Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Haggai, Zechariah Part 1 • Dr. Anthony Sweat • Dec. 5 - Dec. 11

Episode Date: November 30, 2022

How does temple building parallel building a corporate and individual spiritual life? Dr. Anthony Sweat examines the exiled Israelites’ return to Jerusalem and their attempt to rebuild their spiritual lives and learn to seek fulfillment outside of materialism, their call to be holy, and the essential nature of temple worship.Please rate and review the podcast!Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/old-testament/Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/follow-him-a-come-follow-me-podcast/id1545433056Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/15G9TTz8yLp0dQyEcBQ8BYThanks to the follow HIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producers, SponsorsDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith, and I'm John, by the way. We love to learn, we love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I'm your host.

I'm here with my Holy Co-host, John, by the way. John, our lessons today are in Haggai in Zechariah. We're talking about holiness and guess who I thought of when I think of the most holy person. I think of Jesus, but then I thought of you, John. Then I thought of you right after Jesus. You are a very holy guy. I thought you meant add holes in my socks. That's what I thought of you, John. Then I thought of you right after Jesus. You are a very holy guy. I thought you meant to add holes in my socks. That's what I thought meant by holy. You are very holy. Someone get John some new socks.

I'm sure there's a listener out there who would mind sending you some new socks here, John. Hey, like I said, John, we're in Haggai in Zechariah today. And we needed someone to come and help us understand these books because I'll be honest I can't tell you that I feel like an expert on these but I'm hoping to by the end who's with us today? We're thrilled to have Dr. Anthony sweat back with us again. We call him Tony because we know him and can I say I'm your friend Tony Does that oh man? Is that a fair statement? No, that's an unfair statement. You are a dear friend.

You are a dear friend. I'm so grateful to be with you. You great saints. Again, thanks for having me on. Absolutely. We love having you and I have students that are, hey, I'm getting ready to go to the temple. What should I do?

And I'm always like, oh, go get Dr. Anthony Sweatsbook, the holy invitation and the holy covenant. These books have really, blessed a lot of my students as they're preparing for the temple of my children too. My kids that have gone on missions have had them a read this. It's so helpful just to kind of have not only an expectation but a doctrinal expectation and backstory kind of of what am I doing here as I'm going to the temple. So I appreciate your guys' work. Everything you're doing and for this amazing work on this podcast,

you and the whole team. What great stuff you guys are doing. Thank you for blessing so many. I'm collectively, I'm just gonna interrupt here for all the listeners and just say thank you for the work you guys are doing here. Let me be a part of it. I was just lucky to be here.

That's all I said. A lot of our listeners will remember Tony, but let me give you a brief bio anyway. Anthony Sweat is an assistant professor of church history and doctrine at Brigham Young University. He's the author of numerous bestselling books and a regular speaker at various LDS events and conferences. He received a BFA in painting and drawing

from the University of Utah and Master's of education and PhD degrees in education from Utah State University. He and his wife Cindy are parents of seven children and reside in Utah. And I think our listeners will remember that. Haven't we shown some of Tony's art? Yet some doctrine and covenants art that he's done. Absolutely. We highly recommend anything from Tony's art, but it was the book that he printed last year called Repicturing the Restoration. That's we use that a couple of times last year. Tony, how do you want to approach these two books? I'm guessing most of our listeners have not read much of Haggai and Zechariah. We may have one or two out there who are like,

are you kidding me? These are my favorites. But I'm guessing most of us are not familiar. What do you think? Most of us aren't familiar with them. And one of the reasons I know that is because I simply looked up on the scripture citation index, how many times the book of Haggai has been cited in the history of general conference. It's the third to last.

It barely beat out song of Solomon. Like it's got a great track record. It's only been cited 14 times in both conference, journal of discourses, teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. I'm saying this up front and you're like, oh no, you're undermining the product. No, like I told before you're getting started. I said the tagline for this needs to be, let's make Haggai, the guy. This book of Haggai is profound, in particular because it is a temple centric book.

It's got wonderful adminsions and applications related to the temple, which when Hank invited me on here with some of my work I've done on the temple, that we wanted to make sure we make that connection. So I think that would be the first thing for all the listeners is make sure you're viewing it centered around their command to rebuild the temple that had been destroyed. But Haggai, it's a powerful, powerful text that in essence, the part that likes to get quoted in, the ones that do get quoted are often have to do with consider your ways, consider your ways. It's one of the rhetorical devices through this book.

It's only two chapters long, and you'll see that a few times where Haggai is going to tell the people to consider their ways. We'll get into it, but there's great metaphors for all of us. To an essence, reconsider our priorities, where the temple is at in those priorities, and how the other one that likes to get quoted is that people have a bag with holes. And we were talking about that famous, you're putting money in a bag with holes. In essence, you're not finding the fulfillment in life that you're wanting to because you're omitting the central thing that God wants you to do, which is centered on rebuilding his holy city and in the middle of it his holy

temple. That's kind of like big picture perspective why Haggai is a really important book that I hope as we get into it. People just love. And then, well, obviously, with Zechariah, who's a companion to Haggai, maybe that's one thing up front, is that Haggai and Zechariah should be read together. It's good that they're paired this week because they're prophesying at the same time. Haggai is gonna start his prophecies in 520 BC. Zechariah will start his in 518, like two years later, it says, Hank and John, I think you had Gerald Ludlow

who did Ezra on your podcast, but Ezra 5, chapter 1, brings up both Haggai and Zechariah together. This is Ezra 5, 1. Then the prophets Haggai, the prophet, and Zechariah, the son of Edo, prophesied unto the Jews that were in Judah and Jerusalem. So it's kind of good to think of Haggai and Zachariah as companion prophets. There are Russell M. Nelson and Dallin H. Oaks. There are Lehi and Jeremiah. They are prophesying together at the same time for the same purposes. Got it. So let's just do a little bit

of history here just to catch everybody up. We had our Babylonian captivity, Lehi left Jerusalem, We had our Babylonian captivity, Lehigh left Jerusalem, Babylon kind of ruled the area for 70, 70 years, 70 some odd years. Persia takes over. Cyrus the Great says, you can go back and rebuild your temple. And then this is where these players like Ezra, Nehemiah, Hagai and Zechariah come in. Am I on the right track there? Right track spot on and where they're coming in is they're gonna return Cyrus

