Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Genesis 37-41 -- Part 2 : Dr. Lili De Hoyos Anderson

Episode Date: March 6, 2022

Dr. Anderson returns to discuss the timing of blessings, how sometimes the wicked seem to prosper, how spiritual blessings can come from the darkest times, and how all will be made right through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/episodesFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producers/SponsorsDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: MarketingLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Rough Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Transcripts/Language Team/French TranscriptsAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. I'm going to tell you another story. I had a good friend that had a really unfair situation happened to her. She was married to BYU about the time that Chris and I got married. And we managed to see in contact. I think we didn't have cell phones anymore. But even though we lived in different states, we remained friends and had some contact here and there anyway. Even visited them a little bit. They had a bunch of kids too, so our kids were about the same age. And then her husband, who was in the seminary and institute program in another state,

this was a long time ago, had him affair with one of his students and left the family. And he left them in terrible financial circumstances. I mean, horrible. There were bad taxes that were owed. They didn't own a home of their own. They were staying in a home of a couple that were on a mission. So he had all these kids and he never paid a penny of Aaron Roni or Charles support. And the woman that he left for was wealthy. So pretty soon he was driving a truck and he ended up with this new wife in a place where the family had previously lived. So occasionally she would get some news from a friend. This was a few years after the divorce, but she was still in very different circumstances. Now talking about tender mercies, she had been really inspired to renew her teaching credentials

just before all this happened. And so she was able to get a job that provided income and benefits, which was a miracle because she had of this large family and no help from their father. And you know what God says about that in the New Testament that he who doesn't take care of life and children has worse than an infidel. You know, infidel's don't even believe, you know,

at all. And God's so, it's pretty serious to God. And this was her circumstance. And it was bitter. It was a bitter, bitter circumstance. So unfair. And then she had a friend from this town where her ex-husband now lived with his new wife, called one day and say, oh, is he paying child support? My friend said, why would you think so? And she said, well, I saw him in the temple and she was really upset. Because as we know, in the temple recommend questions, if you've been divorced, they ask if you are current

in your obligations, because the board expects us to meet those commitments in order to be worthy to enter his house, but sometimes people don't tell the truth. So he had a temple recommend even though he was not making those commitments at all. And my friend called her, she was she was beside herself. Why does this happen? How can he end up in the temple again? And she was like, you know, why would I even want to go to the temple if they'll let him in the temple? And why do I want to go to church? If they'll let this guy, I mean, he was teaching gospel doctrine.

The unfairness of it, the irony, it was so painful for her. She was just in so much trouble emotionally and the pain was awful. And she said, why can't they just make a phone call? Why don't they just call? I wasn't a counselor at the time. But she finally paused and I mean of course I accepted her pain and offered you know my love and sorrow for her. And finally she got to a place where she said, so what do I do? Tell me something.

I'm like, wow. So I'm like praying my guts out. You know, like, please Lord help me say something that can be of comfort to her. And I said, have I ever told you how I grade seminary? I was teaching a really ordinary seminary by then. And she said, is this going to be relevant? I'm like, you're hope so. She said, okay, so I said, well, the first year, I'm sure there are policies now that should be followed, but back then they were pretty liberal about us early morning teachers. The first year I did the recommended US assignments or quizzes or something that were pretty easy

and I gave them grades, but I didn't really like that system, so the next year and from then on, for the other four years that I taught, when the kids would come in the first day, they always wanted to know how I was going to grade. So I would say, well, we're going to keep it really simple. If you come 80% of the time, which is the minimum requirement for CES credit, and you're awake and respectful, I'm going to give you a B. Because I think it's a big sacrifice to come to early learning seminary.

I'm going to give you a B. So they're like, how do we get a B? And I said, well, if you want an A, you need to read the scriptures that we're studying. Because you know, you could take 12 years with Book of Mormon and you never know if you don't read it. Same with other scriptures. So that's my incentive if you want an A, read the scriptures that we're studying.

And then again, because they're programmed by all kinds of educational processes and so on and the strictures they were like, well, so how many chapters do we have to read a day, do our parents need to initial something, do we have to sign the role a certain way? You know, how do we do this? And I said, that's way too much paperwork. I'm a volunteer. So we're going to keep this really simple. You make an acceptable effort to read the scriptures. I know you're busy, but that's between you and the Lord. What is an acceptable effort to finish this book, even if you have to finish it in the summer, but make an acceptable effort during this journey this book, even if you have to finish it in the summer, but make an acceptable effort during this journey of setting this year to read this book.

And every quarter, I'm going to pass out a piece of paper to all of you and you'll write your name on it and you write, yes, if you're making an acceptable effort and no, if you're not, fold the paper, hand it in, the yeses get a, the noes get b's. And these kids would gasp aloud and then someone would always ask what if someone lies and my answer was then they go to health but they get an A in seminary. It was a great great segue because then I could talk about the plan of salvation and how we are here to overcome through faith in this world you shall have tribulation but I have overcome the world.

So we would talk about the plan and how we are here to overcome through injustice, through the unfairness of life, and to become powerful because we left those things refin us instead of burn us into ash. And it was a great beginning to the year, but back to my friend. There was a little silence for a moment. She said, okay, that's relevant. She said, he can go to the year, but back to my friend. There was a little silence for a moment. She said, okay, that's relevant. She said, he can go to the temple, but he's losing everything, isn't he? So that's right. And he's heaping holes of fire on his head.

