Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 84 Part 2 • Dr. Jared Halverson • July 28 - Aug 3 • Come Follow Me

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome back to part two with Dr. Jared Halverson, Doctrine in Covenant Section 84. How do we respond to our Protestant friends? We've grown up knowing about these ordinances, but some who look at that and say, ooh, that sounds like a work. That sounds like you're discounting the Atonement of Christ. You think you have to do all this stuff. Well, in some ways you have to trace back, why is that such a concern for Protestantism? To think about the history of the Reformation, If you're cutting yourselves off from Catholicism, Martin Luther felt he had good reasons to do so. But as soon as you do that, you realize, wait, am I sawing off the branch that I'm sitting on? I'm not going to be connected to Catholic priesthood authority.

Starting point is 00:00:43 What's my basis then? You're going to have to come up with something different. In Protestantism's perspective, it was, well, it's going to be a priesthood of all believers. Okay, where does that priesthood even come from? We cannot trace our line of authority back. Again, we see it in section 84. That's important. We see it in the book of Ezra. That's essential for the ancient Israelites. This unbroken chain, yet Protestant has to come up with an alternative for them. It's going to be a biblical authority. There's a reason where they say sola scriptura and sola Fides and sologracia, only scripture, only faith, only grace. It's because I can't lay claim to anything outside of those things because we have protested against and left Catholicism. Again, that's part of the beauty of the restored gospel, is that there is this balance between the two. We are saved by grace. And God asks us to accept priesthood ordinances to be able to receive the kind of grace. This is a channel of grace, a

Starting point is 00:01:38 conduit of grace. And that doesn't mean I'm cut off from grace without them. But in terms of entering into a covenant relationship with him, to put a ring on it, so to speak, to have an ordinance where I am covenant connected to Christ to show that I want to receive his grace. receiving grace for grace, then progressing from grace to grace until I receive a fullness. There is so much here about grace and ordinances and faith and works and balancing the two that the restored gospel does. Again, if we're a hybrid of Catholicism, the best of Catholicism and the best of Protestantism, no wonder it's coming together in things like this. It's still about godliness. Godliness cannot come without grace. But a channel of grace, a covenant of grace,

Starting point is 00:02:26 That's what these ordinances are trying to accomplish. That's a good way to explain it. Now, I'll leave it alone. I'm thinking of Jesus giving the great commission, go ye into all the world, preach the gospel to every creature, and baptize them. Baptize them. I have a little book called, Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up? Have you guys heard of that book?

Starting point is 00:02:48 He just goes through Christian history, and he said, when did the altar call replace baptism? where really all you do is walk up to the altar and say, I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. But what about baptism? Because he goes back to the Great Commission. I know, that's a pretty good question. Early in the Doctrine Covenants, there was even a passage where twice in a row, he says, develop these attributes, that's wonderful, progress, do all these things.

Starting point is 00:03:15 He'll be accepted if he obey mine ordinances. Then he talks about some other things, and that's acceptable too. If he obey minor ordinances. there's this flexibility that comes with developing Christ like attributes, living into the grace of Christ, but then there's this specificity when it comes to ordinances that allows the Lord to balance justice and mercy, to balance flexibility and structure. Follow your Leihona. That's great. But there are some iron rod moments in life that give you a chance to prove to me that you're willing to do things on my terms instead of just on your own. I got to tell you about something that I learned for,

Starting point is 00:03:52 from Dr. Jan Martin, who we all know and love. Both of you know that she is a Reformation scholar. She said something I loved. She said, the Book of Mormon could bridge William Tyndale and Thomas More. They could meet at the Book of Mormon. I was fascinated by that. She said that Tyndale would read the Book of Mormon and Moore would read the Book of Mormon and they could somehow bridge their differences. It was a beautiful idea. So I don't know if, Jan, if you're out there listening, but It's something that stuck with me. Jared, John and I have had you for a while now. Like you said, we've just hit the Lord's tangent that he goes on starting in verse 6.

Starting point is 00:04:35 But let's pick back up where you said, the Lord says, all right, now back to the Sons of Moses, which I mentioned in verse 6. And that's verse 31. Exactly. Everything from 7 to 30 is the first tangent. Then he goes on a very brief second tangent before he really starts. starts hitting home what he's talking about with oath and covenant. But 31, therefore, as I said, concerning the sons of Moses. It's like, oh, yeah. That's where we got on. Then he starts to describe it. For the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice

Starting point is 00:05:07 in the house of the Lord. Back to the temple, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed. If you read verses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 31, It makes a ton of sense because we're still talking about the temple. We're still talking about this spot that I've consecrated there in Jackson County. We're still trying to build Zion. Thank heaven for the tangent. I understand Aaronic ordinances and Melchizedic ordinance is better. Now let's focus on what this priesthood is all about.

Starting point is 00:05:38 32. The sons of Moses. Moses we saw during the tangent. There's Melchizedic and the ordinances of godliness that come from that. And of Aaron. There's the erroneous. ordinances and the justification that comes from that. The sons of Moses and of Aaron, Melchizedic, Aronic, shall be filled with the glory of the Lord upon Mount Zion.

Starting point is 00:05:59 Let's ground it in Zion, building the new Jerusalem, in the Lord's house. Let's ground it in the temple. Whose sons are ye? That's absolutely essential to realize, again, Malachi 3. Who are these sons of Levi that are going to be purged? Well, sons of Levi, tribal Levi. Oh, that's Moses and If we are the sons and daughters of Moses and Aaron, if we have received ordinances through the Aronic and Melchizedic priesthood, we are now part of that house, that tribe, that we are now sons and daughters of Levi, and we have been purified by our Aronic and Melchizedic ordinances to be able to enter the house of the Lord and present to God this offering and righteousness, which is the record of all of our debt. We have now restored God's peace, to a right understanding of who they are and whose they are. We have restored them to God. This is what this whole thing is all about. We promised we would do that. That's where we lead into this beautiful oath and covenant of the priesthood. From 33 for the next 10 verses or so, it's so beautiful to see what God has promised us through these ordinances, what we are promising

Starting point is 00:07:13 him as we receive these ordinances ourselves. Sister Linda Kay Burton, when she was General Lee's Society President. She was speaking at a BYU Women's Conference. Here's the General East City President speaking to the women of the church. She challenges them to go memorize the oath and covenant of the priesthood. This is in that beautiful moment when President Oaks is giving priesthood talks to the sisters of the church about their priesthood. If you have authority, it has to be priested authority because what other kind is there? Right after she challenged the sisters to memorize it, she said, by doing so, I promise you that the Holy Ghost will, expand your understanding of the priested and inspire and uplift you in wonderful ways.

Starting point is 00:07:53 To have these words running through the minds of our daughters, of our sisters, of our wives, of our mothers, because of their priested authority, their priested power. If this discussion of priesthood is in the context of the temple, think about the power and authority that God gives to his daughters and his sons in his house to fully restore us. I mean, the highest order of the priesthood is going to be patriarchal, which means it has to be matriarchal as well, that it has to be in the sealing ordinance. That's when the Abrahamic covenant fully is renewed upon us. I can't be Abraham until I find my Sarah. I can't. I cannot have eternal increase and the fullness of the priesthood and the highest degree of the celestial kingdom without my other half. It's Adam Annie. It's

Starting point is 00:08:48 Abraham and Sarah. It's Isaac and Rebecca. It's this combination. To see daughters and sons together in the oath and covenant of the priesthood, this is so much broader than I think we sometimes boil it down to as we tell a bunch of young men, this is something that's for you as it prepares you for higher priesthood ordination later. Those are side blessings. There's something bigger going on here. If this is line upon line, wait a decade, and you've got the Relief Society being organized in Nahu

Starting point is 00:09:20 after the order of the priesthood. There is no difference between male and female as far as receiving the ordinances of Aaronic and Melchizedic priesthood. In the temple, again, we see women officiating in the same way that men are officiating. we are being guided by heavenly parents to become people like them. Jared, would it be okay if I said the ordinances have no gender? Exactly right.

