He was watching a young man speak, young adults, and the young man felt he was a really strong speaker, a really great teacher.

So he went up to the pulpit full of confidence and really flopped. Just did not go well. He came down from the pulpit really humbled and apparently President Hinckley said to him, well, if you would have gone up the way you came down, you would have come down the way you went up. Right, so. Rob, you mentioned what we talked about before.

It really was the result of working with incredible teachers for a long time, and then me reflecting on lessons I had taught or talks I had given, and I thought, why did that work? And then giving another one saying, why didn't that work? And I came to the conclusion that often, very often, it's my lesson is better when I seek to bless and not impress. If that's my focus, how can I bless these people, not impress these people? And when I get those flopped, when I forget and I thought I'm going to impress some people, I end up neither impressing nor blessing. I think that's true in part because people can read us.

We are less effective instruments in God's hands if people sense we're doing this for us and not for them. President Nelson has said the most effective missionaries always act out of love. Love is the life of good missionary work. I'm sure that's true for ministering elders and sisters and primary and Sunday school teachers that when we serve because we love we do things differently. My wife's love language is getting things done, not just verbal affirmation. So for Mother's Day and her birthday we will go do Project Day on the close of Saturday to it. Last month on her birthday we helped clean

the church, we pulled all the plants out of our little garden. And what I found is that doing them because I want to, not because I have to, doing them out of love for my wife transforms my service and makes it more enjoyable, makes it more effective. Whether it's cleaning the church, ministering, sharing the gospel, or attending the temple, when we do things for the Savior out of love for Him, it transforms our service. And it doesn't take any more time. I loved Bishop L. Todd Budge's talk in the October 2024 conference. He said, let me suggest that what may be needed is not necessarily more time, but more awareness of and focus on God during the times we already

set aside for Him. Here's one of those opportunities we got to be instruments in the Lord's hands. I was back visiting Rexburg going on a morning workout with my buddy, my dear friend Todd Hammond. We're driving down the hill and we see a BYU Idaho student with a full set of luggage rolling it down the hill. And we kind of look at each other. Todd's got a pickup and we pull over and offer the student a ride. He's headed back to

Mexico and he's headed actually to a Graham bus stop that's like a mile away. So he's grateful that we throw the luggage in and we start talking to him. We ask him how old he is and what his plans are. We somehow sense that maybe a mission, a full-time mission, isn't in his plans. And so I say, you know, it so happens my buddy here was a mission president. Can he make a little pitch for you about how your life would be blessed by serving a full-time mission? So Todd gave this great pitch. And then I just added, I said, you know, here's one other reason to serve. Make it a thank you card to Jesus. Think about what Jesus Christ has done for you and one of the best ways you can show him your gratitude is to go share his gospel.

I don't know if he's going to serve a full-time mission or not, but he told us at least that he was now thinking about it much more than he had been before he got in our truck. It was a simple but wonderful opportunity the Lord gave us unrelated to callings that either of us had at the time. And I just connect that with the notion that when we do things for the Savior, it changes us. Yeah. And your motive was to help that young man, not to get another missionary in the field.

You know, wow, look what I did. It was, look, I really, really want you to be happy and have a blessed life. Here's what is the best way to go about it. And speaking of that, it will bless you and the notion that it's okay to start with lesser motives if they get us going. But when I was a young priest in a quorum with just three priests, a sister in the ward who had a son with a severe case of cerebral palsy, so he was wheelchair bound, and she was a single mother and then also had other foster children. She developed some back problems so she couldn't get him into the bathtub alone.

