Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Isaiah 13-35 Part 1 • Dr. Kerry Muhlestein • Sept 12-18

Episode Date: September 7, 2022

Do Isaiah's warnings about Babylon apply to us today? Dr. Kerry Muhlestein explores the applicable history of Israel, Judah, and Isaiah's prophecies to the Israelites. Dr. Muhlestein examines how merciful God is with all of his children.Please rate and review the podcast!Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/old-testament/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the follow HIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producers, SponsorsDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-h

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith, and I'm John, by the way, we love to learn, we love to laugh, we want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. Hello my friends, welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith and I am your host And I am here with a co-host. I will describe as a strength to the poor a strength to the needy and his distress and a refuge from the storm

John when I read Isaiah 25 verse four I thought of you now you're gonna say oh that's not me But John think of how many people who have been driving with their kids, you know, they got their kids stuck in the car in the freeway and they throw in a John by the way, talk. And it becomes a strength to the poor, a strength to the needy and a refuge from the storm. So John, take it as a compliment. I don't know if Isaiah specifically was talking about you, but I'm going to Interpret that scripture. I thought you were going to say they throw in a John by the way tape because that's how far back we're going now

Yes, the eight trek. Yeah, the eight trek. I can't possibly live up to these adjectives But for those who have cassette players in their cars. Yep. I do my own talks on CD John and my kids like yours. And my kids like yours more than mine. We listen to yours. So we need a third party to say good things to our kids.

Yeah, that's how it works. We are back in Isaiah this week. We had a great first week in Isaiah and we've got a couple more to go. And I think Isaiah is opening up to us and our listeners, John. We have someone gifted with this book. Tell everybody who's joining us. Yeah, I think that our listeners will be excited

that we have Dr. Kerry Mielstein back again. I've had half a dozen people come into me about previous podcasts that we did with Kerry. So we're really excited to have him back. He received his bachelor's from BYU in psychology with Hebrew minor. As an undergraduate, he spent time at the BYU Druslim Center for Near Eastern Studies in the intensive Hebrew program, received an MA in Ancient Near Eastern Studies from BYU and a PhD from UCLA in Egyptology, where in his final year he was named the UCLA Affiliates Graduate Student of the Year.

Wow. He's the director of the BYU Egypt excavation project, and in association with this works on understanding the pyramid, excavated there as well as their Greco-Roman culture represented at the site and the advent of Christianity in Egypt. And for today, I wanted to mention, his book, Learning to Love Isaiah, a Guide and Commentary, has been helpful to so many. I just love the title, Learning to Love Isaiah, and that's why we're here today. And Kerry, we're really happy to have you back.

Thanks for coming again. Well, thanks for having me back. I'm so grateful and I do have to say this is a very true story that when we really want our kids to get a gospel principle, I know they won't listen to me, but the two people they will listen to, the two people are fans of our Hank and John. That's the ones that we use. We can get them to listen to. And I'll tell you another story. My daughter, as a freshman, took Hank's book of Mormon class and one day someone was asking her, well, why don't you take your dad's religion class?

And she said, well, unlike my dad, Hank Smith actually is funny. Okay, this is funny. So you are on the eight track in our car. Hey, I'll take it. I'll take it. My own daughter starts at BYU this fall and I'm interested to see the religion classes she chooses to take.

And I doubt it'll be mine. You're never a prophet in your own family. Yep. Yep. Hey, Carrie, we want to give all the time to Isaiah today. We're in our second section. I think there's five lessons in the Come Fall Me manual about Isaiah, and this is our second one.

Starts around Isaiah 13, but I'm sure you're going to want to do a little bit of background. Help our listeners approach the book of Isaiah in a way that now they can go in and it doesn't read like, I don't understand a word that he's saying, he might as well be writing in a different language. What do we need to know in order to go in and at least glean some things out of these chapters? That's a great question and I love helping people understand Isaiah, it just makes me happy. And I know you got some great guidance from Dr. Combs last week, he's in so brilliant at this kind of thing.

And so I don't want to repeat the same things, but I will say that one of the main keys and he did touch on this and we'll end up touching on it today, is to look for how Isaiah is fulfilled in more than one way. So often we see the chapter heading that says, like the millennial, Christ, or in reading of time, Christ. And that's true, but that doesn't mean that's the only interpretation. That's not what the chapter heading that says like the millennial, Christ or in the radiance of time, Christ. And that's true, but that doesn't mean that's the only interpretation.

That's not what the chapter heading is. They weren't giving us the comprehensive commentary and those chapter headings, right? And almost everything, there is an original context. And when we understand the original context and the way it's fulfilled in Isaiah's day, we can better understand how it's fulfilled in Christ day or how it's fulfilled in our day.

So that would be one of the things I would suggest. I know you've already talked about that a bit. filled in Isaiah's day, we can better understand how it's a filled in Christ day or how it's fulfilled in our day. So that would be one of the things I would suggest. I know you've already talked about that a bit. Maybe I'll have just two other suggestions, although we'll do three. I know there are lots more we could give. The first one is just quick, and that's just to slow down. When we're going to read Isaiah, it's not like the narrative chapters that we were reading when we were doing the stories of the Exodus or Abraham going

down into Egypt or something like that. This is deep stuff. Isaiah, I think probably the most gifted writer in the history of the world. If you disagree, maybe you'll probably agree, at least in the top 10. He packed a lot of material into his words and you just have to take some time to do it right. And if you can't get through the whole reading, but I'd say it's better to do five chapters well than 10 chapters poorly.

So slow down and take some time and look for symbols. That's Isaiah's a master at painting pictures with his word. So he has images he wants us to feel. And I think often that's what we should do is ask what is Isaiah and Teneen for me to feel here. But he usually conveys those images by symbols. And so slow down, when you find a symbol, when you find him talking about, say, planting.

And he says, I plant this kind of seed this way and this kind of this way, learn about the seeds. You can just get online. I mean, you could use a commentary, but you could also just get online. And so when you learn the literal symbol, then you're better prepared to ask yourself, well, how would they have perceived this in Isaiah's day? How might that apply on my day? But too often we skip that first part about the literal symbol. So I think that's an important

strategy. I'll give you one last one, and then we can find out what strategies have worked for you guys. But I would say another real key is to make sure you understand and look for the Abrahamic covenant. Isaiah writes about the Abrahamic covenant probably more than anything else. And in fact, often when he's talking about Christ, he's talking about how Christ fulfills the covenant. Christ makes it possible for us to be redeemed, which is a promise in the covenant. So if you know the promises of the covenant, like that you'll have a land, or that you'll

be protected, or that you'll be blessed, or that you'll have a land or that you'll be protected or that you'll be blessed or that you'll have a righteous ruler. Then you can see when he says that these are being fulfilled or when he says the opposite of them are happening. So if he says that all of your people have been killed in war, you know, one of the things he's saying is what you've broken the covenant. So you're not getting the blessings of the covenant. But if he says, no, now you have so many children that there's not room in your tent. So you need to make your tent bigger. You need to then make your chords longer and strengthen

your stakes. What he's saying is, well, yeah, you've got this posterity that was a promise of the covenant. So really what he's saying is you're getting all the blessings of Abraham a covenant. And when you key into that covenant, you'll find it is everywhere in Isaiah. And you understand Isaiah much better when you recognize he's talking about the covenant. Fantastic. That is great. I feel like President Nelson, I too remember a talk that Elder Bednar gave where he said, going on a mission isn't something you do, it's something you are because you are the

children of Abraham. Just, I think there's a greater, to quote Robert Millett, a greater covenant consciousness the past doesn't or so years. And I love that we're talking more about the Abrahamic covenant. So I'm really glad you mentioned that. But let me go back to what's worked for us. I just wanna agree with you and looking for symbols.

