Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Genesis 24-27 -- Part 2 : Dr. Camille Olson

Episode Date: February 20, 2022

Dr. Camille Fronk Olson returns and instructs regarding the importance of covenantal marriage, how the Matriarchs and Patriarchs allowed trials to cause them to grow closer to the Lord, and how the people in the Old Testament allow us to see their need for redemption.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/episodesFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producers/SponsorsDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: MarketingLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Rough Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Transcripts/Language Dept/French TranscriptsAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. Hey, Camille, can I ask you a quick question before we move on from 24. We're in Rebecca Meets Isaac. Can we just talk about that really quick? Yes. I'm interested in what you have to say about what she does here. Who is that? And the servant says, this is my master, you know, it's Isaac. Therefore, it's just instantaneous. She took a veil and covered herself. We have so many different interpretations about what a veil could symbolize. This is the tradition where brides wear veils today. I think that is interesting. In the next generation, Leah will wear a veil when she's married to Jacob

and Jacob won't be able to see her face and thinks he's marrying Rachel, right? You might consider modesty, but it's not like they were them all the time. Obviously, when she was getting water, the servant could see her right there. Some have even suggested she was maybe dusty and dirty and she didn't want the first time she sees her new husband to be. Let me get cleaned up first before we see. Yeah, it's been a long trip. It's been a long trip. But it is an instinctive thing. Perhaps that is part of her whole attire. This is how she wants to present herself to begin with. I don't think we need to see negative in in veils. I think we see that with so many today of our Muslim sisters who wear veils

and how beautiful. And that could be as far as what was beauty than too. I don't know. And I do like the little end at very the very end of 67. Yes, read that. Isaac was comforted after his mother's death. EG, he misses Sarah's influence in his life. He brought her into his mother's Sarah's tent. They had their own space, her tent. I think I've heard whole talks given about

and he loved her. The love is a verb idea. Maybe Isaac the same revelation, the Lord is in this thing. All right, but he makes the choice to love her. Is it a feeling? Is it a decision? And the thing of it is he's just looked at her. He hasn't even there. I haven't been sending communications. They had saying, let me tell you about this woman I'm bringing home to you. A range marriage is love was not even part of the equation, but they grew into love. We don't have the details of that story much. I mean, as far as

their life, all we know is that it's going to be 20 years before she's able to have before she's able to have it get pregnant, to have a child. Chapter 25, it goes into like the descendants of Ishmael. And so we get 12 sons, 12 princes. He was, had a big family. We're going to learn later. He had daughters and those will become important. So chapter 25 looks to me like a, we need to tell you that God fulfilled his covenant

Abraham. There is a lot of kids. And that's part of it. So let's keep that. I just think that is an important part. It's part of the covenant. And verse 17, again, reflective that Isaac was aware. I mean, who's keeping this record before it's it's record? We've got where when Ishmael dies. And he's gathered unto his people. Same phrase. Yeah, he's not forgotten. He's not forgotten. And going, you're saying into the spirit world, can you see a reunion with Abraham? And I think Sarah, I don't want to go back to Sarah had love for Ishmael too, but that's another story. And it says, look at verse 19,

and these are the generations of Isaac, Abraham's son, and Abraham began Isaac. There you go. Yeah. Sure verse, sure, genealogy. Because an Isaac is 40 years old when he took Rebecca to wife, you get the idea Rebecca was far younger than that when she would have married. That's typical.

And they are praying in verse 21 because she is barren. It sounds like he's the one in treating the Lord and Rebecca conceives. So you don't know how much is happening here before that 20 years. Let me suggest, can we just, can I just flip over to chapter 26 and do a little bit there and say this could have been during that years? That this are not necessarily written in chronological order, but because we're going to get on to those children here pretty quickly and that story take off. Let's just take a look at chapter 26 for a minute. So we can we do that? There's no evidence as far as the children going with them. This could be later, but there's a famine sometime. And that happens so frequently. And we saw it with Abraham and Sarah that ended up

going to Egypt. And the Lord tells them, in this case, you don't need to go that far. You can just go over there to Felistia and to Garar. There in that context we get our first hint. And I just think what this have happened earlier. And I don't know. I don't know Lord's way of thinking. But verse three, what is the Lord telling Isaac? I will be with thee and I will bless thee here in the land of the Philistia. For unto you and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries. This is a foreshadowing of what's going to come for the descendants of Abraham. And I will perform the oath which I swear unto Abraham, my Father, and I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven and will give unto thy seed all these

countries. And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed." I mean, what is it? And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed. I mean, what is it? To Abrahamic covenant. Still chapter 26 verse 24, the Lord appeared unto him the same night and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham, my Father, fear not, for I am with thee and will bless thee and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake. And he built an altar and there's the verse and he pitched a tandeny dug a well. But somewhere in here it seems like that covenant is bestowed specifically on him. For our listeners could you elaborate on

