Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Exodus 24, 31-34 -- Part 2 : Dr. John Hilton III

Episode Date: April 24, 2022

Dr. Hilton returns and discusses the importance of serving God, how to consider difficult portions of the scriptures, and how Moses’s life testifies of Jesus Christ.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/old-testament/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producers/SponsorsDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: MarketingLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Rough Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Transcripts/Language Team/French TranscriptsAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. We've been focusing on the Lord and his conversation with Moses. Let's go back to Aaron and the people. I think there's some kind of really interesting things that come up. So in chapter 32, verses 1 and 2, we've read verse 1, so Aaron said to the people, take off the gold rings that are on the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me. So all the people took off the gold rings that are on the ears of your wives, your sons and your daughters, and bring them to me. So all the people took off the gold rings

from their ears and brought them to Aaron. And notice verse four, he, Aaron, took the gold from them, formed it in a mold and cast an image of a calf. And they said, these are your gods. So stay on that, that's the storyline of what happens. But then when we come to Moses, as he's talking to Aaron about it verse 21 Moses says Aaron what is going on? What happened?

Verse 22 Aaron said do not let the anger of my Lord Bernhardt you know the people They are bent on evil. They said to me Make us gods who shall come before us for as this man Moses we don't know what happened to him verse 24 So I said to them whoever is going to take it off So they gave it to me. I threw it in the fire and out came the calf And that phrase out came the Catholic mat like I didn't do anything was just like boom poof it appeared And I love Aaron. I'm not trying to be too critical on him because boy I do this all the time But it doesn't that highlighted human tendency to shift

Responsibility well, you know the people they're they're pretty naughty and they did this and well, just kind of this happened. The translation you're reading is out of says out came the calf. Yeah, out came this calf. That's the new Revive Standard version. What does the King James say? It says there came out this calf. I have.

Yeah. Same kind of idea, right? Boom. I have. Yeah. Same kind of idea. Like boom, poof. What's interesting, we have what really happened. And then we have Aaron's version of what happened. This happens to me as a father all the time. I can see in your eyes, I can think of some stories when the twins

have said, oh, how came the refrigerator fell on the ground? Who knows? So all of a sudden I hear one of my children start crying, I walk in, what happened? Nothing, I did nothing. It just started crying all by itself. And that is a human tendency. You're right.

We all do this in some way. We come up with a different version of events that kind of shifts blame off of us. It's this people, right? These people, they made me do this. A common phrase we use all the time today, she makes me mad. Well, really, I mean, like, I'm shifting the responsibility. One time I was a missionary and I knocked on the door and a little girl answered, she's probably four or five years old. They said, is your mom home? And she said,

my mom told me to tell you that she's not home right now. And I said, okay, could you go ask your mom when she'll be back? And the girl turned around and she goes, Hey, mom, when will you be home? That's awesome. Shifting the responsibility, I think it feels good in the short run because then I'm not to blame.

I'm shifting it to someone else. But I remember, as a young missionary, Elder Lindsey Robbins came to my mission and he talked to us about the importance of not making excuses and taking responsibility. He later gave BYU devotional on a similar topic called a 100% responsibility. And his book that applies this to marriage love is a choice, is really powerful. If the problem is somewhere else, if it's the people who are doing it, then I can't change it.

But if it's me, then I can change it. So the principle of agency and accountability is so huge and can help us, I think, when we're trying to shift the blame beathers to remind myself, no, I am an agent. There's power within me. And yes, that means that I have to take some uncomfortable responsibility. But it also means I can change the situation. When Lehigh is talking to his son Jacob in Second Nephi 2, he speaks of things that God created both to act and things to be acted upon. And I know Elder Bednar has talked about that. And maybe Lynn Robbins too, Elder Robbins about that idea of saying, when you say, this made me do it or that made me do it or she makes me mad, you're being

acted upon instead of being someone who's been given agency in acting. I thought such a great way to describe all of the creation, things that act should be us and things that are acted upon. And like we said in the beginning, all of these things tie to Jesus Christ. Remember in Doctrine and Covenant section 1 verse 38, he said, what I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken,

and I excuse not myself. So Jesus Christ doesn't make excuses. He doesn't shift the blame. He didn't say walking into guess so many like, oh, maybe this might be too hard. No, he went through the hard things for us. And I just think there's power in that principle and in seeing Jesus Christ as the ultimate foundation of that principle. Aaron has an opportunity here to be honest.

