Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 98-101 Part 2 : Sherilyn Farnes

Episode Date: September 5, 2021

Sherilyn Farnes returns to discuss “infuriating unfairness” as it relates to the Saints in Missouri and Zion’s Camp. We also discuss enduring the Lord’s chastening with patience and how testimony or transgressions affect multiple generations.Shownotes: https://followhim.co/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannel"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. You know, whenever the Lord talks about, like verse 45, I will avenge the enemy and hundred fold upon his children, upon his children's children, of all them that haemians of the third or fourth generation. Some people might step back and say, well, no way to sec. We're told that we're responsible for our own sins and not for, you know, the sins of our parents. But as I pondered on that,

I thought, is it just that natural consequence of if I'm a bitter angry person and that's what I teach my children, that's the lifestyle that they will grow up with and unless they choose to be a transition figure or a break with and to step away from that, a mission companion that is in that category when she chose to live a better life. But I think you're right, the natural result, the natural result of this kind of behavior is that it's going to be passed down to children. And children, I think Elder Holland said

can take something that their parents do, that they flirt with and turn it into a full blown romance. Yeah, that talk was called a prayer for the children. And I love that. He said, parents shouldn't be surprised if, uh, flirting with cynicism, their children turn that into full blown romance. Yeah. Yeah.

Great statement. Yeah. The idea is that I think you're right. I think that's the natural consequence, Cheryl. And rather than the Lord saying, I'm going to punish the great, grand children of grandchildren of these people. I think he's saying that there's going to be a natural flow down through the family tree unless someone stops it. As we look at section 99, this is about John Murdoch, and this is the same John Murdoch isn't it, that whose wife gave birth to twins, and then his wife died in giving them birth and these twins were those that were

raised by Joseph and Emma. Yes, and that's a common story that we hear but as you look at John Murdoch's life It's even more poignant Because that's just the first wife that he loses he remarries and I believe it's 1836 and his wife dies in 1837. He remarries in 1838 and his wife passes away in 1845. And then he marries again. And so not only does he lose them, but as we probably have alluded to on earlier podcasts, one of the twins that Joseph and Emma adopt, the little boy Joseph, he passes away. John Murdock has given a promise, I believe in a blessing, that when he goes up to Zion and 18, of the twins that Joseph and Emma adopt, the little boy Joseph, he passes away. John

Murdoch has given a promise, I believe in a blessing that when he goes up to Zion in 1834 with Zion's camp, that his children will be safe and that they were, they were healthy, but shortly thereafter his little girl Phoebe passes away. I believe it's Phoebe. And so he loses a lot of family members. He's a seeker. If you look at his biography, I love the biography of San Joseph Smith papers, and making sense, Steve Coltsom, as saying, the spirit of the Lord rested upon me witnessing to me of the truth

as he read the book of Mormon. He wanted to have the spirit teach him where to find truth. And he, unlike most people of his day, essentially gives his life to full-time preaching. He's willing to just move forward and to give his life to preaching full-time. And so DNC 99 is a mission call. It also, well, let's start looking at some of the verses. It's a mission call, but it also is instructions for him how to balance his responsibilities

as a father and as a preacher and minister of the gospel. In verses two to four, I think there's some great insights here of, as people hear about the gospel, as we hear about the gospel, as we are presented with Revelation, we have two options, right? Receive or reject. Verse two, who receive with you, receive with me, and you shall have power to declare my word and the demonstration of my Holy Spirit, which imagine how comforting that is to John Mordech, is he sought the Holy Spirit, you know, for years to be promised that you'll have the Holy Spirit with you. And verse three, who so who are asking me, who receive with you as a little child, receive with my kingdom, and blessed are they, for they shall obtain mercy. On this revelation, we should note it's chronologically out of order in

the doctrine and covenants. It's actually given a year before all these events were talking about. So we're looking at August 1832. So it's just around section 83 between section 83 and 84 chronologically. And in verse four, who rejected you, she'll be rejected of my father in his house. And so I love that that contrast, right? It reminds me to step back and his house. And so I love that contrast, right? It reminds me to step back and say, okay, am I receiving the Lord's word? Am I rejecting the Lord's word? Am I being slothful?

It makes me think of a little story of three devils applying for a job. And the first little devil says, he goes into the interview and he's like, oh, I will be a good devil because I will tell people, none of this gospel stuff is true, none of this Christianity is true.

And the second little devil goes in, he says, I'm going to tell people it's half true. And the third little devil goes in and he says, I'm going to tell people it's all true, but it can wait. It's not important. You don't have to do it now. All the gospel change, Christ, that can all wait. It's true, but it can wait. And since I heard this story, probably 20 years ago, it's stuck with me because it's that concept of,

am I receiving or rejecting? And if I'm not acting on it, is that a tacit rejection by not moving forward? Well, I like that. I've heard something similar. Like, well, second, if I 28, I'm no devil, there is none. So there's no need to repent. There's no heaven, there's no hell,

but I've heard it, there's no need to repent. There's no heaven. There's no hell. But I've heard it. There's no hurry. Another way you put it, it can wait. There's no hurry. A procrastination plug. I saw a bumper sticker that said procrastinate later. I thought that was good. That's a good one.

I just procrastinated, right? And then I went pro. Yeah, I've gone pro. It was an amateur. So how many missions did he fill then? So he filled several missions in the introduction, Joseph and Papers writes for this. They talk about all the people that he baptizes on his mission.

So Murdoch spends time traveling and baptizing about 70 people in four months in Ohio. This is shortly following his baptism, I believe. And then in early 1831, he decides to devote himself full time to the ministry. In June 1831, he's called to go to Missouri, preaching by the way. That's shortly after his wife has just died. And then the rest of 1831, the first half of 1832, he's preaching in Michigan territory, Indiana, Missouri, Ohio. He comes back and then we're in June 1832.

He's called to go again. He finds out his little boy Joseph has died. And then instructs him to resume his preaching this time going to the Eastern United States. But I think it's interesting, right? In verse six, says, now, Verly, I say to you, that is not expediently, you should go until your children are provided for

and sent up kindly into the Bishop of Zion. I think you mentioned John, you've been a Bishop and Hank maybe you as well. I don't know if anyone ever sent their children to you to take care of, but it's kind of an unusual, an unusual charge for the Bishop. And I think it's partly right, he's a single dad, and that culture, it wasn't so common for a man, if his wife passed away to just raise his children alone, he would either find relatives to help or remarry as soon as possible. And so when John went on his mission in 31, his wife had already passed away. And so he had his three older children, Joseph and Emma have the twins, three older children,

are staying with other people. But when he comes back from his mission, the people that took care of those three kids, demand payment, they're like, okay, I took care of your kid on your mission now. Now, you need to pay me back for taking care of your child. And so perhaps because of this, the Lord tells him, okay, send your children up to Bishop Partridge in Zion. And so he makes arrangements for his children. Pays a man named Kayla Baldwin to take his three oldest children who are Oris John and Phoebe to Missouri. And then they live with various church members, uh, Phoebe living with Sydney Gilbert, who has the, the store there and is the uncle of Mary Rollins, Lightner and Caroline, who are the ones that saved the pages. Um, and so that's kind of an,

an interesting, a side note there that, uh, I think it's in many ways reassuring that the Lord is telling telling John again, I see you, I see that you're a single father. And let's make sure that your children are taking care of. Let's make sure that you know that they're safe. And then I'm going to call you to go, but take care of your children first. I really like that because so many times we hear stories about, Hey, I'm calling you on a mission. Sorry, you have 12 kids and your wife is sick and they're all sick. You just say goodbye and go on a mission. And, you know, things have changed.