Philistia and what that is and what that land becomes? All right for the famine they go to an area called Philistia, which is coastal there. The Felistines live there. And later, when the Greeks conquer that area, and the Romans are in that area, you can see the change from the languages called Palestine. And so that whole land takes on the name that had originally been Felistia. It was kind of a derogatory for the people of the Jews

who were there to call it by Palestine, but it took on that name, and that name still continues today. Our Palestinian friends are some of our favorites. Are they not? Here's just one incident and I don't have a whole lot to say about it. It's another parallel with Abraham and Sarah when they were in Egypt because of the famine. It's just kind of quirky because it just keeps coming up and you're not saying, what do I do with this? Because for some reason, and this one is a little

different because there's no indication here that the Philistines are so anxious, one of them to marry Rebecca, that they would be willing to kill her husband to do so, as was the case down in Egypt with Abraham and Sarah. All we can see is they see that Rebecca is beautiful. This might be another reason that I might think this is earlier in Rebecca's life rather than later, but I don't know. Verse seven, the man of the place asked him of his wife and he said, she's my sister. For he fear to say she is my wife, less than the man of the place should kill me for Rebecca because she was fair to look upon. I don't know if he's learning this from his dad and just say, boy, watch out because self-preservation here.

This sounds very familiar. It is. But what is different about this is no one's coming to take Rebecca, like was in the case of Sarah, and the Philistines are out looking, the king of the Philistines of Bimilek is looking out the window,

and he sees, quote, eyes exporting with Rebecca. It's that word, not sure exactly, but it's kind of like they're behaving not like brother and sister. Can we say that? And and a Bimilek said, wait a minute, this isn't your sister. She's your wife.

He said, why'd you lie to me? Yeah. As Isaac explains, a've been like verse 11 charges as people saying, don't touch this man or his wife. The Lord is blessed him. Leave him alone. And as long as Isaac and Rebecca are there, they just wax great. Yeah, verse 13. And become great. And all this flocks and herds, I just wonder, see, that's what I'm wondering if this could have been during that 20 years. So maybe yeah, we're not getting exactly right.

I don't know, because I don't know where to place it chronologically, but it would fit there. It would fit there. Yeah, because there's no mention of the twins here. Not until you get to the very last two verses, and then that just comes out of the blue. So I'm going to keep those two verses and can we go back to chapter 25? It's fascinating to me that we've got

Katera all these kids. We've got Ishmael all these kids and then the one that we're counting on. 20 years. Yeah. I just think it is fascinating how often the idea of these incredibly important, strong, good women who are barren. It happens. It happens in the next generation with Rachel. And you go, well, Leah isn't barren, but she is barren as far as the real love of her husband and feeling of acceptance as much in that clan. And in every single case, in those times of real emptiness, that's when each of these women seem to really cement

a relationship with God that I wonder if would not have happened in quite the same way. I have just learned from personal experience that sometimes when blessings don't come in the way you expect or as when you expect and and you are an outlier in any way and you go to church and maybe church doesn't quite connect with what you're going through because it assumes you're like everybody else. That's when you start seeing, God is aware of you. to Rebecca before she has children, it is not the fact that she is born children that makes her now a value to the Lord. She's already a value to him. And the fact that she's having a communication with the Lord and gets an answer as clear and as precise and detailed and informative as this one would

indicate to me prayer is not an anomaly for Rebecca. She knows the Lord and she knows his voice. We don't have those verses, but if you read between the lines, I think her heart, she's been pouring out her art. We read in chapter 25 verse 21 Isaac, and treating the Lord on her behalf and Isaac's been praying. I think his prayers. He's You know, he's not getting another wife like his father did. We don't see any other wives for Isaac and he doesn't have other children. Yeah, the genealogy stops with Isaac. That's such an important principle is your difficulties turning you to the Lord. Yeah, I like to tell my students the first syllable of testimony is test and the first symbol of question is quest. You can

ask a question of Siri or Google in an instant, but a quest is a long, arduous search. And we don't like that kind of answer, especially in a world where we do have Siri and Google to give it to us right then. I tell my students, I'm my worry about Gen Z as you want Google speed answers to golden questions. Ah, that's good. That's good. Instant messages, right? I'm like, Lord, just DM me. Just text me.

In the morning, the Lord left me on red. I can't believe this. I can see the dot, dot, dot, but it's sure taken a long time. I can see. Okay. All right. I love it. Let's get into her prayer and the answer because this is going to change. This is the rest of our story today. Verse 22 of chapter 25, Rebecca has conceived.

And there's nothing to tell her that it's not going to be a single birth. She's what is going on? Why am I thus? She is struggling. There's some major discomfort going on now that she's, I'm obviously talked to some other women and saying this just doesn't seem normal. We have twin boys.

Oh, yes. I remember my wife said to her doctor, she said, this one feels different. And he said, oh, it's your fourth, you're just, you know, you probably haven't had a girl, you know, and she's like, no, this definitely feels different. And by the end, it was two seven pound baby. Ooh.

Yeah. For twins, that's really heavy, isn't it? Yeah, it was. Wow. They seem to be these fetuses that are getting well acquainted in the womb. They're perfect. Yeah.