She had asked the bishop to ask for a couple of priests every Saturday night to help get Sammy in the tub. We show up the first night, 17-year-old boys, not clinically trained, and we got to take Sammy's clothes off. I think he got a bath once a week then there he is without any clothes on. We like try to get him to the bathtub touching him as little as possible. This is just way outside our comfort zone. We get him in the tub, we let her know, hey we got Sammy in the tub and she says, yeah just go ahead give him a bath I'm cooking dinner. And we're like, what? Give him a bath? What? And so we did it. And to be honest, we did it out of duty. Because my dad, the bishop asked us

to, we knew we were supposed to. And I'm sure it didn't happen on a pivot so sudden as I remember it. But one time when we went, I'm giving him a bath, his hand comes down in the water hard and water splashes up in my face. And I look over at him and he's laughing. And I say, Sammy, did you just splash me? And he laughs. We learn more about his condition, we learned that his intelligence was not impaired, his muscles were. He would ask us to read. He didn't know the citation. We did. He wanted the chapter where Jesus heals the people in the Book of Mormon. So we read 3 Nephi 17 to him

multiple times. We came to see him differently. I think we came to see him a little more like God sees him. Years later, when I'd moved away from Washington and I went back to visit Sammy in a home, it wasn't because I was supposed to. It was because I wanted to. I had come to love him. My motives had changed over time and that made all the difference. I had been transformed by my service. That's wonderful, Rob. Well, let's go to verse four. John, can you do the honors again? Absolutely. For behold, the field is white, all ready to harvest. And lo, he that thrusteth in his sickle with his might, the same layeth up in store that he perisheth not, but bringeth salvation to his soul." Let me just say this about this verse.

In the aggregate, it's absolutely true that the church has seen astronomical growth, but not every missionary in every season of their mission will see the kind of success they would like to in terms of baptism. For that matter, not every elders' quorum presidency or Relief Society presidency or young men or young women's leader. And if we come to define ourselves and our success by the choices others make, we can get pretty hard on ourselves. So I love what Preach My Gospel says about this in the new edition, which is marvelous.

I loved the original edition of Preach My Gospel so much that I was shocked at how much more I love the new edition. This is what we read. Your success as a missionary is determined primarily by your desire and commitment to find, teach, baptize, and confirm converts and to help them become faithful disciples of Christ and members of his church. Your success is not determined by how many people you teach or help to bring to baptism, nor is it determined by holding leadership positions. Your success does not depend on how others choose to respond to you, to your invitations or to your sincere acts of kindness.

People have agency to choose whether to accept the gospel message or not. Your responsibility is to teach clearly and powerfully so they can make an informed choice. And then further, remain focused on your commitment to Christ and your missionary purpose, not the outward results. The results often are not evident immediately. At the same time, keep your expectations high regardless of the challenges you face. High expectations will increase your effectiveness, your desire, and your ability to follow the Spirit. I think that's great counsel for any of us embarking in the service of God.

I had two daughters who served full-time missions where they didn't get to see a lot of baptisms. In fact, one of them attended a baptism on a Saturday before coming home on a Tuesday, and it was the first baptism she had attended of someone she'd helped teach. And yet, by this definition, she may be one of the best missionaries in the church because she remained absolutely committed and worked with faith and energy and love her whole mission. She thought, I'm still, I'm praying I want to help bring people unto Christ through faith, repentance, and baptism. She never lost sight of that, never gave up on it. By that measure she was extraordinarily

successful. I think we can help with this a little bit. Sometimes we accidentally compound the problem if we sing the praises of people based on the number of baptisms they have. So let's say child number one goes to a place where lots of people get baptized and you're excited about that, maybe even boasting about it to others, and then child two or three goes somewhere else and they've heard you define success in that way and now they begin excited about that, maybe even boasting about it to others. And then child two or three go somewhere else. And they've heard you define success in that way. And now they begin to think maybe I'm the problem and I'm not successful like this older sibling. President Eyring encouraged mission leaders to be careful in how we praise missionaries. I think all of us can be careful in how we praise

success in building the kingdom of God. Oh, that's great. John, I know this is important to you, setting goals based on your agency. Hank, should I set a goal that my favorite college football team will win games? Do I have anything to do with that goal's outcome? No, and in the same way,

I love what President Oaks has said, a missionary's goal should be based on what he's going to do or what she's going to do, not on what others will do. And that's just what you read to us right there, Rob. I'm just realizing this section of the Doctrine and Covenants, early, early in Joseph Smith's prophetic mantle, seven verses, yet a lifetime of study. How long would it take you to take each word? How long could you study faith, hope, charity, virtue, temperance, patience? What does that tell you about all of these sections the doctrine covenant we're going to look at? What does that tell you about Joseph Smith? What does that tell you about all of these sections the Doctrine and Covenants were going to look at? What does that tell you about Joseph Smith?

