Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 84 Part 2 : Dr. Barbara Gardner

Episode Date: July 25, 2021

Are both men and women instructed to study Doctrine and Covenants, Section 84? Dr. Gardner teaches how the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood involves responsibilities and blessings that don’t vary for men and women and we are reminded, as the early Saints were, that we are willing to take upon ourselves the name of Christ at baptism and we take upon ourselves His name in the temple and men and women both can receive all the blessings our Heavenly Parents have for their children.Shownotes: https://followhim.co/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannel"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to part two with Dr. Barbara Gardner. I don't think the fall caused Adam to think less of Eve. If anything, the fall caused Adam to think more of Eve because God confirmed the choice of Eve was critical. The fall created put Adam and Eve into a position where they were mortal, and where Satan could tempt them, and where they were using their agency between truth and error and good and bad. And the fall made specifically forced mankind to be completely dependent upon Jesus Christ.

That's what the fall does. So the fall puts us into a position of mortality. Mankind is what who has fallen. It wasn't Eve that fell, right? It wasn't Adam that fell. Mankind has fallen. And when we are obedient to the Lord and keep His commandments and we use the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our life, it brings us back up. I don't believe that Adam and Eve exercise unrighteous dominion. But I do believe that through time unrighteous dominion did creep in because that is Satan's tool. Not just with women and men, but within cultures,

within people, within anything, regarding the human kind. Yeah, there's always going to be a tendency because of Satan's influence to have unrighteous dominion. So, your Jones talks about the roles of men and women. And she says, you know, so often we talk about the role of women as this and role of man as this. And she says the roles of men and women and she says, you know, it's so off we talk about the role of women is this and role of man is this and she says the role of every person is to learn to hear him and to obey him. That's our role, right? It's extremely important that in our understanding,

God is not a minimizer and God is not a separator and God is not a divider. God is one who was trying to help exalt all people to become like him. In fact, I wasn't a meeting one time with, not a meeting. I was in a conversation with one of my neighbors years ago and he is not a member of the church and he just said, we were talking about God and what he wants for us. And I made the, I asked the question, like, what does God want for you? And he says, he wants to be happy. He just lists all these things. And, and he said to me, what do you think God wants for you? And I said, he wants to be, he wants me to become like him.

As we're taught in the doctrine of governance, he wants us to become joint errors with his son, Jesus Christ. He's not a God who is trying to get us like 99% of the way and then hold us back. So we're always, demeaned in some source. Jesus Christ, our savior is a God who wants us to be able to receive and have all that he has. That's the kind of God that we're talking about. And so as we sometimes as humankind, we're great until somebody gets above us, right? It's President Benson's great talk on pride. We're fine until there is some type of competition. If somebody gets above us, if they have more than we have as President Benson talks about, then we have a problem. But as long as they're below us, or as long as there's some type of, we have the head,

the gain on something, then we're in trouble. And the pride is often from the bottom looking up. And as he says, more often so, but sometimes it's also from the top looking down. The comparison is the problem. Yep. Anytime one person is trying to oppress another, that is not coming from God. Period. Alright, um, okay, let's keep going, Barb.

Talking about the theeronic priestedans and verse 29, we're talking about the offices of elder and bishop, which are appendages. Notice that word appendage, that's also very important. Belonging into the high priesthood. And again, the offices of teacher and deacon are necessary appendages, belonging to the lesser priesthood, which priesthood was conferred upon Aaron and his sons. It's important we talk about appendages because we're recognizing their appendages. And this is what we were talking about, perhaps a little bit before as they are not the priesthood, they are appendages to the priesthood. Right. So that's important. Scripcially, they we do not say they are the priesthood. Their offices are appendages to what God would call. In this case, the Aaronic priesthood. So we wouldn't even say,

the appendages like an arm, right? It's a piece of something. I can use. Right, exactly. Yeah, so we're not saying this is it. So again, just as John was saying about the Aaronic priesthood, we wouldn't say to a young man as a bishopric member after passing a sacrament,

we're so grateful for the Aaronic priesthood for passing the sacrament. It's completely inappropriate because the Aaronic priesthood is not a person. It's an appendage to a greater thing and a person holds or is ordained to a priesthood office. So that word appendage is actually helpful in understanding the terminology as well

that the prophets have asked us to use. It's a little thing, but it's important, I think. It sounds, I mean, I've had people that said, well, why does this even matter? Like, who cares, is this just a matter of semantics? Well, I can give you a number of reasons why it matters. Because if you're a 12 year old girl and you just saw that 14 year old boy

making some sense in decisions that were not very good good and the bishop just thinks the priesthood, which is him, for performing such a sacred duty, you just minimize the importance of the priesthood and that young girl's mind. If you have a wife who was constantly hearing how great the priesthood is, referring to her husband, but yet at home, he acts very differently that he doesn't public. She can't separate the priesthood from the man. It becomes very, very real. And I know just mean women to man. I mean men to men as well. And so if you want to demean, the priesthood, call it a human being. There is no perfect human being on the earth. There's not

a single one. So even the most righteous man on the earth by calling him the priesthood is going to be demeaning to God's power and authority. That's why that's one reason that is so important. This is why I love 121. Well, that it may be conferred upon them. It is true. But as soon as this, this, this will then amen. Or in other words, saianara to the priesthood of that, he doesn't have it anymore. He's not qualified anymore to, he doesn't have that power anymore.

So I love one, one, 21 kind of says, it kind of makes that distinction. It might be conferred upon you, it doesn't mean you have it. It's important. I know that someone would say, well, the Bishop Rick is doing their best up there. It's a difficult job. Don't criticize.

I don't think we're criticizing as much as we're saying. This is kind of an important. No, I love the clarity. When I was a Bishop, I think I heard Sherry do say it the first time. You can help me, Barbara. Did Sherry talk about that? It'd be proper to say, we'd like to thank the priesthood for,

I thought that's right. That's not exactly what happened. And so that helped me. Yeah, Sherry do has done amazing work, foundational work on helping us understand priesthood itself. And then also it's connection to women as well. So yes, definitely. It seems like a small thing, but it's connection to women as well. So yes, definitely. It seems like a small thing, but it's huge.

