Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 64-66 : Part II : Dr. S. Michael Wilcox

Episode Date: June 13, 2021

We continue with Brother S. Michael Wilcox as he uses Russian literature to expound on the power of Doctrine and Covenants 65. What does giving someone an onion have to do with being invited to the long-awaited marriage feast? As they transition to Section 66, they focus on the importance of bearing testimony--of first believing and acting on that belief--and then receiving a witness. Listen as Brother Wilcox bears his powerful testimony of the goodness of Jesus Christ’s gospel.Show notes: https://followhim.co/episodesYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcast

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. Let's go into section 65. It's short. It's only six verses. And I've heard it characterized as a prayer. Is that right? Am I thinking of the right one? It says that in this section, heading. Now, it's not a really a prayer. And do you get to the last verse, essentially, is the

actual prayer. It's a prayer that God will come to believe in not only the latter days, Saint, early 1800s, a religious world, but in they brought a religious world, was that Christ would come when His kingdom was established on earth. Okay, so we can hurry Him here if we can get this thing built. Okay, and so part of this is this longing that we get the kingdom of God built upon earth, so there's something for Jesus to come to. Maybe with the idea of hurrying Him up a little bit. Okay, we didn't hit that back in 64, some of the second coming things, section 64 says, when is he coming? And the answer is tomorrow. So you can say, I know when Jesus

is coming, when? He's coming tomorrow. And back in 64. It's going to be wonderful when he comes. And to me, the key idea of Section 65 is verses three and four. A voice crying, you know, prepare. He starts 65 with that word here again, Harkin, listen. Make the past straight because I'm coming. We're going to prepare for a wonderful thing. Prepare the way of the Lord, prepare what the supper of the lamb, make ready for the bridegroom. Pray unto the Lord, call upon His holy name. Make known His wonderful works.

That's that idea we talked about before. If the world sees wonderful works among the saints, then they'll be drawn to them. So make them known, verse five, that the inhabitants thereof may receive it. I make the works. People see it as wonderful. They're ready to receive it. Now, really, it's a little ironic here, but for section 65, you really need a Russian Orthodox sitting here at the microphone and not me because a Russian orthodox in particular, Greek orthodox would also, they understand section 65 better than Latter-day Saints understand section 65.

They may have, they may understand section 65 better than Joseph Smith himself understood section 65 better than Joseph Smith himself understood section 65 when he wrote it. And so let me give you a little background on orthodoxy and the supper of the Lamb and the bridegroom. So then I'll read a Russian author instead of explaining it, try and get people to feel section 65. Section 65, if it's going to be a prayer, I've got to feel it. The Orthodox really feel it. For Latter-day Saints, the sacrament is a memorial for Western Christianity, the sacramentism memorial. We look back at Gethsemane and the Cross and his dying force and bringing about redemption and mercy and forgiveness. It's a backward looking thing. But for the Orthodox, it's a forward-looking thing. It is not a memorial, it is a celebration,

or a reminder that there will be a celebration coming. What is that celebration? The marriage supper of the Lamb, which is what Joseph is referring to here in that third verse. We're going to prepare for the marriage supper of the Lamb. A section 27, just as a side note, is a very orthodox section. That's when the Savior says, one day I'm going to come and we're going to have the sacrament and Moroni is going to be there in Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are going to be there and everybody is going to be there for this wonderful sacrament meeting. And you're invited to, okay? That's section 27, very orthodox. If you're in an orthodox church, they have all the icons around you and there's the

patriarchs and the apostles and Jesus and Mary and the prophets and you're all having the sacrament together. So, the orthodox would say, what you guys are looking forward to in section 27, we celebrate every single Sunday. We look forward to the marriage supper. It's a reminder to us to live in a way that we can be in that future supper with the bridegroom. It's a forward looking thing, right? It's not a past looking thing. I'm looking ahead to it. And because it's a supper, a feast, that has made the story of Cana of Galilee and the marriage story, a very important story for Orthodox, for the Russian Orthodox, because it's a marriage and it's a foreshadowing they teach of the marriage supper. The first miracle of Jesus was not given to alleviate pain. The first miracle of Jesus was given to increase joy.

We're learning something about the revealer, okay? Yeah. In that particular miracle. So one of the greatest novels, and again, I hope I'm approaching this right for you. One of the greatest novels in the history of the world is by a dust thiefsky called the brothers Karamazov. And in that the most Christ-like fictional character ever created is introduced to us. It's an Eastern Orthodox, a Russian Orthodox novice, he's studying in a monastery.