We don't do it that way. But I love that, you know, how it says in the proclamation, it's the world on the family that fathers are to provide. And here he's making sure your children are provided for. I like that word there. And so it's not reckless or to just go, but make sure that they're provided for then go. Yes. Agreed. And I think it's interesting his his offer. It says in verse seven, after

a few years of thou desire of me, thou mayest go up until the goodly land to possess thy inheritance. Otherwise, thou shall continue proclaiming my gospel until they'll be taken. You can go design, you can keep preaching. Kind of like what the Lord offers, you know, Peter and John's, like you wanna stay and preach, do you wanna to be taken up? Yeah, that's cool. That both make good choices.

Both want to serve the Lord. That's a good parallel. Yeah. Yeah, I think if I were to ask for Revelation, John, it might just be verse eight, continue proclaiming the gospel until you're done. Tell you're taken. Right? Like, that's what I want you to do. Just keep teaching the gospel and until you die. And that, you know, that's a, that's what we're all supposed to do. We're supposed to be doing the work of salvation and gathering Israel until, until we're taken. And I think

taken means what? Hank, what does it mean until you're taken? Yeah, I think it tells the Lord's like until I bring you home. Yep. When does he go? When does he pass away? Do we know? He dies in Beaver, Utah in 1871, just before Christmas. So he definitely goes west in the camp of Israel, but yeah, moves. What's that? 40 more years, 39 more years after this revelation. So he's, and he's more missions. He continued to go on missions.

He went to Australia. Yeah. Lots of different missions. So imagine that we're at section 100. What's the context here? We've hit the triple digits, John. We've hit that. Yeah. We need to have a moment for all the listeners who've listened to every episode

and have a moment of silence for them. Yeah, this is the century mark. Yeah, and Sheryl and almost Dr. Sheryl and Farron's is with us. This is a blessed moment. I feel honored to be here. I am enjoying visiting with all of you. So thank you.

It's like when the odometer turns in your car and it's kind of like you want to pull over and take a picture. Oh, pullover. I thought you were supposed to get a milkshake when it turns to a zeroes, a z-ros, you get a milkshake. I like your idea better. I miss that rule. Well, it works retroactively too, so I'll make it there.

Go up and make for all the ones that you missed your whole life. Yeah, I like it when in the section heading something unexpected comes up and all of a sudden they're back in New York. You're going wait, I thought we left New York. So what are they doing back in New York? Yes. So Joseph and Sydney rigged in around a mission from October to November, but I have to read you these first few lines of, there's a great app that I love called scripture plus from Book of Mormon Central. And Steve Harper wrote a bunch of introductory like context. They have cross-references. They have, you know, little articles about it. They tell you who the people are. They show you pictures of where it was. There's videos.

And Kise Griffiths also is writing commentaries for them. Those are also great. But I love and Kise Griffiths also was writing commentaries for him. Those are also great. But I love Steve's opening minds here. He says of section 100, quote, the adulterous deposit, Dr. Phyllasis Horobot, threatened to wash his hands in Joseph Smith's blood. Besides that, the Saints in Missouri were in the midst of being forced from the Promised Land.

On the bright side, missionary work around the Great Lakes was thriving. And so you have this of this contrast of, hey, there's a lot of terrible going on, but around the Great Lakes, kind of the area where Niagara Falls is, Toronto, Buffalo, has been historically this great successful area for church members.

And so Joseph Smith and Sydney Rigden were requested to travel there by some recent converts, which I love this theme of early church history. People hear about the gospel and then either they themselves say, I'm going to go tell my family or they say, hey, can you send someone on a mission here? I can't go right now, but someone's going in that direction. Would you stop by and see this relative of mine? And so they go travel to preach in this area in North Western Pennsylvania, Southwestern New York, and a portion of Upper Canada, which is the part of Canada that's just above Lake Ontario, so like Toronto area. And so about a week after they leave, Joseph Smith writes in his

diary, he feels, you know, called to go on this mission. He says, I feel very well in my mind, the Lord is with us, but have much anxiety about my family. And so that's the kind of the background, the setup for section 100, is that they're on a mission, but they're worried about their families. And I love, again, kind of this theme that we keep talking about, that the Lord not only says, I see you, but I see your family and I'm taking care of them

and they're okay. And I remember I had a big conflict with somewhere in several years ago, it was a breakup. I was dating this fellow and I remember after we broke up, just praying for comfort for myself, but praying for comfort for him. And I remember where I was standing, I'd be where you campus.

When I had the very distinct impression, the Lord saying, I'm aware of him and I'm watching over him as well. And so I think it's really comforting to see this revelation that not only does Lord care about us, but he cares about our family. In verse one, barely does say it to Lord and to you, my friends, Sidney and Joseph, your families are well. They are in my hands and I will do with them as seem with me good for in me. There is all power. And I just love that reassurance.

And then continues to say, okay, and now let's talk about your mission. I have many people in this place, the regions round about an effectual door shall be opened and the regions round about lift up your voices versus five speak the thoughts I shall put into your hearts. I love that theme in scripture, right? Speak the thoughts I will put into your hearts in all over the book of Mormon. The thoughts that are in your hearts speak those thoughts and you should not be confounded before men for it shall be giving you in the very end the doctrine. Covenants do and should be giving you in the very hour, you in the very moment, what you shall say, what you shall say,

kind of like a first Nephi, right, four, six, you know, it's led by the spirit not knowing beforehand, the things which I should do. Just move forward. And it's kind of like a ether one, 42, right, the brother of Jared. He gathers all the people. And I just imagine this conversation, the Lord says, go to this valley, which is northward, and there will I meet thee, I believe is the exact phrase. And I imagine the people asking the brother of Jared, okay,

so we're going to go here, then we're, we're going to go next. And he says, well, I don't, I don't know actually, I just know we need to go this far, and there the Lord's going to meet us, which is referred to back in 98. I can't remember if we mentioned it, but it's talking about, I will give you in verse 12, he will give unto the faithful line upon line, precept upon precept, I will try you and prove you here with it. If we do what the Lord asks us to do and we move forward, we get more. Well, I just feel like we have a lot of missionaries who listen to our podcast and I can see them really, really having a moment with section 100, right?

They worry about their families, they're worried about where they are, right? The Lord says, I have caused you to come to this place. I, John's daughter was supposed to serve in teity, but she's in Tucson right now. And I think the Lord would say, I wanted you in this place. I will speak the thoughts,

or speak the thoughts I put in your heart. So I just think this is a wonderful missionary section where even missionaries today can read this and get the same comfort that Joseph and Sidney got. Yeah, I think sometimes we want we want to have everything figured out that we're going to do a day or two beforehand and there's a little bit of a test of faith here. I'll tell you in the very moment what you need to say and do. And that idea is repeated as Sheryl and said

in other places in scripture two, but just be where you're supposed to be. And I will treasure up the word. Yeah, you do that, but then the Lord can draw out of you what he needs you to say in the moment. I don't think this is the Lord saying, don't prepare. Right.