They struggled together within her. Get away from me. Get. They've started to really develop their personalities already. So yes, she asks the Lord, why am I thus? And she went to inquire of the Lord. And we just pause over that. We don't get this captured in scripture often enough, but it's going on. We just can't assume that other women aren't praying and getting answers and having that

personal relationship. It's too easy to imagine them going through a prophet husband. She inquired of the Lord. She went. And the Lord tells her, now look at this, I don't get answers in paragraphs, you know, typically. Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from libels. Ah, you wonder how often, I mean, how normal having twins, I mean, if she had even known anyone, and women that it had twins,

and the one people shall be stronger than the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger. I think how do we have this in scripture? Rebecca has reported the Lord's answer to her. And she knows what has to happen. And she knows what has to happen. And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her room.

Kind of like, that's almost from the midwives' point of view. Well, what do you know? Yeah. Because Rebecca already knew. The first came out red. We're going to see some corollary with that in a minute. Yes. And all over like a hairy garment. I mean, this is, I mean, I don't know all over. This is some very child. Yes. And they called his name Isah. And after that came his brother out. and his hand took hold on Issa's heel. This is going to be the reason that Jacob gets his name. And his name was called Jacob.

And this is where we find out Isaac with three score years old when she buried him. So 40 years old when he was married, 60 years old when they had the children, there's 20 years there. In Hebrew, Jacob's name literally means he shall follow at the heel. And that's where that idea of a supplantor or an overreacher. But I think interesting too, from the revelation, Rebecca knew that Jacob would surpass his brother to receive the birthright. He would be the stronger one. And we're talking probably in a sense spiritually, especially initially. So there the boys are born. And right after we start getting them, they're growing up and we

start learning about them. Verse 27, Issa was that cunning hunter like unto John by the way. Yes, my cunning hunter coho. This is a good quality. He's good at hunting and I'm telling you the family needs that. He's a man of the field. He's an outdoorsman. You can just kind of start getting a little bit of personality in. You can just see it's physical prowess and strength and...

He had the four-wheel drive, Kimmel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And Jacob was a plane man. I mean, that is about as non-plastic description as you can find. But put a footnote with that, it's the same word used to describe Noah in Genesis 6.9.

It's the very same word. Perfect in all his generation. Perfect. Oh, see, you can see in this footnote, it says Hebrew, whole, complete, perfect plain simple. It's the same word. That's interesting. Yeah, it is. Why wouldn't you use perfect there? I don't know. That's interesting. Yeah, it is. Why wouldn't you use perfect there? I don't know. I don't know. I like how it says he was intense too. Sorry, dad joke.

Yeah. Well, he's intense. Yeah. Noah, it says Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations. And the same word here for 27. A plain man dwelling in tents. He's a good kid. And he's different from his brother.

I don't know. Maybe I don't know if he's just more sensitive or they're different and they don't really see eye-to-eye and a lot of stuff, right? He's going hunting again. Yeah, yep. And Jacob says, I'll stay home and fix dinner because he can make a mean bowl of soup. I'm telling you, we find that out here.

That's coming up. First 28, Isaac loved Esau because he did eat of his vanisand. That's a good reason, don't you? But it seems like Isaac related to Esau and appreciated so much. Some of the tales, perhaps that he told of being out there. But Rebecca loved Jacob and we I don't know. I just don't want to make this so much of a. That means Rebecca didn't like Esau and Jacob didn't like Jacob or Isaac didn't like Jacob. I think probably every parent has some ways that they can relate more to one

child and another but the love and what they're be willing to do. Yeah, I get that. I can see that. Yeah, that you relate more to one because they're more like you. You're like, oh, that one was, he looks like me, he acts like me versus a different child who you're going, where did you come from? I don't know if Rebecca might have felt a particular connection with Jacob, just knowing what she knew and maybe maybe had a little bit more of Sfarah saying, I got to make sure he

stays on the straight narrow because he's the one the Lord has chosen to do this. Okay, here's the one of our major incidents here, right? Jacob's sod potage. Sod is just one of those little old words that a boil or cook. This is not soup made out of dirt or the lawn. Two square feet of grass. Yes, yes. And it's so fun that this Hebrew word potage,

why do you just say soup, but it is potage as the same three consonant root as does red, as does edam. It's yoddolat mem or ydm and the y sound is kind of that. But it is kind of this play on words that is really very fun. Feed me the some of that red potage. I think the reason potage is in italics is you almost didn't have to say that. That's what the translators added because it's almost the same word.

It is rad and it is this thick, stewish kind of potage with lentils. Give us a little background on why in King James some words are italicized. I think this is such an important thing and I love the James version of the Bible. This is one of the reasons I love it. When the translators were going through the Bible, if they'd come upon a phrase or sentence where a part of speech was missing, or it didn't make quite sense, and if you've ever translated from another language, you can see that there aren't parallel and you will not oftentimes have to insert other words to make it make sense in a different language. They would put it in italics, not so you would emphasize it, but so that you would know they have added it.