His name is Allioshia, and you can't read the brother's caramazov and not love that person. He is so Christlike. He represents the good spirit in all of us. He is the spirit of Christianity, beautiful, beautiful individual. And he just goes around doing good. And he is trained by an old father named Zasima

who's also a delight for you, love these two characters. And father Zasima has died. I've set the stage for this. Hopefully, I'm doing it well enough. Father Zosima's died and the belief of the peasants in Russia was that if you were a holy and a sacred man, when you died, you didn't smell. But as soon as Father, you know, it's a peasant belief, okay? That this proved you were holy. But Father's Osema, when he dies, the corpse begins to smell and it starts to smell and most people's eyes prematurely. And so they begin to wonder if it was really a good man. And this just pains Alliostia to the heart because he loved this man.

And so he's in the monastery, kneeling in front of Father Zaseem as coffin. And as he kneels there, in sadness, the room expands. And suddenly he is in Cana of Galilee at the marriage supper in Cana. John chapter 2. John chapter 2, he's been transported in his mind, he is back in that spot. Nealine, only now the room has changed. Now I'm going to, I'm going to just read a little bit and then I got to tell you one other little thing so it, it all comes together,

okay. So this is the first part. This is, I'm in his mind, okay. But what's this? What's this? Why is the room expanding? Oh, yes, after all, it's a marriage, a wedding. Yes, of course. Here are the guests. Here is the young couple sitting together, but who is this? Who? The room has expanded again. Who's that rising, do his feet behind that big table over there? Is he here, too? Why he is in his coffin. But he, too, is here. He has risen to his feet. Has seen me as coming over here. Oh, reason to his feet has seen me as coming over here. Oh, merciful Lord. I'm going to stop it here for just a second. So he sees Father's a seam and now at Cana. Now in order to understand what Father's a seam that tells him, there's another character in the Brothers' Caramazov. I can't believe

I'm teaching Russian literature here. But I can't think of any other way for people to get the power of Section 65. Like I say, you need a Russian here to tell you that's not me. And there's another character in a woman called Grušinka, who was kind of a fallen woman. But Alejoša has, in his loving heart, recognized the goodness in her. And it changes her, right?

And she tells him a story, it's a wonderful little story about an onion. And so the story goes like this. There's a woman in hell. She's down there in the lake of Fire and Bremstone. And her guardian angel is paying to see her that way. And so the guardian angel goes to God and pleads for her and says, isn't there anything we can do? And he thinks, the angel thinks of one good thing she did. And he says, she gave an onion from the garden to a beggar woman one day. And I will tell God that. And remember, Muhammad, I told you that

good deeds are always there. Bad deeds can be forgiven, but good deeds never go away. Dostoez's belief was that the memory of a good thing that we had done was always with us and could be very powerful later to turn us. And so God says to the angel, take that very same onion and offer to her in the lake, have a reach for it. And if you can pull her out of the lake with that onion, she can go to heaven. And so the angel takes the onion and he offers it down to the woman. He says, take hold of this. And she does. Slowly, carefully, carefully, he pulls the woman out of the lake.

But as she's just leaving the lake, the other sinners, seeing that she's being pulled out, grab onto her feet so they can be pulled out with her. And she kicks at them and says, it was my onion, not yours, at which case the onion breaks. And she drops back into the lake. And the angel weeps and weeps and weeps for her. Now Grouchenka tells Alliose that story and she says, I know the story very well because I am that woman. I've not done any good thing in my life. I've only given one onion.

And she had done something good for alligotia. Now again, the idea was not that one thing will save you. The idea that one thing can start pulling you. But not only you, it might also pull other people with you. So that's the story. Now I'm going to go back to Alliostia at the wedding. Okay, so you'll understand what Father Zasima says. Alliostia approached by Father Zasima, who's dead. Yes, him, him did he approach the little wise and old man with fine wrinkles on his face, joyful and quietly laughing. His eyes shone. He too was at the feast, had also been called to the wedding in Cana of Galilee. I too, dear fellow, have been called.

Called and summoned, the quiet voice said clearly above him, You too must come and be with us. Let us be merry and gay. The little wise and old man continued. Let us drink the new wine, the wine of new and great joy. You see how many guests there are. Here are the bride and bridegroom. Why do you marvel at me?