Yeah, don't prepare anything. Yeah, he's saying saying treasure treasure up the words and then I I'll bring them out when you need them. I'll bring all things to your remembrance, right? Study it ahead of time, right? And kind of refers to that. Well, in verse nine where he says, Sydney will be a spokesman unto this people. And I love that the Lord knows us and our individual guests. So Sydney, you're going to be a spokesman. I will end you into this calling onto my servant Joseph. And I'll give unto him power to be mighty and testimony. I'll give unto thee power to be mighty and expounding all scriptures. That, you know, he shall be a revelator on to thee. So here,

you each have roles, your complimentary roles, your helping each other. I need both of you, right? There's a reason that we're sent out on full-time missions and companionships that you can help and build each other up. I like that because I think a companionship can be listening going, this person's nothing like me, right? Why are we companions? And the Lord would say, that's why. That's why. You have your different roles and together you're going to complement one another. I think that's great. You can almost see this with any companionship. Yeah. And I think there's this concept right? And that's how we build Zion. It's not because it's handed to us. And the Lord drops us in the middle of perfect people

and says, here's Zion, go for it. But the Lord says, you're going to build Zion. And verse 16, when he says, I will raise up unto myself a pure people that will serve me in righteousness, that can be harkens back in my mind, at least to a DNC 97, just before where we started, 97-21, where it says Zion is the pure in heart, or Moses 7, 18, you know, they dwelt together in righteousness. And then verse 17 reminds me of,

well, I'm going to read it, and all that call upon the name of the Lord and keep his commandment shall be saved. Makes me think of DNC 93, one that says, come to pass those that calleth on my name and several other things. And keep with my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am. And that part of building, building Zion is creating the environment that we can have a Zion like people live where the Lord can come and dwell or like Moses, right before that verse in Moses, they talked about what Zion is. It says the Lord came and dwelt with his people and they dwelt in righteousness. And we might walk into a situation right, this is the early Saints did in Jackson County.

They walked there and they said, this is Zion like these rough people and sometimes people said, oh, this is one of the great land. And do we ever do that? We go into a ward, we go into a mission companionship, we go into a calling, we go into a work situation. And we say, a family situation, you say, this is Zion, this is what you're giving me to work with. What? This is not what I wanted. But that's how we build Zion is by saying, okay, by being humble, which I think one of you referenced earlier, and saying, how, what can I do? Not, what is everybody else doing, but what can I do to build Zion?

And I think in DNC 9721, which I just referenced, this is Zion, the pure in heart, I think it's interesting because some of the definitions of Zion and this pure people, it says there were no poor among them, right? I believe that's Moses 7, 18, in the 1828 dictionary, the fourth definition of the word poor. Yes, I read the 1828 dictionary. When I'm trying to understand the scriptures better, the fourth definition of the word poor is quote, destitute of value, worth or importance. And I thought about that in the connection with people.

And is part of billing, Zying having no poor among us as in not treating anyone as if they were worthless or destitute of value, right, which ties in which I didn't think about to right now. Remember the worth of souls is great in the sight of God that to God, we are worth everything. Mr. Gordon that talks about worthiness is not worth. That regardless of what we're done, we are still worth everything to the Lord.

You know, I was thinking about section 100 and that Joseph is worried about his family and I thought, well, isn't every missionary worried about the family? But I can see Joseph being particularly worried because the threats against him are much greater than the threats against other missionaries. So I can see him thinking, oh, you know, I'm leaving my family unprotected. And the Lord saying, your families are well, it's not just, hey, your family's doing good to a missionary. It's, you know, they're, they're okay. They're okay. They're safe. Tell us again, how long this mission was that Joseph Sinyweron to Perry'sburg, New York. So,

this one is only from October 5th to November 4th. So just about a month was all, but it was, it was a good mission. They baptized 12 people after about a week or so and then two more on October 28th. And then they left and arrived home. And later on, one of the people in the branch said that they had 34 members by the end of the year. So I believe he was Sydney Rigden on this mission. So just the two of them. But were there other missions that he that we some week could call missions that he went on and like something we could call missions that he went on and like, prosoliting like he did on this one? He makes, he makes what three trips to Missouri, Sheryl and during his time and then the fourth

one where he lives there. Yeah, it's definitely not the norm for Joseph to be called, oh, no, go here and preach and go here and preach, um, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, one thing that I love about this is the Lord doesn't say, why are you worrying about this? Stop worrying about it. Get back to your mission, but he validates his feelings. And he says, you know, he just gives him a comforting answer that it's okay to care about

your families. So DNC 101, yeah, which I believe has 101 verses. So this is December 1833. And this is kind of a book ends what we started with. In DNC 98, we were talking about the persecutions of the Saints in Jackson County in July. By December 1833, there's been part two of the major events of persecution.

And the Saints have been driven from Jackson County. Tensions escalated. They had agreed to leave the county, but then thought government would intervene and intervene and save them. That did not happen. They start petitioning the governor and they want to try and stay. In fact, in August, Joseph, as we mentioned earlier, counseled the Missouri Saints to not sell one foot of land in Jackson County, stating that God would speedily deliver Zion. But tensions escalate. And at the end of November beginning, or to me, at the end of October, beginning of November, the saints are

forcibly driven from the county. There's bloodshed. This is the first time that saints are killed, or to me, one saint, and then two of the mob are killed. and they drive them. And Joseph Smith receives letters talking about this violence. I wanted to just touch on one thing kind of of the background. So the saints basically are, you know, living in their settlements and to kind of paint the picture, we often picture, oh, the saints are in Jackson County,

they're all close together. They're spread out across 12 miles. There's no cell phones, there's no, you know, communication. And so a lot of what happens is due to miscommunication between the mob and between the saints, which happens in any war, regardless of the communication styles, but also the saints aren't able to help each other the way they would like because they are scattered. There's no place where they can gather and all be together. So they kind of cluster. And so Edward Partridge is home. It's half mile west of independence.

A lot of times the Saints in there would gather there. And then the Whitmer settlement, et cetera, they would gather. The mob start coming around, they start ripping off roofs. They start beating some of the men. So the men would gather together, thinking the women and children are safe, but then the mob start attacking the homes where the women and children are. And so they realize we've got to just keep everybody

safe together. One of the humorous, not humorous stories from this time period is the saints here, something going on in independence, they hear word of it, and so some of the group that's at Partridge's home comes into town, they found a number of men in the act of stoning the store of Gilbert and Whitney. Stores broken, some of the goods are in the street. I think one account I didn't read recently reviewed it says there's like ribbons or cloth all over the street. And they all, although people attacking the store are flee, but one man named Richard McCarty, who quote, was taken and found to be well lined with whiskey. They take him to the magistrate and say, can we get a warrant for his arrest? They're refused to give them one,

but jumping ahead a few days later, Sydney Gilbert, Isaac Morley, John Coral, and William McClellan were taken for assault and battery. So essentially, they catch the man in the act of robbing the store and they can't get a warrant for his, him to be arrested, but he can get a warrant, what, him to be arrested. But he can get a warrant. What a, what a, the partridge phrases that well, he says, although they could not get a warrant for

him for breaking the store, yet he had obtained one for them for catching him at it. So just the irony of the judges of saying, I'm not going to give you a warrant. Oh, sure, you would like one because they caught you. Yes, I will grant you one. Oh, I hope Harry Truman, that one of the future judges in independence rolled over in his, I guess he wasn't alive yet, rolled over in the premortal world, saying that is wrong. That is just, oh, I cannot, that makes me mad. I'll just be quiet. No, no, no, I mean, we kind of chuckle

because it's so absurd, but imagine the frustration, right? If you're there and it's happening to you. And just, yeah, phenomenally. And so what happens a lot is a group of saints will maybe gather together to go protect someone and then the mob, someone from the mobs, like, oh, a group of Mormons are coming to attack us. So they gather people and then they, you know, go at each other.