Tells the House of Judah and Benjamin. You know, I have roughly 50,000 of These exiles who are in Babylon, which had been conquered by the Persians and Cyrus is gonna let them come back Under divine direction to rebuild the temple as it's been covered in your other books, but just to bring up to speed, they're gonna get back to the Holy Land these from the tribe of Judah and Benjamin, mainly. And they're gonna lay the foundation of the temple. They're gonna rebuild the altar

so they can start offering sacrifices. And then you get all the machinations with some of the Samaritans and the political issues. And to maybe cut to the chase, the Jews, as they go back, they're going to lose their zeal. They're going to lose their focus. They're going to lose their priorities. They're going to get frustrated, tired, put their energies elsewhere, and they're going

to stop rebuilding the temple for a number of years, for up to 15, 16 years, that they let go past once they've returned. And Haggai and Zachariah are going to call them to remember what God wants them to do is to build this temple and to quit being distracted and to get their priorities re-centered. Does this remind us of anything last year in a doctrine in covenants? Yes. And Hank was teasing me before Annie's like, now Tony, I don't want you to get on here as a church history and doctrine guy, and within two seconds be like, now this reminds

me of all of our country. That's exactly right. But there's just no way around it. As I was studying this, I couldn't help but see the parallels between this and the saints who go to Zion. I mean, here you have the saints in David's Zion, in Jerusalem, who don't build their temple, and we have the saints in the New Jerusalem

in Independence, Missouri, who they're there for a number of years. You know, Joseph Smith lays the cornerstones in 1831. And in 1833, the Lord is saying, have we ever gonna do anything with this? And when the saints get exiled, the first thing the Lord says in section 101 is, you should have built the temple like I told you.

There's some repeat history. And then without getting to modern day, today obviously we're building temples at a phenomenal rate. But the issue is, and we'll talk about this, where's our efforts, where's our energies, where's our priorities. Are they centered in the things that won't fill and won't last and aren't bringing true joy? Are they centered in the things in the temple? Do you see what Haggai matters so much right up front? Yeah. Sounds like you're

going to ask me to do something uncomfortable today, Tony, which is going to be reconsidering my priorities and where the temple fits in to those priorities. I would never do that, Hank. Hank, I want you to consider your ways, my brother. I'm both nervous and excited that I'm going to feel prompted to get myself back into the temple in better ways. That's what I hope we all do.

And the reason why is because we have a modern day haggai named Russell Em Nelson, who is following this prophetic pattern that you see from ancient and modern prophets to do so. So I actually hope that's our outcome. To our listeners, we could say, don't stop listening now. No way. Just because you might feel a little uncomfortable. It's coming. You know what's coming, but it's going to be good. Yeah.

A high guy is a very hopeful book. And maybe upfront to give the listeners a way to break it down. I like breaking down texts because it gives us easy ways to understand them. And the way I would break it down is, a high guy is going to have four prophecies that he's going to deliver over four months, four prophecies in four months. And I've kind of given a one word summary of what the four prophecies are. The first one I call accusation, the second

prophecy is expectation. The third one is invitation and the fourth one I would call celebration. So I'll say that again. Accusation, expectation, invitation, and celebration. You see prophets do this all the time where they say, hey, there's a problem. There's a problem. That's the accusation. And then they're going to raise our sights. They're going to try to get us to do higher and whole your ways to use that phrase that's being used in the church today. And that's the expectation. Let's raise up your expectation. And then there's the invitation, which is to act and to do and to implement something. And then there's the promise, the reward, which is the fourth prophecy of the celebration. And Haggai is gonna follow that pattern as well.

I love it, accusation, expectation, invitation celebration, I've written this down, four prophecies in four months. It's a nice way to kind of frame what we're looking at here in these two chapters. And the great thing is this book of Haggai is short. This is like the Old Testament version of Enus, where you're like, yes, yeah, when you run into this in Family Scripture study, he's like, woo-hoo. But it's power

packed as well. Can we jump into it? You guys read it? Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's start in Haggai chapter one. Obviously, you get the context there in verse one. In the second year of Darius, the King, that's the King of Persia, in the sixth month, on the first day of the month. So this is what we're getting these time frames. They'll use these months and the times. And you'll see from the first prophecy to the second, 24 days will pass, etc. He's mainly, by the way, going to focus in in verse one, it'd be important to notice, as is talked about in the book of Ezra, a lot of his efforts, both Haggai and Zachariah, are going to be Mark or highlight in verse one. He's going to talk to Zerubibul, who is the governor, or the political leader as they

return, and then Joshua, who will be of the lineage of the high priestly line. So you have the governor, leader, is Zerubibul, and then Joshua, who is our high priest. And a lot of what they're going to do is to be speaking and to motivate these two great leaders of the Jews to help bring about the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the temple specifically. Okay. So in verse two, thus speak at the Lord of hosts saying, this people say, the time has not come, the time that the Lord's house should be built. So here's where you're going to get the accusation. He's like, you've been there for 15, 16 years, and you're still saying it's not time. Then you're going to get the word of