He can fool his bishop, but he cannot fool God. All things are known to God. Is it worth it? It's never worth it. Some people might make that calculation that, like Judah, hey, can play around if I want to. I can break my covenants anytime that I feel a desire at an urge or the temptation to do so or like Joseph. It doesn't matter what you throw it at me. It doesn't matter how unfair it is. I will serve the Lord. I will serve him at all hazards, at all injustice.

When no good deed goes unpunished, I will serve the Lord. And I will become through the Atomina Christ, powerful. Spiritually I will become the best version of myself through the Atomina Christ. And that's the plan. That's the plan. And the Lord will be with us. And even when we can't see that because sometimes we are going through the value of the shadow. That is the time to stretch our faith. And, oh Lord, I believe help found mine unbelief. Let me stretch my faith to believe that you are with me even when I don't feel it.

When I feel abandoned like like Nephi, like Joseph, but they weren't, and neither are we. We are never abandoned when we choose the Lord, and He will work through all those processes to make us something amazing. In the image of His Son, what we were meant to be, what we were created to become. That's his desire. Let me read a statement by C.S. Lewis. He says, the hardness of God is kinder than the softness of men. And why?

Because there's a purpose. Because his purpose is to to bless us with everything that he has, that he wants to give us, but we have to be prepared to receive it or it'll totally burn us to ash. And then, see, as Lewis goes on, his compulsion is our liberation, our liberation from the things that hold us back from from sin, of course, but even from our own limitations, from our weaknesses. He's going to liberate us from all those things and make them into strengths if we yield to this process.

And it isn't yielding. It says it says in Isaiah 3.19, submitting to the Lord's plan without rebellion. And then we have our maybe moments, like we said, sometimes are like, this sometimes are like This is hard. This is hard and it is it is and we want to mourn with them But mourn and comfort those in need of comfort and lift up the arms that hang down and strengthen the people me We should be fellowshiping each other in our troubles and in our pain But not forget the purpose for which those things are part of the plan. It's amazing. What God can do with us. He can take even me and Turn me into something divine if I keep choosing him in my affliction and I don't doubt that the Lord will be with me Even when I don't feel it in the immediate sense. He is there

So pretty happy ending to my friend's story immediate sense. He is there. So a pretty happy ending to my friend's story. And there are so many times I've been privileged to see that. And it's not an ending because, of course, there are still challenges and there are still trials. But there have been blessings along the way that are tender and nurturing. And that continue to give us opportunities, of course, to grow and become, but to trust in the Lord more and more. And that is what I see again and again as I work with people, that it's our choice, our choice to let him consecrate our fortune for our good, or just to be miserable.

Yeah, I was thinking about, as you're told that story, the author here of Genesis seems to be said on letting us know that Joseph and the Lord were very close, no matter how dark he got where he was at their potifers house or in prison, the Lord was with him. And then you think about people who do these terrible things, how come they're doing fine? And there's this moment, and I think I'm getting outside of our lesson. So sorry about this, but I just want to jump quickly to Genesis 42, 21, where Joseph can overhear his brothers

talking. This is later when they've returned to his life and they don't know it's him. It's maybe not as been as easy as we think for them. In verse 21, they're talking to each other. They said, we are very guilty concerning our brother. We saw the anguish of his soul when he besought us. We would not hear. Therefore, is this distress come upon us? This has been hell for them after making this decision. Maybe they put it on a brave face in public, but it sounds like in private. They are still hearing Joseph's cries. I have a quote here from Elder Holland. Right here at the end of a 2007 General Conference message, he said, quote, to have the approval of your conscience when you are alone with your memories, allows

you to feel the spirit of God in a very personal way. So when those brothers got alone with their memories, you can see the torture that's happening there. And that's not a good thing. That's not a thing that I'm like, well, good for, but it's a consequence. I do want to say that this is another real trial, is that it seems that people who make bad choices, sometimes have these easy lies or get rich and famous. Mark Twain actually wrote two short stories. He wrote lots of short stories, but two of them were called one, the story of the Battle of Boy and the story of the Good Lord Boy. And the story of the Good Lord Boy,

he just had trouble after trouble, and was sometimes accused unfairly of things. And anyway, he just never really, really had an easy life and the story of the Battle of Boy. I mean, he has a rich, famous mayor of the town, but he's a terrible guy. And he dies in bed with a cigar and a beautiful woman. You know, I mean, it's really at a ripe old age. So, and the wicked have their time in his son. Satan does have some power in this in this world. He can fuel the success of some very wicked people. And they can seem to have a better life or an easier life, but it's an illusion. That's again, my friend was thinking, my ex-husband is having a great time with lots of money now and no obligations, but she could see that like, this is just temporary. This

is the test. This is the test. Don't be deceived by the fact that the wicked may have their day in the sun. And that day might last a long time. In the end, and in the final analysis, and the day of judgment, when the secret acts of men are revealed, they'll wish that the mountains could drop on them to cover their shame. And that's not going to happen. They will be revealed. It's just not worth it. It's just not worth it. It's, but that's a choice people make. They can seem to prosper. Again, this is the great irony. The great speech by Neomax, well by the way, worth looking up called irony, the crest on the bread of adversity. So magnificent treatment of this subject about the greatest test

