Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Ezekiel Part 2 • Dr. Jan J. Martin • Oct. 24 - 30

Episode Date: October 19, 2022

Dr. Jan Martin continues to discuss the gathering of Israel and how the Lord gives his children a new life, even freedom from the captivity of sin.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/old-testament/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to our sponsors:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producers, SponsorsDavid & Verla Sorensen: Sponsors

Welcome to part 2 of Dr. Jan Martin, the book of Ezekiel. Okay, so we've had some fun in chapter 18, and we've had this theme of the Lord being sad when people sin, when they read the consequences of those sin. He doesn't take pleasure in sin. interesting is as you carry on with chapters 19 through about 32, you start seeing the Lord talking about the other nations that are around Jerusalem. That question that we talked about the beginning, well, if these other nations are wicked, why are they not having consequences? The Lord starts talking about Judah, of course, he starts with them again, but then he starts talking about Tyre, and he starts talking about tire and he starts talking about Egypt and some of the other nations around and what's going to happen to them, that they're all

going to reap consequences for their wickedness in the future. But the interesting thing is that the Lord is not happy about any of this. And so I just love that we carry on that understanding that God doesn't want this for his kids and his children no matter what nation they belong to. And then we get this incredible lamentation for Egypt in chapter 32, which you can see of, I just don't want this. This isn't what I want for the human family. And then we hit chapter 33, which is such a fabulous chapter.

So we can just go right over there and jump in to that one. That long bridge reminds me of Enic. Why are you weeping? Yes. Why does God weep? It's poetry, isn't it, Hank? And Shedforth, their tears is reigned upon the mountains.

It's like, wow, that's... Yeah, and Moses 7, Enic says to the Lord, how is it that thou can't weep, seeing that thou art holy from all eternity to all eternity? And he goes on and says, you've made all this, it's amazing. Why do you weep? In verse 32, the Lord said into Enoch, behold these thy brethren,

they are the workmanship of my known hands, and I gave unto them their knowledge in the day I created them, and in the Garden of Eden gave I and to man his his agency and I gave them a commandment that they should love one another. They should choose me their father but they're without affection and they hate their own blood and then he goes on later wherefore should not the heavens weep seeing these shall suffer. Is that the message Jan of those chapters? Yes and I was just going to put one in thirty two eighteen just to go along for what you said.

Look what he tells Ezekiel, son of man, whale for the multitude of Egypt. There's that theme of sorrowing and lamenting and crying over people's choices and what's happened. There is no pleasure for the Lord in this. This isn't what he wants for his people. Well, what's fun about it is we just did that great stuff on the watchman in the tower back. And now we hit 33. And if you look at your chapter heading, that's the very first word that appears. But the verse that starts it is verse six. And we go back to this, if the watchman see the sword come and blow not the trumpet, and the people may not

warn. If the sword come, and suddenly you're back to, as you kill, you're the watchman on the tower. If you look at verse seven, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel. So hear my word and warn them from me. So fun, we just had our little bridge of all the lamentations and worrying about it. But now we're back to, let's try and prevent this.

Let's get the warnings going. And you're still that person that I need you on the tower. But chapter 33 is fantastic. So I'm having for you guys to jump in with any verses that you like, especially there's just lots to lots to like about chapter 33. I like how he's mentioning again to Ezekiel. Don't forget your role with all that you've seen. Do not forget your role. We could start with looking at verse 10 just because we've had this theme of what is repentance like.

And he says, oh, the Son of Man speak under the House of Israel. Thus you speak saying, if our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should then live. So again, repentance is about coming to grips with the past, about making the past something we can make right and be at peace with. But a lot of us do pine away in our sins for way too long and then carry them on, but we can't live like that. And then you get this again, the same theme in verse 11. As I live, say at the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death, the wicked.

Like I've provided you this atonement. I want you to use it. I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Like I've provided you this atonement. I want you to use it. I want you to utilize it. Please just use it. Why will you die? There's that question again, right? They're at the end of verse 11. So pying away. Is that like we're rotting? Is that like it's so heavy? We're rotting away. When you see people like I can relate to this a little more from maybe the dating perspective. Like when you like someone that doesn't like you back and you keep pining away for them, this unrequited love that you have, you know, you just kind of hang about in your room and you never come out and you're sad and you know, you're just pining away after something that you can't solve or can't have.