the Lord to haggai and look at verse four. Here's the first accusation. It's a time for you, OE, to dwell in your sealed houses, or your panel, or your nice, we might say your posh houses. And this house, lie waste. The Lord saying, you've gone back and you're rebuilding the city, that's awesome. And you've built yourself some nice comfortable houses,

but my house is lying in ruins, and you're not focusing there. And then notice this is where he's going to point out some of their frustrations. In verse six, you have so much and you bring in little. You eat, but you have not enough. You drink, you're not filled with drink. You clothe you, but there is none. Warm. And he that earneth wages, earneth wages to put it in a bag with holes, which is a great phrase. It is. And John is euked. This is kind of like all of us. We make money and we're like, where does that just goes to pay all these bills. But I think maybe on a deeper level, the Lord,

here is trying to say, you're trying to find happiness and comfort in things that actually don't bring true happiness and comfort. It, to me, it's reminiscent of President Nelson's October talk where he talks about people who in essence are exhausted, trying to do all the things and follow the ways of the world, and they're not finding peace and rest that's promised through the covenant gospel and the Lord's divinity, and in particular, his promises through the temple. That's kind of how I interpret verse 6 with this, you're eating, you're clothing, you're drinking, you're making money, but you're just still not filled. It could be literal, but I

also think it's a great spiritual metaphor. Yeah, I think I'm seeing that exact same thing, Tony, is let's consider your ways and how they're not working. Are they? You're still missing something, aren't you? You can tell. It's almost like the Lord is saying, you're working really hard and you're not filled, are you? Yeah. President Nelson called it in his talk, the hollow substitutes that we sometimes seek after. And President Nelson said, we seek happiness where we cannot find it. That just seems to be what's happening. It's again, these people of the past, they live in different times and they have different contexts, but human nature doesn't seem to change across dispensations. And the things that Vex human nature in the past are the same ones that Vex us today.

And therefore, the solutions that they find or the solutions we'll find as well. They're going to find great solutions in listening to Haggai and following him. I can see the application already coming. I mean, it's so plain to see. So then, jump to verse 10 to 11. Haggai here is gonna make a reference. He's gonna call about that you want to do, but the earth is stayed from her fruit.

There's drought upon the land, upon the mountains, on the corn, the new wine, the oil. He in essence is going to make connections here to Deuteronomy 28 to those curses. If you're a covenant people but you're not living the covenant, these are some of the curses. There's those blessings and curses in the book of Deuteronomy. And there seems to be, as I read it and studied it, there seems to be a connection there that he's harkening back to what they would have seen in the five books of Moses with Deuteronomy in particular.

Pointing out something that they're going, oh, yeah, we are under this condemnation. Exactly. It might be a little bit like President Benson saying, hey, let me recall what the Lord said in section 84 of the doctrine and covenants that we need to remember the Book of Mormon. And here he's maybe saying, hey, remember when Moses said that if we don't live up as a covenant people of God will suffer these consequences and he seems to be pointing those out. The great thing is, unlike a lot of the Old Testament where their reaction is, let's stone the prophets and drive them out, the people here humbly respond. They're a great example to us

in verse 12. Then Zerubibul, the son of Shilthil and Joshua, the son of Joseph Dech, the high priest, you get the two great leaders there, with all the remnant of the people. Obey the voice of the Lord their God and the words of Haggai the Prophet as the Lord their God had sent him and the people did fear before the Lord. With this righteous response, the Lord says in verse 13, he says, Remember, I am with you, say at the Lord, and in verse 14, he stirs up the spirit of Zerubabal and also of Joshua the High Priest. And at the end of verse 14, and they came and did work in the house of the Lord of hosts, their God.

They get right after it within a matter of few weeks. Again, I can't help but make the church history connection here. Of when the Lord rebukes the saints in Kirtland. If you remember in section 88, the Lord tells them to build a house of God in Kirtland, Ohio, and six months later, they still haven't done anything, and the Lord rebukes them. Like, why haven't you built my house? There's this theme again, and their response here is a higher-and-smith response. If you remember, higher-and-right after that revelation comes, he goes and starts chopping down weeds. He's like,

I'm going to make it happen. And in a lot of ways, it's a rubble and Joshua, they do the exact same thing, as do all the remnant of the people. Are we still on the first prophecy accusation? Yeah, so this would still be that kind of accusation. So, yeah, I should probably say, Haggai I is all still this first prophecy. Okay. Chapter 2 is going to break down the other three prophecies. I really like that ironsmith's story. Yeah. There was that delay and it sounds like, look, Cyrus, the great, let you go back and to rebuild the temple and you've stalled.

I love how it says, first, what did you call it, your posh houses? I was going to call it your Hank Smith houses, but I didn't want to embarrass him on this in front of everybody. Some people get to live in Mapleton. Not all of us do. For the record, Tony lives a quarter mile away from me. Just so. There's some truth there though. If like back back to, we need to consider our ways. If I am spending all my time and caring for my own home and building it up and making it nice, which there's nothing wrong with that.

But if I'm omitting, caring about the Lord's home, spending my time there, I find wonderful things to decorate my home. Can I make sure I'm finding names to take to the Lord's home? If we're not doing those things, the Lord might be saying to you and I, maybe we should reconsider our ways a little bit. The application is coming so quickly, I don't want to pass it by. I think you're exactly right, Tony. If you're going to make the bridge to 2022, you'd say,

we need to reconsider our priorities. Where does the temple fit in? Are we in the same way in verse six doing a lot of work, but not really being filled? Is there maybe not a curse? Like you said in verse 11, but a feeling of something's missing in my life, then let's go to verse eight, go up to the mountain then. Yeah. Go up to the mountain and let's test the Lord's promises here. As you were talking about how the people responded, I thought of all the other prophets in the Old Testament, must be thinking, oh, lucky, because often it's prophets, prophesy, not get out of here. We don't want to hear this. Yeah, this response is so humble and good.