or the most ironic, where the bad guys seem to prosper and the good guys seem to get kicked in the teeth all the time, but don't be deceived. Don't be deceived. In this process of we keep choosing God, what is coming is so tremendous. We said a sign in one of our seminary teacher offices that said, you know, when you work for the Lord, the pay may not be so great, but you can't be through time. Worrying if you're putting your driver all going to work out for the righteous man. I want to read a couple of statements that I think are really a nice kind of rap in a way to this. John Taylor said this once, I used to think if I were the Lord I would

not suffer people to be tried as they are, but I have changed my mind on that subject. Now I think it purges out the meanness and corruption that stick around the saints like flies around the last. He gets it. He's like, no, that would be a mistake. That wouldn't be love. And that's what CS Lewis is saying. The hardness of the board is better than the softest of men because we would let ourselves

off the hook. If we never ask our children to do hard things, is that really love? Or is that betrayal? If we try to wrap them and bubble wrap, yeah, what are we preparing them for? They're not gonna be powerful. They're not gonna be antifragil, but they're gonna become more fragile. So trials are part of this journey. Now in preach my gospel. There's this beautiful statement that isn't new. It wasn't a new doctrine, but it's just nicely summarized in preach my gospel where it says, all that is unfair about life can be made right through the Atonan that Jesus Christ. That is a terrific summary statement.

It will be made right because God is fair. He allows this injustice to be a trial for us, to be a spiritual weight room, where we can become as powerful as we choose to become through Jesus Christ. And then when the Lord recompenses, like there's this, you know, look at this beautiful verse from Revelation that we know, right? And God shall wipe all tears from their eyes.

And there shall be no more depth, neither sorrow nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain for the former things shall pass away. So God is telling us in this world, we shall have tribulation, but this isn't over. It is but a small moment relatively speaking and it may seem like forever and sometimes it does but it's not. It's not. Take three giant steps back and look again because there is something coming that is so amazing that it will heal all your wounds and wipe

every tear from your eyes. It will comfort every heart. Now how does God measure things? And I remember when I was looking up some of this stuff I was reminded of this first in Luke chapter 6. The other was revelations 21, if anybody's looking for that, but Luke's chapter 6, verse 38, tells us how the Lord measures stuff. And what does he say? He says, good measure, pressed down and shaken together and running over. You know how some recipes call for a scant teaspoon or a skamp cup of something? That's not how the Lord measures. There are no scant measurements in the board's compensations. It's good measure, pressed down, shaken together, get all those air pockets out of there, and running over. When the Lord returns to us what we have

given to him in sacrifice and in choosing him in the midst of affliction, it will come back in a beautiful way. This next statement is from a book that I read when I was probably 16 for the first time that I read this book. I read a few times. It's a beautiful novel by a woman named Elizabeth Gowd. And it's in the 1800s or whatever, and there's sort of a legend involved. And anyway, these characters are really amazing characters, but there are a few characters that come together

and strengthen each other in the midst of the trials of life. It's a beautiful story, but one of the characters is a doctor, a country doctor, in this little seaside town in England. He is such a good man and he ministers to these people and he is much loved but the sorrow of his life is that he was never able to be a father because he had a hunchback and that is not a large part of the story. It's sort of mentioned in passing but that's why he couldn't find a woman to marry him because he was mischafing. But that's why he couldn't find a woman to marry him because he was mischaping. So he becomes this doctor and he does good his whole life, but he was never able to have

experience of being a father. Well, into his life comes a 16 year old boy who is an orphan who is in desperate need of help and the doctor actually heals him physically, or helps him to heal physically from some injuries, takes care of him in his home. And then when he's well enough, and they're at the dinner table, he asks someone about the boy and what his circumstances is. And if he has a family that the doctor should help him return to, and when he hears that this boy is an orphan, sort of catch in the doctor's heart, this little moment where he then offers himself to be this

boy's father. And the boy has already felt the great compassion and goodness and love of this man. And the boy's heart kind of catches. I'm paraphrasing, this is written exactly this way, but you see it come to life in these pages where the boy needs this so badly and sees how wonderful this man is and how he is offering himself to be this boy's father, he desperately needs this and the doctor desperately needs his son and they come together in this relationship that you know, endure and is stunningly beautiful. And this is what the author says in the book.

