Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Genesis 5, Moses 6 -- Part 2 : Dr. Jenet Erickson

Episode Date: January 16, 2022

Dr. Erickson returns and teaches that emotions and sexuality are given as gifts by a loving God. We also discuss Enoch’s vulnerability, restoring eternal vision, and displacing shame in our lives through Jesus Christ. Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/episodesFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive ProducersDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: MarketingLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Rough Video EditorAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsKrystal Roberts: French TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. And then we get to move right on to Enic. So we've laid this foundation. This is who you are. And here comes Enic. And he's journeying, right? And it says the Spirit of God descended and said, Enic, and what's going to be there in 27?

Enic, my son. The very first thing, Moses, my son. Yes, Joseph, my son. Identity at the very core of this thing is we cannot change that identity. Nothing we can do can take us. Nothing our children can do can take them from being ours. And that having that beautiful relationship, right, established at the very core, nothing you can do

will take you from being mine and my love for you. So then he says, my heart, he says repent. And then look at these, look at these phrases, the very end of 27, their hearts have waxed hard. Their ears are dual of hearing and their eyes cannot see a far off. And then coming back to President Nelson teaching us what metaneo, metaneo means and that it's this change and he said it's a change of mind, a change of hearing, a change of seeing, a change of heart. And the Lord is saying, I mean, you're thinking of these people and you're like, apathetic,

they can't hear, they can't see, they're hearts are hard, right? And that's me, that's all of us, right? And that's me. That's all of us, right? And the Lord saying, here is the answer. It is repentance. It is metanoel. That's what Christ promises us. I will change your heart. I will enable you to see all things and new. John, as you read from the Bible dictionary, right, and fresh view of God, a fresh view of oneself. Now, when I got to these verses, I read the word angry, and I don't know if you feel this way, but I'm sensitive about the word angry, and I'm sensitive about reading that God is angry. And I kind of want to be like, I'm afraid of anger, right? I'm a little bit afraid of anger. I'm glad you're talking about this, because I get this in New Testament class. When Jesus cleansed

the temple, was he angry? Ah, yes. Yes. And John, I'd love to hear how you teach that. I, as we've been working on the issue of sexuality in our state, my wonderful state presidency has been, he's been so clear in saying passions are given to us as gifts. Sexual desire is a God-endowed gift. And then the Lord says, passions are to be set within the bounds I have set. And so I think we tend to say about sexuality or anger, stop it, control it, get rid of it, don't do it, don't look.

And that's all we say, right? Stop it, control it, get rid of it, don't do it, don't look. And that's all we say, right? Instead of emotions are given, and this is just all over in the parenting research, the importance of identifying and talking with children about feelings. Maybe in the last 10 years, like the strongest research suggests the importance of identifying and talking about emotions, including the emotion of anger. And I love that we get to read that God was angry. That all emotions, passions are given to us as gifts to teach us. Anger can lead us to see the truth about moral violations, to see them clearly when there

has been a violation of something moral, right? When there is a wrong done to us or done to others, anger is a natural emotion that can lead the mind to action. What it asks of us is what are your motivations for that anger? What are the motivations of God in this anger here? Why? What is it about him? Is it about him, Hank? Because you and I describe, right? That child says no, and my feeling can be anger-insensed at your right disrespect for me. You've insulted me, right? And then it's

all about me. And that emotion of anger is outside the bounds that God has set, because And that emotion of anger is outside the bounds that God has set because it is not in that purity of changing something that is wrong for the good of others, for the good. Yes. And so here's the Lord. I do think anger has played a very important role throughout history for positive social change. It was it's when there's abuse going on, it's a natural feeling. I think when there's a violation of covenants of chastity, for example, as spouse who's been betrayed, those feelings of anger are very natural. And they can have a rightful place.

I think God is teaching us. They can help us see a moral violation, something that has been wrong. And what's important is that purity of heart, right, about where that within those bounds, where that emotion is coming from. His fierce anger is coming from his fierce love. Yes. Right. For his children. You know, Jeanette, what you said reminds me of like keeping things within bounds. When reminds me of like keeping things within bounds. When Alma talks to his son, Shiblon,

he says, I just love the word bridal, all your passions. It wasn't destroy your passions. It wasn't deny your passions. It wasn't, it's wrong to have passions. It was bridal all your passions, comma, that you may be filled with love, which is so interesting and so different. And so when you were saying that, I thought, yeah, maybe the passions, they're in control. And maybe anger, can there be angry that's angry, but I'm in control? I'm not, oh, you are out of control. We will use that phrase, right?

And I'm just, boy, I'm just throwing it out there because it's always an interesting discussion and sometimes a disputed discussion about does God get angry? What does that mean? What does it look like? Is it the same kind of anger we have? I mean, I'm curious what you both think about that,

the cleansing of the temple and that kind of anger and maybe that I mean, I'm curious what you both think about that, the cleansing of the temple and that kind of anger. And maybe, maybe that's not for this podcast, but I'm just, I like what you said, because that makes, that gives me a framework to say, it was anger. Look at the motive for Jesus. It was, this is my father's house. It wasn't about him personally. And there was, and it was controlled. Yes, yes, in those bounds, and that it has an important place, right? In stopping some pretty significant moral wrongs that were going on at that time, right? And an abuse of lower caste individuals, lower class individuals, a way of exploiting

for it, right? And the Lord does not look lightly on that kind of thing. And I think sometimes we can, right, someone who's in an abusive situation can feel afraid of really calling out what's happening because if emotions like anger and feeling like this is absolutely wrong and I need to stand up to this as opposed to turn the other cheek, right?

We can misuse teachings of the Savior to cause people to stay in places of abuse and the Lord is clearly saying there is a place for saying this is wrong and this cannot go on right. And he's feeling that way now as he's looking at his children harm one another and hurt one another. As I read ahead here, why is he angry? They repent not. Yes. That goes back to verse one.

Adam was called to teach people to repent. And now the Lord is upset that there is no repenting happening. Yes. And they're hurting one another, right? Their own flesh, using power against one another. Okay, here is verse 28. And I think, Hank, as you were just talking about the Lord's feelings of pain and anger, right?

Here it says, I created them, and they have gone astray and have denied me and sought their own councils in the dark. And so it's this it's that right that theme throughout the Old Testament of the unfaithful wife, right, you'll hear in Hosea, right, these and the Lord saying, do not deny me, do not turn away from me, do not betray me, right? I love how in the prodigal son's story it says, right, he came to himself the truth about his identity of who he is, which is what, you know, when you see a child struggle and as they're growing and developing, you're just all you're wanting for them is to come to themselves to their best selves, Your best self, which is what God wants for us.