Starting point is 00:09:46 We don't even understand all the reasons why there's any kind of gender differentiation even in terms of ordination is concerned. If you want to start a word, maybe this is a good exercise too, ORD on the board and say fill in the blank when it comes to priesthood, are they going to say ordination? Or are they going to say ordinance? As we saw in section 84, God cares more about ordinances than ordination in terms of where he's prioritizing things. Oh, Jared, I love that. God cares more about ordinances than about ordination. It's all of us receiving the ordinances, the receiver of

Starting point is 00:10:28 erroneic priesthood ordinances and melchester priest's ordinances. Thank you. Amen. That's what God promised from the start. In premortality, the promise he made was there will be a way for all of you to come home. There's going to be a fall. There's going to be a creation and a fall and an atonement. I promise all three. When you fall, there will be ways to come back up. There will be ordinances of justification and ordinances of sanctification. If we thought Moses sought diligently to sanctify his people, that's nothing compared to the father's diligence in trying to sanctify us through the plan whereby he sends his son. Here's this oath. this covenant that God has given from premortality on verse 33 for whoso is faithful unto the obtaining

Starting point is 00:11:12 these two priesthoods of which I have spoken and the magnifying their calling are sanctified by the spirit unto the renewing of their bodies to think about being faithful to obtain now that's an interesting one are we obtaining priesthood office or obtaining priested ordinance could be either one but in the context of so much emphasis on ordinances, that's where I would lean. Am I being faithful to obtain all of the blessings and ordinances that both Aronic and Melchizedic priesthood has to offer me? Am I seeking justification? Am I seeking sanctification?

Starting point is 00:11:48 Am I being prepared through this preparatory gospel to then receive the fullness? Am I magnifying all of that that comes as a part of that? Is it sanctifying me through the spirit? Is my body being renewed in that process? We probably all had experiences with that. I see very aged general authorities and blown away by the renewal of their bodies that is happening before our eyes. But as a result of all that, 34, they become the sons of Moses and of Aaron. I would say the daughters of Moses and Aaron as well.

Starting point is 00:12:22 Let's go back a few generations. They're the seat of Abraham and of Sarah, therefore. Here they are grounded in priesthood ordinances, but also grounded in the Abrahamic covenant, whereby all the families of the earth will be blessed. This is Zion. It's for everyone. We're trying to bring everybody home. Here's the seat of Abraham.

Starting point is 00:12:41 It's the church. But more than that, it's the kingdom. Beyond that, it's the elect of God. I love these layered identities that are being described in verse 34 that we get to be a part of because we've been adopted into this family through the ordinances of salvation. At baptism, I receive a new family. identity. I've taken on Christ. Christ is my father and church is my mother. I'm part of this family. When I'm endowed, I'm given family identity, a family name and a family responsibility.

Starting point is 00:13:16 When I'm sealed in the temple, I join the Abrahamic covenant, Abraham's and Sarah's side by side across the altar. It's incredible what's happening here. Then let's repeat and expand. Verse 35, also all they who receive this priesthood, receiving its ordinances, receiving its blessings, receiving its guidance. If you'll receive that priesthood, they receive me, saith the Lord. And then the dominoes keep falling. For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me, he that receiveth me, receiveth my father, receiveeth my father, receiveth my father's kingdom. Therefore all that my father hath shall be given unto them. This is according to the oath and covenant, which belongeth to the priesthood. It's what it's for. It's what I promised to do when you accepted the

Starting point is 00:14:05 plan in premortality. If the goal from the start was for the father to give us all that he has, wow, how's that even possible? He's seeking diligently to sanctify his people so that we can behold his face, enter his rest, and stay there eternally. That is impossible on my own. No Abraham will inherit any of that without Sarah by his side, the absolute need for not only the division of labor between erroneous ordinances and Melchizedic ordinances, but the division of labor between mothers and fathers and wives and husbands and priests and priestesses, kings and queens. Again, temple is where we're seeing all of that laid out beautifully. The kind of priesthood that functions there is a closer approximation to the kind of celestial

Starting point is 00:14:55 governance in our heavenly parents than what we see even at church. Temple is closer to heaven than churches. And the kind of officiating that we see in priesthood in the temple, that's closer to what we'll see in the model of heaven as well. Yeah. Wouldn't you say then that division of labor, church, erronic temple. Melchastic. A lot of what we do at church is very erronic priesthood based. You have the bishop there, sacrament, baptism. This is all very eromic priesthood. Let's go to the temple, very Malkesitic priesthood based. Book Mormon, Gospel 101, Doctrine of Covenants, graduate school. Well, yeah, we're getting our PhDs in priesthood in this revelation. Yeah. Yeah. Jared, if you could simplify this for me, I identify with our listeners who say, okay, wait, wait,

Starting point is 00:15:44 wait, wait, I want to understand. When the Lord says, whoso, men or women, is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthood of which I have spoken. You're not talking about, ordained. You're talking about receiving the ordinances? That's how I would describe it. Is it another possibility? Because some would say, wait a minute, in the same breath, he talks about magnifying your calling. Okay, fine, but what's our calling? Again, let's go back to the seat of Abraham. Bless all the families of the earth. Yeah, it's so radically inclusive that all the families of the earth have to be blessed by this. There's this interesting balance in the Abrahamic covenant between exclusivity and inclusivity. Because when he says, in thee and in thy seed, ooh, careful, that's

Starting point is 00:16:27 really exclusive. In our post-colonial age, that doesn't fly. Well, don't stop there then. In thee and in thy seed, there's exclusivity. Shall all the families of the earth be blessed? There's radical inclusivity. Honestly, the moment we stop being inclusive is the moment God stops being exclusive in terms of choosing us. I mean, Elder Bedinars taught this beautifully. We choose God. That's what makes God choose us, but our job as chosen people is to choose everyone else to be chosen as well. The moment we stop being a missionary church is the moment we stop being God's church. The moment we stop being a priested church that extends the blessings of priesthood ordinances to all of God's children, then that's the moment we're cut off from that priesthood as well. Here's his oath. Here's his covenant. I'll bring

Starting point is 00:17:11 everyone home. How am I going to do it? I'm going to send Moseses and errands and Miriams. I'm going to send people that will go and extend these blessings. The fact that men cannot perform saving ordinances in the temple for women lets us know that if it's only men and their priested ordination to office, then half of God's children aren't coming home. Which means the other half isn't coming home either since we can't come home independent. Without the other half. It's amazing the combination of both sides of this that we have to be equally yoked

Starting point is 00:17:46 and anxiously engaged in this work, or it's not going to work. None of those blessings come to me independent of my ceiling to my wife. I need her as much as she needs me. I can't perform ordinances for women in the temple. I always laugh when you walk in, and there's men on one side of women on the other. I'm holding my wife's hand as we're walking down the aisle. Then I've said, well, I'll see you in the celestial kingdom. The temple makes it crystal clear.

Starting point is 00:18:14 if you're still separate, you're not in heaven yet. The only way to be together is in the celestial room. And if that's the plan, then no wonder this oath God makes, this covenant that he makes, is meant to bring all of his children, daughters and sons, together and is one with each other and one with him. I think Sister Burton was inspired to say, memorize this stuff. Have it floating through your mind as you connect doctrinal dots and you ponder principles, make these kinds of celestial connections. Am I magnifying my calling? Am I concentrating my effort on what it's meant to accomplish in the lives of those I'm called to serve? Am I obtaining

Starting point is 00:18:57 all the promises God has given me? Am I seeking his mysteries and developing the power of godliness, receiving all of the blessings that he has in store? If we'll do that, it's only a matter of time where the father can give us all that he has, which was his intention from the start. As we've been studying the last five years, come follow me, one thing that stood out to me, I said this earlier, but I'll say it again, the Lord called on Abraham and Sarah and their posterity to bless all the families of the earth. They went to Egypt for a little while to learn a very difficult lesson. They come out of Egypt, they get into the promised land, they choose kings, and the Lord says, we're going to scatter you, but one day I'm going to bring you back together again

Starting point is 00:19:46 so that you can bless all the families of the earth. Here he is. What year is this? 1832. He stays on message. I'm going to keep it. Here we are in 2025. Same message, President Nelson. I was talking to our friend Anthony Sweat. I said, tell me how you would explain how you teach Section 1, the only true and living church. And he said something that stuck with me. He said, I would say authorized, authorized to administer the ordinances that bring people into the House of Israel. Now, what does the Lord say?