I think it was Victor Ludlow who said, Jesus taught in simple parables, Isaiah taught in complex symbols, and I feel like the process of trying to understand those as part of the joy of studying Isaiah because you learned so much in trying to what does this mean and discovering what those symbols are. So totally amen to what you just said there. Yeah, I think for me understanding the political history, really all of a sudden opened up Isaiah for me. Just the things we've been going through in previous episodes about coming into the promised land and then deciding we wanted a king. And now we had our three kings and things fell apart and here comes Isaiah right before, correct me if I'm wrong here Kerry, but just a couple of decades before the fall of the northern kingdom, he's coming in and he's

saying, you're gonna fall. And when you understand that, you can see it in his writings. I get what he's talking about. And then him speaking then, turning around and speaking to the southern kingdom, saying, you're not far behind. He's speaking to both of these kingdoms. Had I not known that history and what had happened, I would have been lost, and then to see where the Book of Mormon fits exactly, exactly just before the fall of that Southern Kingdom, it's a testimony builder for the Book of Mormon. But I can see why Nephi loves Isaiah so much. He is the prophet saying, there's going to be a gathering, there's going to be a gathering, and if you're

Nephi's family, you've got to rely on that promise that you're not just lost and forgotten. One day there's going to be a gathering. They are set on that promise. All of a sudden, I clicked. This is why Nephi loves Isaiah so much. Yeah, because they need that promise to come true for them because they have been scattered. I have to say amen to what you're saying. If that's the other great key is to know the history and the politics. And as you said, Isaiah prophesized warning that the Northern Kingdom will be scattered and destroyed. And while he's still during his ministry, while he's still prophesying, they are destroyed and scattered. And the Southern Kingdom is nearly destroyed,

and the only reason they aren't is because Hezekiah listens to Isaiah and gets his people to repent. We read that in 2nd King 17 and 18. It's also in Isaiah 36 and 37, which the come follow me curriculum doesn't have a street because we've already read it. But I would review those chapters and you're reading reading for next time it happens in the middle of that

if you don't remember that that's what's happening you don't understand most of what is a is talking about this is immediate context that he's trying to get them to not be destroyed and he fails with the northern kingdom but he succeeds with Jerusalem most southern kingdom destroyed but Jerusalem is spared because they listened to Isaiah. I think that's our episode with Josh Sears. So I would encourage everyone, go back just a couple of episodes if you haven't heard that one and listen to it with Josh Sears because he goes through this, here comes the northern kingdom of Assyria. It takes out the northern kingdom and is heading straight to the southern kingdom and Basically Isaiah and the king has a kaya stand alone

Between the vast Assyrian army and Jerusalem. It's a it's an epic tale Yeah, I and that episode with Josh was masterful. I listened to your guys's podcast while I make breakfast in the morning Josh was so good at painting that picture of Rob Shekye there with Eliy Akim, Isaiah's representative up on the wall and Rob Shekye down below yelling to him and he just made that applied to my life and I've taught that like a hundred times and he helped me apply it to my life better than I ever have before. Yeah. Yeah, Kerry, can you say that again and explain to everybody just if you can remember a Syrian

captivity, this Babylonian captivity, this, and tie that with Northern Southern kingdoms. Because I think that would help people. Yeah, so during Isaiah's ministry, he starts prophesying, warning the Northern Kingdom that a Syria is going to come, and they need to repent. And they don't, and they are destroyed and scattered by the Assyrian Kingdom. Then the Southern Kingdom is also nearly destroyed by Assyria. Still during the reign of Assyria and during Isaiah's ministry, and the only reason they're spared from the Assyrians is because they listen to Isaiah, but immediately after that, and you get this shift in Isaiah then, about chapter 40,

where really about chapter 39 Where he starts to say okay your next big problem is Babylon and he gives them all the warning They would have needed to avoid being destroyed by Babylon. I love Jeremiah. I absolutely loved Jeremiah But to be honest if they'd listen to Isaiah they wouldn't have needed Jeremiah They would have been having those problems, but they didn't listen to Isaiah So Jeremiah comes in Ezekiel and they don't listen them either. And so they do get destroyed by the Babylonians. It's about a hundred years after they're nearly destroyed by the Assyrians. They are about 115 years. They're destroyed by the Babylonians, and they didn't need to be. That's the tragedy.

And I feel like it helps us understand the Book of Mormon to say, the Babylonian captivity is coming. Lehi, get your family, get out of there. And also perhaps it helps us to understand why Lehi had a tough cell. Because Jerusalem was so miraculously protected during the Assyrian siege. And so, come on, Jerusalem is going to be destroyed. They're going, well, probably not, cause last time the Lord protected us. And I feel like that makes a big, oh, nice see why perhaps people weren't believing Lehi

because it didn't happen that way last time. They reached even onto the neck, doesn't it say? But they never entered Jerusalem. So maybe they're thinking, oh, we're gonna be saved. I think that's exactly why Lehman and Lemiel said, oh, this great city Jerusalem can't be destroyed. Like, we've seen this before. That's fine.

God takes care of us. Kind of forgetting the way you have to be obedient to the covenant to the plus side of that part, right? You know, the Book of Mormon, I remember years and years ago, all of a sudden the history clicked, and it was like finding the perfect puzzle piece that you're missing in a puzzle to see how well the Book of Mormon fits right here in history. It's a testament to the book. And the idea that Lehigh wasn't scattered because of wickedness but to preserve a part

of the family of Joseph and I love that idea. I'm going to scatter you, I'm going to move you out of there and like you said, Hank and so here's Nephi saying, we've got a different area code now, but we are still House of Israel. We still have to keep the covenant and the promises, the covenant still apply to us. And it's kind of, oh, this is why Nephi so interested in Isaiah. I'm glad you said that, Hank. Yeah, and it's so profound. I mean, the reason Isaiah is so interested in the gathering of Israel is because he's witnessing the scattering. And puts yourself in his prophetic shoes.