It's bigger than we can realize. Bishop Rick members do a lot of work and it's not like, it's like, well, get everything perfectly. But this one seems... No, it was helpful, I thought. I don't know. I mean, it was one of those, of course, things, what I heard it.

Yeah, I'm gonna watch that. Yeah I mean, it was one of those, of course, things what I heard it. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna watch that Yeah, again, it's something that's been traditional, but not something that is definitely sound to say We're learning, you know, we're improving step by step again. It's good So as we're continuing on we're looking at 31 and again, this is um now we're getting into the oath and covenant of the priesthood and we can talk about this in terms of the patriarchal priesthood as well. In fact, it's extremely important that we do. For those who have entered into the temple and received their endowments and especially their initiatories, some of this wording may actually even sound somewhat familiar for women as well as for men.

I think that's important that men also realize that the terminology and gender doesn't change for the women in the temple. So it doesn't change to a she or a he or doesn't change from sons to daughters, but the women are receiving the same blessings. That's extremely important. Many men don't understand that. And so that similar terminology is coming from the book of Exodus, but women are hearing very much the similar phraseology when they enter the temple as well. So then you talk about this idea of, first of all, Moses and the sacrifice in the house. And so

again, we're talking about Temple, the house of the Lord. We talk about the sons of Moses and of Aaron. She'll be filled with the glory of the Lord. And then we get into verse 33. And I'm going to stop here for a second because many people, although the Old Thinker of the Priestess is going to apply to men, just an invitation to see how it does apply to women as well. In fact, recently, President Nelson was asked by Sister Bingham.

And just a short interview that they did, part of it was placed on a general conference. But part of it wasn't. And she simply said to him, President Nelson does the oath and covenant of the priesthood applied to women. And he said, absolutely, of course it does. Why wouldn't it?

Kind of that idea, of course it does. And so you look at this and how does it apply to women as well. And I can kind of walk through this. But before I even do that, I just a simple testimony. I had Sister Burton, who was a general Lisa Society president, gosh, 10 years ago,

or yeah, about 10 years ago, who asked to be a women's conference for the women of the church to memorize the oath and covenant of the priesthood. I did not memorize it when I first heard it all, though I thought it was a great idea. She was inspired, I'm sure to say it, but it stuck in my head that I should. And I thought about it a number of times and I thought, you know, that memory is the oath in cover of the priest.

I mean, that's great, but that's just more work and that's something the men are supposed to do. I mean, the men pass that off, the women have their own thing, right? But then I was asked to speak at women's conference on the topic of women in the priesthood. And I realized that if I was going to speak on the topic, then I needed to fulfill what our generalist I did present at the church under the keys of the prophet asked us to do. And that was to memorize the oath and covenant of the priesthood. And so I went to the temple sat in the initiatory session and took the scriptures out and I

memorized, it took me a long time because I'm not a good memorizer, but I memorized the oath and covenant that priesthood. And my understanding of women and priesthood and the initiatory and the temple completely changed that day. Well, 100%. Because I had it in my head. And then when the promises and then when the covenants

and when the oaths were being read to me or being said to me, I recognized, wait a second, I think that this actually applies to women too, because I think I'm hearing very similar things. And so you go through this and you talk about these two priesthoods, where do you hear about two priesthoods at the same time, where we learn about two priesthoods in the temple. And we can talk about that as elder as elder Bednar said, we need to be talking about things of this nature more and more. And so we talk about the two Elder Bednar said, we need to be talking about things of this nature more and more.

And so we talk about the two precesses in the temple and we talk about the sanctifying and renewing of bodies in the temple. And then we talk about becoming the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seat of Abraham and the church and the kingdom and the elect of God. Well, how do you become the seed of Abraham by making covenants with the Lord? And who is a seed of Abraham? Is it just the men? No, seed refers to all children. And as we talked about before Abraham was married, there would be no seed of Abraham if there was no woman. And in this case, specifically, in the covenant relationship is Abraham and Sarah through the loins of the two and then through

Isaac. And so how do you enter into the Abrahamic covenant? You make and keep covenants specifically in the temple, starting at baptism, which President Oak says, we make those covenants in the temple to be willing to take upon us the name of Christ, but we actually take upon us the name of Christ in the temple. So where are we taking upon us the name of Christ and where do we specifically make these covenants in the temple, where we become, as it says, in 34, the elect of God. And then you continue on. And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me. We could talk about that word receive. When do we receive the Holy Ghost? When we are ordained to a priesthood office or when we decide to receive it. So, we talk about receiving. Do women receive the priesthood? Well, yes, they do. They receive

the priesthood when they make and keep sacred ordinances with the Lord. And then he that priesthood receive with me, say, the Lord. So, that's right. 35. And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, say, the Lord. For he that receive with my servants, receive with me, both women and men receive God's servants. He that receive with me, receive with my father again, both, and he that receive with my father, receive with my father's kingdom. Therefore, all that my father has shall be given unto him. So we're talking specifically about this oath and covenant of the priesthood and the promises that are being made. We're talking about both women and men, right?

Yeah, I've noticed, Barb, that there's some interesting pronouns there, verse 33, magnifying their calling, verse 35, all they who receive the priesthood receive me. Other places he's using the male pronouns, but there it's the, you can see there's a hint towards to what I think what you're saying here. And that's a good thing to dry out to circle out. Here's seed, that's everybody, here's they, that's everybody. Yeah, this whole entire idea,

the other thing that's important to understand is sometimes the oath and covenant. It's important to know that it is the Lord who swears with an oath, that everyone who keeps the covenants that are connected to the Malkizadic priesthood will receive the blessings. So God is the one who swears this oath. And God swore this oath, and that we would become, in a sense, joint errors with Christ, which is what he is saying in verse 38, all that my father has shall be given unto him. And we know as both women and men that there is no blessing,

a priesthood holder is going to receive, that one who also makes and keeps covenants with the Lord are not going to receive. So all blessings are going to be the same. And this becomes important as well. And I know that for some this may sound crazy, but there are many women who believe that it is for the men to receive all that God has. It's surprising to think that many women don't believe that and it's surprising to know that there are some men who have a star time

believing that in fact, oh, it'll be personal. I had a man who was a stake president who was incredible, who extremely bright and he sat at my dinner table recently and he said, you know, I've been a temple worker. I've been a I've been a stake president. I've been a bishop. I've been in charge of all these assignments. And it wasn't until recently studying the oath and covenant of the priesthood and studying women's priesthood power and authority that I actually realized that women had all of the same ability to call upon receive revelation and have power and authority in our home as I did. He said, I just didn't even know it. He's like, how I how differently I would have traded my relief society president as a state president and as a bishop.