I gave my onion, and so I am here. Many here have given only one onion, just one little onion. What do our other deeds matter? And you too, my quiet fellow, you too, my meek boy, you too have given this day an onion to a woman who hungered for it. Begin dear fellow, begin meek one, your task. And do you see the sun? Do you see him? I'm afraid I dare not look, Alliostia whispered. Don't be afraid of him. He is awesome in his

greatness before us, in his loftiness, but he is infinitely merciful, has assumed our likeness, As assumed our likeness, and with us is Mary and Gay, turns water into wine, that the joy of the guests be not broken off. Awaits new guests, calls ever new ones, and will do so until the end of the ages. Here they come, bring new wine. You see, they are bringing the vessels. Something was burning in Alliose's heart. Something suddenly filled him to the point of physical pain, tears of joy burst from his soul. And he goes outside because the room is not big enough for the love that's expanding in his heart. He goes out under the stars and the light of all the stars coalesce in his soul as if the message of all the universe was mercy and forgiveness. And he weeps for the earth. And a voice says, drench the earth with these tears of yours, Aliyah, should drench them with these tears of joy. And Aliyah now prays for forgiveness, not for himself, but for all creation, believing that all creation would be

praying forgiveness for himself. Now I read a lot of Dostoevsky and I'm telling you when he wrote that he was writing Scripture, okay, that is literary scripture. That's there's a power in it. And that's the special, that's the spirit of section 65. We want the supper, we want to go to the supper, the marriage supper of the Lamb, and we're all invited to that wonderful thing. And nobody has to feel that they are not welcome. I gave my onion. I love that line. I gave my onion. And so I'm invited. We talked earlier about Elder Hollens to talk on the parable that the Labor's in the Vineyard, that's a big parable for the Orthodox again.

If the marriage of Canes big, that's a big parable also. In fact, it is the Easter sermon. Easter is the major celebratory moment in Orthodoxy and Russian orthodoxy. The Nativity, the birth of Christ is for Western Christianity, for Eastern Christianity it's Easter. Everybody goes around on Easter morning and says, Christ is risen and you answer them. Indeed he is risen. And they're just full of joy. And they're looking forward

to being with him. They're all invited to sub every Sunday. They're being reminded, I'm invited. I'm invited. And there's a special sermon called the Easter Sermon, 1500 years old. And in it, the sermon, the priest who's giving the sermon, offers an invitation. And he quotes the parable. He says, if there's anybody here who is labored from the first hour, let them come forth and be part of the feast. And if any of you have labored from the third hour, you come. And those who have labored from the sixth hour, don't hesitate. You too are invited. And those who only labored from the ninth hour, let there be no fear in your heart.

You too may come, and those who came at the eleventh hour, be not hesitant, be not fearful, for you too are invited, for forgiveness is risen from the grave. It's not a body that's risen from the grave. Forgiveness is risen from the grave. And then the ground feast. Okay. It's just a wonderful thing and section 65 in our, you know, we don't have that concept like the Orthodox do.

We don't quite have that emotional connection, but you can see why it's a prayer. And if we really understand the supper of the Lamb, the bridegroom, the marriage, the wonderful works we're going to make known to the Word, then of course we're going to prepare his way and make him straight so we can come. We pray that we'll do our work here on earth so that he can come and we'll all be part of that wonderful thing. If I, if we go to Luke chapter 12, it's a supper, it's a feast, right? Well, who's the wager? Who serves the feast? Most of us would think, well, Jesus is the bridegroom. You and I are the bride. You and I are the bride. you and I are the bride. You and I are the bride.

But Luke 12 says, Jesus serves the feast. He's the one who gives, the feast of love, it's a feast of joy. The closest you and I may get to it is, once in my life, I think I experienced a little bit,

the marriage supper of the Lamb and the bridegroom was July 19, 1972 when I married Lara Chipman in the Alberta temple. You probably can remember the day of your wedding. How do you think I felt that day, especially now that she's gone. As a best day of my life, best day to be alive. And I love that girl. She's always 18 in my mind. Always 18 in my mind. She's always the bride. And I can't express how deep that was. And God says to me, Michael, do you understand the way you felt for Laurie on that day and as it grew, that's the way Jesus feels about you,

the way you love Laurie. He loves you and you love him. And one day we'll have the marriage. He's the bridegroom. I'm the bride. Who's the one that's the most loved at a wedding? It's the bride. The bride gets all the attention. And Jesus says the bridegroom. So we we want to be beautiful for him. And the beauty is our righteousness and our goodness. That's what section 65 for me is all about. But I can say, I can't, I can't just teach it.