He is one of the greatest prophets ever. And yet he's going to completely fail in getting the Northern Kingdom to repent. But his comfort in that, he's like Mormon, where he knows, okay, I did my best. I did exactly what God asked me to do, it's not my fault. But I still would have liked for these people to not be destroyed. But his comfort for it is, I know they will be gathered. And one of the things he prophesies frequently about that is he says, well, a remnant will be preserved, right? So you'll have remnants of those tribes from the north

that will be preserved. But one of the fulfillments of that is the remnant that's preserved by Lehigh, as you said, and I think Josh explained it well in that episode you referred to. Josh Sears talks about them being scattered because of their righteousness, but that's God's method for preserving another remnant that then can be gathered. They become wicked, obviously, but they are also in the midst of being gathered. Perfect. So when we jump into these chapters to date, when in that history has Assyria already taken the Northern Kingdom, or we pre that moment, we're really for the most part before that moment, but that brings up another important point. Isaiah's book isn't fully arranged chronologically, largely chronologically, but not completely. But chapter one is after that, it's after Jerusalem has been miraculously spared. We don't know

that for sure, but he seems to be describing when he talks about a cottage in a vineyard. That's Jerusalem, the only city left after everything else has been destroyed, right? So chapter one seems to have been written later, but it's put at the beginning as a preface, much like section one of the doctrine and covenants. This is the preface because it kind of captures the theme of the whole book. So at some point, whoever's arranging, I don't know if it's Isaiah or someone later,

but someone puts that chapter at the beginning. Then you get mostly chronological, but actually some of our chapters that we read for today, and some that are in that section, but we're not assigned to read them, so say chapters 13 through 20 are often called the chapters to the nations. So they're grouped together by category.

These are where Isaiah prophesized to Moab, the Philistines, the Arabs, Assyria, Babylon, and Israel and Judah, and tells them all that because they're not repenting, they're going to be destroyed. But because they've been categorized, and as these chapters to nations, some of them aren't fitting in the chronological order

that you would expect where they're placed in the book. Some of them to Moab, or actually, you can tell after or about the same time that Israel is being destroyed, but that doesn't happen until later chronologically, and the rest of the book. You get a little bit of jumping around in there, but most of our reading, say, chapter 21 through the rest,

is pre-destruction of Israel, although we can't tell exactly when that happens. It probably happens somewhere in the gap between this time's reading and next time, but it's somewhere in there. And then what you'll cover for next week is that period where Judah is almost destroyed. But most of ours is the last moments before Israel is being scattered.

And we also have to remember that Israel is kind of scattered in scatages. So Tiglath-Pilayzar, the third comes down and conquers them and scatters a bunch of scattered in its ages. So Tiglath, Palazare, the third comes down and conquers them and scatters a bunch of them in 732 BC. And then they rebel. And so then you get both Sargon and Shalmanazare. Sargon and Shalmanazare come down and destroy them

and even more in scatter them even more. So you've got two time periods. So some of what we're reading today is probably in between those time periods where they're in the midst of being scattered. And I would guess Isaiah is feeling desperate about that. And so we're going to see in some of the chapters we read his strong warning to the fact that they're following bad leaders and it's causing them a problem and also his promise that at some point God comes and relieves them from those who are oppressing them. And those are themes that are heavy on his mind because of what's going on around him.

Wow. All those kings you spoke of, those are Syrian kings. They are Syrian kings, yeah. They have tough sounding names, right? I mean, Shalmanese, Arctic, Lathopolese, are they sound like they might come and beat you up, right? I'm glad you put it that way because that makes me think of Isaiah as a person to think he's seeing this happen all around him and how heartbreaking that must

have been and would affect the way he described things because he's watching the destruction, he's trying to warn them about it, it's happening anyway. I like that makes you feel for Isaiah a little bit watching this happen and that's why I'm saying this right now. Yeah, in fact, in some of the readings that were not assigned to read, but they're in this kind of section in those prophecies to the nation. So chapter 15 and 16 where he's prophesying about the destruction that's coming to Moab. And remember Moab is just across the river Jordan from them. He probably knows Moabites. I would be shocked if he doesn't know Moaabytes. And as he talks about the vision He sees that the destruction coming into Moa. He says, I'm undone. I'm weak in the knees. I feel sick about this

And you can imagine I mean it almost makes it emotional to think about I say I say and I know those people and I'm seeing Before it's happening. I see what's going to happen to them And it's killing me. It reminds me of Nephi who says, I saw in vision what happens to my people. And it's terrible. It's just heartbreaking. There are a couple of times in our reading for today, if you include even the chapters we're not assigned to read, but also in some of the chapters we're assigned to read,

where Isaiah does give us that personal touch. And he says, this is hard for me. I don't like seeing this stuff. I don't like knowing about this sorrow. Yeah, it's the book Mormon which tells us he's doing this scattering to save the tree, right? That's Jacob five. I have to scatter this tree or the whole thing's going to go bad. All of a sudden I got the message of Jacob five. It grieved with me that I lose this tree over and over and over. Sometimes as I read Isaiah, I think, oh man, they're being punished, but really, they're being saved.

They're being saved and they're being humbled. This is one of the major messages I think of Isaiah and really the Old Testament in general. And when you get to Hosea, look for this, I think Hosea teaches this message better than any other book. But Isaiah is really powerful in this, that God humbles these people when they're not keeping the covenant and an effort to get them to keep the covenant again. And I think this is one of the reasons. So I know this seems strange to people, but for me, no book of scripture conveys the mercy of God like the Old Testament does. And it's because no matter how many times they mess up,

he keeps giving them a chance. So I want you to think about this scattering of Israel that happens during Isaiah's day. And it's so pertinent to our reading because it's happening as Isaiah's making these prophecies. But think about what it does and what it says about God. He scatters Israel because they haven't been keeping the covenant. He's trying to humble them and bring them back to him, and he will succeed in bringing them back to him, but this is a 2500 year cycle. The scattering's in about 730 BC, and the gathering begins in 1820 AD.

That's a 2500 years. That's a patient God, but he's going to keep working with Israel if it takes 2500 years. He's gonna keep working with Israel, and takes 2500 years, he's going to keep working with Israel. And the beauty is now that they've been scattered throughout all the world when they come back to him, they can bring the whole world with them.

It's just such a beautiful plan. It is, and within that 2500 years, you have work in the spirit world then. Yep. That can happen to gather Israel on the other side of the veil. He hasn't forgotten about them either. Yeah. I have to say as an Israelite individual, I try and liken myself to Israel as a whole, thinking that Israel messed up countless times, and God's going to keep working with them, even if it takes 2500 years. Give us me some comfort

that it might take 2500 years for me, but if it takes 2500 years fine, God, that's good with God, right? It'll be as patient as he needs to with me as a covenant individual. That's comforting. Yeah. It's helpful for parents and grandparents who think that they've got to get their child or grandchild to turn it around by next week. But yet at the same time, when you say that, it also gives me a glimpse of how God must feel because I think that about either some of my kids or some of my nieces and nephews

and cousins and so on, I think they'll get it turned around eventually, but I sure hate to see the misery they're going through now. I hate to see the suffering they're bringing upon themselves, and I would guess God feels that way exponentially. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah, I think that the Old Testament teaches us about God's mercy more than any other and I would guess God feels that way exponentially. Yeah. Oh.

Yeah, I think that the Old Testament teaches us about God's mercy more than any other book because we keep seeing how often his covenant people break the covenant and how he always gives them another chance. No matter how hard it is, no matter how much work it takes or how long it takes, God always gives him another chance

and he will succeed in bringing them back. And that's incredible mercy. I'm so glad you said that because I know that probably all of us hear this idea of the Old Testament God seems kind of like angry and the New Testament God seems kind of like this. And so for you to say that helps people to look for that. Recently, I was reading about Coriantin, you know how Alma talks to him and he says, do not know more the justice of God and do not excuse yourself, but let the justice of God and his mercy and his long suffering. You are missing those parts, Coriantin. You are only seeing this.