Starting point is 00:20:23 Once you are in, the Father and I will not break. We will not be moved. You are in. You are on the team. Go bless the entire earth. Go bless all those families. Jared, you mentioned earlier, I have to have my other half. Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebecca, the majority of the church I believe is single. How do I read this and say, okay, I know I'm part of it, but am I really part of it?

Starting point is 00:20:53 I would simply say anticipation. The fact that a loving Father in heaven assures us that if we'll simply stay faithful, again, that word that begins the oath and covenant, whoso is faithful, when will that obtaining come? When will that receive it? come. I want to be open. I was a receiver in high school and college. There were so many games that they never threw me the ball. And I wonder, was I open? I was trying to be. Does the quarterback trust me? Will you get me the ball? We have a perfect quarterback. If we'll simply keep trying to get open, the day will come when we receive. The day will come when we obtain. That's the beauty of these ordinances. The fact that we administer them for the dead, as well as for the living, lets us know how easy a problem that is to fix even beyond the veil. If we're wrestling with ordinances versus attributes, that verse that I referred to earlier in the doctrine covenants that develop all

Starting point is 00:21:52 these things, but make sure that you're also obeying the ordinances. If I'm having a hard time obtaining these ordinances because I haven't found my other half, keep on working on your faithfulness, keep on working on developing these Christ-like attributes, keep on magnifying your callings, whichever callings you've received, it's easy for the Lord to take care of ordinances at any time. He can't just take care of our attributes unilaterally. That's not something that's just going to get fixed in the next life, whereas any absence of our other half, we can become all that the Lord wants us to be independently in preparation for when we won't be quite so independent. I got to make note of this. We really hit it hard that priesthood is about ordinances,

Starting point is 00:22:38 but we need to follow up with. Ordinances are about attributes. What does he say at the beginning of those verses earlier? This is all about receiving the mysteries of the kingdom, the knowledge of God, the power of godliness. To me, it's all about means and ends. The ends is coming to know God, to be with God, to be like God. Ordinances are a means. to move in that direction. But am I moving in that direction, even independent of ordinances, then can those ordinances be provided at some point in this life or the next? We do that with baptisms for the dead. We do that for endowments for the dead. I'm so grateful that apostles and prophets from the beginning have reassured that any blessing that seems to have been withheld me

Starting point is 00:23:21 in this life, if I continue faithful, it will be promised me in the life to come. To my single brothers and sisters. I go back to Isaiah 56, these glorious reassurances that you'll have blessings greater than what you thought you were missing out on. Blessings that are better than sons and of daughters, he says in that text. I trust heavenly parents that have laid out a plan that is foolproof and flawless, if we'll simply come into them and be faithful. This earthly time is so short when you consider it between two eternities. What's Joseph going to be told later on? Thy suffering and thine afflictions will be like a small moment. Earth life is a small moment, but wow, what an important small moment to get sanctified.

Starting point is 00:24:13 Let me bring in a quick President Oakes joke to what you just said, Jared. The challenge to become, President Oaks was talking about the parable of the laborers in the vision. vineyard. He talked about those who come in at the 11th hour. This is what he says. Many who come in the 11th hour have been refined and prepared by the Lord in ways other than formal employment in the vineyard. Like you said, even without the ordinances, I'm moving towards the attributes. These workers are like the prepared dry mix to which it is only necessary to add water, the perfecting ordinance of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. With that addition, the ordinance, which can be really quickly taken care of, even in the 11th hour, these workers are in the same state of development

Starting point is 00:25:03 and qualified to receive the same reward as those who have labored long in the vineyard. Amen. Compensatory blessings. Things that they're learning along the way that have helped them access mysteries of God and powers of godliness. I'm amazed the different way. The different way the Lord has to help us develop Christ-like character. For some it's the challenges of marriage. For others, it's the challenges of not being married. For some, it's the challenge

Starting point is 00:25:31 of having children and others is the challenge of not having children yet. If we can trust the divine design and the individual tailoring of our experience that can come from a loving God, then we'll trust the process. We'll trust the pace. So, Jared,

Starting point is 00:25:47 let's keep going here. This is one of those sections that if we were reading a section a day as a family, my boys would look and go, I don't think we're going to finish this week. So let's keep going. Where do you want to go to next? If we want to jump ahead, he's going to start broadening things now. We zoomed out. We were starting broad restoration of the people. Let's go Zion. Let's go temple. Let's go priesthood. Now let's start backing up a little bit. What kinds of things are we supposed to be learning, doing, and teaching for other people? These are missionaries coming back from a mission to return and report, well, it's only a matter of time. They need to go out and start serving some more.

Starting point is 00:26:24 Let's give you some insight on how that can be done. To me, there's a powerful passage that starts in about verse 43. He says, I now give unto you a commandment, to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent heed to the words of eternal life. He says in 44, for you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God. We see that in other scriptures as well. Jesus taught that in his amount of temptations. But this is the moment where I want to pause and say, okay, fine, but what if you're trying to help somebody live by every word that precedeth forth in the mouth of God that doesn't want any of those words?

Starting point is 00:27:00 What do I do with my child who's struggling in their faith? What do I do with my loved one who's left the church? Every time I bring it up, they stiff-armed the conversation and shut it down from the start. What do I do there? I remember talking with a group of chaplains. How do I explain truth to people in a secular world? Here I am in the military. I'm a chaplain and I'm trying to share true principles from Bible or Book of Mort, whatever

Starting point is 00:27:27 they're open to, but in a secular military, some people aren't very open to much at all. I brought them to this passage because I've never seen a better place in Scripture lay out some possibilities of what do I do when I can't share the gospel with somebody. I wish I would have understood this as a missionary. I'm grateful I finally am starting to get it now. What I love about this passage, if you look at verse 45, he starts giving you a bunch of synonyms. In 43 and 44, you've got to have the words of eternal life. We want straight out of the mouth of God.

Starting point is 00:28:01 We're going to hit it to you right between the eyes. But what if somebody blocks that? It reminds me of someone who has a sickness. The doctor says, oh, well, you need this medication. He prescribes the medication. Then you're allergic to it. It's like, oh, great, what am I supposed to do? The very thing that's supposed to cure me is causing additional problems.

Starting point is 00:28:21 What's my next option? The doctor will typically say, well, there are some other medications that attack the same problem, but go about it in a different way. Are there some alternatives? 45 gives us some beautiful alternatives. He says, for the word of the Lord, which is what he'd been saying in the last two verses, is truth. Let's add truth to the mix. Maybe that's a little less scriptural and a little more broad. Whatsoever is truth is light.

Starting point is 00:28:49 You guys a few weeks ago talked about light from a physics perspective. Maybe it's just the eyes are opening. I'm starting to see things a little bit more clearly. It's growing brighter and brighter as we approach the perfect day. Can I handle light? What about the next synonym? Whatsoever is light is spirit, even the spirit of Jesus Christ. When I look at verse 45, here we've got five.

Starting point is 00:29:12 Alternative medicines. Word, truth, light, spirit, and Jesus. Any one of those will do the same kind of good. It'll move people in the right direction. Now, if I'm talking to someone who's left the church or someone who's a secular humanist and is not really open to the missionary discussions, I'm probably not going to lead out with Jesus. I'm probably not going to lead out with Word of the Lord. I mean, if somebody's left the church, but they're still Christian, okay, let's talk to Jesus, okay? If you're still holding on to Christ, beautiful. We can focus on him. If someone's open to scripture, great, we can do that.

