Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 41-44 : Dr. Barbara Gardner Part II

Episode Date: April 18, 2021

Why did the Lord repeat the Ten Commandments in these Sections? Have we been commanded to keep the Law of Consecration, just as these Saints in Ohio? John and Hank continue with Dr. Gardner to teach about work, love, consecration, grief, humor, temple worship, and testimony. Her testimony is brilliant, vigorous, and persuasive. Learn why Dr. Gardner loves the Lord and His Gospel.Shownotes: www.followhim.coYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcast

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. Barb, we've got teaching. We've got repentance. What's next? Besides the fact that he's talking about the poor and the needy are always going to be among us. And he's talking about the storehouse, verse 34. Verse 35, he's talking about the purpose of purchasing

the lands and why they're doing it. But I want to make the point that, again, law of consecration, I love the temple. So, verse 36, that my covenant people, so why are they being commanded to live the law of consecration? Why are they going to be eventually commanded to move to New Jerusalem? He gives the answer in verse 36 that my covenant people may be gathered in one in that day when I shall come to my temple.

And this I do for the salvation of my people. I love that President Nelson, this is not a direct quote, but everybody said it's much harder to build a covenant at Temple people than it is to build a temple. That kind of idea. And the Lord is trying to build a temple people. And the law of consecration is one of the best ways hands down to help people sacrifice their their wants their their selfish ideas and ideologies and everything else for the betterment of people and become the kind of people that Christ is who sacrificed all things. The law of consecration is critical that we understand that it's agency at its finest. No one's being forced to live the law of consecration. People have the opportunity to choose if they do or don't want to live it and what they are going to give in the so living. And so the law of consecration is really a people, the Lord is cleansing the people as it says in verse 41. The cleansing is reforming and then verse 40, thou shalt not be proud and

thy heart. He's helping the people to become humble. He's helping them to care about each other. He's helping them to be prepared to enter the temple, make those covenants that are going to be required and that are going to be required of all of us who desire to become like God. That's the law of consecration. It's critical to the history of the church, more importantly, it's critical to the exaltation of all of us. I wonder, you know, to you and I, we think, oh, temples, law of consecration, of course. I wonder how new this is, temple, right?

Like, what's it, we're gonna have a temple? What's a temple? What do you do in a temple? And they didn't, they didn't know. Clearly they didn't know what was going on with the temple. The Lord knew, but they they were getting excited because the Lord like gives them little hints here and there. I'll die you with power. I'll give you my life. He gives them little little bits and pieces. There was no way they had any idea when you looked through this what what the Lord was going to give them. But boy does he help prepare them to get there? This is such an interesting point to me

because I'm trying to think of the existing churches of the day. Anyone use that name temple was the only temple that we knew about the temple in Jerusalem. And now all of a sudden, the Lord keeps using this idea of building a temple. And what are we going to do there? It's such an interesting, would you say that's

pretty unique to our faith, this idea of temples? Yeah, maybe. I don't know exactly how unique I know. We have the Jewish faith that has the temples that they're believing in. Other Christian churches will recognize any Judeo-Christian churches going to recognize temple. This emphasis on the temple and the purpose of the temple is different. The restoration of the priest of blessings Church is going to recognize Temple. This emphasis on the Temple and the purpose of the Temple is different. The restoration of the priesthood blessings that are going to be associated with the Temple are clearly different.

So I guess the context of the Temple is probably different. Maybe the emphasis on the Temple as we continue on, but other religions would have had an understanding at least of temples. But they didn't know what was coming. Didn't they think they could have that? No, no, clearly didn't understand what was coming. We're still extremely distinct in the use of temple on that no question.

Barb, the love consecration is going to be something we talk about continually in the next 40 sections. Yeah, this is merely an introduction, right? Yeah, this is just an introduction. But how do you help your students understand the difference between, hey, what's yours is mine now? Versus what the love consecration is really about. Do you have students to ask you those type of questions like before Joseph Smith shows up in Kirtland, they're trying to live this law and the idea is I can just walk up to you and, hey, I like that watch. Right? I can tell you stories of people doing that. I mean, legitimate

tertiary stories. Yeah. And that's not what the Lord has in mind. And then the guy took it and sold it, right? Right? Exactly. So funny. The question I get more from my students is, what's the difference between the law of consecration and communism or socialism? That's typically the question I get regarding the law of consecration. And why repeat people forced into it, which is why we talked about agency, they weren't. Another question I often get is, why don't we live it anymore? That one's a tricky question,

because we may not live it according as it is here publicly in this way where everybody was giving this and we had a storehouse in that exact manner. But as President Hinckley says, the law of sacrifice and law of consecration were not done away with and are still in effect. I used to ask my dad why we didn't live the law of consecration were not done away with and are still in effect.