Here we are with Enic, and he hears this call from the Lord, verse 31, and when Enic had heard these words, he bowed himself to the earth before the Lord, and spake before the Lord's saying, Why is it that I have found favor in thy sight and am but a lad? And all the people hate me for I am slow speech. Wherefore, meaning why am I thy servant? Here is his vulnerability. Totally unafraid to like show his mortality

and his fallibility. And like this is who I am. Are you sure? Right? This is me. And I just think that vulnerability, therein lies power. Weakness is honesty about who we are, right? This is me. And I just think that vulnerability therein lies power. Weakness is honesty about who we are, right? He's being honest about who we are. And when we are

honest about who we are and our fallibility and our weakness and our need for God, he can be honest with us about who we can become. But when we hide, we cannot hear him say what we can become. I love how Ann Voskamp, that great Christian writer, she'll say weaknesses do not debar us from mercy. They incline God to us the more. And children feel the same way. I think when we are honest about ourselves,

they feel trust in us. They can develop a trust. Mom and dad aren't gonna lie about their fallibility. They're gonna are honest about ourselves, they feel trust in us. They can develop a trust. Mom and dad aren't gonna lie about their fallibility. They're gonna be honest about it. And I can trust them. And I can trust myself in this process of growing. Okay, 32, 33, 34. Enic, go forth, open thy mouth, and it shall be filled.

And I will give the utterance. So here you said, I can't even talk. I'm slow of speech. And the Lord says, why are you afraid? I will open your mouth. I will give you utterance. For all flesh is in my hands. And I think how we fear, right? Whatever we're called to do, even as parents, I think maybe especially the fear there in that significant role in the Lord saying, I will give the utterance. It shall be filled. And then verse 33, choose ye this day. And whose words do you hear when he says that? Joshua. Yes, I love that John. I'm like,

Joshua knew Enix words like it's as if he heard he knew him, right? words like it's as if he heard he knew him, right? Choose you the state to serve the Lord God and then here's that identity again. Who made you? Who you are? Who's you are? Behold my spirit is upon you. Wherefore all thy words will I justify? Anvoss camp will write that the Lord ends with that. Walk with me. Here's An Voscap. She's not a member of our church, but a great Christian, but she'll say Be vulnerable enough to let the broken-hearted love come and let it fill your emptiness You never have to come you to overcome your brokenness to claim God's love His love has already overcome your brokenness and claimed you Grace doesn't ever negate transformation.

It always initiates it. She quotes this, she's on an airplane and sitting by a rabbi, and he said, we always talk about a strong belief in God. And then he says, who sits with the knowing that God's belief in you is even stronger than yours in him? Every morning that the sun rises and you get to rise, that is God saying he believes in you

and he believes in the story he's writing through you. God's mercies are new every morning, not as an obligation to you, but as an affirmation of you. That reading that brought me so much peace after many days of, I'm not the kind of mother I want to be. I'm not relating to them in the way I desire to. I'm not who I want to be and to have that sun come up every morning. I believe in you and in the story that I can write in the openness about your vulnerability,

in the openness of your brokenness. I believe in you. And then what happens is we get this beautiful temple reference in verse 35 and the Lord's spake and to Enic and said unto him, anoint thine eyes and wash them and thou shalt see. We were just talking, our daughter is going to be 12 going into the temple. This next year, she'll be 12 and so she gets to start doing baptisms and thinking about the temple. Obviously Obviously she will not be receiving her niche to read ordinances yet, but I talk to her about how all throughout the temple it's about seeing. The beautiful promise there that we are anointed to see, to discern, to

know truth from error and to and it's the Holy Ghost that's given to us as the great guide, as the great comforter, as the great teacher of truth in that process. And I am sure this is a reference to temple ordinances for Enic, not unlike what happens to every prophet with Jacob right at Bethel and Moses and Abraham, receiving temple ordinances, being anointed to be able to see, see a new. And then, first 36, what is he called? A seer. And here he is a seer.

That is how our prophets are. Now aren't you amazed in 37 and 38? I love that Scott Sorenson, that great religious education teacher, right? But he, he'll say, here was, here was Enic. He's slow of speech. And then what we see in what happens to him is he was so powerful in speaking the words of God that no one could write, no one could contend with him. They couldn't help but believe. And then his second one, all the people hate me.

And then what is the promise the Lord gives him? I will walk with you. I will be with you. And then that last one, all men were offended because of him. And then we see he built Zion, the city of oneness and pure unity. So you see how the Lord, like here's the walls of Jericho, right? They're afraid of the great walls as they're coming in.

We can't go into Israel. It's like filled with these giants and huge walls. And what does the Lord say? Come in. He tears the walls down. They didn't have to worry about taking the walls down. He tears them down. And here he's telling Enic, you say your slow speech

that all the people hate you and that they are offended, and this is what I will do with you. I was really touched to read a recent design article at Leahona about Spencer is his name, a grappling with same-sex attraction, and he describes just the pain of going to church sometimes, and he leaves after sacrament meeting and and just said Lord I I just can't go be there. No one gets me. No one understands me. I feel so different and as he's walking he hears the Lord say to him I Get you Spencer and you don't need anything else. I get you. I understand you. You hear that assurance over and over again when right here's Enoch. I can't do all these things. I am the Lord saying,

but it's me. I'll walk with you. I will write the story of your life. I will make you so powerful. I will put words into your mouth. I will open your mouth. Just isn't the Old Testament. Just the stories are just all about incredible redemption, right? This story of redemption over and over again. What God will do, what he can do. Okay, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43. We hear that phrase again. My father taught me in all the ways of God. And then 43, he is my God. Here's Enic. He's telling them their identity, the very first thing. He is my God and your God and ye are my brethren. These are the ones he was speaking to, right? Who have been hurting their own flesh and right, the willing power and doing things that were harmful to each other.

And he's saying, he is my God and your God and ye are my brethren. Why are you here, present Nelson, teach them their identity and their purpose. That's how we answer the questions. I loved in verse 38. They said, there's a wild man. We got to go see this guy. You got to come see this prophet. He's saying crazy stuff. He's saying crazy stuff.

My husband is a convert to the church. He joined the age 21 and grew up without any faith growing up. In fact, he would say his only exposure to Christ was evangelicals on TV. And it was so kind of, it was distasteful to him. And so that was all he knew, and then he's walking on the campus of University of Texas, and the Gideon's that wonderful organization, hands him a new testament that just has Psalms,

Proverbs, and the Gospels. And he will never forget reading the Savior's words. He didn't know him to be the Son of God then, but what a teacher here, this woman brought, and he says, no man can dim the, right? And Michael say, as the missionaries find him, and they're telling him about angels and appearance of divinity, he's sitting there

in that institute building at the University of Texas at Austin, and he's like, they're crazy. Wild man. Yeah. Wild man. And yet he would say, I could not deny their witness, meaning they spoke with such assurance and the Holy Ghost bearing witness, he couldn't speak against it. Even though in his mind, it's like, that's completely crazy, right?

And then going to church and experiencing the fruits of the gospel, he couldn't stop going after that first time of going and this wildness that becomes like the most beautiful thing to us, like I want that fruit. That is so, is it possible to have that kind of joy? Is it possible to have that kind of life? And so Hollywood would see us as while people, what?