When really, they're kind of seconding each other's movements a lot, but it does tragically lead to three people dying. Philo Dibble is also wounded pretty severely. He's got a great story. We won't go into it here, but he's healed and he's, you know, continues to live. These men that are on trial for catching Richard McCarty are in the courthouse when news comes and it's grossly exaggerated. Oh, 20 people have been killed. They've killed Moses Wilson's son. And so the people around the courthouse then think we're going to kill these men right here. We have them, but to protect them, the officials that they're put them in the jail to kind of save them. In the middle of the night, they're taken out

to go meet with the other saints to have a little council and they say, what should we do? And they agree. They say, you know, things have gone too far. We're going to agree to leave the county. We'll leave Jackson County. The northern boundary of Jackson County is the Missouri River.

Let's go north across the river into Clay County. So the men that were in the jail, you know, returned back to the jail with the sheriff, but some mob members are waiting for them there and shoot at them. I, two of them run away. I think it's Morley and Morley and Coral run away as they're being shot at. Gilbert actually stands as ground, Sydney Gilbert, which is very impressive. Two guns are fired at them. Neither of them actually hit them. One flashes in the pan and then he's knocked down, but he's not actually injured. And so he gets back into the jail. And then early the next morning, you know, it's kind of like, okay,

we brought you back to jail. Okay, now we're in a, we're release you. And so there's, there's just all this confusion and people are scared and they start, once they decide to leave, then there's even confusion among that. And there's one party of women and children that start fleeing the county on their own, the men are off making arrangements and they just say, it's not safe, we can't even stay here any longer.

And they just go and they wander for a few days and there's an account of, you know, the ground being so rough, that the children's feet are tender and then they're bleeding from the stubble on the ground. In fact, partridge, when they're camped on the Southern edge of the Missouri River, waiting to go across the Missouri River,

he says there was a cry of, you know, husbands looking for their wives and wives looking for their husbands or children needing to be reunited with their families. So in addition to fleeing your home, you're also is my wondering is my family okay? Where is the rest of my family? Or I'm okay, my immediate family is fine, but are my neighbors okay? She was, you know, maybe she was pregnant. She's about to give birth. Is she okay? What's what's going on with everybody that I care about? So just a lot of a lot of really, really hard and really poignant things going on.

And that's the beginning of November, 1833. I want everybody who is listening, make sure they understand that this isn't being driven from Missouri. Sometimes, I remember when I was younger, I thought, oh, this is when we were driven from Missouri. That's not going to happen until the winter of 1838 and the winter of 1839. This is the winter of 1833 and 34 when we're not driven from the state but from the county. I think maybe we need to clarify for some who are going, wait, I thought, is this where

Emma carries the pages and things like that? No, no, that's not going to happen for another six years. Yeah. Good clarification. Thanks for mentioning that. One last thing on the context, I think it's helpful to remember the saints couldn't see the end from the beginning, right? They didn't know it was coming.

And so, Partridge is writing letters. Other church members are writing letters to Joseph Smith in Courantland. Hey, this is what's going on. This is what's happening. Partridge says we are in hopes that we shall be able to return to our houses and lands before a great while. But how this does to be accomplished is pulling the dark to us as yet. And Joseph Smith has counseled them to keep their lands in Missouri. So Partridge has this tension of we just agreed to leave, but I think it's

going to save lives, you know, on December 5, 1833, Joseph Smith writes a letter to Partridge. Joseph himself is trying to understand the Lord's will. He's trying to understand why is this happening? Right, Joseph is a prophet. He's no less than a prophet, but he's no more than a man. He's not omniscient. He doesn't know why everything's happening. And so on December 5th, he writes to Edward Partridge,

telling him that if initial reports that church members had surrendered and were evacuating were incorrect, then he says, maintain the ground as long as there is a man left, since it's the place appointed of the Lord for your inheritance. But you can go to Clay County, if you're already on your way to Clay County, it can be a temporary refuge. It will be no harm to go there. And then later in December, Joseph Smith receives this revelation that I feel it gives him some clarity and gives the same clarity of why is this happening? Not all questions are answered, but why is this happening? And let's jump into this with one final thing. Ira Ames is a church member living in

Curtland and he goes to Joseph Smith's house in Curtland with Martin Harris early one December morning and finds Joseph and Oliver Caudrey at breakfast. And apparently, according to Ames, Caudrey greeted the two by saying, good morning, brethren, we have just received news from heaven. And so you get this sense of, yep, this is a revelation. Wow. We just received news from heaven. That's fantastic. I know. I love that. I read that in the making sense,. It's kind of it's kind of like the newscaster this just in

We just got this from heaven pretty matter fact So yeah, let's let's jump into this oh And as we're doing it, I think one thing also to remember not only is Joseph Smith concerned But people's family members I'd where partridge's brother writes him a letter in October I've heard crazy reports. Let me know if you're okay. I want to know what's happening. So there's a lot of people that are concerned. So in DNC 101, the Lord helps Joseph Smith and the Saints and others understand why this is happening. And it says, verse one, barely, I say unto you concerning your brethren who have been afflicted and persecuted

and cast out from the land of their inheritance, I the Lord have suffered the affliction to come upon them wherewith they have been afflicted in consequence of their transgressions. So one, okay, they haven't lived up to the covenants to the instructions that they've been given. And I say that with, which we'll come back and talk about that.

Not to criticize because I'm certainly not one to point fingers. This is verse three, yeah, I will own them and they shall be mine in that day when I shall come to make up my jewels. Verse four, therefore, they must needs be chastened and tried, even as Abraham, who was commanded to offer up his only son for all those who will not endure chastening, but Denime cannot be sanctified. And verse 6, which Elder Christopherson quotes, and is come to Zion talk from a few years ago, he says, behold, I say unto you, there were giants and contentions and enviants and strife and lustful and covetous desires among them. Therefore, by these things, they polluted their inheritances. So I think we've got a few things going on. We have the Lord saying, you've got some transgressions.

So that's a consequence. And I think like more broadly, afflictions come because of our transgressions. Sometimes because of other people's transgressions. And sometimes because we need to be tested and tried like Abraham, sometimes because we just live in a fallen world. But Elder Christopherson talked about this. And I love the way he put it.

