Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Luke 22; John 18 Part 2 • Dr. Daniel Belnap • June 12 - June 18

Episode Date: June 7, 2023

Dr. Daniel Belnap examines the events of the Garden of Gethsemane and the nature of sacrifice.Please rate and review the podcast.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.coFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-piano

Welcome to part two with Dr. Daniel Belnab, Luke chapter 22 and John 18. In Luke, so he doesn't divide him up the same way as Matthew does into the different discrete groups, but notice that the first instruction that he gives in this element of the tonic process is verse 40. When we get to the place, the says to it, it turns out it says, pray that you enter not into temptation. Now, one way you say that is, you can say hope that sometimes how we use that word, pray in that modern vernacular. But he means pray. I mean, you look for a sur 46. Why sleep you? Rise and pray. Less the inner temptation. Now, granted, we don't have the divisions the same way Matthew does of the group of eight and so forth. But you do have the disciples asking to pray. The closest

thing that I can find to an analogy that's like that is again, 3519, which is kind of fun. Some of the thought stuff that we've been dealing with, we've been going to events in 3519 to some degree, but it's a before and after, right? And why in 3519? Well, before Christ comes, the disciples are praying. And they have this baptism of fire in my holy ghost. And then when Christ comes, he actually has the disciples pray again. So while he goes off to pray, he has the disciples praying. I've read this a couple of ways, but it almost seems as if Christ has each of the disciples in 3519, divvy up the audience so that you got groups of 12. And if they got groups of 12, are they leading

them in prayer? So do we have 12 different groups of praying going on? Plus Christ. I don't have a great explanation as to the power of this type of communal prayer, but it's something. I wish I could give more, but it's tantalizing this idea of a communal group of prayers. Different people all praying at the same time in these different settings and these different groups. And yet that's what he seems to be asking happen in the Garden of Gisemite too. We know that he's going to pray. We know that he's going to engage with God the Father, but he wants his disciples to be engaging in this prayer too. There's something here about the nature of prayer

that I don't fully grasp, but whatever it is, it's profound. I know there's something more here. I can feel it if that makes any sense. Having never experienced a communal prayer like this before, all I can say is it's not unique in scripture. I'm seeing it elsewhere. I'm seeing it in 3519. I'm seeing at least it's implied that should be happening here. I don't know if the idea is that somehow prayer builds and if that's the case, there's a different way to think about prayer than we do. This is

why I come back to something I said earlier. I love reading in the scriptures of Christ's prayers. I love reading about his prayers because I get insight into the nature of prayer and there's something prayers. Because I get insight into the nature of prayer and there's something like I said, I haven't fully teased it out what's going on in these prayer settings like this. But it's something or else or Christ wouldn't do it. Christ wouldn't tell us disciples, spread out, grab groups, all of you start praying. He wouldn't do that. Plus there's just something. Well, there's something happening.. I'm looking at the Matthew account of the Garden of Guest Empty, and it says that the Savior began to be sorrowful and very heavy. And He says, my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death. Terry here and watch

with me. I'm going to ask you this question, both of you, when have we ever seen him like this? Something is happening here that I don't know how, exactly how to describe, even in his temptations, even in John VI when people are walking away from him, never have we seen him like this. So it's almost as if he's saying, you guys, I am so depressed. I feel like I'm going to die.

We have listeners who have been in moments, in their own personal moments, like this, where it's so overwhelming. So what is happening here in your mind that is really taking him to a place we haven't seen him before? The simplest answer, I have the faintest idea. In terms of our theology, we're at an edge now of which we really have nothing. He doesn't tell us much. Right. He doesn't tell us much about this. I wonder if part of it is because of the just the personal intimate, even traumatic, I'll use the word traumatic. We'll end up here in Dr. Hamilton's 19, which does give us, I think some insights to this. This is a trauma that we just can't comprehend. The Book of Mormon over and over has made the case that this is an act that can only be

performed by a God. And yet, it's traumatic. It is absolutely traumatic. To the sorrow element, if you look down here at verse 45, that element of sorrow, it's not just Christ who's experiencing it, or at least that's the implication. And when he rose from prayer and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow. Now, I don't know exactly what sleeping for sorrow means, but it suggests that they're sleeping because they're experiencing sorrow.

The other accounts talk about Christ being so amazed at what's about to happen. That's in the mark account. And it's Joseph Smith's translation who ultimately says it's Christ that's telling that, but the text actually talks about Peter James and John being so amazed as well. We are now at a point where we have no idea what it is that Christ went through really and can't fully grasp or comprehend what he's paying for, but it seems to have left an error of heaviness. There's a sense that this place now has become heavy, they're feeling something. It's, when I talk about this, knowing full well that we don't know what he fully experienced,

Christ is going to pay for all suffering, but he's also going to pay for all death. But what that suggests to me is that Christ pays for all entropy, all forms of entropy, any form, any type, anywhere. So death, suffering, pain, decay, he pays for all of entropy. I don't know how that would feel to pay all entropy in the universe as far as I can tell. This is so personal, so private, and so traumatic that it's created an atmosphere. There's an atmosphere of where all entropy is concentrating.