I try and make people feel it. They have to feel it because if they feel it, we offer the prayer. And how does the book of Revelation end actually? How does the whole Bible end? actually. How does the whole Bible end? It ends in this prayer. It ends with a single word, come, come Lord Jesus, come. We want you to come. If somebody said to me, Michael, Jesus is coming tomorrow. Section 64, that's what he says. Section 64, I'm coming tomorrow. Are you prepared? The section 65 is all about prepare. He's coming tomorrow. Are you prepared? You know how I'd answer. I'd say I'm not prepared. I'm not prepared. But let him come, because he will take care of me. He has my heart, he has my mind. I can't always do it the way he wants me to do it, but let him come.

I will put my trust totally in him in his love and in his mercy. Let him come. I pray, come tomorrow Lord, come, come. Because I know I'm invited. I give my onions. And everybody out there, you give your onions. You just keep giving those onions,

be not weary and well doing, do the little things, you are laying the foundation of a great work. And that work is the development of your own Christ-like character. And you all have willing and ready minds. And that's what he wants. That's what he wants. That's section 65 to me. You reminded me of a quote from, I think I actually got this from you, Mike, from your book on William Tindale. It was called Fire in the Bones. And this is William Tyndale talking about scripture.

He said, though we read scripture and babble of it ever so much, yet if we know not the use of it and wherefor it was given, it profiteth us nothing at all. It is not enough to read and talk of it only, it being scripture. We must desire God day and night to open our eyes to make us understand and feel wherefore the scripture was given. Understand and feel. And you said, I don't want you to just read it, I want you to feel it. That's a William Tindale. Yeah, we want to, we want to, I could say we want to see, it's not so much the doctrine that we, what is revealed,

we want to see the revealer revealer. We want to find him behind the words and, and Section 65 has to be felt. You got to feel it. Yeah, yeah. But let's go look at Section 66. You've mentioned a couple of times William Clelland and what's what's happening here? Well, William E. McLelland, you know, he's not going to last in the church, unfortunately. He'll have some problems and eventually leave. They'll

the church will try even when they go out to Utah, the leadership who knew him because he was one of the original 12 apostles. We'll try to bring him back and he will write kind of a sad but just somewhat gracious letter back saying, I just don't believe it anymore. So it's kind of a sad story. It's an interesting section. Verse three is a verse that we can relate to ourselves. It says, you are clean, but not all. I think that probably says that to all.

We all have things we need to change. There are some things that aren't pleasing to me, but I'll show them to you. And that's kind of a scary thing, at all, whatever, for me. I'm sure the Lord would say, Mike, you're clean. You're doing good, but there's some things that you need to change. Would you like me to show them to you? And my answer probably back to me, that is, you know, Lord, I really don't need you to show them to me because I'm already aware of what they are. But I have noticed that when I give him that response, what often happens is things that I maybe feel are the ones that I most have to work on, and maybe I'm most ashamed of. God's not that distressed by.

Sometimes I think I'll weaken handle that, Mike. And there are other things that maybe I don't think is such a big deal that maybe he says, well, maybe you gotta work on this a little bit more, you know. I think the one thing I really like in that I would at least maybe give it in thought on in section 66. We've mentioned it before, but I really like verse 7. He's telling to go on the Easter and lands. Again, okay, you're not clean. You've got some problems, you know, and I'll show you that, but I'm still calling you. I want you to preach the gospel, and we can handle the negatives of your life. It's the positives. We got to get into it.

So you go into the eastern lands, bear testimony in every place, we're onto every people, and in their synagogues, reasoning with the people. We see that a lot, you know, don't revile reason. You probably already did section 50 brilliantly, I'm sure, where the Lord says, I'm going to reason with you. Isn't that interesting? Here's God who doesn't need a reason with us. He can just command. He's still reasons. It's all reason with you. And I want you to go and read. He's always the example of what he asks us to do. All reason with you. The first principle we learn in Section 121 of priesthood leadership of any any leadership, is persuasion.

Persuasion, back in the days when they were burning people, the Reformation, Erasmus, was one of the first human, it's one of the first Reformation. A beautiful, beautiful man from the Netherlands. And he said, it takes no great effort to burn a little man. But it's a great achievement if you can persuade him. So the proper way is to reason with people, not to revolve you, reason, you work with them. And God does that, like I said, back to section 50, I'll reason with you.