He compared their society with ours. And he says, rather than judge these early saints too harshly, however, we should look to ourselves to see if we are doing any better. Zion is Zion because of the character, attributes, and faithfulness of her citizens. Much of the work to be done in establishing Zion consists in our individual efforts

to become the pure and heart. Says Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom. Otherwise, I cannot receive her unto myself. And then he juxtaposes this verse with our day. Elder Christopherson says, the Savior was critical of some of the early saints, not all, but at least some of the early saints

for their lustful desires. These were people who lived in a non-television, non-film, non-internet, non-ipod world. In a world now awash in sexualized images and music, are we free from lustful desires and their attendant evils? Far from pushing the limits of modest stress or indulging in the vicarious immorality of pornography,

we are to hunger and thirst after righteousness. To come design, it is not enough for you or me to be somewhat less wicked than others. We are to become not only good, but holy men and women. And then he says, recalling Elder Neely Maxwell's phrase, let us once and for all establish our residents in Zion and give up the summer cottage in Babylon. So what's the reference of that Elder Christ Jefferson talk again? Yes.

So it is from come to Zion. It's October 2008. Elder Christ, he often talks about Zion. That's one of his themes that I love hearing. That's great stuff. I mean, to think about their world and what they had. And then you see that list of things in Versailles and then think about our world. Holy cow. Jarring's contentions, ending strife's lustful and covetous desires. I think he just described our culture. Yeah, 2021. Yeah, 2021. And this thing, and notice what the Lord calls them, they'll pollute your life, right? Those things will pollute your life. You'll pollute the

blessings that I have for you. Yeah, so I like how you said this, Sherylann, we can't point fingers at these saints. We don't know, you know, we can't judge anyone, but this does, I think if they were to see our day, they'd say, ooh, I think section 101 is for you, actually. Probably, and they probably would. It's like we had nothing on you. actually probably would. It's a way of nothing on you. Yeah. You know, we say that like artedly, we're just joking about there, but but in truth, right? I love that the sections and the doctrine and covenants and all the scriptures that we can all relate to them in different ways, right? Sometimes we say, Oh, well, my ancestors were part of this, this pioneer group where they were in Navu, maybe were biologically or you know sealed to these family members.

But then some people in the world today are refugees and they can relate to the saints in a much different way than I can relate to them because they can say, I know what it's like to be a refugee like president Ucdorf. Some people can say, hey, I'm not a refugee, but I've been subjected to physical violence. I've had someone break into my home. I know what it's like. And so I think all of these ways that we, you know, relate to the early saints are important and they're all equally valid. Some people are persecuted for their religious beliefs. And yet in many ways, the Lord has messages in this for each of us, including jumping into verse eight and nine. Yeah, so in verse 8, right? I think in many ways most are all of us can relate to this. In the day of their peace, they esteemed lightly my counsel, but in the day of their trouble of necessity, they feel after me. How many of us, when things are going well, we're comfortable? And I even love that phrasing there. They feel after me. It's not just they start

to listen to me or they read my words. That's part of feeling after him, but it's a soul deep hunger, a spiritual yearning. Kind of like later on, I believe it's in this section, talks about the soul and caring for the life of the soul, but the soul senses there's something that we need here. I am. I automatically thought of Helum in 12 when when Mormon gets so frustrated with human beings, and he almost throws down his pen, he stops the entire story, and he says, oh, you're so foolish.

This is human 12 for how foolish, foolish, how vain, how evil, devilish, how quick to do a nicotine, how slow to do good are the children of men. He says, accept the Lord visits the people with death, terror, and famine, and with all manner pestilence, they will not remember him. He says, why is it in the very moment that God blesses you? He does all these things. You harden your hearts and forget the Lord your God. And Trump will under their feet. He's saying, under our feet, the holy one. This is because of prosperity. It's almost the similar thing as I like the Lord's tone here. He says, I love you. You have a lot

of problems, but I love you. And Sheryl and I think there's going to be some listeners who say, oh, that's why all these bad things are happening to me because I need to be chastened. We're not saying that any trial that someone goes through is because the Lord is trying to, you know, that there's something wrong, right? I think that's an important thing because, you know, something's happened, like you said, because we live in a fallen world or because of other people's choices. But there can be difficulties that come. I wonder if the Lord is saying, you did a pretty impressive job of creating your own difficulties, right? I just kind of allowed you, I was kind of hands off and you, you did a lot of this to yourselves with your difficulties, you know, with the, with your choices.

On the official manual, right at the top of 154, it says, some of our afflictions in life are caused by our own choices. Others are caused by the choices of others. And sometimes, no one is to blame. Bad things just happen, regardless of the cause, adversity can help fulfill divine purposes. And so, yeah, I'm glad you're bringing that up again,

because when we honestly look, we can see, yeah, I probably cause a lot of my own problems, but we're not saying that's true in every case, right? And I love the Lord's tone here is, I love you. I haven't forgotten you. And yes, this is going to hurt a little bit. Yeah, I love verse nine. My bowels are filled with compassion towards them. So it's not like I'm so tired of you, people.

It's, you know, you're growing through all this, but I'm filled with compassion. Yeah, and I love the, the concept of jumping back up to verse five briefly, all those who will not under chasing me, but deny me cannot be sanctified. It made me kind of step back and ask myself, okay, what does it mean to endure chasing me? It's kind of grit your teeth and like, okay, I'll get through this. Or is it, does it mean without denying Christ? Does it mean accepting Christ? Does it mean following Him, taking His name upon me? Like, what does it mean to endure chastity? Kind of like, I feel like there's a president hiring talk about enduring well. I'm not putting my finger on it right now, but it's not just enduring to the end, but enduring well.

And it's, you know, building, building Zion as we go. There's that verse right in section 121, if thou endure it well. Right, right. Not just endure it, but let it, it's in 123, let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power. You know, I got to be cheerful too. Oh, you are. Aren't you the cheerful co-host, right? Wasn't that the adjective from today?

Yeah, the cheerful co-host. I know Hank was just reminding me of that verse when he said that. Yeah, please be cheerful. I do be cheerful. He's a famous honoree. It's not very fun. Hey, when I was younger, when I was a teenager, I used to think my mom is a very cheerful person. And I just thought, Oh, well, when you become a parent, they just like from heaven, it's

just bestowed upon you. You don't have to try to be cheerful. And you know, as you get older, you realize, Oh, she actually puts effort into being cheerful. I mean, I think she has a naturally cheery disposition, but he also makes a lot of effort to remain cheerful. Right. I think one of the things I was thinking about with DNC 101 is verse seven. but he also makes a lot of effort to remain tearful. Right. I think one of the things I was thinking about with DNC 101 is verse seven.

When it says they were slow to harken into the voice of the Lord their God. And it made me ask myself, okay, am I slow? And what is slow? You know, am I judging these people as slow when perhaps I'm slow? And just kind of, you know, maybe question myself. A few cross references for DNC 101 8.

So verse 8 when it talks about they feel after me, it made me think of I started looking at a few other verses. Maybe think of Hosea 515 where it says they seek my face and their affliction, they will seek me early or acts 1727 that they should seek the Lord. If happily, they might feel after him and find him though he'd be not far from every one of us. And then Alma 326 I think this is the the cross-reference below. Their afflictions had truly humbled them and they were in a preparation to hear the word. And so you know are we willing to hear are we open to and this maybe it doesn't apply right here but I was thinking about this when we were talking about something a few minutes earlier of being willing to be chasin. I have a little niece that's 10 and she

was joining the deciding which club soccer team to join and she picked the one with the coach who was going to be harder on her. She said, yeah, I'm going to go with him because I knew he's going to push me and therefore I'll get better and I want to get better. And I just love that example. Here's this little 10 year old and she says, I want to get better and it's just love that example. Here's this little 10 year old, and she says, I want to get better. And it's going to be harder, but I'm going to get better. I know that's what the Lord asked. That's all he asked. I think in one of your earlier ones,

you're talking with Steve Harbor about repenting relentlessly. We just have to keep trying. We just have to keep trying. And when I did my student teaching, eighth grade US history several years ago, I taught here in Utah, and there was one class I had some difficulty with. It was the end of the day, it was the last class. I finally just told my students I was like,

look, we've got to change something. This is not working. I care about you. There's something I like about every single one of you. Immediately, the kid who was by far the worst in the entire class, his hands shut up and he said, Miss Farms, what do you like about me? I could honestly say, I like that you're trying because I could tell he'd be working on something to start to goof off or get distracted.