And then he said, let them have full sway in your heart. What an interesting phrase that God has all of those in a perfect harmony, His justice, His mercy, and His patience, His long suffering, and let all of that have full sway in your heart if you want to have a picture of what God is, is really lying. It's a theme that moves me and is very important to me. In fact, the first thing I ever wrote was really on this topic because I'm so moved by it.

It speaks to me. The manual talks about this. Right in the opening, part of the lesson, it says that, here's Isaiah's assignment to go tell these powerful rulers of these mighty kingdoms that they must repent or be destroyed. It was a dangerous task, but Isaiah was fearless and his warnings to the kingdoms of his day, including Israel and Judah, were bold.

And then the next paragraph, John, this is what you just said. However, Isaiah also had a message of hope. Even though the prophesied destruction eventually did come upon these kingdoms, Isaiah foresaw a chance for restoration and renewal. The Lord would invite his people to return to him. He would make the parts to ground become a pool and the thirsty land spring of water. He would perform a marvelous work and wonder, restoring to Israel the blessings he had

promised them. Don't forget both sides. You're seeing, yes, there's a destruction that's coming because of disobedience and breaking covenants, but there's also always that chance at renewal and restoration. Wonderful. All right, Kerry, you ready to jump into these chapters? Yeah, yeah, and there's more to cover than we could possibly cover. So let's just pick a couple of verses, maybe sometimes a whole chapter, but sometimes a couple of verses within a chapter, to highlight things, and see what we can talk about. One thing, maybe we'll just touch on, we won't maybe even read much from it, but if we're going to talk about. One thing, maybe we'll just touch on, we won't maybe even read much from it, but if we're going to talk about these kind of multiple fulfillments, I think a good example of

that is in Isaiah chapter 13 and 14 when it's talking about Babylon, but it's also clear that it's talking about Satan at the exact same time. So this is a prophecy that Babylon will destroy Judah at some point. And Isaiah has seen this in vision. It's going to destroy Judah, but it will be destroyed. And all these nations that it humbled, and it's actually fairly short-lived empire, really big and powerful and less than a hundred years and it's gone. And he compares that really to Satan, who is powerful, but Satan's day really is short.

And at some point, just like all the nations that have been conquered by Babylon and they say, we're still here and you're gone, that's kind of weird. One day we're all gonna say that to Satan. So that's just a great example of him riding something, crafting it so carefully and so well that it fits perfectly both situations, and as a result in many ways Babylon becomes the symbol and still is used today as the symbol for Satan and world and worldliness because of the way that Isaiah

so carefully equates the two. The northern kingdom of Israel is going to be destroyed by Assyria, around 722-721 BC. And Isaiah is going to have a message for both of those kingdoms. The southern kingdom of Judah, which Lehigh was a part of, is going to fall around 587-586 BC by Babylon, B.C. by Babylon and the Lord has a message not only to Judah, but also to the destroyers. Babylon. As if Babylon's coming in going, look how powerful we are and the Lord is saying, hold on a second. I have a message for you. And then this same message can apply to the adversary and his kingdom. That's exactly right. And I don't want to complicate things too much, but I think we won't understand a few things

if we don't remember that. In the middle of those, in between those, at about 701 BC, Judah is nearly destroyed by Assyria as well. And so some of the prophecies about Assyria are about what they're doing to Judah while some of them are about what they're doing to the kingdom of Israel. And then some of the prophecies are about what Babylon're doing to Judah while some of them are about what they're doing to the kingdom of Israel. And then some of the prophecies are about what Babylon will do to Judah.

All three of those time periods are addressed by Isaiah and he lives through two of them. I don't know. I find this just ironic that here comes Babylon thinking they're all tough and amazing and they destroy Judah and there's a message. Oh, by the way, you are a tool Judah and there's a message, oh by the way, you are a tool in God's hand. There's a Syria that he tells that to. You are a tool in God's hand. Don't be thinking you're high and mighty just because you took this kingdom. And all of this is so transient when they think that they're so powerful and yet in comparison with God, it's just a blip in time.

I was actually thinking about this just before I came here. I met a person who knew my dad, and he was talking about a guy who was a big bully there, and so on, and then how he was tough enough to beat this bully, and so on. And this guy who at this point is 87 years old and was having a hard time walking over to meet me, right? And so these guys who were all so tough in their day are having a hard time moving along, and that's my future me, right? And so these guys who were all so tough in their day

are having a hard time moving along and that's my future too, right? I mean, we're all gonna get to. And it's the same thing with empires. We all think we're so big and bad at some point. And Satan is the par excellence version of this. He really thinks he's big and bad, but the day's coming where he's just gone.

And the only thing that's gonna last are things that are connected with God. I saw a t-shirt in Jerusalem. It was a list of all of the kingdoms that attacked Israel and failed. Have you seen that one? Yeah, I love that t-shirt. Yeah, and there's my favorite description of the different Jewish feasts, many of which still practice today was they tried to kill us. They failed. Let's eat.

And that t-shirt you had, if I remember I had the summary at the bottom, it's something like nations that fight against God or Israel or God's covenant people or something like that. Nations that fight against God, zero, God, 14 or something. Yeah, something like that. What's chapter do you want to start with? I'd like to start with one that again is in the range of chapters we cover this week, but it's not actually in the assigned reading, but it has some things in it that are just important enough that I think it's key to understand a couple of things. So if we went to chapter 22, we won't look at every verse in here, but I want to look at a couple of verses that I think are

really important. And we can also see just some of Isaiah's amazing poetic abilities. So it starts out in chapter 22 verse 1. He says, the burden of the valley of vision, what alith the now that they were not wholly gone up to the house tops, they were at full of stirers, a tumultuous city, joyous city, thy slain men are not slain with the sword nor dead in battle. So let's think about that. The Valley of Vision, this, we typically think of this as the Kidron Valley. And the reason for this, to some degrees, because there are a number of visions where you see Jerusalem is seen, they know about what's going to happen in the future in Jerusalem. So there are a lot of visions that surround that area that people have had about what

will happen there. But it's also a play on words because these are people who should have a vision. Remember this phrase from Moses where there is no vision to people perish. They should have a vision, but they've lost their vision. So now all they care about is going up on top of their roofs and having a party. They're no longer having the kind of eternal vision or a long term perspective. All they care about is partying, and God lets them know that actually they are going to have people who die with the sword and

so on. But both when a Syria comes, when Babylon comes later, when Rome comes against Jerusalem, the majority of people that die die from famine because they lay siege to the city. They're not slain by the sword or in battle. They're slain because they're starving, and these are the same people who are actually up there having a big banquet on their rooftop and they're about to starve to death because they don't have the kind of vision that they should. Wonderful poetic stuff.