Starting point is 00:29:52 And I can build on common beliefs with my Bible believing brothers and sisters and go from there. But if word sounds too scriptural, if Jesus sounds too churchy, what about truth, light, and spirit? With spirit, for example, if even that sounds too religious, well, some people say, well, I'm spiritual, not religious. Great. Then let's not talk religion. Let's just talk spirit. Because the one can lead to the other.

Starting point is 00:30:17 They're beautifully, mutually reinforcing. But what's least toxic in this list of synonyms? And as I'm pondering this wayward child, or if I'm pondering this spouse that's left the church, I don't want to slam them with scripture. The dukes come up. Now we're fighting over this. Instead, let's talk light. And things that bring perspective.

Starting point is 00:30:41 into your life. Let's talk truth. That truth could come from other world religions. It could come from philosophy. It could come from movies and music. There's so much beautiful truth out there. When he says, Spirit, there's a passage in Galatians 5, I bet we all quoted this on our missions, that the fruits of the Spirit are, and then he gives this beautiful list, it's love and its joy and its meekness and its hope, all these beautiful things. But then do you remember how Paul ends that verse? It's really interesting. He gives all these beautiful lists of the fruits of the spirit. Then at the end, he says, against which there is no law.

Starting point is 00:31:19 And the end of that always confused me, like, what does it even mean by that? But I realize people who want to make your religion illegal in their lives will never pass a law against love and goodness and kindness and hope. It's almost like, I want to condemn religion. I don't want church in my life. but the fruits of the spirit, well, can we not call it spirit? That's just still saying it seems too churchy. But being kind and being loving, being meek and being gentle, I'm not going to pass a law against that.

Starting point is 00:31:53 Who on earth would do that against which there is no law? In some ways, there's no defense. That's just something I'm open to and want it to be part of my life. For me, it's not a matter of how can I squeeze this scripture into the text I send my wayward child. Rather, how do I help them feel the Spirit of God? Maybe I don't even call it the Spirit of God. How many steps removed do I need to be where it's safe for them and they put their dukes down? Am I just going to be truth in a book that they're reading that has nothing to do with religion? But boy, there is truth a plenty. I can build on that. Forty-five is this beautiful

Starting point is 00:32:36 first step of, I've got all kinds of options. I can pick whichever approach, the person will be most open to, whichever synonym they're late least allergic to, because then I'm going to count on verse 46 kicking it, which says that the spirit giveth light to every man that cometh into the world, and the spirit enlighteneth every man through the world that hearken to the voice of the spirit. If I understand what 46 is telling me, oh, wait a minute, there's this resonant frequency that everyone is wired to, tuned to, every person who's ever lived has the light of Christ in their life it's given to everyone that comes into the world the spirit enlightens them huh in some ways i've got all these alternate medications

Starting point is 00:33:24 i've got all these options i can use then i trust that there's something within that person that resonates with truth or with light or with spirit or with jesus or with word whatever i use the tuning fork as the analogy where if somebody hit a tuning fork and then someone else on the other side of the room has a tuning fork that's tuned to the same pitch, it starts to vibrate. It hits resonant frequency. I don't even know how that happened, but that C-sharp over there is really getting my C-sharp going. There's this resonance. If I'm trying to share the gospel with somebody as a missionary or I'm trying to help a wayward child back into the faith, I'm thinking, number one, pick something that they're more open to,

Starting point is 00:34:07 something less toxic. Bank on the fact that there's something good in them. They're a child of God. There will be a resonant frequency with whatever truth I'm offering. Then next verse, we're making progress here, but it's slow. Next verse, 47, everyone that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father. What that verse adds is that resonant frequency I have in me also acts as a homing beacon to bring me to the source of that frequency, which is God. Pick whatever they're most open to. And if they're open to the Jesus one, hallelujah.

Starting point is 00:34:44 But if they're not, can I find truth that they're open to and just strike the court? If I'll be patient through this process, allow it to organically unfold, then as they listen to that voice, as they heed that truth, as they are open to that light, they respond to it as they feel the resonant frequency, it draws them in the direction of the source. That's God. They're coming unto the Father. We're still not done. But we haven't even touched the church yet. This has nothing to do with get him through the chapel doors. Like, slow down. Hold your horses. But if they're hearkening to the voice of the spirit, this is like when we were kids and we're playing that hotter, colder game. You know, getting hotter, getting hotter.

Starting point is 00:35:31 And it's like, I'm feeling the resonance is stronger. There's more light here. There's more truth. There's more word. There's more joy. There's more rest. Pick whatever word it is. But as I come unto God, even the Father, there's verse 47.

Starting point is 00:35:46 Now verse 48 is the first time the church finally comes onto the scene. 48. And the Father teacheth him of the covenant, which he has renewed and confirmed upon you, you church members, you elders who have assembled. which is confirmed upon you for your sakes. Yeah, it's helping you, but this is not self-centered. That's just a side benefit. It's not for your sakes only, but for the sake of the whole world.

Starting point is 00:36:14 But be patient in the process. Sometimes we want to jump straight to 48 and say, you're supposed to be part of the church. You broke your covenants. You left. Do they even know what they were leaving? Had they had enough experience back in 45 with word and truth and life? and spirit and Jesus, they weren't feeling light, they weren't feeling truth, they weren't feeling spirit. They're looking for it somewhere because they have a resonant frequency inside.

Starting point is 00:36:42 They'll seek the source of that wherever it might be. And if we can help them tap back into the father, I love it that it's the father who does it in 48 because he knows them. He knows the right pace. He knows the right process. He does it in his way and according to his own will. It's interesting too, even to look at verse 40, 9 and 50, that if that isn't working, it's because they're in bondage. It might be in the bondage to somebody else's sin. It might be in the bondage of my sin because I haven't been treating them the way I should at church. I'm the one getting in their way. Because when he says in 50, by this you may know they are under the bondage of sin because they come not unto me. It's like something's interfering with what is supposed to be a

Starting point is 00:37:27 natural process that, wait, it's not resonating with you? You're not coming unto God? Wow. Maybe I need to go back to verse 45 and rethink these synonyms. Am I doing something to get in the way of their experience with light or truth or word or spirit or Jesus? If I can fix that in whatever I'm doing, eliminate my own sin, if I can try to help them overcome theirs, then the natural process unfolds. My wife works in addiction recovery. Talk about the bondage of sin. Yet to see the goodness in these brothers and sisters that are wrestling for their lives physically as well as spiritually. It is so inspiring to hear my wife's stories of these incredible, valiant fighters to seek recovery and a stand recovery. It's only this bondage that's getting in the way. It's what Lincoln

Starting point is 00:38:30 called the better angels of our nature. This passage suggests that we all have these beautiful angels of our nature. We need to tap into those better angels. If we'll eliminate the kinds of things that interfere with it, the darkness, the clouds the light, the noise that hushes the word, the falsehood that interferes with the truth, the antichrists that, get in the way of Jesus, whatever it might be. Any opposite to the synonyms in 45, that's what's going to be the obstacles that get in people's ways. But if we can help them overcome and eliminate that and stop being the obstacle ourselves that they need to overcome, then the natural process will bring them back into God's presence. To me, that it's beautiful.