All the effects of entropy are concentrating into this spot and this individual. I don't know how you wouldn't feel it. You know how sometimes you can enter into a place and you can tell that something has happened there just by the environment of the place that's around it. It feels sober, it feels somber, maybe no one said anything, but you can feel it. You just feel it. You sense it. There's a physicality to the environment here that I think Luke and others are trying

to describe but struggling maybe how to figure out how to phrase it. It's, there's an incomprehensible level to what Christ is doing. And yet it is clearly something that is physical enough that it's disciples are experiencing aspect of it. They are sleeping through sorrow. I've wondered if they don't pay the price. They don't pay the physical price at all. But the afferfax, like the ripples, just that

price is such that their body shuts down and they go to sleep. This isn't them just going, oh, I'm sleeping. If we're reading that verse right, they're sleeping for sorrow. I don't know if they've cried themselves to sleep. I have no idea, but you can exhaust yourself through sorrow. And I think we've all experienced exhaustion by sorrow. You're just, you're exhausted. Now that tends to be through your own experience, but Christ is paying concentrated, all entropy

on him that I wouldn't be surprised if there's an element of where Peter James and John are exhausted from just the after effects of this place of sorrow. And you see that. So, we see where your buxam, but in other places like the flesh is weak guys, I know that. This suggests that there is a physical effect of the atonement that Peter James and John and the disciples are feeling.

They're not paying the price, but there's something about this event that their experience in feeling. James E. Talman said it this way, and you mentioned this earlier, he said, this was a spiritual agony of soul. Only God was capable of experiencing. No other human, however great their powers

of physical or mental endurance could have suffered so for the human organism would have succumbed. And synchophe would have produced unconsciousness and welcome oblivion. Christ needed his eternal side, you might say, to stay alive during this experience. Here we told in Luke, and this is the only place where we find in Luke, verse 44, being in an agony, he prayed more earnestly. I find that fascinating.

Being in agony, he prayed more earnestly. I find that fascinating. Being in agony, he prayed more earnestly. Are we here learning here that Christ didn't pray as earnestly at the beginning? Again, we are confronted with Christ presenting a way of praying. We're learning about prayer through Christ. And here we learned that he begins to pray more earnestly. He wasn't before, but now he is. There's, wow. were at was as it were great drops of blood falling down the ground now most of the book of scholars will look at that and go This is metaphor. We he's clearly that's strenuous and his sweat is such as if it were blood. They'll claim it as a metaphor But in Dr. Cummins 19 given to Joseph Smith in what 1829 You have Christ actually describing

it himself. So Luke, this is a narrator, third person who's telling us the story, they're maybe compiling different events and putting them together. But in Dr. Cummins' 19, the voice of this narrative is Christ himself. Verse 19. Which suffering caused myself even God to your point? This is could only be paid by a God. This is Christ talking about Himself as God in His divine role. Which suffering caused myself even God, the greatest of all to tremble because of pain. Now, to tremble because of pain,

His body is physically shaking. Right? If that, if we take that literally, and I don't know why we wouldn't, because he isn't saying anything about a metaphor, his body is physically shaking from the pain of that, and to bleed at every pore. Here Christ says, his physical bodily reaction, the physiology of this event, he bled from every pore. Every pore. How many pores make up the human skin? He is coated in a layer of blood. How traumatic of a pain is that to the skin? How sensitive is he to any type of touch after this? We talk about how much it might hurt for it to bleed from every poor. I want you to just think about what happens after this event when he gets a night of lack of

sleep, he's sleep-provide. His skin is just traumatized by forcing blood up through the pores and they're going to beat him and they're going to slap him and they're going to take a crown of thorns and they're going to put it on his head. These all hurt on their own. To be stright, his skin, his traumatized by this event, from the souls of his feet to the top of his head. He has to walk. How much does it hurt just to walk from these places? And to suffer both body and spirit. Everything up to this point in verse 18 is described in past tense.

And what I mean by that is which suffering caused that's a past tense. And following that, you get a series of infinitives, caused me to do the following, to do this, but it's all fronted by this past tense. Christ is speaking in the past tense in verse 18 up to this point. And then you get this dash. I don't know what the dash represents. I wasn't there for the revelation, but was there a bit of a pause in Christ's narration of this? I don't know, but what follows is, is a switch to a present tense. And would that I might not drink the bitter cup of drink?

Now, I imagine things, and so that's probably my problem. So this is Dan Bellum's imagination, but I can see Christ telling Joseph, narrating to him, relating to him the events of this, and which suffering caused my even God to trouble and suffering And then he's just back in that memory He's just right back into it and you can just see him not that he would space off but just go And would that I might not drink the bitter cup of drink and then he seems to change the subject after that

Yeah, then he just maybe shakes the the equivalent of a shake and just goes never the last Joseph. I think this switch to this present tense, this first person present tense reveals how traumatic this event was for Christ. If 2000 years, he still remembers it and puts himself into the present tense for it. It's traumatic. It's still traumatizing. I don't know why it wouldn't be traumat the present tense for it. It's traumatic. It's still traumatizing. I don't know why it wouldn't be traumatizing. Like anything else, I don't think he experiences

the pain over. But if you've ever touched a hot plate on a stove or been injured, you certainly remember that it hurt. And it's traumatic. I don't think we often think about the traumatic nature of it for Christ. And he says to suffer both body and spirit, and he brought up this idea that his spirit was troubled, his soul was exceedingly sore and troubled. I think this gives a small insight as to why. I know all of the Gospels carry with it, saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me. Now, that's one thing. Father, if you'd like to remove this cup from me, that's the way that Luke describes it. The way Christ says it is, and would that I might not drink

the bitter cup and drink, that's different. This suggests to me, I need to clarify that. Verse 18 suggests a concern that Christ has, a fear even, that he might not be up to the task. Wood that I might not drink the bitter cup and actually pull back. I'm afraid I might not be up to this. For me, there is solace to recognizing that on this greatest event, this extremity, the extreme ends of cosmic entropy as he's paying for that price, as God. There was a moment of, I don't know if the word's doubt, but there's certainly concern.