He'd look up, he'd catch my eye. And it wasn't that sense of, oh, I got caught, but it was like, oh, you know what, you see me and you know I can do better. I'm gonna try a little bit harder to focus. And I just, I love that. And I've thought about that ever since. I like that you're trying that.

The Lord says that to us. I like that you're trying that. The Lord says that to us. I like that you're trying. It's okay, you messed up, but you're trying. One thing that I'll mention that I've heard from Alex, Alex Baugh, is that they had not started the temple. The Lord had commanded them to start the temple and they still hadn't. Joseph's going to start the temple in Kirtland eventually, but that's an important thing

the Lord wanted done and he said they esteemed lightly my counsel. Yeah, I think in previous podcast Hank we've talked about that. The Lord just really is anxious to give them the blessings of the temple. It makes me think of in the Book of Mormon, as at Limhai where Ammon comes and says, Hey, we're here. We have a message of deliverance, your brethren and Jerusalem, we're still alive. We're here to help you.

And Limhai, what does he say to those people? Okay, let's come to the temple. Meet at the temple tomorrow. You're going to find out how to be delivered. It's still going to be hard. I trust the remaining, the ineffectual struggle to be made, but meet at the temple and we'll learn how to be delivered.

So we have the parable of a noble man that has a spot of land. He says to a servant, okay, I want you to go here and plant 12 olive trees, set watchman, build a tower, and then put a watchman on the tower so that my olive trees are safe. And then they start building the foundation and they start to say among themselves, verse 47, what need have my Lord of this tower? They consulted for a long time saying among themselves, what need have my Lord of this tower? Seeing this is a time of peace, might not this money be given to the exchangeers? There is no need of these things. And then, verse 50, while they were at variance one with another, they became very slothful. Isn't that us? We start to bigger about small things and we get slothful in what we're supposed to do. That

particular commandment or bigger commandments It says and they harken not into the commandments of their Lord. Of course, we know what happens the enemy comes by night breaks down the hedge servants of the noblemen arise. They're afraid it in verse 50 They flee the enemy destroys their works and breaks down the olive trees and The noblemen says to his vineyard, what is the cause of this great evil? He not to have done even as I commanded you, and after you had planted the vineyard and built the head round about and set watchmen upon the walls thereof, built the tower also, and set a watchman upon the tower and watched for my vineyard, and not have fallen asleep, lest the enemy should come upon you.

Behold the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy when he was yet a far off, and then you could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer. A few sections later, the Lord identifies Joseph Smith as the servant that he speaks to, and then calls upon him to do exactly what verse 55 says, go and gather together the residue of my servants, take all the strength of my house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age, also among all my servants, who are the strength of my house, save those only who I've appointed to Terry. And then they're going to go to the vineyard and redeem the vineyard.

The Lord says, for it is mine, I have bought it with money. That is Zion's camp, right? Mm-hmm. Yes. At least that's my interpretation. I believe that's the general interpretation that, yeah, they're speaking of Zion's camp or what they call it, the the time the camp of Israel. I often find things pretty funny and I think this would be interesting to read this being

someone who is involved going, oh yeah, I did do that. I did. I did say that. The Lord, the Lord's kind of, let me tell you a story. There once was these people. Does this sound familiar at all? And they said, wow, we don't need to do that, right? And I think there was this one moment

in the New Testament where it says, and the Pharisees saw that he spake of them. They perceive that he spake about them. It's like, oh, now you're getting it. He's like, wait, this sounds familiar. Is he talking about, hey, he's talking about this. I always say to my students, there's Bobby, the Pharisee over there. I think he's talking about us. Yeah, we know Bobby. We know. There's got to be this moment where the saints are reading this letter going, uh-oh, I, that was me, right? In fact, there's a name for that. There's, I heard Victor Ludlow talk about entrapment parables. Yeah, an entrapment parable. Where, yeah, it's like Isaiah's,

you know, what more could I have done for my opinion? I don't know, I can't think of a thing. And then it's like, okay, you guys are the ones. And what's the other one? Nathan comes into David, right? The man that had... Nathan and David, the Savior uses in Trappin' Parables. And I like in verse 52, that the Lord is using a parable here

because it's kind of a, I'm not gonna just go right at you. I'm just gonna kind of a, I'm not going to just go right at you. I'm just going to kind of tell this story over here and let you see it from my perspective. Because in verse 52, why? Why? I think the Lord would say that to us too, you know, when we decide, oh, your way, I'm not going to go your way. He'd say, let me tell you a story about a guy who didn't listen to his boss and the boss said why Why I want to the best I like the 47 48

When they're trying to use their own reasoning. Well, I don't really see why he needs this, you know I don't this is a time of peace. We don't need a tower and And not seeing that there's a greater purpose that they don't know about that the nobleman has. It would be kind of like people saying, why do we need to come follow me? We go to church every Sunday, people can just get enough at church. Why do we need to do ministering? Like home teaching, visiting teaching, that's good enough for us. Let's just do that. Right? And then looking back post pandemic, or you know, as we're getting towards the

end and things are starting to open back up and become more normal, right? I'm so grateful that the prophets and apostles listened to that revelation didn't say, that's a great idea. Let's do that in five or ten years, but we're prepared. But yeah, I definitely see myself in this parable. And yeah, I don't think you think. Think about, think about what is the gospel? What is the restored gospel as we understand it, now take away the temple, take away everything we learned in the temple. And you can see why the Lord so anxious to give them that, because it's hard for me to imagine

what is the restored gospel without the temple? And what happens there and the promise is there. And isn't that the meaning of the tower eventually? That's what you've built a temple. The Lord doesn't explicitly interpret it, but that's the the general understanding and makes sense that it's the temple that he says, you need we need that temple, which I think ties back into what we were talking about the very beginning of this this episode, 98 16, when he says, renounce war and proclaim peace and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, the hearts

of the fathers to the children, that it comes back to proclaim peace and peace is found as we seal families and make covenants in the temple. So yeah, thank you, both of you, for bringing a tiny back to the temple, which it should be. Um, Sherylyn, it seems to me that in 57, 58, 59, the Lord gives them a little bit of foreshadowing about Zion's camp not being successful in what they thought they were supposed to do, because he says, I'm going to enter the land with a resident, he says, of my known house, and the servant says, Well, when?