Starting point is 00:39:17 That is wonderful. Dr. Franklin was here to talk to us about light a few weeks ago. He said, sometimes we do that very thing. We have a really bright flashlight. We want to show people the way, so we put it right in their eyes, right? Look at this light that I have and there, that's too much. I can't see anything. Now, I was speaking to the women's conference at BYU. I said, how many of you have a child that doesn't go to church that has stepped away from the church? And a lot raised their hand. And I said, and how many of you texted them that it was general conference two weeks ago? And most of them raised their hand, and they looked at each other and just laughed. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:58 Are they jumping to 48 when we need to stay in 45? Yeah. Share nice thoughts that everybody can agree with, everybody can love, against which there is no law. There's no hatred of kindness. Very few people that I know of hate goodness and kindness. Hank, you remember the story of the kid who showed up in my Sunday school class with a Mohawk. pierced up well do you start with dress and grooming no that's stephen covey again you start with a relationship god is really loves you you start with with truth and light you can find truth and

Starting point is 00:40:39 light in tv shows i saw a show the other day and i learned the best lesson boom what a great question to ask people whether they're non-members never members former members what's something true that you've learned recently something that spoke to you exactly wherever that might be from whatever source to me that's the joy of interfaith dialogue even when i'm talking with former members of the church i try to reframe that in my mind as oh this is just an interfaith dialogue i don't have to think about that you used to share my faith and you've fallen away from it now i'm going to judge you no we have different faiths different approaches you're probably reading things i'm not reading which means you're probably truths that I haven't learned in the same way. And I just want to be open to that. And honoring that

Starting point is 00:41:28 they're on a journey, honoring the fact that verse 46 still applies to them, they have the light of Christ. It's drawing them in the direction of goodness. Tell me where it's leading you. Right. These can be beautiful experiences. The challenge, though, I think this does lead to our next point is what I mentioned before, what if it's my sin that's keeping people away? What if I'm the obstacle that's interfering with the resonant frequency? Because the Lord has some pretty strong language

Starting point is 00:42:01 about his church and some of the ways that we can get in the way of people. For this one, we could start in verse 54, for example, where he says, your minds in times past have been darkened. If it's darkened, then you're getting in the way of light. But he says, because you have treated lightly the things you have received. Now, he's going to get really specific

Starting point is 00:42:22 on what those things are, but he says that that vanity, and that's an interesting word, what is it that's vain, where's the vanity coming in that's making me not accept the same level of excitement that God has given me this gift, but this vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. Yikes. For this one, I'd much rather go to section one and see, hey, we're they only true in living church with which the Lord is well pleased. I like that one. Remember, section one was given November of 1831, so this is not that far distant. Now, wait, I thought you liked us. You said you liked us. Now we're all under condemnation. This is like the Lord's relationship with Peter. It seems like every other chapter.

Starting point is 00:43:08 Yeah. You're doing great. Good example. Get behind me, Satan. Yeah. Yes. 56. Yes. This condemnation. resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. Don't feel like you're the nice exception to the rule. Now, you're wearing this thing together. Zion's going to be one heart, one mind, then we all have to pull together. But he still hasn't said what it is. It's your vanity, it's your unbelief. Then 57, okay, let me spell it out. They shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant. That word keeps coming up. The new covenant, even the book of Mormon, and the former commandments which I have given them.

Starting point is 00:43:45 not only to say, you guys can give the Book of Mormon lip service all you want, not only to say, but to do, according to that which I have written, that they may bring forth fruit meat for the Father's kingdom. Otherwise, there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion. Wow. There's something about the Book of Mormon that's a hinge to all of this. This is a sensitive spot for God. I gave you the Book of Mormon. And in fact, this is where the date comes in. because when did Joseph Smith receive the Book of Mormon on September 22nd, 1827?

Starting point is 00:44:21 Why that date? Because for the last four years before that, every September 22nd, he's praying at night in 1823 on September 21st. The angel Maroni appears on the 21st or the 22nd. I don't know, is it before midnight or after? But the next morning when Joseph gets up and goes out into the field, it's now September 22nd And dad says, yeah, go listen to the angel, do what he says. In some ways, the way you and your wives feel about your anniversaries is how Joseph and

Starting point is 00:44:50 Maroni feel about September 22nd. I think they get together. It's every year for five years, we are doing this. Then five years later, to the day, that's what blows me away. You had five visits throughout these years of preparation every time on September 22nd. Now it's 1832. It's been five years to the day since you unearthed. the Book of Mormon. This voice from the dust has now been collecting dust for the last five

Starting point is 00:45:18 years. What are you doing, Joseph? What are you doing, saints? This is a date that is drilled into Joseph's mind and heart because of the experiences. Man, we'll talk about well-timed correction and condemnation. Joseph, you and the saints are supposed to be better. You've been treating it lightly. There's actually been a lot of interesting scholarship done about Book of Mormon reception history, and then the early saints used it as an arrow, not a destination, but they felt the arrow pointed to Joseph. And it was like, well, the book is true, and Joseph was the prophet who revealed it. Joseph's a prophet. Well, now we can eliminate the middleman. This was such a biblical culture that the saints grew up on the Bible. They ate, drake, and slept, breathed the Bible. Then they

Starting point is 00:46:05 see so much biblical resonance in the book of Mormon, but it's a second witness. It's a new world scripture. It's pointing to the restoration of the gospel and this prophet that brought it forth. So it served its purpose. The book of Mormon introduced me to the church and the prophet, and now I'm going to be part of the church, and I'm going to follow the prophet, and I'm going to put the book of Mormon back on the shelf. I'm just going to stick back with the Bible. That was an interesting problem. There were some beautiful exceptions to the rule. Joseph Smith taught from the book of Mormon powerfully. You get a Parley P. Pratt who has that famous, I'm not hungry, I'm not tired, I'm just

Starting point is 00:46:42 feasting upon the word, then you look at Parley's kids, he named so many of them, Book of Mormon name. There's a Tiancombe Pratt, there's an Abish Pratt. Parley loved the Book of Mormon. Awesome. You have these handful of saints that were Book of Mormon converts and held to the Book of Mormon from that point on. But honestly, most early saints.

Starting point is 00:47:05 thankful now it's brought me to the church and I'm good to go here the Lord is like do you guys know what you're missing actually you don't because you've treated it lightly and you've allowed the voice from the dust to recollect dust until you dust it off permanently and talk about it more and live by it more and bring forth fruits meat for the father's kingdom which is what the book of Mormon is going to inspire you to do then you're still under condemnation the three of us are old enough to remember the Ezrataph Benson days. I joke that when people ask me, who's your favorite book of Mormon prophet? I'll often say, Ezra Taf Benson ranks up there right alongside Captain Moronai or King Benjamin or Abinadai, because he's the one that convinced me

Starting point is 00:47:53 to study the Book of Mormon like I'd never studied it before. As a teenager growing up in the Benson years, it almost became a joke that like, here comes at general conference, President Benson's taking the stand, and we're all, I wonder, what he's going to talk about. Because we knew it was going to be the Book of Mormon every single time. I laughed one conference when he stood up and he said, today I'm going to speak about. And we're like, wait for it. Book of Mormon. We know it. He's all the doctrine and covenants. We're like, whoa, he's going to teach the doctrine and covenants. But then he says, and it's witness of the Book of Mormon. We're like, oh, okay, we see what you did there. But it's still Book of Mormon.

Starting point is 00:48:26 And it seems like every once in while he'd get up, quote, this exact passage in Section 84, say the church is under condemnation for treating lightly the Book of Mormon. I mean, seminary Institute didn't start teaching the Book of Mormon until very late in the game. The Lord's up there pulling out hair going, do you have any idea what you're missing? Again, President Benson, the church is under condemnation collectively, the entire children of Zion. There's no exceptions to this. We need to study the Book of Mormon. We need to preach the Book of Mormon. We need to flood the earth with the Book of Mormon. We need Book of Mormon art, Book of Mormon music, Book of Mormon poetry, and sermons. we need to be immersed in this.

