Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Genesis 42-50 -- Part 2 : Dr. S. Michael Wilcox

Episode Date: March 13, 2022

Dr. Michael Wilcox develops the ideas that forgiveness frees our futures, how God teaches us to be merciful, and how the Lord can take every tragedy and create triumph.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/episodesFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producers/SponsorsDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: MarketingLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Rough Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Transcripts/Language Team/French TranscriptsAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. There's a great talk in the April 2003 general conference by David E. Sorenson. He was in the presidency of the 70th at the time. It's called forgiveness will change bitterness to love. And he talks about these two farmers in the middle of Utah. Mike, you probably remember this story. I do. Chet and Walt, who got in a disagreement over water rights

and it ended up becoming actually a murder case in just two neighbors with fighting and murder and the children and grandchildren are involved later that they still hate each other. Then Elder Swarinson goes through the story of Joseph where he says, you can change this bitterness to love. And this is what he says. That is not to say that forgiveness is easy. When someone has hurt us, or those we care about, that pain can almost be overwhelming. It can feel as if the pain or the injustice is the most important thing in the world When someone has hurt us, or those we care about, that pain can almost be overwhelming.

It can feel as if the pain or the injustice is the most important thing in the world, and that we have no choice but to seek vengeance. But Christ, to the Prince of Peace, teaches us a better way. It can be very difficult to forgive someone the harm they've done to us, but when we do, we open ourselves up to a better future. No longer does someone else's wrongdoing control our course. When we forgive others, it frees us to choose how we will live our own lives. Forgiveness means that the problems of the past no longer dictate our destinies, and we can focus

on the future with God's love in our heart. So I'll just encourage everyone to go read this talk or go listen to it from David Sorenson. It's a beautiful one because Joseph could focus on the 22 years he did not have father in his life, but he just, he chooses not to. The next principle that I think is really important, we got one more weeping, Joseph's gonna weep one more time.

And this idea is gonna be emphasized again again that God will make the negatives positive. Genesis is going to end in that. So here's the principles way I'd say it, except forgiveness when it is offered freely. Remember, there are no servants in the kingdom, only brothers. So Jacob dies, he's in Egypt 17 years, Genesis 50. So if it was, let's say, year 22 when he comes down from the selling, okay? Joseph was sold 22 years later, the family comes down 17 years later. So we are at 39 years now after the injury

was done to Joseph and Jacob dies. Now what do the brothers think? Verse 15, When Joseph's brethren saw that their father was dead, they said, Joseph will peradventure hate us, and will certainly require us all the evil which we did unto him. That's the expectation of a lot of people, the vengeance attitude. They sent a messenger unto Joseph, saying, thy father did command before he died, saying,

so shall you say unto Joseph, forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren and their sin, for they did unto the evil, and now we pray thee forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father, and Joseph wept when they spake unto him. They haven't accepted.

I wonder how often God weeps when we don't really believe He forgives us. When He says, look, I've not only forgiven, I forget. And it's important in your relationship to realize that I not only forgive, but there is forgetfulness in the relationship. And you need to forget it too. Joseph wept when they spake unto him. And his brethren also went and fell down before his face and they said, Behold, we be thy servants.

Now, Joseph doesn't want servants. He wants brothers. There's an echo in the Prod. Son. What does the Prod. Son. What does the Prod. Son say to his father? I will arise.

I will go to my father and I will say it to him, father, I've sinned before heaven in my sight. Just what the brothers are saying here. We did evil. We know I am no more worthy to be called by Son. We are no more worthy to be called by brothers. Make me as one of thy servants. I know the relationship can't be the same, so I'm content with servant.

And the prodigal son was given to answer the question, when we return, when we come near, do we come near as servants, do we return as servants in the kingdom, or do we turn as brothers and sons? And Joseph said to them, fear not for am I in the place of God, as for you, you thought evil against me. I'll admit that. But God meant it unto good to bring to pass as it is this day to save much people. We're back at that theme.