And the Lord says, When I will, now go and do what I what I've asked you to do. So when they get to Missouri, when Zion can't, Zion's can't get to Missouri, I hate to throw in a spoiler. They actually don't redeem Zion. The Lord, the Lord stops them and says, now, this is as far as I wanted you to come. And it seems that there's a little bit of a foreshadowing there in 56 through 60. Oh, maybe so. I hadn't thought about it in that sense. Definitely in verse 60, yeah, he doesn't promise any specific timetable because there is. Like you point out, the people going with the camp of Israel, science camp, they're ready

to fight. They're prepared. And they're saying, we're going here. We're going to, we're going to get it back. The governor's going to help us. And we're going to stay here for a year to help the saints, you know, Bill Jackson County back up, which yeah, doesn't happen. Yeah. He said, he just throws out verse 62. After many days, all things were fulfilled, right? Doesn't make a promise there. I think that's important

to point out. That's a fun parable. Yeah. and I love that you hit on timing, right? The Lord's timing is often different from our timing. It makes me think of Elder Holland's quote, right? Some blessings come soon, some come late, and some don't come till heaven. But for those who keep the gospel of Jesus Christ, they come that the Lord, the Lord's ways of doing things can be different than ours. But it doesn't mean that he's not going to fulfill all of the promises. It might not be in the way we think. It might not be when we think, but it will be fulfilled. Yeah, and I know many of them are disappointed in how Zion's camp turns out, but the Lord has a different purpose for it. I'm sure we'll talk about that later.

For those who might be, wait, what's Zion's camp? What's the idea of redeeming Zion? When we think of redeem, we think of the Savior, the Redeemer, but in this case, redeeming Zion meant to go take it back, right? And that's what they expected to do as Zion's camp. Go fight and take it back. And we're going to escort the people back onto their lands. Thank you for clarifying that because we definitely use it differently in our day. I mean, we talk about Zion differently. It's not a place, but it's more of the condition of our hearts, a stake of Zion.

I'm going to go redeem my backyard. Yeah. Sheryl and section 101 is pretty longer. Are there any other verses you'd like to highlight? Yeah, there were a few others that kind of jumped out to me in verses 67 to 68. I know I keep tying it back to Partridge, but I've said he's life the most. that kind of jumped out to me in verses 67 to 68. I know I keep tying it back to Partridge, but I've said he his life the most, but he says, the Lord says in verse 67, therefore, a commandment, I give unto all the churches to continue to gather specifically to the places

he's appointed, and then 68, nevertheless, as I have said unto you in a former commandment, let not your gathering be in haste nor by flight, but let all things be prepared before you." And that was one of the struggles with Zion. A lot of the saints were so eager to just go to Zion that starting from when the saints first moved there in July of 1831, some saints came when they really shouldn't have been coming.

And so, so much so that a year later, in summer, June 1832, Partridge writes a letter to the saints and says, okay, just a reminder, like, this is how we're supposed to come design. You're supposed to get a recommend from your bishop. You're only supposed to come up if you're, you know, kind of invited and you're, you're welcome to come. We can't support everybody just pouring in, especially without resources. And so I see in this a little bit of a reminder.

And I can see partridge going, yes, thank you for reminding them. That was supposed to be, do not do what you're not supposed to do. Yeah, the Lord was specific. Don't go unless you've been called to go, but some just went. They decided they wanted to go, so they just went. And it really, it made things hard for Bishop Partridge. It made things hard to establish a Zion, right? Because he can't buy the land he needs if he's feeding people who can't feed themselves.

Yeah, we spending all that time. But what's he gonna do, right? What's he gonna do when they show up? Just, well, I can't feed you. No, he's gonna, that would be so frustrating. I can, to be Bishop Partridge saying, and I like that you said that. He's like, yes.

I'm imagining two years ago. That's what I told you to do. Verse 78, where it says, them, every man may act according to the moral agency, which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment. Right? They are consecrating property and sharing and helping each other, but you're still responsible for your own actions. You're responsible for your own stewardship. And that made me think of Elder Christopherson's talk

from October 2014, free to act for them, free forever to act for themselves when he quotes from Henry V and talking about the king coming about the camp and their debating. Whose fault is it if the king goes to war and it's not a just war? And quoting and saying, every subject's duty is the kings, but every subject's soul is his own that we're each responsible for our own soul, which kind of ties back into verses 37 and 38,

which says, care for the soul and for the life of the soul, which we could go off a long time about that. What does it mean to care for your soul, for the life of your soul? And then verse 38, what does it mean in patience, you may possess your souls, and you shall have eternal life. You know, how does patience tie into possessing your souls? But I think the last, they continue to impretune for redress, and verses 85 to 95, they turn to judges and governors and presidents,

and verse 76 as well, They try and get redress. They don't get a lot, but they continue to try. I just can't imagine the frustration of this. As I've taken people back to these places and described these stories and people get so, even today, as you hear the story, you just get so frustrated with the legal system out in Missouri that, you know, that someone can be driven off of their own property and sent away and never paid for that property, never haven't recovered. It's just you're driven out of it. And if you set foot back in the county, we're going to hurt you, perhaps kill you. And this is the United States of America.

It's so frustrating. And they do get to the president, right? Eventually, they get to Martin Van Buren. And yeah, the famous year causes just, but I can do nothing for you. I were to take up for you. I would lose the vote of Missouri, that famous story.

I love verses 32 through 36. There's, you know, you have questions about dinosaurs. Do you have questions about the age of the earth? Do you have questions about the age of the earth? Do you have questions about how the earth was made? And the Lord has all of these answers, but he is not often a God of explanations. And so I love these these verses and I think you know that a

pivotal experience in my life was was going to to speak to the young men and women at Columbine High School after that horrific school shooting and tossing and turning in bed and what in the world do I say into the scriptures really have the answers or don't they and I put together this talk and and this was scripture five of five scriptures that will help you get through almost anything and I put almost because I thought the Savior gets us through everything without an almost, but these scriptures help. And this, this was the last one, verse 32, I say into you, in that day, when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things. And what do I always love to say when I see

the word all, Hank? That's a high percentage word. Is that a high percentage? I'm going to tell you everything, right? And look, think of what you can stick under this heading, things which have passed. It's archaeology, that's anthropology, that's astronomy, history, things which have passed, hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth by which it was made and the purpose and the end thereof. I want to Steven Covey's books. He talks about Albert Einstein being asked, if you could ask God anything, what would you ask him?

And Albert Einstein said, well, I ask him how he made the universe. And then he changed his mind and said, no, wait, I would ask him why he created the universe, because then I would know the meaning of my life. And recently, I found that Stephen Hawking in our day said that, you know, science may one day be able to tell us how the universe was created, but it won't be able to tell us why does the universe bother to exist? And we have beautiful answers here in the gospel. Anyway, things of the earth, by which it was made, the here in the Gospel. Anyway, things of the earth by which it was made,

the purpose in the end thereof, things most precious, things that are above, things that are beneath, things that are in the earth and upon the earth and in heaven and verse 36 really stuck out to me in that circumstance, wherefore fear not even unto death, for in this world your joy is not full, but in me your joy is full. And so at those verses for anyone that has questions of evolution, dinosaurs, anthropology,

whatever, the Lord saying, I will tell you everything. Hidden things which nobody knows right now, I will tell you everything. And it's kind of a move forward in faith. It's a bite in my covenant. It's a continuing God type of a little section right there that I've always loved. Yeah, that is really good. I remember calling you when I got asked to speak at the youth conference for those students who went to Marjorie Stoneman Douglas.