And how differently I would have treated my wife had I understood, priesthood power and authority as taught this way. This isn't an 11 year old boy. This is a man who is in his late 60s, early 70s, being called as a mission president, who finally for the first time after having many ecclesiastical assignments, realizing this. I can't tell you how many letters that I have received from men who are humble and good and kind, saying, I had no idea. So this is something that we are, that we are leading to learn a lot about. It'll make a huge difference in the church if we consider justically work together and

understand these concepts. Um, Barbara, I'd love you to come in on this because this is 22 years ago, October 1999, President James Y. Fouse said, in his infinite wisdom, the Lord requires worthy brethren to wear the mantle of the priesthood in order to enter the temple, but he permits his sisters to enter solely by virtue of their personal worthiness. And that's just a fun one to ponder. Well, I'd love to hear what you think about that. Yeah, I mean, I would love to have an answer for that why it is that women could enter the temple and receive and be in doubt with priesthood power and authority without having been at least in mortality or dain't to a priesthood office. I don't have an answer to that.

I do think it's fascinating. and I think it's for women and men to both understand it. You know, President Nelson talks about how one day he looks forward to dwelling in the hereafter. And he actually says, regarding his wife, we will have been faithful to the covenants made in the temple and to the oath and covenant of the priesthood, which have assured us in the words of the Lord that all that my father has shall be given unto you." And he says, faithful sisters share the blessings of the priesthood.

I think that women, I don't know why women can enter the temple without being ordained to a priesthood office. I have ideas and I've had a lot of people give me their opinions on this, but I have never heard again the prophet or I've never read in the scriptures the reason behind it. But I do think it's for women something that if understood and thought about, I think the spirit once again is going to teach with empowering thoughts and feelings

as the spirit often does. That's exact. I feel like it's an empowering thought that there's something that they perhaps inherently have. And so I love that. It's causing me to think, wow, and it makes sense to me too. You know, it's also interesting that the elder piper of the 70 had a quote recently,

just a few years ago, right, talks about, in regards to the oath and covenant of the priesthood, again, we're talking about this in regards to the oath and covenant of the priesthood, again, we're talking about this in context of the temple, but he says, note that he, and it's talking about in verse 33, who so is faithful unto the obtaining of these two priesthoods. And he says, note that the Lord doesn't use the word ordaining.

He uses the word obtaining. He doesn't use the word ordaining again. He uses the word receiving. And both women, both women and men obtain and receive, although one does not necessarily need to be ordained to that priesthood office. I think that's fascinating that we can obtain and receive the priesthood and all the blessings associated with the Rakanamukh as it presides simply through our purity and through our covenants, which is true for for women. And as men continue with their purity, their power increases as well.

But it is very interesting. Thanks, John. Thank you. That same talk is referred to in the Come Follow Me manual and the words obtained and receive. And I've always liked the word received because it implies more of I'm allowing it. I'm inviting it in. It's not just it's conferred. It's like I receive this. I inviting it in. It's not just it's conferred. It's like, I received this. I take it in.

We talked about that before with the Holy Ghost. Receive the Holy Ghost, which we're all invited to do. Six times in the old income of the priesthood just between verse 35 and 40. The word received. The word received is used there. And I think it is significant that it's not ordained. It is received. It's something that it's requiring a decision on the part of the receiver to test. Yeah, who was it, John, in one of our podcasts, interview someone said, think of a wide receiver? Brad did, yeah.

The quarterback throws the ball, but the receiver's got to receive, you can't. He's got to take it in, yeah. And I think of it, when you read closely, the parable of the sower, he that received seed, it uses that same word, it just fall down, but you receive seed and then it can grow. I just want to make that point, though, too,

that in the oath and cover of the priesthood, there's also, we're talking about, but who so break this covenant? And it's very serious for both women and men that this covenant is serious and that we as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, when we enter the temple and we are making covenants with the Lord,

that we need to be clean and we need to do all we can and we need to repent if there's a problem that we turn to the Lord and say, yes, I recognize that I have fallen and through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I need help becoming better. Sometimes we see this and sometimes it can be so heavy handed as if maybe, maybe I shouldn't go to the temple because, gosh, I could be condemned forever. I don't think that that is the way that the Lord works. As President Packer says, we need to repent and repent and repent and repent and repent and continue to right? And continue to repent.

And so I think that that's the same idea here that we, we are diligence in doing all that we can living by the word of God and repenting. If in some way we are not perfect, which none of us are. Yeah. So maybe verse 41 breaking the covenant means stop repenting, right? Like I'm done repenting. I'm going a different way. Yeah, that's a great. I'm not making course corrections anymore. And I, and when I was a

a bishop, boy, the impression whenever people would come in for recommend was always the Lord wants this person in the temple. I loved how often I felt that no matter where they were at, the Lord wants them in the temple, you know. Yep. Yeah, I noticed that. It's not, I don't, yeah, I think you're right here, Barb. It's not about making a mistake. It's turning altogether, turneth there from.

Yeah. That's in verse 41. Like I am, I'm not interested anymore in you, right? Yeah. That's a scary place. I'm glad. Yeah, heavy handed is is right if you think of it as if you make a mistake After going to the temple, that's it, but if it's you know You're choosing not to be forgiven because you're choosing not to repent

And I think we have to be careful and you And sometimes it depends on what side of the pendulum were on at times, but in 38, God is giving us, he says, all that Christ is a Christ, all that my father has shall be given unto him. There's nothing more you can give than everything. I mean, it's everything, right? Pretty high percentage. Yes, and then at the same time,

sometimes with me I'm thinking, oh, but I don't know if it's worth the price. I mean, if I mess up, then God, I lose it everything too, but that's not the case here. It is through the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we are able to receive everything as long as we are willing to receive Him. And as we receive Him, He continues that promise, and it continues on and on and on. I think we do need to be careful though of that cheap grace idea. God does expect effort.

