Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Judges 2-4; 6-8; 13-16 -- Part 2 : Dr. Dana M. Pike

Episode Date: May 30, 2022

Dr. Pike continues his discussion of Gideon, and Deborah in the Book of Judges. Dr. Pike explores the story of Samson in the Book of Judges and shares his testimony as a scholar and man of faith.Please rate and review the podcast!Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/old-testament/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive ProducersDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing & SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Rough Video EditorAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsKrystal Roberts: French TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. We'll have to run through A-Hood to get to Deborah. In chapter 3, verse 10, the Spirit of the Lord came upon him. This is our first judge who we're skipping over really quickly, oatmeal. And you could ask yourself this question. We're reading about judges. You said there were 12. How were they chosen? Who picked the judges? It's not a lottery system. We never hear about

elections. This is the standard feature. And it's not mentioned in the case of every judge, but several of them, this is our line. And it's going to happen later with young Saul as well that we read, the Spirit of Lord came upon the person. They're gifted with divine assistance, capabilities. People seem to recognize that and attribute it as gifts from the Lord to this person to help them out. So, over 10. Spirit of Lord came upon and he judged Israel,

he went out to war. There's the judging that we end up hearing about is the ummmilitary leader. I'm going to help free my tribe, my neighboring tribes from the oppression of these neighbors who live around us. I wrote a talk called Five Temptation Killers and I used this story from Aehood and Eglon. I said, Eglon represents addiction and Aehood is you and how do you stab addiction and get rid of it?

And Aehood escaped, you know, this Eglon who was this job of the type character. A. Who does his thing in the land rests? This is chapter 3 verse 30. Moab was subdued. The lander had rest for four score years, 80 years. And then in verse 31, here's our only information about a fellow named Shamgar, the son of Anadhusu Philistines killed 600 men with an oxgoed and helped deliver Israel, and we're done with him, and we moved on to Debra in chapter 4. And actually, chapters 4 and 5 deal with Debra. Chapter 4 is the pros narration of these events. Chapter 5 is poetry, and if you look at 5-1, then saying Debra and Barak,

the Israelite military leader with her, and they sing a song. And hopefully this reminds readers of Exodus chapter 15. In chapter 14, the Lord delivers them through the red sea, the red sea, they get to the other side, the Egyptians are destroyed, and they sing about it in Exodus 15, Moses and people. And then Miriam helps lead some of the women in singing in that setting. Here we've got Deborah and Barack singing praises to the Lord, recounting the events, describing the Lord's power. And how it was he who won the battle, this divine warrior motif that it's God, and the hosts is called the Lord of hosts. And we

sometimes think, yeah, that's all the angels sitting around him. That can be in some cases, but hosts is also a very common military term in the Old Testament or the Hebrew Bible. The hosts came out and numbered to fight. As we go through here, as I mentioned, this divine warrior, it's God who's fighting, it's God who's ultimately responsible for delivering Israel as it's being portrayed here. And there are a few little differences between what's in chapter 4 and what's in chapter 5. I think come follow me only included chapter 4, but if you want to read the poetry and I always say, if you're reading biblical poetry, it's much more enjoyable and I think

it's more educational to read it out loud and to read it slowly as poetry. Here's the narration. Chapter 4 verse 1. Israelites did evil in the sight of the Lord, after Ehud had died, the Lord sold them into the hand of Yabeen, the king of Canaan, he's the king in Hutsor, which is a major Canaanite city, a little bit north of the Sea of Galilee, so in the upper Galilee, as we call it. His general is Cicero. They're oppressing the Israelites up in the north anyway. Verse 3, children of Israel cry unto the Lord. And he has Cicero, this Canaanite general, has 900 chariots, 20 years as oppressed the children of Israel. And now in verse 4, we're introduced to Debra, a prophetess. We've heard Miriam described as a prophetess, Deborah here, later on in the book of Nia Maya,

Nadia, a woman we don't know much about, is described as a prophetess. Hilda, and second kings, is called a prophetess. Isaiah's wife is called a prophetess. And for Latter-day Saints, that often raises a question, well, they don't have Melchistic priesthood, how can they be a prophetess? I mean, I would take it at face value, right, that these women were blessed with gifts of the Spirit and calling somehow, calling from the Lord to represent him and speak for him and serve his people. However, that worked formally, institutionally, perhaps different than

how we're used to using thinking of a prophet nowadays, but definitely had a role to play at different times in Israelite history. Chapter 4, verse 4, Debra the prophetus, we get her husband's name, she judged Israel at this time. Again, I'm thinking this is part of Israel for a particular period. Maybe there are other people already judging in other areas as well. She sits under a tree, a palm tree, and it became known as the palm tree of Deborah, because that's where she would sit regularly between Rama and Bethel and Ephraim, the territory of Ephraim, and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment, to make decisions. And so I mentioned earlier, this is the only time in the book of Judges where we actually have a reference to a judge judging or deciding or arbitrating, dealing with cases that were brought to her.

Maybe this happened a lot, and we just don't hear about it, but that's always the question. They sound more like military leaders in most of the book. The depiction primarily has a military focus in the book of judges. And this is what I find interesting in verse six. She sent and called Barack, who's an Israelite military leader and says,

hasn't the Lord God of Israel commanded you essentially saying go down to Mount Tabore, get thousands of men from Nathalie and Zebulon, these tribes up in the Galilee region. I, verse seven, I will draw unto you. So this is I the Lord, right? Hasn't God said I will draw a cicero to you and I God, verse seven, will deliver him into your hand. So she's saying, the Lord has spoken already, probably through her. We don't,

we don't hear about anybody else. And she's saying, how come you're not doing this? Get with the program, assemble the troops, the hosts from these tribes, and get to Mount Abor, which is in the Jezreel or in the troops, the hosts from these tribes, and get to Mount Abor, which is in the Jezreel or in the edge of the Jezreel Valley, again, where the Canaanites are controlling. As many people have said, chariots and antiquity were kind of like tanks and modern warfare, right? These are powerful things. And if you're rolling your horses, pulling your chariot through a group of infantry people,

they're going to get run over, they're going to get run over, they're going to get hurt. It says 900 chariots. This is a pretty mighty military contingent that Sissera has. How does Iraq respond to what Debra says? If you go with me, verse 8, then I'll go. Otherwise, I'm not going. I'm not going to lead out here because this looks hopeless. And if you, Deborah, go with me, Barack, then I have a sense that the Lord will be with us. And he'll do what he says. You're saying he will do. And so she said, okay, I'll go. But what does she say? Verse seven, I'll go, but you better know right now, it won't be the victory. Won't be for your honor, for

the Lord will sell Cicero into the hand of a woman. Now, you might think at this point that Deborah is going to be the one who's the woman, right, who's kind of cheered on as the for the victory, but we read as we read through the chapter, we find out that there's another woman involved as well. The story unfolds, they go out, they meet in the valley, they fight. Verse 13, Siserah gathered all his chariots, the nine-hunter chariots, they're fighting in the valley. Verse 14, Deborah says to Barak, right, again, her is a military leader, get up, this is what the Lord said, he's going to do. The Lord has delivered Siserah into your hands. So again, this is attributed to divine intervention here. It's not the Lord gone out before you. Verse