She says, sometimes fortune took it into her head to lay upon a wound, a sav of such value that a man becomes positively glad of the wound. Let me say that in a better way. God, because he has promised to do so and he cannot buy, will lay upon our wounds a sad of such value as to make us positively glad of our wounds. We have taught this other great lesson that we have to know the bitter, to know the sweet. There is a purpose to pain. I met with a woman once who it was around Christmas time and she I said, are you ready for Christmas? And she had four kids, the oldest was in high school, I think. And she said, I hate Christmas. Really? Why is that? She said because they had a lot of

money in their family. She said, well, you know, my kids get anything they want anytime they want it. So when Christmas comes, I have to scour the earth to find the latest and greatest whatever to try to entertain them and that five minutes I have their board because, you know, they can buy them. So I'm like, how sad is that? Those kids have never had to wait for anything, so they can't enjoy. You have to wait sometimes. You have to, deprivation isn't always a bad thing

to kind of be without, so that you can appreciate what it's like to have it. If we're protecting our kids, or indulging them right and left with everything, and we're robbing them of the sweet, because they never know what it's like not to have all that sweetness around they get tired of it they don't even appreciate it so there's so many takeaways from this right but but that's the there's so many blessings that God gives us because of the afflictions and we

suffer you have to know the bitter you will know you will know the bitter but if you don't be com bitter and you'll keep choosing me you don't even know how good it's if you don't become bitter and you keep choosing me, you don't even know how good it's going to be. But I'm telling you, it's going to be amazing. I will lay upon your wounds a sub of such value that you will be glad for that wound because of the joy that you now feel. Now, another way to put that, Neomax Well,

we find that sorrow can actually enlarge the mind and heart in order to give place expanded space for later joy. I remember when I heard that, it was from a speech called Endure, well in April of 1990, and comes, I remember hearing that when he said that and it hit me so hard, I'm like, is that how it works? That is how it works, isn't it?

Because happiness doesn't stretch our hearts. I'm happy it was fun. It's great. And we should enjoy it when it comes. But it does not require very much of us to be happy. It doesn't stretch us. But sorrow, sorrow stretches our hearts and minds. We can hardly believe how much we are feeling of pain and we're still breathing. I get surprises us.

How much we can have a broken heart and continue to breathe. He called that the excavation of the soul. President Packer used to quote that little poem like Robert Browning Hamilton or somebody with lots of syllables that sounds like a poet. What was it? I walked a mile with pleasure, she shattered all the way but left me none the wiser for else she had to say, I walked a mile with sorrow and not a word said she, but oh the things I learned from her when sorrow walked with me. These are testimonies that people have given us of what sorrow can do, what pain can do, that there is a purpose, that is grand.

It is a grand design that God has for us. And he wants nothing less than this culminating glory and power that he can give us. Elder Paul on kind of summarizes it this way. Some blessings come soon, some come late, and some don't come till heaven. But for those who embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ, they come. Christ has told us he will give us beauty for ashes

and the oil of joy for morning. That's the promise. I'm right here in my desk and here is my Isaiah paper weight. We bought it in San Francisco, in New Delhi Square. So many years ago, there was a few years after the Mount St. Helen's eruption, where ash covered that area like feet of snow, several feet of snow.

And in this little shop of grass, there was a shelf that had many items that said that this class had been made from the ashes of the Mount St. Hall and the rest. And we were on a tight budget back in those days, but I went to Christmas and I said, are you okay if I buy this? I mean, it was like $25, but I said, are you okay if I buy this? Because they made beauty for matches. And I keep it on my desk.

I can't buy I say a paperweight. This is the plan that God will give us beauty for ashes. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over. There is no better plan. There is no better God. There is no greater savior. better God. There is no greater savior. Lily, I notice with Joseph that he continues in the darkest places to have incredible experiences. He's in prison and he's interpreting dreams. And acknowledging where they can interpretation comes from. That's very important, right? Because he says that these things come from God. It's not me. And we talk about, oh, how come the wicked prosper? I remember one very prominent celebrity said, I wish everybody could get rich and famous and do all that they ever dream of so they can see

that it's not that great, that it's not the answer. So Joseph still, even in his darkest places, is having these divine experiences, which to me is a beautiful, maybe an application for us, that in the middle of your trials, and problems, yeah, you're gonna have these, God is with you. I'd rather be in prison, to be honest, and have God with me, than be Judah,

and not really have a relationship with you. I'd rather be in prison, to be honest, and have God with me than be Judah, and not really have a relationship with God. Looking back on my life, I think probably my most spiritual experiences have come in a lot of really dark, hard times. Maybe it's because we draw close to the Lord that way. I'm friends with your daughter-in-law and your son, and that what they've been through with the loss of Jennifer's father, Steve, you've seen that, and you've been close to that. You've known the Sonsin's longer than either John or I, and this seems to be a theme that they keep telling me that in this darkness they're having these divine experiences. If we choose and they have chosen, it is, it's a choice.

We can become better and angry. It's always available, or we can just put our heads down and try to get through, or we can grow, we can draw closer. So there really are those three paths. Only one of them is his best and it makes us of something that we can only dream of, you know, it makes us into the likeness of our Savior. So, you know, there's some things that can only happen in the dark, in the valley of the shadow. And, you know, let's just also be clear that the Lord does give us moments moments of oasis. There are tender mercies. There are

the moments of chance to replenish or recharge. They may not come when we want them to, because we're stronger than we think we are. And the Lord wants us to learn that. But they do come, and the Lord is kind. And we do have friends that might reach out, or a neighbor, or somebody in our lives that it becomes a dear friend at those times that become really precious gifts in our time of trouble. So if we have eyes to see, we can see that. And I hope we will.