What does that tell you about the Lord? If someone is out there going, I sure wonder if Joseph Smith is a prophet. This is one small section of the Doctrine and Covenants in how many chapters of the Book of Mormon? Sections of the Doctrine and Covenants, the pearl of great price. This to me of the Doctrine and Covenants, the pearl of great price. This to me, the fact that I can take section four of the Doctrine and Covenants

and literally spend hours, hours, weeks, months on it tells me that this is not of man. I don't know if you ever go back to a song or a movie from your childhood that you thought was great and listen to it again or watch it again and think that just didn't hold up very well. But the Beatles hold up well over time. I tell you, the Book of Mormon, section four, these things hold up extraordinarily well. Again, if you think Joseph Smith is a fraud, you think he's a genius because this is so rich

with wise divine counsel. I think it was Hugh Nibley who said, these things will wear you out long before you wear them out. And by the way, verses five and six, you'll notice are much more about who we are and why we serve than tactics we should use. And there's a role for tactics, but this section,

also how comforting to this fairly unsuccessful farmer, Joseph Smith Sr., who's had none of the formal training that people call to the ministry typically get, as none of the kinds of secular accomplishments that he might be tempted to rest on. Instead, God takes him as he is, helps him become who he needs to become, and asks him to focus on becoming this powerful instrument in his hands by developing these attributes of Christ. Not tactics, not strategies, attributes. And like you said, Rob, there is a place for strategy. You think of Ammon thinking, okay, how can I best go about this? But the strategy isn't going to work if the attributes aren't there.

Hank, I have in my margin, I don't know if this is from four years ago, but here's this list in verse five, faith, hope, charity, love, and I single to the glory of God, qualify him for the work and I have in my margin, not a bank account. Joseph Smith Sr. didn't have one Does as after four years ago? I don't know I didn't I'm writing it now It is because I listen to the podcast and remember you saying you'd written that in your margin by the way John I love how you model being a lifelong learner that relates to knowledge in verse 6 But you're so well informed and wise already

But both of you, your willingness to learn from your guests models how we should all become lifelong learners. No, this is our favorite thing. Back to this why we serve and who we become, Preach My Gospel says just as vital as what you do is who you are and who you are becoming. I remember one couple who got baptized while we were mission leaders saying about the wonderful sisters who taught them that as they approached their house and talked with them, they said, we want some of this God juice, whatever it is they're drinking. We want that.

It was who they were that caught these people's attention and not how well they knew things. So, we want to work to develop those skills, it's important that in all our efforts to go about doing good, we don't lose sight of striving to become good. With the help of the Savior and His atoning sacrifice, this is a process of shaping us as well as helping others. Rob, can I ask you a question? The young people that go out

and serve these full-time missions, these 18-year-old, 19, 20, 21 year olds, how can we as members of the church best help them? These are fragile good kids who are trying. You know as we think about the motives for serving, serving God with an eye single to his glory, it's interesting in sharing the gospel or other aspects of the church that sometimes, sometimes in our righteous zeal, we can become overzealous. If we're not careful, we can become more concerned about meeting statistical goals that we've set and how that might impress other people. A young missionary can be forgiven if you've been working

on your batting average and your GPA and all these numerical things. The number of baptisms you get may seem the next logical step in that sequence and we've got God asks us to shift gears and serve for different reasons. Incidentally, I think the likelihood that those who join the church will come to stay increases when missionaries and their leaders serve out of pure motives, not trying to get baptisms for themselves. In fact, the missionaries who serve with the right motives when people aren't getting baptized are concerned not because the missionary is not baptizing but because people aren't making a covenant that could lead to

exaltation for them. They're more concerned about the welfare of others than their own personal success. I just think for all of us as leaders in the kingdom that when we think celestial, for our missionaries, for those they're serving or any other context, we tend to connect things to the savior. We do more to help people serve out of the right reasons and those have longer lasting results. We used to do a little exercise with our new missionaries and their trainers. We'd call it missionary rule boggle and say, okay, 90 seconds, come up with all the commandments or rules you can think of that missionaries are supposed to keep go. And then we would share them on the board, write them all down and say,

look, we agree with all these. We want you to get up on time and stay with your companion and do all these things. But we don't yet have the two most important rules in this mission on the board. Will you go with us to Matthew 22, verses 36 to 40? In this mission, the two most important rules are to love God with all your heart, mind, and strength, and the second is like unto it, to love his children. And the sooner you get to the point where you serve for those reasons, the more effective you'll be as a missionary and the happier you'll be.