And so that's what comes to me is just an inability to move on beyond accepting the truth of the fact that this person is never going to require the fact how you feel. So you kind of need to move on from there. But we struggle with that. But with our sins, like, oh, come on, our sins, it's going to give me happiness. It's going to give me happiness. My sins are going to give me happiness. And finally, you got to let go of that fantasy. And the Lord's going, I have no pleasure in going to give me happiness. And finally, you've got to let go of that fantasy. And the Lord's going, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

Never going to work. Keep going, Jen. Keep walking us through this chapter. OK. We've kind of had some of these things previously. When you start looking in verse 12, he's giving him a direction to keep telling the people about what righteousness does, how wickedness works,

and so, you know, kind of these same things. And it's just funny to think about sometimes how hard it is for us to get this message. When I do good things, good consequences come, and when I don't do good things, negative consequences come. And the Lord just kind of walks you through that again. And you just see the logic, the simplicity of choice and accountability and agency and how we can function in that a little more Healthily, but it's just some commentary to me on why we struggle so much to get that. So we do simple lesson, but it is a difficult one to learn.

Yeah, but you know, as we grow and develop, I think we get a little bit wiser and maybe we can be Making better choices and always keep going around in these kind of cycles there I'm looking in verse 21 and thinking look at the calendar they're keeping in the 12th year of our captivity the 10th month the 5th day We were marking our time as exiles one that had escaped out of Jerusalem came into me saying, the city is smitten. You have to imagine what this is like for Ezekiel though. Because remember, he's been told he's going to have pushback, he's had plenty of pushback. And now you have somebody coming from the destruction who's telling them that it actually happened. And so just imagine that setting with the people who didn't believe him, the people who did,

and how Ezekiel might be feeling when the confirmation comes. And you see verse 22, the hand of the Lord was upon me in the evening, a four, that means before he that was escaped cane and had opened my mouth until he came to me in the morning. And my mouth was opened and I was no more dumb. So here we go. I've been communing with the Lord, the destruction happened and now we have this person coming and confirming it and then he gets to tell some more things from 23 on. But you just have to go, what a moment for a Zee Keele to receive that confirmation that

everything had been saying was right in reality and what that might have done to the group there. Yeah, the shock of that news, Jerusalem actually fell. Is it Lehigh in the book Mormon who says it's been told to me too? Yeah. Yeah, second Nephi chapter one's where he says that, doesn't it? Well, he may say it earlier than I actually as well, but there's certainly one in second if I won. He got word of it too.

Yeah, let's keep going. Okay. So one thing to point out in the final bits of chapter 33, jump down, look at verse 27, we now have a confirmation that the homeland has been destroyed. And now we're living in captivity. And he says, say thou thus unto them, thus say at the Lord God, as I live, surely they that are in the wastes shall fall by the sword and him that is in the open field, will I give to thee the beast to be devoured.

And it goes on with this consequences that this kind of thing will keep happening as long as you're wicked. So can we use what happened to Jerusalem? Can you learn from what happened over there? And let's have you captives turn this around and make sure that where you're living and where you're establishing yourself, that you can start keeping your covenants and moving forward. And we really need to learn how to learn from other people. Yeah. And that's the one thing about consequences too. They don't stop when you're like,

K, I've had enough, they just keep coming. Yeah. This is tragic. Of course, they're going to be upset about the loss of Jerusalem, but we need to internalize that message and say, okay, if I don't want this happen to me, what can I do differently than that? Now, sadly, when you look down at verse 31, he's talking, you know, they come unto thee as the people come with and they sit before thee as my people and they hear thy words, but look at the problem, but they will not do them. For with their mouth, they show much love,

but their heart go with after their covetousness. Oh, man, that is an incriminating verse. Yeah. I love verse 32 and low, vowel art unto them is a very lovely song of one that has a pleasant voice and can play well on an instrument for they hear thy words, but they do them not.