I used to ask my dad why he didn't live a law of consecration and I'll never forget his answer. It was just simply, I don't know why aren't you. I was like, oh, okay. Thanks, everybody else is. Apparently I didn't pick that ball up. I'm gonna keep my watch. That's why.

Actually, so yeah, I mean, people could be asking, like, it's all a matter of, as they said at the time, they live in an association called the family, and Ohio in those early years. Although people as a group joined, not every individual was given their agency, if a family joined, but in law of consecration still individuals are given that responsibility. But it's also a matter of sacrifice and willingness. In the law of consecration, people weren't told to take things. It was all giving.

It was all sacrificing and giving. And there's a lot more law of consecration that'll come up in the sections in the future. But when we're talking about needs, wants, and what wanting really means and lacking of things, there's a lot more that we could talk about. I think the biggest thing for law of consecration is agency, stewardship, sacrificing for the greater purpose

of others and the Lord coming unto Christ. As it is today, stewardship, sacrificing for the greater purpose of others and the Lord coming under Christ. As it is today, no difference. It looks different than it did then, but the law of consecration is still very much in effect. The elders of the church were talking about just living together in love, and we've kind of already talked about relationships between people and speaking highly of each other. We have the law of

healing and death. And I love these. This is really 43 to 52. I love where a Brigham Young says, now there are too many people who are saying, don't call a doctor. Just heal me and Brigham Young basically kind of summarizing says, are you kidding me? If we have a doctor, call a doctor. If we're in the middle of a mountain somewhere and we have nobody to help us, yes, then we will perform a priest of blessing and the Lord will bless us according to our faith and according to his will. But if there's a doctor in town, go to the doctor. And it's the same thing I think as Elder Holland is talking about mental illness.

I take this personally because I have many of my family members who struggled desperately with mental illnesses. And one of the things Elder Holland says is, you know, find a good counselor, talk to your priesthood leader or authority, and also take medication. So I think it's interesting in 43 to 52, the Lord is saying, use the help that you can help, be healed where you can be healed, but also have the faith to be healed or the faith not to be healed according to the Lord's desire. To me, that's those are some significant teachings just in those verses by themselves.

What is that in verse 43? But believe shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs, mild food. To me, use what's available to you to get healed. And today it would probably be, yeah, we've been added to that. Doctors, medications, study, right? What is the verse?

Shall we not make use of the things which the Lord hath provided? Oh, yeah. I love that because that says, look, there are even medications there. Look, look at what the Lord has provided. So don't just know, we'll just go get a healing blessing. But in most healing blessings that I've been a witness to, I have heard the council coming,

listen to the doctor, see what he says as well and exercise your faith type of a thing. That's Alma 60 verse 21, John. We read it. You know, it's Pohoran and Moroni right and back to fourth, right? He says, do you suppose that the Lord will still deliver us while we sit upon our thrones and do not do not make use of the means which the Lord has provided for us? Very good.

It's almost like you do this for a Lord has provided for us. Very good. It's almost like you do this for a living, John. You're pretty good. I love this in connection with that. Almost a similar wording is, Roni, if we are sick and ask the Lord to heal us and do all for us that is necessary to be done according to my understanding of the gospel salvation,

I might as well ask the Lord to cause my wheat and corn to grow without my plowing and ground, plowing the ground and casting in the seed. It appears inconsistent to me. It appears consistent to me to apply every remedy that comes within the range of my knowledge and to ask my father and heaven in the name of Jesus Christ to sanctify that application to the healing of my body.

Nice. I just love that. Brigham Young, he's such a practical person. You know, that reminds me, I heard Charlene Wells-Hawks tell a story about one of her ancestors that their handcart, their wagon was stuck or something and they didn't know what to do. And somebody said, well, let's pray. And her ancestors said, I pray this morning, let's get out and push. Yeah, that's great.

As opposed to my ancestor who was walking across the plains and she said she wasn't going any farther. So her husband ticker and dumped her right in the middle of the river and said, well, you have a choice. One way or the other, you're going to get wet. So you better start fucking. Oh my goodness. There we go. I don't think mine work quite as faithful as Charlie Mowell's found. Hey, can I share with you one of my other favorite scriptures in this part? It's verse 45. This is personal to me and many who have lost loved ones. I love it. Thou shalt live together in love

in as much as Thou shalt weep for the loss of them that die. And more especially for those that have not hope of a glorious resurrection. This idea, I mean, I lost my father just a couple of months ago. I know Hank, you've lost your father recently. John, I'm not sure about your situation.

It's my mother in December. Yeah, just a couple months ago. All of us within the last three months have lost four months. I guess mine was in November, but have lost people that we love dearly. And I love that it's a law to weep for the loss of them that die. The president Nelson, this is one of my favorite quotes on death. He says irrespective of age, we mourn for those loved and lost. Morning is one of the deepest expressions of pure love.