15, so the Lord discomforted. And if you don't know that word, there's a note that explains that's old English for put into a panic, right? So he caused a panic and the canonite forces are fleeing and sisterhood hops off his chariot to run away to save his own life. And then 18, the next verse 18 and the next few verses are this fairly well known account where he runs to a tent. It's heber and yael heber is out getting fast food or something and y'all is home and cisterus says listen I need a place to hide and Put me in here and if anybody comes tell them I'm not here He's exhausted from hours or a day of fighting so verse 19. She opens up a bottle of milk

Again, this is probably an animal skin of goat milk or something. I says here have some milk Maybe it'll help you get even a little drowsier probably an animal skin of goat milk or something. I says, here have some milk. Maybe it'll help you get even a little drowsier. He lays down, he gets covered up. And then in verse 21, Yael, is her name. Heepers wife took a nail of a tent. So she takes a tent pig and a hammer or a club as some people render it in her hand and went to him

while he's laying asleep in the back of the tent and drove the nail right through his head and nailed him to the ground. He was asleep and he never woke up, right? He was dead. Baroque pursued Cicero. Yeah, El comes out to say, hey, I've already taken care of this. And this is the woman who's going to get the glory for killing the Canaanite general. So, verse 23, God subdued on that day, Yabeen, the king of Canaan, Sissaro, as the general, before the children of the Lord. And then we go into the poetic song in chapter five that kind of re narrates in its own poetic way, celebrates the victory.

So you might say, what can I get out of that narration in chapter four? What lessons could I learn? The Lord says, I'm going to help you if you go out and do your part. Debra encourages Barak, and they go out and do their part. And the Lord comes through. I mean, there's this is kind of an underlying theme, but it's worth highlighting over and over. The Lord's going to follow through on what he says, if we're willing to participate with him. And you might think I'm trying to make something nice out of a story that doesn't have anything nice, but that seems to be the principle that the Lord brings about his purposes and will deliver you if you're willing to work with him. And it may take

time and there may be violence or challenges or hardships along the way. Judges is going to tell us the Lord always comes through. Yeah and then there's also this idea from Baroque in verse 8. If that will go with me then I will go meaning I know you're inspired of God, I go where you go. I'm feeling concerned and I need help and support and you're the person who can provide that to represent that to me, which is not unlike when we get into chapter 6 with Gideon. He needs reassurance multiple times. He's depicted in chapter 6 and 7 as quite fearful. That changes in chapter 8 and he seems to have overcome that with God's help, but he's a little more than once needs a little extra help and reassurance

along the way. And that's not such a bad lesson either, that if we feel the need for help and reassurance, it's okay to say that. It's okay to be honest and ask for that. I like that, Dana. So all of five is a song. Dana, could you sing that for us just in Hebrew? You don't want me to sing. Thank you anyway for the offer. When you get to chapter 5 verse 31, it's the last verse in the chapter that all your enemies perish, O Lord, let them love him, be as the sun when he goes forth in his might. It kind of flips the language, and we think that him now is the Lord, right? And the land had rest for 40 years. Again, there's that that narrative framework tacked on at the end to tell us some multiple of 40, right? In this case, it is 40. I bet I know what's going to come next. Oh, then why don't you reach chapter six, verse one for us,

just so we'll see if you're right. I'm guessing if there's rest in the land, then they were going to do something wrong. Let's say, look, chapter six, verse 1, and the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord delivered them into the hand of Midian seven years. So it's almost a, here we go again. It's, we think it's constructed or formulated that way, purposefully, to show that the ups and the downs of, or the going around of the cycle. So, Midian is depicted in Genesis 25 as one of the sons of Abraham and Cattura, and we know Jethro and Cappura and their family, the Midianites. We're Midianites, but the Midianites are this group of people that moving up and down out of Northwest Arabia, moving up along the eastern side of the Jordan River Valley.

Occasionally, they come into the western side of the Jordan River into the land of Israel, proper the Jezelevali and other places we hear about them. And so, yeah, Midianites shifting group of people over centuries and the Amalicites likewise and for our purposes, it's probably enough. But chapter 6 verse 5, people are like grasshoppers for multitude. They're all over the place. And the Israelites and verse 6 are crying unto the Lord, as we know the cycle. And in this case, it's one of few cases where we hear about a prophet. Chapter 6, verse 7 and 8,

the Israelites cry to the Lord for help because of the Midianites and the Lord Center prophet unto them. Thus says the Lord God of Israel. And now this is going to be presented in first person again, the prophet speaking by divine investiture as if he is the Lord. The end of verse 8, I brought you up from Egypt, brought you out of the house of bondage. I delivered you from the Egyptians, brought you here and tried to drive out the people and give you the lands. Verse 10, I said unto you, I am the Lord,

I am Jehovah, your God, fear not the other gods of the people, but you didn't obey me. And there came an angel, verse 11. And now we're going to be introduced, an angel, it's a messenger, again, you decide if it's human or divine, we find out as we go along. We're introduced to Gideon's father, whose name is Joe Ash. They're living in

territory of Manasseh. It sounds eventually like this is a divine angel or divine messenger and angel in the sense that we think. But here's the verse that you started this video cast with Hank, and the angel of the Lord appeared 612 unto Gideon and said, the Lord is with you. You are a mighty man of valor. Gideon said to him, oh my Lord, this is Lord not all in cap. So it's oh my Lord, he's talking to this divine messenger. If Jehovah is with us,

then why are we having all these problems? So you're saying the Lord is with us, but I'm not seeing it exactly. So this is an interesting little conversation that he has with the angel. Then the Lord brings us up out of Egypt, but now the Lord has forsaken us and delivered us into the hand of the Midianites. You can decide whether Gideon's worldview is out of whack or this is more rhetorical like saying, yeah, well, if he's really with us, we sure have in a lot of hardships with these Midianites. Verse 14, and now it says, the Lord looked on him and said, and there's a challenge here. Is this really the Lord talking to him, or is it the angel speaking

as the Lord? And it just says, the Lord is talking to him. It goes back and forth a little here. But Jehovah says to him, go in this, I might, and now shall save Israel. This is a call, so to speak, right? He'll save Israel from the beginning. I'd have an eye sent you. And he said, verse 15, Oh, my Lord, sounds like he's talking to the angel again, where with or how am I going to save Israel? I'm from this poor tribe, from a poor family. I'm the least in my father's house. Verse 16, the Lord Jehovah says, surely I will be with you. That is meant to be very encouraging to him. Yeah. It's a lot of people who get calls from the Lord to do hard things, right? The promise, surely I will be with you.