Oh, King Benjamin, if you believe all these things, see that you do them. See that you do them not. King Benjamin, if you believe all these things, see that you do them. You do them. Yeah. So what a great commentary on, you know, we all have good intentions and we all have desires to do things, but part of what we are judged on isn't just our desires, it's our works. And there's both of those factors there. And I'm really glad that we have all these

professions of goodness and want to do these things. But the proof is in the behavior. And we need to just live and change. And as you're changing and you're acting them out, that's really who you are. They hear the words, but they will not do them. That's a verse that hits you because I've done that. I've done that many times, heard it and gone, that is just good thing to do. And then I never did it. I never went out. Yeah. We just got through conference and how many of us heard all these great words and thought those are good things to do. And then went right back to what we were doing before. Yeah. Oh. You know what I loved in one of our recent episodes, Hank, was that reminder that when President Monson gave that last talk and led with everybody to read the book of Mormon, who went out

and did it. President Nelson, there's pictures of him out on his patio just with his books out on the table there studying and took that very seriously. He heard the words and he did them. That can be an encouraging verse as well. Not just I don't have to feel so much guilt, I can also say, you know what? He's right, I'm going to do it and then get started doing something. Oh man, I'm glad you pointed those verses out. That's rough. They're so beautiful. I mean, there's just beauty in the picture of this

and the language of it. And then just the ending of chapter 33, when this come at the path low, it will come. Then shall they know that a prophet have been among them. I mean, you would think they'd already know that because of what happened to Jerusalem and all of his words came about,

but those kinds of evidences don't generally bring about conversion. They're just kind of a nice little thing, but it's that doing and they applying that helps you really understand that there's a profit among, amongst you because he's told you you've tried it. You found out for yourself that this was true and suddenly you have that strengthening confirmation that he is indeed a prophet, not just because of signs and things like what is he guilty of having happened here. Yeah, I can't think of a more a section that we've read so far today that fits our day

than these 30 through 33. I mean, if they talk like let's all get together, it'll be wonderful. I pray we'll hear the word of the Lord and hear it, but they don't do it. That is an incriminating verse, but it is, like I said before, a candy encouraging, because there is time. Let's get to work. Let's be determined with general conference and things that they say. Let's pick one thing. What if we just picked one of those things and tried it and worked on it? Sometimes you leave conference with being a little bit overwhelmed by all the good things, but if we just picked one thing, it's like in that previous general conference we had about the percentage of just changing the small things, the aggregate percentages that we can have. If we just

picked one thing to do differently, what would happen over time to us. It would slowly aggregate improvement. Yeah, what was that? The aggregate of marginal gains or something? There we go. I couldn't think of the rest of it. I'm like, come on, there's a phrase. The bicyclists that did tiny little things, elder done, I think. Yeah, elder done. So we have a fun chapter that follows 33, 34 is a fascinating one because if you look at verse two, we're now going to have the Lord talking specifically to the shepherds of Israel, not just to people in general, but this is the leadership, the people who should have

protected the flock. And so you can just wander down through three, four, five, and you just see the flock. And so you can just wander down through three, four, five, and you just see they've not done what shepherds do. They've not helped. They weren't acting like a Zee Kill being the watchman and helping in the way that they should have. Then you jump over to verse seven. And again, therefore you shepherds hear the word of the Lord. You get it again in nine, hear the word of the Lord. Verse 10, behold, I'm against the shepherds. Well, why? And you learn, I'm going to require my flock at their hand and cause them to cease being the flock.

Why? Because they didn't do it. But the good news is, for us, the end of verse 10, I will deliver my flock from their mouth. So the Lord is very interested in making sure we have good leaders and he's capable of making sure that that happens, but what a commentary on anyone who has leadership responsibilities. Yeah, I wanna make sure I understand.

So he speaking to shepherds of Israel, they are political leaders, they are religious leaders, they are both. Yes, I'd say all of the above, the downfall of Jerusalem didn't just happen because of one of those aspects. It happened because of all of that. We have religious leaders who aren't doing things, the political leaders who aren't doing things,

and even parents can be in this group of shepherds over their children, like the people just aren't leading the way that they need to lead. And anyone who has responsibility over others, I say, could fall into this category here. Yeah. He says, you eat the fat, you clothe with the wool. So you're taking all the perks of your leadership, but you're not helping the diseased. You're not strengthening any of them that are sick. You kill them that are fed. I mean, that's pretty bold.