It's interesting because he tells the truth up until the point where it's like they told me to make them gods. So I told them to give me their gold. So so far it's the truth. Then 24, I threw it into the fire. Okay, we're still good Aaron, you're still telling the truth here. And then there's, and now it came to this cafe. Does some fire you built there? Yeah, I'm withholding some information. He received them at their hand,

fashioned it with a graving tool. After he had made the calf, he made this calf, right? He molded it and made the calf. We have opportunities in life to tell the truth and to just own up to our mistakes. I did it. And I don't want to say that those are great moments. Those aren't fun, but there is a power that comes in confession in owning up to once mistakes and saying, it was me.

You know how it is with your kids. When a child comes and says, Dad, I made a mistake. I did this. I mean, your heart is soft and so quickly. And you have only fathers like that when we get on their knees and say, I, I really messed up because we've all had that situation as dads. But if somebody's willing to own it and say, I did something really stupid, you're immediately, you're willing to forgive.

And as leaders too, we might do this. We might refuse to say, I made a mistake. It's like, oh, the people, they were. That made me laugh, John. Thanks for that. While we're on this topic here, I think a good question is, why do the people even want a graven image? And the Come Fall Me manual has some great insightful questions and thoughts at this point. It says, why do you think the Israelites wanted a golden idol? Why was the Israelites sin so serious?

These verses might prompt you to ponder ways you might be tempted to put your trust in someone or something other than the Savior. And I've gotta be honest, I have never desired a golden calf in my life. not once, I am impervious to this temptation. But you think about, you know, what might that represents in my life? So often, I'll feel like, well, yes,

the Lord is not enough in my life, but I really want the Lord plus a really good job. Jesus plus a good marriage is enough, or Jesus plus my kids doing exactly what I want. That's enough. And I think this is a reminder that Jesus is enough, period, the end, that's all I need. I don't need the golden calf, I don't need anything else.

And while probably none of us are tempted to worship an idol in that sense, I think this is a great point to step back and say, am I looking for my security in something other than the Savior? Because if I am, I'm going to come up short and feel pain because other things will fail me at one time or another. It's like the Helaman statement. He's the only shore foundation and everything else is a

bad foundation. It seems it is almost easier to get the people out of Egypt than to get the Egypt out of the people. They brought so much of their old life with them. It looks to me like they're having a hard time letting that go and fully investing in this new relationship with God that they have. They're kind of dragging their feet a little bit. The golden calves of my life, we could make lists of things that we often prioritize maybe, as the golden calves of our lives in front of We just talked about the Sabbath day. I'm not willing to give this up or this up or this up even though I know I probably should Those are golden calves. Those are things I don't want to give up for my relationship with God and look at verse 7

Where the Lord tells Moses these people have corrupted themselves. They did this. I don't want them to be corrupt. I don't want their life to have this in it, but they chose it. So if I think about the golden calves of my life, John, I think of anything I prioritize higher than the Lord, or maybe just as high. Do you remember Elder Scott would say, if you're living as though the Lord and his commandments are one of your many important priorities, you're clearly on the road to tragedy. Remember what? For example, maybe my social media feed might be more important to me than my scripture study or a professional basketball team that shouldn't be named. Maybe more important to me than spending time with my children or attending

their events or attending even the temple with my wife, something like that where I just have these golden calves in my life and they're corrupting my life. I'm choosing corruption in that way. And hang on, I love how you're kind of sharing some real life examples. I think this is a great moment for Lord is that I, like at the last supper when Jesus says, one of you will betray me, they just hype me, say, it isn't me.