You can show us the example. The idea that I would just give a thought, because I've been thinking about it lately, is bear testimony. And I'm just going to take us back to the Book of Mormon for a second. Another way that testimony can be born. What is the chief testimony phrase of the church? I know. I know. I know. I know the church. And what's the word we used to describe

the church? True. The church is true. There's nothing wrong with that phrase. It's just it's like other things we sometimes use is so much that it loses some meaning. One of the things I do occasionally in Scripture is I pretend I don't have the word anymore and see what I use instead. So, for instance, if you didn't have the word prayer, what would you use? And the one I come up with is poor out. And somehow for me, poor out is better than prayer. What if you didn't have the word atonement? Oh my gosh, would that hamper us? What are you gonna use to try and describe what Jesus does for us if you don't have that word anymore? Well, what if we didn't have the word?

So the phrase, I know this church is true. I'm gonna go to ether chapter four, verse 11 and 12, and then maybe if we have time, we can jump over to Moroni. Notice what the Lord, what we have in ether, I just want to give us another way of bearing testimony. That's all because that's what the doctrine comes to all the time, bear testimony, go out and teach,

bear testimony, chest, and the focus we always have is on the word true, the church is true. Verse 11, Ether 4, He that believe at these things, which I have spoken, Him will I visit with the manifestations of my spirit,

and He shall know, that's where we like to use, and bear record. Now, do you notice anything strange about that? It's backwards. It's backwards from a Roni 10-4 that we always use. I read the Book of Mormon, or I study the church.

I pray about it. The Spirit tells me it's true. Now I can believe it and know. But here he's saying, no, I want you to believe first. Believe first. Then the Spirit will manifest it. And then you'll know and you can bear record. And I see, when, Lord, this is backwards, you've got to tell me it's true first.

And you tell me through the Spirit, and then I bear record. He says, no, you believe first. Now, how do I get to that believe spot? The second sentence in verse 11, because of my spirit, he shall know that these things are true. Semicolon, for it persuadeeth men to do good. And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me for good, cometh of none, save it be of me. I am the same, that leadeth man. There's that leadeth them, reasons with them, persuades them, leads man to all good.

Now, Moroni 10-4, our major verse, I love Moroni 10-4. Put all the responsibility on God, pretty much, doesn't it? He's got to tell me it's true. Here God puts it on me. He says, Mike, you have to make a decision. Okay, you're reading the book of Mormon, you're reading the doctrine of Covenants, you're studying Joseph Smith, you're trying to decide if it's true and right. What I want you to do is decide, does it persuade you to do good? You have to come to that decision. And so I read the book of Mormon and when I'm done with it I say, yeah, this book persuades me to do good. I just read section 64, what does the persuade me to do? Forgive.

So what do I know? I know it's of God. That's what he's saying. Now I'll manifest the spirit, okay? But you need to find out and decide if it persuades to do good. I get two more wonderful verbs and then I'll tie it into section 66. In Moroni 7, you know, which is Mormon's great speech on faith, hope, charity, and always at humility, the Book of Mormon has four virtues, not just faith, hope, and charity, faith, hope, charity, humility.

hope and charity, faith hope, charity, humility. So if I go to Marona I7 verse 12 and I'm going to do this quickly, all things which are good, cometh of God. Then verse 13, behold that which is of God inviteeth and in thysoth, now I get two nice new verbs to go with persuadeth, inviteeth and in thysoth to do good continually, wherefore everything which inviteeth and in thysoth to do good and to love God and to serve Him is inspired of God. Skip verse 15, down the verse 15, it is given unto you to judge, you got to do something don't just come and ask me you make a decision. Is this doctrine in covenants? Is this Joseph Smith? Does this Russell L. Nelson, does this church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Does this Jesus of Nazareth, my heavens, does this Confucius or Buddha or Shakespeare or Michelangelo's art or Beethoven's music or spread it out as far as you want. Does it persuade me and invite me and entice me to do good, to love God, to serve Him? You judge, the way to judge is as plain that she may know where the perfect knowledge as the daylight is

from the dark night. I show unto you the way to judge everything which invited to do good and persuade to believe in Christ is sent forth by the power. You look at Alma 32. I think Alma 32 is interesting in that Alma 32, you plant the seed and when he first mentions planting the seed of testimony in your heart, which is what William E. McClellan has got to go out and do. He's got to go out and plant the seed, he's got a bare testimony. He starts by saying, if the seed is a true seed,