And so you've not healed, you're not taking care of the sick ones. You're not going after the wandering ones? No, you've just been so focused on your own self that you've lost sight of what the purpose of leadership is and it's not about you, it's about them. Yeah, you do that in exact contrast to John chapter 10 where the Savior says, I know my sheep, I love my sheep, I lay down my life for my sheep. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But not the higherling runs away,

but I'm the good shepherd. Yeah. So to start the fun bit, just start looking at verse 11 and look at what the Lord says about himself. For thus say, the Lord God behold, I, even I, will both search out my sheep and seek them out. And then you get these beautiful verses of all the things he is going to do. You know, 13, I'll bring them out from the people and gather them out from the countries, and I'll bring them to their own land, and I'll feed them, and then 14, I'll feed them in good pasture, and 15, I'll feed my flock and cause them. I mean, wow, what a contrast to what we've seen the previous shepherds doing and now he's going to take it over and bring things around and teach us what a good shepherd really

does. So that's really fun. That is, I will feed them in good pasture on the high mountains. I'm circling all the eyes here. I will feed my flock. And it just makes me think of verses where he says, I can do my own work. So yeah, I mean, I'm thinking of 23rd Psalm 2. Leadeth me beside still waters, good pastures. Yeah, and you jump over to verse 22, some really beautiful imagery. I will save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey.

Be a good leader. If you have stewardship over anyone, this is an indictment to make sure you're doing your role or doing your job. And then if you jump over and look at verse 28, you'll see, and they shall no more be a prey. There's that word again to the heathen, either shall the beast of the land of power them, but they shall dwell safely and none shall make them afraid. So, you know, we kind of live in a day where lots of people have lots of different kinds of fears and lots of concerns about different parts of life, but how nice to be there, where we don't have to worry about that anymore. Yeah, we're in very safe hands, right? So really fun things I like chapter 34 too. It's a good one. It's a little more uplifting than the previous few. The previous ones. Ezekiel got

some good things to share with us. Jan, there's a dozen or so more chapters which we highlight. Well, for me, I particularly like 36 and 37. We just looked at 34, but 35 is really about again a destruction of another nation, it's a destruction of E-DM. And so again, we can just kind of see that as part of our other recognitions that other people will receive consequences for that. But 36 goes back to why has Israel been scattered, and then 37 is kind of a fun, I think, a dual prophecy chapter. There's lots of stuff that could apply to their people at the time, but also the second coming, and you can really see the uniting of different scriptural records there in 37.

And then we will eventually get to the prophecy of the temple. So about chapter 40 all the way through, the end is really all about this future temple, but it would be fun if we spend some time looking at chapter 47. So, you know, if we wanna jump over to 36 for just a second and kind of see if there's things in there. Okay, so let's have a look at 36. A couple verses that stand out to me. Verse 6, he

gets a kind of, as he could get a really bold commandment there to prophesy concerning the land of Israel. So say unto the mountains, into the hills, into the river, into the valleys. So lovely imagery of who I'm going to be speaking to. And then we have the Lord kind of saying, I have spoken with the consequences in my jealousy and in my fury. And hopefully people understand that God's jealousy and anger or jealousy is about covenants. It's not about any other kind of jealousy. And his fury is manifested in just natural consequences. And the Lord's kind of explaining verse seven, I've lifted up my hand. And here's all the things that are happening to the people around you and to you.

So the wicked and all of that. But we've kind of had a lot of that. So if we want to turn our page over, I'd just like to focus on the positive things. We know about the scattering, we know about the destruction by this time. We've had lots of that. But the cool thing is starting in verse 21, but I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel hath profane among the heathen, whether they went. Therefore, say into the house of Israel, thus say at the Lord God, I do not this for your sakes of house of Israel, but for mine holy names sake. So the Lord is interested in preparing away for the Son of God to come, to provide him with a place to be born and a place to preach. And so he's going to do this amazing

thing. And you start watching 23, 24, 25, 26 of what he's going to do to prepare a place for this covenant to continue and for the Messiah to be born into there. And I just love raises like at the end of verse 23, when I shall be sanctified in you, when I shall take you from among the heathen, gather you out of all countries, I will bring you into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water upon you and you shall be clean from all your filthiness and from all your idols and I will cleanse you and a new heart also. Well, I give you and a new spirit. Well, I put within you taking away that stony heart and give you a heart of flesh like wow, what language, but that's the process of sanctification of being redeemed. And this is what the Lord enjoys doing.