Some of us, you know, we could probably be listening to think, oh yeah, you know, wait, I hope my husband or I hope that my brother is really listening to this podcast right now because they've got some gold knives, they gotta get rid of. You know, this is a great chance to think, oh yeah, you know, boy, I hope my husband or I hope that my brother is really listening to this podcast right now because they've got some gold on us, they gotta get rid of. You know, this is a great chance to think about, okay, so how do I take responsibility? How do I make sure that I'm putting God,

not just as one of many important priorities, but really first. Egypt seems to me like a Babylon. Oh, Babylon, oh Babylon, we bid the farewell. These people need to do that with Egypt. They need to bid it farewell and embrace fully this relationship with God. But I think Egypt, like Babylon,

doesn't give exit permits gladly. Right? It hangs on and we have to deliberately, deliberately shed the traditions of our past. We started today with the story that's a little disturbing and you don't often hear in primary deliberately shed the traditions of our past. We started today with the story that's a little disturbing and you don't often hear in primary. And we have another one that's coming up right now in verse 25.

When Moses saw that the people were running wild for Aaron had let them run wild to the derision of their enemies, then Moses stood in the gate of the camp and said, who is on the Lord's side? Come to me and all the sons of Levi gathered around him. And if we ever read this first, we'll usually stop right there at verse 26 and then we'll say, Okay, awesome. Now who would like to sing who's on the Lord's side? Who? And we'll sing that hymn. And that'll be great. And I hope that we don't ruin that hymn for you for the rest of your life because right after this phrase, who's on the Lord's side? verse 27, Moses said to them, thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, put your sword on your side

each of you. Go back and forth from gate to gate throughout the camp and each of you kill your brother, your friend, and your neighbor. The sons of Levi did as Moses commanded, and about 3,000 of the people fell on that day. This is one of many, and we've seen some already, and more are coming in the future where we read something in the Old Testament or in other books of scripture, and it's a little disturbing. And we think, why would this have happened?

And I don't have a rock solid answer on this specific story, but I thought maybe we could just think together about some basic principles. And so possibilities to consider when you read something like this, that's disturbing. This story is more than 3,500 years old. So it's very possible that some specific details may have been lost.

That's one possibility. Another possibility is that this story was written down by someone at some point in time, probably several hundred years after it happened. Does this story reflect more the will of God or the will of Moses, or perhaps a later redactor, or a viewpoint of someone else? That's a possibility. Or is it possible that the Israelites, they've just witnessed these 10 plagues. They've witnessed the crossing of the Red Sea. They've had so many witnesses, and they promised three times. We're gonna keep the escovenants, and now they're deliberately not coming to Moses's side.

They're choosing to see another side, and so because of this heightened accountability, there's a heightened responsibility. That's a possibility. And there may be other things that we haven't talked about. The Come Fall Me Manual coming up in just a couple of weeks. It has a little section called the historical books of the Old Testament. And I'll just read a little paragraph from it. It says, what should we do when we come across passages and the scriptures that seem troubling?

First, it might help to consider each passage in a broader context. How does it fit in God's plan of salvation? How does it fit with what you know about the nature of Heavenly Father in Jesus Christ? How does it fit with revealed truths in other scriptures or the teachings of living prophets? And how does it fit with the whisperings of the spirit to your own hearts in mind?

This isn't fully solved the issue of, wow, what happened that day? Why was that the case? But I hope that those are some principles that can help us keep not only this story, but other stories that will encounter in the future in a perspective. I like that, John. This is the idea where you hit something like this and you say, I don't know. And then you kind of move on and you let it sit there for a little while. And maybe later one day you come back

and it makes more sense to you at a certain time. But yeah, you're right. Just acknowledging that things are tough, that this is disturbing and it's okay that it's disturbing. I would hate if anyone said, this is my favorite part. Don't throw everything away because you've hit this disturbing part.

Let it just sit for a while and see if maybe later on you understand it at a different time. It's weird that they're all the sons of Levi. Just we'll do it. Who's on the Lord's side? Did anyone else say we're on the Lord's side? Or was it just the sons of Levi? There's gotta be a lot more people.

When you read it, the people are running wild. I think our listeners would prefer that to the King James in verse 25. And I think the footnote in the King James uses the word naked, but the footnote says... Right until it's loose. Yeah, exactly. One thing, John's, as I read difficult passages like this, I try to remember that death is so different to the Lord than it is for us. For us, it seems so final and like there's a retribution here.