What is this with red? I mean, are they just saying he was red? We made red soup. We called him red. He was red. This soup is red. We We called him red. He was red. This soup is red. We nicknamed him red. They named him red. But I think it is. It's kind of like red symbolizes Isa. But his descendants in the Old Testament

are called the Edomites. And you will lose that if you don't put this connection. That these are the descendants of Isa. Yeah, it doesn't. They're not the Isaites they're the Edelmites because of that red associated with him. Yep. Okay, so here's the situation. Esau's been out hunting. He knows how to find food. I don't know how far away from home they are or if they're kind of close by, but is he comes after being out there in the fields and the hunting all day, he's hungry. I know you can, you know, those days and he can smell the soup. Oh, it's good. And he says, I am faint. And Jacob goes, I mean,

I think they've had this little bantering back and forth probably their whole lives and he goes, okay, I mean, I think they've had this little bantering back and forth probably their whole lives and he goes, okay, obviously Jacob's been thinking has thought a lot about the birthright. And now he's going to get it because he's the oldest, but I would really like it. I want that added responsibility. I would do it. And maybe he sees Esau doesn't take it as seriously. And he says, sell me this day thy birthright. And And Esa said, behold, I'm the point to die. I mean, come on. Esa's not going to die.

You're not going to die. Yeah, that's I am dying of hunger. What is the birth right? It's more than just, oh, I'll give you a father's blessing. It's a hard thing in this story, especially to see if we're talking

about multiple blessings or all the same. There is a birthright blessing that it seems families that this time all had and it typically went to the oldest son. The son that gets the birthright gets twice as much as any of the others, but the idea is there's the responsibility with it that if down the line, so the father dies and you've got a widowed mother, you take care of that mother as long as she lives. That's why you have that. That's why you have it.

You have sisters that something happens and they don't marry or something. You're responsible for the entire clan and you have that double portion specifically to help them. It's not for you, like, I don't want to minimize a priesthood blessing, but it's not just, oh, I'll give you a blessing. It is temporal responsibilities that go with it. A priesthood blessing is what we've seen. It's oftentimes combined with the birthright. Some have argued it doesn't have to be. Three things, the birthright blessing, a father's blessing, and then the blessing that would say you're in charge of the covenant, you're succeeding in being the guardian of the

Abrahamic covenant for your generation, and the responsibility of being the leader of the covenant people, a spiritual assignment of leadership responsible for all families of the covenant. All that was given to Isaac. It's possible all three of those are going to be given to Jacob, but it's also possible. It's three different things. And birthright is a separate thing. And Esau and Jacob are kind of fighting it out for it here. I don't know if this will be helpful. I am reading a book that is nothing to do with the Bible.

It's Ron Churnow's history on the warburgs. An incredible Jewish family of bankers, Germany, and then some of them were in the United States. And the second generation of that incredibly strong, bright, genius, and wealthy family, the two oldest sons, Abby and Max, Abby was the oldest. He didn't want the birthright. He did not want to take over as head of the bank in the next generation.

And he made a deal with his brother Max when they were younger. And he said, look, I'll let you take that. You be the head of the bank. As long as you buy me books, the rest of my life, all I want are books. And he actually did. He sold the birthright for books, but he got him for the whole life.

And Max had no idea how much of a reader, a scholar, a student that Abby was thousands upon thousands of books every single year. So I always think Esau could have done better and said I could at least have a bowl of soup every day for the rest of my life for the birthright. But I think some as you can just see, it did not mean. At this point in Esau's life, it meant nothing. That added responsibility and stuff. It didn't care about it.

In fact, we read at the end of verse 34, he despised his birthright. And verse 32, what prophet shall this birthright do to me? Is like, see the value? Yeah, I don't see. It's more responsibility than it is probably. So it's not really a trick here. It's Jacob saying, look, I, I want this. You don't obviously don't care about it. So. And the fact that he would do so cavalier and say, yeah, for that bowl of soup, I'll take it. You can have it. You can have it. Camilla, if it's okay, I'm going to read something from the manual.

If you're at home with teenagers, this is a great little lesson. It says, as you read Genesis 25, 29 to 34, consider why Esau might have been willing to give up his birthright in exchange for a meal. What lessons can you find for yourself in this account? And then this, is there any, quote, potage that's distracting you from blessings that are more valuable? What are you doing to focus on and appreciate those blessings? So I just think I do this all the time. I have an opportunity to spend time with my kids. And I am on my phone,

right? I'm on social media. I have a chance to build a relationship with my wife. And I'm on social media. I have a chance to build a relationship with my wife and I'm watching whatever on TV. We sell our birthright in a way for a mess of potage. Things that don't have any real value. It's become a common expression, isn't it? You've traded that for a mess of potage. But you know at the moment, that's all that Esau cared about. And that is having eyes to see those eternal kind of eyes and trust in what the Lord has promised to sacrifice what we want right now for something that we would care about and will make a difference in the long run.

I think about parents generally, parents do that all the time. And Esai, I think, is going to learn that one day, but he hasn't figured that out quite yet. Jacob seems to be much more in tune to that, doesn't he? What is that old saying, John? There's nobody who puts on their tombstone. I wish I had spent more time at the office. Right. Yeah. Yeah. We do it all the time.

We do it every day. So I think that'd be a good activity for everyone to do listening is to just kind of stop and go, how do I sell the most important blessings for very trivial things? I loved what Camille said. I think another way that is put that we hear a lot is to trade what we want most for what we want in the moment.