They get to work. Before we go to the second prophecy, No, we don't want to hear this. Yeah, this response is so humble and good. They get to work. Before we go to the second prophecy, make sure in verse five and seven of chapter one that kind of what we're talking about, where the Lord uses that rhetorical question or that rhetorical phrase anyway. Consider your ways.

He says in verse five, and again in verse seven, thus say at the Lord of hosts, consider your ways. And I don't think we should see that negatively. The concept of repentance is constant reevaluation and constant realignment. I actually like to use that word when I speak to,

in particular to younger people, that repentance is realignment. If this is where God wants us to be and this is us and we're trying to be in line with Him and sometimes we drift, it's natural. We all do that. I know I do often. And then our job is to consider our ways and consider our ways compared to the Lord's ways and reevaluate and realign. That's really what repentance is at its heart is a simple realignment. So I actually think that invitation to consider our ways is hopeful and it's a loving thing. It's not, is a simple realignment. So I actually think that invitation to consider our ways is hopeful, and it's a loving thing.

It's not a condemnation. I don't think it's a stretch to say that these wonderful Israelites, these Jews, they see it as a great thing for them to do. Not a condemnation, they respond so well to it. I mean, I think that our SNI brothers and sisters read this every year, the charted course of the church in education,

the great kind of constitution of seminaries and institutes. Right. J. Rubin Clark. Yeah, J. Rubin Clark. And I love that metaphor at the beginning where the mariners, when they've been at sea, the fog has come in, the clouds. They haven't been able to get their bearings. And they'll take their first opportunity when the sky is clear to see, okay, where are the stars? Where are we? Who are we? What's our course? And that talk he began it like that, which was a great way to say, okay, no, wait, who are we? Where are we going? What are we supposed to do? And get what's the phrase you use, Tony, realign? Let's realign what we're doing. Reset our course. Remember what's

most important, what's at the less important. And I like that metaphor of somebody at sea. Of a mariner at sea. Yeah, the looks at the stars and says, okay, let's get this back on track. Yeah, let's re-align, let's re-evaluate, let's re-prioritize, let's repent. And this is something we all need to do

without being overly personal. I mean, my wife and I just recently, in every phase of life you're in, we've sat down and just said, hey, we're running a little too and fro in certain places and we're a little overburdened. What really are our goals that we're seeking? What's our motives? Let's examine our hearts. Let's take things to the Lord. Let's find where we have maybe inadvertently or unconsciously and maybe sometimes consciously drifted. And let's re-center, reprioritize, realign. And we all need to be doing this. There's great promise and hope in doing so.

And we need to react the way these people did to when a prophet tells us to do that. Don't go on a guilt trip and just say, yeah, I got to look at this and I'm going to realign and fix this. I like what you said there, both of you. We can keep this positive. We like to keep follow him as a shame free zone. We don't feel ashamed. We can look forward. The Atonement is a gift. It is not a guilt trip. As I have read chapter one, I've thought to myself, you're right, I am not in the temple enough. I'm truly not in the temple enough. I need to be in there more often. Here I am considering my ways and saying, yep, it's time for me to act like Zerubobul and get to the mountain. The new emphasis with the new children and youth program is that one of the tokens of

belonging they give to every one of the youth is a temple-recommend holder. And I was really touched by something that President Steve Lund said about that, because somebody said, the way it's so like the holder is like a new scouting award or something. And he said, oh no. The recommend holder isn't the award. A recommend in the holder. That's what we're going for. And to imagine how unique any young person is, who has a recommend in the holder. That's what we're going for. And to imagine how unique any young person is

who has a recommend, and then this chapters and uses it, this chapters are mining it, have a recommend, but then go use it. Imagine young people going more often to the temple and the power and strength they'll get from that moving forward. So yeah, get the recommend holder, get the recommend in the holder, and then get you and the recommend and the recommend in the holder to the temple. Tony, you said something about them losing their zeal. They get back, they built a little bit, they built the altar, they put back the foundation, but then they lost their zeal a little bit. I just wondered it in my head. If I lost my zeal after we had this pandemic where the temples were closed and such a longing to be in the temple.

Oh, I wanted to be back in the temple, I wanted to be back in the temple, then the temples reopened and we flooded the temple. And then I wonder if we lost a little bit of that zeal. Yeah, and that's a great question for each of us to ask personally. And I love that verse where it says, who can say too much of the Lord? Can we ever glory enough in his name? It makes me wonder the same with the temple. Yeah, that's Ammon in the Bukhavalmah. Yeah, and it makes me think of the same with the temple.

Who can say enough of the Lord's house? Who can glory too much? Or who can go too much? I'm not sure it's possible to say, yeah, I worship the Lord too much in his temple. I'm not sure that's been something that's ever led very many people into forbidden or bad paths. One of the things that gave me a lot of peace during the pandemic was to have general conferences that were more of a not open to the public type of thing, but to have new temples announced during the pandemic,

let us know that a profit with the gift of seership was saying, oh, we're gonna get through this. In fact, we're going to build temples, we're going to need more. And I don't know about you guys, but I just thought, look at that, we're in a pandemic. We're kind of wondering what's gonna happen, and here we are announcing new temples.

This is going to be temporary, and we're going to move forward, and we're going to keep doing the work of the Lord in the temples. Very good. I wrote after the side of my chapter one, watch out for hollow substitutes. I think that's another application we cannot miss. If we're not careful, we can fill our lives with hollow substitutes for the Lord's house. Yeah, we can.