And I said, you've done this. Tell me what to do. And you said, you've done this. Tell me what to do. And you said, you won't sleep very well, right? You won't sleep very well in this. Yeah, it was before it. Well, it was pivotal because it taught me that the scriptures have the answers or don't they? And they do, that they don't, we don't know why.

And so instead I focused on, but what do we know for sure? And that was one of those. Here's some things that we do know from a source where the answers don't change from the words of the Lord. So I always love those verses. Thanks for letting me talk about those for a minute. I really like those.

Your questions will get answered. Be patient. They will get answered. Be patient. They will get it. So abide in my covenant, you know, continuing God. Sheryl and I bet as a history and there's plenty of questions you would like answered. Definitely. Definitely. That's one thing I thought about when I read over that verse.

I'm going to find out what happened there and there and there. Yeah. And you know, some intellectual, but a lot, you know, personal. Yeah, why did this or what was going on? What was that all about? Yeah, why did that happen? But also driven out of Missouri. He's like, I was pretty clear about that one.

Yeah. Any any others before we wrap up here? I think one of the things kind of going off what you said, I really liked what you just talked about, John. So thank you for that. You know, oftentimes we can hear stories of the Lord helping other people. Does God love me if this terrible thing happens? But really, as much as we hear those stories and as much as they can help,

it doesn't mean anything to us unless we have our own testimony and unless we feel that assurance and that witness from the spirit that God is still mindful of you, even though this terrible thing happened, or terrible things, multiple things happened, and that it's when we come to know for ourselves, that I think even though we can share comforting things with each other and share scriptures, and that's what we should do, that in the end we have to receive that witness for ourselves, and that's what we should do. That in the end, we have to receive that witness for ourselves, and that's when we can find peace with that, that's when we can make peace

with the terrible things happening in the Word, with the what did all the Rennlin call it, infuriating unfairness. You're eating unfairness. There's a piece towards the end of the section I find interesting where the Lord says, do you remember the story I told in the Bible about the woman who went to the king

and just kept praying and asking and asking and asking? And finally, he's like, I will answer your prayer just to get rid of you. Right? He said, that's what I want you to do. I want you to importune the judges. I want you to importune the governor. I want you to importune the president.

And then I found something so fascinating about verse 92. He says, if none of this has any fruit, then the Lord's hot displeasure and fierce anger will come. And then verse 92, pray, therefore, that their ears may be opened unto your cries, that I may be merciful unto them, that these things may not come upon them. That's an interesting,

that's an interesting version of pray for your enemies because you don't want the Lord's judgment to come upon them. So pray that they hear you. That's an interesting moment where it's almost with Lord is saying pray for them because the, the, the, what is it? The judgments are coming and they won't like them. Yeah, and I, I don't think I'm there.

I might have been an, oh, no, no, let them have it, Lord. Let them really, I want to see that hot, displeasure thing. You really got them have it. Yeah, he's saying work your hardest and hope that they listen because if they don't Hot displeasure will come Joseph Smith said come to God and weary him until he blesses you It's thought that the judge says less she weary me by her continual coming. Joseph said yeah Where are the Lord and telly blesses you keep asking? I think my children have read this parable

Keep asking until I think my children have read this parable. Keep asking until they give in. Right? Come to God. What did you say there, John? Come to God and weary him. And weary him until he blesses you from the words of Joseph Smith, page 15. Almost Dr. Cheryl Lennfarns. Dr. Ineyear, it's obvious that you have studied these these this history in depth, especially Edward and Lydia Partridge in their family. And you obviously have a great love for these people. So I think our listeners would love to know in all of your research, what do you love about the restoration? How do you feel about Joseph Smith and his contemporaries?

That's a great question. I think what stands out to me most is how human that early saints were, because in understanding how human they were, it helps me understand how much they relied on the savior. That we oftentimes we put them on a pedestal as it were, Elder Maxwell says, and we dry all their tears off of them and we say, here's these saints that were perfect. And they weren't perfect. And they didn't wake up every morning singing, come, come, you saints when they crossed the plane.

Sometimes they woke up grumpy. Sometimes they were the plane. Sometimes they woke up grumpy. Sometimes they were really annoyed. There's a great story about Nuulke Whitney when he's crossing the planes and the night guard wakes up, they wake up a gentleman and they're like, hey, we hear a mule and it's choking and we can't find it. Can you help us find it? And they're like, looking for this choking mule. And finally, they realize, oh, it's actually Bishop Nuulke Whitney snoring. He sounds like a choking mule. And you know, we laugh. Anything. But like, what is real life for the saints? You know, I just pictured this, this, this, this sister pulling in on their covered wagon and looking over and she's like, honey,

you parked by Newell K. Whitney, you know, or NK Whitney is the, it was called, why did you park by the Whitney's? He's gonna snore on like, I really need sleep. I've been up the past two nights with the baby. I need to sleep. And the husband's like, I can't move now. They already saw that we pulled in. We can't like go park somewhere else with our wagon. You know, that this is real life. These saints, you know, are having to deal with each other. It's like being on a road trip for months at a time. You're in close quarters with these people. And yet, what I love is like a lice of partridge says, she says, there's so many times in my life, I felt like there was no other hope. But then she says, there is sure to come a ray of light that always there is light.

Like Edward Partridge, her father said that there's light bursting forth with starting with the reformers and then continuing exponentially with the restoration, that it's because these people weren't perfect, but they had faith. That's what I take comfort from. And specifically Joseph Smith led them, that Joseph Smith, as someone said, of Gordon B. Hinkley, he was no more than a man, but he was no less than a prophet. And that seeing the Lord work with Joseph and work with these saints and recognizing that they're not perfect, it gives me hope that the Lord can work with me, that maybe as imperfect and flawed as I am, the Lord can somehow use me in some way to help build this kingdom, to help build this.

It will be hard, right? We'll be chasing, we'll be chasing the Lord says, like Abraham, and there's a lot of things that we won't understand, but that's the point of walking by faith is that we trust in the Lord and that we move forward, even if we can't see the end from the beginning, even if like ether, or excuse me, like the brother of Jared,

when the Lord says, there will I meet thee that we do the steps that we can and then he meets us there. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. John, we've been very blessed today. Yeah, every time we go through one of these and I think I've read it and and I'm seeing things in new ways. So thank you so much, Sheryl and for your time, your devotion to this topic and for sharing these some of your favorites things with us today. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I feel very blessed and uplifted and edified by our discussion. So thank you and I've enjoyed your previous podcast as well. So thank you for what you're both doing to share and increase the light in the world.

I just get to listen mostly. I love it. Yeah, me too. I just have been so blessed today. Like John said, these sections will mean will just be different for me from now on because of all you've shared. We want to thank, of course, Sheryl and Farns. We want to thank all of you for listening and staying with us. We're grateful for your support. We could not do this without listeners, right, John? If nobody listened, we would, we'd close up shop. So thank you. And thank you for sharing with your friends and family. We, of course, want to thank our executive producers, the wonderful Steve and Shannon Sorenson. We have a production crew that does a ton of work.

We want to mention them, Lisa Spice, David Perry, Jamie Nielsen, Will Stoughton, Maria Hilton and Kyle Nelson. Thank you to you. We love you all. And we hope to see you next time on the next episode of Follow Him.