But there are those tender mercies that come, those little waysies in the wilderness. But here's a moment, you know, to just refresh yourself and remind yourself that there is a flowing living water that will fill you if you are willing to drink of it. And then of course, he even asks that guy, the one that's going to live. When you started front of Pharaoh again, will you mention me to him because I'm an is that Hebrew, told him a library and then imprisoned unjustly, if you don't mind, could you just like tell Pharaoh that and maybe he would wanna do something about that? And we didn't mention this, but these people were not the typical Egyptians.

It was a group called the Hiscos that had invaded, kind of they called them sort of a conglomeration of the Asiatic tribes or whatever that had come over and taken over Egypt. And we're in power when Joseph is there in Egypt and does this amazing thing of interpreting Pharaoh's dream, the Lord's thinking, do we ever really think we're smarter than God?

This is so amazing to me because he's got a million irons of the fire and they all work out well. So here he's still thinking of Jacob and all those people who are going to be the tribes of Israel and he puts Joseph in this place and gives Pharaoh a dream because there is going to be this famine that's all going to bring everybody together again. Anyway, all that good stuff coming next week, but he sends this dream and Joseph has the gift interpretation of these dreams. So the Butler finally goes like, oh, I remember my

sins this day. Oh, dear, I forgot to be grateful to that guy in prison. But now I remember, now that Pharaoh has a dream, hey, there's this kind of cool Hebrew in prison who really told us everything we need to know about our dreams. And they came true. So Pharaoh immediately sends for him. And after, you know, all these years, all these years, here comes Joe's appumbly, again saying the interpretation will be given by God. I'm not going to say credit for this, but I can tap into that resource because I am, I am a child of God, and I have the covenants in place and have been worthy. So we can drop on that power and you interpret the dream and all of this,

and that Pharaoh is so impressed and makes him second. I mean, this is amazing, but these are his ghost people because some people have asked, why is there no record of Joseph in Egypt? You know, there's been so much excavation and so many monuments discovered and you know, tombs and the pyramids and all, anyway, all this stuff. But Joseph is not, there's one place in Egypt that is called the Canal of Joseph. That's it. That seems to be the reference that might still exist to Joseph. That he built this canal, this waterway. You'd think that somebody of this stature who saved Egypt and many of the surrounding territories from from starvation during the famine would maybe have a monument or some record because there really are a lot of hieroglyphics and their records have been discovered but no there's not anything but that can out and why well because then the people who had originally ruled Egypt came

back into power and it is suspected that they just destroyed all the monuments that the Hiscos had built. They tried to eradicate that unfortunate chapter in their history when they were out of power. However, we do have a record of Joseph in the Quran. There are 111 verses in the Quran that are about Joseph and that tells the same story that he was sold into slavery and became powerful in these kind of interesting detail that we don't have a lot of historical artifacts or anything that testify of Joseph, but this record is precious, this record is precious, it is mentioned in the Quran, and it's probably because the history was for kind of an invader dynasty that then was thrust back out of Egypt and their monuments

destroyed. There's a verse in chapter 41 that I just love, And it seems to be the summary of Joseph. And it's from Pharaoh, it's Genesis 41, 38. He says, he hears from Joseph and Joseph interprets the dream and he said, can we find such a one is this? A man in whom the Spirit of God is. I think of everything we've talked about. He's kept his

covenants, he's submitted to these horrendous trials, and this is the end result. He is something else. He is incredible. It's something else. An amount of that power, that statue, Pharaoh of Egypt, who could have commanded, you know, and did have the power of her life and death, but he says, wow, this is something about this kind of is different from anything I've ever seen. And then just in the next verse, too, they were none as discrete and wise as they were. And I like what Lily said about we can go through bitterness without becoming bitter. I just I can't see any evidence of Joseph going, what is going on or looking heavenward? Why is this happening? I don't see any evidence of him griping about it.

He says in verse 13 of 40, also, have I done nothing that they should put me into the dungeon, but he's talking to one of those whose dreams he interprets. But we don't have any evidence that he gets angry with God here. Well, and I think we can be clear on that because anger and bitterness drive out the spirit. Here all the time, the spirit will not always strive with men. It can't. And other Scott talked about this one, it's about how anger really makes it hard to receive revelation. In these powerful negative emotions drive the spirit away. We're making natural conclusions here based on the principles of a gospel that are very clearly taught to us that you can't do wrong and feel right. You can't be bitter and have the spirit. Those are mutually exclusive situations. So yes, even though we have to make those conclusions, but we know that those are the principles on

which revelation is based, on which these gifts are based on which the Spirit is based. The Spirit has to be at home in us. We understand we're going to have moments where we do protest the unfairness of life. We should be compassionate to ourselves about that, but don't land in it. Yeah, don't stay there. Don't live there. Yeah. Come back to the light.

I wanted to do something real quick before we wrap up. Jesus isn't mentioned in these chapters, but I think we can find him. One, of course, working with Joseph, being the God who is with Joseph. The Lord was with Joseph, yeah. So we can kind of see the Savior here too. Also, you can see a type where Joseph is a lot like Jesus. And we can learn a little bit about Jesus from Joseph. The fact that he saves the very people who reject him is a type of Jesus that he was sold. 20 pieces of silver as opposed to 30. Yeah, I was reading about that. And it said that because of his younger age, for him it was 20, it would have been 30 for an older slave that Jesus was sold for.