I've got this quote from then Elder Dalinate jokes. October 1985 General Conference. He said the contrast between the spiritual and the temporal is also illustrated by the twins Eson Jacob and their different attitudes toward their birthright. The first born Esau despised his birthright. Jacob, the second twin, desired it. Jacob valued the spiritual while Esau sought the things of the world. When he was hungry, Esau sold his birthright for a massive potage. Behold, he explained, I'm at the point to die and what profit shall this birthright do to me. Many Esa's have given something of eternal value in order to satisfy a momentary hunger for the things of the world. I've got this one from Elder Bednar. He talks about digital distractions.

He said, often, we neglect eternal relationships for digital distractions, diversions, and detours that have no lasting value. It's it it is easier to see it in an ancient life than in my own though. Yeah. Those silly Israelites, my goodness. Oh, he saw I would never get that. How dare you? Okay, we're going to go over it's chapter 26 to the end of chapter 26 because we looked at the beginning of it earlier, right? And look at the last two verses. So we got some hint as far as

Esau was with the birthright. Now look at verse 34 and this is the one that just breaks Isaac and Rebecca's heart. ESA was 40 years old when he took to wife Judith, the daughter of Bery, the Hittite, and Basha Moth, the daughter of Elon, the Hittite. He married two Hittite women. And you hear Rebecca say, what good is my life? I mean, why are they doing this? Again, here's the genealogy, right? We got down to Isaac. Now we have two sons, and here's the first one to marry, and it's not good.

The implication from everything else we read and their grief is the fact that they are not believers, they would not value the covenant. They would have more of the influence on Esau to take him away than to bring them into the covenant. And which could be kind of part of that, the way he's responded to the birthright too. I mean, I don't know.

You can see some of that almost a little bit of rebellion in him right now that he's going, I don't need this. I don't need this. But Isaac and Rebecca have not crossed him off. And definitely the Lord has not. I mean, there's going to be many people listening who are going to say, that's me, my children are not making decisions that I wish they would. Is it my fault?

Right? You've got Isaac and Rebecca. Here's the greats. These are the greats of what we'd say are faithful people. And they've got a son just isn't interested. And I don't know if there's comfort in the fact that, hey, you're in the same boat as some of the greats when your children say, I'm not interested. Well, that's why I think I have to go a little bit into chapter 28.

I mean, this story is not over right here. Yeah. Don't give up on the eSaus. It doesn't end with chapter 27 because that's what our reading assignment for this week is. There's more and especially we see Rebecca in this. She does not let go. You remember, she's going to send Jacob up to her family.

She's keeping Esau close by. This is a mother's love and I can't help but think that they will continue to have influence. I will hope to prove by the end of this that Esad does change. We can all change. And again, like Rebecca, I waited how many years before she had children, it's going to be how many years before she sees. And maybe it's not in this life Change is possible in the next life It may it just keeps going and we just keep with them and we love them Because there are sons and daughters of God and he loves them

There is redemption. That's this whole thing, right? All these stories if we had a family that everything worked out and all their kids just write in line and stuff and you could almost come away and say, they don't need the atonement, they don't need cries, they're doing just fine, boy, wish they could raise my kids. No, and it isn't easy. There aren't easy answers. And it isn't easy. There aren't easy answers. In my mind, I think when Jacob and Esau have that future reunion that she got to see it, you know, that she got to see it from her seat wherever she was. Wherever that was. Wherever that was.

And that's genuine. Okay, chapter 27. And if there's the hardest chapter in Genesis, this could be it. This is a tough one. There's a lot of questions, and I would say right at the get go, I don't think we have the full story. And our tendency is to make one person the good person and one person the bad person. And we've got a family who's struggling and trying to find answers. Right. I'd see Rebecca is protecting her family and her posterity. Maybe Isaac is thinking, ah, let's just see if we can do something more for Issa and he'll come to help you with it. I mean, you know, they care. They care. We start chapter 27 and Isaac is old. He would be about a hundred

years old now because right, Esa is 40 when he marries and and Isaac was 60 when the boys were born. So whatever age means, but it's old. It's that still is old there. They've taken away his chariot license. His eyes are dim, he cannot see, he cannot see. And he calls, Esa, his eldest, and he said, I still love the meat. Yep, I still love the meat. I know I'm going to die. It's kind of like he feels like his death is pretty soon. Therefore, I take thy weapons and go get me some of that venison in verse three. Verse four, bring it back to me that

my soul may bless thee before I die. Rebecca hears that and she immediately thinks he's going to give the blessing and maybe the one that she was told in the revelation should go to Jacob. in the revelation should go to Jacob. That's her interpretation, and she runs. We know this about her, and that fast, she has got Jacob. She still has it. And she calls Jacob and says, you know, look, this is what your father said. Go out and you go get some head from the flock,

and I'm gonna fix that Savory meat for him that fast and then you go in and tell him that you're Esa I mean this just everything about it just feels like now. Why are we doing this? Yeah, why are we deceiving Isaac? Why is this happening? Yeah, he says he's going to bless Esa and he wants verse 10. thou shalt bring it to thy father that he may eat, that he may bless thee before his death. She wants that. And Jacob says, well, he can't see me, but Esa, my brother is a hairy man. And I'm a smooth man. He'll know. I'll know. And I'll look like a deceiver. I mean, he's worried he doesn't want to even give the appearance of doing something that could be evil. And she says, look, put it on me. I'll