Let's continue with that idea just a little bit by skipping over to verse 7, where he says, it shall come to pass at thy choices, valleys, be full of chariots and the horsemen shall set themselves Array at the gate so he's continuing this play on words with the valley of vision But what's the vision that Isaiah is seeing? He's seen the Assyrian army and he probably sees the Babylonian army too Coming against them and in the verse before he talks about Elim and Kerr who we know were countries that both of those countries had conquered and they forced them in their army and they came to battle against them Specifically we know what's badtable on that they those two countries were there laying siege to Jerusalem

He's saying you want to talk about a vision now. It's a nightmare And the nightmare is that you wake up and you look out and you're surrounded by the biggest armies in the world and you've got a problem and then He goes on to warn them. And I think this is so important because this is one of the places where he gives a warning to Jerusalem and Hezekiah that makes a difference. So let's read this. This makes a huge difference.

We're going to go to verse 9. You've seen also the breaches in the city of David that are many, and you gather together the waters of the lower pool. And you have numbered the houses of Jerusalem and the houses of you broken down to fortify the wall. You also made a ditch between the two walls for the water of the old pool. Now, we're gonna pause there.

We're gonna read the second part of that verse in a second. But he's talking about what Hezekiah has done. So historically, when the northern kingdom was conquered and destroyed, it was partially because of what you talked about last time with Jason Combs and what's happening in Isaiah chapter 7 through 9, where A has this problem that the Northern Kingdom and Syria want them to join them in battle against us, Syria, and Isaiah warns them. He says, don't do that and don't go to a Syria either. Just do nothing repent and let God take care of it. But he chooses to listen to the world instead. So he goes to

us, Syria says, come help me. Syria helps him, but as a result, the kingdom of Judah becomes a vassal to us, Syria. And now they have to send huge amounts of taxes, and they have to send men and women to be their servants and their slaves and to be in their armies. So their children, their, their teenagers are going to tribute every year. And after a while, this becomes too burdensome. They just can't keep doing it. And so Hezekiah is going to rebel.

He's going to withhold that tribute. That's the form of the rebellion. He's withholding the tribute. So as he's getting ready to do this, he says, okay, well, I know Assyria will come against me. What do I need to do to get ready? So he does a number of things. One of them is he's gonna make to do this, he says, okay, well, I know a Syria will come against me. What do I need to do to get ready? So he does a number of things. One of them is he's gonna make an alliance with Egypt.

And Isaiah is gonna get after him for that. We're gonna come back to that in a minute. But the other things is he's going to prepare Jerusalem. He's going to get Jerusalem ready for a siege. Now, he's had a lot of people move into Jerusalem because they were refugees from the Northern Kingdom. So he has to kind of expand the city in the wall anyway. So he's going to repair the breaches in the wall of the city of David. So the city of David is not Bethlehem. Luke's the only person that

refers to it. Bethlehem is the city of David. And that's just because Luke was a Greek who didn't know anything about what was going on there. Okay. Every other time you read city of David, it's Jerusalem. All right, but I don't want to ruin your Christmas ims. They're still nice, but he's talking about Jerusalem here, the City of David. He's a guy who's seen the breaches in the wall and he's going to fix them. And he also is going to build a huge wall to encompass the new inhabitants of the city that there wasn't room for them in the city, so they built outside of the city. He's going to encompass them behind this huge wall. And archaeologically, we found this wall. It's called the broad wall because it is so wide. It's also really tall, but it is so wide.

And note this part where you sit, the houses you've broken down, affordify the wall. You can go into Jerusalem today. If you're out by the Herva synagogue and just behind there, you'll see where they've got this place where you can still see the remains of the wall. And you can see it's one of the places where it's built on top of a house. It goes right through a house. It's gotta be one of the houses that Isaiah's talking about in this verse, and Isaiah's a little unhappy about it.

He says, you're tearing stuff down and doing all these things to try and fortify the city on your own. And he also talks about gathering the water so that the Assyrians won't have it, but they can have water inside themselves. This is when they built what's called Hezekiah's Tunnel. It was probably started by his father, Ahaz, archaeologically it seems we've recently been

uncovering clues that it was started by Ahaz, but it's finished in Hezekiah's day and he probably does most of the work. We don't know for sure, but it's probably mostly in Hezekiah's day, so we call it Hezekiah's Tunnel, where they build this tunnel to take it from the spring of Gihon, and instead of having it go outside the city like it had up to that point, he's going to tunnel all the way underneath the city and bring it down to the bottom of the city where they'll create the pull of Salome that later Jesus will send a blind man to wash his eyes at. And so that's the tunnel that he's talking about there. So all of those are things that I, or Hezekiah is doing to get ready for this battle.

But I want you to now look at the last part of verse 11. After he says you built this ditch between the two walls for the water of the old pool, that's Hezekiah's tunnel we're talking about. But ye have not looked unto the maker thereof, neither had respect unto him that fashioned it long ago. See, initially Hezekiah's following in his father's footsteps. He's trusting in the power of man in the world, aligning himself with Egypt, building up these fortifications, and he's not turning to God. He's not trusting in God.

And Isaiah is warning him here, and thank goodness Hezekiah listens. Now, tradition holds it that Hezekiah A has, and it might be Uzzi, and one of the kings is a cousin with Isaiah, and that actually Hezekiah A has and it might be Uzzi, and one of the kings is a cousin with Isaiah and that actually Hezekiah may have married Isaiah's daughter, so Isaiah might be his father-in-law. That's all tradition, we don't know if it's true or not.

But if so, then it's nice that Hezekiah, he can get access to Hezekiah and he listens to him. But one way or the other, Hezekiah listens and he repents. Now, it doesn't mean he stops doing these things or that these things are a problem if you're turning to God. And in fact, an Egyptian army does come and that's what draws the Assyrian army away from Jerusalem

and then God smites that army. But the Egyptian army did play a role in the saving of Jerusalem, but it wouldn't have, or at least it wouldn't have been successful if they hadn't started turning to God. These walls and this water helped them, but they wouldn't have, and they wouldn't have been successful if they hadn't started turning to God. These walls and this water helped them, but they wouldn't have, and they wouldn't have

been enough if they hadn't turned to God. And that's the message that Isaiah is trying to get to, a. Has Hezekiah and everyone who would ever listen to them. Start trusting in God. Forget about what the world is teaching you and trust in God. I'm so glad he has a guy listened. It reminds me of President Hinckley used to say, I pray as if everything relies on God,

I work as though everything relies on me. So yeah, build your tunnels, go get the water, the way you wanna get it, but you better be putting just as much effort into your reliance and relationship with God. And if they hadn't repented and gotten rid of their idolatry, all these things wouldn't have worked because they did get rid of the idolatry and they renewed the covenant and kept it.

They work. And you know, in the war chapters in the book, Mormon, Captain Roni does this. It's get your spiritual act together. Okay. Now that we've done that, let's build fortifications and make swords and stuff like that. It's really interesting to me that even in a war, you don't make your spiritual life a back burner thing. Oh, we're too busy for that right now. We've got to make our swords and our fortifications. It's, no, no, no, that's job. You've got to get your act together, job one spiritually. And then don't leave the other undone, but get your act together first. and then we'll see

that here. In fact, as you say that reminds me of Moroni, son Moroni, who after they lose a whole bunch of land of the Lamanites works on getting everyone to repent and then it says once they had repented, he felt like he could start to go from city to city and start to retake cities and he only gets half of them, but he wouldn't even try until he'd gotten the people to get their spiritual lives in order. Yeah, job one. Let's keep going in chapter 22, if it's all right. We'll just jump forward a couple of verses, but we get some really interesting stuff happening just after this. Verse 15 is where we want to start. After God is warning them that they need to repent, that they're relying on the wrong kinds of things. They're so worried about what the world is warning them that they need to repent, that they're relying on the wrong kinds of things.