God does expect us to work. God does expect us as President Nelson said. He expected Moses, as he's talked about here in this section 84, not to meet him at the bottom of the mountain, not the middle of the mountain, but at the top of the mountain. And God is willing to give us all that he has, but there is a price that has to be paid. Christ paid the ultimate price, and he does expect effort, and he does expect us to receive him. He does expect us to be serious about this priesthood and to really give our lives in the Lord and sacrifice all that we have.

As President Nelson has talked so much about that, especially in terms of covenant Israel. I like with that idea of, yeah, we don't want to go all the way to, we want to talk about effort. Look at 43 and 44. Give diligent heed to the words of eternal life for you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God. And I just love the idea. I love the idea of striving that you just keep trying, that it's not just verbal ascent, but you just keep just the words alone aren't enough. You're going to keep trying. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, and then I love as we do, as we do, say, we were studying the doctrine of governance with our daughters this morning as well. We were talking about my husband just said, you know, how do you gain more light? And my little five or I don't even know where she learned this.

And she said, by being obedient, do you even know how intelligent you were? Like legitimately, the real word intelligent, I mean, off section 93. And she just, I was just shocked by it. But somehow in her very young mind, she understands the light, literal light comes through obedience to the gospel. And it's interesting that the Lord is teaching that here in verse 45, and then 46, the Spirit give a light to every man that comes into the world, and then how we increase in that light as we continue to draw closer to the Lord.

I just think light is one of the most fascinating topics to me. I mean, this takes me back to section 50, the verse, that which is of God is light and he that received light and continue it within God, receive it with more light. And how those verses are so interesting to me. Yep. And the light grows, the light grows brighter and brighter.

It's not, it's not all on all off. It just keeps growing. Then you can go to section 93, the wicked one, comeeth and takeeth away light. Later on in this section, your minds have been darkened in verse 54. Your minds and times past have been darkened because of unbelief. I love that because of unbelief and because you've treated lightly the things that you have received. Like, you know, sometimes it is so easy in our world today to just take for granted what we have or to dilute that or make righteous things silly or make evil good. I mean, we know these scriptures back and forth, but for God,

you think about all that He has done, what He's willing to give us, and He's just saying, do not treat these things lightly. Because you know, throughout church history, and even to our day, many have. And these are return missionaries again that the Lord is speaking to. And these are those who have had incredible experiences. And the Lord is reminding them at this early stage in church history, this is the foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Letterday Saints. Do not take these things lightly.

You are setting the framework and the grounding for an incredible international church that is going to eventually bring in the second coming of Jesus Christ. Don't take it lightly, right? Well, I love what you said at the beginning that Oliver Caldary comes in is like, uh, is anybody riding this down? Yeah. It's like, are you hearing this? This is incredible. Yep. And I thought to myself that same thing, like, what am I taking lightly? Like, what am I not riding down? What have, what is the Lord done for me that I have just kind of said,

yeah, it's not important enough to write down, but in reality, it's probably the most important thing that's happened that year. But maybe it was just an answer to a prayer that I just took for granted, you know? It happens a lot. There's so many parables of Jesus where the King goes, gives an invitation and they take it.

They take it lightly. Take it lightly. And so can I say, don't take light lightly? I had to do it. Very nice. Don't take light lightly. Well, and that leads us into the book of Mormon, right? And that's what he's talking about here. Don't take things lightly.

And he says, and I have given you the book of Mormon of all the things to not take lightly. Let's not take the sacred writings of these prophets and the ancient Americas lightly. They gave their life for it. They lived their life for it. They gave life for it. Let's not take this lightly.

I love when I start my book of Mormon classes sometimes. I'll say, can we imagine that Lucy Mac Smith just walked into the room and maybe she would stand in front of us and say, do you know what it cost my family to bring you this book? Yeah. And just think of what she gave and her family gave. Let alone all the people you just talked about who wrote the book and sacrificed. But look at what the Smith family gave to bring us this.

For a number of years, until recently, the book of Mormon hasn't been, this phenomenon, hasn't had the phenomenal place, the center place as it now does in church, especially among missionary work. I think it's probably fair to say that the presidents of the church wouldn't want to be known for some specific doctrine, but all of them are trying to lead us to the Savior and everything, but President Benson was so, his emphasis on the Book of Mormon

was so strong I used to have my students read a witness in a warning just for extra credit because it was just conference talks, but so many of them were, we've got to get back in the Book of Mormon and I remember him in one of them saying that as he participated in the Mexico City temple dedication, he said, I received the distinct impression that the Lord is not pleased with our neglect of the

Book of Mormon and of this we must repent. And has not been the center of our teaching of our family him evening. And he, every conference, he was really hitting that. And so this verse 57, I think he also said that condemnation that it's speaking of has never been lifted. Yeah, that's right. I mean, that was a moment in general conference to go, whoa.

You know, President Nelson actually talks about how he remembered President Benson calling him into his office and he was first called as a member of the, when President Benson, President Benson was a prophet and President Nelson was first called as a member of the quorum of the 12. And he said, he said, President Benson was a prophet and President Nelson was first called as member of the quorum of the 12. And he said, he said, President Benson expressed deep concern that the members of the church did not fully appreciate the value of the Book of Mormon.

And then he said, with emotion in his voice, he read to him versus 54, 55, 56, and 57. And then he said, he said, I shall never forget that lesson since then, President Howard W. Hunter, President Gordon B. Hinkley and many other leaders of the church have continued to extol the book of Mormon to people throughout the world. And then he just says, I will add my testimony of the divinity of this book. I have read it many times.