And trying to find happiness where it just isn't found. It doesn't satisfy. We're constantly left unsatisfied. There's never enough things, there's never enough money, there's never enough pleasure, there's never enough entertainment, there's never enough fun. It's an insatiable part of our appetite that once we figure that out,

that's when we start to say, oh, I understand why Jesus says, I'm gonna give you a type of peace, you can't get anywhere else. John, I'm sure you thought of, is it Jacob? Why do you labor for that which cannot satisfy? Second, he find nine. Yeah, he was giving his own, consider your ways type. How's this working for you? You're

not getting there. Yeah. And have you noticed that you're not getting there? And I think all of us sometimes can sit down and say, okay, when have I felt the most at peace? When have I felt the most like I was on a good path and consider our ways that way. How do I get back to that? But when Alma, in Alma 5, that tremendous chapter, when he says, there was a time when you were so thrilled about the gospel, it made you want to sing. Remember when you felt to sing the song of redeeming love? Can you feel so now?

It's such a great chapter because he's talking to members of the church, but they've lost their zeal as you put it, Hank. And you feel that way now? And if not, why not? Alaphob is just an awesome kind of a conference talk. I think that asks that same question. Can I read just a paragraph from the manual that adds even another interesting insight to this. It says,

but it wasn't just the Holy Temple that needed rebuilding. In many ways, God's people were spiritually in ruins, and rebuilding a holy people takes more than hewing stones and aligning them to build a temple wall. Today, temples bear the inscription, holiness to the Lord, and those words apply not just to a building, but to a way of life. That's funny. I marked that exact same thing out of the inscription, holiness to the Lord, and those words apply not just to a building, but to a way of life. That's funny. I marked that exact same thing out of the manual, Hank. I thought that was a great part of the introduction to it. I want to say, I think it was Sister Elaine Dalton, maybe, said that more that we go the temple, the more the temple is in us. You're going to build this physical temple, but then you're

going to build your own spirit, the temple becomes part of you and part of your life. This might be a good time to move on to the second one of expectation, because the second prophecy that Haggai is going to touch on moving into Haggai 2, we build up all these hopes like this. We re-get our zeal, we re-prioritize, we refocus, and then we kind of get let down a little or we stumble or we trip. You know, it's kind of like where we say, I'm going to get back in shape physically. And then six weeks later, we're like, I'm not quite doing so hot. This isn't working as fast as I'd hoped.

And in a way, that's kind of what happens in Haggai II with the second prophecy. So the second prophecy, which I want to call expectation, is Haggai II, and it's going to go from verse 1 through verse 9 or 10. Basically what's happening here is the people have gotten to work within a month. The Lord is helping them and encouraging them, but their work isn't quite there yet. So I mean, look at verse three. Haggai says, who is left among you that saw this house in her first glory? And how do you see it now? Is it not in your eyes in comparison of it

as nothing translation? Good effort, good start, but this is nothing compared to what Solomon's temple looked like. We've got to do this better. And the people are sad too, and some of the commentaries that I read on this, and some of the scholars of Haggai say, they were likely exiled Jews who had returned, who remembered Solomon's first temple. And now they're coming back 70 years later and they're going, oh man, oh this isn't cutting it. Like this pales in comparison. Now he's gonna try to raise their sights.

Like no, we need to make this as grand or grander, better than Solomon's temple even was. And if you look at verse four, yet now be strong, those are rubble, say at the Lord, and be strong, O Joshua, the high priest, and look at the end of verse 4, for I am with you, say at the Lord of hosts. Verse 5, according to the word that I covenanted with you when you came out of Egypt. So my spirit remained with you, fear ye not. What does that have that goes over right there? Be strong, don't fear, I am with you. And his name's Joshua too.

And his name's Joshua. You just can't help but make a connection here to Joshua one where the Lord is helping Joshua, telling him to be strong, to have courage that I'm with you. Just like how the Lord is with those who came out of Egypt into the Promised Land, you're now coming out of exile back into the Promised Land.

And the Lord's gonna be with you to help you. Isn't that great connection there? The playoff if it's name there. Yes, it's wonderful. And Joshua, the original Joshua, he faced quite a daunting prospect as well. Yep. And then in verse six, the Lord gives us great phrase,

yet once it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens and the earth, and the sea and the dry land, I'll shake all the nations, and the desire of all the nations shall come, and I'll fill this house with glory, say at the Lord of hosts. The silver is mine, the gold is mine, say at the Lord of hosts, the silver is mine, the gold is mine, say at the Lord of hosts,

the glory of this ladder house shall be greater than of the former. Say at the Lord of hosts, and in this place will I give peace, say at the Lord of hosts. So there's the end of the second, kind of raising the sights, raising the expectations, and some just great one-liners there's the end of the second kind of raising the sites, raising the expectations. And some just great one-liners there in the second prophecy, this idea of all shake the heavens or the earth. That's one of the phrases that does get cited by early church leaders of how the Lord will move heaven and earth, or cause things to happen to fulfill his promises. And you get verses like doctrine covenant's 216 and doctrine covenant's 35, 24, those went me some good cross references where the Lord says things like, I will cause the heavens to shake for your good.

That's a playoff haggie's words there. And then you get in verse 8 where the Lord is reminding them and us. Everything is his. He is the giver. Everything that we have is his. So not only can he give us everything that he has to make it possible, but also everything that we have were stewards and we should give to him. So there might be a dual reminder here in verse 8 that the silver and the gold is mine, like the Lord saying, Hey, if you want to make this better, maybe there might be some applications to consecration here. I give of the great things that I've given you to the furthering of my cause, dedicate those means, those talents, those time to furthering the work and actual treasure, right. And actual treasures that you have.