God will make all negatives positive. Now, therefore fear you not, I will nourish you and your little ones, and he comforted them and spate kindly unto them. Sometimes when you're the sinned against, when you're on the hurting end of a problem, and the other person truly is wrestling with their own guilt and their own shame and their own part of that. They need to be reassured, often again and again. They're forgiven. It's forgotten. There's no hardness in the heart. And you can come near. I want you near. I don't want you trillty clouds of guilt and I don't want you near. I don't want you trilly clouds of guilt and I don't want and shame and I don't want to trail clouds of just a little bit of still resentment and anger.

We're going to forget both of us. We're going to find the forgetfulness in the forgiveness. So when forgiveness is offered freely, accept it. And remember, there are no servants in the kingdom. There are only sons, there are only brothers. And that's a wonderful place. That's the last great truth emphasis to the book of Genesis, the book of family. Yeah. That verse 17, because I'm thinking too, that Jacob has to forgive the sons for what they did to Joseph. He does. Here he's saying, Joseph, forgive your brothers and gosh, Jacob must have had to.

You did what? You did what for these 22 years? I haven't had my son around me because for 20, you sold him and told me that he was killed and he's alive. Wow There's great irony when they've sold Joseph they come back to Jacob and he's weeping now they can Kind of end his weeping and the verse says they comforted him. I'd say well, that's that's an ironic word I'm saying, well, that's an ironic word. They comforted him about the loss of Joseph when they know he's not. Benjamin probably didn't know.

Maybe Benjamin all his life. I don't suppose Leah knew. That would have been an interesting meeting to go back when Jacob Leah, they all, the whole family, finds out. And they have to, they have to say what they did and what's happened. And great hurt was done to Joseph and to Jacob and to Jacob and to Benjamin. And great hurt requires great forgiveness. When you were saying except forgiveness when it's freely offered, the verse that came to mind to me that I missed something profound in this for so

many years when Alma is talking to the Zoramites who on the Ramie Umptum said, that has made it no none to us. There will be no Christ. Right. And so Alma goes through these texts from the plates of brass and says, look, God will have a son. Look, look at all these verses, God will have a son. Look, look at all these verses about God will have a son. Well, in Alma 33, 16, for behold, he said, and this is Alma saying, Zenoch spake of these things. So this is Zenoch. Thou art angry, O Lord, with this people, because they will not understand the immerses, which thou hast bestowed upon them because of thy son. And I always read it saying,

oh look, he's saying, see, God will have a son. Your doctrine on the rami up to him was wrong. But I miss that beautiful phrase. They are angry at the Lord with this people because they will not understand thy mercies. But if I could improve on that verse, I would say God weeps when you don't understand that. Yeah. That verse says he's angry. I'm not trying to correct the book of Mormon. Right. But I'm saying I think you can improve on it. In this case, it is a weeping. Yeah. I don't want you to carry this. Let it go. Don't you understand my mercy? Yeah, my mercy. I were brothers. I don't want servants. It pains me for you to think that I would take vengeance on you, or that you don't understand

for the last 17 years. I forgave you. I forgave you before you even know who I was. Mike, I've heard you talk about in the past this idea of twice blessed. I think it's an old quote that you used to teach with. Can you bring that back up? That's from the merchant of Venice. It's Shakespeare, and Shakespeare always has the ability to say beautifully what needs to be said. So here is the speech. It's given by Porsche when Schylock wants his pound of flesh. He wants vengeance.

He wants revenge. And Porsche, the woman, the lead, is trying to show him there's a better thing than justice. And so she says, the quality of mercy is not strained. It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven upon the place beneath. It is twice blessed. It blesses him that gives and him that takes. That's what the meaning twice blessed is. It means both parties are blessed by it. The one who receives the forgiveness and the one that gives the forgiveness. Joseph teaches that really beautifully. And then the second part of that quote really fits Joseph because Joseph is in a position of power over his brothers.