You shall smite the Midianites as one man. And he said, if now I have found grace, show me a sign. Now, this isn't the fleece, that's not till chapter seven. But he's already saying, I'm a little anxious about this. I'm a little, maybe a little doubtful, fearful, need a little reassurance. So he's gonna make a meal, if you will, puts it on the rock, angel goes up in the fire.

And he thinks, whoa, verse 22, when Gideon perceived, this was really a divine angel of the Lord. He said, Alas, O Lord God, for because I have seen an angel of the Lord face to face, and there's this tradition throughout a number of biblical texts that the sea, God, or an angel was meant, you might die. You're going to hear this again with Sampson's parents as well in a few chapters. Verse 22, Alas, O Lord God. Lord is not all in caps, but what is? God is. It's the word God is all in caps.

And this happens actually several times in judges and dozens of times throughout the Old Testament. And that's your clue that in this case, we said that the Lord, all in caps, is a substitute title, right? The Hebrew word that's pronounced is, I don't, I don't I, so that you don't say Yahweh, right? So Lord and caps tells me it's the divine name, but the practice became, I'm going to say the Lord is a title for God instead of the divine name itself. Well, here we've got a last, oh, Adonai, Yahweh. So rather than the translators, and the same in modern translations as well, rather than saying, O Lord, Lord, all in caps, they've put God in place of the divine name Yahweh and capitalized it. So you'll know

that is the divine name. It's Adonai Yahweh, O Lord Yahweh, but the translators have put O Lord God so that they don't have to use the usual substitution which is to put Lord all in caps. It's because it would say O Lord Lord. O Lord Lord. One in all in caps one not then that would look weird to people and so again There are all kinds of challenges and translating an ancient text for modern readers, right? And it's just a kind of a fun example an easy place to see this also as an Amos 37 a verse that letter day saints like a lot It's the same situation God is all in caps Right, surely the Lord God will do nothing. God is all in caps.

It's the same Hebrew. It's Adonai Yahweh. Either way, Gideon is saying to the Lord, wow, I hadn't quite expected that. I've seen an angel and maybe my life's in danger. I just wanted a little bit of a sign. Verse 24, Gideon built an altar to the Lord, to Yahweh, Jehovah. And called it Jehovah Shalom.

And it's still there if you happen to be right? And called it Jehovah Shalom. And it's still there, if you happen to be in that day. So Jehovah Shalom, one of the few times the word Jehovah is spelled out in English in the Old Testament. And Shalom, most people will know, is the Hebrew word for peace, that connects back to verse 23, which we just skipped over.

The Lord said unto him, peace be unto you. Don't fear, you're not going to die. So he builds an altar and names the altar. Jehovah is peace because he's promised me peace or well-being, right? It's another way to render Shalom. Anyway, he's given a charge. He is told to go throw down the altar of Baal, which his father has. This is the end of verse 25, and cut down the grove that is by it, this tree or this symbolic representation of a tree that's meant to represent Ashera. So, you've got an altar to Baal and a representation of Ashera, and he's supposed to go cut these

down, and he's a little nervous about this, so he gets ten of his friends and they go out at night and they knock down the altar, they cut down the ashara. And then the people get up in the morning in the town and say, hey, what happens? You know, who's coming and messed up our altar and wrecked the ashara, verse 29. You know, who has done this? And word gets out, obviously, that it's Gideon. And so they say to his father in verse 30, bring him out, we're going to kill him. And his father, fortunately, stands up for him. Verse 31 and Joe, ash the father of Gideon, says to all those who sit around him,

will you plead for, oh, can't, can't he take care of himself? If somebody comes and rex's altar, can't, but I'll do something about this, you know, who's appointed you to come and act for him, middle of that verse 31, let him plead for himself or contend for himself because somebody cast down his altar. Verse 32, therefore on that day they called him, Gideon, Yeruba, L, because saying let Baal plead against him. So Yeruba, L, the literary explanation is let Baal plead, right? So as we read along, we've got Gideon and Yeruba, two different names for the same person. That's the origin of the name, Yeruba, as is presented to us. Verse 34, the Spirit of the Lord came upon Gideon. There's our sign

that the Lord's going to be with him to magnify him. He calls people from Asher's Emulane in Naftali in verse 35, as well as Manasseh. So there are four tribes, but there are 12 tribes. Again, this seems to be a regional activity, not everybody together. And they're ready to fight, but he's still not quite sure he can do this. So verse 36, Gideon says, if you will save Israel by my hand, give me a sign. Verse 37, I'll put the fleece out, the sheepskin, the wool fleece out on the floor. And the filamourning, there's due on the fleece, but the ground is dry. Then I'll know you really want me to do this and you'll help me do it, Lord. So what happens? Does it? Verse 39, Gideon said to it, Lord. So what happens? Does it?

Verse 39, Gideon said to God, let, don't be angry, right? Don't let your anger be hot against me. I will speak unto you this once. I mean, one more time. One more time, right? Let me prove. And so here's Gideon saying, let me prove you.

This once with the fleece, let it now be dry only on the fleece, but all the ground be due. So we repeat the sign with the fleece, let it now be dry only on the fleece, but all the ground be due. So we repeat the sign with the twist. And God did so, verse 40, that night, for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was due on the ground. So Gideon now feels like, okay, the Lord showed me, he's going to be with me. Let's go.

And they gather to the spring of herode, which is in the edge of the Jezehryl Valley, and this is the setup, right? And you know the setup in chapter 7. This is an important chapter. Gideon ends up assembling thousands of men to fight against the Midianites, and what's the Lord say to him? Way too many people. I mean, that's a surprise, right? If you want all the guys you could get, I wouldn't think, right? Usually you want to outnumber the enemy, yeah. So the Lord says way too many people, and the question question is why does the Lord tell them to get rid of some of the fighters fighting men? People won't believe they'll think it was them and not the Lord. Right? Exactly. He said, I don't want this to look like you did it yourselves. I want people to

appreciate that I, the Lord delivered Israel, right, with you, but I'm the power behind this. And so you can read that. And there's the, there's the, the, the means he devices and chapter five and following, right? Did they put their heads down into the water to drink? Did they lift it up into their hands to lap it out of their hands? And they separate 300 out of that in the verse six and verse seven, the Lord says to Gideon, buy the 300 men that lap, I will save you. Right. So again, this is all presented as if it's the Lord who's doing the ultimate delivering is the ultimate power. I'm going to save you from the Midianites. And so Gideon still is a little nervous. And so that night, he's told to go down to the camp,

but he said, if you're to the midnight camp, but if you're really worried, take your buddy with you. Verse 10, if you're here to go down, take Furah, you're servant with you. And so he does. And the two of them sneak into the midnight camp and over here, these two midnight's talking, oh, I had a dream.