I have also read much has been written about it. Some authors have focused upon its stories. It's people, it's been yet a history. Others haven't treated by language's structure or as records of weapons, geography, animals, life, et cetera. And then he says, interesting as these matters may be, study of the Book of Mormon is most rewarding

when one focuses on its primary purpose to testify of Jesus Christ. By comparison, all other issues are incidental. And then he just talks about the importance of us as we study the Book of Mormon to focus on the Lord Jesus Christ and the Son of the Living God, which he does now. I mean, how many times does President Nelson as we study the Book of Mormon to focus on the Lord Jesus Christ and the Son of the Living God, which he does now. I mean, many times as President Nelson asked us to study the Book of Mormon.

Right. In fact, there's something I show my classes. In October 2017, General Conference, he gave a talk called President Nelson gave a talk called the Book of Mormon, what would your life be like without it? And it's only in the end sign or online, but there's this thing called President Nelson's Book of Mormon lists at the end of that. Because it's not part of the talk, but it's bullet points. The Book of Mormon affirms, the Book of Mormon refutes,

the Book of Mormon clarifies, the Book of Mormon, it's all these little things. One of those says we can bring this back to our topic, talks about the fall and the special wisdom of Eve. It mentions that in there. Yeah, when I was on my mission, I'll just tell a quickie. I was, we were teaching this gentleman. It was the night before it was Christmas Eve.

And my companion and I started just discussing the book of Mormon. We just read a passage out of it. And we were in downtown LA, kind of a scarier area. And I remember him just looking at us and he said, what is the name of that book that you're reading? And we said, well, what do you mean? And he said, what's the name of the book? And we said, you know, it's the book of Mormon.

It's on Spanish. And he says, oh, that's so interesting because it reminds me of the same book that this man reads, this man listens to every day on the way to work that I drive with. And we said, well, what is the name of that book? And he goes, I don't know, something about convenience, he don't drink, or something. And so something like the doctrine and covenants, or something. And

we said, well, that's so fast. We held up our book. We said, you know, he's a part of the same thing. And he touched us, you know, it's hard. And he just said, he said, I knew it must be from the same, the same source because I feel the same feeling when you're reading from the Book of Mormon as I do every morning when I drive to work with this man. Long story short, I mean, you hear these stories and this is almost one of those end-sign stories, but he went back to that man, told him about some random sister missionaries knocking on his door and he ended up getting baptized shortly after. Portably equally, importantly, I guess, is he asked us for as many copies of the Book of

Mormon as he could possibly have. And he just delivered it to every person he could possibly find his family, his friends, his people at work. And just he just fell in love with this book because of the spirit. And it was interesting that he was able to feel the same spirit with the doctrine of governance as the book of Mormon without having any introduction to either except for that one evening. It's pretty fascinating.

You know, and now they're Holland has given some great talks in his life. I think you both would agree. Yeah. But the one I'll probably always remember was, I can't believe it was 12 years ago now, 2009 called Safety for the Soul. You can't just read it. You got to get a listen to it. Amen.

Yeah, that's isn't that where he says that they are finding comfort and solace in a book in Carthage Jail. Would they have done that from a book they created out of Holkloth? They would not do that. It's a powerful climb over it. Climb none of it. Yeah, you're going to have to go. Yeah, but I see it makes me want to mention this these exact words here in verse 57 because Elder Holland kind of wrote his own book of Mormon commentary and it's called Christ and the New Covenant. And this is the phrase here in verse 57 until they remember the New Covenant even the Book of Mormon. So it's another name for it is interesting. It's a new covenant.

I love President Nelson's emphasis on that book of Mormon. And again, quoting President Nelson, president, and quoting President Benson, quote, President Nelson continues, he says, every latter day's saint should make the study of the book of Mormon a lifetime pursuit. Otherwise, he is placing his soul and jeopardy and neglecting that, which could give spiritual and intellectual unity to his whole life.

I just, this condemnation is real in this section of the doctrine of Covenants, what we have prophets today that are just saying it's not just, they don't just want us under condemnation and they don't want us just to read the Book of Mormon. They want our lives to become spiritually and intellectually unified. They want us to have a whole life and the Book of Mormon does that for us. The Book of Mormon really does open our eyes. It helps us to sift through the things that aren't important. It helps us to understand the doctrine of the Atomah of Jesus Christ, the hereafter. And there's so many doctrines and

teachings in the Book of Mormon that without it we simply cannot understand the beauties of the plan of salvation and the eternal nature of what we have. And the focus on the priesthood too. On the flip side, Barb, I've learned more about the adversary in the Book of Mormon than anywhere else. It's like having a playbook. What it is, Vincent, say, the Book of Mormon exposes the enemies of Christ. It ends you there playbook. If you want your kids to be, if you want your kids to be prepared for the type, what does he call them? The type of apostates we have today are the same type they have in the Book of Mormon. Yeah, in fact, that's in that witness in a warning. He says the book of Mormon brings men to Christ in two ways by testifying men and women to Christ, testifying of the gospel, and bringing

them to Jesus Christ and exposing the enemies of Christ. And now that I love to ask my students why would you give cohort any air time at all? And you know, and you know, that'll come up with it. Well, now we know the tactics and thank heavens, you know, and knee horror and share and share and amalakaya. I mean, there's a whole host of them in there. The reality is that the tactics, I mean, you're saying this, but they aren't new. I mean, every single tactic we hear today has already been exposed in the book of Mormon. I'm no devil. There is none. You're foolish to arrange mine. Traditions of your fathers.

And then I love also as we continue that, just this idea that Christ is going to be calling them his friends. I love him for 63. You are my friends. And just this beautiful 77 again, again, I say unto you, my friends, for from henceforth I shall are my friends. And just this beautiful 77 again, again, I say unto you, my friends, for from henceforth, I shall call you friends. It is expedient that I give unto you this commandment that you become even as my friends in days when I was with them,

traveling to preach the gospel in my power. I mean, those who are teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, those who are putting forth the effort to teach the good word of God and bring people to Christ, he considers his friends. I just think that's such a beautiful, a beautiful, I just would say, noun or pronoun to be able to speak to them in that type of nature. Yeah, I think it there's a, I don't know, it would be fun to do some searching and see if there's a progression because it's at times it's my servants and it and it and it becomes friends. I love that progression like you said.

