Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 37-40 : Dr. Susan Easton Black Part II

Episode Date: April 11, 2021

In Part II, John Bytheway asks us if we have ever had the nightmare where we wake up rich. The Saints, as they move to "the Ohio," are called to be separate, like leaving Babylon, and many Saints leave farms and, more importantly, family members. They build a thriving area for Saints, including a temple, in five short years, and we learn to follow their example in building a "great work." We also hear Dr. Black's testimony of the Restoration and the Savior.Shownotes: www.followhim.coYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcast

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. Yeah, well, I just wanted to say that section 39 and 40, if you were to look at all the doctrine of covenants, these are the only sections where they're back-to-back given to the same man. So you look and then as you look at it given to the same man, it's given to a man named James Covell that if we were to look at the 135 individuals mentioned by name in the Doctorant of Covenants,

there were contemporaries with Joseph Smith, he's the one man we know the least about. And so you go, are you kidding me? You know, here is the man. He gets two sections in the doctrine of covenants. We waffle on being able to say his birth and death. We can't name who he's married to, just so just even vital statistics.

And although the section says starts out in reduction, saying he was 40 years of Baptist preacher. We've got other scholars that say, Oh, no, no, I know for sure he is a Methodist. And so what we've got is we've got one man who no doubt is will ultimately join the church after section 39 as we read section 40, but we really can't tell much about him. But what we do know is that he sure knows a lot about Christ, right? I think I'd hate to do a Bible bash with him. I think he could tell us about Bethlehem, Garden Tomb. I mean, he's got it down, but in reality, I think section 39 and 40 are probably the

saddest sections in the whole document. Because who they're given to and his response. I noticed this too that we don't even know how to spell his name because in my 2013 edition, I've got COVID, COV-E-L, but I picked up my quad because I have, I use him in a PowerPoint and I've got COV-I-L-L, and that's what it is in the earlier. And then I noticed the earlier version has him who had been a Baptist minister and my newest version says who had been a Methodist minister. Yeah. Right. If you're looking for a man that's got question marks all over him, he's your guy. And maybe it's because he came and went so quick. What I find on these two sections, if we were, you know, the first section

says, wow, the Lord knows who he is, you know, even though we can't know really who he is, right? knows who he is, even though we can't know really who he is, right? The Lord knows who he is. I like that. The Lord knows who he is. He tells him, literally, hey, your deliverance is finally come. You've been a preacher all these years and lucky you, guess what? You're about to be blessed. All you have to do is repent and be baptized.

And it seems so simple. And then the promise is, you're going to get greater blessings from heaven than you've ever known. And you'd go, wow, he is such a lucky guy. And what's going to be his blessing, he's called to preach the gospel to recover the house of Israel and he's called as a missionary basically to go to the Ohio's. He gets to be a missionary and then he's told in this revelation that he is to cry with a loud voice, that the kingdom of heaven is at hand and to say, Hosanna, blessed is the name of the most high God. In other words, do you see what he's become? It's like he's told you get baptized buddy and I tell you what's going to happen to you. We're going to take all that knowledge

you know about the Savior's teachings. We're going to send you on a mission and you're going to prepare the way of the Lord and those riches of eternity's right that Hank was talking about. You're going to receive. It's just waiting right out there for you. It's almost like getting a patriarchal blessing where he can see the course. You have two pals to take in life. And he can, like the, I don't know, Alice in Wonderland, he's going long.

See, the Cheshire cat, what do you think? And the Cheshire cat goes, hey, it just doesn't matter. Any path is gonna get you there. But in this case, in James Covell, the path he chooses, he can choose greater blessings. And notice he's an older man. I mean, if he's been a preacher 20 years, he's got to be what, going into a 60s or later, right? It's like he's, he's told be baptized and you get to be a senior missionary. That's gonna be your great blessing.

You know, he's not told you're gonna get all this well as we've been talking about. I often refer to James Colville as the great might have been, right? What he could have been, he could have been for the church with all his Bible knowledge and experience. We might be talking about James Colville University here in Provo. We might be talking, you know, it could have been so much. There's an old story that will interest our younger readers.