It is a natural response in complete accord with divine commandment that I'll shout live together in love in so much that I'll shout weep for the loss of them that die. I, I, I, President, or elder Holland has a state Marie says tears are the price we pay for love. And I just, I, I, I mourn deeply at the loss of my father and at the loss of my mother and my husband at the loss of his mother and father and We are eternal beings and there's a reason I think that we mourn. We miss people

We love each other and and I'm grateful I'm grateful to be blessed with the kind of love that allows me to weep and I'm grateful for the love others have that allows them to weep And the Lord saying don't Avoid that don't try to isolate yourself and avoid that. Love people and live together in love. And yeah, you will weep. But internal perspective helps that, doesn't it? And I was thinking, Mosiah 18, here's, I'm the elder of the waters of Mormon saying, are you willing to come into the fold of God, be called as people, are you willing to mourn with those that mourn? And it's part of being a member of the church

even is that we together, we mourn with one another. There's, you know, you're talking before, John, about joy and about the happiness. You can be a joyful person and still mourn deeply. And Christ was the perfect example of that. And I think that something is members of church. Sometimes we are really good at being happy. And for a good reason, we have a great reason to have joy. No question. And as President Nelson says, it's who we are and what we believe in.

And it's the direction that we're going and that causes us to have this joy. It's our foundation in Jesus Christ that causes the joy. But it's also our foundation in Jesus Christ that causes us to mourn. It's about love. When Lazarus was dead and what, Jesus wept, and he knew exactly what was going to happen.

But he wept and he mourned with them. And we don't mourn, what did Joseph Smith say, but we don't mourn as those without hope. Right. We shall have them again, you know. Yeah. We should also add that you can have faith and still mourn. Sometimes we think our testimony is,

you know, I shouldn't be mourning. I know I have a great testimony of the Lord, but mourning and faith go hand in hand. You can be very faithful and and have deep grief for a long time. We're probably going too far on this, but I'm one more Joseph F Smith. I don't have a direct quote, but I think about his life and the pandemic of his early 1900 years and the millions who died then and losing his own son who was an apostle and many of his own children. I read in his own personal writings one day in one of his journals, he wrote something to the

effect of as he was, as he lost one of his daughters, he said, I don't mourn because I am lacking in faith or I don't mourn because I feel that I will never see her again. He says, I have no question. I will see her again. I mourn because I miss her. I mourn because I love her. That's very healthy. Yeah, that is very healthy. That is very healthy.

That is very healthy. Okay, what's next? This is a long section. And it is so, I mean, this is, it's prolific. Just the content here is rich with theology and law. I just look at 61, because I was thinking about this, look how the Lord was just, well, I want a revelation about this.

Okay, well, this guy wants a revelation. Okay, well, this guy wants a revelation. Okay, and he's just not saying, don't bother me. He's saying, if you shall ask, thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things, that which bringeth joy, which we're just talking about, that which bringeth life eternal. I put an exclamation point by that verse. I thought that's another ask and you shall receive type verse. Amen. That's a president Nelson at its finest lately, calling us to seek revelation, right? To hear him. Yeah. Yeah. These are also good parenting scriptures for me at least as I have my

children and also as a daughter to my I think of one specific specific instance where my mom asked me a question and my mother passed away from brain cancer. And so at the end of her life, she was asking a lot of questions that weren't making a lot of sense. And I remember again, a lot of negativity in my life, but I remember negativity, meaning I made some very stupid comments in my life, clearly. But I remember saying to my mom, mom, you've asked that question so many times. And it was one of those stupid moments,, I just looked back at what I would give

for my mom to ask a question again, right? But I could actually give her an answer to. But I remember in the moment I said that to my mom, the very simple rebuke, and you haven't from the Lord. Like, really? You have, really? You're actually telling your mother right now and not to ask a question.

She knows the answer too. I mean, how many times? And I just think that I love that, Jari, you said that I mean, revelation upon revelation and that I'll just show it God wants to speak and he is speaking. And as a parent, I also need to be careful that I'm not shutting people down

or as a teacher that I'm allowing great questions and I'm creating the atmosphere where questions can be asked. And especially that I'm creating the atmosphere where questions can be asked. And especially that I'm creating the atmosphere where questions can be asked of the Lord. A great contribution that Sister Sherry Doe made was that questions are good. And she started that talk up at Ricks

about have you engaged in the wrestle? And then all heck, bring all your questions. Absolutely. Bring all your questions and wrestle with them. We don't say in the gospel, don't have questions. We say ask, and here's the Lord saying, if you ask, you'll receive. That's pretty straightforward.

I wish the timing were on my terms sometimes. Yeah, definitely. And I think that's important, especially in our day and age, we have a lot of young adults who sometimes I think that they think, or not just them, many people, many of us may think that if we ask too many questions at some point we might find that the church isn't true. Nothing could be more opposite than that. Yeah.