They're so worried about what the world is telling them. He gives us an example of this, and he's going to do something specifically about it. So let's go to verse 15. Thus, say at the Lord God of hosts, go get the under this treasurer, even under Shabna, which is over the house. So Shabna is a person who holds a very important position. He's the steward of the King's house and the treasurer. Being steward of the King's house basically means he is the one who does everything the King wants to have done. So, he's like the Chancellor or something like this. He's the guy who actually gets it done. Very important, very powerful. Kind of like an executive secretary.

Yeah, that's exactly right. I'm with you on that. Verse 16 is what he says, What has thou here? And whom has thou here? That thou has hewed thee out a sepliker here as he that heweth him out a sepliker on high and that gravesth and habitation for himself in a rock. So his complain is, what are you doing?

You're putting all your wealth into a huge sepliker that you're carving out for yourself. And interestingly, we've actually found the lentil over a big sepulchre that says it's Shabna, son of son, so and so. That mean we found the sepulchre is talking about and that lentil is now in a museum. But you see his point here,

what you're doing is ridiculous in two ways. One, you're so concerned with having a big, sumptuous tomb, you're spending all of your time and your resources and your wealth on that when you're about to be destroyed And to who cares about the tomb right? It's transient your body's there for a little while at molders You'll never really enjoy it. What are you thinking? He's all concerned. He's so concerned with all the wrong things with transient Unimportant things that the world has told him to be concerned about so this is what Isaiah says is going to happen to him as a result, verse 17 and 18. Behold, the Lord will carry thee away with a mighty captivity and will surely cover thee.

He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country. Their shout thou die, and their the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy Lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station and from thy state shall he be pulled thee down." So he said, basically saying, when the Syria comes because you haven't gotten them to repent, you haven't, you've been spending your time on the world's ideas instead of my ideas, you're going to go into captivity in, in a Syria and you're going to die there. You're not going to get to use this tome anyway.

And so as a result, I'm going to remove you from your station right now and you're going to die there. You're not going to get to use this to him anyway. And so as a result, I'm going to remove you from your station right now, because you're not doing what you should be doing. You're spending your time on the wrong things. Talk about being caught up in the thick of thin things. I mean, that's exactly right. You've got bigger problems than you're focused on, well, I want to make sure my grave is pretty.

Right? Yeah. And the irony, okay, go ahead, but you're not going to get used to it anyway. Yeah. I just like the phrase violently turn and toss the like a ball into a large country. There's a sports sound to that thing right there. He's just going to bounce past him over into a cereal, right? There's a lot of application there, Kerry. Don't you think? What are you spending your time on this floor? There are real battles out there. Your children, your grandchildren are fighting real battles, and here you are concerned with whatever you're concerned with, what your Instagram feed looks like.

I think we can all take a moment right now and ask ourselves, what is it that I'm spending so much of my time and energy on because the world has told me that this is important. And I really should be putting my time and resources into something else. There's got to be some way for all of us that that's happening right now. It's not an if question, it is a how question. How is it happening for us? And as we're talking, I'm thinking of some things I can do differently, Sue. Now we have an unspoken principle in the transition that's going to happen

here, but I think it's worth talking about. You may probably remember chapter one, and right before the famous verses, verse 18, where he says, oh, you're supposed to be a scarlet, they should be white as snow. You get verse 16, where he says, you've got to quit doing the evil stuff. And verse 17, where he says, you've got to start doing the good stuff. And the transition between them, the last little line of verse 16 and the first line of verse 17 is,

cease to do evil, that's the end of 16, and then first line of 17, learn to do well. That's an Isaiah one. This is the principle. Yeah, Isaiah chapter one, verse 16 and 17. And then right after that, he's gonna say repent and we can get you all cleaned up here though it's ready to can become why.

I can't tell you how many times this is a bishop, I've used that phrase that cease to do evil, learn to do well because when you're trying to stop a bad behavior, you have to replace it with a good one. If not, you've got this vacuum and you slip back into the bad behavior. Got to replace it with a good one. If not, you've got this vacuum and you slip back into the bad behavior. You've got to replace it with a good one. So that cease to do evil, learn to do well is profound. And that's what he's going to do for Judah here.

He's going to get rid of Shepna and he's going to put in someone really good in his place. So let's read what he does. Verse 20, and it shall come to pass in that day that I will call my servant Eliakeem, the son of Hilkaya. This is the same Eliakeem that when you were talking with Josh Sears and Rob Shekhe came to the wall and was yelling up there, Isaiah's major representative is Eliakeem. This is the guy. This is how we got into that position that he would be doing that. And I will clothe him with thyrobes. So he's talking to Chebna and he's saying, I'm taking away your robe. I will close him with thy robe and strengthen him with thy girdle,

and I will commit thy government into his hand. And he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, into the house of Judah, and the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder, so he shall open a nun shall shut and he shall shut and nun shall open. So let's think about that. He's going to give him the robes of office that Shabna wears. The description of his robes are very similar to the description of the robes that Aaron would receive. And you went over that with Matt Gray, I remember, where you've got this priestly robe and then a girdle, and then he's got the brass effa, but coming up from that on the shoulders are symbols of insignias of power or authority. And that's what he's describing is there's some kind of way that this person in this very important position dresses, where he has the robe and the girdle that is close to a priestly robe and girdle, and there's an insignia that goes on his shoulder that says that he has the key to the whole government. Underneath the king, he does everything. By the way, this is the kind of image that Isaiah

must have been referring to back in chapter 9 when he said, and the government will I lay upon his shoulders. And you can probably hear Handel's Messiah singing that, but that's the image that they're drawing on. And we see the ceiling imagery in verse 22 where he says, he'll open, and he'll shut, and he'll open. That's again, drawing on priesthood power allegory, but what he's saying is, he'll be so powerful that besides the king, if he says something's going to happen, no one can make it not happen.

And if he says something shouldn't happen, no one can make it happen. So you see these, these are allusions to Christ. This is about Eliakim, but these are allusions to Christ. And that's strengthened when we get to verse 23. And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place, and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house. And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, the offspring, and the issue, all vessels of small quantity from the vessels of cups even to all the

vessels of flagants. So in the original context, this is still talking about Eliakeem, and there are a couple of symbols I think with this nail in a sure place. One is that I'm giving him this office so securely, it's like I fasten this with a nail that can't come out. That's how much I'm giving him this office so securely, it's like I fastened this with a nail that can't come out. That's how much I'm putting him in this office and no one's taking him from it. And he's going to fulfill this office so well that it will make his father's house glorious, it gives glory to his father and his family name,

and he's gonna be the most glorious of any of his family because of this. And so that's one of the fulfillments or one of the symbols. But there's a second symbol, at least in Mesopotamia. And so this is a Near Eastern neighborhood culture with which Israel would be very familiar. And they may have done this in Israelite places as well. And we just maybe haven't found the archaeological examples.