There was a man in the 1980s who played college basketball at the University of Maryland. All of his stats were better than Michael Jordan. He was better than Michael Jordan in every way. In fact, Michael Jordan went third in his draft. This man went second in his draft. Yet he never won an NBA basketball game because the night he was drafted, he tried drugs for the first time.

And he died. His name was Len Bias. You remember that name, John. His name was Len Bias. Remember that name, John? His name was Len Bias. He had better stats across the board than Michael Jordan. And yet because of that one choice, like you said, he had some row, and he had some choices in front of him. He made that choice. He was drafted by the Boston Celtics. Second in the draft and ended up being, have going into cardiac arrest because of those drugs. He had tried for the first time. And I compare him to James Colville. The great might have been, right? Oh, what could have been, right, with James Colville? What could have been with Len Bias? And then we ask our younger listeners, do you want to be a could have been?

You don't want to end up as a, oh, the great could have been because of your choices. I would love my own section in the doctrine and covenants, especially if it sounds like this. When I think of him, I sing that song, we thank the oh god for a prophet, And then there's a part of this song that says

those who reject this glad message shall never say happiness. No, and I think that about James Covey. I mean he's right at his end and you think trust the journey. Right. Yeah. Oh, press forward, press forward. You're, you're getting towards it. You know, at least the last third of not less of your life. It's, it's out there. The Lord's promised you all these blessings because of your faithfulness. And they did not go. So I don't know if I could be a little bit personal.

But, um, you know, there, I was teaching it BYU. I loved it. I thought I was at the top of my game. Retirement was a choice, right? And I taught, I don't know, not quite a thousand students this semester, you know, those big pit rooms with kids all over and and loved what I was doing. Then the question was, could I give it up and sacrifice and perhaps not have the same influence or the same numbers and go on a mission. And as I thought about, I tried to rationalize. I mean, you know, there were still more books to write, there were all these things and opportunities everywhere.

And then I started thinking about it and I go, well, what would I miss if I didn't accept that first mission call? And I go, you know what I'd miss I'd miss my mission I miss the senior mission and I can now look back and You know, COVID hit pretty much on our middle of our fourth and we're all kind of locked. I can now look back and all kind of like I can now look back and you know COVID hit pretty much on our middle of our fourth and we're all kind of locked down right not even the gym wanted me and so I you know I'd say what what would I have missed oh the friends I made the people that entered baptismal waters. The opportunity to speak, I can remember being introduced

George and I in St. George and the man, the visitor center director stood up and he goes, you know, I think every seat in the building is taken, you know, in this stake center and he goes, except the ones in the restroom and somebody yelled out, even those are taken too. Okay, I would have missed that. So, you know, I look at James Covey, and I think, what could he have been? And maybe he arrived, maybe a university would be named after the man. I mean, he's like Sydney Rage, and they both

been preachers and both knew the Bible probably backwards and forwards better than me, but he missed the chance. There's that little couplet of all the words of, yeah, President Monson, love this one, of all the words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these it might have been. Is that the one? That's it. That's it.

Yeah. And also I think about that, one of my favorite quotations of President Benson, that men and women who turn their lives over to God will discover that he can make a lot more out of their lives than they can. You don't sacrifice anything when you're giving your life to God. He'll make a lot more out of you than you could by yourself. And boy, these promises that he had here, yeah. It President Hinckley would say, what you think at first as a sacrifice will turn out being

an investment, right, which will pay you dividends for years to come. Verse 11 reminds me so much of President Nelson today. I have prepared thee for a greater work, preaching the gospel and recovering the House of Israel. Is that not a 2021 Russell M. Nelson message? And he said to the youth today, you have a chance to be a part of it. You are almost like you are James Colville. You have a chance to be a part of this if you choose.

If you choose, right? It comes down to choice. The blessings come from the choice to follow the Lord. It's just that simple. It won't always be convenient, right? And it sure wasn't for him. I think she go to section 40, he rejected the opportunity. Although, notice it keeps saying, he made the covenants. And he broke those covenants. Oh, you don't want to do that. But I think it's like, do we bash him? And I'd say no, because notice how the Lord says, hey,

I know him. He's in other words, it's in the Lord's hand. We don't need to be judgmental, but we sure can feel sorry for the man. This was kind of shocking to me, because another thing the 2013 edition did Was put an exact date on section 40 Whereas before I think it just said or January 18 31 now it says section 39 was January 5th and section 40 was

January 6th this happened in one day In one day and if you look at here's the general conference, right? The third general conference. And you get it on the second of January. So three days, three days later, here's Colville getting this amazing call. And then like you say, John, the next day, wow, he's rejected.