the word we like, I know the church is true. And a good seed, it'll do these things for you. And then he drops one of those two words, all through the rest of the Alma 32, which of the two words do you think Alma drops? True or good? Drops true. He drops true. And it's good. So what is, every now and then I do this, So what is, every now and then I do this, sometimes I wonder if it disturbs my ward members. I don't say I know this church is true, I say I want to bear my testimony, which is what my clueless is supposed to do. I know this church is good. I know the Book of Mormon is good. I know that Joseph Smith was a good person. He taught good things. He expanded man's concept of himself to a pre-mortal world on one side and an eternal divine destiny on the other side. He made God more approachable and humanity nobler, this boy prophet.

He taught us that obscure boys and girls can speak to God and be listened to and answered. I know He's good. I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints inspires goodness in people. Its people are not perfect people, but I challenge you to find a better people on the face of the earth than the Latter-day Saints who with willing, hard and mind are trying every way they can to be like Christ.

I don't know that I have born a weaker testimony than if I said, I know this church is true, I know the Joseph was a true prophet. Even of Jesus, I know Jesus of Nazareth was a good man. He taught good things. And so we take that testimony out to the world. Sometimes true can be a little bit harder to discern, but goodness is a little bit easier to discern. I know the men who lead this church and the women are good people,

and they're trying to do good things. I know the doctrine and covenants, I believe. And you know, I believe is okay. It doesn't have to be I know. I believe. I hope those are okay also. That's what God is again trying to get the feel of section 66, what he's offering to William and E. McClellan, and that he offers to everybody. He's always telling them all, go out, they're wonderful things, you know? Go out into the world and show them all the goodness, and they'll be drawn to you as you show them all that goodness. It says that in verse 11, you'll push many people to Zion with songs of everlasting joy

upon their heads. They'll be drawn to that. Yeah, it's the joy of the gospel. You know, and that's a good place to end that joy because I love section 128. Joseph Smith asked the question, here's a question we should all ask ourselves. What do we hear in the gospel, which we have received? And you know, sadly, some Latter-day Saints here,

guilt and toxic perfectionism and in adequacy and judgment, and toxic perfectionism and inadequacy and judgment. And it's one time where Joseph Smith answers his own question. Now, what do we hear in the gospel we have received? And what does he say? A voice of gladness. A voice of mercy. That's what we hear. And then he repeats that over and over again. And he gives us

what I call the great hymn of the Restoration, as he thinks about all that God has given. He thinks about all the doctrine and covenant sections that have come before section 128, Nahu period, end of his life coming. And as he looks back, shall we not go forward and so great a cause? On, on, on to the victory. The Orthodox would say, on, on to the marriage supper, you know, on to the feast where Jesus Himself will be there. And that's the message, the testimony we bear to the world. Yes, it's true. I love the word. I know this church is true. But I love better. I know this church and Joseph and Jesus and the scriptures are good. They are good. And that is the goodness we want to offer to the world.

So the world will come singing songs of everlasting joy. Like Dostoevsky said, the marriage supper will be, let us be gay. Jesus' first miracle, make us happy. That's what we want. Beautiful. You have been studying and teaching from the scriptures for how long now? Well, I'm retired, you know, so I do tours, you know, we take people around the world. I taught for about 40 years, full-time, mostly institute, but you know, we've been teaching these since mission field

of six decades anyway. Six decades. I think our listeners would love to hear personal thoughts on Joseph Smith, his contemporaries, the restoration. I think I've been really blessed in being able to travel a great deal. And because I'm taking people, and I want them to love everywhere they go, I'm trying to find the goodness that every culture, religion, people, country on earth,

people say what's your favorite country? And I say God didn't make a bad country. And I think what I have taken from that, and then I'll apply it to Joseph Smith is, I think I grew up with a very narrow perspective. That God spoke to man through prophets and the Old Testament and the apostles and Jesus, and we had the Book of Mormon, and there was a restoration, and we'll give a little credit to some of the reformers, but it was narrow, you know?