The problem is when we don't ask enough questions, when we stop too early from finding the answers, in my entire life, I have never yet, and I have asked many, many questions. In fact, I have a book where I keep my questions, and I just keep adding and adding legitimately do. And I, most of my research that I do comes because of my questions, I want to find answers. And I have yet to find something that if I studied it all the way through that has an anyway shape or form caused me to have any desire to leave the church, there are times when I've asked a question and I haven't gone far enough and I've thought, what in the world am I believing? But if I keep going, the Lord satisfies the question with a very solid answer, even if it's the spirit confirming to me that I don't understand, but it's still true. But the Lord will confirm through revelation. We can't be I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say,

I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say,

I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, a revelation. He's saying you'll receive revelation upon revelation. He probably could keep going upon revelation. So be patient in this process as I lay this out for you. I like to tell my students that sometimes you think your question will be met with an answer, but what if the Lord instead says, I'm going to give you an experience and it'll take six months and then you'll find your answer and you trust him to answer your question through an experience that might take months or years and for me that's how some of my answers have come through an experience that took a while. Elder Bednar actually has a statement where he says he goes the temple looking for better questions to ask and then he goes home to

study and try to live according so that he can find answers. But I find it fascinating that for him the temple is a place to find good questions. Kind of a difference, and sometimes we'll see the temple as. Barbara, I can see I'm seeing the end of the tunnel here. What? What do you teach in here as we get towards the very end of this one? 92 versus? Wow, we are already there. So I just see verse 74 again. This is the second revelation. So it's important to recognize that this was the first up

through verse 72. And then we see this, this is the second revelation. So we have a little repeat about redol tree and covenant keeping and things of that nature. And then the Lord specifically is dealing with the law, dealing with transgressors, those who have sinned and how to go about helping those people come back into the fold, but also he's trying to teach his, his his bishop how to deal with those who are leaving the church

and struggling with law of consecration, or not necessarily holding up to the covenants that they have been making with the Lord. And so we see these verses ending in 92 and 93, but if any of you shall offend in secret, he or she shall be rebuked in secret that he or she may have opportunity to confess in secret to him or her whom he or she has offended and to God that the church may not speak reproachfully to him or her. The purposes, let's help people repent, let's help people get back on her feet. The purpose of all of this is the salvation of souls. Let's not, let's not again be communal about it, let's not talk to the world about it. Let's help

individuals come into Christ. Do you know what I love about this? I think about John chapter 8, the woman taken in adultery, and how Jesus dismissed the crowd before he spoke to her. He spoke to her even as far as we can tell, there wasn't an dispute that something bad had happened, but his respect for her, even in that state, was such that he dismiss the crowd before he said, where those nine accusers, half no man condemned me and I love the respect he had for her that I'm not he didn't say, okay, is this true in front of everybody. He dismissed them all first and I've always loved that that between him and her and the alone, verse 88 and their verse 92. Yeah. I've barbed by really liked when you said, this is the Lord to help in his bishop, right? Yeah. I just felt, yeah, my heart just leapt for Edward Partridge and anybody who

has to, who is, I shouldn't say has to, who has the opportunity to work one-on-one with someone who has made serious mistakes. And I think it's a beautiful thing that the Lord put this in here because He could just say, you know, I want you all living the commandments, take care of it. But implied in this is, you're going to make some mistakes along the way. And I'm going to, I'm going to create a way to help those who are limping along, you know, who have been wounded by sin. And if anybody is willing to come and see the bishop, they are so far down the road, because they're willing to come.

And the Lord's mercy, I love what Elder Neil L. Anderson talked about, giving a guy a blessing who was still haunted by actions. So yeah, I like looking at that as, hey, Bishop Partridge, this will happen. I heard a friend recently talk about the Iron Rod and how so often in pictures we depict an Iron Rod as if it's waist time or holding on and just kind of trudging along. And we have these, you know, depending on the picture, we have some darkness here, River there. And he's like, for me, the Iron Rod is like, high above the sky, and I am holding on for dear life, trying to do what Zelda Bednar says, you know,

continually holding, but he's like, it is taking every piece of muscle I possibly have. But then I think, you know, when you get to that tree of life, and I think that this is where the bishop often is representing the savior or a state president or someone else that that we have people in our lives. And this case, it's we're talking about the bishop or those who are called to do so. We're doing so correctly. And individual legitimately is filled with God's love. But, but for all of us, I mean, all of us are sinners and need

and need the savior and all of us are sinners and need leaders to help us family members to help us implied in this whole thing is it just seems a lot of mercy and a lot of The Lord knows that we're gonna make mistakes and that there's going to be a way for this to be dealt with And bringing someone back. I like how you pointed that out in verse 92, that the church may not speak reproachfully of him or her. I think that is beautiful. When I was serving on the high council in my stake, I was part of these membership councils,

and I remember my very first one going, oh, this is scary, oh, I'm nervous, you know, what's gonna happen? And everyone that I was a part of was so full of love for the individual and for, you know, anyone who had been offended by that or hurt by that individual. And they were some of the most sacred experiences of my life were just and I wasn't a major player here. I'm, you know, just on the high council. I wasn't a major player here, just on the high council. But I look back on those and think about those and think of what I had thought in my head. It was like versus what it was actually like. And the difference is pretty stark. However, in the early days of the church, there were some pretty funny councils that were

going on. I can't remember the names that I apologize. I don't have it on top of my head right now. But the first accusation was speaking too loudly in public. And then, you learn more about this later in the Dr. Inc. evidence, and we'll have more specific as to, you know, the way in which people are going through these councils and responsibilities each individual.