I mean, perhaps some of us have seen on missions where you work so hard and you share the gospel and you're gathering Israel and they come in the church and then the next thing you hear about them, they've stopped coming. And I have had people say to me, hey, they're leaving the church because they have so many questions.

George and I like to say we're staying because we've found so many answers. You's up with these guys? You got to wear a carder to know it's true. Yeah, I am appreciating these sections of the Doctrine and Covenants more and more just because I think they're so applicable to today. Someone might ask, why did James Colville fall away? Well, the Lord flat out tells us in section 40 verse 2, here's what pulls people away. Satan tempted him, fear of persecution and the cares of the world caused him to reject the word. That's what, I mean, I, this is applicable to everyone listening. And it gives me a question too because I had done some reading on this and I'm sure that our guest will know was he baptized or not and and it says if he made a covenant was that the

the covenant it refers to. Right. In other words, I've seen it like you have, depending on which historian is writing about it. Yeah. No contemporary rights about it. So it's all of us that have muddied the water. But it seems to me when it says covenant, how do you make covenants, but you participate in ordinance, such as the ordinance of baptism. Yeah. In verse 17, the Lord says to James, Colville, lay, lay to with your might and call faithful laborers into my vineyard that it may be pruned for this last time. And I thought exactly of Jacob chapter five, and we've mentioned this before on the podcast, where they go call the servants.

And there's just such an interesting word. And Jacob five verse 70, it says, the servant did as the Lord commanded him and brought the servants, and they were few. That's just not the word that you think is going to write that they were amazing. They were, they were, numerous, powerful, powerful. No, they were few. The Lord tells us in section 121, why is it just a few? And it's the same reasoning as section 40. Many are called, but few are chosen. Why are not chosen? Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world. So to you both, what does that mean? The cares of the world or the fear of persecution or the things of this world?

What is that to you? What should we be watching out for? Well, I don't know. I guess I could say, you know, the being a senior missionary, right? As James Covell would have done. Maybe he didn't think he could find a good doctor in Ohio. I was like, heard people talk about, Hey, I've got this latest illness. Or maybe it's, you know, he's got families surrounding him, right?

You know, leave those grandkids, I think they can all leave their kids as the grandkids, right? And maybe they have their house, their friends, their things they've known. And do they have the confidence to really trust in the Lord that he'll care for them and care for their loved ones while they're gone. And that things will work out. In other words, the Lord's in charge. I think the cares of the world is when we try to micromanage lives and think we can do a better job. I'm in charge here. It's like you turn your lives over to the Lord and

the opportunities, just amazing that you would never have over to the Lord and the opportunities are just amazing that you would never have imagined come your way. Yeah, you say it exactly as the Lord does in verse 10 of section 39, a blessing so great as you never have known. And the question is Susan, do you believe him? Right? Oh, absolutely.

Do you believe him? I mean, you have to believe the Lord, right? You don't second guess, you don't just suppose, why would he say it if it were not true? Oh, and that's the question, you know, between the cares of this world and the promises of the Lord, which one are you going to choose? And it seems so obvious as we sit and talk, but in real life, it's a hard choice.

It's a hard choice. You know, Hank, when you asked that question, I thought of section one, sometimes I'll tell my students, hey, if you just want something that sounds like an awesome conference talk, just go open section one. And in verse 16, this kind of hints that cares with the world. They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way

after the image of his own God whose image is in the likeness of the world. It's, I want to be like the world and whose substance is that of an idol which acts as the old and shall perish in Babylon. But I like, I want to follow what the world's doing. And when I see cares of the world there, follow what the world's doing. And when I see cares of the world there, I think the world's so fickle. It's going to be this and then it's going to be that and then it's going to be this. And there's such a better foundation to build on, you know. It's the Indiana Jones moment, remember where he has to step out into the canyon, knowing