But in Mesopotamia, in a temple or in some of the palaces and a couple really important houses, they would symbolically take a big clay nail and they would write the terms of the treaty or the covenant. So the agreement with God that you would sort of the God of that temple or the agreement with this king, you would write it on that clay nail and you would then sink it into that temple or that house. And that symbolically says this temple functions and is built upon this covenant

agreement. And that's a nail in a sure place. And so I think there's some symbolism here as well that the covenant with the house of David, this David covenant is going to function here. I will save you like I promised I would because of what Eliakim will do. And what does Eliakim do? He works with Hezekiah, and Hezekiah gets his people to get rid of their idolatry, repent, renew their covenant, and serve God so that they'll be miraculously spared. And that's the original context. But when I think of that, it helps me understand all

the better how this applies to Christ. Because Christ is also a fulfillment of someone who brings glory to his Father's throne and has the government upon his shoulders and has the key to the house of David and is fastened with a nail in a sure place and gets us to get rid of our idolatry and repent and renew our covenant so that we can serve God and thus be saved. I understand that better about Christ because I see what's happening with Eliakim here. So good.

I should also note that verse 25, the last verse in the chapter, is a little hard to understand first of all, the Hebrew of it is a little bit weird. And secondly, Joseph Smith tells us, no one understands this verse. So I'm okay that I don't understand it. I fit Joseph Smith tells us, no one understands this verse. So, I'm okay that I don't understand it. I fit in that category of the no one. I don't have a lot to say about that verse. But the verses before that, I feel like we can understand fairly well. You know, there's a footnote for our listeners. Footnote 20a, it says, Elyah Keem shall replace Shabna. Moreover, the symbolic name Elyah, came, in ensuing verses becomes representative of the Messiah,

the Savior, especially verses 23 through 25. The name means God shall cause to arise. So that's one of those where I want to mark the footnote as well as the verses. I agree. When we did Ezra chapter nine, verse eight says this, and now for a little space, Grace have been showed from the Lord our God

to leave us a remnant to escape and to give us a nail in his holy place. That our God may lighten our eyes and give us a little reviving in our bondage. That's an interesting phrase, a nail in his holy place, but the footnote 8b takes us to Isaiah 22 verses 23 and 25, which we just read. So that was one of those ones I wanted to tie together. And it makes me think that they may have done this in the same way we were talking

about with those Mesopotamian temples, that they may have had a nail in the temple. And it's not a real nail that holds things together because it's made a clay, right? But there may have been something that had the terms of the covenant on it that is placed in the temple because the temple is so much about the covenant with the house of Israel today and in their day. So I just want to make sure I understand that correctly, Kerry. There's a symbolic nail placed into the temple with the terms of the covenant, and that would be this nail in the sure place. And it's the nail that makes everything sure. The covenant is what makes it sure.

And that's because Christ makes it possible for the covenant to be fulfilled. And so you can see the symbolism going back and forth between the covenant and Christ and the nail and what Christ suffers and so on. I think it's just a beautiful interweaving of language and symbols. Yeah, definitely one of those connect the old and new testaments together. This is why Isaiah was brilliant. There could be a present fulfillment and there could be a future fulfillment of so many of the things he said or maybe even multiple fulfillments.

Yeah, for sure, multiple fulfillments. And again, I think if you understand the original context, usually you understand the other fulfillments, all the better. It's like, I said, when you understand a symbol, you need to look at at the literal symbol first and then you can understand all of the ways it can be applied. If you understand the original context, you understand better all of the other ways it can be applied. Right. Don't jump automatically to the second level or third level. Stay in his time and his time period, the things they are dealing with in their day, because they're amazing. Yeah, I mean, that's one of the reasons why I wrote the commentary I did. I love all the

commentaries that our friends and colleagues have written and they're wonderful. And so I thought, well, do I really need another one? But one of the things that I felt like is that we so often, even in all those commentaries, jump to the latter day fulfillment and don't spend much time on the original context and that that hamper's our ability to really understand it. So I tried to spend a lot of time, not as much time as we could and not in every verse, but a lot of time, on the original context. I always understand the history, the geography, and the culture, and how they would have taken it. And then we can take that next step.

And so I try and do that, have the next step as well. And I don't do it for every verse because the book would be too big. But I feel like that's something as members of the Church, we can do better this year than ever before, because we've paid the price to understand the history better this year than ever before. And so we should be able to get more out of that original context so that we can then get more out of how it applies to us. Hmm, that's wonderful.

Well, I think this is one of the reasons that Jesus would say great of the words of Isaiah because he pulls this off. He speaks of things in one time and it applies in another time. And you're, how did he do that? I've had students. Well, I still don't understand why greater the words of Isaiah. Well look what he was able to do here. I think for me the one that is amazing is he can describe the coming Assyrian army with a army type intent and a future army of missionaries in the latter days and he uses the same words and it works both ways. And you're like, how did he do that? He's impressive. I can't tell you how many times I mean, I've studied Isaiah a lot. I mean, I've written about every single verse. I've studied him

intensely, I've taught classes in Isaiah for quite a while now. And still, every time I read him, I'll think, oh, I never noticed that. Well, that's good. That's really good. That's why Jesus, when he sees Isaiah, I'm sure he says, love your book. Whenever it seems like Jesus wants to quote scripture, he quotes Isaiah. Yeah. Isaiah and Psalms are where he goes most. And then right, yeah. Well, what if we jump ahead, and we're just gonna kind of summarize,

one of the things I think can be helpful in understanding Isaiah is understanding kind of sections or chunks of Isaiah that work together. In fact, that's another clue I'd love to give all your audience. Often, I can't tell you how often in my commentary, I wrote this at the first verse of one chapter, I would say, this just continues the thought

that was in the last chapter, but we see a chapter heading and... We do a memory wipe, yeah. Yeah, but so often, it's like, say, six chapters that are really all one thought. They just go together, right? And if you can see those kind of chunks and realize, okay, these go together, and here's really a break,

and then these go together, I think that's really useful. So, I would say chapters 24 through 27 are a cohesive unit. One thought, oh wow. Yeah, it's worth looking at in that way. So Isaiah's finished prophesying to all of the nations, and now he's gonna start to really focus on Judah again. And we get this unit that ties together where some people actually think that 24 through 27 was so cohesive

They feel like it's written by a different person at a later time period and that someone just stuck it in here and Theologically, I don't have a problem with that I'm fine if there was some other inspired writer that people said oh this is like Isaiah put it in Isaiah's book if it's inspired fine with me I'm not convinced by that because it seems so like Isaiah, the themes work with Isaiah. I think it's just a really cohesive unit. So to me, it's probably more likely that at some point in time, probably maybe just as Israel starting to be scattered

or something like that, and it's almost maybe panicked about Judah and wanting to save Judah, something like that. He writes either a sermon or a couple of sermons together in his mind, and they become these chapters. I don't know if that's how it really worked, but I would guess it's something like that. And the major theme here is that while Judah will need to be humbled, they can be rescued and will be rescued by God and be able to rejoice as a result. And so these in many ways are, I know you're going to be humbled, but there's reason to rejoice,

because God will deliver you section of chapters. Now, that's a theme that's all throughout Isaiah, and we get it again and again, but it's particularly tied in these sections. In fact, I would say and we get it again and again, but it's particularly tied in these sections. In fact, I would say covenant and redemption are the two most prevalent themes in the book of Isaiah. And of course, redemption comes because of God's servant, who is primarily Christ, but also other servants. But Christ primarily is the servant that gives us redemption.