Yeah, interesting. And he was forgotten. The chief butler, it says in chapter 40 verse 23, forgot him. Oh yeah, there was this guy. Yeah. And it reminds me of what did Isaiah say? We turn our face away from him. He was despised, rejected Isaiah 53. We hit our faces from him. Yeah. And then verse 38

of the 41, can we find anyone who has the spirit of God like this? There is none so discrete and wise as that art. That sounds to me like a savior, a Jesus type verse, right? Everyone spoke as this man. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I see, you know, even though the Savior's not listed here, I think you can find him. We remember that the God of the Old Testament is Jehovah. Yeah.

Right, he's here. He says the story here. He is working with his people. And we see the Lord in small caps there. Yeah. He's the one giving the interpretations. Joseph knows that. These interpretations belong to God. They're coming from him. And can I just say that I know some people have a hard time with the Old Testament. And it's a tough book. What's that's basic? It's and it's imperfect.

We know that there are errors in the Old Testament, some inadvertent and accidental, and others more intentional. And I'm so grateful that we have the restoration of all things. And as Joseph Smith so clearly put it in the articles of faith that we believe the Bible be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly. So that gives us a little bit of latitude in understanding some of the difficult passages here. And as I've learned in my own life, the best commentary for the Old Testament and the Bible itself is the Book of Mormon.

We can make sure that we are seeing the connections between the Gospel as taught and the Lord as revealed in the Book of Mormon and the Lord as revealed, you know, Jehovah and the Old Testament and Christ of the New Testament. And realize that this is the same person. Long time ago, I read that there were some people who even sort of had a religious philosophy that there was a God of the Old Testament who was a harsh, nasty, mean guy and that Christ had to rescue the world from that guy, so that the Jesus Christ, the of the New Testament, had rescued us from the God of the Old Testament. I'm kind of like, say, right, I'm kind of saying that.

I mean, I think it's important to realize that if we were not seeing the compassion, the tendency of Jehovah with the God that we learn of in the book of Mormon and the New Testament, we're missing something and we need to go a little further and understand that statement by C.S. Lewis. The hardness of God is kindred in the softness of men. Like, wait a minute, let me reframe this. Let me look again and see how God was working to bless and to save. We just went through the flood. Well, why did that do that? Because he's an angry, unforgiving, nasty guy. No, of course he's none of those things. He's the opposite. So why did he do that? Well, because there are all these children being born in those families, talk about dysfunctional

families. Like we have gone past dysfunction to wholesale ripening in an equity. They are completely lost to this burden. It's extinguished the light that they were born with, that every birdie is born with. And so now as spirits come into those homes, we can see this as studies, as students of human behavior, that if you have a child go into those kinds of circumstances, that light that that child is born with will be extinguished before they reach the age of accountability. So what are we going to do? Keep sending spirits that will never have a chance to actually exercise their agency?

No. Not because I desired it, not because I didn't love them. I offered them the same thing. I offered to everybody else, but they have rejected it completely. This is that would defeat the chance of those children. We're going to wipe this slate and start again so that we can give people a chance. It is love. It is compassion.

And where is the compassion in letting people continue to act in wickedness? They have already chosen. They have exercised their agency to the utmost. Why do we need to leave them on the earth for all that time? And that's gonna happen again. When the Israelites we've Egypt in the future to come back with Moses, to the Promised Land,

and Joshua leads them in and says, that eliminate these people. Why? Because just the Israelites are favorite of God and the Canaanites, he doesn't like so much. No. Because the Canaanites also had ripened in andically. His hardness is kinder than our softness. Are we really saying we're nicer than God? Like, that's not go there. Let's understand what charity really is. That is who Christ is. And that is who the Jehovah of the Old Testament is. It is that same divine

Perfect deity who loves the world and Every creature in it any inviteeth all to come but he loves the spirits that have not come to the earth too I often tell my students just keep at it You know just don't quit. And the day will come that you'll get that break and it does come for Joseph. And it ends up 41, ends up with Joseph in a pretty good spot. It is a beautiful ending. He has the second chariot in Egypt.

He knows awesome off. We don't know a lot about this, but Joseph must have taught her the gospel She understood at least enough to know that when Jacob comes later to bless their sons and she sees that birthright blessing That's verse 51 and 52. Yes, and as has happened before in this family It's not always the eldest son that gets the birthright Joseph receives the birthright not his ten older brothers and here Ephraim will have the birthright. Joseph receives the birthright, not his 10 older brothers. And here, Ephraim will have the birthright blessing. Now, it is exciting that these two tribes preserved to come forth in the latter days. You can see that calling it Ephraim. Joseph Smith being from Ephraim, most of the early members of the church being from Ephraim. This believing blood comes down through the centuries and it lands in Europe, basically.