I'm afraid I might not be able to do this. I'm really afraid of failing. This implies Christ has a fear of failure in this moment. How many of us do? How big this must be for him to have maybe some self doubt like, can I really do this? We don't know what it is, but it must be, in fact, Elder Maxwell put it this way. He's using the Mark 14 account where it says, they began to be very sore amazed. Peter James and John and Jesus is Joseph Smith ads sore amazed. And if you look at the footnote for Mark 1433, it's

awestruck. This is what Elder Maxwell said. He said, imagine this is Jehovah, the creator of this and other worlds. Ostruck, what has he seen in his existence? Jesus knew cognitively what he must do, so he understood it in his head, Elder Maxwell says, but he had never personally known this process of an atonement before. So when the agony came in its fullness, it was so much, much worse than even he with his unique intellect, had ever imagined. How big is this process of an atonement that would fall out even, fall outside even the scope of Christ's unique intellect going back to section 19 in my mind because I as I've thought about these events Hank you mentioned the adjective heavy and we find in the scriptures

almas weighed down with sorrow We all know that gathsemini means all of press as the weight of the world came up. The weight of sin, whatever, however we describe that came upon the Savior. I don't know if you guys have ever been through a painful medical procedure or anything and how your mind gets so focused on getting through it. And I've often wondered what got the Savior through this. And I'm so grateful to today, it's my favorite section of the Dr. Mn. Covenants. I've always loved 19 to Martin Harris that you've been quoting. But if you go to verse 16, I feel like he's telling us what got him through this. for behold, I have suffered these things for all that they

might not suffer. I think it was his love for us that helped him not shrink, that they might not suffer. I have suffered these things for all because it is my duty because I was supposed to, because this was the plan, it was that they might not suffer. And I thought, wow, the power of his love for us is perhaps what helped him not to shrink as the weight of all that came upon me. Yeah, I would agree. And back to our discussion we had, I think this is a place where our faith in Christ sustained him.

I find this fascinating. And I don't have a great answer or because it's just something I've explored, but there are places where in the scriptures, Christ keeps talking about friends, about having friends and being a friend. Now, when I think about what makes a friend, do you think of your best friend? You two are close friends, right? We're friends. So what does friend do well a friend bears one another's burdens, but that's kind of the point Your best friend is someone that has born your burden, but that you also bore theirs if that makes sense Friendships a two-way street if it's all one way then it's not really a friendship

Now I say that because Christ keeps every now and then in the Scriptures and Dr. Cummins, He says, you are my friends. Peter James said, the disciples, they were my friends. And I think, but the way we describe our relationship with Christ is always one way. He's doing for us. He's constantly doing for us. And I go, that's not a friend. That can be a father.

It can be someone who I'm close to. It can be a clasiascical leader or whatever it is. But it's not a friend the way I think of my friend's friends. But is there a place where we helped him out? And I'm wondered, John, to your point, is this where we did? Is this a place where we helped him out? Isn't that what Abinadi says in Mosiah 14 to 15? He quotes Isaiah 53 and then he says, during his Atoma, he shall see his seed. Who are his seed? It's those, John, you could quote this better than me. Who are his seed? It's those who believe in the words of the prophets. Am I

saying that right, John? What I love about it is their original gotcha question to Abinadi was, what does this mean? How beautiful upon the mountains and the feet of that bring? And when he answers the question, says these are his seed. And how beautiful upon the mountains are their feet? How beautiful are the mountains who are now publishing peace? And then he speaks to the future. And those who

shall hear after published peace. It's so good how beautiful upon the mountains are their feet and I'm thinking of my my son on a mission right now and all these missionaries and how beautiful upon the mountains are their feet who are those are those are his seed and he'll see his seed. That's also great about a binaday. I started to get off track a little bit, but we've got Isaiah, but here's another prophet commenting on Isaiah and telling us, here's how he's going to see his seed,

even though he was cut off out of the land of the living. That's really good stuff. And I've wondered if in light of that, this is maybe why his exhortation to the disciples was to pray, the list you enter into temptation. Notice that there is, I'm not saying that he was tempted, but this fear that he expresses in verse 18 of section 19, this, in wood that I might not drink the bitter cup and shrink, that concern that he has that fear

that he might fail. Maybe this is the disciples, I need your help. I'm going to need your help through this. No one else can pay the price, but I need your help. I need you to pray. I need you to pray so that my faith fails not. And of course, the disciples wouldn't have been the only ones. I think there's a fulfillment that he should see as seed. For me, this is all going to culminate, of course, on the cross, where he really is alone for the first time in a way that he's never been before. He will experience what we could call spiritual death. He will be cut off from the Father. And that is the definition of spiritual death that he's used and others have used in the scriptures. In that moment of just extreme aloneness, separation, isolation, abandonment, all of this cutoffness, when he passes over,

abandonment, all of this cutoffness. When he passes over, we then get section 138 of where he peers in the midst of his seed. And they're rejoicing. From a Lannardy St. Perspective, as we go from the extremity of the loneliness on the cross, to the spirit world where he is surrounded by his friends, his family, and his seed has to be one of the most beautiful juxtapositions we have in all of scripture. And he sees his seed. That was the promise that the father outlined to him. You do this. I'll let you see your seed. You will know it. I promise. I promise. You're going to have to just get through this trial first. And when you do, you'll see your seed. I promise. I think that's just cool. Yeah, me too. There's a moment in Mark I wanted to mention. Mark says he went a little further.