But to the Lord, remember that death is moving to a different classroom. Latter-day Saint doctrine, we believe that people in the next life, the dead who repent will be redeemed. So perhaps try to see it as one of the many possibilities we've talked about. Try to see this as a, the Lord moving them to a different classroom to be taught instead of staying here where they may do even more damage if this type of behavior continues. It's crucial for Israel that they leave Egypt behind both physically and spiritually. Go on, Magnum. List of possibilities. Sometimes we just come to Isaiah 55, 8, 9, where the

Lord says, for my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways, my ways. So there may be some things that we just don't understand, and perhaps when we're sitting with the Lord in the next life, and he gives us some added perspective or some details in the story that aren't recorded here, all of a sudden we say, oh, okay, that makes sense. I've often thought that. Before we move on to chapter 33, I wanted to make a note of Exodus 32, verse 20. These are interesting verses.

These are interesting stories where Moses takes the golden calf, grinds it to powder, mixes it with water. So we've got our first protein powder here. And he made them drink of it. And I thought, man, that is such an interesting he's saying listen if you love it so much then why don't you go ahead and internalize it right so maybe it's a physical representation of what they're spiritually are doing they're internalizing this idolatry and he says well let me show you how sick this will make you. I've often

wondered if I go to the bishop and I tell my struggle with, here's my phone, you know, and I'm struggling with pornography or something and he had a big blender in his office and he, you know, mixed the phone with some water and blended it up and he said, okay, now drink this. I would say, I would never do that. Well, why are you internalizing spiritually these things? If you wouldn't let them into your body, why are you letting them into your mind and heart? So maybe there's an interesting lesson there, but I thought, wow, you love it that much.

Fine, you drink it. I think it was Elder Bruce C. Haif and that we've had on the podcast who said that as we partake of the sacrament, we assimilate the atonement. I think those words he is, we bring it into art, we put it inside. And that's a positive way of looking at it, take the bread, the emblems of the sacrament. So we've talked about types of crisis, could be like an anti type of Christ in a sense.

That should be a good object lesson for parents. If your kids love TV and won't give it up, just put it in the blender. It's just grind it a powder and we'll all drink it as a family night treat. All right, John, we wanna move on to 33. So the Lord is gonna have a conversation with Moses and basically we're kind of going back to where we were

in Exodus 24. Moses is going to go back up to the mountain, he's gonna receive more knowledge and inspiration from the Lord. Maybe we can highlight a really powerful couple of phrases. In verse 11, we see that the Lord spoke to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friend. That's a powerful verse on so many levels. Number one, it tells us something about the nature of God that he's a personage. It also tells us about the type of communion that we can have. I remember fairly recently Elder Emmerstle Ballard said something to the effect of every member of the church can have an

apostolic like relationship with the Lord. To me, that really raised the bar of, okay, like I can really develop a close relationship with the Lord. And maybe verse 11 is another one of those, although it's clear throughout the text that Moses has a special relationship with God that's different from others, that I can strive towards having this ability in my prayers to speak with the Lord as a man, speak to his friend, to really know him, to really connect with the Lord in prayer. And then right after that, in verse 12 is one of my all-time favorite one-liners.

I know that you both enjoy finding these short, powerful, scriptural phrases. And in verse 12, Moses says, you have said, I know you by name. And I love that, that the Lord says, I know you by name. And I love that that the Lord says, I know you by name. And to me, those two pastors together really give a sense for the type of relationship we can have with the Lord. He knows us by name and cares about us. And so when we put that extra time and effort to develop a relationship with him, that is not time wasted. Beautiful. That's the first word of the first vision, Joseph, right? In that very first word, Joseph learns. He knows who I am. He knows my name, right? The Lord

didn't say, hey, kid, right? Or you, or hey, farm boy, one of them spaking a me calling me by name. I know your name. That's beautiful, John. Now while we're here wrapping up 33 briefly, if you look later, there seems to be a verse that contradicts verse 11 and verse 20, this idea of no one can look on my face. And so some people have wondered what's happening with this contradiction here. So again, there's lots of possibilities. One is that maybe a later editor doesn't like the idea of face to face or has a different understanding of it. And so is maybe putting a counterpoint there. But I think what's most helpful maybe for Latter-day Saints is the Joseph Smith translation of Exodus 33-20,

which says, the Lord said to Moses, cannot see my face at this time. For no man shall see me at this time and live, for they are exceedingly sinful. And so again, there are many possibilities from the first vision we see that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have physical bodies. So there is no doubt that Moses could speak to them face to face. What I see in 33, John, is the Lord saying, look, I want to give you this land flowing with milk and honey. That's 33 verse 3. But this is a stiff, naked people.