And yet it's like the mommy bloggers, right? That New York Times piece that comes out at these women, not members, the church right, who are just professionals, who would like have this, they're kind of drawn to these Mormon, you know, these mommy bloggers. Why this life they have, the husbands and children and this caring relationship and this meaning and it seems so impossible and so foreign. It seemed like a wildness and yet it was so beautiful, right?

Like can this be real? And the Lord's saying, absolutely, this can be reality for you with me. Yeah, it does say that after he speaks to them, what is it, verse 47, Enic, speak forth the words of God, the people trembled, could not stand in his presence. They were something happened when he spoke. And here's the guy who said, I'm slow of speech. Right.

Like, wait, are you kidding me? Now we get to go next to verse 49. And I think this is important to talk through. Satan had come among the children of men out. This is, this is Enoch telling teaching the plan of salvation. He's saying Adam fell. And by his fall came death. And behold, Satan had come among the children of salvation, he's saying Adam fell and by his fall came death and behold Satan had come among the children of men and tempted them to worship him, right?

He's always this pulling us away from who we are. And then men have become carnal, sensual and devilish and are shut out from the presence of God. And I think we have to carefully look at that first for a long time, right? Christians would say we are so carnal, sensual, devilish that this insert passable, we cannot know the holiness of God. And this gap between us is so great. It's impossible to come to know him or be like him. And that's not what this verse is saying. I think the verse, this verse is saying what we learn about in section 93 that as soon as we choose to go against the light, right,

then light is taken, like we deny the light. And so we effectively, we have agency, but when we choose to not use it in ways that lead to truth and light, according to the truth, we give away our ability to exercise it. And part of the trap of transgression and sin, this is so true for all of us, it's certainly true for me, is that we begin seeing the world. When we sin, we begin seeing the world in ways that justify our transgressions and our sins. We find ways to justify why we did what we did. We find

ways to, right, to blame others or our circumstances, our genetic tendencies and so on. What happens is that we lose sight of the extent of our responsibility for our transgressions. And when we lose sight of that responsibility of our agency, we lose sight of the need for repentance, and we lose sight of the need for the Savior. And so it's so interesting, right? This, this don't feel shame about your reality and also be honest about it. Be honest about it because I can't help or heal you, but that's what the Lord does is He restores sight to us and breaks us free from the corruption of our justifying hearts. It's like, right, you see Adam and Eve do it. She brought it to me and I pertook. And

Satan came and tempted me and I pertook. And this displacement of responsibility is so natural to us. I think that's what it's talking about when we become carnal, sensual and devilish. We want to cover John, as you said. We want to cover our sins, quoting section 121. And the Lord doesn't shame us and say, see you're hiding, you're right. He says, come, be honest about what you yourself know. I am your advocate. I am a consoler and I speak the truth. Come, be honest about it, and I will heal you. A new heart I will give you. I will break you free of the bondage of the lies

about both the sin and the justification of your sin. So it's a real thing that need for full on change, right? And does he teach us that change is possible? You think of water to wine and leper to clean and blindness to sight and Alma changed and the sons of Mosaic and just the whole story of Christ is not only, his gospel is a gospel of change. And it's founded on that honesty about oneself in that process and his ability to give us a new heart,

new eyes, new mind, new breath that is like him, breaking us free from the bondage of that. The answer is at repentance, that's like him, breaking us free from the bondage of that. The answer is at repentance. That's verse 50, 52, 53. It's 57. The answer for carnal, sensual, and devilish is, so God told us all to repent. And it's everyone. All men, all men, all women. I Appreciate that earlier you quoted president Nelson talking about repentance is a process. I think that That was something I had to learn and maybe even Unlearn some things I had thought before because of

The idea oh if you repent and sin again, all the former sins return, I felt like it was this one time thing. And if I didn't do it right, it all comes back and it's all over. And we we tried to have a discussion about that verse last year talking about the doctrine of covenants, but over and over again, we are seeing here and hearing from living profits. Repentance is an ongoing process, a daily, what did President Nelson say, a daily thing, and that if you might think I repent it, but I guess I didn't do it right because I sinned again and all is lost. And that's what I worry about. No, no, no, no, just keep getting back on course. You remember getting baptized and that feeling of, I'm never going to sin again. I'm done. I'm done. Yeah. Right. And then within five minutes, like I've done something that I know isn't quite right. And

and and misunderstanding what baptism is, not the gate to perfection, like and you either, you know, you met messed up and now you're off, right? But that it is the pathway of repentance. It opens us up to that pathway of metanoia, right? Of continual renewal of being changed, of being taught, of seeing the world different again. And the adversary, he is always shaming us. He's, that's what it's all, right? The great accuser, his whole thing is to say see you've sinned, see you've done it wrong, see you.

This is who you are. The God of those nicknames, juxtaposed, advocate, and accuser. I've always thought how interesting one accuses, one advocates for us. Yes, so true John. And the advocate is not covering us from it, right? Like it's not a hiding, it's not saying,

oh, it wasn't so bad. It's not the Savior saying, oh, it's not a big deal. He never says that. He says, come, don't be afraid of it. I have the power to heal. I have redeemed it already. I will teach you. I will enable you to see this differently so that you become a new being who doesn't want that sin anymore. Article faith number four right there. Right. Our kids I'll say, okay, here we are again. It's article faith number four. We start with Adam. And then here we are with Enic. And then we're with Moses. And then we're with, right, we're Abraham. And we're taught

every single time we're taught the same, absolutely beautiful doctrine of Christ every time. And here it is, repent first believe and repent, be baptized. In the name of mine only be gotten who is full of grace and truth. And then ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and whatsoever you ask it shall be given you. That's that path, that beautiful covenant path of repentance. And so President Nelson said, you remember last conference when he opens and he says, I want you to listen for three, I invite you. He doesn't ever use the word want. He says, I want you to listen for three, I invite you. He doesn't ever use the word want. He says, I invite you to listen for three things

during this conference. Pure truth, the pure doctrine of Christ and pure revelation. And in that verse 51-52, we're given the pure doctrine of Christ. And then President Nelson says, the pure doctrine of Christ is powerful. It changes the life of everyone who understands it and seeks to implement it in his or her life. So that covenant path, right, is that believe,

repent, renew that covenant, receive the healing love of the Lord in your life, his healing blood through baptism, be given the gift of the Holy Ghost over and over again. It's interesting, as we talked about Hank at the beginning, this idea of children and relationship, parenting from relationship instead of role, like the list of things I do, instead of the list of things I do to this child, it's a relationship with them, but it's interesting that mothering, we know from the very beginning, an infant cannot grow outside of relationship. The brain develops that soul and body develops from within a relationship.

And it's this mother responding to infant, infant responding to mother. And it's this incredible process. And we can watch the brain develop. Now, technology enables us to do that. But it confirms that we cannot grow outside of relationship. And so, we're sent away from our heavenly parents. And what do they teach us about in being sent away? Covenants.