And then they immediately go to Manasseh to share the gospel with that other tribe that is their brother tribe, pretty powerful ending. Yeah, it's like almost like a foreshadow anywhere. Joseph saves all of the House of Israel. There's in a position to by feeding them when they come over for the famine. And they're like, oh, so in the last days, Joseph the tribe will save the world. Have that primary responsibility to go gather Israel. That's right. To be that vehicle, the instruments. This grand design is so exciting to see that all

these things are put in place. I hope that we will remember as we read through the Old Testament and see these great designs come to fruition that there is more to come and that don't bet against him. Don't second guess. He has a plan and it's a perfect plan. Wow, we've discussed so many good principles today of going through trials and difficulties about not backing down temptation. Stand on holy ground, even if you have to quickly depart something that used to be safe,

and there's no longer safe. I don't want to say every story is going to have its perfect happy ending, but in the Lord's scheme, you will have your chapter 41, your happy ending, and there's more to come after that. But it is a happy ending. The Lord does promise that, but you're right. It doesn't always happen in this life. I'm glad you made that connection because I also would encourage everyone to read with John, it's a second E5-3, where Joseph of Egypt is connected with the latter days. We have so much,

there will be a great seer and he'll come from his loins and he'll be named at the name of his father and we're like, whoa There's a beautiful connection there and why would he not have a vision like that after what he's been through No greater prophecies the prophecies of Joseph and I think that second Nephi three is where we look Yeah for that. Can we see that? There is a book of Joseph that we don't have right now, but we do get a little taste of that in the book of Mormon. He must have been a great seer, prophecies that he was given, the visions that he was given, to see his legacy. What a tender mercy that the Lord gave to him that all of this will culminate in the dispensation of the fullness of times. And this will be your seed.

I remember when students asking me once, why didn't the Lord just move him to Egypt? Why does he have to go through so much, right? And I said, well, the Lord changes his geography in order to save the family. What he goes through changes him into the person that will choose to save the family. So it's not just a geographic change for him to save the family, it's a character

change for him to save the family. And that is the business of God. He has perfectly provided us with the opportunity to, you know, what does he say Moses 139? This is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life. I've been in eternal life is all about the process. It's all about becoming, about overcoming that fallen nature through obedience to the covenants that we make and living in such a way that the Holy Ghost can sanctify us and bring us back into his presence. It's the means by which this happens. And we are meant to be.

We are made to be anti-fragile. And if we don't have these stressors, we end up being a lump of prey. I wonder if he doesn't go through all this suffering. If he does forgive his brothers, right? Because I don't know if I could. Maybe just all this suffering has been through, has cleansed his soul to the point where he can do it. He's able to make that incredible decision to forgive them. And again, it's his response to the suffering, right? We have a little statement, some places that say things like, you know, life is 10% what happens to you,

and 90% how you respond. And that's so true, except I think it's more like 1%, and 99%. Yeah, that's right. I think except I think it's more like 1% and 99% I think that might say it even more accurately. It's really all about how we choose to respond to what happens to us. And Joseph, he probably had his moments like we said, but he doesn't land on those moments. He lands in his faith and he stretches his faith and he grows into this amazing character that you know there's nobody as discreet and wise in all the land. Not many on the earth acquired that goodness

because he has chosen the Lord all through his affliction. Isn't this such a great story? Did the story of Joseph such a great story? They're not too many happy stories in the old test. Yeah. Joseph is an oasis. He is an oasis himself. Because we could read this story and feel the enjoyment of this reward that comes to him even in this life

as just a preview of the rewards to come. Chief Justice Roberts was speaking at a commencement and of his eighth grade son, I think. And he said, well, usually these commencement speakers will wish you well, I'm not going to do that. He says, I'm going to wish that someone will reject you because then you will learn the value of loyalty. I'm going to hope that someday someone takes you for granted. I hope somebody gets in your face

when you lose and he goes, oh, it's so good. You would love it because it's that kind of, you're not going to learn anything if your life is a piece of cake. No, and the sad thing is that we waste our suffering. We just waste our suffering. We're going to suffer. That's the way out of this life. We're out. We're, we waste our suffering. We're gonna suffer. That's the way out of this life. It's wasted. Without tribulation. How can I get the most from my suffering?

Exactly. I'm really, really juice that thing, you know? I mean, bring it out and learn and grow because we're gonna suffer. One of my children was going through some really big challenges. And as I was stepping their feelings and trying to

comfort and and support this child in their journey, I did say I said, look I'm gonna say something it's gonna sound like a threat and it's not meant to be a threat. I'm just trying to share my experience. I said there is always something to learn from difficulty. That is the design of the plan, this perfect plan. There is always something to learn. There's a way for us to grow and to become, to be refined. And I said, you know, you don't have to grow during your trials. But the Lord loves you and He knows who you are. And if you don't learn what you could learn in this trial this time,

He's gonna give you another chance to come back. Learn it the first time. Learn it the first time. So at least the next time you can go on the lesson too. I've always called that the law of mortality. That's right. Lessons will be taught until they are learned. We are coming at people.

And that is a part of the deal that that he will remind us. Sister Julie Beck said that as a teenager, just home evening, every single week, they saying, love at home, you have to sing this again. Why do we sing this every time? And her dad said, when you have learned lesson one, we will go on to lesson two. I remember that. Exactly that. It's exactly that. We in the sooner we bow to that principle, but very much better. The sooner we humble ourselves, submit to the lessons. And it is, if this

yielding, it's this ability to yield to it, that we need to cultivate and not fight against it, not combat the very things that can refine us, not reject them, not oppose them, but yield to them, submit to them and become humble and pliable through gurney. Dr. Anderson Lilly, this has been just fantastic. Really a lot of fun and to have you back, right? John and I are grateful. We're still around and we're grateful you were willing to come back. I think our listeners would be interested in your journey as a scholar, a therapist, a mother, a faithful later-day saint. What's that journey been like for you?