Verse 13, when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told the dream to his fellow. And said, behold, I had a dream, verse 13, when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told the dream to his fellow and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream. This is standard Hebrew grammar, right? We hear it in the Book of Mormon as well. The Kaka barley tumbled into the host of Midian and came into the tent and knocked down the tents. And his fellow says, Verse 14, here's the interpretation. This is nothing except it's the sort of Gideon, the son of Joe Asha, a man of Israel, and God is going to help him deliver the Israelites from the Midianites. So Gideon goes back and, okay, this is like the fourth time he's had a sign of some sort that God is going to be with him, right? So he gets everybody, has men together, the 300, they divide into three groups,

and you know the story. They have trumpets, it says trumpet, it's the Hebrew word is shofar. This is the ram horn that they've turned into a horn to blow in one hand and they have a clay picture picture with a torch in it in the other hand. And what's interesting here is they don't have any weapons. If you've got both hands occupied, you don't have your sword, you don't have your arrows, you don't have your dagger. You've got the trumpet, the shofar, and you've got the picture, as it says, the jar with the torch in it, the light. And that's it. Who's going to do the fighting? Well, it's God who's going to do the fighting as we read the story. So he says, I'm going to blow the trumpet and and break the jar and it'll be light. And you do the same thing all at the same time. And we're all gonna shout the end of verse 14,

the sword of and sword of his italics because that's not in the Hebrew text here. It's Foyahue, Jehovah, and Gideon. And then we get down to the end of verse 20 where they actually do this and they all cry out the sword of the Lord and of Gideon. Well Gideon apparently doesn't have a sword, but the point is it's the Lord who's got the weaponry, the power, and all the hosts of the Midianites are afraid. They think

they're way more than 300 Israelites, and they take off. And Gideon and his men follow them and kill them along the way. And he's victorious is the point of this, or God helps him to be victorious, and they to be victorious them. Well, I liked what you kept saying. You said he just, he needs reassurance, and the Lord gives him reassurance. He is someone so far that his faith has a short shelf life, right?

That he has these reassurances, he feels excited, and then it kind of wanes quickly, I guess. That doesn't seem to be a bad thing. Yeah, yeah, it may wane. It may just for him, it wasn't sufficient to, you know, to keep going. I can remember going way back when I was in love with the woman who became my wife, and I became her husband. I thought, I said, Lord, I really love Jane,

but is this a good thing? Is this what you want? Is this going to be productive for her and for me? It was a good thing. And I got a good feeling about it. A week or two later, I'm in the temple and saying, I know I've asked this before, Lord, but would you bless us in this relationship? Is this a good thing? I can't tell you how many weeks. I must have offered that same prayer. And the answer was always yes, but I just wanted a little more assurance. I guess I was nervous, fairly young. I guess I'm not alone in having had some experience

similar to that where people said, Lord, let me ask you one more time. What do you think about this? Are you OK with this? Or yeah, so yeah, I get that. I get that. Other lessons, the Lord is merciful and willing to work with him.

He's been chosen. So the Lord doesn't just throw him out the door. He hasn't done anything completely haywire, way off the rails. He's not out in the weeds somewhere. He's trying to do what the Lord's asked him to do, but needs that extra insurance, that extra strength. And the Lord's willing to work with him. I think that's a great lesson. I liked chapter 6 where he says, who am I? I'm a nobody,

but the Lord sees a mighty man of valor. That's often how you know, you might see yourself, who am I? I'm a nobody. And Lord said, oh, you just watch. I can make more of you than you can. Of yourself. Yeah. And we hear we have other examples of that in scripture as well. We've already read Moses, but we'll see others as well. I like the part we just read in chapter seven. Ultimately, it's the Lord who's going to fight our battles and help us to be

successful in our mortal life back in the 70s, maybe Elder Hanks gave a talk called the sort of the Lord of end of Gideon and use this chapter of but this sense that it's the sort of the Lord and of Gideon. Well, who's doing who's the major power here? It's the Lord and if we we bind ourselves to the Lord through covenant and if we remain in that covenant relationship and covenants are all about relationships the way we're talking here in the Bible, you're in the relationship with Jehovah alone or you're bringing other Gods into the relationship and messing up that primary relationship. But here it's In a relationship with the Lord. He's got the power to deliver us. I mean, I have that trust that the Lord will overcome everything Eventually the passage in Isaiah that gets picked up in Revelation about dry every tear from our eyes. I accept that. So I trust that the Lord can deliver me, even

though we have challenges and problems and accidents and hardships and heart breaks and all kinds of things along the way. So if I'm looking for applications that those are two that I need some reassurance and I trust that God will ultimately deliver all of the faithful children of his here on the earth. Just in the manual, it makes a little comment about looking at judges six through eight, it says, to receive the Lord's miracles in our lives, we must trust in His ways, even when His ways seem unusual. All of us have gone through something where we've looked back and went, whoa, oh, I was really being helped or guided back then And I didn't realize it. That's a faith-building pattern has been for me to look back and go, wow

I was being helped back then. I thought it should have come out like this, but it turned out being better We've already mentioned this passage earlier, but let me focus as we drive by here chapter 822-23 The drive-by scripture study. Yeah, sadly, the man of Israel said unto Gideon, rule thou over us. You've led us victory. We're successful. You're the man. You rule over us and we'll set up a dynasty, your son and your son's sons, because of what you've been able to accomplish. And he says in verse 23, I will not rule over you. Neither shall my son rule over you. The Lord, this is Jehovah, shall rule over you. Yidian says, this is not the time to start a monarchy. The Lord is still our king and we're going to

keep this religious slash family-based kingdom of his going. Now, it doesn't last for long. Already in the next chapter, somebody's going to try the monarchy out. But so you think, yeah, good for you. I notice that as soon as Gideon is dead, the children of Israel turned again and remembered not the Lord their God. So we're back to our cycle here at the end of eight. Yep. Correct. Yes. We get the program notes telling us the cycle continues. Chapter nine is a little bit of a detour. We hear about a fellow named a Bimolec. He's a son of Gideon, who has 70 sons, and this fellow is the son of Gideon, Draconcubine, and he decides he's got his mother from Shekum, and he's got connections. And so he decides, my dad doesn't want to be king. I'd be happy to be king. And here's a warning as well.