What's interesting, oh, by the way, is that I think it's Matthew and Mark both have him falling on his face. It's not something you see in art very much. We usually see him praying next to a rock or something. Next to a rock or a tree, but in the actual text, it says Matthew 2639, he went a little further and fell on his face. Mark 14 says he fell on the ground as if he's out of strength. But I wanted to mention Mark 1436. Mark's the only one to mention this, and he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible into the take away this cup from me. And that word kind of rings to me because when I go to Israel and I walk around the streets of Jerusalem and it's somewhat

busy, you'll hear that word. You'll hear Abba, Abba. And it's usually a child speaking to their Papa, to Daddy. Abba, Abba, look at me. Look at this. Elder Holland said this. He said, in this most burdensome moment of all human history, with blood appearing at a rapport and an anguish cry upon his lips, Christ saw him whom he had always sought, his

father, Abba, he cried. Papa, or from the lips of a younger child, Daddy. And then Elder Holland says, this is such a personal moment. It seems almost sacrilegious or sacrilegious to cite it, to talk about it. This is a sun in unrelieved pain. So that word, Abba, has meant more to me over the years. Yeah, it's certainly possible that's, of course, the aromatic word for Father. So the Hebrew word is Av. And here's the Abba. This is the Aramaic version. And so we can look at it in two ways. One, as this personal way of saying it, nothing is diminutive, but daddy is different than father. And so that's one way is that it's denoting this real personal relationship that exists between Christ and the father. And there is

something to that. When he says, almost sacrilegious, man, my response is, it is like, right, but they put it in the scriptures, how cool is that? We talk about individuals who share their challenges or their concerns or their weaknesses. We have Christ revealing something very personal about himself here. He gave permission to whomever is writing these stories to tell this part of it.

The second way I think of father is, and now bear with me, because this is going to seem way off track. But in Abraham chapter one, verse two, here's what it says, he says, I sought for the blessings of the fathers and the right we're into to administer the same. So if you break that down, he wants the blessings

which have been that are possessed by the fathers, whoever these individuals are, he wants those blessings. And he wants the right to administer them. Now if he has the right to administer the blessings, that means he has them, the blessing of the fathers, and he can administer them, which now makes them a father, which means we can now look at a definition of a father in a different way as one who has the right to administer a blessing. That separates it out from offspring. Anybody can provide offspring, but to be a father, that requires one to have power and authority to do something about

it, to bless an individual. In this case, it's possible that he's also asking and looking at that aspect of our Heavenly Father, of God. I need someone who has the power and authority to bless me. That's what I need right now. I think it will work both ways. Hopefully, all three of us in our households are both fathers, individuals of which these are our offspring and we care and love for them because they're a part of us, but also because we hold authority to bless their lives and do

so. What is interesting is the way this is contrasted with what will happen less than 24 hours later on the cross. There he's not going to be asking for his father. There he needs his God. Ali, la masabakhtani, my God, my God, why has Thalfa sakin' me? In that case, he's not looking at Heavenly Father as Father. He's looking at Him in His role as God, my God, where have you been? Where are you now? So we see a difference

here between the use of Abba versus God. There's my father and my God. And I think there's something powerful to recognize the difference of the terminology that Christ is using here. You guys probably remember a religion professor named Stephen Robinson who wrote believing Christ. And I think the first time I kind of understood, oh, this idea that the pain would have killed us is when I read it in believing Christ on page 123, he said, if you or I had gone into the press of Gethsemane and shoulder that load of sin and pain, it would have squashed us like bugs snuffed us out instantly. But because he was the son of God and had power over death, his life could not be taken until he laid it down

of his own will. We were having come following me with my kids and we were just talking about, sometimes we say they killed Jesus, well, actually he gave his life and he said, no man take it's my life from me. I actually he gave his life and he said, no man take it from my life from me. I lay it down of myself and that way we don't look for people necessarily to blame because

we needed him to die. That was the plan. We're so grateful that he did that, but it was a willing sacrifice, which again is a manifestation of his love for us. He was willing to do this. Yeah, if it's not an act of agency, then it's not a sacrifice. If a sacrifice is something that changes and transforms, if Christ doesn't go through it himself, by his own agency, it has no efficacy. The transformation doesn it take place. One of the interesting elements

of it that I find is, and I know we call it gasemony that he's oppressed, right? So we have this idea that he's being pressed and squeezed and, and there's elements of that in Isaiah 53 that will be bruised for our niceties. That word is in Hebrews, Dachah meaning to crush, he'll be crushed for our niceties. It's the same root that lies behind the translation of contrite in the Old Testament. Contrite is a Latin word which beats to crush. So the sacrifice that Christ goes through to be crushed for ouriquities, we experience as we offer a broken heart and a crushed spirit. So there's a similarity in the type of sacrifice. But what

strikes me about it, and this is just an area of interest again, of which it's not like I've got a great answer, but if he bleeds from every pore. Now, the imagery we have is of Christ being crushed. Now, a crushing would be a squeezing. So he's being squeezed, and we can get that, and we get the idea that, well, then blood's coming out of every pore.

But if he's being completely crushed all over his body physically in some fashion, then he shouldn't be bleeding from every poor until after the crushing. Just the physicality. That's option number one. Option number two is that the pressure isn't from outside. It's somehow inside. And therefore, it's somehow inside. And therefore, it's pushing out. There's a level of physical engagement in this act that I don't think we grasp or comprehend. And I don't know if this pressure of the

entropy is from the inside out or from some of the outside in either way, it's doing something to his body. So that's one thing. The other one is the cosmic nature of the act. And I keep using the word entropy and there's a reason. One of my other favorite passages is Enrollment's Eight. This is a part of the letter where Paul has begun to now make his case that we can all be transformed and changed Jew or Gentile into a new creature, into the children of God, he says. So you end up with verse 17 and if children children and heirs heirs have got 18.

So he says, the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed to us. Saying, there's a glory that we have, thanks to Christ that could be made available. And then he says in verse 19, for the earnest expectation of the creature, waited for the manifestation of the sons of God.