But there was a lot to learn for the early states to regarding these councils. You speak individual, but there was a lot to learn for the early states to regarding these councils. You speak of the problems with the saints. That kind of leads us to section 43, doesn't it? It sure does. They're having some problems. I call it hubble trouble. Oh, that's good.

I'm gonna be like that. Yeah, take it. Yes. It makes me happy to say it. I don't know why. If you don't know about this, you've been in the Hubble trouble bubble. That was good.

That was good, John. Wow. So as we approach section 43, there seems to have been a bit of controversy or a question that kind of reminds us a little bit of section 28. So what was happening here that brought this one about? I love in this section that we hear from this woman, but what I love about section 28 is higher in page repensity comes back, at least initially.

In this section, we have Mrs. Hubble trouble who doesn't. And so these early days, again, we talked earlier about Ohio and some of these struggles. We are at the beginning of the church. The church has only been organized for, if you're a February of 1831. So, I mean, yeah, we're talking not even a full year yet. Joseph has just received revelation in section 28 regarding only one person being in charge

and speaking for the church. So we're just barely understanding government structure of the church. We did now receive our law, which talks about revelation, but it doesn't talk about who receives revelation necessarily. I mean, so now section 43, there's a reason people didn't always believe that there was just one prophet speaking on the earth. In fact, that is what separates us from the other churches. And so Mrs. Helble believes that she is receiving this revelation. People are believing her. And in the words of John Glitmer, I think in his history that he kept for the church, he said, she professed to be a prophetess of the Lord

and professed to have many revelations and knew the Book of Mormon was true and that she should become a teacher in the Church of Christ, which is the tricky part because she's teaching the Book of Mormon and she's trying to bring people to Christ so it seems. But then you can see. She's a baptized member. I don't know.

The answer is I don't know to that question. So it says, she appeared to be very sanctimonious and deceived some who were not able to detect her in her hypocrisy. Others, however, had the spirit of discernment and her follies and abominations were manifest. And then this one from Ezra Booth, I think it's also very telling. I love these little historical clipses and these about her just because I want to understand what's going on with her. There aren't enough women in the church in the scriptures. And so it's kind of buggy that again, we have this one, but that's great. Anyway, so he says a female professing to be a prophetess made her appearance in Kurtland and so ingratiated herself into the esteem and favor of some of the elders that they

received her as a person commissioned to act a conspicuous part in Mormonizing the world. But Smith declared her an imposter and she returned to the place from when she came. Her visit however made a deep impression on the minds of many and the barbed arrow which she left in the hearts of some is not yet eradicated. I don't like the word barbed arrow very much either. My name. But I understand what they're saying here. But just the idea that it was, he says, is not yet eradicated. I mean, this problem and this kind of, this philosophy was very difficult to get out, and but partially it's because there was no standard yet that had been set. They're still in the process of understanding, but it was a difficult experience for Joseph the prophet, as you can imagine.

Verse 3 says, there is not other pointed onto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken, meaning Joseph Smith, if he abide in me. So it seems to me that Joseph Smith and the Lord here are, there's a delicate balance between, yes, you need to receive revelation. Yes, you need to go to the Lord for yourself. No, you're not gonna receive revelation for the church. So Joseph doesn't want to squash revelation

and say, I'm the only one, but he also doesn't want to make revelations so without boundary that everybody's up in arms. And so that seems to me to be a delicate and difficult balance. Absolutely. And I think that's also what we're seeing here is Joseph, this is happening. And Joseph, I think, is he doesn't know for sure how we supposed to respond. And so that this revelation comes as an answer to Joseph's prayer saying,

there's this lady and she's clearly receiving different revelation than I am. What do I do? So he's asking the Lord, how do I handle this? What is the truth? How do I teach this? And the Lord is explaining to Joseph for the first time. Joseph is now receiving this revelation saying exactly what you just read, Hank. So the Lord is tutoring Joseph in the process.