What are covenants? They establish relationship. They affirm and confirm our connection that the Redeemer made himself at, we talk about being at one with him, but he made himself at one with us in a relationship that from which we can grow and we have to have it. We have to have that relationship just like a child does, cannot grow outside relationships. We have to have it to affirm a confirm to us that we belong and are part of and you are safe to be honest You are safe to be vulnerable. You are safe to be open about your sins and weaknesses

You are safe to not hide from me and in the the moment you do, I am here. I am ever with you. And I will enable you to grow. And so they send us right covenants. And what's the promise that comes with the covenant of baptism? The gift of the Holy Ghost. We renew it every single week. And it's the assurance of his presence, the divine presence with us. Who is he, the Holy Ghost, he is the comforter, he is the consolar, he is the teacher of all truth. So he'll be teaching us, he'll help us see ourselves

honestly, he'll help us see others honestly and truthfully, like your mom was helping you see your dad, John, I love that, right? There's the Holy Ghost helping us see things honestly and truthfully and consoling us in that process and we grow and we grow and we grow and It's that beautiful process of the doctrine of Christ how he says Your present Elson it changes the life of Everyone who understands it and I think that it can be easy because we can make a quick list of faith-repenance baptism to make it sound like a checkbox list. But all of those are an ongoing process.

Growing faith in Christ. I mean, baptism, baptism, let me, can I say that, baptism is an event. I can point to when I was baptized, but the process of being born again is ongoing, right? And the process of following the Holy Ghost in my life is ongoing, and the Lord has arranged it so that every Sunday I'm going to come back to the sacrament table and continue the process. So it's helpful for me to see the first principles and ordinances, all of them as a process, even though it sounds like you might say baptism is an event. Well, it is, but, but President or Elder Christopherson talked about the ongoing process of being born again. It's kind of like, maybe this is a bad comparison.

I can have a temple wedding, but do I have a celestial marriage? A temple wedding is an event. Celestial marriage is the, is our ongoing process of making it to celestial, having the Holy Spirit of promise touch us. And anyway, so I'm glad we're bringing this up.

But I wanna think of the first principles as all of them as an ongoing process. Enoch uses some interesting pedagogy here because he says, he tells them the first principles and ordinances and then he says, he says, Adam had a question for the Lord. And it's almost as if he's answering the question his audience might have, which is,

why? Why do I have to do these things? Why do I have to repent? Why do we baptize? So he says in verse 53, our father Adam spake unto the Lord and said, why should men repent and be baptized? Almost as if his audience is like, I had that same question. Adam had it. He had that question. And then he said, okay, well, let me tell you what the Lord's answer was to why do we have to do these things? And he gives him what he calls in verse 62, the plan of salvation, right, unto all men. And the Lord saying, you are conceived in sin, meaning you have to have predisposition for sin, right? Hormonally and physiologically and all of those things so that you can taste the bitter to know to prize the good.

And all these emotions that we have that make our lives hard in a sense, right? Like, do we have to have these sexual inclinations? They're really hard, like, and they start when I'm this young and like, and I'm not going to get married for all, what in the world is that all about? Right? Or all the thing, my anxious personality, my super conscientious anxious person, I'm excited. They're like, why do I have to have this predisposition towards that temperament? And yet it's the way we can experience the truth and prize the good and that we need to be born again.

So it's so interesting that Elder Christophers, do you remember him telling the story about that mission president? It's very powerful. He describes this mission president who says, I fell into a dream in which I was given a vivid panoramic view of my life. This is a good man, right? Like he's a valiant person. I was shown my sins, poor choices,

the times I had treated people with impatience, plus the omissions of good things I should have said or done. A comprehensive review of my life was shown to me in just a few minutes. I awoke, startled, and instantly dropped to my knees beside the bed and began to pray, to plead for forgiveness, pouring out the feelings of my heart like I had never done before. Then he says, prior to the dream, I didn't know that I had such great need to repent. My faults and weaknesses suddenly became so plainly clear to me that the gap

between the person I was and the holiness and goodness of God seemed like millions of miles. And then he says he felt so grateful for Redeemer who would offer that to him. I also felt, he said, while in my knees, despite my feelings so in worthy, I felt God's love and mercy that was so palpable. And that's the two parts we have to hold together that are hard to hold together, but it's Adam's question. Really, like we need to repent, right? And the Lord is saying, yes, the quest is to become like we are.

And that is holiness. You wouldn't want anything less. Nothing less can be in my presence. Like any, as Elder Christ Arvison recently described, you know, he said, any corruption, quoting Hugh Nibbli, any corruption would corrupt eternity. Like it just, it would spoil it. It can't be there. And so we have to be changed completely.

And we hold together that need for absolute change and the promise that it is possible with him and his absolute love and mercy. That's what covenant means. I will never leave you. I will never leave you. I am here beside you. It seems to me in 53, Adam asks the question, why do you need, why do you need to repent and be baptized? And the Lord starts at the beginning, he says, listen, I wanted you born the way you were born. I wanted you to become mortal. I wanted you in this situation, so you can grow up and taste the bitter and prize the

good. I want you to be an agent to yourself, verse 56. I want you to have the freedom to choose. So all of this is, everything that's happened so far is really good, but I don't want you to stay that way. I don't want you to stay carnal and sensual and devilish. I want you to experience it, but not stay that way. So here comes verse 57. So now repent. So you can learn all the lessons from mortality, be cleansed from the problems of mortality and come back to me educated, right? Yes, yes, that's right. This is an educative experience, right? It's helping us taste bitter to know the price, the good, learning, growing with that covenant relationship assuring it.

Can we look at a phrase that I want to make sure we clarify for our listeners? In verse 55, it says, in as much as thy children are conceived in sin. Now, it's not sinful to conceive children. Right. And this has been interpreted that way, right? Right. It can be or that, oh, you know, I guess sexual behavior then is sinful. No, what is what do we think that means when it does I've always tried to explain maybe it means coming into a fallen world. That's what I would say to you. Is that what you would say? Okay. You're considered as much as I children are born into a fallen world. With predispositions or vulnerabilities or right. That they would that would incline us to doing things to tasting the bitter.