that the Lord's going to, well, he doesn't, in the analogy, he knows that he's gonna be caught, he's something's gonna happen. The cares of the world also come up in the parable of the sower, where the Lord says the ground is good, but there's so many weeds, right? There's so many thorns that the word or the gospel

can't grow. And I wonder if that's me, you know, that I love the gospel and the soil is good, but I've just got so many other things going on, Susan, I just can't give it the time. You know, I've got my Netflix shows and I've got, I've got, I've got, I've got, I've got, I've got so much going on and that's the soil that scares me probably the most is the one that the word gets choked

out because there's just not enough room for it. That scares me that I don't make room. You can do see that today that people have so much going on. You know, Sunday just becomes quote, the family day day as opposed to the Lord's day. I think that when I was a bishop, when I tried to add up everything I was supposed to do, I thought there's there's not enough hours in a day. And I was so grateful I stumbled upon something that present Henry B. Eiring said that he said, you may see so much that you have to do. And I know I'm switching gears here a little bit, but maybe I have so much to do good things even. But President Eiring said, so sometimes you may even be bitter. And he said, the question

to ask is just what should I do next? And that helped me so much that I can't do all of it. I simply can't. So, Heavenly Father, what do I do next? That was a great blessing to me. And I think for all of us in the gospel, there is so much, then what are the best things? What are the most important things? And maybe these sections help us answer that, you know? I think you're exactly right, John. There's an interesting change of verbiage in verse eight of section 39. Very like I said, to the thine heart, this is to James Covell.

Thine heart is now right before me. And then if you go to section 40, and you look at verse one, and then at this time, at this, I saw that at this time in verse eight too. That qualifies. Yeah. And then he says in section 40,

but tomorrow on January 6th. Listen to this language. James Colville is the heart of my servant James Colville. This section 40 verse one was right before me. For he commented with me that he would obey my word. This is the power of agency, isn't it? And you see how quick you can change. I remember one time I came out of a lesson on David

David and Bashy, but I came out of the lesson and I was thinking of myself Well, you know, how could David do that? How could David fall? I just think oh David What were you thinking and another man came out of the same lesson? He said did that lesson scare you as much as it scared me and I of course Was not scared at all. And so I went, yeah, yeah, yeah, what do you mean? And he said, if someone like David can fall, doesn't that scare you? These sections maybe are a good warning to all of us to keep our heart right. Keep our covenants.

Stay on the covenant path. Like President Nelson says, Stay on the covenant path like present Nelson says, stay on the covenant path. That in President Nelson's emphasis on the work of salvation, the gathering of Israel is it's so fun to see how prevalent these are here in these sections. And how it is still the great work as it says there, a greater work in verse 11, the youth theme for this year is section 64 verse 33 about by small and simple things, great things come to pass. You're doing a great work and it's still the same work. We're still gathering Israel on both sides of the veil.

Susan, I have a question for you. It looks like to me section 40 is our last New York section. And section 41, we began a kind of a new period in the church. They actually went to the Ohio. They actually left this church. They went, yes. What does New York, even though we only spent 10 months there as a church, what is New York to our history? Right, as we shut the door on New York, what would you say to our history, New York is? I mean, you love these places so much. I know you do and I know you look forward to Navu, right? Navu is your home. But as we bid goodbye to New York, what should we remember? What should we take with us? All right. Well, New York is always called the cradle of the restoration. That's just where it begins.

When we say goodbye to New York, we say goodbye to the sacred grove. We say goodbye to the home where Joseph, Todd, his family, Knightley, true, so he had learned from the Anger Moroni. We say goodbye to the hill where Joseph got the plates from Anger Moroni. We say goodbye to the, well, to Alvin Smith, who's buried there

to the Grandin bookstore printing press where the Book of Mormon comes off. We say goodbye to the Whitmer Farm where you get the 20 revelations, three witnesses to the book of Mormon, see the Angel Moroni, the organization, the church, the three conferences of the church. New York was a cradle, New York was a foundation, and now we move on to Ohio to get the law and the power, the endowed power from unhigh. Yeah, and Emma's Emma saying goodbye to her family in pencil.