You know, his work on my glory to bring to pass the Immortality and Tournament of Man, but that involves repentance and changing and sanctifying. So I love that part in chapter 36. And Jen, this does feel like a dual prophecy that I'm preparing away for the Messiah to come, but also for the end days, the gathering of Israel. Yeah, and because we have the first coming and the second coming of the Messiah,

I think you can see both of them here. Got to get them to come the first time in order for him to come the second time. But either way, you can see it applies to both circumstances. Gather you out of all countries, yeah. That's a comforting message to these people. I'm sure. I hope so because they've had a rough time of it. This is rough living through all of this. And we do need messages of hope. And that's a real message of hope that the atonement is available. It encompasses all things and we can move past all things. Be changed. Yeah, and it sounds like they'll look back and they'll loathe their sins. They'll be changed to where they'll, he says in verse 31,

you'll remember your evil ways and you'll look back and you'll see what I see. Yeah. Tell us about 37, the dry bones. Well, one of the things that this just strikes me if you look at verse two. So he's looking in this valley and he sees there were very many in the open valley and low, they, the bones were very dry. And something I had just written in my margin as I've been thinking about these people and these bones was, I just wrote

no hope. Like that's really kind of a great way to describe people that don't have any hope. You're just kind of dried out and there's no vitality. And so what a fun question. And he said unto me, some of men can these bones live. And I answered, oh Lord God thou know. It's like what's he asking me for? Yeah, I don't know. You're God. But then liquidity has him do. And again, the savior does this often where he'll let other people perform the miracles

or make the prophecies. He doesn't always do everything himself. But he said unto me, prophesy upon these bones and say into them, oh, you dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. So if you connect the fact that they're very dry and they have no hope, well, what is the solution to having no hope, hear the word of the Lord? And then the Lord can cause these breath to enter and that vitality restored and you just see this cool resurrection of these dry bones returning.

The sinews and the flesh and the skin. Yeah, and ye shall live. Like, what better imagery about what the Lord offers us than that? Yeah, and I think how many of our listeners are going through things where they feel like they have dry bones. Yes. No hope. Nothing's ever going to be better. I'll bring it all back. That's beautiful. You know, we live in a dry climate in Utah. I think we all know about dry. I happen to be one that always has dry skin and dry mouth and dry lips and just living up here in this kind of harsh high elevation dry desert

environment. And so I can relate very well to just what's it like to feel moisturized and vital again and there's the word of the Lord. And Ezekiel gets to do it. Yeah. Yeah, he gets to take part in it. A Valley of Bones comes to life. I wanted to mention with this great story in Ezekiel 37, a talk from Elder Uptorf called the Infinite Power of Hope. I hope everyone will go look at this. You can, we'll have a link to it on our show notes, follow him.co, follow him.co. But man, this is a beautiful talk about hope and how you've mentioned Jan that these dry bones

can kind of represent someone without hope. President Uptorf says, the adversary uses despair to bind hearts and minds in suffocating darkness. Despair drains from us all that is vibrant and joyful and leaves behind the empty remnants of what life was meant to be. Despair kills ambition. It advances sickness, pollutes the soul and deadens the heart. This fits exactly, doesn't it? Despair can seem like a staircase that leads only and forever downward. Hope, on the other hand, is like the beam of sunlight rising up and above the horizon of our present circumstances. It pierces the darkness with a brilliant dawn, it encourages and inspires us

to place our trust in the loving care of an eternal heavenly Father who has prepared a way for those who seek for eternal truth in a world of relativism, confusion, and fear. He then talks about what hope is. He says, never surrender, never allow despair to overcome your spirit, embrace and rely upon the hope of Israel for the love of the Son of God, pierces all darkness, softens all sorrow, and gladens every heart. That's the infinite power of hope from Elder and Shorfinite. It kind of fits this story of these dry bones coming to life. It doesn't. And I just want to point out verse 11, as you're talking about that, and make this connection

with their loss of hope. He says, the bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say our bones are dried and our hope is lost. We are cut off our parts. And so you're quote from Elder Oedderth, how do we restore hope when we feel that way? The whole house of Israel is kind of filling that way. Such a great image, this valley of dry bones, and how are we going to get back from this and turn to the Lord and get focused on His word again, and let's get that life breeding back into you.