If you look in the footnotes, 19B, there you find that the Greek word means the creation. So instead of creature, you could read a discreation, or all matter in the universe. This is a cosmic scope to this act that Christ is performing, because it's through Christ that we become sons and daughters of God, right? So what it's suggesting here is the earnest expectation, this hope, there's an expectation on the part of the cosmos, on the cosmos, that all matter in the cosmos. Wates for the exaltation or the ability for a human being to become something more thanks to Christ. That transformation that is made possible through the atonement, the entire universe is waiting for this. Why? Verse 20, for the creature, or the material universe, was made subject to vanity, emptiness. There's nothing

to it, not willingly, but by reason of him who subjected the same hope, because the creature, the universe, the material cosmos itself shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption. He's not talking about humanity. He's talking about all matter. There's a cosmic scale to this atonement. We tend to look at it egocentrically. The atonement fixes the corruption, the pain, the suffering, the entropy of my life. But this Paul gives a glimpse into its cosmic scale. All matter is redeemed through the Atonement of Christ. It was made to be delivered from the bondage of corruption, decay, entropy.

As I like to describe it, these verses, plus the resurrection itself, suggest that the second law of thermodynamics does not in fact have universal sway Hugh Nibbli when talking about Jacob in the book Mormon mentions entropy He talks about you know how Paul often speaks of our bodies as corruption and he uses that word here that you just read to That our bodies will corrupt but as it Jacob who says, there must needs be a power of resurrection. I think it's second Nephi nine. And he unibely commented on that.

Yeah, the only way to do entropy is with power. And Jacob speaks of it that way, the power of the resurrection. I never noticed power of resurrection before, but it's used that way a few times in the book of Mormon. And I just, when you talked about entropy, I went back to physical science class. But here we see that being talked, there's got to be a power that can put things back in order. I love it. And that's what Christ is paying for in the Garden of

Gisemite, all entropy, for all matter everywhere. Not just for years in my sins, but for a star that exploded in the galaxy that is we can't even see anymore. No wonder his body trembled. No wonder he shook from this. No wonder he thought, I don't think I might be able to pull this off. I don't think we often think about the cosmic scope of Christ's sacrifice. And yet it transforms everything. That is beautiful. Elder Callister, Tadar Callister, he said this and I've always appreciated it because I never feel like I, when we discuss the atonement in class or on this podcast that we ever really do it justice. I bet our listeners are feeling that this week at home,

trying to teach this, right? Like, how can I possibly attempt to explain what's happening? So I think you can take comfort in this. He says, every attempt to reflect upon the atonement, to study it, to embrace it, to express appreciation for it. However small or feeble it may be, that's how we sometimes feel trying to talk about this small and feeble. However small or feeble it may be, we'll kindle the fires of faith and work its miracle

toward a more Christlike life. So don't be worried this week about if you can fully comprehend what's happening as Dr. Bellnap has told us, we can't fully comprehend what is happening. We can make small and feeble attempts to study, embrace, express appreciation, and that will kindle the fires of faith. One thought that's really helped me as I both study and teach the Savior's Atonement is this thought from President Nelson. He says, when we comprehend his voluntary atonement, any sense of sacrifice on our part becomes completely overshadowed by a profound sense of gratitude for the privilege of serving him. I love this thought because, you know, what do I do with this cosmic, voluntary

atonement? What do I do with it? President Nelson says, let your sense of sacrifice that, you know, we talked about this earlier, giving your time and talents and effort. He says, let that can be completely overshadowed by a profound sense of gratitude for getting to serve him in return. The only thing I would say to the Atonement, I guess one last one is, is too often, though, we use the Atonement rightfully so. We've talked about it all day about this, about the way it overcomes negative things, entropy, negative aspects. But if that's true, then nobody knows how to celebrate better than Christ does. And I think there's an aspect of the Atomah where we don't take into account. Nobody knows how good it feels to get a straight A on a test. Nobody knows how cool it is to have a beautiful day, just

right? How often do we end up sharing our joys with Christ? Like, and I mean that, and not in a sense of, oh, I should be and I'm a bad person if I don't, but how does the Atonement take good things and make them great? Because the Atonement does that too. And he made it through. There should be a sense of celebration

that he did this, this huge thing. And so if he knows you're pain and suffering, he knows you're joys. And nobody if he knows your pain and suffering, he knows your choice. And nobody celebrates better than Christ with those joys. I think that it was elder, Bruce Harmaconky, I tell my students, he said something about everything because sometimes if you can't find something, you can find that elder Maconky said something about it. I love this idea that he said once of the three gardens of God, the Garden of Eden, the Garden of Gethsemane, tomb that was in a garden. We don't know exactly

which, but that idea of beautiful things happening, most important things on earth happening in gardens. One of the questions I've always had is, why is it that only Luke gives us this much detail? We get the blood coming from every port in Luke in section 19 in King Benjamin's speech. I'm so glad we read section 19 because that's the first person, right? And I also think we don't want any of our listeners to think we are discounting the cross and the continuing events at the atonement on the cross, but any thoughts about why the other gospels don't mention this event that happened against Semini? Again, this is what are those we we don't know for sure, but what it would suggest

is if he's got unique insights, he's got a source that he's going to that the others aren't using. That doesn't mean they don't have it, but maybe they didn't go to it. And so as he's putting together his narrative and his book, and he's constructing it, he's looking at different eyewitnesses or different source material. He's going to different individuals to tell their story. In this case, I don't know. It was given to him a different source. Right. But it's interesting that Luke, this is not the first place he's done this. The story of Christ's birth, he has narratives that the others don't. And there, interestingly, he has insight from Christ's mother, Mary. So he's able to tell us that Mary kept these things in her heart.

I don't know. There's a part of me now. This is way, this is Dan Bellnap way out there. But I've wondered if part of the reason why he knows some of these stories is because he went and talked with Mary, who talked with her son and her son told us about these things. One of the things that Luke does do a great job of at least in my mind, Christ isn't the only one who has a unique experience in mortality. Mary also has a unique experience. There's no one who's ever given

a birth like Mary ever has. So there's an element of this where she doesn't have anybody else to relate to about it either. John the Baptist is a unique prophet. No other prophet has really been like John the Baptist and had to experience what he's gone through. Of a sense of in my prophetic authority, I'm still alive when another prophet shows up on the seed, Christ. I must decrease and he must increase. That's kind of unique. Most prophets kind of end on a crescendo note and their prophetic authority or ministry is done when they die. For the case of John, uh-uh, it goes before that. We have three individuals in the book of Luke who have unique mortal ministries. And they're not the same, but I wonder if they can relate to one another in a way.