Shakespeare says, "'Tis' meaning mercy, "'Tis mightiest in the mightiest, "'it becomes the throne at monarch better than his crown. "'His scepter shows the force of temporal power, the attribute to awe and majesty, wherein thus sit the dread and fear of kings. But mercy is above this sceptred sway. It is enthroned in the hearts of kings. It is an attribute to God Himself, and earthly

power da venshow likeest gods when mercy seasons justice. Therefore, though justice be thy plea, consider this, that in the course of justice none of us should see salvation. We do pray for mercy, and that same prayer doth teach us all to render the deeds of mercy. I wish I could write like that. That's a lovely exclamation point on many stories. You know, there's reconciliation, like I say, between Sarah and Hagar, between Jacob and Esa. Twice blessed. Twice blessed. It's twice blessed. It blesses the person who gives it, and it blesses the person who receives it. And it's easiest to give when we tie it in with the other great principle of Joseph's life. God's going to make it all the negative is good. So no matter what people do to hurt you, no matter what happens, if you just stay, stay on the path, God will make it good. Life is fair. Life is just, or at least eternity is. And it's going to be that way because God has that power and ability to make it all that way. This is

the plan of happiness, and we got it, and he wants this happy, and that's how it's going to end. It seems like a critical paradigm, Mike, is the idea of, if I forgive, I'm not giving up something that I deserve. I'm actually choosing to bless my own life. Just, it seems in forgiveness that I'm sacrificing so much to forgive someone, when if you can change that paradigm, that twice blessed, you're actually choosing a blessing. Yeah. And it's hard.

Forgiveness is hard. You know, Joseph, I don't, we don't know what he felt all those years. I think probably hearing his brother's agony over it, touch something in him. And that's that first weeping that he gets. You talked about creating a space in yourself. And I wonder if it took Joseph 22 years to get to the point where he could say, you know what, maybe God did this? Maybe God, are those beautiful verses when he names his sons? Yeah, what when he says, God did send me before you to preserve life. God sent me before you. It was not you that sent me, Hither, but God. Maybe it took a while to get to that place and say, maybe this is how I can make sense of all of this, or this

is the design of God all along. I wonder if it took time. Yeah, and I assume it did. It would have been nice to have interviewed Joseph at year 10. How's it going? How are you feeling? I'm feeling about this. And we, how's your family? Right, yeah. We might see a little bit different viewpoint,

but he does through all those years, and we talked about that principle. If you find yourself leaving the unexpected life, make the best of it and don't get mad at God. I wanted you to talk about Judah, the great great grandfather of Jesus here, offering himself and where he says, how can I go to the Father and the Lamb not be with me? Do you remember teaching that years ago? I don't want to read it that this is the

meaning of it, but I try to always get inside into the Father and the Son. The purpose of the Scriptures is to answer Pharaoh's question that you'll be talking about, I think next week, the theme of all Scripture ironically is given by Pharaoh when he says to Moses, who is the Lord that I should obey his voice? I know not the Lord. So the purpose of Scripture is to learn to know the Lord, so we will obey his voice. The Scriptures are the answer to Pharaoh's question, let me introduce you to him.

And if you know this God, you will want to obey him and worship him. If you really know what he's like. So the story of Judah pleading for his father and his brother, sometimes I like to think of Jesus standing before his father pleading for all of us saying, I will abide instead. Take me instead. Take me instead. And let Michael go up with his brother and let Michael go. I like the up, you know.

Let Michael go up and be with his father. So in a sense, Judah pleading for him. I'm not saying this is Messianic in any way. I don't think it is Messianic. It is a brother pleading for his father who loves this child. He's a brother pleading for his brother. And in his mind, he doesn't know Joseph put the silver cup in there. You know, he doesn't say, oh, the little eclipsed a maniac. Let's stay. Oh, good ridance. We finally got rid of Rachel's other son. He really pleads for him.

And I think, due to in that plea, has echoes of the Savior pleading for all of us because he knows the distress of his father if we don't return. And so take me. I will take the consequences and let them go free. I love that principle of how shall I go up to the father and the lad not be with me? How can I return without him? There's a little bit of, in my mind, you know, I don't, obviously I don't think it was meant this way, but I hear a little John 17, the great intercessory prayer. We might not say that the Judah is a similitude of Christ here, or a foreshadowing, or a type of him, but we would say Judah would have an understanding of the heart of Christ.