Starting point is 00:49:07 We would try. We'd read more and we'd study more. Then six months later, President Benson would get back up and he said, thank you for all your work with the Book of Mormon. We're still under condemnation for treating it. I'm like, oh, okay, we haven't done enough yet. I remember growing up through that,

Starting point is 00:49:25 he changed the trajectory of the church by grounding it in the Book of Mormon in ways that no prior prophet had, except Joseph Smith probably. Just like President Nelson is grounding the church in the gathering of Israel and the Abrahamic covenant in ways that no prophet has since Joseph Smith did at the beginning. To me, the power of the Book of Mormon, what timing, what power, what a message the Lord is sending here, that if you really want to tap into God's power and his voice and his will, there's no place to see it quite like the Book of Mormon. I'm curious from you guys. Again, if we can channel our Benson years, what effect did it have on you guys?

Starting point is 00:50:09 Jared, I remember the same thing, knowing he was going to talk about the Book of Mormon. I actually have an email here from brother Brad Wilcox about a study that I guess religious education did. We calculated Book of Mormon citations by members of the first presidency and the quorum of the 12 apostles in the general conference addresses in the 20 years before President Benson's administration. and found 1,233. Okay, that's in 20 years. During the eight years of his presidency, the Prophet Sears, and Revelators cited the Book of Mormon 1,276 times, and in the 20 years following his passing,

Starting point is 00:50:47 they used 3,323 citations. Because of the difference in the length of the time periods, we calculated the average number of references per conference, thus before President Benson's emphasis on the Book of Mormon study, these particular leaders cited the Book of Mormon an average of 30.8 times for conference. During his administration, they cited it an average of 79.8 times, and in the 20 years following his passing, they included an average of 83.1 citations per conference. Interesting to see that that emphasis had an impact.

Starting point is 00:51:28 We all gained a testimony of it, too. One of the interesting things I discovered as a bishop was how often I would feel like the prescription for a problem, whether it was employment or emotional or marriage, was, are you reading the book of Mormon? Which seems strange. But there's a spiritual power that comes into your life. You're going to have an endowment of the spirit that's going to help you with any problem. Exactly. Because throughout this revelation, we've seen this interplay between means and ends. That priesthood is just a means to a higher end, which is godliness. Church is a means to a higher ends, which is a restoration of the people. What you're describing there is absolutely key in our perspective on the Book of Mormon. Because the Book of Mormon is very self-aware. It talks about itself often, but it's not self-absorbed. It's not as like, look at me. I'm amazing. I'm scripture. You should study me more. It's like what Nephi says at the end of Second Nephi 33. If you don't like my book, I hope you like Jesus, because that's the point of it all. Now, of course, if you like Jesus, I think you like the book because they are his words.

Starting point is 00:52:39 But I'm not confusing means and ends. The Book of Mormon's message is not about the Book of Mormon. It's about Jesus. Elder Packer used to say, we are more often condemned by our sins than for them, which means there's something inherent in our actions that condemns us. It's not like God has to come in over the top and ground us. You take that thought here in Section 84, why is the church under condemnation? No, you've already condemned yourselves because you're not Christians.

Starting point is 00:53:09 You Latter-day Saints are Mormons, because you claim a book of Mormon, but don't actually read it. You don't actually do it. You don't allow it to bring forth fruits, meat for your father's kingdom. This whole book, you saw it as ends. This is the book that sets me apart from those Bible believers. This is the evidence of the restoration. Now I'm following Joseph Smith. He's like, no, that was never the point, at least not the end point.

Starting point is 00:53:36 It was means to that end, which was to turn you into people that are fully Christian. The Book of Mormon will do that better than anything else I've ever seen. This book was meant to make Christians of us all. Might be a good time this week to listen to Elder Holland's safety for the soul. Oh, so good. If you want to get a pep talk for the book. Book of Mormon. Jared, I love what you said. The punishment for not reading the book of Mormon is not reading the book of Mormon. You're missing the blessing. He says, love, healing, help, hope, the power of Christ

Starting point is 00:54:15 to counter all troubles in all times, including the end of times. Do either of you want to reject these things? Love, healing, help. Against which there is no love. Yeah. The power of Christ to counter all troubles in all times, including the end of times, that is the safe harbor. God wants for us in personal or public days of despair. That is the message with which the book Mormon begins, and that is the message with which it ends. I would love to stay here. I would invite everyone to go back, start with First Nephi, go back to all the follow him episodes, even all the unshaken episodes. Listen to them all on the Book of Mormon. There are a lot of places. we can go. Hopefully the Lord's not going to be upset if we move on because we do have some more

Starting point is 00:55:03 to talk about here. This section is prolific. We're only about halfway through the revelation and probably far more than halfway through our time. In some ways, the second half, though, can be more easily condensed or summarized because now we're drilling right down into those missionaries. So much of the rest of this second half focuses on that. Maybe we can jump around skip a stone cross this pond with some verses that might be worth highlighting. Jared, is the Lord showing forth an increase of love to those whom he has reproved in verse 61, I will forgive you of your sins with this commandment. You can see him saying, blessed are ye?

Starting point is 00:55:46 And as much as you receive these things, he's following up with, I love you, I love you. The evidence of that love is giving them another chance to do better. Go back out. When he says that in verse 61, I forgive you of your sins, but here's the commandment I can give you so you can move forward. Remain steadfast in your minds in solemnity, the spirit of prayer, but here's what I want you to do, bearing testimony to all the world of those things which are communicated unto you. Go out and share it.

Starting point is 00:56:17 Share the book of Mormon. Share these previous commandments you've received. Go teach them about justification and sanctification through Aronic and Melchizedic ordinances. go build Zion so that I can come again. There's so much of that. Like I said, for the rest of this revelation, he's going to give them instructions on how to be the best missionaries they possibly could be.

Starting point is 00:56:36 Don't you love that it's 1832? And he's saying, go to all the world. They haven't left North America yet. They've got their work cut out for them, and we still have ours cut out for us. Let's highlight some of those verses you were talking about. One of the ones that I love is verse 62, right on the heels of what we just saw in 61,

Starting point is 00:56:55 go into all the world, then this part, unto whatsoever place you cannot go, you shall send, that the testimony may go from you unto all the world, unto every creature. So many of our students now were missionaries during the COVID years, and all of a sudden couldn't go out of the apartment or couldn't go as they normally did, but the entire missionary force learned how to send in ways that we hadn't learned when we were free to go. The three of us are good examples of trying to send things out into the world to places that we cannot go. The only reason I even started podcasting was because COVID shut down my institute class. I couldn't go to the institute to teach.

Starting point is 00:57:37 So I'm brainstorming. How can I send word out to my students? I guess I'll film some lessons and stick them online and maybe a few hundred institute kids will watch. And as we've seen, the world is hungry for any truth, light, word, spirit. Jesus, that we can send to them. I'm amazed that the nimbleness of the missionary department in figuring out ways how to do just that. If we're ever hesitant to share the gospel, can we send it? Can we post something on social media? Can we make a difference in helping people resonate with this resonant frequency? There's so many different ways to do it.

Starting point is 00:58:15 President Steve Lunt said that his business partner, I think they were in London or something, his business partner's son was on a mission in London, and they couldn't do anything. They started doing a little Facebook thing about cooking Mexican food. It went crazy. One of the wonderful impacts of that was these guys walking around with those name tags. These are pretty normal guys. In fact, they're pretty funny. It made quite an impression as they were talking.

Starting point is 00:58:45 I remember some other missionaries. The kid sitting there talking about the gospel, he's dribbling a basketball. all. Then he throws it backwards and hits like a shot that's behind. I don't know how many hours you spent doing that. But those things went crazy. Those are not covered in preach my gospel. There's so much of the unknown ahead for them. They have no concept of technological sending the way we see it today. Yet they're doing it with pamphlets and they're publishing newspapers and doing whatever they can to get the word out. There's so much here. I feel guilty for every verse that we skip. He walks you through these signs that will follow those that believe. He walks you through the gifts and powers that he'll give his servants as they go out and share the gospel. There's a beautiful stop, though, in verse 77, where he says, again, I say unto you, my friends. For from henceforth, I shall call you friends. It is expedient that I give you this commandment that you become even as my friends in days when I was with them,

Starting point is 00:59:43 traveling to preach the gospel in my power. You just see this peak at the character of Christ. in the middle of giving them all these instructions on how to be missionaries, he just kind of pauses and reminds them, you're not the first set of missionaries I've sent out. You're not the first group that I instructed. In fact, you missionaries of the latter days remind me of my missionaries in the ancient days. They were my friends.