And everything we've discussed today, it seems like the Lord is ready to give them blessings and their own choices are what's holding them back. Maybe the story of my life, right, that the Lord is saying, here's all of these blessings, I'm ready to give them to you. Are you ready to choose them? The promised land is ready for you, but you've got to get yourself ready for it.

That's beautiful, I love that. So if we go into Exodus chapter 34, the Lord tells Moses to cut two additional tablets of stone. So he broke the first two tablets, and we're about to see more revelation being given to Moses. There's a couple of beautiful passages that we probably want to highlight. Starting in verse 6, the Lord passed before Moses and proclaimed, the Lord the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and a bounding instead fast love and faithfulness, keeping steadfast love for the thousandth generation, forgiving andiquity and transgression and sin.

And I think these are some verses, just we've read a few challenging things in our chapters today, but it's important to remember that these verses are describing the Lord. And then Moses and verse nine says, if now I have found favor in your site, O Lord, I pray, let the Lord go with us. Although this is a stiff-necked people, pardon our inequity in our sin and take us for your inheritance. And we talked earlier about praying like a prophet. I think this is a beautiful, Moses doesn't say, hey, you owe us, Lord. He says, look, I get it. We're not a lot to work with, but can you please, have patience with us and do what you can with us, Lord.

I think that's a great way also to approach the Lord in prayer. And it's interesting that Moses even takes it on himself. Our pardon, ouriquity and our sin, where at least at the golden calf, he wasn't part of that. Yeah, but he identifies with his people. That's another advocate idea that you pointed out, John, where I'm an advocate for my people. I really love the inside about, don't just notice that prophets pray, but notice what they say. If we go over to verse 11, the Lord gives some interesting commandments. I wanted to just maybe brainstorm a little bit about what does this look like for us today.

So to Moses, the Lord says, observe what I command you today. See, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Parasites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. Take care not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a snare among you. You shall tear down their altars, break their pillars, cut down their sacred poles, for you shall worship no other God. It's really clear that the Lord is calling us people to be separate and distinct from the other peoples in the world.

And I think, I mean, this is one of the reasons I'm so grateful for living prophets. God isn't telling us today through living prophets, you know, to isolate ourselves. We're supposed to be in the world, but not of the world. And so I think the principle here is, you got to be separate and distinct. And I love your insights on, what do you think this looks like? The general principle looks like for us in our society today, where we are living in a secular society. He said back in 33 verse 16, so shall we be separated. It's distinctive. I'm looking at the footnote verse 33, 16, distinctive. And accepting the fact that when you are in a relationship with the Lord,

you are going to be different than most people. Last year we talked about the word of wisdom. Yes, being a health code, but more importantly, being something that makes you different. Garments are another thing where people would say, oh, that's weird, that's odd, help peculiar. And you would say, well, this is part of me accepting the fact that I'm different. My relationship with the Lord makes me different. And I think it was Elaine Dalton who said, if you want to make a difference, you've got to be willing

to be different. To me, that's the Lord saying, you're not going to take part in anything else in this land, because I want you to remain different from everyone else. I wonder if when they were in Egypt, and maybe John, you know about this, did they accept some of the Egyptian gods and is the Lord telling him, don't do that this time. It's all me and don't start absorbing the culture around you. Did they accept some of the Egyptian gods and maybe one of the reasons for the plagues was to discount every one of those gods for the Egyptians and for the House of Israel. I'm honestly not clear on that. Like the idea of the 10 plagues and the like combating the 10 Egyptian gods,

I think that's pretty clear, but I don't know that we have scriptural evidence that the Israelites were. It's certainly possible. Oh yeah, you would think that would be something that eventually becomes, I mean, you're building these temples, you're building these statues. You're living a culture, right? I wondered if after so long in Egypt, maybe they had adopted some of the culture, maybe even some of the gods of Egypt, and that maybe the Lord just wants to take that dry erase board and just erase everything. Don't partake of that culture.