I love the Lord asked Ezekiel the question, hey, you think we could bring this back? He's like, uh, if you say so. Yeah, I have a question. When you take a people captive and you bring them to your place in Babylon, what do you have them do? Okay, farmland here in Willtax you, are they slaves servants, are they contributing to the national economy? Why would they take them there and keep them alive? Well, they are. So this group that goes out into the river bottoms, I suppose, is going to be used to help with the agriculture.

And yes, they would be seen as slaves in that sense, second-class citizens, but they're contributing to the economy. Also when we take Daniel's people over into Babylon's culture and court, you see them being put to work, they're being wise men, they're being used. So the point of taking these people is to take the best of a conquered nation and bring all those resources and utilize them yourself. They're not going to be just on their own autonomous and doing whatever they want. They're certainly going to be having to respond to the conquering nation. Yeah.

And they're not just held in a prison either. They're okay. Now get to work and we'll tax you and grow some stuff and we'll eat it. Yeah, we're going to try and assimilate you as best we can into producing for us so we can utilize your talents and your abilities for the benefit of our nation. And by taking you out of your own land, you're much less likely to rebel because you don't know the area. So, Nebuchadnezzar took what three different groups of captives

I believe back and took the best of everybody he left all the poor people behind So he's taking the working class the upper class the middle class and and is utilizing them for his benefit Yeah, and that's why Isaiah says babe. She'll rule over them because nobody who could either start a revolt or was very capable of leadership was left behind. That's really great that you're thinking about those Isaiah chapters because once you leave everyone back in Jerusalem, you don't bring any of the upper class or the educated or anything. You take all of those and leave everyone behind. And so then who do you have to lead you? You're really in a tough spot by that point in their society. Yeah, it sounded awful. Some of those chapters were reading before they'll go find them, they'll hunt them down in the caves and they'll die of pestilence back in 33, 27.

I was like, eh, what a verse. Yeah. Anyway, this chapter of hope leads right into our famous missionary verses, right? Yeah. So, you know, we have the two stick chapter verses there bringing in these two records. Now, we obviously have to be careful contextually about understanding how those people would have understood those verses as well as a modern interpretation, because we tend to go Bible Book of Mormon, but they don't have any of those

things. And so, they're not going to see it like that. And so a more contextual understanding is this plea to accept the messages of the prophets of the North. So Amos, Hosea, Isaiah, combined with those of the South, Micah, Jeremiah, Habakkuk. So for them, the house of Judah is the Southern Kingdom, and then the stick of Ephraim would be the Northern Kingdom. And we need to be careful and not overly do the application that we do today with Bible Book of Mormon because they just don't have those books, but they do have northern and southern. So this is that kind of unity that's been missing

between the two kingdoms for a long time since they split. A national reunification of the northern and the southern kingdom is one level of this. Yes. And then unifying all of their records between the different prophets that they have and being willing to accept the word. So that's how they would have understood it. But there's nothing wrong with the way that we understand it. But we just need to be careful and distinguish the two different understandings. Yeah, much like we did with Isaiah. Look at the different levels. distinguished the two different understandings. Much like we did with Isaiah, look at the different levels. There could be multiple filaments and applications.

Yeah, we love that. And how fun that the solution to the lack of hope is turning back to the word of the Lord. And then that verse 16 of what type of word of Lord are we talking about here? All of the words that have been available to both kingdoms is where you're going to find the rejuvenation and this hope for them. For us, of course, we have a lot more books of Scripture and that kind of thing.

So, on the first level, it's the reunification of this Northern and Southern Kingdom. And then the second level is going to be books of Scripture for Judah, the Bible, for Ephraim, the Book of Mormon. Join them to one one and they'll become one in nine hand. Yes, so your modern day point two. So I'd say first point, uniting the Kingdom, second point, uniting those Kingdom scriptures, and then for us, we're going to bring in all the other Bible Book of Mormon stuff after that. Well, I think that's one of the reasons prophets are so skilled, and particularly Isaiah that we look at and say, greater the words of Isaiah is because he was able to make a prophecy with multiple fulfillments, with a current one and a future one at the same time.