Emma saying goodbye to your family. I think between section 40 and 41 you just got a pause and just see that the end of a beautiful a beautiful era and know that you're moving on beginning. Yeah, you're moving on to something to to something even, you know, as you said, when you retired from BYU, you just, you decided to close the door on that period, but the Lord opened a door to another period of life. That is, that is absolutely beautiful. Susan, you are a historian and a scholar. You know church history as well as anyone on the planet today. You have studied the ins and outs of church history, it's ups and downs. I don't know if anybody knows the life of Joseph Smith

as well as you do. And here you are a faithful believer. I would love to know, I think our listeners would love to know what keeps you, what keeps you on the covenant path and what are your feelings, what are your personal feelings towards Joseph Smith and his contemporaries in the in the restoration? One of the things that really helped me on staying on the covenant path has that when I was young but mind you, I looked the same and I'm sure all my students would tell you that right? Yes. But okay. When I was young, I like many, had questions about the church, but not doubts. And there's a difference between a question and a doubt. But I decided to take an old missionary journal, and I wrote down all my questions and literally filled it rather than throwing the baby out

with the bath water, right? Because of questions, I decided to search to find the answers. And every Christmas, I get out that old notebook now, 40 years old plus. And I go through to see how many questions I've been able to answer. And I got to be in the 80th percentile now. I am so glad I stayed, and that none of the questions blew me out of the water, and none of the questions moved from a question to a doubt. And what keeps me on the covenant path? Oh, wow, I'm closer to eternity than either you two. And, you know,

I've got, oh gosh, at least half my loved ones have already passed through the veil. And, wow, I just can hardly wait to meet them. And I, okay, sorry, I don't want to meet them having not made it to the end of the row. And, you know, you just, you can't stop off along the trail like say a James Covey. I just, I want to make sure that, you know, patriarchal blessings are fulfilled. I don't, you know, that I make it to the end. And then last my feelings about Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith was a prophet. And can you imagine I've got to spend a lifetime studying about a man that was a prophet. And it's not like a name, every blade of grassy stepped on, but I'm not through.

You know, it's not a good day for me. If I haven't written something, and when you write something, you know your exactions, you know you got it. I am so grateful for the prophet Joseph Smith because of Joseph Smith and the ordinances that were restored to the church, I mean, I'm sealed my family for all time and eternity and for that. Even if that were, we're yet, I mean,

because I know Joseph, I've been able to know more about Jesus Christ. And I want to thank you too what what you're doing for the world literally at large is phenomenal. And although we're just friends sitting and talking, well who's to say but this conversation will make a difference, maybe even a big difference in someone that we will never have an opportunity to meet in this life. But if we keep our covenants,

we'll somehow be together in the next life. And perhaps I'll say, you know, I remember when you were sitting with hanks, Smith and John, by the way, and you were just talking, but John said something, or Hank said something, and you were just talking, but John says something or Hank says something or maybe I said something and their lives will be better.

So trust the covenant path, gather out Israel wherever you can. Don't be embarrassed. You have the truth, Sheridan. It's an amazing message. And thank you again for allowing me to participate. Oh absolutely. Dr. Susan Eastern Black thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for for being with us. John, every time I know I say this every week, John, but every time I think, oh, I those those sections of the Doctrine and Cominence will never be the same to me, but I can say

right now sections 37 through 40 We'll never look at them the same They become so much more personal what what an honor. I took a lot of notes and I really Don't want it to end. I want more notes and and I hope we can we can have you on again Thank you. I'd love to because it's been such a fun thing I think one of the things Hank told me is that some of the people feel like, uh, what did you say, Hank, that they just ran into a bunch of people talking in the hall. Yeah. And I look, I look forward to this of just talking with people that

I love and respect about wonderful ideas and and truths that I also love and respect. And it always wonderful ideas and truths that I also love in respect. And it always lifts me up. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you so much to Dr. Susan Easton Black. Thank you to all of you who listen. We're grateful for your kindness, your support to us. We're thankful to our producers, Steve and Shannon Sorenson and our production team,

David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Nelson, Will Stoughton and Kyle Nelson. And we'll see you next time on the next episode of Follow Him. you