I'm Jehovah. You're supposed to worship me. Boy, talk about a clean slate, go through and start all over again. I mean, that phrase in verse 15, what a strong statement they go a whoring after other gods. Wow, don't make a covenant with them, start all over.

I also think that we need to remember that God isn't telling us this because He needs us to be constantly worshipping Him to build His self-esteem or anything like that. I also think that we need to remember that God isn't telling us this because he needs us to be constantly worshiping him to build his self-esteem or anything like that. This is because we find happiness and joy as we're connected to Christ, and we find sorrow as we lose that connection. If we were to go back to verse 10, the Lord says, hereby I make a covenant. Before all your people, I will perform marvels, such as not have been performed in all the

earth. And I think that's again, God wants to make something amazing out of us. And he's wanting us to connect with him not for his own purpose, but so that he can make more of us than we can make of ourselves. And look at the end of verse 10, another great one liner. The very last line, in the King James, it uses the word terrible, but an alternate translation is awesome. So the Lord says, for it is an awesome thing that I will do with you. And I love that God is saying, I want to make you awesome. I'm asking you, be with me so I can do that for you. Right, and clean all these other things out of your life. I don't want other gods there to taint our relationship.

I want to give you this fully. So our chapters for today don't really have a satisfying conclusion because the Lord is going to give Moses some additional revelation and then all that revelation is going to be unfolded to us in our next week, come follow me chapters and it's going to be acted upon as they build the Tabernacle. But I thought maybe a nice way for us to conclude today might be to step back and think about all of the different ways where Moses is a type of Jesus Christ. And there's probably way more than we'll be able to list right now. But just think of some that have come up in the verses we've looked at today.

Moses is fasting for 40 days and 40 nights, just like Jesus, fast for 40 days and 40 nights. Moses receives the law on the mountain side, whereas Jesus gives the new law on the mount with the sermon on the mount. There's other connections like Moses as the mediator, saying he's going to make an atonement pleading for his people. Jesus truly making an atonement pleading for us. There's

the blood of the old covenant. There's the blood of the new covenant. I think Moses is a great example of the scriptural phrase that all things testify of Christ. And Moses as a person, things testify of Christ. And Moses as a person testified directly of Christ, but also Moses, the person testifies of Christ. And John, you started today with Exodus 24 with Moses sprinkling the blood. And we might go, Oh, what is what's going on here? But we can see the Savior's death, the Savior on the cross, offering up his own blood in sacrifice. In Colossians, the Apostle Paul talks about the blood of the cross, and Jesus talked about the blood of His New Testament. That's another powerful connection. I like this, looking for the Savior in these chapters. John, you've just outlined some of the ways in these chapters, but what are some of the other ways outside of these chapters that Moses is such a strong type of Christ? Just a couple of examples that come to mind. Early on, they both have near-death

experiences as a baby. You've got Pharaoh trying to kill baby boys, Herod trying to kill baby boys. Moses is going in and out of Egypt, just as Jesus is going in and out of Egypt. Recently, we talked about water flowing from a rock as Moses gets water for the people. Water flows from Jesus's side on the cross, and Jesus had earlier said, if anyone is thirsty, let them come unto me, for out of my belly shall flow forth waters, living waters. I think this will just be a theme that we could manna, mana. Mana and Jesus is the bread of life, but in so many ways, the story of the Exodus and Moses in particular is the story of Jesus. And that's just true with every other passage of Scripture that we'll see. The story of David and Goliath is about someone who is weak, defeating the strong for us,

Jesus in that same way. And so I love what we talked about at the very beginning of finding all the ways we can to identify Jesus in these Old Testament passages. You know, there's another one that's just kind of fun because it's not scriptural, but it's in Josephus. And if you've seen the movie, the Ten Commandments, which is where kind of where I learned about Moses the first time, was watching that movie. At the very beginning, they're talking to the Pharaohs, said he the first and his priests, the Pharaohs priests are saying there's word among the Hebrews of a deliverer, and one of them says, a star proclaims his birth.