This wasn't part of the reading, but whenever somebody wants to be king, you have to step back and wonder. So he gets some of the Shekhaites to help him and proclaim him king. He thinks he kills all of his step brothers, the 70 sons, or at least 69 of the sons of Gideon. But one gets away. His name is Jatham, and he runs up on the mountain by Shekum, this is verse 7, chapter 9 verse 7. And shouts out this parable, an anti-monarchy message,

and it's saying, if you make this guy a king, it's going to come back to bite you. And it does, in the story, the Shekamites have problems because of this, and eventually a Bimolec at the end of chapter 9 is in military action, and a woman on a tower throws down a part of a millstone, and it breaks his skull, and he dies. And here's sad to say, but we're living in a patriarchal society that looks at women sort of a second class in many contexts. And so here at the end of verse 54, a Bimilek who's just been at his skull bashed in says to his armor bearer, take your sword out and kill me. So it won't be said that a woman slum me. I don't want to die at the hand of a woman. Now, Cicera didn't have a chance to say that back to the end of chapter four when when Yael killed him. He got taken through the temple. Chapter 10 and 11 were not part of the suggested reading and come follow me.

Chapter 11 has a story that I love because it's a problematic account that's related here. When I say love, it's not because it's nice and warm and fuzzy by any means. But it's thought provoking, I think. And I often spend time with students on this. It's the story of Jeb the Gileadite, Gilead is the region east of the Jordan River Valley. He's the son of a harlot, we hear in chapter 11 verse one, so already we're supposed to think his social status is lesser and he's not treated well by his family, but oh, there's oppression and everybody knows

Jeb is a really talented guy in battle, so let's go get Jeopardh to help deliver us from the Ammonites, verse 30, and Jeopardh the vow to vow under the Lord, under Jehovah, and said, if you will without fail, right? If you will certainly deliver the children of Ammon into my hands when I go out to fight them, and again with with other help, then it shall be that whatsoever, some translation, forendrant, whosoever, comes forth from the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from fighting the eminits. Surely that shall be the lords and I will offer it up as a burnt offering, and this is a fairly well-known passage. So he vows this vow, whatever comes out

of my house first, I give it to the Lord as a burnt offering. And the Hebrew word really is Ola. It's the word that's used for burnt offering throughout Genesis, throughout Exodus, throughout the rest of the Bible. There's no question of what he's talking about. So he goes off and he fights for 32 and following

and everything's grand. We don't hear much about the fighting, but he's successful in subduing the Ammonites. Verse 34, Jeb the came to MISPA unto his house. This is not the MISPA north of Jerusalem as another MISPA over east of the Jordan River. Under his house and behold, his daughter came out to meet him with Timberl's and dancing and singing. He's all excited. Dad has come home. He's in one piece. He's healthy. He's successful. She's celebrating. And his response, verse 35, rents his clothes and distress and says, I'll ask my daughter, you have brought me very low. You are the one who

troubles me. I open my mouth under the Lord. And I can't go back. Our standard explanation is that these folks were living in houses that had little court yards and open areas into the house. They're called pillar houses, three or four rooms, a couple of rooms, parallel and one in the back. The chickens and goats and sheep would be wandering in and out of the house. And we typically say, oh, he's assuming that whatever animal comes out, I'm going to offer to the Lord. I don't care if it's the biggest or the best or what. But in this case, it's his daughter.

And so she says verse 36, my father, if you've opened your mouth to the Lord, due to me, what you've promised him, but do me this little favor, let me have two months to go out on the hills and with my friends and hang out and say, gee, I'm never going to be married. I'm never going to have children. And that's what happens. Verse 39, at the end of two months, she returned to her father who did to her according to the vow which she

had vowed. Now, it doesn't say he actually killed her and burned her body as a sacrificial offering, but that's the intent of the passage. Boy, that makes us squeamish. And then so we some size says, well, maybe he really didn't do it. It just says he did it. I think the authors are expecting you'll believe that this is what he did. And so the question I always ask my students is, is did he do the right thing? Should he have kept his vow to the Lord? His daughter certainly supports him in doing that, and she's going to die. So which is more important? Taking a human life as an offering or keeping your promise to God.

And a God who doesn't want human sacrifice. Let's go back to Deuteronomy 23 for one minute. Be more careful, Dana. Well, that's a lesson. Yeah, careful what you vow for sure. And if you're going to enter into a sacred covenant or make a vow, make sure you know what you're doing without a doubt. But look at there are a couple of passages we could read. We'll only read this one. Deuteronomy 23 verses 21 through 23. John, if you have that, you want to read that please. When thou shalt vow a vow into the Lord thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it. For the Lord thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it. For the Lord thy God will surely require it of thee,

and it would be sin in thee. But if thou shalt forbear to vow, it shall be no sin in thee. That which is gone out of thy lips, thou shalt keep and perform, even her free will offering. According as thou hast vowed unto the Lord thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth. But there's a context for that passage as well. You could also read, we won't look it up,

but Ecclesiastes chapter 5 versus I think it's 2 through 5. Ecclesiastes probably doesn't have quite the same authority as Deuteronomy does, but it says essentially the same thing. So my point is, in the biblical tradition, Deuteronomy judges 11, Ecclesiastes 5, there's a sense that if you make a vow, you better do it. So I'm still back to the question, did he do the right thing? Well, in their world, he feels bound by that. Now, I am going to say, I don't think he did the right thing. Yeah. But in his culture, in his religious world, that was the expectation and even his daughter, as I said, is supportive of that. Lessons to be learned clearly, be careful what you've out. In this case, we often say you should have been more specific.

Whatever animal comes out. Not whatever, whoever comes out from my door. Secondly, when we get to chapter 20, 21 at the end of judges, if we get that far, it wasn't part of the the reading and come follow me. The Benjaminites, something horrible happens in Gibbia, a town in Benjamin. It ends up provoking a war. The only time we hear about all the tribes together, the 11 tribes get together and almost wipe out Benjamin and They have vowed a vow that they're not ever going to give their daughters to the Benjaminites So they have to concoct a couple of different ways to

Help keep the surviving Benjaminite men alive and have Spouses for them so they can marry and reconstitute the tribe of Benjamin. And so they say, on the one hand, we've made this vow, we can't break the vow we've made again, reflecting this mentality. But we're going to find another way around it. And so I often wonder if it worked for them at the end of Judges, why couldn't it work for Jeff in chapter 11 in the middle of the book of Judges, find a way around this. You know what I meant, Lord? Here's my best effort. You know what I meant?

And it wasn't that. You have freely, instead of my daughter, it's thought provoking, but it's worth considering the significance of the vows we make. And when we make a promise, are we that committed to doing what we have promised and following through, especially if we're talking promises or vows that we've made to the Lord. Absolutely. Yeah, that is a story I've never even heard. Hank, I've heard you joke about you don't like cats, your wife loves

cats, so you compromised and now you have two cats, right? Yeah. Maybe that's what he meant. Whatever comes forth out of the doors of my house to meet me, let it be whiskers, let it be whiskers, right? Yeah, please, please, please. That's it. That's it. But does he just fundamentally misunderstand the Lord's character?