And so covenant and redemption are what are so important to him. And that's really strong in this area. These chapters 24 to 27, they're sometimes called the little apocalypse because they're about this idea of, you will have bad things happen to you, but don't worry, God will relieve the oppression, and you'll be delivered and have joy. That's actually has some really important ladder day fulfillment, right? Apocalyptic fulfillment. We know it's going to happen at the end of time. Kerry, so if I'm placing this in my timeline, this is when Assyria has taken the Northern Kingdom and

is coming into the Southern Kingdom and you're thinking it's over for us. I don't know if we can help precisely we can place it. I think it's likely either in between 730 and 720 when Israel has started to be scattered but it's not completely scattered but Isaiah can see oh Judah's next or it might be in between 720 and say 700 when the northern kingdom has been Ascattered and Isaiah sees that Judah is next but so it's somewhere in there I really get the sense that he says, all right, we're starting to see what this looks like when it happens and I don't like it

and I really want my people to miss it. But he knows it's going to happen and he wants to give them reason to rejoice nonetheless, right? Like Nephi who says, okay, I know my people get destroyed, but Isaiah gives me reason to have comfort. Eventually it gets good. As bad as comfort. Eventually, it gets good. As bad as it is, eventually, it gets good. Yeah.

That's just a lesson in itself, right there. Sermon in a sentence. This bad is it is. Eventually, it gets good. Yeah. I was gonna ask you before, who divided these into chapters? When did that actually happen? When a cohesive thought was broken up into chapters

that we use today? For some prophets, we don't know how their word gets put into writing. Someone like Amos who was out working behind the flock and so on, probably wasn't even literate. And what he prophesied, someone else probably had to write down. Jeremiah was literate, but we know he had described his words down. With Isaiah, I suspect Isaiah did his own writing because it's probably too complex for anyone else to do and do well. He makes up words, he does all sorts of stuff. And I'm not exaggerating, he does make up words,

making plays on words, and he just kind of makes stuff up. In fact, we'll look at some examples in a minute. I don't think anyone else could probably pull off writing the stuff that Isaiah writes. He probably has to put his own words down because no one else would like, wait, how do you say that again? Elder Maxwell. That's exactly right.

Yeah, how would you like to try and get all of Elder Maxwell's phrases down just perfectly if he does it all orally and it's your job to get it in a book, right? Good one. The question you're asking is after it's written down, how is it divided? And I don't know. Did Isaiah do some of that himself maybe? Or is it some people later who have just collected all of his writings and they're putting it to and the answer is we don't know We really don't know. What about like when we found the Dead Sea Scrolls on Isaiah was there where they were they divided? Yeah, they're pretty much how we have them. But I mean, that's 200 BC,

so that's 500 years after this. So that great Isaiah scroll is one of the oldest scrolls that they had in the Dead Sea Scrolls. So 500 years later, at least, it was already in pretty close to the same form we have it in. Fascinating. So let's just start on on chapter 25 and and just read a few of these verses and then we can talk about it. We'll start in verse one. Oh Lord, thou art my God. Now I'm just going to stop right here and say I talked about Abrahamic covenant language, right? One of the phrases that is so much about the Abrahamic covenant is that God is our God and we are his people, right? That's just said to Abraham it's a consistent part of it. So really anytime you see the phrase, my people,

or the phrase, my God, it should be a little clue we're dealing with covenant language. So that's how this starts out. O Lord, thou art my God. This is a covenant keeper who's saying this. It's Isaiah, of course, but it's also Isaiah's, I think, speaking for anyone who's really keeping the covenant. O Lord, thou art my God. I will exalt thee. I will praise thy name for thou hast done wonderful things that councils of old

are faithfulness and truth. And we're going to acknowledge how amazing and wonderful God is. It's almost solemn like that verse. It is, yeah. For thou has made of a city and heap of a distanced city, a ruin, a palace of strangers to be no city. It shall never be built. Now, when I think of praising God, the first thing I think of is not,

man, you destroyed a lot of cities. That was so cool. But for someone who is being attacked by foreign armies again and again and again. Good point. This is what you think of. You can take whole cities and lay them waste. By this point, maybe Isaiah is thinking about cities in the northern kingdom that have been destroyed. Verse three, therefore, shall the strong people glorify the, the city of the terrible nations shall fear thee. I think he's saying, we're going to glorify you and a serious should be afraid. But of course, this can have applications

in all sorts of ways. It's not just in his own day, we should think, okay, well, the way Nephi would put this if he's thinking of his vision that he has in 1st Nephi 4.14 is that the children of the Lamb of God, the Church of the Lamb of God, and the great and abominable Church. He's going to see it in those terms. There are all sorts of ways we can see it. Verse 4 is beautiful, I think. For thou has been a strength to the poor, a strength to the needy in his distress. That's this sounds like something I heard in the introduction. A refuge from the storm, a shadow from the heat when the blast of the terrible ones is as a storm against the wall. Thou shalt bring down the noise of strangers as the heat in a dry place, even the heat with the shadow of a cloud. The branch of the terrible ones shall be brought down low.

So those who oppress us are going to be brought down just like you can see heat falling, right? In this mountain shall the Lord of Host make unto all people a feast of fat things. So know how he keeps contrasting these images. You're getting rid of our oppressors and you're taking care of us, which is exactly what the covenant promises will happen. So verse five is the getting rid of the oppressors

verse six and the mountain that's typically referring not always, but typically referring to the temple, or at least the temple mount. So there the Lord will make a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the leaves, a fat things full of marrow of wines on the leaves, well refined, right? So he's saying, you're giving us the best of the best. We are gonna have a fantastic feast here,

and now we're getting to the part I really want to focus on, verse 7 and 8, and he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people and the veil that is spread over all nations. That's probably supposed to be read a bunch of ways, but at least one of the important ways I read this is the thing that separates us from God is going to be destroyed. Again, it's in this mountain, that's the temple, and so there's a veil that's spread over all nations, but it's covering us and separating us from God is going to be destroyed. Again, it's in this mountain. That's the temple. And so there's a veil that's spread over all nations, but it's covering us and separating us from God. So I think that's one of the interpretations. I'm sure there are others, but one of the interpretations would be here when we have this great feast when God has really taken care of us, there's not going to be

something that separates us. Now look at verse 8, he will swallow up death in victory and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces. That is one of my favorite lines in all of scripture. He will swallow up death in victory and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth for the Lord hath spoken it. That is just so wonderful to think of God wiping our tears with. Death is conquered. So it's not just a Syria that's conquered. In this case, a Syria is standing as a symbol for death itself. And Christ or Jehovah is defeating death and wiping tears away from us. Verse 9, and as she'll be said, in that day, low, this is our God. There's

that covenant imagery again. We have waited for him, and he will save us. This is the Lord. We have waited for him. We will be glad and rejoice in His salvation. Just beautiful images of how all oppression, every kind of oppression, will be ended, and God will save us and wipe away our tears. Please join us for part two of this podcast.