And that's from Josephus, said that there was a new star when Moses was born. And I've always thought, that's why that's in the movie, because Josephus said there was a new star. In so many ways, it's so easy to see a lot of things that Moses did that the Savior did. I always just think of leading us out of bondage into the Promised Land, as Moses did, and Jesus leads us out of spiritual bondage through his atonement to be with him again. So I love that we can draw so much of Christ from the Old Testament. Jesus leads us out of spiritual bondage through his atonement to be with him again. So I love that we can draw so much of Christ from the Old Testament. This has just been a fantastic day.

I'm looking at all the things we've talked about from learning that the Sabbath is a delight talking about those who were blessed to work on the details of the temple with their gifts. We talked about the delays sometimes in life and coming to testimony of the temple with their gifts. We talked about the delays sometimes in life and coming to testimony of the commandments that sometimes we corrupt ourselves or sometimes we blame others like Aaron. I didn't do it. It was somebody else that we find out in life. We talked about Moses says, Lord, you know me. You know me by name. All of this is just, this is beautiful.

Oh, and that the Lord says, I want to do awesome things for you. I want to give you a land that flows with milk and honey. All of this seems very real to 2022 and we can learn these same lessons. So let me ask both of you. One of you experienced some of these same things. Could we have a part three of this episode?

Because as you were talking, I'm like, wow, I have stories that I could share on all of these. But one that came to mind as you were talking about was the delay. And it connects with a couple of the other principles and experience from my life back in 2007. I started feeling that I should start a PhD program. So I applied a year and a half in advance, got accepted to a PhD program, and I was at the time I was working for the Seminary and Institute program in Florida. And I made an application, a year and a half from now I want to be able to move, and I thought that was very reasonable giving them enough time. But this was also the middle of the housing crisis. And so for a variety of reasons, the church put a hold on moves. I was just very expensive to move employees around.

And so they said, we can't move you. I prayed and I felt really confident that we should sell our house and move to Utah and start this PhD program. And I specifically felt the Lord say, don't worry, everything will work out. But over the next few months, nothing worked out. My employer said, if you move, it'll lose your job. And I thought, okay, they're probably just joking, but they weren't joking. I lost my job. And selling our house in the midst of a housing crisis was terrible. It was a miracle that our house

even sold it all. But like along the way for the in these months, when everything was looked like it was falling apart and something's actually didn't look like the Velvart, they did fall apart. I was constantly stressed and nervous. And even though the Lord had said, everything's going to work out. Don't worry. I worried all the time. And to me, that's just a minor example, maybe, but I think it's a real example of delay, even though like I didn't leave the church or, you know, break on my covenants, I felt so beat up inside. And I kind of can see the Lord crying a little bit for me saying, like, John, you didn't have to do that. Those

nine months when your life was just full of constant stress, I told you everything was going to work out. You could have enjoyed those nine months. They didn't have to be nine months of stress. I wish you would have let me in. The happy part of the stories that in the long run, things did work out. Eventually, I was able to get a PhD. I got hired for my dream job, teaching religion at BYU. And now looking back, I feel like this whole episode was part of the Lord doing an awesome thing in my life. But that doesn't mean it wasn't painful at the time. And going back to one of the principles we talked about earlier, the golden calf, I think for me, my golden calf

was knowing exactly how everything was gonna work out. That's still one of the idols that I have today. I don't like uncertainty, I don't like surprises. I wanna know exactly what's gonna happen and how things are gonna work out. And in this case, I didn't know that. And it was so painful. I was basically saying, yes, Jesus is enough.

But really what I meant was Jesus plus knowing everything's going to work out. That's enough. And being able to see every detail. That's one experience for my life where I've seen some of the principles we've been talking about at a personal level. I think a lot of our young adult listeners are thinking of how topsy-turvy things would be. You got your mission called to

here, but then you didn't actually go there. You learned a language here, but you didn't even use that language, or maybe you didn't, and then you were called home, and then you never even saw the MTC. And we had a kid in our ward. Oh, it was so good. He got up and he said, I had the privilege of serving during a worldwide pandemic. And I immediately knew, oh good, listen to the way the Lord has helped him think of this. And he talked about being called the South African and then being called home.