If you came because you didn't wanna disappoint your mom, God bless you for coming. We still want you. But ask your trainers how they made this transition because all the people we've called as trainers, they're here now because they serve out of love for God. We can even help people facilitate that transition. I think I can share this story without the missionary's name. I had one missionary who was, it seemed to me like he was there under protest and I was going to call him on it and the spirit in an interview said, not yet. So I waited

for another interview or two and then finally I said, Elder, are you here under protest by chance? And he laughed and said, that's a good description of a lot of things I do. Yeah. I said, so why are you here? And he said, well, you know, my mom, couldn't disappoint my mom. And I said, well, God bless you for coming. You got three weeks. And he said, what?

I said, well, there's a, how old are you? And he said, I'm 18. I said, okay, you're a majority. You're a majority. You're an adult. We don't keep people here who don't want to be here. So you've got three weeks to decide. So three weeks in a day from now, you'll either be here.

And when someone asks why it's going to be because I want to be, or you'll be at home. And if you decide to go home, I'll do everything I can to talk you out of it because it'll be the biggest mistake you ever make, but you're going to own it." I didn't tell him I probably didn't have the authority to send him home just for that reason. And he's the only missionary I ever had that conversation with. My goal was not just to browbeat missionaries into browbeating people into getting baptized. My goal was to help change missionaries and have changed missionaries help change people for the long term, to have enduring conversions. And that may have led to fewer baptisms, but I hope some more conversions. And I think it's important to never lose sight of that. Turns out that missionary chose to stay.

It changed him and it changed his mission. And it changes us when we can get to the point where we serve for the highest and best reasons. Rob, not a lot of can get to the point where we serve for the highest and best reasons. Rob, not a lot of people get to serve as a mission leader. So I think it'd be kind of fun to let us into the heart of you and your wife as mission leaders. Is there even a temptation for a mission leader to fall into, oh, we need more baptisms. I'm the mission leader. This is reflection of me and who I am. Is that there at all? No, I'm joking. I can't speak for everybody else. But for me, it was. It's a natural man tendency to want to succeed in things and a natural man tendency to try to succeed by

the wrong metric. President Henry B. Eyring taught me on more than one occasion, choose the Lord's metric. And here the Lord's metric wasn't the number of baptisms, even though we clearly wanted to be focused on doing everything we could to help as many people as we could be baptized, but in the Lord's way. In the succinct instruction of President Dallin H. Hokes, we wanted to teach repentance and baptize converts. So there was some temptation to push and do

all that it took to get more people to be baptized and for those lesser reasons that we talked about in section three, for the praise of the world, to want to impress other people. I found there was a real need to be true to God and what he asked me to do and to do it in his way to not try to take any shortcuts to serve out of love for my missionaries helping them have lasting conversions and helping them help as many people as possible but have those lasting conversions. So I think for any of us whether we're mission leaders or

anything else to be aware of those temptations and be intentional about asking God for direction about how best to do his work in a way that pleases him. Yeah, and would you say, Rob, be gentle with those young missionaries? We love them, we look up to them, but they're new. We love our missionaries, and now more than a decade after we served with many of them, we look up to them, but they're new. We love our missionaries. And now more than a decade after we served with many of them, we still interact with them, go to a dinner or go to the temple with them and love them.