It doesn't have it in the footnotes, but Adcrossier, if it's that over to section 104, where the Lord in that section of the doctrine, Covenants repeatedly reminds the saints, all things are mine. They are mine. They are mine. They are mine. I think he says it four times in that section. There's just some good application there to obviously principles of consecration, principles of tithes and offerings so that the Lord can fill his house with glory and that he can create places of peace for us through the Holy Temple. All right, that promise of verse 9 is fantastic. The latter house will be greater than the former and I can give you what you're missing. I can give peace, which you go back to verse 6 is what they were missing chapter 1 verse 6. You eat and you have

known enough, you drink, you're not filled. I can give you what will fill you. The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former and we go back to verse 3. Well, some of you saw the first one, what are you seeing it now? So it's like, listen, if you'll just do what you're supposed to do, I'll make it even better than the average thing you're envisioning in verse three or you're building in verse three, I'll make it better.

Atoni, it might be helpful to tell our listeners, okay, so the first temple we call Solomon's Temple. Yeah. That temple gets destroyed. Cyrus sends them back. They rebuilding Solomon's Temple. What was the name of the temple when Jesus came? So it'll end up being known as Herod's Temple, but Herod in essence is going to improve,

expand the Temple Mount in large and build up this temple that is a river bowl in Joshua will oversee being rebuilt. This is the beginning of the second temple period, right? Right. I think that might be helpful. The last time I was in Jerusalem, I saw in one of the shops there, you can buy little models of the second temple. And a funny sign on it said, by the second temple model now, before the third temple is built and prices go up. We're anticipating someday a third temple, I suppose. This temple is actually destroyed in 70 AD, so it'll be in 500 years from this time.

Yeah, that Jesus prophesies there won't be one stone upon another. That's way in the future, but that's the second temple But that would be good just kind of like you said. Solomon builds the first destroyed This is the one that will be rebuilt by Zerbable and Joshua and then Herod will enlarge and expand But it's a second temple period as Hank said is the beginning of the second temple period But we know it as Herod's temple is what they'll often call it in Jesus' time. Man, that promise in verse nine can be applied to your future can be greater than your past.

Yeah. And I can give you peace. If you'll realign yourself, as we've been talking, realign yourself with me, I can give you a better future than you've had in the past. And maybe the past was great, but I can give you something better. I love that promise of I can give you a better future than you've had in the past. And maybe the past was great. But I can give you something better. I love that promise of I can give you something better. Trust me. I do too. That line in this place will I give peace. I'm sure you and many of our listeners will agree. I mean, where's the most peaceful place you've ever been in your life? I know what I would

say and I know what you guys would say. And that's a place where I get more clarity, more direction. It's like the best place to consider your ways that I can think of is to be there and to feel so much of the world just outside and away. So I love that phrase. In this place, will I give peace? And I have found that promise answered again and again for me. Again, the manual has a wonderful connection with what you guys are bringing up in verse nine with the glory of this ladder house will be greater than the former.

The manual has a good connection with the Provo City Center temple. Watch that little video clip they have on there. Look at that. Many of your listeners are familiar with the story of that building, some aren't, but it was a tabernacle that was, it wasn't a temple originally. It was a tabernacle, an old pioneer tabernacle that accidentally, through no malicious intent on anyone's part, accidentally burnt down. And President Amonson announced that they were going to rebuild it and

not just rebuild it as a tabernacle, but a temple. And there's just wonderful metaphor. And it is the glory of that house now is greater than the former. And what a great metaphor for, I think it was Linda Burton, who gave a great talk where she said, personally, we go through similar things where we suffer loss often through no fall of our own.

And through the Lord's divine promises, he can redeem, he can rectify, he can restore, he can reclaim, he can recompense in ways that we can't even fathom with some of the injustices or unfairness or losses that we experience in mortality. The Lord is a restoreer. That's one of his central titles The Lord is a restoreer. That's one of his central titles. He's a restoreer. He's a restoreer of lost blessings, of lost hope through this fallen world.

And he can make the future greater than the past. Hank, don't you give a talk about that. I've heard you give a talk about it. Yep, I did a talk on CD. Do you remember CDs, John? I remember CDs. Certificate of a deposit. No, that talk about it. Yep, I did a talk on CD. Do you remember CDs, John? I remember CDs. Certificate of a deposit. No, that's not it. Yeah, it was, yeah, these old CDs that used to put in your car and you could trap your kids in the car and make them listen to your talks,

which I have done with both of you, by the way. I've trapped my kids in the car and had them listen to your talk. But I did one, I called it trial, blessing, or both. And I used that story of the Provo tabernacle. And this is one of those points where you can use Isaiah literally. Remember Isaiah said, the Lord can give you beauty for ashes. I was just gonna say that literally, beauty for ashes.

With that tempo. Beauty for ashes. And make it better than it was before. I was yesterday teaching Book of Mormon and we were talking about the loss of the stolen 116 page menus, you're gonna get it right. And the Lord said,

it's okay, I've got this second record and it will throw greater views and it's something that you thought was a loss. It came back, it made it even better in the end. Kind of one of the things the Lord does, like you said. He's such a restore, can make things better than they were. That's one of my titles. I mean, obviously, there's so many names of Jesus,

but one of my favorite titles is a restore. Jesus is a restore. What should we go on to the third prophecy? Yes, let's do it. So right around verse 10, it starts the third one in the fourth and 20th day of the ninth month. In the second, so you can see the third one in the fourth and twentieth day of the ninth month. In the second, so you can see, they started in the sixth month. Now it's the ninth month, we're three months later.