And having read a great deal now of world religions and history, and this is what I would say. I believe that God has been speaking to his children. Every way he can, all the time, everywhere. But that he has many different voices. And that it's not a limited, you know, it was a great apostasy. He's been speaking every way he can, everywhere, all the time. And if you can't hear the voice of a prophet or an apostle, maybe you can hear the voice of a sage or a poet or a playwright or an artist or an architect or a scientist or in the lives of just really good people. And as I look at all that truth, all that goodness, I come to understand, I think, what Joseph Smith meant, that he

probably maybe himself didn't even understand it at the level that we can understand it. What the fullness of times means, that you and I are offered here in 2021, all the goodness and all the truth and all the beauty that God has everywhere, all the time, been sending down on earth. It is so massive, so vast, I cannot comprehend it all, I can't get it all in. There is no end to goodness. And in the midst of all this majesty and goodness, here is this boy in a growth of a tree's praying. And he belongs in that great conversation. What he gave to the world and goodness and truth and beauty belongs right up there with Confucius and the Buddha and Moses and our Book of Mormon people. He's very comfortable in that group. Like I say, this is the audacity of Joseph that's so

magnificent. I'm going to give you temples again. Nobody's doing temples. I'm going to correct your scriptures. I'm going to give you a new scripture. We're going to bring apostles back where the body is a good thing. Like I say, he gave man a pre-mortally-turned, section 93, we've always existed. We're destined to be gods. Something CS Lewis comes up with out of the New Testament. He just fits and rises. The more I study things in the world, the more I love Joseph Smith. Because the greater he is, he fits. You know, it's easy to be a critic. And there's a lot of people that criticize Joseph. It's a lot harder to be a creator. And look at, he created the latter day, St. people, maybe his greatest creation. We have our problems.

We're not perfect, our history's not perfect. There are things I wish I could change in our history. But we're trying, we're a magnificently striving people. We're trying, we're a magnificently striving people. And it's Joseph that really helped to create all that. He's, I love the prophet Joseph Smith. But it's that boy, you know, I think the greatest words Joseph Smith ever said is to his mother after the first vision, all as well, all as well, all as well. Because of Joseph Smith, all as well in my life, no matter what happens, for what he taught

me. And then he said, I have learned for myself. And I love those five words because he says, you too can learn for yourself. You can learn for yourself. There are a few very, very unique people, I'll conclude with this, in history, that I think had a special gift. You know, we talk about the gifts of the Spirit. That was section 46.

There is a very rare, I believe it's a gift. This is Wilcox 35, too, whatever. I believe there is gift called the gift of religion for lack of or of better word. That some people are just gifted to bring into existence faith, a faith, religion, a people, a community, a way of life. Few people had it. Confucius did it and made the Chinese, what is so wonderful about the Asian people today.

The Buddha had it, Muhammad had it, Jesus certainly had it, Moses had it, and I believe Joseph Smith simply had the gift of religion. The gift of being able to give to his fellow man a way of life, a philosophy, an approach that caused them to yearn to be better people, be better people to be all that they can be to. We were born to be large in soul, large in soul. And Joseph Smith showed us that largeness in a way very few people can. And so I love, I love Joseph Smith. One day I'm going to tell him, I'm going to tell him how grateful I am for what he did. With all his faults, with all his faults, which Jesus himself admits, but then let us celebrate the good and forget everything else because that's what I want people to do with me. Anyway, thank you for

letting me talk about Joseph Smith, just talking about him and the doctrine of covenants and the Savior and his mercy is wonderful. It's wonderful. John, I just don't, I, what is it? It is good for us to be here, right? Is that the phrase where it is good for us to be? I love when Peter said that. That's the understatement of all time, right, that up on the mound of transfiguration. And yeah, this, I was just going to say, uh, Hank, and this is one that I, I want to listen to again, like right now, and, uh, and just take better notes. I learned a lot and I learned the, the spirit of some of these sections. I've been blessed. Thank you, brother Wilcox. My pleasure. Thank you. It was mine. You know, I've thought recently Jesus with the children.

The children needed him, but he needed the children too. They were something beautiful. Suffer little children to come unto me, not so I can bless them, but because I need them around me. And that's usually the way it is for all things. We all, it's nice to feel maybe you did some good out there for somebody, but I'm the main beneficiary of what we've done today. And so I thank you for the opportunity.

We absolutely loved it. We want to thank you, Dr. Michael Wilcox, for being with us today. We want to thank all of you for listening. We are so grateful for your support. We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Swanson. Our production crew, an awesome team, David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Nielsen, Kyle Nelson, Will Stoughton, and Maria Hilton.

And we hope that you will join us on our next episode of Follow Him. you