And as you can imagine, Joseph, I mean, I just think, wow, that is a extremely heavy piece of responsibility that Joseph has just received to know that he is the one to receive revelation for the church. Others can receive revelation for their own lives. As President Oaks talks about, they're two different, two different lines of revelation. But as far as the one receiving revelation from the church, it's the prophet. And no one will take his place until the Lord appoints that to happen. Let me share something from... there's a four-volume commentary by Stephen Robinson and Dean Garrett,

both of whom I had classes from. At this time, page 35 of volume two, these Protestant churches were very democratic in their structure, working from the bottom up, and the new converts were mostly unfamiliar with the idea of a priesthood order working from the top down, or a hierarchy of spiritual authorities over the church. Thus, the Lord needed to make clear to the Kirtland Saints how he would reveal his will to them in his restored church. I thought that was interesting, because yet they're... This is where they're coming from. Yeah, it's part of that family philosophy. That mean they were they were living this, we called the law of consecration. They were saying sharing, but it wasn't just sharing of food and

clothing. It was sharing of ideas and authority and everybody had a say. So this is very different than what they were accustomed to at that time. No question. Now, I see the Lord kind of giving the balance between them when He says in verse 5, this shall be a law unto you that you receive not the teachings of any that shall come before you as revelations or commandments. And then you look at verse 8, He says, I do want you assembled together, instruct each other, edify each other, but this idea of someone coming with you with prophetic revelation and commandment, no,

instructing edify each other, yes. That'd be a difficult thing to learn as a new member, right? Like where's the boundary? Well, yeah, and I think verse seven as well, the Lord is saying to Joseph, starting in verse six, I give unto you that you may not be deceived, and then how are you not to be deceived? Well, the person that is ordained of me shall come in at the gate. And be ordained as I have told you before, they're not going to be a backdoor person, they're not going to be an unknown person, all of a sudden who is taking over, it's going to be

someone who is legitimately called of God and that people have understood. He is going to be known as the prophet. And then verse 8, I just love that, after being known that this is the prophet, the Lord then requires people to act. And you see that in verse 8, how to act and direct my church, how to act upon the points of my loss, we he's speaking literally to the to the leader. But also he's teaching the people, you need to be acting. And then in verse 9, act in holiness before me. This this idea that we have a prophet, he speaks and his responsibility of the prophet to act upon what God has said to him and his responsibility, the members of the church to act upon what the prophet has said for the church. This real need of people to actually do something

according to the will of the Lord. I love to see the boundaries being laid out and not to think that they should have known everything. They're figuring it out. It's getting laid out in front of them. So I'm going to need to be more charitable towards the saints of the past. Just because Joseph Smith didn't go to primary.

He didn't have a few men. He didn't have, you know. He didn't have the articles of faith. Right, and this bishop didn't have a handbook of instructions. And I did, and I'm still worried about, I asked the Lord to, did I, oh boy, Lord, I hope I didn't spend those fast offerings wrong. Oh my goodness.

Right, you know, haunts me to this day. And no relief to society, president. Nobody was going to have words. Nobody was making assignments. There was no home teaching. I mean, this is just so much where we're so at the beginning. And the Lord, again, I mean, we see this. But the Lord clearly again, as you see this, he's trying to get him to act, purge out the iniquity and the people as he sits as we see in verse 11, he continues on, provide for those and then verse 14, reservants myself a pure people before me and then you're not sent to teach, you're not sent forth to be taught, but to teach. So there's a whole nother level of responsibility for these very young members of the church. And then again, as we see in verse 16, you're taught from on high,

sanctify yourselves and you shall be endowed with power. So he's again preparing his people for the temple, preparing his people for this experience. I know I keep parking on that, but... No, it's... Ohio, there's a reason for Ohio. That's why he told him to go. Yep. And I love him for 17, the great day of the Lord is at hand. Obviously, they thought that it was coming sooner, but the great day of the Lord is at hand. Oh, I was laughing about that because, um because Sorry, but I'm looking back at section 41 verse 4 and behold I come quickly said the Lord 190 years ago

And so thinking We talked about this in a previous broadcast, but quickly can mean suddenly or in a time you think not, right? We've covered the first half of 43 here, Barb. What's the last half of 43? Oh, so here we are talking about preparation for the people to be in doubt with power. I think that really does kind of lead into what we're talking about. So now the Lord is saying, I need to prepare you. And then we're talking about how the Lord is going to get their attention versus 2325.

Like I am going to get your attention. You need to repent. I'm in a shout at the Trump of God, all of this. And then he's going to help us to understand his words and his voice, how often I called upon you by the mouth of my servants and by the ministering of angels and by my own voice and by the voice of thunderings. He's establishing how God uses his revelation,

how he uses his voice, and he's establishing the prophet as one who is speaking for God, which is extremely critical. And then he leads us into the gathering of Israel, which as we know from President Nelson is one of the most important topics of all time that we can talk about. The greatest work, yeah. Yeah, the greatest work.