Well, I have no idea what you went through, but I went through something similar. I've always wondered in the case of Mary, who ends up doing something that is unlike any other mortal human being on this earth. If one of the reasons why was not just because that's the way it has to be done, but because Mary can relate to her son in a way that nobody else can. Mary as mother can go, I don't know what you went through my son, but I know exactly how it feels to have to do it by yourself. I know. So I don't know if some of these insights about Christ's unique experience come from his mother, but it comes from somebody and it's somebody in this group who's able to tell this story because they've been told it or they experienced it.

So the Luke could put it down. I've just always been curious. Why is it that only Luke talks about this if it were so important? Well, the other gospel authors talk about the garden, right? Just point that out with John. Those prophecies that you mentioned in the book of Mormon are often associated with the prophecy of Mary as well. I'm not 100% sure those are separable. Good point. This is in the first paragraph of the manual for this week. It says,

in that garden, and later on the cross, Jesus took upon Himself the sins, pains, and sufferings of every person who ever lived, although almost no one alive at the time knew what was happening. Eternity's most important events often pass without much worldly attention. But God, the Father, knew. And it talks about, he heard the pleading of his son. While we were not there to witness this act of selflessness and submission, we are witnesses of the Atonement of Jesus Christ every time we repent and receive forgiveness of our sins every time we feel the Savior's strengthening power, we can testify of the reality of what happened

in the Garden of Guest Semini. Dan, it's difficult as it is, and as much as I don't want to move on from the Garden of Guest Semini, let's move to Dawn 18 and the Savior's arrest. What do you see here that our listeners need to see? Well, first of all, it is interesting that John doesn't really tell us anything about what happened in the Garden of Guest Semini. That's just not a part of his story. I mean, you get chapter 18, the begins with the disciples come over to the brook, they

enter into the garden, and then that's about it. And then that's just not a part of John's story. Instead, interestingly, his focus is on Peter. What happens with Peter? When we look at it, all of the Gospels have told us following the events in the Garden of Gisemite, or at least Christ's paying of that price in the Garden of Gisemite, they get out and they encounter a group and that group is led by Judas, who's it going now going to be trade Christ.

Maybe he already betrayed him before in the minute he left the room, but this is now when it becomes official. He's going to lead that group to him and identify Christ that leads to the rest of the trial, which will lead to the crucifixion and everything else. In the case of John, they tell us something interesting. In chapter 3, Judas then having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, the Greek word there for band designates a cohort, which is a Roman army unit, and a cohort is about 600 people.

Now we know there's a large multitude. If this word is to be taken literally, there's at least 600 people that go to the garden of Gisemite. Now, that number is big, and maybe this is an element of where John's playing with it, but if you look a few verses later, John tells him an event that happens that the others do not. Jesus, therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth and said unto them, who seek ye? By the way, all of the Gospels emphasize this. Jesus knows what's got to happen. He knows the order of it. This is not to say that it's predestined.

Agency's played a role in this. But what all the gospels want to say is is nothing surprised Christ. Nothing at all outside of maybe what happened in the garden came as a surprise to Christ. This was ordained. This had to happen. Christ knew it. In any case, Huseki, they answered Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus said unto them, I am He, and Jesus also, which betrayed Him, stood with Him. And as soon as he said unto them, I am He, and Jesus also which betrayed him, stood with him. And as soon as he said unto them, I am He, they went backward and fell to the ground. That's John's the only one to mention that. The only one that mentions this idea that Christ, however he says, I am He, is said with such

force and such authority that everyone falls to the ground. authority that everyone falls to the ground. Now, the scene that John sets up is, you've got this cohort 600 plus people there, and Christ says, I am he and knocks everyone over. And that context sets up Peter cutting off the ear of one individual. So they get off the ground and you can only imagine if you were one of those 600, what would you be doing now? This individual has spoken three words and knocked you to the ground with the power of those three words. I am he and down they go and they all fell to the ground. Then he asked them again, who do you seek?

And they said, Jesus of Nazareth and he said, I've told you that I'm he. Told you. And with this demonstration of power, he then says, if you therefore seek me, let these go their way. He's talking about the disciples. Again, we don't have all the background. We're not getting a lot of detail. But if I were one of the 600 that it's just been knocked to the ground by the force of this speaking. And he then said, you're going to let these go, right? I'd probably go, yeah, sure, go for it. Sure.

John has set up this narrative to telling us a story of Christ's divine power. So he doesn't tell us about what happened to the garden where he paid the prices and divide being. We get afterwards where he is Not just the Messiah. This is God I can knock over 600 people and that sets up the story with Simon Peter in the ear So Peter is going to draw the sword and he cuts off the ear We know about this the priest's servant cuts off my priest's servant and then Jesus said under Peter put up