I can hear that the Savior said, do you understand me now, Judah? Do you understand my heart? Because your heart is with my heart in this thing, concerned for a father who loves his children and the willingness to pay whatever price is necessary in order that the lad be with me. You see the connection with Christ lineage from the tribe of Judah. Yeah, I think it's okay to see there. What were the other two things you want to do? Well, I've got, you know, it's in the patriarchal blessings that are given. Jacob gives E from an anacidor blessing and then he goes to all the others. You sense the tragedy of Ruben a little bit when he calls him the excellency of dignity.

Ruben must have been a really wonderful man, but he has that that he went and defiled Bill Ha and if Joshua is right that's an even worse thing. So the next principle I would say, and it's related to the other ones, is our interpretation of events and even prophecies, may change dramatically with time and perspective. So here's the most interesting of all the blessings to me. It's in verse 5 and 6 and 5 through 7. It's simmian and Levi's blessings. We usually go to Judah's blessing, you know, the scepter will not depart from Judah till Shiloh comes and Joseph's blessing,

the fruitful bow hanging over the wall. There's a lot of talk about that, but I don't think people talk about simian and Levi's blessings, and I just would point something out to you. So verse five, what chapter are we in again? Chapter 49. Diana is raped. She's the younger sister of Leah's family, Jude and Sam. So they go up and they trick the little village where she was not only raped, but they still have her. She's been kidnapped.

And they trick them into getting circumcised and then they go in and they massacre all the men. You know that story. It's Jacob is referring to that moment. You know, Genesis is a violent world. It's not a safe world. And so he says, Semian and Levi are brethren instruments of cruelty are in their habitations.

They killed innocent people. O my soul, come not thou into their secret. Under their assembly, my honor, be not thou united. For in their anger they slu a man and in their self will they dig down a wall. Perceded be their anger, for it was fierce and their wrath, for it was cruel. I will divide them in Jacob and scatter them in Israel." Now that sounds like a curse, doesn't it?

I read it for you. I say, that sounds like a curse, doesn't it? I read it for you. I say, that's a curse, but look at in verse 7, I will divide them in Jacob. Now who's the descendants of Levi? Well Moses and Aaron are the descendants of Levi. And what happens to the tribe of Levi? Where is their inheritance in the passing out of tribal inheritances in the land? They're spread among everything, aren't they? They are divided in Jacob and scattered in Israel. But is it a bad thing or a good thing? That's where the priesthood is out to bless all of the tribes. That's where the priesthood is.

So the actual fulfillment of Jacob's blessing that I don't think even he realized when he gave it, it sounds like it's a really bad thing as you read it in Genesis. But when you get later on in the Old Testament and you realize that the Levites, for their devotion to God, are given the priesthood and are scattered in all the inheritances of the other tribes in order to bless them with the ordinances and the sacrifices, it is not a curse at all. It really is a blessing. So sometimes our interpretations of events may change dramatically with time and perspective. The fulfillment of cursed, you know, it sounds like a curse. But even God can turn curses into blessings. He can do that in the way they are divided and scattered. It's a good

dividing and a good scattering for them. Yeah, that's the theme of today, isn't it? The worst of things. The Lord can turn it around. It's Isaiah's beauty for ashes idea. Yeah, it is. Well, maybe one last final thought. Joseph teaches us a lot of things, and there's a phrase that is used of Jacob and of Joseph. Joseph in Genesis 50, you know, we didn't go there, but that's okay. In the JST, I'll just pull one thing out of that that I really, really love. So I'm in Genesis 49, 33, Jacob's dying. He's given all his children blessings

or a curse that turns into a blessing. And in verse 33, when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed and yielded up the ghost. And I just love this Old Testament expression. And was gathered unto his people. And so my last principle is death is but a gathering unto our people. And a lot of us have, you know, this emotional thing for me, I debate whether I'd even try and do this. There are people on the other side of the veil that we really want to be gathered to.