Came the word of the Lord to Haggai the prophet. So this is the third one is verses 10 to 19. If I could summarize this one, this is going to be the real invitation, kind of what we were just saying. It's not just about rebuilding a temple, but it's about rebuilding our lives. And this is going to be a call for greater holiness. And in this, Haggai is going to appeal to the priests who obviously know the book of Leviticus, and he's going to give them some prompts in verse 12.

If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt, death, touch bread or potted or wine or oil or any meat shall it be holy?" And the priest answered and said, no, they're going to some Levitical laws here of what makes things clean and unclean. So they're like, just like how if you have this meat that if it touches something unclean, now the meat's unclean. And then he's going to say in 13, if one that is unclean by a dead body, touch any part of these, shall it be unclean?" And the priest answered and said, well, it shall be unclean. And now he's going to make the connection to them.

Then answered Haggai in verse 14 and said, so is this people. And so is this nation before me, say at the Lord. And so is every work of their hands. And that which they offer there is unclean. And now I pray you consider from this day an upward, from before a stone is laid upon a stone in the temple of the Lord. And then he's going to go back to some of their sufferings they had in verse 17. And then 18 tells him to consider again from this day upward, even from the day that the foundation

of Lord's temple was laid considerate. Is the seed yet in the barn? Yay! As yet the vine and the fig tree and the pomegranate and the olive tree have not brought forth fruit from this day, well, I bless you. Now, if we're missing there, in essence, what he just said is just like how in the book of Leviticus, if something is clean touches something that's unclean, that is now unclean, if your unclean is you're building this temple, you're going to make the temple unclean. You need to cleanse your heart, purify your life, live as holy people as you're working on this temple and coming to this temple. And remember that what brought the problems in the past was that you weren't being holy.

So if you want the blessings of the Lord, not only to make his house holy, but to make your life holy, and then you'll find the Lord pouring out his blessings, that seems to be the crux of the third prophecy of Haggai, which is why I call it invitation. And Tony, I'm going to hark him back to church history for you, wasn't it? If I remember correctly last year, it was the building of the temple that created a holiness. It was almost as if the Lord said, I want you to take the three years to build this Kirtland temple. And by the time the three years was over, the building was ready, if the Lord said, I want you to take the three years to build the Skirtland Temple. By the time the three years was over, the building was ready, but the people were also

ready through the building. And then the Lord pours out that Pentecostal endowment on them, but it almost was the process of building it. And at the same time, in the doctrine of covenants in section 88, the Lord repeatedly tells, he gives in the word sanctify,ants in section 88, the Lord repeatedly tells, he gives him the word sanctify, sanctify, sanctify yourselves, become more pure and holy. And you see a similar thing here, rebuild the temple. Don't just build the building, build it in your lives, be holy because that's where the blessings will really come.

Yeah. So they had gotten started on the building and now the Lord's like, let's work on you. Yeah, exactly. Line upon line. I like that. That was the third one. That's the invitation. So that kind of leads to this fourth one, which is the shortest prophecy, verse 20 to 23, which is the celebration. Or in other words, it's coming at the same time as the third one, but it's going to be a celebration of what is going to happen. And it's a promise that the Lord will really reestablish a Davidic line and that a king will come. And Zerubable is going to be a type, or he's going to be a shadow of the future king of Israel.

You're seeing this, like, let me accuse where you're wrong, let me raise your sights, let me give you an invitation to holiness, and I want you to prepare yourself to receive the Lord. We need to prepare a people to receive Jesus. And in these verses, you see in verse 20, the word of the Lord comes Haggai, 20, when he wants to speak to his Arubabal, the governor. Again, I'll shake the heavens in the earth 22. I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms. I'll destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen. And he gives these promise that the Lord eventually is going to conquer. He's going to come and set up his kingdom. And then in verse 23, there's some powerful application there. In that day, say, at the Lord of hosts, will I take the old,

zeal, abuel, my servant, the son of shalt, he'll say at the Lord, and will make the as a signet. And a signet, if you look at that footnote that's in your references, I'll make you as one having authority for I have chosen the say say, at the Lord of hosts. And there's two ways to look at this. You could look at Zerubabul as a type and a shadow of the future king and kingdom through Jesus, which I think is how a lot of scholars might interpret it or. But as Latter-day Saints, I look at this as a type for us also, where the Lord is saying,

I need to prepare a people who are ready to receive the Lord. You are a chosen and a royal priesthood as going back all the way to Moses. You're to be a holy nation, a kingdom of priests and priestesses. Moses calls it a kingdom of priests. Joseph Smith, when they're building the temple, says that the Lord intends to make you a kingdom of priests, people who have authority, who have been washed and anointed and consecrated, and set apart from the ways of the world, who have entered into a holy order of the

Son of God, an order of people or a class of people who have given their lives to God to dedicate themselves and to His will, and that these are the people the Lord needs to be prepared to receive Him. You're just seeing that direct application here of them, get ready to receive him. You're just seeing that direct application here. Of them get ready to receive Jesus. And now we have prophets today telling us sanctify yourselves, center it on the temple, become a covenant people, cleave to your covenants, be ready to receive the Lord. There's a wonderful pattern being re-emerged in our day. What do we want to do right here? Let's do a little five minute, get yourself to the temple because we're hitting about an hour. So this will be a perfect first episode

kind of cut. So can I give one more thought before we do that, Hank? Okay, let's do it. Just one last thought. Yeah, no problem with that. No rush, honestly. No rush, I just was wondering where we were. Yeah. No, I just, I just think would be remiss if we didn't see what Haggai has promised the people that they'll have peace, that they'll have rest, that they'll have power.