take it. I'll take it. I don't know. I mean, is this justification? Is this inspiration? Is this administering and helping where her husband might be not being as strong as he typically would be? Is this helping to enable him to do what is the right thing to do? It just feels uncomfortable. When you pointed out that revelation, these two nations are in thy womb. She knows. Genesis 25, 23, I'm going to write that in as a cross reference here that she's she knows that. She knows that. And I always ask the question, I just go, did she ever tell that to Isaac? A lot of times we're given information and we're told not to tell. That's not for others. And that would only make the the conflict between Jacob and Esau worse.

If she's out there saying, I've known boys that since before you were born, you know? Yeah, we're gonna see how that works with Joseph. That doesn't work out very well. Doesn't work very well. That's exactly right. But speaking of that, this is just one of those fascinating things I have just played around with for a long time.

Because we always focus on the fact that she's gonna take the skins of kids of goats and put it on the hands and the smooth of Jacob's neck and I go, bye. Golly, he's a here. Esa is one here, so die. If he's like the goats, man, but look, verse 15, Rebecca took goodly remant of her eldest son, Esa, which she had in the house and put them on Jacob the younger. Now let me tell you, this is one of those early Jewish from the midrash, the rabbinic traditions that the early rabbis taught about. I think it's an interesting one. In that rabbinic tradition, Esa's wonderful garments, as they were translated, goodly garments, were the high priestly raiment in which God had clothed Adam, which had been handed down to Noah,

Shem, Abraham, Isaac, and finally to Esau as Isaac's firstborn. Now, I start playing with that and I just go, wait a minute, remember what? It was an animal skin. It's an animal, it's hairy, and it symbolizes Christ. It symbolizes his life and sacrifice. And remember, there was a covering that Noah had that his sons were jealous of.

We don't know a whole lot that's going on there. Remember, it is Joseph the covenant son that's going to get, we translated code of many colors, but in Hebrew, you don't know what it is. It's something. We don't know this code. It's a covering. Okay. Now, stay with me here. In Zachariah, chapter 13, verse 4, the prophet Zachariah, I know, we don't usually quote that, but I've warns against false people who are playing false prophets because they wear a rough garment with the intent to deceive. Was that a way you recognized a representative of the Lord? Elijah had such a rough garment. Remember Christ in the sermon on the Mount, he said to beware of false prophets because they are wolves in sheep's

clothing. I mean, I just play random with this and I just go, was this, I'm not saying the very same garment that Adam was given turn up, but there was something, I'm not saying the very same garment that Adam was given, turn out, but there is something, there is something about this royal or goodly or wonderful raiment and the rabbis connected it with what Adam and Eve had been given. It's kind of an interesting one. That is, it's cool. Anyway, I think that's kind of fun. How do we unpackage this? What do we do? Would the Lord ever honor a blessing, especially a blessing of being over his priesthood if it was done by deceit? Can you trick the Lord?

Does the Lord stoop to being a trickster? I mean, all those kind of things, you start seeing where we run into some, we can attribute false attributes to God. I love Robert J. Matthews, and I don't know if either of you ever got to know him, but I got to give him a ride from the Salt Lake Airport to BYU once, just the two of us. And I treasure that memory that was fun. So I love what his explanations and how he, let me read to you what he said, how could Jake have get a different patriarchal blessing through deceit and it be legitimate?

We wish we had a more complete account of what really happened. We do not get additional help from the JST in this instance. Don't you think that's interesting of all the JST? Joseph Smith translation? Nothing on this chapter. I'll add a comment by Joseph Fielding Smith on the subject of patriarchal blessings. President Smith said this is still Brother Matthews. There is a difference between the words of a blessing and the actual realization and reception of the promises stated in that blessing. The Lord would not have been

obligated to fulfill the words of Isaac if Jacob and Esau didn't get the blessing that each deserved. So in answer to the question, how can Jacob get a legitimate different patriarchal blessing through deceit? I would answer, he can't, and he didn't. Isn't that great? I got that quote from this lovely book that just came out edited by Daniel Bellnap and Aaron Shade. And this is a chapter on Isaac and Jacob by Aaron Shade. Great, great resource. Both of are coming on our show, hopefully later this year. So the Lord isn't deceived here.

Isaac may be, but the Lord isn't. The Lord isn't. I wonder too, how many times we've seen in different circumstances that women are in, that because of what their options were, they did some things that might be considered trickery. Let me just remind you of some. Well, one that's later on, David's first wife, Mikal, when Saul was sending his men to come and kill David. She got David out the window and she stuffed a pillow in his bed. When the man came to kill David, she said, Oh, he's in there sick.

I don't know. That's sent him away. I guess they couldn't kill him when he was sick. But there's that one. How about the midwives, Schifrin Pooa, when Pharaoh told them to kill all the baby boys as soon as they deliver them. And they said, Oh, sorry. You know, as soon as those Jewish women, those Hebrew women give birth, they deliver so fast. It's all and Pharaoh goes, Oh, okay. That's, you know, I like that. Rebecca doesn't have a lot of options in her culture.