Yeah, I remember Robert Millett once in a class saying, raise your hand if you are responsible for the fall of Adam, and nobody raised their hand. And then he said, raise your hand if you have been affected by the fall of Adam, and everybody raised their hand. And so I'm thinking, all right, maybe that's what this means. We grow up, sin conceives in our hearts. We are fallen also. Gerald Lund talks about the fall of man and the fall of me, each of us have our own fall. And then a phrase that you've repeated, Janette, about 10 times today, which is one of my favorites, they taste the bitter that they may know to price the good. It's kind of their needs. This is just another

lehi saying there needs to be opposition and all things and here's why you would not know to prize the good if you had not tasted the bitter. Yes. And so it's not a fallet, right? Like it wasn't a mistake. That's what you're saying. This isn't a mistake. This is the plan. Right. To prize the good, tasting the bitter. Don't you love how how he emphasizes again. So it's like we have these. the fact is we're susceptible to sin. That's probably the not the right word. It's not predisposed or but we're susceptible to it are like right hormones and physiological and all that stuff and

and genetics and right that we're susceptible to it. And that's that's being conceived into that susceptibility, if you will, like we're, but then there he says agency, wherefore, because what we can do, right, is we can say, but I had to do it. I had to do that thing, right? And it wouldn't make sense if, in fact, the possibility of change is that magnificent. It would not make any sense if we didn't have

complete agency. Now, right, if we didn't have complete agency. Now, right, if we didn't have the ability to choose otherwise. And so, I love how this Richard Williams who talks about this so powerfully, but he'll say, we are in the process of being human. We are continually acting, accepting, rejecting, taking up the world or a thought or feeling, accepting or giving ourselves over to an idea or an interpretation, a mistake, a priority, a bit of like we're always acting, what we're picking up, what we're holding onto, what we're letting go of, what we're right, we're always in the process of acting and the Lord is teaching us how to become pure so we can use that agency

purely in pure ways. It's so powerful because it tells me why. Here's here's Ty Mansfield struggling with LG right same-sex attraction and grappling with those issues that reality in his life. And the narrative that the world gives him is this is what you must do to find happiness, Ty. This is the path. The world offers all of us a narrative. You've got to predisposition towards addiction or you've got this, and this is the narrative of your life given that. Or in this case, you have this, right, this reality of identifying as gay and this is the narrative of your life. He's singing in general conference, fasted all day, comes there at the end of his fast. He says, the purse, the purse said, and there is this flood of love all around. He's grappling with, what does

this mean for my life? What guy love the gospel? How do I live the gospel? What does this mean? And this flood of love and a vision of love. And you read that story over and over again with individuals who, and all of us, we're given a narrative. And the Lord says, you are agents. And you can, you may have inclinations or whatever to all, to whatever things that can be a mix of both good and bad, right? My conscientious nature can be great and it can be a pain in the neck in some ways, right? But the Lord is saying, I can write the narrative. I will write the narrative of your life if, as he told, I stay with me. Stay with me, Ty. And so he will teach us to use our agency in ways that bring blessings.

We are never trapped. We have agency and so we can choose how we will relate to the realities of our lives. We have constraints, no question. We have limited choices, no question. We are never with fully without agency to act in how we relate to those situations. So I'm so grateful for the miracle of agency. It allows us to have a story that is rewritten every day that is right, a new narrative offered by Christ.

Yeah, anything get scrucial then that we come back to what you said in 54, 55, you are not a mistake. You are not a mistake. This was all done for a purpose. Now you're an agent. That's what I wanted. I wanted you to have your agency. And please use your agency to repent.

And please, and teach your children to repent. Yeah. And the interesting is, it says, teach these things freely onto your children. And it almost seems like vulnerable or openly, just openly exposed. Yeah, teach it. Make it true.

They know. Yeah. Yeah. Because shame is so big and real, right? Like I think of in addressing the issue of sexuality, but the fear of a child to come to their parents and talk about their struggles that way. I think because the adversary is whole work as the accuser and to shame us and to cause us to fear, you see that, you know, the woman brought to the savior, she comes in to that Pharisee's home

and she washes his feet and you see Simon look at her and he says, you know, the Pharisee says, And you see Simon look at her and he says, you know, the Pharisees says he, it says he's when he saw it. It's like he's even calling her an it and then he says, who, do you not know who and what manner of woman this is? For she is a sinner. There is the great accuser and I think our children ourselves, right? I have this problem. I have this weakness. I've done this thing. And what we hear in our minds, you are a sinner, right? You are this. You are defined by this.

And the Savior says, he turns to the woman and says to Simon, ah, so beautiful. See us thou this woman. You have called her a sinner. See us thou this woman. She is whole before him, right? Like she is defined.

Her identity is whole. Defined already. She is a daughter of divine beings. And then, and then he says to Simon, guess what? Her sins which are many are forgiven. For she loved much. She was honest about her need where you have been hiding your need.

So beautiful when you heard on this podcast, Stephen Harper saying how he loves a phrase relentless repentance. Relentless repentance, right? That is a, I love, it's that, I love repentance. And, and then he said something, I wrote it down when I listened to him on this podcast, he said, repentance is signaling to the Lord what we want him to do for us. That's what she is doing here. She is coming and signaling, I know you can. This is what I want you to do for me. And in that moment, right, her sins are forgiven.

She is whatever that means for forgiveness. It's her growth. She's growing in Christ. She is coming into holiness. She is coming into greater purity. And how the adversary would say, you are a sinner and the Savior sees to thou this woman. Yeah, I love that part of that story because everyone sees her. He's saying, no, you see her, but you don't see her.

Yes. You don't see what I see. Well, I loved what you said, Janet, when he saw it, is that what we're supposed to put on the other side in Jesus saying, this woman, that's amazing. And we're all sinners. I, how?

Yes. Yes. It's kind of like when, when, when John says things like, and the disciple that Jesus loved, I put in my margin, what doesn't really narrow it down very much. You know? Yes. Yes, isn't that the truth? Yes. Well, the sinners and he loves us all too. Anyway, he loves us all perfectly.

Oh, that's so beautiful. So there we get to that hank. If just having that whole mindset, then it says, therefore, I give you a commandment to teach these things freely and to your children. And it's that story for repentance, the need we have for him, that being honest, the fact that we are, we want to hide our sins, we want to cover them from the time where babies right? And he's saying, don't be ashamed, come bring them to me. I am here to heal them and make you whole. So it's and it

takes a lot of practice to do that. It's why that structure and heart, you know, Elder Anderson. He says, if you're not hearing the music of the gospel in your home and he says, if if the bass is in the family choir too loud and overbearing, if the string section in your family orchestra is a little too shrill or a little bit sharp, if those impetuous picalos are out of tune, be patient. If you're not hearing the music of the gospel, the good news, that path of repentance, that covenant relationship in your home, please remember these two words, keep practicing. With God's help, the day will come when the music of the gospel will fill your home with unspeakable joy. And for Lehigh, that music of the gospel is still coming about in his home, right? That music of the gospel in the in the plan for the redemption

of all of his posterity, that music of the gospel is still being, right, brought about in fullness in his home. We may not see it all in this life, but we will see it. Yeah, that word freely is fascinating to me because he could have said, teach these things under your children. Teach these things freely onto your children. It just means so much of be open, maybe with them, be honest, be vulnerable. Let them know that you have not lived a perfect life and that you've needed to repent. It's okay to let your children know that and that's hard for me.

It's hard for me, Hank, I think it's hard for all of us. Our natural inclination is not, right? And as a parent, you're like supposed to have all the answers, you're supposed to be the authority, you're supposed to be, right? These vulnerable children that you have the responsibility to save. I remember my dad talking about the first time he ever smoked to be, right? This vulnerable children that you have the responsibility to save. I remember my dad talking about the first time he ever smoked a cigar, right? And I was like, dad, you smoked a cigar.