I mean, if he would say the Lord wouldn't want me to do this, I know him. I think it's an analogous situation in Genesis 19. And when we get later to Judges 19 and 20, we're at hospitality, which is a great principle in their world, premier principle, that if somebody's out on the street and needs a place to say,

you bring them into your house, you feed them, you put them up overnight, whatever. But in Genesis 19, and at the end of Judges, hospitality goes amok. It means it goes crazy, where they're willing to do anything to support the principle of hospitality, even when it's the abuse of women. I see this as kind of the same, an example of kind of the same thing where yeah, vowing a vow, you never break your vow, you keep it no matter what. But in this case, there had to be another way around this. Don't follow through it and commit what I consider to have been a greater sin by killing his daughter. Strength becomes a weakness when you take it too far. Let's get to Samson. 13 through 16 is about Samson. And interestingly, chapter 13 really isn't what's about Samson at all. It's about his parents and the divine interaction that

relates to promises about his birth. It's worth reading that carefully. Again, we're talking in this case about Danites. but if we look at chapter 13 verse 1, Jonah the Lord did evil, we're back to the cycle. Here's the formula. Again, in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord delivered them into the hand of the Philistines 40 years. So the Philistines are non-Semitic people living in the southeast coast of the Mediterranean Sea. They've been in the area probably only about a hundred years or less by this time. Nonetheless, they're moving from the coast up into the valleys. The Israelites are trying to move into the valleys down towards the coast because the land is so nice. And the Philistines are bothering the Danites who get this little segment of territory

off to the side of Judah. An angel of Lord, verse three. And again, it's the Hebrews messenger. You have to wait and find out, is he a divine messenger or a human messenger? But comes and finds this woman who turns out to be the mother of Samson and said, you're barren, but you're going to bear. You shall conceive and bear a son, verse four. Now, here's the catch. Beware. Don't you drink any wine or strong drink or eat anything unclean. This is unclean according to the mosaic law, right? What's richially accepted or richially not accepted. And low, verse five, you will conceive, no razor shall come upon his head for the child shall be a Nazarete from birth or from the womb. And he will begin, and here's the qualifier, right? He will begin to deliver Israel from the hand of the Philistines.

Now, Samson doesn't succeed in accomplishing that. Saul doesn't succeed in accomplishing that. He is an ongoing process, but he's gonna be part of that. And so she tells her husband, hey, I had this experience, this man of God, this messenger of God came and kind of looked angelic, like divine, and he gave me this promise that we're going to have a baby and he's supposed to be a Nazarete from the womb. When

he comes out, he's considered a Nazarete. So we could stop and say, what's a Nazarete? You may recall back in number six. We talked about this just a little bit, but I would love for you just it was a way for non-leavites to commit themselves to the Lord. Is that right? Yeah. In number six, we've got as part of the mosaic instructions that the Lord says, if people want to put themselves in an extra sacred relationship with me for a certain time, and it's depicted there as relatively temporary, later day saints like to use the analogy of full-time missions,

I'm going to commit myself full-time in the Lord for a couple of years, and when I'm done, then I go back to regular life. There's sacrificial offerings that are supposed to conclude the Nazarete vow when you step out of that extra dedicated or set apart status of devotion to the Lord. It doesn't mean you're more or less devoted, but you're putting yourself in a certain status and you agree not to do certain things, right? So

the three things that are mentioned in number six are you won't cut your hair, you won't drink wine or strong drink or eat any of the grapevine products, and you won't touch dead people, which would render you richly unclean. Those are the three that are mentioned there. Here we've got an unusual situation where Samson's mother is told that he will, Samson was a baby in through his whole life, whether he wants to or not, is going to be a Nazarite and expect it to be living by these restrictions. And in the accounts that follow, it's only the hair that really is the restriction that has the most importance attached to it.

He touches the dead lion, he drinks wine, nothing seems to happen. But in his case, it's the hair that's the secret of his strength that's that connection to the Nazarite vow. Evers 24, the woman has a son. They call his name Samson. The spirit of Lord began to move

upon him. And we're already from Samson baby to Samson adult. And chapter 14, he's gone down to Timnoth and sees one of the Philistine women and says, yeah, I want to marry her. And true to his culture, he goes back to his parents and says, arrange this marriage for me. I don't know much about her, but she's good looking and oh, she's a Philistine. So what? I should be married and Israelite in my culture that would be expected. This is parents say to him, aren't there nice Israelite girls among the Danites that you could marry? No, I want her. And so they make the arrangement and the story goes on.

But this is his wife, he goes off. This is the story of the wedding feast that lasts for a week and he tells a riddle and says, you know, if you can't guess my riddle, you'll give me 30 outfits. And if you guess my riddle, I'll give you 30 outfits of clothing and the Philistines are saying,

yeah, we don't want to be in debt to this guy, but we can't figure out the riddle he's given. Kills a lion and he goes back and sees it later and the carcass of the lion is this beehive a swarm of bees and honey and it's sweet and that becomes the basis for this riddle that he tells at the feast beginning in chapter 14 verses 10 and following when they can't figure it out. So they press on his Philistine wife to get Samson to tell her the answer to the riddle so that she can tell them so that he'll lose the wager instead of them losing the wager. And on the seventh day, it's announced that they figured it out. What is the end of verse 18? What is sweeter than honey and what is stronger than a lion? He's

upset. Dear Lord, again, it's attributed to divine action. The spirit of the Lord comes upon him, and he goes down to Ashkelon, one of the Philistine, major Philistine cities. Kills 30 people, takes their outfits and brings them back and says, here, paying the wager. Well, of course, they're upset. They're upset because 30 Philistines have died in the process. He leaves there and goes back to his home for a while. 30 Philistines have died in the process. He leaves there and goes back to his home for a while. His father-in-law gives his wife to a Philistine guy. He comes back later and finds out he's upset. This is all, you know, hydrama here. And you're supposed to be thinking, what's with this guy? How did he get to be a judge and have the spirit of the Lord come upon him? Or in chapter 15,

and he catches 300 foxes and took, it says firebrands, it's torches, right? So ties two foxes together, their tails together with a torch in the middle. So you got 150 pair of foxes running around with torches through all of the fields and they burn the corn. As it says in verse 5, I hope by now, after Joseph and Egypt, everybody knows corn and king James means grain. It's not corn on the cob like we think of it. So wheat and barley were the two most common grains in the ancient New Eastern world and the biblical world. And so it burns down their stuff. And oh, by the way, it burns some of the olive trees and the vineyards. So now the Philistines are upset because of what

Samson's done. He was upset because of how he was treated. Right. This is this round and round. So he goes to a place and this is worth commenting just briefly over in Judah. And verse nine, the Philistines went up and pitched in Judah and spread themselves in Lehigh. The Hebrew word is lehi. It means job on. It's the name of the place. And we find out why it's called that as we go along. But the men of Judah say to Samson, listen, we don't want the Philistines beating up on us because of you. So we're going to tie you up and turn you over to them.