They soared into the she the cup which my father had given me. Shall I not drink of it? Now, by the way, that suggests something interesting. That cup language, shall I not drink of the cup? Christ had talked about in the garden, Gassamini. John puts it after the events of being in the garden, paying the price, suggesting that maybe the cup is still going, that Christ still must drink from this cup. All three of us talked about how this is just one aspect of the Atonement. The Atonement is much more than just what happens in the garden. It's what happens on the cross. If the Atonement means to bring to one or to make one, the Atonement has to continue with

the work that happens in the Spirit World. The Atonement has to include the Resurrection. If there's no Resurrection, then there's no Atonement. There can be no Atonement. In the Book of Mormon, adds one more. If you look in Mosiah 18, when Alma is repeating the words of Abinadi, what he ends up saying is he taught these individuals. He taught them of the redemption and resurrection, which is made possible through the

sufferings and the works and the resurrection and the ascension of Christ. The Book of Mormon adds the importance of the ascension, and we don't talk enough about that, but there's something to the ascension of Christ. In this case, this idea that he's mentioning that I still have more of the cup to drink Suggest that the atoning process isn't over. So he does that in the band and the captain the officers of the Jews took Jesus and bound him elsewhere in the other Gospels when they tell the story about Peter in the ear. Christ will turn him and says, don't you think I could call down a legion of angels? I mean, do you not think that if I wanted to defend myself? I could call down a Legion of Angels. I mean, do you not think that if I wanted to defend myself,

I could. John gives us an account of where he just did it. I just knocked over 600 people by my words alone, Peter. Do you think I could take care of it if I wanted to? Yeah. So we have that element of it there. And I think there's, I think that's something profound. That of course leads to the events of the denial of Peter on the part of Christ. Yeah, let's let's look at that. When you get into that narrative, that really begins in about verse 15. Now, keeping in mind the rest of the story, there's too many tantalizing elements that we just simply don't know. Simon Peter, according to verse 15, follows Jesus and so did another disciple. Now, the vagueness makes this thing. It might be John, but we don't know who this other disciple is.

What we do know is that disciple is somehow related in some fashion with the high priest. And so it didn't know that disciple, that disciple was known under the high priest. Yeah, he's got an in there somehow. And therefore, this is what allows Peter to go in. I think the big stuff is in verse 18, when Peter comes in, this is where it comes back to an idea that we talked about at the beginning of this. The servants and officers stood there.

These, so they've got a fire, it's kind of cold, truth be told, if this is around March, early April, Jerusalem can't still be cold at night. You can still have the stormy season run through early April. If that's the case, it's cold. The servants and officers stood there and they made a fire of colds and they're warming themselves and Peter stood with them. This idea of being with Christ or with others, it's here at play again at John. He's with them this time. He's not with Christ. And that might be something that these different gospel writers are playing with. Who exactly is with Christ? And by the end nobody's going to be with Christ on that cross.

That's part of that atonic process. That's part of the cup. His circle is getting smaller and smaller. Very small. His circle of friends. Yeah. Until they'll just be him. And in many ways, that brings the full circle to me.

One of the things he had talked about on the sermon on the mount or the different elements of the sermon on the mount, this rejoice when they persecuture, rejoice when they do these things. There's a real desire for human beings to engage socially. We don't like to be thought badly of in any context. We don't like to be alone with social creatures.

Joseph Smith talked about this, the same sociality that exists here exists there, only coupled with the eternal glory. That's a paraphrase of the section 130 verse 2. We don't like to be alone. But we see this playing back and forth. Are you with Christ? Are you not with Christ? And by the end, nobody's going to be with Christ. He's the one person who has truly ever ever been alone cut off Isolated that is a normal emotional feeling that we have as human beings But we've never experienced it like Christ. Joseph Smith is told what is in section 122 You've never been that far You've never gone that far

Even when the wolves prowl around your door if the very jaws of hell keep open after the, if the seas billow up against the, Joseph, you've never gone so far that I can't find you. Christ's aloneness, his isolation makes it possible so that we never are and never have been. Even when we talk about those sons of tradition, again, I go back to 76, their mind, I'm not going to tell you anything about the, that's not your call, it's not your concern, but they are mine. There's still a level where there's still God's. But Christ, Christ was alone. So we can see this play back and

forth in Luke 22 and John 18. Are you with them? Who's with them? Who are you with? And we can see that engagement with Peter. Awesome. It seems that, you know, here's Peter, and when he's with the apostles, when he's with Jesus, he was showing so much strength, and here he's kind of alone on his own at the fire.

And maybe he doesn't have that kind of strength. Again, we want to be careful here because we don't know Peter's motive. This person Kimbal taught in Peter and my brother. We don't know exactly what's happening, but it's okay to take lessons, I think, here, from these different schools of thought. I agree. I wonder if there's an element there of almost a reflection of Christ. We're skipping all over this story, but we know Christ is going to be completely

Cut off on that cross and the mocking that will take place if you're really who you say you are get come down from that cross We see a reflection of that tying back to the temptations that the adversary gave him in the wilderness this if you're say who you say you are come down off the cross But he passes that trial Peter also experiences being alone to your point. I think that's intriguing that you just brought up. He is alone. Before when we've seen Peter, he's with other disciples or he's with Christ. And we've seen Peter act with Christ. Now he's on his own. And that's when his faith fails him. That's when it happens right here. And this is where he needs to learn

about what true conversion is to take it back to Luke 22. He is by himself. I don't think he meant to betray him. I can't tell from the text for sure, but or deny him. But there's an element here where it's like when he gets called on the spot, he's not expecting it and he just reacts. called on the spot, he's not expecting it and he just reacts. And he reacts weekly. No, no, no, I'm not, I'm not a part of this, but he's by himself. So we have Christ who's by himself, we have Peter who's by himself.

And we see how they react to the sense of what happens. And one is weaker and one fails, but that's all fronted by that, ah, but I prayed over you, Peter, that your faith won't fail you. So when you're converted, strengthen your brother. You're gonna be okay. You're gonna make it through this.