He's like, oh yeah, I found my dad's cigars and I went and smoked cigar. I got so sick and he said, I thought I'd never do that again, right? And it was just a small little lesson, but it was good to hear. It was good to hear. It was good to hear that my dad had been a dumb kid.

I'd been a human, right? I'd been a mortal. Yeah. And Hank, I can throw in that my dad didn't have a word of wisdom. And he tried it in the Navy and just said, I didn't like it. And I mean, he tasted the bitter. He'd light of Christ, whatever. I didn't like it. And I mean, he tasted the bitter, he'd light of Christ, whatever. I didn't like it.

Maybe some people do and have to give it up, but it's just, everybody comes from a different spot. But that phrase tasting the bitter that they may know to price the good is so fascinating to me, because it almost sounds like they're supposed to taste the bitter. And you kind of don't want to go there, but you think, no, I guess we really are supposed to actually say, I don't want to do that again. You know, I did it, but I don't want to do

that again. Yes. Oh, and which is why, as we've said before right that elder Christ offers and saying ours is not a religion of rationalization or a religion of perfectionism It's this religion of tasting the bitter to prize the good. It's a religion of redemption redemption through Christ I thought a long time was there any other way like this path of dependence on another's holiness to make my holiness? Was there another way, like, could I have made my own holiness somehow, you know? And just to think, no, because it's a plan of love, like redemption by love, and that holiness is the path of love. And here this inexpressible love of a Redeemer, this is that, the plan of salvation is a plan of love where there is a Redeemer who's holiness and purity

redeems us, and then we become beings of love. Not the whole purpose, not being to become pure as much as to become beings of love, who can be in the kinds of relationships that define heaven because heaven is not so much a right it's a way of being in relationship. I was listening to to this chapter last night just because you know in our day and age I can tell my phone to read me a chapter and it'll do it, right? But the phrase at the end of verse 59, I thought was cool, enjoy the words of eternal life in this world and eternal life

in the world to come. It's like, we get the words of eternal life in this world, but but hang on because we're going to have the real thing in the world to come. Yes. This process is going to keep going on and on, right? This process of of becoming purified, born again. It is interesting that if you think about that idea of being born again, that is over and over again in these verses, right? As you've noticed in in 59 and then again, we have we have that talked about. I've thought about birth, right? You have Nicodemus saying, does this mean I need to come back in to my mother's womb and come? And be born, yeah.

And be born, yeah. And I think I just realizing, wow, what a mother is creating life. There's that placenta that's the source of blood for that life. And the water in which that infant is growing. And so we see water and blood. And it's all about creating life, not just the process of coming out, right? And remember, Elder Christophe,

remember in conference when we were sitting there and he's talking about the sacrament. And he says, I have spoken of receiving the Savior's grace to take away our sins and the stain of sin in us, but eating his flesh and drinking his blood, like that intimate, bringing it into our bodies in the sacrament is to internalize the qualities and character of Christ, putting off the natural man

and becoming saints. As we partake of the sac the Sacramento bread and water each week, we would do well to consider how fully and completely we must and have the opportunity to incorporate his character and the patterns of his sinless life into our being. So when we take the Sacramento, it's not so much, I've done this, and I've done this wrong thing and a time of shame.

But a time to say he has offered me his blood and his body into me that I can become like he is. I can become that pure and holy. It's that beautiful affirmation. And we are honest about it. We're honest about our need. And he says, I am here in you fully. Paul calls Christ the father of our salvation at times. And I think that might be here where you said he compares himself to a mother. You were born into this world by water, blood and spirit. I want you to be born again by water, blood and spirit. This time it's not the blood of your mother, physical birth, but it's gonna be the blood of your father.

So when you hear, when I see Christ being referred to as the father in scripture, I often think of this verse because he's, I'm providing the blood in your spiritual rebirth, just like your mother did for your physical birth. And it was you, Jenna, who talked to us about the Savior, often identifying himself in the feminine, right? How off I would have gathered you as a hen, gathered their chickens under

wings. And in this regard being, I am going to give birth spiritual rebirth to you. That is so thank you. I love that pattern, Hank, a father and mother participating in the salvation, right, in this process of exaltation. But that's how intimately we need the Lord. We need him that as much as like the placenta's blood feeding out, you know, like being the nourishment of life and that water in which we grow. that's how much. And when the Holy Ghost is given to us, that's what we're promised. That divine presence with us always, that, that closely.

And baptism then becomes, baptism becomes the day you became his, right? Just like your birth. When you, when you, when you, when my wife held those, those little babies in her arms, this is the day you became mine. And it seems like our baptism is the day we become his, born to him. The baptismal font represents a womb, right? A merst.

And here comes this. So beautiful. Brandy, child. We don't slap you and say, it's a girl, right? But we. Oh, yes. It's the idea of you're born. I've started this pattern from a few years ago when a cousin, my mom's aunt passed away. And she had been raising. She was a widow for years and was raising her daughter who had had a severe illness when she was 18 months old and her brain did not grow beyond that date. So she was handicapped in that sense.

And so Eileen is, you know, she's 68 now, I think, and so when her mother died, she'd been sleeping in her mother's room and so close to her mother. And the children, her siblings were worried when mom dies, what will Eileen do? How will this be for her? And so they were sitting in sacramening. She didn't cry. Eileen didn't cry through the funeral. She didn't cry at all at the very burial. She didn't cry during that process. And so they just didn't know what was going on inside of her. And as they're taking the sacrament that next Sunday where she had always sat by her mom and taking the sacrament, all

of the sudden tears start coming down her face. And her sisters look over and say, I lean, are you okay? I think feeling like, oh, all of a sudden it's hitting her. Mom is gone. And, and she just said the words, Jesus loves me. Jesus loves me. And I've thought, I want sitting beside my children as they take this sacrament more than anything to know. This beautiful ordinance is telling you, Jesus loves me. He gave his blood and his body for me. He assures me of his desire to work out my repentance, my growth, my becoming.

So I love that. That's beautiful, Jenna. In verse 60, it almost seems like the Lord is saying, leave it to me and the Holy Ghost. Right? You repent. If you do the repentance and baptism part, then the Holy Ghost and I, we can justify you and sanctify you. Like that's our role. So you don't have to worry too much about sanctifying yourself or justifying yourself.