President Eiring actually did give a talk at BYU graduation regarding the Lord's use of the word friends and the doctrine of covenants. He does talk about the importance of God calling Joseph and others his friends. It's beautiful. Okay. What's up? What's next? Let's see. We got about a promise made to the missionaries that sound very much like, you know, the

Bible. Yeah. There's lots of Matthew language come Matthew language and sermon on the Mount language and I will say when you get to 64 through 70, the Lord is talking about all the things that we can do in His name. And again, as President, President Oaks and Elder Bednar talked about in the temple, we take upon him, we take upon ourselves His name, whereas the sacrament we are willing to take upon us His name. And then you see the things that God is commanding His missionaries in this

case, but others also to do in His name. The wonderful works that they're able to do, casting out devils, healing the sick, opening the eyes of the blind, unstopping the ears of the deaf, having the tongues of the dumb being able to speak, you know, this poison, everything else. And again, these may be things that we may take advantage of or even take for granted of as members of the church. But to see this kind of promise happening to these early members of the church, that this was the church of Jesus Christ being established. And again, just talking about this priesthood and what those who hold the priesthood are told to do, but also those who receive and are endowed with priesthood power and the possibilities

of what they are able to do as well as a result of this. Yeah, that's pretty cool to think about that way, is that us, we're going to do this too. Yeah. You do think about the healing of the sick and the stopping of the eyes of the opening, the eyes of the blind and things like that. And we think how do we do that as ministers of the Lord's work here on the earth. And some things we have been taught that there are some things that are required for one who's ordained to a priesthood office today. But there are other things that women can do through their endowment and through the power that they have that is also very much applicable to some of these things here.

But there is a lack of understanding that in the early days of the church women really did give priesthood blessings, especially blessings of healing. And many are, many just struggle with that. Well, why can't women give that that why aren't women given the power or the authority to do so today? Well, that was that was relieved of women in the early 1900s because they were going to the scriptures and saying it is of the elders of the church that are supposed to be performing that. But it was very common in the early days of the church under direction of Joseph Smith for the women of the church to actually perform blessings of healing and not just faith blessings. They were doing so because of the power and authority of the temple that they believed that they had. So sometimes as members of the church, we too quickly say, no, no, no, those were just faith

blessings. They really didn't put their... No, they did. They used oil. They were healing. They knew they were doing so. And Joseph Smith actually said, why wouldn't the women of the church perform healing blessings? They are so righteous. Of course, they're doing this. And we have a Liza Snow talking about healing blessings that she was performing in the Of course, they're doing this. And we have a Lizar snow talking about healing blessings that she was performing in the 1880s. And so we need to be careful as as we teach the gospel to not just say just because we don't do it today, they didn't do it then. That's actually not right. And that's confusing for many people. They did perform healing blessings. They they did perform those things. They didn't necessarily do it under the name of Jesus Christ by

the power of the milk as it presided as we would do it today, but it was very, very common for women to perform healing blessings in the early days of the church. Our friend Anthony Sweat has a beautiful picture that he's painted of one of those blessings in the early days of the church. I don't know if you've both seen it, but. Yeah, I love it.

His wonderful wife is the woman receiving the blessing. I recognized her immediately. I was like, Hey, that's that's sister sweat. I'm bringing this up especially in in terms of this because the church is growing and there is a line upon line process. But as teachers, we have to be very careful to not just simply dismiss it and say, No, that was actually a faith blessing. No, The records of the church are actually very clear and you can read in the writings of the women of the church and their own personal journals, many, many diaries and many, many instances, even in the writings of early brethren of the church who are talking about the healing blessings of women and that they were actually anointing with oil and they were actually sealing the anointing. And so we have to be careful to dismiss it because

when we dismiss truth, we cause more confusion. And sometimes in an attempt to make the church more true today, we want to erase our past. By teaching that women performed healing blessings in the early days of the church because of the temple and downwind and the power of the way that they believed that they had, in no way makes this church any less true. It means we were learning a line-upon-line process and women at that time were given the responsibility and even the privilege of doing so from the prophet. And that's great. I think that's fantastic. And it's also fantastic to know that in our day, we have men who are doomed to priesthood offices that are given the authority to then perform these priesthood functions. So both ways the church is still true, but let's be careful not to just diminish the past in order to make the

make the present seem perfect. Yeah, make it a little more comfortable. Yeah. Barbara, there's some beautiful New Testament language here. I know that you liked verse 82. I do. This verse, consider the lilies of the field, how they grow, they toil not, neither do they spin. The kingdom of the world and all their glory are not arrayed like one of these. I just love

this idea of God knowing everything. He knows the lilies of the field. He knows our sorrows, he knows what we need to know, he knows what we struggled with, he knows our joys. But in my life, I've experienced that Christ really does consider the lilies of the field. He knows us, he knows our wants, our desires. He knows what is best and it's a matter of trusting in him. But then this verse 84 that ties into this,

therefore let the moral take thought for the things of itself and 85, neither take you thought beforehand, the things of itself, then 85. Neither take you thought beforehand what you shall say, but treasure up in your mind continually the words of life and it shall be given unto you, the very hour that portion that shall be needed unto every man. I just this emphasis that God is placing on making sure that we study and that we treasure in our minds the words of eternal life, and that in the moment we need them we will be able to say the right thing. We will be guided by the Spirit. Well, I've noticed in Matthew chapter 10, the Lord seems to say there's a difference

between accepting the gospel and accepting the missionary or being the person, yeah, being kind to the person because he says, when you come to a house, this is Matthew 10 verse 12, when you come to a house, salute it. And that the house be worthy, which means receptive, let your peace come to it, meaning your message. But if they're not worthy, not receptive, then let your peace return unto you. Don't try to teach. But then he says, and who so shall not receive you, nor hear your words. Like when they're, they're not even, they just, what you said, John, I mean, it's just a flat out rejection. That's a little different, he says, I'm not.

And maybe that's the idea of like, the Lord just doesn't like when any of us treat each other. That way, this, you know, I got chased by a man with a baseball bat on my mission. I remember in my companion wanted to stand up to him and tell him to repent. And I was like, we gotta go. Yeah. Right.