I, we won't hurt you, but we'll give you to them. And that's what he agrees to. Verse 14, he came to Leahy, the Philistines shouted against him. The Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him. He broke the, the Flax bands with which he was bound. Verse 15, and he found a new job on of an axe. He found a lechee of an of an ass, a donkey, and put forth his hand and took it and slew a thousand of the Philistines with it. And Samson said with a job on of an axe heaps upon heaps, probably heaps of bodies, right, with a job on of an ass, have I slain a thousand men. It's like, oh, well, all in the day's labor, right? The thousand guys have lost their lives here. And I want to pause here. I always do this with students. I was coming out of a family therapist office

one time, and I happened to see this on the wall. And again, it's not a funny context, but it's a clever use of this scripture. So this is what the sign said on the wall in this therapist's office. Samson's slew 1000 Philistines with a jawbone of an axe, judges 15. Every day, thousands of relationships are destroyed with the same weapon, with a jawbone of a donkey and a relationship. Keep your jaw closed. John, I'm glad I didn't use that as yours. You're adjutant. The chapter 15 ends with his Thursday. He says, the Lord, don't let me die of thirst. I've tried to try to defeat the Philistines. So God creates a spot in the valley there and water comes out. And he names it the spring of calling out right the one who calls out for God's help.

So this is about the only time where Samson actually is depicted. We always have to say that where he calls on God for help. The rest of the time this is just Samson doing his own macho thing. And again, this picture is much different from some of the other judges, right? He doesn't call other tribes for help. He doesn't call anybody for help. He's just doing his own thing, not all that successfully in the long run. And then the rest of the 16, then, is about Delilah. It never actually says that she marries him or that he marries her. It never actually says that she is a Philistine, but we assume she is a Philistine. He loves her.

And this is the first time, and the only time was chapter 16, verse four, came to pass after all these escapades that he loved a woman in the Valley of Sork whose name was Delilah. And it's really the only time we hear about Samson loving somebody other than himself. And she, the Philistine leaders say, we're going to do this scenario again, like with his wife at the first. Find out from him how he's so strong and what we can do to defeat him. And so three times, we'll give you a lot of money if you help us out. So three times she asks and he makes up something and says, Samson, the Philistines are on you. And he hops up and breaks the bands. She keeps pressing on him after the third time. Finally, we're in chapter 16 verses 15.

How can you say, I love you. When your heart isn't with me, you've mocked me, you've lied to me these three times. Verse 16, it came to pass when she had pressed him daily with her words for who knows how long and urged him, his soul was vexed unto death. He said, what's the point of living? This is just more than I can take.

So he tells her, verse 17, all his heart explains the Nazarite vow, can't cut my hair if I do my strength is gone. She realizes that he has told her all her heart. So she rings up the Philistines as if she had a phone right and said, he's told me all this heart. I know this time this is the truth. She had a phone right and said, he's told me all this art. I know this time, this is the truth. And so they come and she helps and they cut his hair off that night and he jumps up and he's got no strength in the Philistines gouge out his eyes and take him down to Gaza where he had ripped the gates out and taken him away. And he's put in the prison house helping to push a grinding stone around to grind the

grain. His hair starts to come back. And after a while, they're having a big party at the Temple of Da-Gun, a grain god. And, oh, hey, what happened to that guy named Samson? Let's bring him in and let's make fun of him. Let's mock him. Let's see if he's as strong as it used to be. And so they tie him up to the two central pillars that are holding the upstairs up. And, you know, the story, this is chapter 16 verse 28, Samson calls out, oh Lord God, here we have him calling to Lord again. Remember I pray, just this one more time,

give me strength to avenge myself against the Philistines who've garage up my eyes. He's tied up, he exerts his strength, verse 30, and he pulls down the pillars, all the people fall down from upstairs and onto the people that are downstairs and the dead, which he slew at his death, or more than those that he slew in his lifetime. So he kills what, two or three thousand people here at the end. And that's the end of the Samson story. So we can ask the same questions, what lessons could you possibly learn out of that? Dr. and Covenant section three versus three and four. Remember remember that it is not the work of God

that is frustrated, but the work of man, people, right? For when a person may have many revelations, powers to do mighty works, yet if they boast in their own strength and set it not the councils of God and follow after the dictates of their own will and carnal desires. They must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon themselves. For me, that connects with Samson. Samson's a tragic figure. We're going to have lots of tragic figures in the Bible. But here's one, blessed from birth with strength and opportunity promises, a calling, and at least, again, the ways depicted in judges, the carnal, the worldly, the, I do my own thing.

I don't care so much about other people, especially about women, even about Israelites. Definitely, I don't care about Philistines, right? I just kill a few here, kill a thousand there, whatever. Or it's a portrayal of a sad tragic person, follows after his own will and carnal desires must fall. And he fell literally under the load of the second floor of the temple. Yeah, I was going to say, Mary well to go back to chapter 14 when his parents said, maybe you could marry in the covenant. How about that? We've seen this, but many of the lessons in the book of judges and elsewhere are negative examples.

Hopefully we're learning from negative examples that have been provided for us. I think the manual talks about strength comes from your covenant. Samson lost both his physical strength and his spiritual strength because he violated his covenant. I like to what you brought in though about section three, because that's the loss of the 116 page manuscript. And it was a mistake and it was wrong. And the Lord taught a lesson there. Here we're looking at this.

All right, what can we be taught here? That's a great footnote. I'm gonna put that at the end of this story. Otherwise you're gonna like, okay, nice story, what do I do with that? It doesn't say, and thus we see, right? We're supposed to be able to extract the moral to the story, but it takes a little time to think about it.

And different people, depending on what they bring to this story, are going to see different things, resonate with different things. But there are some life lessons to be learned. Judges finishes with saying a couple of times. In those days, there was no king. Every man did that, which was right in his own eyes. That just sounds like Samson.