And I love that phrase. Death, where is thy sting, Paul asks. And I would say to Paul, I know where it is. I know where death sting is. It's right here in my memory and in my heart. I know this thing. But one day, we will be gathered unto our people, mothers, fathers, siblings, children, spouses. We go to the Joseph Smith translation. Genesis 50, 24 through 38. Joseph is now old and he is dying and he gives all these predictions. You know, there'll be a Moses. he'll take you out when Moses comes. When you go back to Canaan, you take my bones with you. In verse 24 of Genesis 50 in the JST, at the back of page 799, okay. And Joseph said, and it was brethren, I die. And go unto my fathers fathers and I go down to my grave with joy. It's just a beautiful thing.

It's a beautiful thing because of the reunions, you know, talk about reconcilations and reunions. That's got to be one of the most beautiful to be gathered to your people and go down to your grave with joy, to go to your fathers. And I think to be able to say to the fathers, as Joseph would be able to say, in which I hope to say to my fathers who gave me the inheritance, the birthright I have, the right to gospel

truth, the right to all the beauties of the gospel truth, and many other blessings, but especially the blessings of truth. And a love of God that came from my first ancestors that accepted the gospel. I was handed down to them to my mother, my mother, to me, that one day, I think Joseph could say to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I accepted the gift. I have not broken the chain. You can say Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim. I have not broken the chain. I passed down the birthright. I gave the inheritance. I passed on the gifts and the covenants that you gave to me. I think he's also saying to his children, E from Anasa, you too must pass it on. You too will pass it on.

I can see that my children have accepted it. So if I were to die today, I would be gathered to my fathers. I would be gathered to my people. And I would go down to my grave with joy and be able to say to them, I passed on the gifts. My children believe they're faithful. I know a lot of people try and sometimes the children don't accept the gifts. And eventually Ephraim is going to be a mess in the Old Testament, the descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh. But at least Joseph has Paul fought a good fight, finished the course, kept the faith.

And so he goes down with joy. And that's what we all want to say. When we're gathered to our people, I kept the faith. I passed on the gift. I accepted the gifts. I did my very best to pass it on to the next generations. And every generation has to decide will they accept those gifts or not. My patriarchal blessing ends with that idea. I bless you with a spirit of Elijah, it says, that you and your posterity will render and fulfill the promises made unto the fathers,

that thou mayest yet meet with them in the resurrection of the righteous with the hand of fellowship, love, and great rejoicing together. Wow. So I think one of the last great beautiful messages of Joseph and Jacob is that how to die. I want to be gathered to my people. One person in particular, you know. Yeah. You know, we started out talking about how these are stories

of families, of husbands, of wife relationships, of parent-childs, of siblings. And isn't it wonderful that even though those relationships are so rocky in these chapters, that this is what he is excited about is to be gathered onto his people in Jacob's case And then for Joseph where do you ever see that phrase? I go down to my grave with joy Right, isn't that something? And that's the JST I'm grateful he gave us that that little yeah to me that's the most important addition of the JST

You know we go to some of the other things, the prophecies of the coming of Joseph Smith, but the one that I love most is that phrase. I go down to my grave with joy. I'm not going to be ashamed when I stand before them. I really want to end on a high note, but I did want to ask you because I've had students ask me and they've said, Hey, my patriarchal blessings is I'm the tribe of Dan. And when I look to see what blessing Dan was given, and usually I'll just say, where you

got to read your own patriarchal blessing. Yeah, if I had a son who was given a Dan as a patriarchal lineage, what we don't want to do is to put some kind of hierarchy of They all have responsibilities They all have the blessings of Abraham Isaac and Jacob all of them as does Ishmael. Yeah, he's from Abraham Yeah, ishmael fulfills the Abrahamic covenant Islam is a fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant the Quran the prophet Muhammad, is a fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant that God will bless through the lineage of Abraham, all the nations of the earth. And Islam has been a great

blessing to millions, billions of people for, you know, 1400 years. They also fulfill it. The Jews fulfill the Abrahamic covenant. Christianity fulfills it. Three great religions arose out of Abraham. And those are the blessings that are most critical. But the names of them, you know, I think our Moses is going to give another set of patriarchal blessings in Deuteronomy and sometimes I go there. So here's Ruben in Deuteronomy 33. There are six let Ruben live and not die and let not his men be few. That's a beautiful blessing. That you would have posterity and live, live how? You know where you can interpret that. Verse 7, you know, Judah, hear Lord the voice of Judah, bring him unto his people. Let his hands be