And it's all centered on the table. They'll become holy. They'll become holy. And you guys have heard me say this before, but I love Abraham chapter 1, verse 2, when Abraham says that he desired the blessings of the fathers. And the blessings of the fathers has been interpreted by church officers and authorities. These are the covenant blessings of exaltation that are only found in the temple. And Abraham says, I became a rightful heir, a high priest, somebody chosen, part of a royal covenant people. And then I love what Abraham says. Abraham says that he wanted great err happiness, greater peace, great err rest, great err knowledge, and greater strength. Abraham won two is so awesome with the temple because I don't doubt that

we can find some measure of peace, some measure of happiness, or some measure of rest, but it ultimately won't satisfy. The invitation here is, do you want greater peace? Do you want greater rest? Do you want greater power? Greater power to detect the deceptions of the adversary, overcome the trials and tribulations of mortality, greater knowledge, greater ability to hear the voice of God, greater connection with the ministering of angels, greater ability to understand the Lord's ways. That's what the temple is offering us. That's what endowment is. Endowment, as I've said before, is not a ceremony. Endowment is a power.

The ceremony or the presentation of the endowment that we participate in is an authorized ritual to open up and facilitate the power. The power of godliness is found in these ordinances, but we have to live our lives in such a way by adhering to these covenants and concepts in the temple that line upon line and bit by bit, they bring that into our life. This greater peace, this greater happiness, this greater peace, this greater happiness, this greater knowledge, this greater rest, this greater connection to God. And we would be remiss if we didn't re-back to realign, reprioritize ourselves on those promises that are made through the Holy Temple and the Endowment. I think that's worth repeating there, Tony, that you said there's a difference between the endowment, the power that we get and the presentation of the endowment.

This comes from your amazing BYU devotional. I hope everyone, after listening to this episode of Follow Him, we'll go to, you can go to YouTube or you can go to speeches.biu.edu. Yeah, and you can look up Tony's devotional called We Need an Endowment. He says very similar things here that The endowment isn't something you take out the first time you go to the temple

It's a power that comes into your life gradually as you take part Yeah, and that's a fundamental shift because back to like Expectations and invitations that we're talking about Hag Haggai here, somebody might have the expectation that, oh, I go to the temple and I'm in doubt, and they might walk out three hours later, and they might not feel substantially different after going through the ceremony for the first time. But the invitation is to repeatedly return to the temple, to repeatedly understand the covenants and the concepts that are symbolically presented and packaged, almost like a metaphor for us,

a giant parable for us to decode. And then for us to implement those covenants and concepts in our life, that is when the power of endowment, the spiritual power, bit by bit, builds within us. And we start to gain the power to overcome this world. You mentioned my devotional, we need an endowment. I got that line from when Joseph Smith was talking to the quorum of the 12, Smith was talking to the quorum of the Twelve and he said, you need an endowment in order that you may be prepared and able to overcome all things. And that is the same invitation to you and I that the power of endowment enables us through

the grace of Jesus Christ through our covenant connection to him to overcome this world. And that's why the power of endowment is different than the presentation. We have to receive endowment in the same way that we receive the Holy Ghost. Hands are laid on your head after you're baptized and you're given a divine injunction to go receive the Holy Ghost. It's a process by the way we live. In the same way, we participate in the ceremony of the endowment, and that opens the pathway for us to receive the fullness of the Holy Ghost. That's a Joseph calls it, or praise for in section 109,

when he dedicates the Curtlyn Temple. As we live and implement those, we will get greater power to conquer the challenges we're facing. Tony, this might seem a little bit odd, but I'm actually going to quote you, Andrew devotional while you're sitting right here. You said, power and capacity don't come in a single class. We wish they would, but they simply can't. We must consistently put in the work. Becoming endowed with divine power is a little bit like going through a university program or degree, just because we've been accepted

doesn't make us educated. The education comes slowly, even painfully, especially when everything is due at the same time around finals, right? Rarely does learning come dramatically or all at once. Most of it comes almost imperceptibly over time. This sentence here is really the crutch of what we're saying about going back to the temple over and over. The tuition of education, especially a temple education, is paid by persistence.

That's the line you probably wrote, Hank. Yeah, that was the one I helped you with. That's right. Hank was good enough to review and help me with that script. So if that's a good line, you probably wrote it, my friend. Yeah. But is that what we're getting at there is the returning is the endowment comes from returning. The power comes from returning over and over. Yeah. Returning and living, implementing those, as you and I live our covenants, power will come into our life. So it's not necessarily what happens in the temple It's also what happens outside the temple in my life

Most definitely you're both reminding me of that idea of receiving a Holy Ghost of being a process Not as much an event but an ongoing the more I ponder this verse the more it's climbing the charts in my top 10 The more I ponder this verse, the more it's climbing the charts in my top 10 Section 50 verse 24 that which is of God is light and he that receive a light and Continuous in God. I love those three words. Just continue in God Receive a more light and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day. It's a process of continuing in the endowment that continues. Thank you for making that distinction.

The presentation of the endowment is not the endowment I wrote down. The endowment is the receiving power over time in that process. Great stuff. And President Nelson, again, man, we are blessed with a profit of profits. In his talk, the temple is our spiritual foundation. He said this back to reconsidering our ways and laying foundations. It is now time that we each implement extra ordinary measures. Perhaps measures we have never taken before to strengthen our personal spiritual foundation, the temple lies

at the center of strengthening our faith and our spiritual fortitude. And then this is him teaching this concept, as we keep our covenants, he endows us with his healing, strengthening power, and oh, how we will need that power in the days ahead. Wow. [♪ Music playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the background, playing in the you