I mean, she can't give that blessing. Rahab tells the man of Jericho that they Hebrew spies ran out long ago. We better hurry because you might be able to catch them. And Yael, when Cisera, the Canaanite captain, comes to get refuge because his army is being slaughtered by the Israelites and he thinks, Yael is going to save him. She goes, Oh, here have some warm milk and sleep. And while he's sleeping, you know, she hammers his head to the floor. But you just see different kinds of things that are happening here. Could it be that Rebecca is being an instrument in the Lord's hands to get the right thing to happen? And could it be that Isaac is old

and is not exactly sure what he's doing? I hate to, I'm trying to do the same thing and trying to help make sense of it, but the right thing happened. If it was switched around, we wouldn't have trouble. If it was Rebecca struggling and Isaac came through and did something to went through, we're used to that more. But it's when it's the woman doing it, it's like she's micromanaging, she's, you know, she's where she shouldn't be. But that's why I love this quote from Elder Makanke.

Women are appointed Rebecca like to be guides and lights in righteousness in the family unit and to engineer and arrange so that things are done in the way that will result in the salvation of more of the father's children. Elder Maconkey even says, oh, that all more women could be more like Rebecca and engineer things, create an environment where the right blessing could be given. Okay, we got to turn to this one. Hebrews 11. I know we're new testament, but remember Hebrews 11

This is the great roll call of the faith hall of fame. These are the people who were so sure About the promises that God had given that they acted even without any evidence to the dip to contrary in a tiny little verse 20 We read this by, Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. I just think bottom line with all of it, when Isaac is giving that blessing, he's not doing it with his physical senses. It's not his sight, it's not his smell, it's not his taste, that's telling him about this. He's getting this. He thinks, you know, there's something in here that is, could be Esau, but he gives the blessing that the Lord gives to him to give to that son by faith, by the

spirit. It's the Lord. You have to have that verse. And, come here, I actually love how complicated and... It is! It's good, it's human. There's something the Lord says, yeah, work this out in your mind. And it's such a real story. It's messy, just like our lives are messy.

It helps us when our lives are messy. He gives the blessing, and here it is, down here 28 and 29. Therefore, this is chapter 27 of Genesis 28, 29. Therefore, God gives the do of the earth and the fatness of the earth and plenty of corn and wine that people serve thee and nations bow down to thee. Be Lord over thy brethren and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee. Curse be everyone that cursed thee and bless be he that bless thee.

You're some of that that reflects what Rebecca was giving in her revelation before down to the curse, be everyone that cursed the and blessed be He that blessed the. You're some of that that reflects what Rebecca was giving in her revelation before they were born. You can't say it is 100% precisely Abrahamic covenant and putting him in charge, but there are some echoes of it in there. While we're right there, flip over to chapter 28. Here is Isaac again blessing Jacob. And this time he says, some similar things, but adds, and this definitely is Abrahamic covenant. God Almighty bless thee and make thee fruitful and multiply thee that thou mayest be a multitude

of people and give thee the blessing of Abraham to thee, and to thy seed with thee, that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger which God gave unto Abraham. So again, you wonder if we've got three different kinds of blessings, birthright, a father's blessing, and then here is the leadership of the covenant blessing, or if this is all one given there. You can argue both ways, but we got to go back to 27 because it's classic because Esau comes back just after he finishes giving that blessing. And Isaac seems to be confused, doesn't he? Yeah. He's going who? He said, wait

a minute, who were you? Verse 32, Oh, I'm your son, your first born, I, Esau, and Isaac trembled, verse 33. Very exceedingly, he said, who? Where is he that has taken Venison? And verse 34, Esau heard the words of his father and cried with great and exceeding bitter cry. Bless me, even me also, oh my father, thy brother and Isaac is when thy brother came with subtlety in a taken away thy blessing. Then Esa says, is he, is not he rightly named Jacob for he had supplanted me these two times. He took

away my birthright and behold now he's taken away my blessing. So that does indicate kind of two separate kind of events here. Isaac does bless Esau and he gives him a great father's blessing right there, but no indication as far as his brother serving him. That order was given to Jacob. So Isaac, Isaac knows. I don't know. In my mind, I'm like Isaac knows he gave the right blessing to Jacob. By the spirit, he definitely knows.

Yeah, at this point, he's going, this, this needed to happen. He's And what Camille read in Genesis 28, verses three and four, I've got in my margin, Isaac confirms the right one got the birthright. I'm team Esau, I like that he comes around later, but when he blames Jacob in verse 36, it reminds me of Laman and Lemuel, right?