So he's trying to lead us into the gathering of Israel and then you see verse 30, the great millennium and then the time where Satan is bound and then verse 34, behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world, treasure these things up in your hearts and let the solitude of eternity rest upon your minds. I just love that so much. Be sober, keep all my commandments, even so amen. So he's gonna just bring it all in. Two things that impressed me this year with the prophet are these little hints that the Lord drops in these sections. And there's no possible way Joseph Smith knows what it's coming. You know, the next 10 years hold.

And you're getting tiny little hints here and there, you know, first with Restored Power and then you know, and then it was, oh, we're gonna have a church. Wait, what? A church? Oh, and now we're gonna move to Ohio. What is that about Ohio? And then Barb, as you've been pointing out, I'm preparing you with an endowment of power. The Lord is just kind of moving them along so slowly and gently. And the second thing that's impressed me is that the Lord takes these situations like mishevel and turns it into a revelation about the second coming, the millennium, and the gathering of Israel.

Why not, right? Yeah, like it's not a simple answer to, oh yeah, let's, I'm trying to understand this. That could have been one verse. Don't listen to her. Yeah, and instead he says, okay, now that we've addressed that, it almost reminds me of Joseph Smith saying,

many other things which he said into me, which I cannot write at this time. He's just so generous with, oh, you know, be prepared for the second coming, be prepared for the gathering of Israel, the great millennium in verse 30, Satan to be bound. And then he finishes with such a beautiful like capstone statement, I am Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world. We just talked about. I mean, that is, yeah, it's like, I think it was Mike Wilcox who said, Joseph Smith writes with the pen of heaven, and he does.

So, so well said, Hank, I just think, we're gonna see this later on in the Dr. Kevin, so I'm not gonna blow it yet, but there are going to be other times in the future where the Lord says, you think he can write a revelation? Yeah, right. I was just trying. It was just trying, but in this case, it's Lord says, you think you can write a revelation? Just write. I was just trying. It was just trying.

But in this case, it's almost like you're saying, okay, Mrs. Hubble, I'll show you a revelation. Right? So you kind of put your place, we see that here, like, you think you have a revelation? I'll use my profit. And then you have verse section 45, which is coming, is like, oh, let me just really give you a revelation.

Like if anybody's wondering about Mrs. Hubble, that you should no longer have need to wonder because this is what revelation looks like for the prophet. Yeah. And we see that today with President Nelson as well. I think it reminds me of, it reminds me of, of Elder Holland saying the adversary cannot imitate the real thing. No. The real thing blows you out of the water.

And that leads us to section 44, Barb. We're going to have another conference. We sure are. It's the first conference in Ohio, but the fourth conference of the church, this is extremely significant. Again, we're in February of 1831. The church has already been established in New York, but this conference is going to allow for the church to be established now in Ohio. So Ohio has their own rules, their own regulations, their own laws, government laws, and they are going to be needing to satisfy these laws. And so this fourth general conference that we want to call it that way is these elders gathering together. They're

going to organize the church according to the laws of Ohio. And that's where we're getting the Section 44. Yeah, that's verse four. According to the laws of Ohio. And that's where we're getting the section 44. Yeah, that's verse four. According to the laws of man, anything else in section 44 you want us to know, Barbara, I love how he says, I want you to get called together, right? And I'll pour out my spirit to assemble yourselves together. The day they assemble themselves together, that that reminds me of general conference every April and every October, I feel a pouring out of the spirit and increase of the spirit. Yeah, we have about at this point, we're close to 2000 members living now, if I remember

right, now that we have all this, this combination coming together. And the Lord is going to really talk to this group about the importance of discipleship as they're now in Ohio. They're going to be some really hard, heavy times coming in their way. He's going to talk to them about loving each other and caring about each other. And you know, he has this, that your enemies may not have power over you. And he kind of gives them these things that they should be doing. To be able to withstand some of these evil forces,

and he talks about power in verse four. And then he also talks about some of these simple things. Keep my law in verse five, and then verse six, visit the poor and the needy administer to their relief that they may be kept until all things may be done according to my law. And these are the kinds of things that, as you already alluded to, that we hear in general conference, that we love each other, that we take care of each other, that we are assembled together

and there are purposes of and power that comes from joining together in gathering. And this is continuing that process of the gathering of Israel. But it's also the gathering of Israel, but it's also the gathering of the saints at that time. Again, as Elder Bednar says, one of the major purposes of gathering is to build these temples, and the purpose of temples is to help us come to Christ,

et cetera, et cetera. So it's just this eternal round that we talk about in the scriptures. The work rolls forth here in these sections. We're gonna keep going, keep on going. Oh, what a treat, Barbara. Thank you so much Yeah, I think you know, it's been so fun. Yeah, Barbara. You are you are a lot of fun. I knew you would be The scriptures are fun. This is I mean, it's a kick in the pants