Do it's right in your own eyes. Samson, that's kind of his motto in life. I'll do it, I think, is right. Yes. Yes. You know, tragically, you see the outcome of that kind of approach to life where covenant community doesn't seem to be valued, where personal commitments to covenants does not seem to be valued. I mean, you could argue, yeah, did he want to be an aserite? Does parents raise him saying,

hey, God says you're going to be an aserite. Sometimes people grow up in Latter-day St. Holmes and say, this isn't for me. I'm going to choose a different way. And they may not be. So wild and crazy as Samson turns out to be. But people, you know, choose different paths. And it And on the one hand, it's easy to knock Samson. On the other hand, I'm going to try to have a little respect for a person who chooses to go another direction for whatever reason they choose. I'm glad that we believe in a spirit world. And I hope he has had plenty of time to reflect and repent and to come around, according to as we understand things. Fortunately, that's not the end

of life. There's very little humility. If you maybe put Samson next to Gideon, Gideon who needs reassurance, Samson seems to need zero reassurance. He just runs his own show. So there's an important lesson there. As we mentioned, that's the end of the judge's story. Yeah, then you said there was appendix, right? Chapter seven. Yeah, that's what what it typically gets called chapter 17 and 18, narrate a story and then 19, 2021 narrate another story. And that's the end, but very much in this case, religious perversion we would say. So you can read about all of that. And along the way, multiple times, as you've already noted,

and including the very last verse of the Book of Judges, 21 verse 25, in those days, there was no king in Israel. Everybody did what was right in their own eyes. There's no human king, and that's the setup for the monarchy that's coming in for Samuel. But there's also not a whole lot of allegiance to the heavenly king, Jehovah, either. And so you've got these despicable accounts. I mean, just terrible accounts of what people doing terrible things, other people are designed I think as we've said before,

yeah, we need a human institution to help with our challenges, but also designed to show us that if we leave Yahweh, Jehovah, our heavenly King, look what becomes to us. And spiral. There are some scripture passages and teachings that say, you know, it's one thing, if you just don't live well,

but if you make covenants to live well and then you turn against the Lord and violate your governance, one, your life is often worse and two, your judgment is more severe because you're violating the promises, divine promises that you've made to a divine being. So bad things have happened. And again, this illustrates over and over that dynoronomistic principle that's also in the book of Mormon. If you keep the commandments of the Lord, your obedient, your faithful, you'll prosper in the land and God will help you. And if you don't, he won't.

And now that's really black and white and can be fudged all kinds of ways. But there is an underlying principle there that really has something to teach us and it shows up again and again in the scriptures. I've heard it called the doctrine of retribution. It shows up in the book Mormon a lot. I was thinking as we've been looking at these chapters about the idea of the God of the Old Testament seem seeming harsh, and I'm going, well, the people seem pretty harsh, too. He was dealing with them in the same measure of harshness. They were dealing with each other, perhaps. It is a hard book, and again, as I said, most of the lessons we learn are from negative examples. Some positive, and talking about divine justice or divine retribution, or what have you?

Could I read this quote? I found this when I was doing an article on Micah. It's just expressed nicely. It's by a fellow named Daniel Simons and writing a commentary in the book of Micah. Because there are prophecies in Micah about bad things happening in the future. And I just like the way he expressed this. I'm sure you've probably thought about this, but this is his statement. A God who is never angry would be a God

who has no compassion and no empathy for those who suffer at the hands of others. God's anger is the other side of God's love and concern, to be in relationship with a God who truly cares about people and what they do means running the risk that God may sometimes be angry. And what they do means running the risk that God may sometimes be angry. The good news is that the anger is never the last word. And when I read that, I really stopped and I said, yeah, I mean, I get angry at other people for doing bad things to my kids or my grandkids or whatever. And he doesn't use the word covenant. But he says to be in relationship with a God who cares about people, we can easily say to be in a covenant relationship with God, involving sacred promises. Understand that when I or other people break those sacred promises, they're going to be consequences.

It would be nice to say God never gets upset, he never gets angry, whatever. But the way at least scripture and prophets depict God, we have plenty of examples where this is the case that God's justice is going to come into play or the principle of justice comes into play and Even in the book of Mormon and Alma, right, we're taught that mercy can't rob justice Now Jesus provides a way to meet the demands of justice But everyone does not take advantage of that opportunity. So, a God who's never angry would be a God who doesn't have compassion or empathy for those who suffer at the hands of others. And Gold Testament has plenty of examples of stories of people who suffer at the hands of others. Before we let you go,

let me ask you a question. Here you are. You're a Bible scholar, one of the best I know. And a believing Latter-day Saint, how of those two worlds come together for you? I think our listeners are interested in, here's someone highly educated, well studied. I think our listeners would be just a little bit interested in that story. I know you come from New England, convert to the church. I was 12 on my family joined the church. I studied Hebrew Bible, ancient Newerister studies in school. I learned lots of tools, theories, approaches, how to deal with this, how to think about that, that would be part of anybody's

biblical studies program. Some people come out of that thinking, wow, I never heard of this before. I guess it's true, and I was believing the wrong thing, so I'm out of here. Some people come through and say, and hopefully this is me. I see some valuable tools here. I don't have to take the whole perspective. I had professors who

were agnostic. I had professors who were atheist. I had professors who were believing Jews. My main professor, Jeff T. Gay, would put on his Yamoka every time we open the scriptures and read out of first because that was in his faith tradition, a sign of respect for the holy word of God as he had it and accepted it. What's helpful? What's important to me? I mean, thinking about redactors, thinking about other kinds of things, right? I didn't grow up thinking about that. I learned about those kinds of things, right? I didn't grow up thinking about that. I learned about those kinds of things, perspectives that people have and putting the text together or the text isn't perfect. It's got corruptions in it. It has been transmitted. I mean, there's a whole host of different

things to think about in relation to studying any scripture text, even modern almost 200-year-old scripture texts like the Doctrine and Covenants, right? There are questions we should be asking ourselves. I guess in my personal experience, my faith is what is the most important thing. My wife and I have said this to each other, right? Our relationship with the Lord is the most important thing in our life. Your next is my spouse, and then everything else proceeds out from there. The kids, the grandkids, occupation, ward, callings, what have you. But first and foremost, it's the Lord and me and that covenant relationship that I've mentioned

now. It feels like a hundred times in this broadcast. And everything grows from that. Listen, I know people who went to graduate school and lost their faith. For me, academics, the academic approach has a lot of value, but it's not any other or. The Dockner Covenant is full of this, right? Take from the best books and study history and geography and learn languages and all these things, learn even by study and by faith. The Dockner Covenant is full of divine injunctions to see what's in the world and to have the Holy Spirit as your guide to choose what's good and helpful and productive, beneficial and to have the Holy Spirit as your guide to choose what's good and

helpful and productive, beneficial and to separate between what's good and what's not and to choose the good and to reject the rest. I've tried to have that as my course in life and grateful for the blessings that have come to me because of that. You have certainly inspired me for many years, and I'm sure have inspired many today with your depth of knowledge and your faithfulness. It's just both of them are incredibly impressive, but we loved it. We are so grateful that we've got to spend time

with Dr. Dana Pai today. Wow, what a great day. We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sornson. We love you and our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sornson. We love you and our sponsors, David and Verla Sornson. And we hope all of you. Please join us next week. Another episode of Follow Him. you