But I had a guy threatened to shoot me in the head, but he was so drunk. I don't think he could have hit the broad side of a barn. So, um, but I've never thought of cleansing my feet off their bar. But yeah, I was going to say the same thing. I think maybe specifically for these missionaries at that time, that may have been a So, but I've never thought of cleansing my feet off their barb. Yeah. I was going to say the same thing. I think maybe specifically for these missionaries at that time, that may have been a commandment for them specifically. But I think the principle of just making sure that everyone has a chance to hear the voice

of God. I like that, barb. And I think one other thing is sometimes missionaries have a tendency to not move on. They just think, I'm going to try again. I'm going to try again. I'm trying again. And the Lord might be saying here, listen, if someone doesn't even feed you, give you anything, you know, which is very common for that time, right? To take a stranger in and to let them sleep in the barn or let them, you know, give them and give them a meal. It's like, you can, you can move on. It's okay to move on, right? You shall not return again to that man

or that place. It's okay to move on. And I don't know, it might be the Lord saying, I'll take, you know, I'll take care of it. I think it's fascinating. The President Nelson's recent talk about those who are willing to let God prevail. I thought, whoa, that's interesting. It's, it's where is their heart? If they're willing to listen to you, listen to you, they are Israel. If they're willing to let God prevail, it was a different way of looking at them.

I'm just gonna keep trying. No, are they willing to listen? That's a different question. I had a couple of days, we thought in our mission that we knocked in our door and she opened up her book of Mormon and it must have had, it was full of all of the names of every missionary that had taught her. And it must have been at least 20 different companionships over a number of years. And I remember just thinking to myself, why waste our time?

Like, she's making a point why waste our time. But the spirit just simply said, you know, she gave her a chance. It's like, oh my gosh, you gotta said, you know, she give her a chance. It's like, oh my gosh, you gotta be kidding me. And she flat out rejected us. I mean, after teaching her for a couple of lessons, we were totally excited about her and just thought that this was,

this lady was golden. But then right before she was supposed to get baptized, she just said, you know what, thanks, but no thanks. And our names were written in the records of her book of Mormon, you know. And I remember thinking, but before you go sign here. Yeah, exactly that's what it was.

I remember thinking this lady is gonna be condemned, but on the positive side of this, and this instance, she actually came to the visitor center and visited us and she just said, I recognize that God has given me so many chances that I am now making a mockery of him. And it was an interesting experience. I wasn't the missionary teaching her until she was baptized, but another couple did.

And somehow the spirit is the one who spoke to her and said, you know the truth and it's time to go. But I'm glad that I wasn't the judge. I'm glad that I was a part of the experience of helping this individual come into Christ. But I'm also glad that I wasn't in a sense giving up on her. I'm glad somebody else picked up on her. God is never going to give up on any of us. Well, I like what you said.

Let's just look at the principle. Just keep spreading the news, keep inviting, keep spreading the gospel. Yeah. Is this it? This looks like poetry in here, or in verses 99 through 102. It's actually a beautiful song that they were asked to sing.

And the song is regarding the redemption of Zion. And the coming forth of the millennial days, I mean, I mean, you think, again, I have to keep saying that these mysteries for just the church had only been established for a little over two years. And they're singing songs about the redemption of Zion. I mean, it's close with the glory of her God, for her stands, and then misses people.

Gloria and honor and power and might be a scribe to her. I mean, this is just such high and amazing verbiages that we're using here and terminology we're using here, but they were believing in these, they were preparing themselves. And again, and reference to the temple, these are the kinds of things that we understand that I cannot see and and Eric cannot hear, these wonderful, beautiful words that they were teaching.

You see in 104, the establishment of Zion, and 106 is the strong spirit and edifying the meekness, becoming strong, and that it talks again about the lesser priesthood and the higher priesthood and things. So it brings us back into the importance of the priesthood and the redemption of Zion, which is quite beautiful.

I felt that before in 106. I felt awesome teachers like you, Barb and others who are strong in the spirit, lifting up those who maybe are weak, that they can be edified and they may, they can become strong also. I've experienced that being at the foot of amazing teachers and just felt, yeah, wow, I feel strong now because of this person teaching me, right? Yeah, I had a wonderful mentor when I was struggling just with writing and things and he actually called and just said to me, Barb, I would love to have you.

If you wouldn't mind, come to my office every day for an hour and you and I can sit together and look at lesson plans and writing. And he had me go through every lesson plan and every writing that I ever did for probably two years. And if I didn't call him first, he called and reminded me and I would go and just meet with him. And he just quietly helped me through the process. And he was, his name didn't end up on any of the material. But he was a humble, make man whose intention was

to edify me and others through the spirit. Completely selfless and teaching. He was, he was an amazing example and mentor for me. I mean, it's, it's the edifying and helping each other. And that's for, you know, jumping from 106 and then it's talking about the importance of each person, each office, each calling. And then 110 that body half need of every member that all may be edified together, that the system may be kept perfect. President Oax actually quoted Joseph Smith as saying, well, one portion of the human race is judging and condemning the other without mercy,

the great parent of the universe looks upon the whole of the human family, with a fatherly care and paternal regard. He views them as his offspring and without any of those contracted feelings that influence the children of men. And then elder Oaks continues, let us all heed our prophets' call to repent

to change and to improve. Only the gospel of Jesus Christ can unite and bring peace to people of all races and nationalities. We who believe in that gospel, whatever our origins must unite in love of each other and of our Savior Jesus Christ. That was to the BYU students in 2020 and that I whole idea of reaching out and loving every single individual as children of God. It's beautiful. Yeah. I love some of these phrases in 118. I will not only shake the earth, but the starry heavens, shell tremble. And you think again, I mean, who created the heavens in the earth and by what power? It was the priesthood. I mean, it's interesting in here that God,

he's starting the whole section talking about the priesthood. I mean, it's interesting in here that God, you know, he's starting the whole section talking about the priesthood. He's talking about the temple of these missionary work, this missionary work, and there's the small efforts that were so important. And then when it comes right down to it, the world can say whatever they want to say, they can reject everything of the gospel of Jesus Christ as missionaries, can be be rejected and they can feel that they have done nothing of value, but in reality. When it comes right down to, I just love 111, 119 especially, I, the Lord, have put forth my hand to exert the powers of heaven. And then you cannot see it now in a little while and you shall see it and know that I am

and that I will come and reign with my people. I am Alphanomega, the beginning and the end. Amen. God is in control. This is his priesthood power. Nothing in the world compares to it. Many can strive to have every other kind of power and authority, but nothing compares to the power of God and his ability to reign and rule on the earth. And although it may seem small at this time, they may not be able to see it now. Every evil bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ, Jesus is the Christ.