Well, I've enjoyed the journey and I'm so grateful for opportunities. I mean, I think you meant to me before John that, you know, how many people have ended up where they thought they would. It's not surprised by life or didn't have some, you know, big, big turns or brick walls that we hid along the way. I don't know that I can pinpoint just one thing. I know I mentioned last time and I will mention again the great legacy that I had for my parents who were seekers of truth and taught me that example of humility. They were brilliant people who came from humble circumstances but had access because of their own great efforts for higher education and always acknowledged the superiority of God to any earthly wisdom. And when there was a conflict,

it was never, oh, well, maybe God's wrong. It was always like, let's figure out why God is right. Because we already know He is. And that humility, I think, is so key in our journeys to trust the Lord. I had a friend who knew President Monson very well and said that if he had chosen the title to his own biography, he would have referred to Proverbs 3, 5, and 6. Trust in the Lord with all vine heart and lean not into my own understanding and all by always acknowledging that he's a drug by's. Because he lived his life by that and that became a very precious scripture to him. Well without it necessarily having come from that verse although I love that verse, that was the past I was taught and I am so grateful that it just made sense to

me to be acknowledging God's superiority, to be grateful for this creature of such omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence, to recognize and bow before that power and greatness, and to be so grateful that He's willing to share with me and that if I am a seeker of truth in, you know, as we read in the doctrine of covenants through faith but also through study, diligently looking at the secular as well as the sacred, but the sacred has primacy in my life because I trust the Lord. You know, you go to graduate school and I really tell you the therapies are really a dangerous place because a lot of therapists go off the defend. They're often cutting edge on the secular and they're willing to throw God overboard at the moment's notice and put in place philosophies of man as opposed to the wisdom and knowledge and power of God. And so when I went back to graduate school,

that my kids were on school, I used the scriptures as my urine and thumb. And so when I went back to graduate school, after my kids were on school, I used the scriptures as my urine of them. And if I learned something in school that didn't match up with the scriptures, okay, I'll learn it for the test. It's good to understand what people's philosophies are, but I'm not going to believe it because I trust the Lord. And I know he's right in everything. And if I continue to seek, then he will reveal more and more understanding to me of why he is right. It's not if he is right, it's why is he right. And we gain wisdom and understanding as we trust in him. Here's the spying of all power, but then here's this guy with a PhD and we're going to trust. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, that person with a PhD who thinks he knows better than God missed the whole point of education, which is to be humble. The whole point of education is to realize how much we don't know and that we should be

all seekers of truth. And here we have a God who is going to spare it. And he puts it in Scripture and he gives us the spirit. And he tells us that we can know all things through the power of a Holy Ghost. We can have a witness of that truth. Don't doubt. I mean, wasn't it President O'Horth who said, you know, doubt your doubts before your doubt your faith?

Are you kidding? Are you kidding? I think we can't overstate the importance of humility as we study. I don't understand how the God of the Old Testament is as kind and loving as the God of the Book of Mormon or the God of the New Testament. Then I need to study more, not reject, just study more, pray more, ponder more, seek, and the Lord will reveal it because he wants nothing more than to share all of his light and truth with his children.

But if we think we're already full of light and truth without him, how so is that? Where do we think our good ideas come from in the first place? All our good ideas came from him anyway. So it's just a joy to see that if we do have that and use the gospel as our sort of sifting tool, as we gain learning in the world and through our journeys, we really lose out. We don't use Christ as our North and the scriptures as our guide. It protects us from the wilds of the adversary. It protects us from deception. It protects us from falsehoods. To know that like, no, this is the truth and this one God only will I worship who is Jesus Christ.

Not the God in the secular temples. What a great gift we can give to our children if we can teach them this humility, this gratitude for the light and truth that God wants to give us as soon as we are prepared to receive it. And yes, it blends beautifully with all the knowledge that we can gain from other places. We can be open and unafraid to study anywhere, learn from the fountain of truth, and then learn from other good sources. We embrace everything that is beautiful and good, and learn from it and see how all the good things blend and expand our understanding and our gratitude for what God has given us in his gospel. I love to learn.

In fact, I feel God's love when I learn that is one of my big love languages with God. When I have a new idea or I make a new connection or I I understand something better. I feel so loved because I know where it comes from and he's flowing to share it even with really Anderson. I'll always be grateful for that. I'm grateful that my children are seekers of truth.

It's such a gift. I prayed for that. I prayed that my grandchildren will have a desire for the real truth and they'll want to drink from the living waters because that's where the truth is. Everything else, if we do it right, just adds to our gratitude for what God gives us freely. It was good for us to be here.

It was good for us to be here. We say that every time and it really is, really is so much fun. Thank you. We want to thank Dr. Lilly Anderson for being here. Thank you to all of you for listening. We are grateful for you and your support. We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorenson and our sponsors, David and Verla Sorenson. And we hope all of you will join us next week on Follow Him. Thank you.