You do the repenting. The Holy Ghost will do the justifying and I'll do the sanctifying. I love that hank. That's yes. Okay. Well, 63 is that beautiful verse that says, all things are created and made to bear record of me. And all things temporal and spiritual. In the heavens above, and which are on the earth, and things and spiritual in the heavens above and which are on the earth and things which are in the earth and under the earth all things bear record of me. My father-in-law is not religious but he loves nature and grew up, my husband grew up doing lots of things in nature with his dad and Michael tell our kids, granddad feels close to God in nature. And you'll

think we have we have words of Scripture. I just had this wonderful student Spencer Bergen write a paper about this. We have Scripture where we learn of God, right? We say you'll learn of God from the Scriptures. But the Lord is telling us you learn of me. Where else? Everywhere. Everywhere in creation, in creation, and he spent a row, we yearn for something that can approximate the grandeur of God. And in nature, we find it. You stand there in beautiful places,

the bottom of the Denali and Alaska, and all you can say is that is grandeur. And it reaches, it almost reaches God, right? It's, it almost. Alma teaches us that right, all things to note there is a God upon, even the earth and all things. And so Spencer writes, order, grandeur, form. These are witnesses of deity that come from nature.

Those beautiful words, order, grandeur, form. And next week when we talk about or in the next couple of weeks we talk about creation, why does he spend so much time in the temple teaching us about creation? I am creating you, spiritual creation, and line upon line, and holiness upon holiness, and truth upon truth, and line upon line and holiness upon holiness and truth upon truth and light upon light and in the end it is good it is complete it is whole so I just think all all around us when we see creation it is the story of our lives he's bearing witness of I am in the process of creating you. My friend Todd Parker gave a devotional at BYU, and he kept a list of just the creations around him

that he feels like testify of Christ. He said, consider the seasons themselves, right, as teaching about... We even call it fall. spring winter right spring this resurrection and summer right. He said the sun itself comes from the east. Christ will come from the east. The sun gives light in life to all things. It's heat can consume all things. He says those who live in Arizona understand that It does both the light of Christ gives life to all things people whose lives are full of light will be saved by the light as by fire and he says the universe

He said consider hibernation Every creature every squirrel insects snake or bear that hibernates and lies dormant during the winter, appears dead. Each one that comes alive again in the spring testifies of Christ and His resurrection, every tree, every plant, every leaf. He even says, when you go to bed at night, why do you go to bed at night? Because you're tired? No. You symbolically die every night.

And why do you get up in the morning and go to school? Or why do you get up in the morning to go to school? No. You symbolically die every night. And why do you get up in the morning and go to school? Or why do you good up in the morning to go to school? No, you symbolically resurrect every morning. And I remember asking him once, he told me, I think it was him who said, look at the 12 full moons of the year, right? We have 12 full moons every year testifying that the sun is still there, even though you can't see it.

Right? And we have 12 apostles who testify that they can still see the sun even though we can't, right? This, all things are made to bear record of me. It's fun to look around the world around us, isn't it? And to see symbols. That's a wonderful list. When you, as you were saying it, I was thinking, that adds whole new meaning to teach these things

freely unto your children. My wife consistently says to our kids, there's a spiritual lesson in that. Everything. Everything that happens. Everything that happens. They have to make fun of sometimes, right? They're like my kids. Let me guess.

There's a spiritual lesson. Yes. Let me guess there's a spiritual lesson. Yeah, let me guess. 64, 65 and 66 are Adam, right? Being taught these truths and then what does he do? He cried under the Lord, was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, carried down into the water, laid into the water and brought forth out of the water and then was born of the Spirit. And I just think it's so beautiful that this chapter we're not left with just the truths. We end with one who experienced it, like did it, right? And how the voice of heaven says, thou art baptized with fire. I'll never forget, President, or Elder Holland, this last

general conference, when he talked about the first great commandment to love the Lord right with all our hearts and then he says the first great truth right is that he loves us with all his heart with all his mind with all his strength and then he said this of course we are speaking here of the first great commandment given to the human family, to love God wholeheartedly without reservation or compromise, with all our heart might mind and strength. The love of God is the first great commandment in the universe, but the first great truth is that God loves us exactly that way wholeheartedly, without reservation or compromise, with all

of his heart might mind and strength. And then this is the important part that's so beautiful, this important for what we just read. When those majestic forces from his heart and ours meet without restraint, there is a veritable explosion of spiritual moral power. Then, as Tellyar Dichartin wrote, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.

Oh. Oh. Oh. I just, I was thinking about, right, my need for change that all the students that I, right, whether it's their grappling with who knows what, depression or, right, struggles with family or dating or whatever it is, and that need for power, that need for fire, and how he promises us here, your love for the Lord meets his love

for you. And there is an explosion of spiritual moral power. I kept thinking, you know, are we grateful? 24-year-old Joseph Smith gave us this. 24. Right. Right. Yeah. And this is just one chapter of so many.

Genesis 5 is what? 32 verses, this one is 68. And we get so much here. Rich, rich, beautiful truths, right, to bless our lives. So I think we have to talk about just a little bit like, why parenting? Why it's not so easy? Just teach these things for your leader, children,

and tell experience what Adam did, right? And Jennifer Finlayson-Five says this so powerfully, parenting is noble work because so often you are reaching through the dark, trying to figure out what it means to love this unique child with their challenges, strengths and desires, and how we need a big dose of self-compassion and compassion, right? We need in that beautiful process of trying to teach these things freely to this child. As we talked about, that infecting that relationship in a sense with our trying to have them be the evidence of our goodness. And when they choose a path that is painful to us,

that rejects that goodness, we can experience it as, them need to reinforce us instead of their journey tasting the bitterness. Get curious about their journey rather than fearful of their journey. And I appreciate that. I've noticed as a parent that when I try to force my children, I end up usually pushing them in the exact to the exact place I don't want them to go. When he says, teach these things freely unto your children. There might be a sense of teach, but don't force these things upon your children. Yes. Isn't it Elder Bednar who says that quoting that verses Nephi, right, you can bring it unto the heart, but not into the heart. And that is, Zank, you already said it, leave this work to me, right? Like we,

he is their child. And this journey has to be worked out, this process of salvation has to be worked out with them as an individual. We seek the Holy Ghost as the teacher. We bring it unto their heart in a sense. And when we don't have the Holy Ghost with us, which is going to happen all the time, we, we are have compassion with that process. And we return again, trusting his working out their salvation with them, not our responsibility for their salvation. Right? So sometimes my lack of faith in him makes me want to,

makes me want to take his spot, right? I'm gonna force these things and I then foster rebellion and resentment in my children because I didn't trust that the Lord would do his work with them. Does that happen to either of you? Or does, you know what? I think they look at us and they're like, I'm gonna see, do you love me?

Or do you love yourself in me? Do you love what you think is so true that you want this to be about your journey instead of my own? And so they're gonna, if they're smart and we hope they are, they're going to like differentiate themselves from us and be like, now I'm choosing a different way because I gotta know, is this about me or is this about you? You know?

And then usually when a child is resentful in my experience, when they grow up, they fight against the one thing that you, the parent, seemingly love most, which ends up being God and the church, right? So I'm going to use this power that I now have because you were forcing me, I'm going to use my power to fight back against you. It's a trap and it's based on fear really. Fear that they're going to make bad decisions, so I better force them to make good decisions, but God never does that to me.