Starting point is 01:00:09 So are you. Love it. Look at verse 80, right on the heels of that, any man that shall go and preach this gospel of the kingdom and fail not to continue faithful in all things, shall not be weary in mind. I mean, that goes back to the oath and covenant of the priesthood. You're going to be faithful in obtaining and receiving. You're not going to be weary because I'm going to renew your body and sanctify you by the spirit. You won't be darkened because you're

Starting point is 01:00:32 full of light and you're sharing it. Neither in body, limb, nor joint, and a hair of his head shall not fall to the ground unnoticed. They shall not go hungry, neither a thirst. This is so much of like what Jesus taught his original apostles, those early friends. My favorite one, is verse 85. Of all the promises the Lord makes to missionaries, this is the one I doubted most before my mission and was most converted to by the end. 85, neither take ye thought beforehand what you shall say. But treasure up in your minds continually the words of life. It shall be given you in the very hour, that portion that shall be meted unto every man. Sometimes we love the first line. Take no thought beforehand? Sweet. Well, I'm off the hook. He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Keep reading.

Starting point is 01:01:16 second line treasure up continually the words of life make sure it's in there somewhere then the spirit will have something to draw upon to bring back to your remembrance i'm blown away by how many experiences i had in the mission field where i'm in a situation somebody asks a question i have no idea what i'm supposed to do i get this little nudge open your mouth and it shall be filled like with what my foot i don't know what i'm going to say trust me you've treasured up the words of life If you've studied a lot of this, I'll bring it to your remembrance, but just start so many different experiences as a punk 19, 20 year old that then led me into what I've done the rest of my career. When I was in Tennessee, nobody cared that I was the CES coordinator. They didn't care I was the institute director.

Starting point is 01:02:06 They just saw, wait, there's a PhD student that's LDS at Vanderbilt. That's our university. We'll honor that. I got so many invitations from Disciples of Christ, the Episcopalians, and the Catholics, Presbyterians, please come. We trust Vander, but we don't know you, but we trust your school. Come and explain your church to us so that we can kind of be familiar with what kinds of stuff Mitt Romney believes in. What I would typically do was, okay, I'll take maybe 15 minutes and explain some basics, and then I want to open it up to Q&A. I want to know what these people want to know, what the questions I already have. I will assure them when I get them. there, you can ask anything you want. It's all on the table. Nothing's going to hurt my feelings. Thankfully, I learned as a missionary that DNC 84-85 is gospel truth. If you'll put yourself out there and exercise faith, it will be giving you in the very moment, that portion that shall be meted to every man. I found myself saying things to these congregations that I'd never

Starting point is 01:03:08 thought before, connections that were being drawn. I don't know about you guys, But honestly, even podcasting has been so interesting where I'll be filming, then I'm, I'm video editing, and I'm watching myself teach. And I'm sitting there watching to fix the mistakes and correct things, whatever, but I'm sitting there watching myself going, wow, I think that's true. I never thought of that before. What do you mean you never thought of it? That's you talking. I'm like, well, yeah, but it wasn't in my notes. I'd never thought that before.

Starting point is 01:03:41 And it was just that moment of someone out there needs this. I wasn't prepared to give it to them. But thankfully, I'd at least treasured up the words of life so that the Lord had something to work with. Then all of a sudden, in the very moment, a line was drawn, dots were connected. I heard myself say things that I'd never heard somebody say to me. I'm learning. It's the weirdest thing. We know it.

Starting point is 01:04:07 To learn from yourself. But that's one of the ways that you know that you're teaching by the spirit. you're learning things you didn't already know. Section 84, verse 85 was what gave me the initial courage. Like, okay, I guess we're doing this. Then enough times with the Lord coming through and honoring that promise. Now I meet with people that hate the church and are leaving the faith. And, okay, what's your question?

Starting point is 01:04:29 Let's just dig in. I'm excited to see what the Lord gives us all. I've had many moments like that on this show where it just clicked into place. And then all of a sudden, something's, happened that couldn't have happened to the three of us alone. The three of us had to be talking together in order for that moment of clarity to happen. Yeah, I think our audiences are often think like, oh, you guys have it all figured out. It's all in your lesson plans or your outlines. So often, it's in the moment, wow, I just taught truth. It resonated and it was

Starting point is 01:05:07 right, but I had never considered it in those terms. You just get good at making it sound like you knew it the whole time. You keep the poker face like, wow, that was, I mean, of course. I have done that before where have you guys ever been teaching and you comment on your own lesson. You're like, wow, that was actually really good. My students will say, did you just compliment yourself? I think I did. I just had never thought of that before. The Lord keeps offering these kinds of reassurances and promises to his servants. And if you jump ahead to verse 88, this is one I know President Monson absolutely loved, quoted it frequently. Whoso receiveth you, there I will be also, for I will go before your face. I will be on your right

Starting point is 01:05:52 hand, your left, my spirit shall be in your hearts, my angels round about you to bear you up. Talk about surrounded by that celestial spirit. Just, I've got your back and your side and your front and above and below. There's no way you're not going to make it, because I'm with you every step of the way. Jacob 5, the Lord of the Vineyard, labored with them. He's not in his tower looking down. He is shoulder to shoulder. Should we sing for a moment?

Starting point is 01:06:24 Because by the end of this portion, there's this beautiful hymn of praise. I wish we had the music. We've got the lyrics. I'm waiting for someone with a talent to be able to write the tune. In verse 98, he says, until all shall know me who remain, even from the least unto the greatest, and shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, and shall see eye to eye, and shall lift up their voice, and with the voice together, sing this new song, saying, then verse 99 through 102 is the song.

Starting point is 01:06:57 It's beautiful. Sometimes what we miss in verse 98 is he's quoting Isaiah 52 right there. Isaiah 52 is what Abinidae quoted. It's what Jesus quoted. It's how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of those who publish peace. It's this passage that runs like this golden thread throughout the book of Mormon. We just want the world to know the Prince of Peace. When we finally know him, we will sing out together this beautiful new song.

Starting point is 01:07:28 The way it's described in verse 99, the Lord hath brought again Zion. it's how this revelation began it's what we're trying to build the lord hath redeemed his people israel we've finally been restored to a right relationship with him there's this abrahamic covenant the oath and covenant of the priesthood it's all being fulfilled the way the lord intended in one hundred the lord hath redeemed his people and satan is bound and time is no longer are we getting a sense of the second coming the lord hath gathered all things in one which is the man which is the man mission of this final dispensation, according to the book of Ephesians, that we'll gather together in one all things in Christ. All truth, all light, all spirit, all word, all Jesus. The Lord hath brought down Zion from above. The Lord hath brought up Zion from beneath. There's Zion from below meeting Zion from above. The city of Enoch meeting the new Jerusalem. It's glorious what we're singing about. In 101, the earth hath prevailed and brought forth her strength. And truth is established in her bowels and the heavens have smiled upon her. In a revelation about the

Starting point is 01:08:40 Book of Mormon and this voice from the dust, here's the earth bringing it forth out of her bowels. I mean, giving birth to scripture that's going to change the world. Heaven's smiling down upon all of this. She is clothed with the glory of her God. To be clothed, to be covered, to be endowed. That's the word endowment is a clothing of power from on high he stands in the midst of his people their second coming christ coming suddenly to his temple as malachi promised would happen verse 102 glory and honor and power and might be ascribed to our god for he is full of mercy justice grace and truth and peace forever and ever amen it's like the lord's prayer i just want to sing it alongside Andrea Bachele. How can I keep from singing? This is Second

Starting point is 01:09:35 Coming. This is Zion. If there's a national anthem there in the kingdom of God, maybe are these the lyrics? John, I know I say this a lot, but let's make sure we remember that this came from a 26-year-old farmer. I think the Lord is taking his own advice with all of us, because after that's done that amen they put the pen down this is like the pause like wow it's like 2 a m we've been recording this revelation from the 22nd to the 23rd let's pause it here it's right there that there's a break in the manuscripts then they come back sometime later on the 23rd and get the last oh 17 or 18 verses that starts in 103 if i could just point out maybe just a few last things this is more linguistic This is semantic, but the way the Lord phrases a couple of things have given me pause to ponder.