And then getting a job because he didn't know what was gonna happen, it was such a delay and worked as an EMT or something. And then got called to New Mexico and how all the sudden the things he learned he used in New Mexico. And then back to South Africa, Elder Forsyth said his closing line as I recall was, my mission did not turn out the way that I expected, but it happened more beautifully than I had planned.

And I was just so gratified to hear his perspective of trusting the Lord enough to say, no, there may be a delay, it may not be what I thought, but it worked out beautifully, and all of it was kept as faith in the Lord, you know. That's excellent. You know, that phrase Exodus 3312 that John showed us here. Moses says, you have said, I know the by name, and now has also found grace in my sight. Moses is trusting the idea that the Lord knows who he is and that the Lord knows each individual. Way back in 2005, Elder David Bednar gave a talk called the tender mercies of the Lord. It was his very first full talk in general conference.

He had been called six months before and Boris Testimony at conference. He talked about the moment he was called and sustained as a member of the 12. And he said, I want to describe and discuss a spiritual pressure. And I received a few moments before I stepped to this pulpit during the Sunday morning session of General Conference last October. He talks about Elder Uktorf, who had been called at the same time as him, had born his testimony. We all stood and sang together the intermediate him, Redeemer of Israel. He says, quote, now the music for the various conference sessions had been determined to many weeks before and obviously long before my new call to serve. If however I had been invited to suggest an intermediate hymn for that particular session

of the conference, a hymn that would have been both edifying and spiritually soothing for me and for the congregation before my first address in this conference center, I would have selected my favorite hymn, Redeemer of Israel. It was the same hymn. Tears filled my eyes as I stood with you to sing that stirring hymn of the Restoration. He goes on a little bit later and says,

a loving Savior was sending me a most personal and timely message of comfort and reassurance through a hymn selected weeks previously. Some may count this experience as simply a nice coincidence, but I testify that the tender mercies of the Lord are real. They do not occur randomly or merely by coincidence. And I've heard Elder Bednar talk about this at other times where he says, the Lord knows us, each one of us, one by one, name by name. Since that talk, I tried to find and record and pay attention to those experiences where I see that the Lord knows me and knows my, knows my name, knows who I am.

And as I write those down and testify of them, I find that I get more of them. I find that the Lord sees that I'm taking them seriously. And to me, that's one of the awesome things the Lord has done for me has been to show me, hey, I know you. I know who you are. I know what you're going through. I'm aware of you. Our friend, John Hilton, the third, he so great, they made three of him it has been a privilege to have you with us today and this won't be the last time we have you so before we let you go and say goodbye just for now because we'll I'm sure we'll have you back soon. What are your parting thoughts for our listeners? Is that we were just concluding, Hank, you shared some beautiful thoughts on tender

mercies and John and I talked about a few stories where there's delays, but in the end things worked out. I just want to take a moment and talk directly to the people who aren't seeing tender mercies right now, who you're in a delay and things don't look like they're going to work out. I think some of the most painful examples of this are with physical challenges, and also with challenges that we have no control over. Maybe there's a child who's gone astray or making bad choices,

and maybe that child is not going to make a dramatic change like Amalde the Younger did. But to everyone who's in the middle of this divine delay, I want to testify that Jesus Christ is real. He does know you by name. He cares about you. And as we've seen throughout these scripture accounts and we'll see as we continue to go through Exodus and beyond, Jesus Christ lives, He loves us, and even though it's painful, when we are able to stay in those difficult moments with Jesus, we're always better off

than when we leave him. And I know that's true. I love that, John. John, thank you so, so much. No wonder the course that you created is called Seeking Jesus. Sounds like you do that daily. And just as a reminder, everybody, you can find that wherever you get your podcasts. John, by the way, we've had a great day.

Really great. I feel like I understand these chapters more than before. I've got notes that I'm going to use in my classes. We hope that all of you have enjoyed being with us today and that you have your scriptures out and you're taking notes and you're sharing this with other people so they can have these same experiences. So from my two Johns, my two friends, John Hilton and John, by the way, we want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorenson, our sponsors,

David and Verla Sorenson. Thank you for being here, and we hope all of you will join us on our next episode of Follow Him.