So, Ezekiel's no exception to that. He's doing the same thing. Yeah. And so, if you jump over and look at verse 22, you see some really specifics there. I will make them one nation, which is what we're hoping for in the land. It hasn't been there for hundreds of years now. Upon the mountain of Israel and one king, shall be king to them all, which hasn't happened for a long time. And they shall be no more to nations, neither shall they be divided into kingdoms anymore at all. So yeah, for them, the yearning for the days where they were unified kingdom where there was one king where you know, that's been around for a long time

and something that needs to be healed. And so, it's fun to see the Lord addressing them. Yeah, and hopefully their one king is the Lord. Yeah, gotta stop thinking the Assyrians, the Egyptians, whoever's your strongest ally. Saul, David, or Solomon, your king the Lord. Because I remember right when they first chose a king, didn't the Lord tell Samuel, they have rejected me, not you, they've rejected me. Yeah, and then you get verse 24 with this, David, my servant, shall be king over them, but this is that kind of genealogical line of David, which Christ comes through. What a way to revitalize

these dry bones by pushing them to the future and looking at things that they really have desired for a long time and haven't had. So a nice message to us. Let's look at our promises. Let's keep focusing on the things that Lord has promised for the future. It can really revitalize you and give you some hope. Yeah, go back to your patriarchal blessing. Yeah, not forget the promises and things that are coming. What did Elder Hitchor say once you can't understand the valleys of life, the pits of life, until you're in the mountains of future experience and you can look back and you can see he's

trying to give him a view from the future that one day you'll look back and you can see he's trying to give him a view from the future that one day you'll look back and you'll see all of this the way I see it. Yeah and so then the chapters that follow these ones we have some discussion about the battles before the second coming we have Gorgomegog mentioned Armageddon all of those and then we suddenly hit chapter 40 which is let's start on this temple. And so we get so much detail about the structure, the size, the rooms, the layout. You know, you just go chapter after chapter through this temple. The fun one for us to talk about would be in chapter 47. Well, their temple was destroyed. So this chapter 40 laying out this brand

new temple. This would be fun to read because they know their temple is gone Yeah, and their temple symbolize the presence of God amongst them to have God leave Ezekiel even talks about that in some of those previous chapters that the temple is no longer the house of the Lord because they've defiled it He's gone and therefore it's burned to the ground and then to give them the hope of the Lord because they've defiled it. He's gone. And therefore it's burned to the ground. And then to give them the hope of a new one where God can come back and dwell is quite exciting for those poor dry bones. Let's get some hope going. Those poor dry bones. Okay, so you have Ezekiel, he's coming out on verse 1 in chapter 47 to the door of the house. So he gets to look out the front and the waters issued out. And so this water goes out eastward. And then you watch a zeal kind of

interacting with the levels of this water. And in verse 3 it starts with his ankles. And then you have it coming to his knees. And then it goes to his loins. And then in verse five, you're now swimming in a river that could not be passed over any other way. And then you get this great question. Son of man has thou seen this. And then he's like, well, yeah. And brings him out into the return of the brink of the river. And then you see this in verse eight, they go out to the east country, down into the desert,

into the sea, and the waters are healed. That saltiness of everything is healed. Everything liveeth and moveeth. So we just had all those dry bones, we just watched everything become revitalized. And now we're talking about water, which is what makes everything vivid and green and not dry. And the healing that this living water brings and the word of God is often described as living water. Yeah, Jesus himself said in John, John 8. And it's interesting that it's fresh water.

So it's living water and the dead sea is not fresh water. It's what needs to be healed. It's like below sea level, right? The dead sea? Yes. So that is a latter day prophecy that the dead sea will be healed. This is a latter day occurrence that water will come out from under the temple, like a spring or something.