Can you go wrong? These are some fun scriptures here. Yeah, they say yeah, this is really fun Just like talking with some friends at the Cougar 8 Barb your historian you're a gospel scholar you've been teaching the scriptures You've been teaching church history for over 20 years, though you don't look at. Thanks, Frank. You either. Yeah, I would love to hear your personal. You either, John. I would love to hear your personal thoughts. Joseph Smith, the restoration. What it's done for you personally. Why, as

John said, you wrote a chapter. Why we stay. Yeah, that's such a loaded question I have so many thoughts. I was just sure it's short experience when I was a teenager. I had this horrible dream And I was running all over Downtown Salem, Oregon where I'm from trying to find something and it was so it was so random I mean I ran into George Washington and neighbor have Lincoln and Harriet Beachers I mean I was running all these historians everywhere. And to like famous actors and basketball players. And finally, I stopped. I don't even know who I stopped in front of. And somebody just said, Barb, what are you looking for? And I just said, I have to

know the truth. I just have to know the truth. And I remember that dream so well because I was so intrigued and as a child I asked questions, I was raised in a family where questions were critical. And I'm grateful that my parents allowed that. I remember coming, my dad was a state president when I was a teenager and he was a convert to the church and I remember one day him saying to me after a basketball game, I actually was a volleyball game and he was so, he could tell that I was just pretty much distraught and I started crying and he was like, did you lose? And I was one day him saying to me, after a basketball game, I actually was a volleyball game and he was so, he could tell that I was just pretty much distraught and I started crying. And he was like, did you lose? And I was like, well, yeah, but we always lose.

I, that wasn't the problem. The problem was I was riding home on the bus with a number of my friends and they were asking me every question under the sun about the gospel. Why we were baptizing people for the dead and why the horns and why Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon, where are the gold plates and all these questions? And I said to my dad something to the effect of, I will never go to church again until I know this is true. And I was so scared to say that because I had 11 older siblings and they were pretty much perfect in my eyes and so were my parents.

But I was serious. And my dad just simply said to me, well, what are you going to do about it? Rather than just saying, no, you're going to church or anything. And sometimes that works. Every parent has a different relationship and it works differently with different kids. But in my case, he did the right thing for me.

And I believe he had a revelation to ask that question. And it put me on a search for truth through the scriptures and through prayer and asking additional questions. And I remember clearly reading in Timothy, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. And I remember I had every answer for every question my friends were asking me. And in fact, it was embarrassing how much I knew intellectually at that age, but didn't have a testimony of. And I thought I did, but I recognized quickly I didn't. And during that next few years is a teenager, I just studied everything I could and took things to the Lord over and over

and over again into my teachers and to my parents. And I just, I legitimately searched for truth and I can say I found it. I can say I found it the same way that revelations are being given in the doctrine of covenants. I found it piece by piece, line upon line, precepted by precept. The Lord made himself known to me at that age, but he continued to make himself known to me. And he's continued to let me struggle. He's continued to let me get frustrated. He's continued to guide me in questions. And he's guided me in giving me more questions. But what I have found is, I have studied more and I have studied the scriptures,

as I have pondered deeply, and mostly as I listened to the Lord and spoken with him, and counseled with him, he has clearly taught me that these things that I know are true. So much so that just as Nephi and other prophets of old and women as well, I'm sure can't keep it inside. I know it's true. That's why I served a mission. That's why I teach the gospel. That's why I continue to study. That's why I continue to love it because the more I study, the deeper I get. I love, I mean, I am nerdy, but I got my latest copy of the Joseph Smith papers and I ran up to my office and just started sucking it.

I just wanted to soak every piece of it because it's true. And the more I read and the more I study, the more the Lord's Spirit testifies to me of what I am studying is true. And now it's built in that confidence, I guess, in me, where I want to have more questions and I want to study more because he continues to prove himself to me over and over and over again. To the point where I would say I, this sounds strong, but I do believe this, I may be having this conversation with you, John and Hank, I don't know, but I do know that God lives. That is more true to me. And my testimony of Jesus Christ is more true to me than what

I can see with my eyes and hear with my ears. It's just true. I just, I just know it. What I read confirms it, what I study confirms it, what I think about confirms it, what the spirit teaches me confirms it. It's just, it's in me and through me. Yeah. And to us, who you are confirms it. You're a joy to be around. You're a joy to, you know, to be friends with. John, we've got another episode in the books and every time I think we can't top it, we top it. Yeah.

And I think you guys are good. If we were going through one of my biology textbooks, it would just not be this fun. But we get to have these scriptures to go through and that is part of why this works in spite of us and maybe because of us, but maybe in spite of us. I'm with you there. I'm with you there. We want to thank Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner for being with us today. You've just been a phenomenal guest. Thank you for everyone who took the time to listen. We're grateful for your support. We're grateful and thankful to our producers, Steve and Shannon Swanson, our production team, David Perry, Lisa Spice, and Jamie Nilsson. And we hope you will all join us on our next episode

of Follow Him. you