It's interesting, or maybe even in Peter's defense, where's everybody else? He's sticking close. He's sticking close by, at least. I wonder if I can hear what's going on or, I might be needed. I mean, he's sticking around and I don't know where everybody else went. I think that's interesting that he's standing right outside

the palace there and maybe trying to figure out what's going on inside. I don't know. Yeah, and that's what brings it again to me. She's your point, John. I think that wasn't his plan to deny Christ, right? I don't think he went in going, yeah, if they ever asked me, this is what I'll say. This feels spontaneous. It feels like I'm on the spot. I'm threatened in some way. This has an implicit threat of violence in some way,

and he just fails. He just fails. That's how he looked at it. And we know that he says that because once that cross three times, according to Luke, Christ doesn't say anything. He just looks over and catches Peter's eyes. According to Luke, just Christ looks over, sees Peter, Peter sees it and just starts weeping. He knows what he's done. That's Luke 2261. The Lord turned and looked upon Peter. I mean, he doesn't

say anything. He just looks at Peter. He's like, this is a fulfillment of what I just said. And there's some irony in that element of it too. And the irony is going to show up a little bit in John, but in Luke, Christ had prophesied that Peter would deny. You just got fulfillment of Christ's prophecy. And in the next verse, in the, as they begin to put him on trial, it's prophesy for us if you can.

Prophecy, what's going to happen? And you want to go, you just did. He just did. Yeah. Luke shows you that he had just prophesied. And that his prophecy had come true. I've always loved this stop mill, their Scott. He says about Luke Luke 2261, the Lord turned and looked upon Peter.

He said, this tender passage also illustrates how very much the Savior loved Peter. Although he was in the midst of an overpowering challenge to his own life, with all the weight of what was to transpire upon his shoulders, yet he turned and looked at Peter. The love of a teacher transmitted to a beloved student, giving courage and enlightenment in a time of need that he still remembers him. He's not looking at him, you know, like in hatred or in anger, just looking at him. Yeah, I think the look portrayed, but Peter, I've prayed over you. I've prayed for you that your faith would be strong, that your faith would prevail. I think the look conveyed that faith of Christ.

That's cool. Well, I should point out there is in John 18, this idea that this can go to a part of it. Christ never throws anyone under the bus. If you look at verse 19, the Ipreah said, ask Jesus of His disciples. It almost wants Him to like, tell me, give me the names of disciples. Let's do this

and Christ doesn't. This is where Christ is like, hey listen guys, you can ask anyone who's ever heard me speak. That's great. That's really fun. I'm not going to give you names. Yeah. I want a list of everybody you hang out with. Yeah. Right. As we've gone through this year, don't you think Hank, I just have come to to love and appreciate and kind of empathize with Peter because I do dumb things and need the Lord's correction and everything. And I wonder if a lot of our listeners are also a little more empathetic towards Peter and the position he was put in. And all the things we've seen him go through leaving his nets behind and then being on the mount or transfiguration and saying it's good for or transfiguration and saying, it's good for us to be here and everything that's coming. It's just, it's exciting to see someone

I feel like I can relate to a little more. It's Peter with his ups and downs and everything. This has been good and to cut him some slack and say, yeah, we don't know everything about this. And his willingness to share and to let all this come out helps us identify with him and love him more. Dan, before we let you go, this has just been profound chapters and you've really opened them up to us in awesome ways.

What do you hope our listeners walk away with from this week's lesson? We think about how profound the Atomitas and what that act was. Even as we understand that we cannot comprehend fully, it is worth exploring. It is worth recognizing. As Latter-day Saints, we have a body and we believe in a embodied salvation. Therefore, the physical experience of Christ, I'm not saying we dwell on the suffering, but what was the mechanism? What are the full effects of this atoning act? I mean, I can talk about it.

It's the same way of trying to figure out what an infinity or any large number is. I can describe it, but it's hard to comprehend, and yet it's worth the describing, if that makes any sense. I think it's important that we think about the Atonement a lot and think about it in terms of how he experienced it. What it might have meant for him. I think the element of these friends that he's got right outside that are part of this experience.

However, that experience was happening. I don't know what it means to pray or to sleep in sorrow, but somehow they're experiencing part of this process. They're not paying for it, but they're experiencing it, which puts them in a very select category of people. And in the case of Peter, Peter did let himself down. That's ultimately what I would say. I don't know if he let down Christ. Christ had prayed over him. Christ knew that his faith wouldn't fail, but Peter let himself down. And yet Christ won't let him be overcome by this. I've wondered if Christ had met with Peter after the resurrection, what would have happened to Peter? Or what would have happened? Whatever the result is, Peter does not let this overtake him. And in the end, Christ is right. His faith didn't fail. We could have moments

where we fail. We're going to have moments when we fail. But that doesn't mean we failed. Certainly not from Christ's perspective, who paid a price and in that price was able to see all of us for who we really are and pay the price for that. And that's how he sees things. That's how he sees us. That's how he understands us. And it's what allows him to have faith in us, which in turn allows us to have faith in him. I think that's huge. I think that's got to be an important element of our relationship with Christ, a recognizing that he has faith in us as much as we might have faith in him. And that is what allows us to be his friends. He really does want to be friends with us.

Not just disciple and master, not just father and children, but friends, friends who help each other out. I think we helped him out. I think he helps us out. Wow John What a great day. We've had with Dr. Belknap today. I've learned so much and there's been moments where I'm Just wow, how have I never seen that before? Yeah, and I keep thinking of what you just said Dan greater love half the no man than this that a man laid down his life for his friends I think that's great. We want to thank Dr. Dan Bellnap for being with us today. What a treat.

Thank you, Dr. Bellnap. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sornson. We want to thank our sponsors, David and Verla Sornson, and we always remember our founder, Steve Sornson. We hope all of you will join us next week as we continue looking at the last night of the Savior's life on Follow Him. Today's transcripts, show notes, and additional references are available on our website, followhim.co, followhim.co, and you can watch the podcast on YouTube with additional videos on Facebook and Instagram. All of this is absolutely free, so be sure to share with your family and friends. To reach those who are searching for help with their Come Follow Me study please subscribe,

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