Yeah. Some really cool things to think about. You know, in Utah and the west out here We're in the middle of a terrible drought and so we can kind of relate to this shrinking of reservoirs and shrinking of seas and the great Salt Lake, especially is on its way out really and And that's very similar to the Dead Sea and the salty content But when the water departs the salt is all left and you still have a desert and you still have a place So it's fascinating to me that he's not just describing the healing of the sea

But the desert around it and everything about it that it needs this healing It's fun to think about what what that water is. I mean there's so many things you could choose the word of God or Covenant or temple Relationships and the eternal families and the way God heals things. But I don't know that you can find any better imagery than you find in Ezekiel with a lot of this. It's just powerful. Yeah, that out of the temple will come healing. It'll cover the earth and it'll heal anything it touches. Yeah, so we love that, love that chapter. Yeah, for it to come out from under the

temple is pretty cool. Look to the temple when when you're looking for that hope. Hmm, I like that, Jan, look to the temple for that hope. Jan, Dr. Martin, what a great day going through Ezekiel. How fun. I really see this book differently now. I think our listeners would be interested in your story as both a Bible scholar and a believing latter-day saint. What's that journey been like for you? I think I've had a very unique journey. I know that when you read my bio before, it's kind of funny because there's this physical education, exercise physiology side to my life, which was my first bachelor's and my first master's. But then I switched over, did a second master's in early modern history, and then now Bible translation. So, I have a broad academic set of experience that goes from physiology to history to

scripture. And so I feel like I've had an opportunity to be quite educated in a wide variety of important things. What happens with education is it gives you a chance to look at the details of things. One of my very favorite classes as an undergrad was anatomy, because I was looking at the human body under every little tiny bit of it. I got to see every muscle, every bone, everything. And that was a spiritual experience, because I learned that this body of ours is way to organize to have been an accident. So for me, it was a testifying experience. But the same thing

happens as I've gone into history and gone into scripture and how we translate scripture and how we got our English scriptures, especially because I look at words. I'm a kind of a word nut. And I look at a word like adamant. And I'm like kind of a word nut and I look at a word like adamant and I'm like, well what does that mean and where did it come from and how did it get in the scriptures and what is it's the logical meaning and suddenly I'm like minutely looking at something. But when you start following it back you just have these spiritual experiences that are helping you recognize where the Lord's hand is in all of this, and that none of this history,

none of this Bible translation was accidental, and that the Lord is behind it in motivating it. And so my journey has been quite fascinating academically, but on every level of it, I have found my testimony being strengthened by the detail and the small things and the stuff that is just too organized and too well planned to be coincidental. And so for me, it doesn't always happen that way. Plenty of academics go in different directions with their faith, but for me, it's been revealing, it's been confirming, my education has strengthened me, it has done everything positive, but I've looked at it that way and allowed that to happen.

There's been a choice for me. So it's been a fun journey. I've learned lots and it's been great. Some people out there know that I did not get married in my 20s, like a lot of Latter-day Saints do. I got married in my 40s, which is a little bit more unusual. And even in that journey of trusting the Lord's promises, of getting through 23 years of dating,

which is a torture on its own self, I didn't date for that long of a time. Again, even those experiences have taught me that the Lord is in the details, that He had a plan for me, that I could trust Him, that His promises were real, and that I could move forward with hope, and even when circumstances didn't match

what I was expecting, he had it covered, and he got me, and he had me in his hands, and I was okay. And so even those journeys have strengthened my testimony. So I have a very strong testimony of God, and my education and my personal experiences have just confirmed him as a reality for me. Awesome, John, what a fun day.

Yeah, change the book of Ezekiel for me. And boy, I've got some great notes here. Remember our past with peace. That is an adamant for me. That's a gem. That's a diamond. Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And I'm also eager to get a copy of and they shall grow together the Bible in the Book of Mormon. I think our listeners will be blessed by

that too. Yeah, there's lots of great scholarship in there to help us understand the connection between the Bible and the Book of Mormon. And you know, I hope I contribute something very helpful to second E5-5, which can be a troubling chapter. So it's worth your time. Well, thank you, Dr. Jan Martin for being here. I'm sure this isn't the last time we'll see you. Hope not. I'd love to come again another time.

Love it. Let's do. We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sonson and our sponsors, David and Verless Sonson. And we hope all of you will join us next week. We have another episode of Follow Him. We have an amazing production crew. We want you to know about David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Nielsen, Will Stoten, Crystal Roberts, and Al Kuwadra. Thank you to our amazing

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