sufficient for him. Be thou I help to him from his enemies. You leave I you know who gets the curse right? But in chapter 33 of Deuteronomy verse 10 the Levites they shall teach Jacob thy judgments and Israel thy law They shall put incense but you don't offer the sacrifices. Benjamin, the beloved of the Lord shall dwell in safety by him, and the Lord shall cover

him all the day long. That's a beautiful blessing to apply to somebody from Benjamin. Verse 18, Zebulon, he said, rejoice, Zebulon, in thy going out and Izekar in thy tents, they shall call the people unto the mountain. Zebulon and Izekar, are, say, well, you are to rejoice and invite people to the mountain of the Lord. There they shall offer sacrifices of righteousness, for they shall suck of the abundance of the seas and of treasures hidden in the sands. And of God, blessed be he that enlarged, God. He dwelleth as a lion and humbles, teareth the arm with the crown of the head.

You get them all and you'll find positive things to a God still in verse 21 with the heads of the people. He came with the heads of the people. He executed the justice of the Lord and his judgments with Israel. Do it on me. 33 is great text to put side by side with those patriarchal blessings in Genesis 49, because that helps a lot. And that's Moses giving each of the tribes a blessing. I'm looking at all the footnotes. There's about six to do to our army 33 on in Genesis 49.

Oh, naftily satisfied with favor, full with the blessings of the Lord. Asher, let Asher be blessed with children. Let him be acceptable to his brethren. I don't think anybody needs to feel somehow I'm not from Ormanasa. I'm naftly and that somehow that's a diminishment in any way. You are representing that tribe because they all are represented in the restoration. And they all were going to do good things.

They would all fulfill the Abrahamic covenant. They're all House of Israel. They're all House of Israel and there are positive things said about all of them. Like I say even the curse Yeah, I believe it is a blessing. Yeah, even Levi. Yeah. Oh, well, thank you for covering that Mike, this has been just an absolutely wonderful day. Um, wow. I an absolutely wonderful day. Um, wow. I, I, I love the story of Joseph before. All right. I thought it was one of the greatest stories ever told.

And I just, I feel that, I feel that even more so now. I'm so glad you said to mark all of the weepings because, and I think those are probably part joy, part sadness, part. I'm so glad we're reunited. There is so much that came into each of those weepings, I think. That was really fun to mark all of those. Relief? I don't weep as much as I wish I did.

Sometimes I think it's a gift. There is a beautiful Jewish story about Adam and Eve when they leave the garden, and God says to them, you are going into a world of incredible pain and challenge and difficulties and your lives are going to be hard and sometimes bitter. So I brought you a gift. Look, he holds out his hand and there's a little pearl in them, a little clear pearl in the palm of God's hand.

And they say, what is this? And God says, it is a tear. It is a tear. And when life is difficult for you. Now, when your heart is full, these pearls will fall from your, and you will be comforted. It's a beautiful, little Jewish wisdom. Tears are a gift from God. We cry a lot of different tears, don't we? Mike, before we let you go, I think our listeners would be interested in your thoughts on where

your your scholarship and your education and your faith. What that journey's been like for you. I think all of us have our our challenges. I was in my patriarchal blessing since we kind of talked about those. I was blessed with a believing heart. And it's a good thing because I also have a question in mind. And sometimes the believing heart and the questioning mind have some interesting conversations with each other. The Old Testament can spark a lot of those interesting things, you know Wherever the heart says yeah, the flood was universal over the whole earth. You know in my mind says

Do you know how now impossible that really is we need ten aircraft carriers to hold all those animals? So occasionally my mind has to Tell my heart we need to look at this with reason. And sometimes my heart has to say to my mind, just have to trust me here in some of these issues. I have a wrestle with just about every issue in the church that people wrestle with. And that is kind of why I did this last little book that you talked about holding on. My tactic usually isn't that I'm always going to be able to resolve all

the issues in church history or some social issue today or some scriptural problem. What I want to find are strategies that help me just to hold on. And that whole idea in my life of holding on comes from the Old Testament, from all books, Habakkuk. How many people ever read Habakkuk, you know, that Habakkuk is wrestling with understanding God and God's ways. He has questions. And He wrestles with them. We all have questions and we wrestle with them. It's okay to have questions. It's okay to wonder about the Church's stand or are the imperfections?