Starting point is 01:10:34 One's in verse 112, where there's some direction given to Bishop Noel K. Whitney. He's told to travel roundabout and among all the churches, searching after the poor, to administer to their wants by humbling the rich and the proud. This goes back to so much of what the doctrine of covenants has taught about, consecration, rich and poor, reaching across those aisles. But the phrase that struck me was searching. after. Because I think often we are responsive to people's needs, but maybe not proactive in searching for the people that are in need to begin with. Especially LDS culture, we have a

Starting point is 01:11:15 really hard time asking for help. We're independent to a fault because our pioneer ancestors raised us that way. I'm not going to ask for help. I'm just going to pull myself up by my bootstraps. I love that the bishop is told, go search. Don't just respond to the ones who come. Go out and find them. I feel it's that way strongly with people that I work with that are in faith crisis. It's not enough to just wait for them to come. I need to search after. I need to contact trace. I need to go out and let people know that I'm willing to have conversations. You won't be judged. I just hope that we can be far more proactive than we've been. Ben, instead of just reactive when somebody comes with a need, because often by the time that

Starting point is 01:12:01 happens, the real help was needed a long time before. So that's one. I just have us wrestle with. The other also is an approach that we as missionaries or as members could take a little bit better. The ending of this revelation is pretty intense, especially if you live in New York or Albany or Boston. There's some strong language about destruction.

Starting point is 01:12:23 If we're talking Second Coming and New Jerusalem, well, before we get to Adam on Diomond, we have to pass through Armageddon. That's some scary stuff. If we're thinking of this in a Second Coming context, thinking of the end of the world and the abomination of desolations that Ezekiel talked about and that Jesus talked about in Matthew 24, Section 84 ends with that kind of apocalyptic caution. But he says something that I find fascinating in verse 117. I'll just read it verily, I say, the rest of my servants go ye forth, as your circumstances shall permit, in your several callings, unto the great and notable cities and villages. But here's part of your mission call. Reproving the world in righteousness of all their unrighteous and ungodly deeds.

Starting point is 01:13:09 Now, that's a rough one. We're crying repentance. We're calling them out for the mistakes they've made. But then notice the adverbs. We've got some tough verbs there. We're reproving the world. But we have to set forth, here's the first adverb. clearly, let's make sure they get it, then the next adverb, and understandingly the desolation

Starting point is 01:13:29 of abomination in the last days. There's that Ezekiel and Matthew 24 phrase, a desolation that's abominable or abomination that's so bad that it's desolating. These are things that Jesus warned the saints in his day about with the coming of the Roman legions in 70 AD and the destruction of the temple. Preview of coming destructions as far as the end times and the last days are concerned before the coming of Christ. In other words, cry repentance because people need to know the consequences of their sins. Part of what we're going to have to do is lay out those consequences. They get that the desolation of abominations is on its way.

Starting point is 01:14:06 But the adverbs are so striking to me. We have to do it clearly and understandingly. And I think the first, I don't know, 30 years I read that verse, I thought the Lord was being redundant by telling us to be clear and make sure that they understand. More recently, I've noticed, no, those are very different things. He didn't say clearly and understandably. That would be redundant. He said clearly and understandingly.

Starting point is 01:14:39 If I am clear, they understand me. But if I'm understanding, then I understand them. I think one of the hardest things about being, a missionary or crying repentance is we want to be so crystal clear that we're just going to lay it out this is what's going to happen and this is the consequences err on the side of clarity we struggle with being sufficiently understanding where we try to understand where somebody's coming from we hear their side of the story we try to make sense of why they're struggling in certain areas or why they've left the church and why their word and jesus are toxic

Starting point is 01:15:19 but maybe truth and light, maybe I'll be open to. I worry sometimes am I so focused on being clear that I'm not as understanding as I need to be. To me, there's this beautiful contrary being balanced here. It's like when Paul says to the Ephesians, speaking the truth in love, that's a tough combination. Some of us are really good at speaking truth. We don't do it lovingly.

Starting point is 01:15:43 Others of us are really good at speaking in love, but we shy away from truth because it's going to hurt feelings and rustle feathers. Here, to speak clearly, they're speaking the truth, to do it understandingly, there's to do it in love. I just hope that we can do a little bit better at that, especially when we're crying repentance. Beautiful. Jared Halverson, I knew this would be good. When we first chatted about this on the third floor of the JSB, I knew this would be good.

Starting point is 01:16:14 I didn't know it would be this good. I didn't know. I get to hang out with two amazing people, and where two or three are gathered in my name, in some ways the three of us got to do what Joseph did at the beginning of this revelation. We're connecting horizontally and inviting the Lord to connect vertically. In fact, can I give the Lord the last word? The way he ends that in 118 and 119 and 120, For with you saith the Lord Almighty, I will rend their kingdoms.

Starting point is 01:16:41 I will not only shake the earth, but the starry heavens shall tremble. Again, second coming context. for I the Lord have put forth my hand to exert the powers of heaven. In a revelation on priesthood, how beautiful that the source of that power ends by reminding us whose power it is. These are the powers of heaven. It's my hand that I'm exerting and extending to you. You cannot see it now.

Starting point is 01:17:06 Surely that was the case in 1832. Maybe we're starting to see it a little bit better in our day. But we're still little children and have no real clue. just what the Lord has in store for us. But he says, yet a little while, and ye shall see it, and know that I am, and that I will come and reign with my people. The very people I've been trying to restore from the start. The second verse of this revelation, the restoration of my people,

Starting point is 01:17:39 the second to last verse in this revelation, I'm going to come and reign with my people. If that's not restoration, I don't know what it is. He's got it covered from start to finish, which is how he ends here. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. Amen. To feel that amen, know that he is relentless in his pursuit of us. I just hope that we do.

Starting point is 01:18:07 Ordinances are what connect us. If we can lean into that and live into that and invite the rest of the world into it, as well. All will be well, and all will be well, and all manner of thing will be well. I've said this before, John, but I know when I'm in tune with the spirit, I don't want it to end. Jared, thank you. Thank you for spending your time with us. Oh, it was time well spent. Again, I'm so grateful for all that you do. I'm grateful all that we get to do. It's fun to feel like we're all just one big online faculty. Yeah. Send you.

Starting point is 01:18:45 the word to places we cannot go, hoping that people feel that this is the Lord's way of being around about you and bearing you up and bringing you home. That's all we hope for. That's our hope. We're on the same team. It's his team.

Starting point is 01:19:01 He is our head. With that, we want to thank Dr. Jared Halverson for being with us today. We hope everyone will go check out Unshaken, if you haven't done so. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen.

Starting point is 01:19:17 Every episode, we remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. Join us next week. We have more sections of the Doctrine and Covenants coming up on Follow Him. Thank you for joining us on today's episode. Do you or someone you know speak Spanish, Portuguese, or French? You can now watch and listen to our podcast in those languages. Links are in the description below. Today's show notes and transcript are on our website.

Starting point is 01:19:44 follow him.co. That's follow him.com. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Crystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Cabuica, Erie de Gonzalez, and Annabelle Sorensen. Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to him. Follow him.

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Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 84 Part 2 • Dr. Jared Halverson • July 28 - Aug 3 • Come Follow Me

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