I just, I just, there's no question whose power reigns. And it's the priesthood power. And the Lord has given us the opportunity to use it. You cannot see it now. Yeah. But you soon will. And I think if they were to even to see us today, I mean, they would marvel at just how far this little seed has grown throughout this world.

I mean, they were told to do this. And even in 2021, the majority of this revelation has already been fulfilled. Barb, you have shown us so much today. I have notes up and down section 84. I'm writing, I'm writing in the margins in between the columns, trying to fit in everything I've, I've learned. And I hope I can read my writing when I look at it again, but, um, we're grateful that, that you've been here.

Um, you've been studying these things for studying these things and writing about them for decades. I think you're our only chaplain, our return missionary, a professor, a wife, a mother. What keeps you a woman of such brilliance really faithful in the church? You know, specifically, I want to ask you as a woman. How does that feel? It's yet to be kind of careful with this answer because it's a sensitive topic for many people. strong, Latter-day Saint-Home. By parents who were not raised in what would necessarily be considered strong, Latter-day Saint-Homes. I have seen many women struggle throughout their lives, especially as they get older and start understanding and are being influenced in a sense a little bit more through the world. The members of the church are not perfect. I love what Sharia do, it has a comment, I can't remember the exact terminology, but she

said something to the effective, never let a volunteer sway you from the truth or never be frustrated by a volunteer. I can't remember exactly what it was, but we are members of a perfect gospel where Jesus Christ does rule and reign, he is in charge, but there are people who are not necessarily perfect. And we have to separate ourselves. That's doctrine covenant section one. So I think it's important, first of all, that we understand that some women really have been hurt and some women perhaps really have been offended. And there are some very difficult situations that they have dealt with. On my side, although I have seen in of those in experience, a few things that are

not necessarily that that large, what has kept me grounded in the gospel of Jesus Christ is the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is my testimony of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I have studied the gospel as a child. I watched my mother and my father alone and as a family, study the scriptures. I knew that my mom was able to make important decisions and very difficult, make it through very difficult situations in her life through her study of the scriptures. I saw my parents raise their family and I saw some of the struggles that come from from just difficulties. And it was all their life was based on applying the gospel of Jesus Christ as a

family. They weren't perfect, but I observed as a child that regardless of my gender, I knew what I knew and I saw what I saw and I couldn't deny it. I saw the fruits of living the gospel of Jesus Christ in my own family. And so as I continued on and I studied the scriptures. I was blessed to have a father who when I said, I have a question about women in the priesthood or I have a question about faith or I have a question about this, his answer wasn't right or neither was my mother's it was, well let's talk about it, let's study it, let's ask more questions, let's figure this out for ourselves, let's go back to the scriptures and study and study and study. And so I was taught young to ask questions and find answers in the scriptures and through prayer. Personal revelation was very important to both of my parents. I remember

knocking on the doors of my father's office and him not answering for sometimes a half an hour. And coming out and I realized later that it was it was him praying because I could learn to recognize a little red dot on his forehead from his hand being there. And my dad pled for revelation on how to raise his children. And my mother was the same way. I entered, I came home many times, whether my mom was washing dishes, but I knew that she was pondering on the things of God.

It was just clear. So as I went out throughout my life and I became more educated, maybe in the world's term of education and went through my master's and PhD programs, I put the gospel to the test. I understood what it was like to be single. I understood what it was like to be alone. And the gospel of Jesus Christ kept me from being too lonely. I saw the blessings of living the gospel. And I also saw the reality of understanding that doctrine really is what makes sense.

That Satan and the world would love to confuse women. They would love to compare the women of the church with the women of the world, they would love to, in a sense, dilute what is most significant in the roles of women in life. But as we study and stay close to the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Lord keeps what's important, important in our minds, in our hearts. The temple especially has been an avenue where I have received revelation and the Lord is confirmed to me in such a way that it would be harder for me not to believe than to believe. I have had too many answers to prayer. I have had too many broken hearts healed. I have had too many confusions clarified, etc., etc., etc. And so as a woman in these positions, I have recognized that the more questions I ask, the more I've come to know God, the more I've struggled, the more God has shown himself to be,

the more I've paid a price, the more he has answered that call. So to me, I guess it's just a matter of reality for me. God has made himself known to me and God has made himself known through this gospel. Intellectually, the more I study, the more I learn, and that is exactly the same way with the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's interesting with the priesthood. Elder McConkey says that through the only way we can learn about the priesthood is through the spirit. And that's true. You can read every book and every manual on the topic, but unless the spirit is testifying and teaching you truth, you're not going to understand it.

I'm skimming the surface of the priesthood and I've studied it for years. But I know I'm skimming the surface because the Lord has made it very clear that I know very little. And I think that that is the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We know very little, but I know enough to know that God is our Father, that we have heavenly parents, that Jesus is the Christ. There, there's no question. So yeah, sometimes things are frustrating, but nothing is, would be more frustrating than,

than leaving truth for me. I love truth and I have found it here. Thank you so much. We are so glad we had you back and that you accepted our invitation to come back. A very different podcast this time in section 84 to priesthood, isn't it? But we still want you to come back again still. Well I love to appreciate you guys. Thank you. Thank you. You're you're very kind to us and we we love having you here.

We want to thank Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner for her time. We want to thank all of you for taking time and listening and watching. We're grateful for your support. Thank you to our executive producers, Steven Shannon Sorensen and our amazing production crew, John. We have a crew who takes this and makes it. I know what it is. I just sit here and nod thoughtfully in these other people do all the work. Yeah. It's wonderful. David Perry is one of them. Lisa Spice, Jamie Nielsen, Kyle Nelson, Will Staten, and Maria Hilton.

Thank you to that wonderful team. And we hope you will join us on our next episode of Follow Him. you