If you get focused on the short-term results, I think you miss out on some of those long-term blessings. Sometimes if we focus too much on those short-term results, people end up serving because they want to hit a goal or a quota rather than because they want to serve the Savior. Whether others perceive us as salespeople or servants of God hinges much more on our character than on our competence and much more than on our motives than on our moxie. Yeah. This rebuke came to me from the Spirit. I felt a little frustrated that people were coming down on us about numbers and not thanking us more for a job we didn't volunteer for. And then I was teaching in zone conference

and the Spirit whispered, you know that thing that bugs you? You're doing exactly that. I's about starting here by thanking them for coming on a mission? How about thanking them for serving in the rain? How about thanking them for persisting despite perpetual rejection? In fact, I saw a wise presiding member of the 70 who I think had gotten instruction from the Spirit, maybe somebody else or others, do the same thing with us as mission leaders. He stopped and thanked us for 30 minutes at the beginning of a retreat that we had. I learned more stuff during that retreat about how I could do better than maybe any of the other five retreats.

But he began by acknowledging what we were doing and the sacrifice we were making. And that's a lesson I'm still trying to take to heart whenever I'm speaking anywhere as any kind of leader. Thank the people first. First acknowledge the good that they're doing before I maybe lovingly share an idea or two about how we might be able to do things even better. That's beautiful, Rob. It really is. Thank you for asking about that. President Nelson said, seek and expect miracles. The Lord will bless you with miracles if you believe in Him, doubting nothing. Do the spiritual work to seek miracles. Prayerfully ask God to help you exercise that kind of faith.

Once I moved away from Seattle, where I had countless opportunities to share the gospel that kind of faith. Once I moved away from Seattle where I had countless opportunities to share the gospel that I didn't take advantage of and worked in a sea of people who had temple recommends, I realized I had to be more intentional any time I traveled about sharing the gospel. So I began praying earnestly for opportunities to share the gospel and as I did I've been blessed with someone on at least one leg of every trip with whom I've had an extraordinary gospel conversation.

So now I expect it. I seek and expect that miracle whenever I travel. Rob, the context you gave us, look, this is before a church. This is before really you can come and be baptized. We forget that. We think section four is all about, okay, I'm going to baptize people and have them join the church. There was no church.

This wasn't the Lord saying go baptize and build up the membership of the church, although that is important. This is not about tactics. This is about motives and attributes. And I've noticed, Hank, I've read verse five and six over and over just sitting there. I can't find salesmanship in there anywhere. It's not tactics. One last verse that I want to highlight is one that I've glossed over too often, and

I learned things just in preparing for this podcast. Ask and you shall receive, knock and it shall be opened unto you. President Packer says no message appears in scripture more times in more ways than ask and ye shall receive. And yet ironically, because we hear it so often, maybe we become kind of numb to it. I think asking is a critical thing to do in embarking in the service of God, both in praying for things and praying about things as we seek to increase our capacity to receive revelation. My wife has taught me that specificity is a hallmark of faith when we pray. I might pray, please bless those kids,

whatever their names are in our family. And she prays for each child and their spouse and their children. And I learned things in prayer about my family that I didn't know because my wife does and she prays very specifically. One time we were traveling to a family reunion. She and the kids went a day ahead of me.

I was a young lawyer and busy and couldn't come until a day later. Was in the pre-smartphone day. I landed in Nashville, was going to a state park in Kentucky. It was late at night, I had instructions, but they weren't your current Google map instructions. So I get on the freeway, I'm heading away from Nashville and it says, take exit 33. And I don't know how many miles it is. Well, I see the next exit is 99, 100, 101. So I do something I rarely do. I pull over and I look at a map. And as I look at the map,

I think, oh, there's a state line. I'm going to cross the state line. They'll start over. So I hop back on the freeway. Sure enough, that's what happens. I get there. My wife says, oh, honey, I'm so glad you found it all right. Did you have any trouble? And I'm like, honey, it's me. I'm good with directions, right? And she said, all my brothers got lost when I noticed the problem in the directions. I prayed that when you encountered that problem, you would pull over, look at a map and notice the state boundary. Specificity in prayer is a hallmark of faith. The more we ask and the better questions we ask, the more answers we get.