I have learned to live with imperfect scriptures, imperfect people, imperfect prophets, imperfect me, imperfect organizations. I'm okay with it and Habakkuk ends he doesn't get answers to all his questions he's he's told by God trust me you'll have to live by your faith and sometimes faith is like a tiny tiny little ledge on a high mountain cliff. It's not a wide road. It's a tiny little cliff. And Habakkuk says, God will make my feet like Heinz's feet. Heinz is a deer, an eye-bix who can walk on the tiniest little leges of rock.

And there have been times in my life where my faith felt like Habakkuk's high places. He will cause me to walk, give me Heinz's feet that I may walk on my high places and not fall off. I just have learned to hold on sooner or later things, the path widens.

You know, I haven't been walking on a ledge, a tiny ledge on my life. But I know that it's like to walk on a tiny ledge and have the road widened and go back and it goes back to a tiny ledge. And so we just hold on. I'm grateful for Habakkuk's image. It's a beautiful image.

I try to help people. The road will widen. There's a Ingenisus, a beautiful thing that the servant of Abraham says when he's going to get Rebecca And he finds her. You know she waters a camel. I'm sure you talked about the 10 camels and and he says, I being in the way,

God led me to Rebecca, to my master's brethren. And I like that. I being in the way. If I just stay on the path, God can lead me. And so I say, every good thing

you want in life is on the path. Every good thing you want is on the path somewhere. Now it may not be at the position on the path that you want it to be on. It may be way down the path. But if I leave the path, God can't lead me. He can only give me all my heart desires if I stay on the path. I'd really love that phrase. I be in the way God led me. So we want to stand the path. I'm in the path narrows. And it't think seem like I can progress or move anywhere. Well, maybe I won't progress

For a while I just hold on I just take those hinds feet God gave me and I I just I just hold on now. We've all seen images of mountain goats and Ibix. Every time I go to Israel to the Judean wilderness, I am hoping to show the people the Ibex on the narrow ledges of the cliffs. So they have a good visual of Habakkuk and they have a good visual for their lives of what they need to do. But I do know what it is to wrestle with issues

and to feel that fear that comes into your heart. What if it's not true? What if you know what? I don't like this position. I you know it to be angry even, angry at God, angry at the church. I have all those things. I know very deeply by personal experience. But I have the believing heart. So, yeah. So you stand the path. But I love that. Every good thing you want in life is on the path. And maybe President Nelson would say on the covenant path, right?

Yeah. Yeah. We just stay on it. Yeah. The good things are there eventually. And, you know, in Islam, you build stay on it. Yeah, the good things are there eventually. And in Islam, you build your own path. In Christianity, it's the narrow path you want to be on. In Islam, it's the broad path you want to be on

because you build it and the path into heaven lies over a chasm, kind of like Indiana Jones, you know. And you build it by your good deeds. And so the more good deeds you do, the more good thoughts, the better your life is lived, the broader the path that walks you into heaven. So in Christianity, I want to the path into heaven is one you will build yourself and every good deed makes it wider and wider. Interesting. How beautiful. Yeah, I love a lot about Islam. Ishmael gave us good things. He also like a safe fulfilled that the Abrahamic covenant, Islam is a fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant. Wow, John by the way, what a day.

Wonderful. Wonderful day. We love having Mike here because you just know it's, you just know this is, we don't need a gush. We're grateful for you Mike. We love having you here. Thank you for letting me come. comments. Always nice to feel useful. When you're 72, you need to feel useful. You're not as useful as you used to be unless you're present Nelson. Yeah. He said you're just a kid. What do you? Yeah, he was. He went just getting started. Well, thank you for everyone for listening and enjoying this time with Dr. Wilcox with us. We're grateful for your support. We're thankful for our executive producers, Steve and

Shannon Sorenson and our sponsors David and Verla Sorenson and we hope all of you will join us next week for another episode of Follow Him. Thank you.