That we're always wronged. Nephi's always taking a thought. I'm the victim. Yeah, and it's like, you made the decision to trade the birthright. You married outside of the covenant. You did these things. And so what is Esa's response then? After we mourn my father, I won't do it until my father's gone

because I don't want to hurt his feelings. But this is end of verse 41. Then I will slay my brother, Jacob. That'll take care of it. That's a very layman and lemme a lot of two. Who is right there to say, Hey, I got to save both of my boys. It's it's Rebecca. And she that's where at the end of chapter 27, flee thou to Laban my brother to

Haran. And Terry with him a few days until thy brother's fury turn away. Oh, isn't that a mother for you? It won't take long and we'll all be one big happy family here again. A few days. And then I'll come and fetch you. And first 46, Rebecca said to Isaac, I am weary of my life because of the daughters of heath. I think we're going back again to Esau marrying out of the covenant. If J could take one of the daughters of heath, such as these, which are of the daughters of the land, what good shall my life do me? Is heath the same as a hit height? Yeah, if you go back and that that table of

nations back in that you'll find. About Noah. Where that connected. Yes. Yes. Poor Rebecca. You just feel for her. I know. And so she says, can you say going by with to Jacob and they've got a really close relationship. And we're going to be seeing that Jacob's life go on and it's going to be tough. It's not an easy one. I mean, he's going to have a rough, it's going to be 20 years before he returns. And we don't see Isaac and Rebecca when he comes back, right? And so this is saying goodbye. Right. And so this is saying goodbye. I wonder Camille, if way back when Abraham Servant found Rebecca,

they needed that kind of sign because she's got to be questioning herself after all this. Maybe I wasn't the right person for the job. I know, but I think she isn't that a wonderful, that's a marriage as far as. Yeah. That's a marriage as far as we you can't have someone who is there as a help meet for them unless you actually need them. And I'm not saying giving birth to those children with critical and they're like she was the one she's only one that could do it. For Isaac to do what he needed in his priesthood position. Her support, her inspiration, administrative skills made a difference. And I think he will bless Rebecca forever as Abraham will Sarah

and vice versa. It isn't just ideal in the way that you say, oh, this is would be the cover of the unsigned kind of. I wonder, I'd love to see more of Esau's mindset after Jacob leaves. And he's there with his wives and his children and Isaac and Rebecca and feeling like I have so disappointed them. Look at verse 6 of chapter 28, when Esau saw that Isaac had blessed Jacob and sent him away to Padamuram to take him a wife from fence, and that as he blessed him, he gave him a charge saying, thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan. The Jacob obeyed his father and his mother and was gone to Padamuram. And Esau seen that the daughters of Canaan please not Isaac his father. I want to say this is a time of change of heart for Esa. It's starting to dawn on him. Wait a minute. I did this

to myself. Look what he does next in verse 9. Then Esa went to Ishmael. He knows right where Ishmael is and took unto the wives which he had, Mahalath, the daughter of Ishmael Abraham's son, the sister of Nabadioth, to be his wife. We see there in verse 9, Issa changed direction and he marries one of Ishmael's daughters. Now you might say, always, this is just window dressing. Not if you see Ishmael being of covenant and that he has blessings too. And what reinforces that is 20 years later, here comes Jacob back with four wives and 12 sons and how many daughters and he sees Esa coming to him from afar. Oh, it is the most beautiful. Chapter 33. I better send him gifts. And Jacob is already feeling guilty. He's going to say, Oh, here it comes. And he starts sending me out all the gifts.

He was going to kill me. Yeah. But chapter 33 verse four, Esau ran to meet him. Oh, it's Esau running. And he embraced him and fell on his neck and kissed him and wept. And they wept. And he says, who were these? And they introduced their families to each other. And then he asks, Jacob, why are you giving me all of this? What mean is that verse 8? By all this drove which I met. And Jacob says, these are to find grace in the eyes. And Jesus says, I have enough my brother. Keep thou that thou hast to thyself. I mean, it is a beautiful reunion. And there's no competition or animosity. I mean, there could still be, I don't know how close

you're going to be living by each other after this. We don't hear about Esa. But let's not justify bad feelings between brothers today or between peoples. This is not the place to say Palestinians and Israelis are enemies forevermore because of Issaan Jacob or because of Isaac and Ishmael. The Bible tells us the Lord's plan of this family is one of redemption and with time, incredible things happen. And with time, incredible things happen. And section 132, these husbands and wives do not sit on thrones but are gods. They are exalted. And that's just one of the generations right there.

They're real people. And one day, we will get to meet them and find out the parts of the story that I just messed up a whole lot. It was beautiful and I think I I loved I can't remember who said it to Hank but somebody talking about look the Old Testament is Messy, but it's a book of redemption. So I love that you said that it's all about redemption. Thank heavens for all of us. It's all about redemption. Thank goodness they had each other, but especially thanks be to God and His grace and mercy

to Jesus Christ who made all things possible. Camille, what a great day. That reconciliation, that is a, that's a beautiful moment. I feel so much more love for Rebecca, you know, leaving her family behind, taking on, and it's not like the Lord called her to this awesome situation. I mean, this is rough. This 20 years of being barren and then her sons are, she's got to work this out between them. I think they speak to men as well in the same way that Abraham Isaac and Jacob speak to me and to women. We want to thank Dr. Camille Frankelson for being with us today. Wow, wow, wow.

Thank you all for listening. We're grateful for your support. We want to thank our executive producers, Steven Shannon Sonson, and our sponsors, David and Verla Sonson. And we hope everyone will join us next week for our next episode of Follow Him. Thank you.