As a mission leader, that was one of my big takeaways. I fear I've left a lot of revelation on the table, as it were, in my life, that there's more revelation to be had. Ask and you shall receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, the Lord tells us. And President Nelson loves that verse because he's learned how to receive revelation and wants us to do the asking we need to do to receive more revelation especially as we embark in

the service of God. Learn to hear him. There's two steps before you ever open for the Strength of Youth guide. Learn to hear him have a heart of, I'm going to let God prevail. Instead of saying, okay, what's my minimums of behavior here? What will God permit? Instead learn to hear him let God prevail and then learn doctrines of discipleship instead of minimums of behavior. You can tell I've given this speech before, Hank. But don't skip those steps. And I love that President Nelson has emphasized,

learn to hear him. What a lifelong pursuit, but what a priority. There was a Craig Manning that talked so much about praying with specificity. Same thing, yeah. There's our lesson in 3rd Nephi. Double witnesses there. Rob, before we let you go, you've seen a lot.

You've been a mission leader. You've gone to law school. You've been a vice president at universities. You're a professor. You've done a lot. You and your family, your wife, you've experienced a lot. And yet here's this restoration, this young farmer and his wife, Joseph Smith, just getting started here. Here's the Book of Mormon that was written really on a farm, two farms. What are your feelings given all that incredible secular experience? What are your feelings for this restoration, this prophet? President Eyring once said, as I was interviewing him, if you gathered all the prophets who'd ever

lived in a room and Joseph walked in, they would stand up. That's the Joseph I know and love. I stand in awe of what he did as a translator, as a prophet, as a leader. I love Joseph. He never claimed to be perfect, and he wasn't perfect. In fact, he published his flaws and the Lord's rebukes for us in these sections. Yeah, canonized it. And yet he let God prevail in his life and shape him and change him and help us become. When I think of section four, I love what it teaches us about who we can become. I had one of our missionaries who said, President, I'm afraid of going home boring. I think he was worried that if he let go, if he jumped in with both feet, John, that God would turn him into some kind of spiritual automaton, some weird robot his friends wouldn't

like. But becoming like Christ doesn't require us to give up our personalities, just our sins. Sister Nealef Marriott in a beautiful talk about being yielded and still said, if we earnestly appeal to God, he takes us as we are and makes us more than we ever imagined. That's true for Joseph, it's true for us. He transforms us when we engage in whole-souled service President Eyring said and this is a new quote in this second edition of preach my gospel This is the Lord's Church. He called us and trusted us even in the weaknesses He knew we had he knew the trials we would face

By faithful service and through his atonement We can come to want what he wants and be what we must be to bless those we serve for him. As we serve him long enough and with diligence we will be changed. We can become ever more like him. I see that in Joseph's life. I strive for it in my own and I find when I lose myself in the service of God, he changes me in ways that I love, not in ways that I fear. Rob, I can't write fast enough. Becoming like Christ doesn't require us to give up our personalities, just our sins.

Oh my goodness. In fact, I'd become a more fun person. Rob, honestly, if we wanted to, how much longer could we talk about sections three, four and five? We could teach a semester long class on it and not run out of stuff. Yeah, it's inexhaustible.

Joseph F. Smith said that section four has enough material for a lifetime of study. Yeah, just one section. Yeah. I loved section. Yeah. I loved it. I am sure that our listeners out there, everyone listening is going, wow, wow, they have a new found love for these sections

and these stories. In fact, those of you who are listening, if you wanna come onto YouTube or come to our website, followhiem.co and leave Rob a comment and we'll make sure he gets those because it's fun to find out where you're listening from and what you thought. Rob, thanks for spending your time with us today.

It has been a joy really. Thanks for having me on and thanks for doing this to bless the lives of so many people. We wanna thank you, Rob, for being with us today. We wanna thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen, and every episode we remember our founder, he would have loved this, Rob, Steve Sorensen.

We hope you'll join us next week. We're continuing on in the Doctrine and Covenants on Follow Him. Thank you for joining us on today's episode. Do you or someone you know speak Spanish, Portuguese, or French? You can now watch and listen to our podcast in those languages. Links are in the description below. Today's show notes and transcript are on our website, followhim.co. That's followhim.co.

Of course, none of this could happen without our production team. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Nielsen, Will Stoughton, Crystal Roberts, Ariel Quadra, Amelia Cabuica, and Annabelle Sorensen.