He's never forced me to make a good decision. In fact, when you're forced to make a good decision, it's not even a good decision because you didn't choose it. Yes, that's right. If it's not chosen of your own heart, right? It's not going to bring the blessings. Yeah. Hank, don't you think so if we come back to the beginning of this, I feel like what the Lord is teaching me is that I parent with faith in the Redeemer. That is like unending. And that's something I renew every day. I renew his faith in me and my faith in him for me. And I renew that faith in what he is going to bring about in the lives of my children. And when I am in that place, I am not in the place of fear and coercion and control. Now, do I have to keep coming back to that? Yes, but he's saying this

This beautiful teaching about repentance is starting with you You are faith in me for you and your faith in me for them and you're faith in them Right, you're faith in there being able to work out this journey because of who they are Often when a parent comes to me with a concern about a Wayward child I almost always ask first like, what kind of person are they? Are they a good neighbor? Are they a good... So, you know, yes, they're very good person. I'm like, well, then sounds like God has their heart. The church might not have their membership record, but God has their heart. Yes. Yes. We can think the most important thing is doing those behaviors, right?

And you're talking about this heart, right? What a good person. This is a good citizen. This is a very good child. Was he a good neighbor? Yeah. Well, then I think you can trust the Lord on this, right? I think, yes.

I think parenting, if we infused it with more compassion for ourselves and for them, like it would just help us. And I think God is, when we learn about repentance, right, here's the God, the God our redeemer saying, my bells are filled with compassion for you. And I just know, I need forgiveness from him for the things I didn't know that I didn't know to do better, that I didn't know yet, I didn't understand. And I love how Jennifer Finlayson-Fifle say that we have to forgive life for its profound imperfection.

For me as a parent, for that child, and that that is strangely where our spirituality is. Isn't that amazing? It's in that compassion, in that forgiveness, in having compassion towards ourselves in our flawed state, forgiveness and compassion for them, forgiveness for ourselves, and that that is where spirituality is. You also mentioned forgiveness gen- just before we let you go, there's something to be said for when you become an adult, forgiving your parents for being imperfect. Yes.

Is it so easy to look back and go, wow, they were terrible. And I have a lot of problems because of this or such and such that my parents did. And perhaps we don't look upon our parents when we get in this stage of being our parent ourselves with as much compassion as we should. Hank, I love that you said that. I actually was going to write about this because David Brooks at the New York Times just wrote about this epidemic of adult children cutting off their parents saying, you failed me. And I think, right, and these are, he's talking about parents who tried,

these weren't addicts, abusive addicts who abandoned children, these are people who tried, who were trying. And I do think we have this epidemic of blame toward parents. And it's Satan, right, because it's trying to tell people they have no agency because of how you related to that, you're locked into this. And it is, I think it's not the path of repentance for that child either, right? Of healing. It's because when we, when we're blaming another, we have given another power over our own journey with Christ. And he's saying, he's saying, come, this is all a journey for all of us working together.

So I love that. I forgiveness, forgiveness and compassion for parents is the way to healing as a person yourself, right? It's an honest, it's a more honest place. I think you've got to get to a point all of us where, okay, maybe mom and dad weren't perfect, but here I am right now. I am now accountable for my own life

I have agency I want my kids to get to that point and to say okay My mom and dad weren't perfect, but I keep thinking of that talk that elder robins gave about take 100% responsibility and Yes, yes, yeah, I did yeah, your parents weren't perfect, so but now you are an adult Yeah Yeah, your parents weren't perfect. So, but now you are an adult. Yeah. And they weren't supposed to be perfect. I think that's the funny thing. Like somewhere we got this idea,

like they should love me perfectly and do things perfectly for me. And that's, they're just growing, they're growing themselves. It's like this amazing messy journey. Yeah. Yeah. Janet, Dr. Erickson, this amazing messy journey. Yeah. Yeah. Genet Dr. Erickson, this has been fantastic, absolutely fantastic.

And I can see myself going to my children to apologize and tell them that I need, you know, I'm going to need their compassion and grace. I think our listeners would be interested in these two backgrounds of yours, this secular education in marriage and family life, combined with your knowledge of the gospel, what's happened for you personally

in your own marriage and mothering your own family? Oh, thanks for asking that. I can tell you I woke up many nights after becoming a mother and I'd been a professor before that. I'd taught about parenting and family life and after becoming a mother and I'd been a professor before that. I'd taught about parenting and family life and I would wake up and I'd say, what was I teaching them? What was I telling them?

And because I think I came into motherhood with this idea, the list of things I was going to do in these little people who were going to just go right along with what I wanted and my working out their salvation, right? And I had, I knew all the right things and it has been such an incredibly growth inducing and precious experience to have them and my efforts to parent them work out my salvation. And to learn the truth about, here's my list of things, and yet this is all about the opportunity to know and love individuals at a most personal, deep, intimate level. And my list, my perfectionism, my behaviorism can come in and block my experience of them,

and our experience of Christ together. This is not me having them experience Christ. My way is us experiencing the redemption of Christ together. My efforts to have them feel and experience the gifts of the Holy Ghost through my own repentant heart, right? My own heart that loves the fact that he has redeemed me and he is working with me and he will help me with them. And they're experiencing that vulnerability and openness from me.

Just learning that instead of my list of things that I'm going to do and make happen in their lives has been such a journey of growth. And I am still at the beginning and so thankful for a savior who ever teaches me genit. This is about experiencing the beauty of these people in your life and you together experiencing my love and my redeeming power and everything else is just nothing. Anything that blocks that is not what you desire, it's not what you want. Now, does that mean that it's a friction-free life or that I'm not having to say no, you have to do this?

This is important to do and that there's consequences and all of that. No, but it's coming at it from a heart of faith instead of a heart of fear. It's coming at it from a place of we are working on this together and there's no way he's going to let us down. There's no way that we will not be within his hands the whole way. So my professional stuff coming into conflict with reality has taught me about the Redeemer and his beautiful, his beautiful plan for parents that's not a perfectionism plan but a beautiful plan of redemption and joy in loving and experiencing with all the rockiness to it. These precious people that we have the opportunity to be close to. So I'm so thankful for the Redeemer, that's what it's taught me. I need him. We need him. This has been a fantastic day, John. Good things.

Good things. It was good for us to be here. Good for us to be here. I felt like you, Hank. I want to go tell my kids I love them. Sorry. Yeah, sorry. We all need Jesus, including dad.

Yeah, including dad, mostly dad, probably. Well, thank you, Dr. Janet Erickickson for joining us. Thank you to everyone who listened and stayed with us today or watched on YouTube. Thank you to you. We're grateful for your support. We couldn't do this without listeners. I guess we could, but we no one would hear it. So we're grateful that you're here. We want to thank our executive producer, Steve and Shannon Sornson, our sponsors David and Verla Sornson, and we hope that all of you will join us on our next episode of Follow In. Hey, we want to remind everybody that you can find us on social media, come find us on Facebook

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Absolutely free. Go to follow him.co. So all of that is available to you. Absolutely free. Go to follow him.co to find all of that. Yn yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw