Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Malachi Part 1 • Dr. Barbara Gardner • Dec. 12 - Dec. 18

Episode Date: December 7, 2022

Why does God have expectations of his children? Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner explores the themes of love, gathering, and redemptionPlease rate and review the podcast!Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/old-testament/Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/follow-him-a-come-follow-me-podcast/id1545433056Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/15G9TTz8yLp0dQyEcBQ8BYThanks to the follow HIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producers, SponsorsDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith and I'm John by the way. We love to learn, we love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. Hello my friends, welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith and I am your host.

And I'm here with my co-host, who is the master and the scholar. John, by the way, you are a master and a scholar. Did you know that? Hank, I bought a PhD from the University of Mayberry, the University of Mayberry. That's right. I need one of those.

Barney Fife, is he the one he, did he hand the diploma over? How would he say say it John? I know here you go. You earned a degree They're not exactly in a credited school. It's hard to get accreditation when your professors names are goober and gomer gomer Well John that comes from Malachite chapter two, but it's actually not a compliment. It says the Lord is going to cut off the master and the scholar. So I don't know how we're going to understand the book of Malachi, John, without some help. So who is with us to help us understand this book?

I'm excited. You're excited. Our listeners will be excited to have back with us, Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner, she was here last year, helped us with section 84. She's the author of the priesthood power of women. And Barbara, I'm just going to read your bio out of the back here and then you can update it. If there's anything that needs to be updated, Barbara Morgan Gardner is an associate professor of church history and doctrine at Brigham Young University. She holds a Master's degree in Educational Leadership and Foundations and a PhD in Instructional

Psychology. She did post doctoral work at Harvard University. She was Institute Director at Boston, Massachusetts serving more than 100 universities and colleges in the area and acting as Chaplain at Harvard and MIT. She continues to serve as the Chaplain at large in higher education for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint. She and her husband Dustin Gardner and their two daughters live in Utah. Welcome.

Thanks for coming back again. Thanks, Sean. It's great to be here with you guys. We love having you here. We don't call our doctor Morgan Gardner around here. We call our barb if that's okay. That's preferable for me. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Barb, this week we made it to the end of the Old Testament. John, can you believe it? We made it all the way to the end. It seems like just yesterday we were starting out in Genesis chapter one and here we have made it to Malachi and so many listeners have made this journey with us. First of all, we need to say thank you to all of those who made this journey with us

and we need to finish really well, which is why we brought you in, Barb, we need to finish on top. So where do you want to start with this book? What do our listeners need to know? How would you approach it? Let's hand the reins over to you. I love this book. I was here last time with you guys doing Dr. and Covenant section 84 and believe it or not

Malachi and section 84, the Dr. and Covenants have a lot in common. Which for me makes me very happy. This is a great tie in from the Old Testament, brings in the New Testament, but it is strong in doctrine and covenants and also in the Book of Mormon. Malachi is found in all the standard works of the Pearl Great Price as well. We're talking priesthood in here, we're talking temple, we're talking falling away from the laws of God, we're talking allowing God to prevail, holy air and higher ways. If some of these sound familiar, it's not only Section 84, but it's also 2021, President Nelson. So it's fun to see this tie in from Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, Doctor and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and now Living Prophet. Malachi

was clearly a great prophet, so fun, totally inspired, speaking for God as a messenger, which is what Malachi means, my messenger. I'm so glad you said that. And let's talk about that a little bit more. Jesus shares the book of Malachi with the righteous among the Nephites and Lamanites because Malachi lived after Lehigh had already left, but he felt it important enough that he shares this with the righteous in the new world.

And then why is it in the Prologue price? Because Marone, I quoted parts of it to Joseph Smith and a little bit differently, which I'm sure we'll talk about today. So I think it's just kind of interesting. I don't know of another book like this that is mentioned in all of the standard works. That's kind of a fun little factoid there. Yeah. There's a reason, and it's a serious reason, as we've seen the doctrine covenant section to, the importance of Elijah as being referred to in Malachi.

This is the whole world will be utterly destroyed if it's not for what happens in this book. The prophecy of Malachi. Pretty amazing. Yeah. Barb, I was listening to the Bible project this morning, and it seems that the background for this book is that the people have come back from exile. They've been back from exile for a while, and exile didn't change anything. The hope was come back, rebuild the temple,

and be God's people, and it seems that that's not happening, that the people were corrupt before the exile, and now after the exile, they're also corrupt. Am I on track when I say that? Very much so. It's very much like me and the Lord, like all of us, although in this case we're talking about this covenant people, we know in our day that this covenant will be fulfilled in these final days. But in this day, yes, we have these people

who are coming back just like Jama saying, we're talking 470, 440 BC. They've already had the temple destroyed. Temple's been rebuilt. They're there now. It seems that we're going to be excited to see these wonderful Israelites be obedient and come back to the Lord and be a covenant-keeping people. And right off the bat, the Lord is going to talk to them about temples and covenants. And we're looking at it and saying, come on, we're living in this day now

where we're seeing this real emphasis on covenants and being a covenant-keeping people and being on the covenant path and all these things, and you can see that although we want this so badly for them, they aren't willing to do it. I think probably the hardest part for me in this book in a sense is the terminology that they're using where they're questioning the Lord and acting as if they are doing what the Lord would have them to do. But as you see in verse 14 of chapter one, for example, it says, the Lord calls them deceivers.

It's like they're giving 99% but the Lord requires 100. And so they question the Lord, but in reality, the Lord gave 100 and he wants us covenant people to also give 100. It's the reality of our life today. It is hard to give all. They're just holding back a little bit. They have their favorite sins or they have the ways of thinking that they can deceive the Lord and the Lord will not

be deceived. And that's a hard thing for all of us. Yeah, I noticed that in my reading is that there's this conversation going back and forth and their attitude towards him is a little scary to me. It started out right in verse two. I have loved you say at the Lord and you to respond with, when have you loved us? Like, oh, wow. And that's an issue that we have today. I mean, I look at that verse, it makes me just so sad. You see it's just so poignant. I have loved you, say, of the Lord, and then their response, when prove it, we're not seeing this love. So it reminds me of Alder Rendland when he says, the greater thud distance between the giver and the receiver, the more the receiver develops a sense of entitlement, also has profound spiritual implications he talks about.

And I think that that's what they're seeing here. They've lost this closeness to the Lord, and in so losing them, they have this entitlement. They're not able to see how much God loves them because they've separated themselves from God. Therefore, they can't even feel the love that he has as eternal and perfect. Their definition of love becomes a different definition

of love than God's. They're wanting, it seems God to give them the blessings associated with the covenants without keeping the covenants, they're kind of spoiled in a sense. And God's a true gentleman, he wants to create a future God, he doesn't want to create spoiled children. And it seems like they're being spoiled and he's wanting them to become like him. And they

don't understand that his love really is meant to help them become like him. And he's not going to budge. Wow, I got to read you this. They reminded me of April 20, 21 General Conference. This is President Oaks. He said, in a Saturday evening meeting at a state conference many years ago, I met a woman who said her friends had asked her to come back to church after many years of it in activity, but she could not think of any reason why she should. To encourage her, I said, when you consider all of the things the Savior has done for you, you have many reasons to come back and worship and serve him. I was astonished when she replied, what's he ever done for me?" And then he answers, what has Jesus Christ done for each of us? He has done everything that is essential for our journey through mortality toward the destiny outlined in the plan of our heavenly Father. And he goes on in this talk, what has our Savior done for us? That struck me in chapter 1 verse 2.

I have loved you and they respond with, when? When have you loved us? What have you ever done for us. That struck me in chapter one verse two. I have loved you and they respond with when? When have you loved us? What have you ever done for us? Wow. And he has to remind them of their heritage. He has to go all the way back to tell them about Jacob, about Israel, the original Israel. I love that quote. I love that talk from President Oaks. It reminds me of this play that's written by W. H. Odin. He has a little quote, which this kind of love and what they're seeming to want, I think, is very well wrapped up in this little statement. He says in the play, Oh God, put away justice and truth for we cannot understand them and do not want them. Leave thy heavens and come down to our earth. Become our uncle. Look after baby,

a muse grandfather, escort my damn to the opera, help Willie with his homework, and introduce Muriel to a handsome naval officer, be interesting and weak like us, and then we will love you as we love ourselves. It's that idea of trying to bring God to our level of love instead of allowing ourselves to be transferred and a sense for the Atomative Christ to his kind of love. Love is hard. The moral, we are, of course, the more our capacity is to love. God has said to us, love me in two ways, keep my commandments and serve feed my sheep. And these people are not willing

to do those things. But yet, they're wondering why God isn't showing his love to them, but in reality, he is. They just can't see it because they're not willing to keep his commandments. They're blind. They're blind to reality because of their distrust and disobedience. One of the things this whole year has just impressed me with how God is the opposite of detached. He keeps coming back after his children and keeps inviting them to come back. And I'm afraid I'm too much natural man. I would at some point just throw up my hands and walk away, but he never does. He keeps coming back and inviting them to get back on the path and repent and everything. I guess I should have noticed that before, but I just really this year noticed he won't leave us alone in the positive way of that. He keeps inviting us back and offering repentance. I mean, John, you're the same way.

I mean, so much of this as a father to their children, you will never give up on your children. And they may not appreciate, and they may compromise and say, Dad, you're not really loving me. But you know, as a parent that you are loving them, in this case, not perfectly like the Lord, but you're loving them to the best of your ability. And they may come back with it.

You don't really love me, but in reality, you will never give up on your children. I think that's the beauty of learning to be parents is we don't give up. Of course, there are times when you have to have boundaries and things, and that's a different ballgame. God has God. He's able to perhaps have a different law than we are, but just like him, I think we are taught, we just don't give up.

And there's not an age that all of a sudden we stop being parents. We love, we care, and we don't give up. And there's not an age that all of a sudden we stop being parents. We love, we care, and we don't give up. And we hear excuses too. This reminds me, this is personal on this side, but I remember after we adopted our two children, my oldest daughter was really struggling. And things were so great and life was good. And we were helping her on the swim team and doing her math and getting her homework done and just giving her some assignments and trying to help her grow and become the kind of person that she needs to be.

And one day she just broke down, she was just in tears, she was just young, eight, she just says, you don't love me like my birth mother loved me. And I remember saying, Ali, what do you mean by that? And she said, my birth mother didn't require anything of me. I could watch movies all day, I could eat whatever I wanted to. I didn't have homework. I didn't have to go to school.

The list went on and on and on. And of course, I was very positive about her birth mother. But to me, I just said, Ali, I show you, I love you by what I expect of you and who I know you're going to become. And I'm going to be on that path with you. But I don't show my love for you by not requiring things. I show my love for you by seeing that you are a future goddess,

the daughter of God. So we've had a number of discussions in our family about how we show love and what love really looks like and use the scriptures to use God's love and that. And this is a great example of that. I agree, John. Really good. Our friend, Brad Wilcox Cox who's been on the program, he's so good at these little statements. He said, a God that is asking nothing of us

is making nothing of us. Amen. And he asks a lot, but that's because he wants to make us into something better than what we are. I really like that. That's a positive spin on chapter one and chapter two because as I read chapter one and chapter two, I thought, oh my goodness, he is telling them everything that they are doing wrong.

They are bringing sacrifices to the temple, but the sacrifices are polluted. They are sick and blind and lame and they're supposed to bring these first things of their flocks here are the best that they have and it seems they're bringing Polooted terrible sacrifices and the Lord is calling them out on it But I like that he's gonna require it of them because he loves them I just thought maybe we should talk about why because lots of people I know are blind and layman sick myself included so Why is it that that would be a polluted sacrifice? I guess it's because what that sacrifice is pointing to and the sacrifices were supposed to be Unblemished first born the best of the flock because they were all pointing us to Christ and is that why the Lord would be unhappy with that kind of a sacrifice?

If all they had to offer I think it's their heart and their soul the sacrifice. If all they had to offer, I think it's their heart and their soul. They're offering not their best. He's saying, you have these sheep. You have what I've asked you to offer, but you're not offering your best. You're offering what is worth less to you. It's not a statement on how good or bad the sheep are. It's how good or bad the intention and the motivation is of the people.

It's the elder Maxwell quote, where we talk about often, where he talks about the willing heart and the willing mind, doctrine, covenants, the broken heart and the contr is of the people. It's the elder Maxwell quote where we talk about often, where he talks about the willing heart and the willing mind, doctrine, covenants, the broken heart and the contrite spirit. There's not a broken heart here and there's not a contrite spirit. These are not people who are offering, putting their animal, as he says on the altar. These are people who are putting their compromise

on the altar. They're giving second best, it's not a real sacrifice. Again, I think the point a lot of this is, they're willing to sacrifice something. They're willing to do the cane sacrifice, but they're not willing to do the able sacrifice. They're willing to give a piece of it,

but they're always holding something back, and he doesn't want them holding back. It's the whole, we have to give away our sins to know God. Yeah, well, I just wrote that above chapter one. You're not offering your best. And automatically, all the application came, which I really don't want to talk about. So can we move on? How many times do we do that same thing? You're not offering your best.

You're offering something. Thank you for offering something, but it's not your best. It's not what I've asked for. Yeah, John, go ahead. This is from the Old Testament student manual, volume two, which is first Kings to Malachi. In Malachi chapter 1 verse 7, it speaks of the table of the Lord, that's that altar. The altar or table of the Lord as Malachi called it, was the place of intercession, peacemaking, expiation, penitence, and sanctification. That which was consumed by its flames had in a figurative sense been consumed by God and was therefore understood to have been accepted by him. In as much as the sacrifices they made for the people typified the coming sacrifice and

atonement of the Son of God, the only acceptable sacrifice was that which was spotless. They were mocking God by offering sacrifices to the Lord with sick, blind, and lame animals and calling them acceptable. And here's what it gets to the heart with sick, blind, and lame animals, and calling them acceptable. And here's what it gets to the heart of it. They had no reverence for what they were doing. So I think that's what you're saying. The reverence part of the whole thing. Their heart wasn't in it. They were doing what they were supposed to in a way, but their heart wasn't in it, as you said. You guys are both making me super uncomfortable, because man, the application is just going through my head, but keep going, keep going, please.

I was just throwing that heart analogy that you just mentioned. Their heart's not in it. That's what you see in chapter two, verse two, if you will not hear and if you will not lay it to heart. I mean, this idea of heart goes throughout, again, this is a theme that's going throughout these scriptures is their heart isn't in it. They can say whatever they want to. They can compromise. They can show by their actions in some way that they really are looking forward and trying to become like Christ and trying to do what he's asking to do, but it is clear

by this sacrifice alone and other things that he's going to talk about in here that their heart is not in it. They are not converted to the gospel. They are not converted to Jesus Christ. They are making a mockery of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, but you can't get much worse than that. Yeah. And then the sad part is that they are asking the Lord, show us your love, and they're mocking him while they're doing it. It's a sad symbol of what's really going on, especially at an altar, where altars are always symbolic of Jesus Christ and his Atonement. And the priests are in on it too, barbays in that where the Lord's

like, hey, it's not just the people come into the temple, it's the people working in the temple. Exactly. I think that that's one of the sad parts here is these priests are supposed to be among the most righteous, but they're allowing it to happen too. I feel like we have to be careful with that. I think for the most part, especially in our day, the leaders of the church and especially those in the temple, I mean, they are the most sanctified, holy, blessed people. But I think that this is a warning that you are the leaders, you're the ones that are supposed to be setting the example and even you are mocking the things of God. It's a warning to every person that's in this, the Atomah of Jesus Christ and covenants are not to be mocked. The irony for me is back to verse two is I have loved you. I mean, the Lord to start

it out, I have loved you. And then they're questioning his love when in reality they have questioned his love by their actions. I noticed the Lord said, take what you're giving me and try giving it to somebody else. See how they like it. He says in verse eight, offer it to the governor. See if he's pleased with what you're offering me. What would you call this? The double standard that they're offering. This is my best. I'm offering my best and you're lying.

You're deceiving. You're a deceiver. This is not your best. It's like Elder Herobie Lee talking about with his mom, always telling him that you need to clean the corners first It's kind of that idea like Give it all give your very very best be sincere be real Don't hold it back. I mean how many of us are so often?

Well, think we're giving our best but in reality we're cutting corners to the Lord I think about I hope I'm not but if I'm cutting corners to giving my heart and soul to the Lord Then I am and none of us are perfect and I think that that's partially hanging because I, but if I'm cutting corners to giving my heart and soul to the Lord, then I am. And none of us are perfect. And I think that that's partially hang, and that's the struggle that each of us has. Is we all know that we have our favorite sins. We all know that we're holding back some things. I think the difference, though, is our intention is to give it all to Christ, to become better through the atonement of Jesus Christ, where at this case, it looks like they're making a mockery, and they're intentionally trying to deceive.

That's the distinction. And I think that's critical to the say to ourselves, Lord, is it I, am I holding back? Is there something with me or am I blaming and saying, no, actually, I'm really good. There's just a complete difference in how they're responding to the love of the Lord. So this isn't weakness that he's going after.

This is open rebellion. They're knowingly doing these things. Clearly. When you use the word deceiver, you know that you're openly doing it. And that's the frustration of deceiving. That's verse 14. That is Satan's tactic. And that's why I say 100% they are 99%, which is the danger of it.

And it's the danger for all of us in deception. When people are trying to deceive us, it's the key. You're trying to get so close to what is right. But that 1% is what makes the deception and but the a dissension is intentional. Thank you for saying that. Getting so close to it. Look at this phrase in verse 4, the border of wickedness. It's like, yeah, you're right there on the line. I used to hear that story in Deacon's Cormon. I was a kid about the guy who would drive the truck up Farmington Canyon That's really got some tall

windy roads with a big drop off right next to it and the story was always Somebody was hiring the driver and well, I can drive within six inches of the edge and never go off. And the next applicant said, I can drive within two inches and never go off. And the guy that got hired said, I stay as far away from the border as I can. I remember hearing that story a lot. And this idea of the border of wickedness and getting really close, but not quite there, that reminded me of that story. And you see that in verse 9, where he says, he's partial.

And then I think it's even more frustrating when you see like verse 17, you have worried the Lord with your words, yet you say, where and have we worried him? And then they say, when you say, everyone that do with evil is good in the sight of the Lord and he is delighted in them or where is the God of judgment.

They're not willing to accept responsibility for their actions. They're trying to twist what is evil and to good and what is good and to evil as we see all the time happening in the in the book of Mormon. And they just keep adding to it. I mean, you just continue to see that they're blaming the Lord and not willing to grow up. They're just not willing to be mature spiritually mature is lacking here. And that's the Lord is trying to prepare the people for the temple and for the second coming. And they clearly aren't ready because they will not take responsibility and they will not turn to the Savior. They want cheap grace. And that's what they're looking for. They're not willing to put in the effort. Other Maxwell has a statement. He says, sadly, too few envy the wicked. Still others complain that the wicked seem to get away with it. The idea of they're complaining. They get away with it. Like you're they're complaining that they get away with it.

Like you're complaining about it? It's just kind of a weird like we want to be that way. Oh, I think that exact thing is coming up in Malachi 3. You've said it's vain to serve God. What profit is it that we've kept his ordinance and walked mournfully before the Lord of Hosts? Now we call the proud happy. They that work wickedness are set up. They that tempt God are even delivered. I mean, that is exactly what you're saying. Look, the wicked are getting away with it. What is it profit us that we're serving God that they're asking that very thing? What versus that, John? I love that verse. Malachi 3, 14 and 15. I love these. I seem to remember, was it Glen Pace that came to BYU and talked about these verses? You could probably look it up, but the proud are set up. I love the words, the wicked are set.

They're set for life. They attempt God or delivered. And then verse 16, I love how, then they that feared the Lord, spake off into another, the Lord, harkened and heard it. A book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord and thought upon his name. And they shall be mine, say, the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels, I will spare them as a man spared his own son that served them.

Then I have to insert laughter in here then, shall you return and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that served with God and him that served him not. It's like you'll see there's an eventually in there somewhere. One day, you'll see a discern between the righteous in the wicked. I agree. It's just kind of a sad, frustrating way of thinking. They have been so wicked and they're still blessed. We've heard that so many times, our own. We hear that from teenagers. We hear that from ourselves. Why did they get a sin and still be blessed? Why are they getting away? Why were they able to not make covenants until they were 80 and all the sudden get blessed? Why didn't they have to work hard and then receive it?

The question isn't, why didn't they and then they get blessed? It's really the opposite. How much more could they have been blessed? Had they been obedient? And why are we jealous of wickedness? And the Lord, he just kind of ignores it and just says, you know what? In the long run, they will be my jewels.

We're talking eternal life here, people. We're talking, you have no idea what I am going to give you. Section 84, I'm giving you everything. So yeah, you may see temporarily that some people that are not being obedient are getting blessed, but in reality, they will be my jewels. You who are obedient will be my jewels. You'll have everything that I have. You become heirs of all that I have. Don't worry about complaining because you

didn't get a nice car. You're going to have mansions. And this all starts with comparing. I mean, when you said that, I thought of the parable of the labors and the vineyard, well, those guys just barely started working and you're paying them to say that kind of things go south when we start to look sideways. Well, what about them? What about them? Instead of looking at where we are with the Lord, we look to the side. Prodigal Son, there's the same kind of a looking, well, sideways type of a thing. So, and this starts out with, well, look, look, it's vain to serve God because look at the wicked. But thank you for saying that because should we ever be jealous of the wicked as

if wickedness was happiness? Yeah, but sometimes we do. I don't know why, but seems to be kind of a common thread. And this again, this is so comparable. It's so real for today. We look at that and just wish, oh, I wish I had more money. You know, I'm paying all this money for tithing and I don't have a mansion or I'm keeping a Sabbath day holy and I don't have all the blessings of this Sabbath. They have a new boat and a new yacht. It's just this idea of they are getting all these things and I'm getting nothing but it's the reality of we need to look into the eternities and be blessed. So we're talking about this wickedness and craziness. We forgot, we jumped ahead of verse one which is actually one of my favorite verses

in this whole book just because of my love for the prophets. It just says, the burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi. That idea of the burden of the word of the Lord and that burden. I watch our current prophet today, President Nelson, and I look at past Presidents, and we read about Pres presidents even beyond them and prophets and leaders of this church. And, you know, Enic, dealing with some of these wickedness and these words that are against him, Jesus Christ himself, like being like,

called the Carpenter's son, and just like this mockery that these prophets are constantly having to deal with. And I just think that burden of the word of the Lord is a real burden. They speak as prophets, stairs and revelators. They don't speak for themselves. Elder Holland has talked about this when it comes to,

he is going to say what the Lord has having him say. He's speaking for God. That is, and the footnote, it talks about the keys of priesthood. It leads us to that. That responsibility for a prophet, we are taught right in section 43 of the doctrine. Covenants, I love this tie- in here. In section 43, we're talking about other people trying to take the place of Joseph

Smith and being able to teach and make sure that we understand doctrine section 43. I'll just read that really quick. I love this because there is so much deception that's happening at the early days of this church in the state and try to get himself in. But in 43 verse three, where the Lord we've had this Mrs. Hubble, we call her Mrs. Hubble trouble in the past, we've had Hiram Page with the rock. And the Lord is establishing a church and he says, and this, you shall know, assuredly, that there is none other appointed unto

you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken if he abide in me. There is none other. The prophet has the burden of being the spokesman for God. And I think in Malachi, that is part of this burden that he's expressing. The Lord loves you. And my responsibility is to tell you no matter how right and how justified you think you are, I have to speak for the Lord here. And it is a burden. You guys probably remember President Nelson when he came to BYU a few years ago, and he talked about all the truths that the students needed to know. I mean, that Mary at center was packed

and he gave that talk on law and love. Yeah. And he gave these truths. And I love this where he says, truth number one is you are sons and daughters of God. I mean, this is a prophet speaking to young adults. Truth number two, truth is truth. Truth number three, God loves every one of us

with perfect love. And then tying into this verse, He says, truth number four, the Lord Jesus Christ whose church this is appoints prophets and apostles to communicate his love and teach his laws. And then he continues, sometimes we as leaders of the church are criticized for holding firm to the laws of God, defending the Savior's doctrine and resisting the social pressures of our day. But our commission, as our dand apostles, is to go into all the world to preach as gospel and to every creature. That means we are commanded to teach truth.

And doing so sometimes we are accused of being uncaring as we teach the Father's requirements for exaltation, the celestial kingdom. But wouldn't it be far more uncaring for us not to tell the truth, not to teach what God has revealed? And then it is precisely because we do care deeply about all of God's children that we proclaim his truth. We may not always tell people what they want to hear.

Profits are rarely popular, but we will always teach the truth. And then in that context, going back to Malachi, then he says in verse two, I have loved you, say, at the Lord. Like, that's the burden of the prophet, and then you may misunderstand, but God is love. And that's the whole beauty of, it's the law and love.

We're seeing this problem with law and love, and this real struggle that people are having, thinking that God is going to compromise his law to show him his love, and he's saying no. We need to learn to love like God does. Malachi will tell the truth, because he's speaking for God who is, I love that burden, but as a heavy burden that leaders of the Church are always given from the

days of Adam and Eve. Do you know what Rhyme of another example is in the book Mormon where Jacob says, I'm way down about what I have to talk to you about today. Some of you have come up here to hear the pleasing word of God which he let the wounded soul and instead I Have to prove you in front of your wives and your children and place daggers in their mind But that was the burden and he didn't shy away from that He told him like it was a elder Christopherson gave a talk in 2015 called why the church? I took that apart and put bullet points on every reason why we need a church and I took that apart and put bullet points on every reason why we need a church and

One of them was to be in a position to be approved of sin and error and It's wonderful to be able to know I will have a bishop. I will have a prophet I will have church leaders who can say Don't do this or you need to stop doing this or you need to be warned against this and not worry about whether They're being popular or not. Yeah. Okay, so we're looking at Malachi too now and we're talking about the heart again. So this idea of the heart is critical. I don't know that we realize that that term heart is used over a thousand times in the

scriptures just heart and what that means. And it's typically when we're talking about heart is typically being converted and a covenant keeping people. So he's talking about the heart and he's talking about people really being converted, not just in their mind, but really giving themselves 100% to the Lord. Then he's talking about this covenant that he made with Levi and he's talking about the covenant that has been broken. That actually brings us back to section 84, the doctrine of covenants.

Or in section 84, we see that Moses was given this priesthood, and the Lord was trying to get him to be able to bring his people and to the Lord and to enter into his rest, but they refused. So we're talking about this covenant, and we're talking about specifically these people who receive, and it talks about this in verse 26, and the Leicester priesthood continued, which priesthood hold at the key of the ministering of angels and the Preparatory Gospel.

But before this, Moses is trying to get his people to receive the power of Godliness. He's trying to get them to receive the key of the knowledge of God. He's trying to help them to make these ordinances. Here we're seeing that this covenant is being broken and he's referring in the sense to this days of Moses. He's talking about the priests and how the priests really their responsibility is to teach knowledge and to teach this law and be examples of this law. I think about our day and the role of priests, but not just priests. The Lord has said in our day, we need everyone. And specifically, we've heard women, the call from President Nelson to women to speak up and speak out regarding

the truth and to be those who have the priesthood authority that has been given to both women and men through one who has priesthood keys and then the covenants that we have made with the temple to be those who are righteous leaders of the church and be these examples. And then we've been asked by the prophets more so in our day than ever before to speak and teach and be examples of the covenants and especially the temple. So we have many talks recently, where we have elder Bednar and President Oaks, President Nelson, and women leaders of the church trying to help us to understand the temple, the importance of the temple, and then speaking openly about it. That's been a huge prophetic priority in the last few years. So, Barb, let me make sure I'm clear here. So in chapter two, these priests have corrupted

the covenant of Levi by not teaching truth. Their hearts are not in it. I think what they're trying to say is, in every day since the day of Adam, the Lord has tried to bring people into his presence. So we see that with Adam, we see that with Moses. We see that here with Malachi, he's trying to bring people into his presence.

This covenant that he's trying to make. He's talking about the people of Levi, their responsibility and their humility and bringing this forward. We see this then, especially with Moses, where he says, you are not keeping this and therefore you have lost this. You have lost this Abrahamic covenant. You have lost this ability to be with me. You have lost the higher order of the priesthood, which is the patriarchal order of the priesthood. Because you're not willing to keep this covenant, these things are lost. And then he's saying to them, as priests, you are not doing this.

And because of that, you are being kept away. It says in verse 9, you're partial in the law. You're not willing to go all the way up. You're not willing again to be able to give it all. You have lost the ability to be, and it's been talked about this here in the future, you've lost the ability to be sealed for eternity with your spouse. You're making a mockery of the covenants that you have made, especially when it comes to marriage and family. And because of that, you are not going to be able to have this eternal life. It's not funny to the Lord. And that's what happens in section 84 as well.

The Lord is explaining to Joseph Smith in this case, Moses was not, his people were not obedient. The patriarchal order of the priest had been passed down from generation to generation from the prophets and because the people were not willing to be obedient, they also lost this covenant. They lost this ability to enter into the presence of the Lord. And as we see in section 132 of the doctrine of covenants, we enter into this presence of the Lord through marriage. Then you see this very part at the end where he's talking about your cutoff from the Lord because you are marrying outside of the covenant and your cutoff from the Lord because you are taking lightly the covenants you have made with God and you're

divorcing your wives for seemingly very petty reasons. And that's kind of what he's saying here. It's all about this covenant. It's about eternal life. It's about helping people come into Christ and become like him. It's this is very temple. So this is these are temple covenants. This is temples from analogy. It's about families. It's about the sacred covenant between a husband and wife and becoming eternal parents, that they're mocking.

And you can see that he is not happy. Man, that really makes that chapter one, verse two question. When have you loved us so heart-wrenching when you find out what's been going on? They could have had all these blessings, but they are, like you said, they're cutting corners, and not only that, the priests are taking part in this, and they're breaking hearts. They're dealing treacherously with the wife of their youth, the wives of their youth, they're divorcing for seemingly petty reasons. Wow. No wonder Malachi says this is a burden to share. Yeah.

I think in our days sometimes we especially because of our culture and things don't understand the seriousness and the covenant we make regarding marriage. You know you go through the history of Joseph Smith and he's told that eventually Elijah will come and he's going to restore this priesthood. And then we continue on through the doctrine and covenants and we start seeing that the church is being restored. But eventually you get to about section 36, 38. We start hearing about the temple.

But eventually as you get to section 84 and then 95 and then section 110, you start seeing the keys being revealed in the Kirtland temple. And then it culminates with section 132 with celestial marriage and what they're going to be receiving. And then you get into later sections that are gonna come along. But it is this line upon line teaching to Joseph Smith from the Lord about the importance

of the temple and about the importance of marriage. And I think it's significant right in the middle of the last book of the Old Testament, the Lord is saying, marriage and covenants regarding husband and wife and families are critical and you are mocking it. As much as you are mocking me, you cannot mock marriage without mocking Christ and you cannot mock Christ without mocking marriage. You have to have them both.

If you are making a mock of either, you're destroying the purposes of God. Yeah. We laugh about marriage and we have a lot of stories and we all have stories about marriage and things that we can do to make it better, but it comes right down to a marriage is very serious to the Lord. That relationship between a husband and wife is critical to him. When you talked about chapter 2 verse 9, it made me think of this quote from Larry W. Gibbons. We're back in 2006, but I still remember it. He quotes both Elder Maxwell and Mary and G. Romney. He said, Elder Nilei Maxwell spoke and expressed this thought that bidding babble on farewell is actually one of our challenges that too many of us

like to keep a summer cottage there. We cannot keep one foot in the church and one foot in the world. One reason is the world and the church are rapidly diverging. We'll lose our balance." And then he quotes Mary and G. Romney, which is just a beautiful quote. He said, we know that no man can serve two masters. Some I fear are attempting to do what President Mary and G. Romney described as trying to serve the Lord without offending the devil. You have been partial in the law.

You've had one foot in, but not the other. Yeah, this is a touchy subject for a lot of people. I mean, even as a religion professor, I have students asking all the time, as I teach the eternal family classes, is it okay to be dating somebody out of the church? Is it okay to be marrying somebody outside of the temple? And my answer is always, what is the purpose of life? What is the desire

from our Heavenly Parents to us? Why are we even here? It's to become like them. And that doesn't mean that you can't date necessarily other people by their faiths. There are many people who have married people by their faiths and have ended up with that person making covenants with the Lord. And I would imagine they will have eternal life will let the Lord decide on that of course There are many people who are members of the church who are marrying in the faith But who are not covenant keeping people and who think that just because they marry in the temple they're going to have eternal life I am a kind of a polyanna. I kind of hope all of us will make it no matter what but the reality is the Lord saying I have a law and you need to obey it

I do believe that you can marry outside of the law, but I think you have to be extremely careful in our day. You have to do so knowing that the only way we are going to have eternal life is if a man and a woman make a covenant with God and they keep their covenants. And that's why it's so dangerous. And again, it's not that anybody is perfect. None of us are perfect, but that we are trying to do that. But if we don't understand the covenants and we're just simply saying, I will do my way, my way and not the way and my way is higher than your way and not the Lord's way. And we decide that what we do is right, not the Lord's were falling into this trap. We're being deceived. It's such a hard topic. This idea is very difficult. And the same thing with the

force, there are reasons that people need to be divorced, especially in terms of abuse of some sort of person being majorly degraded. But in our day and age, it is so easy to just say I'm done for selfish reasons. And that's where we really have a problem is people not willing to pay that price. Or not even to marry in our day, just to kind of live together and not even make a covenant at all. I've always had a question about this. If the Melchizedate priesthood was taken post Moses or during the time of Moses, what kind of marriages were even possible for them? Were they still sealed in the same way? They couldn't enter into the highest order of the Melchizedate priesthood, which is the patriarchal

order of the priesthood. I don't know exactly how those marriages were performed with that meant, but they wouldn't have been sealed for eternity because they couldn't enter into that order. There are exceptions that it talks about some of the prophets, Elijah being one of them, but for those people living at a time that wasn't even a possibility because they didn't have that order of the priesthood there.

Forgive me for digressing, but when Jesus was approached by the Sadducees and hey, there was among, you know, with us, probably another Sadducee, a man who died in his six brothers married this woman whose will her husband be. So it sounds like they thought it would be somebody. In Jesus' time, nobody had the chance to be sealed the way we understand today. Is that right? Well, we have to be careful because then Elijah, as we know, he's talking about Elijah coming back in chapter four, Elijah is also going to come

to the Mount of Transfiguration and he's going to restore these keys to Peter, James, and John. That's part of what happens at Mount Transfiguration. These keys make it possible for the ceiling to take place for them. And of course, Christ has these keys. They are his keys in the first place, so he can perform these ceilings as well. And I figured if the 12 all had the Melchizedic priesthood, I always thought, how did people in Jesus' time have the chance to have a ceiling the way we have it today? And I guess it was only those who received the Melchizedic priesthood or were able to go through that ordinance in the temple. And the temple wasn't even, it was kind of an eronic priesthood temple in Jesus'

time. And it was halfway apostate anyway. Right, however, it is important to remember that because of Elijah's return and amount of transfiguration, they received their endowment and they received keys so they were able to perform those ordinances, no question. The prophets of New Testament don't talk about a lot because they are establishing Christ's church on the earth and typically when we're talking about the highest order the Malkizadic priest We're talking patriarchal order. We're talking old testament Joseph Smith is receiving both the old testament church the old testament which is gonna be temple and the new testament

Which is going to be the church itself If that makes sense. So what we see typically in the new testament is the ecclesiastical administrative structure of the church that Christ built when he was on the earth. There's not as much mention there of the temple, but he clearly has those keys and they have been restored through Elijah, Peter, James, and John. But I think what we see in the New Testament is really Christ establishing the Kingdom of God on the earth according to his church. Elder Maconkey says that Christ had to establish his church on the earth in the time of Jesus

in a different way than he did during the time of Adam and Eve because during Adam and Eve it was a family organization government set up by the time Christ came it was more of a political setup. And so we had to change the structure of the church. But yes, they would have had those keys. I mean Christ himself and those keys belong to him. So he had the ability to do so and his first presidency in quorum of the 12 received that ability through Elijah. He had the ability to do so and his first Presidency in Quarming the 12 received that ability through Elijah. So they must have had the chance to have an eternal ceiling the way we would understand it now. Absolutely. Yeah.

As I was reading the end of chapter two of Malachi, I was confused at what was happening. I didn't have Barb to explain it to me. So I went to the new living translation of the Bible and it says the exact same thing you're saying here, Barb. It says, Judah has been unfaithful, and a detestable thing has been done in Israel and in Jerusalem. The men of Judah have defiled the Lord's beloved sanctuary by marrying women who worship idols. May the Lord cut off from the nation of Israel every last man who has done this, and yet brings an offering to the Lord. Here is another thing you do. You cover the Lord's altar with tears, weeping and groaning,

because he pays no attention to your offerings and doesn't accept them with pleasure. You cry out, why doesn't the Lord accept my worship? I'll tell you why, because the Lord witnessed the vows you and your wife made when you were young, but you have been unfaithful to her. Though she remained your faithful partner, the wife of your marriage vows. Didn't the Lord make you one with your wife in body and spirit? You are his. And what does he want?

Godly children from your union, so guard your heart, remain loyal to the wife of your youth. And all of a sudden, I'm seeing what you saw here, Barb, is a detestable thing that they were doing. Again, it is Satan trying to destroy families. I mean, if Satan is going to try to destroy one thing in our day and age, at any time, it's what he wants more desperately than anything

and it's an eternal united, oneness relationship that only our heavenly parents have with each other and with their children. And Satan cannot have it, he chose to rebel. And the of all the things that he wants to destroy, it's the family. And if he can make a husband or a wife, and it goes both ways, if he can make either of them break their covenants, if he can make either of them forget how important the other person is, if he can compromise their selfishness and make them be selfish in any way, to the point especially where they're willing to break their covenants, he wins in a way. And he will,

as we've been told, when Satan wins, he seems to feel like he has more power when our Heavenly Father wins, we have more power. And God wants to endow us with his power. He wants us to become like he is. He wants us to become eternal heavenly parents. And that that's why these these verses description I believe right in the middle of this last book are so critical. He is saying this is what I want for you. I want eternal families and you are making a mock of what is so sacred. And you cannot forget. Just the church website on divorce says when men, when men and women marry, they make solemn covenants with each other and with God. Every effort should be made to keep these covenants and preserve marriage. I just want to say that at every effort, again, it's not this 99% effort that he's so concerned about in chapter one. It's not

that I'm going to give everything except for what really hurts. I'm going to give everything except my temper. I'm going to give up everything except for my desire to have a lot of money. I'm going to give everything up except for my pride. They're saying every effort should be made to keep these covenants and preserve marriage. When divorce occurs, individuals have the obligation to forgive, lift, and help rather than thicken them. And then the sanctity of marriage and families is taught repeatedly in the scriptures. It has been reaffirmed by modern prophets and apostles. And I would say every scripture that we have, every book of scripture is a scripture about family, New Testament. It's about family, Old Testament. It's about family, doctrine,

covenants. It's the family. These are all eternal families that we're discussing. And the Lord is trying to teach us how to have an eternal family. And Satan is trying to destroy it. Again, this is the end of the Old Testament, the destruction of the family if we aren't careful. It seems that this metaphor we've been reading about the past, many chapters about the Savior being the bridegroom and the church or his people, the bride, it just makes me want to make that leap. Well, doesn't it seem then that that metaphor of marriage is so strong? How can you not believe that our marriages are going to go on in the next life, that they're eternal? That's the one metaphor they choose. That's the one metaphor they would choose. Well, of course, then our marriage means something because Jesus is using that example

so often, so that our marriages, or it won't mean something. It's so strange that much of the world believes that no, we're separated after this life. And I think the common explanation is, well, we don't know what it will be like, but I guess it'll be something better. And I just want to throw out this just because of my own sensitivity to this issue. Yeah. Again, having not been married until I was 40, but also having dear friends that still are not married and the reality of the pain that's associated with that, he's not talking about that here, that's not the conversation,

but just for sensitivity to the need to understand that every person will have the opportunity and the blessing of having eternal family, whether they are able to have one on this earth or not, and just recognizing that this covenant that they're discussing here is an eternal covenant, which is partially why it's so extremely important that we keep it, but will every individual will have the chance to eternity? It's a matter of

our desires to be obedient to the covenant of God. And that's where our opportunities will come in the future is by our motivation. Are we desiring to keep the covenant? And sometimes people, you know, I get the question, but what if I don't have the desire to marry? What if I don't have the desire to have what the Lord is asking to have here? And I say, my constant reminder is, but do you have the desire to keep the covenants of God? Because if your desire is to still be a covenant-keeping person, 100%, then you'll have all the blessings that God has promised. Even if you can't make that covenant today, you'll be blessed because of the covenant in the future. Only God knows what that means.

Barbara, when King Benjamin talks about when you're approached by the beggar and you don't have, but he says, I would that you would say in your heart. Now, this is, I want the state of your heart to be if I had I would give. That helped me when I was single, wanted to be married and wasn't, because I knew that the Lord knew I want that. I'm having a hard time making it happen by myself, but I want that. And I knew that desire would be counted for something. Amen. I hope that's what you're trying to say there. I can back you up. Absolutely. Yeah. So Barb, they are bringing in polluted sacrifices. The priests are in on it. They are divorcing their wives and marrying women who don't worship Jehovah. Please tell me they're not doing anything else.

Are they doing more wrong? Is the Lord going to keep going in chapter three? What else have these people been doing wrong? I think that there is some reality of what they continue to do wrong. I think the biggest problem that I'm seeing is that they do not understand their complete dependence on the Lord. They just don't get it. They think somehow that they're going to do it by themselves. Even the question, we see this, and we probably come back to it, but just the question in verse 8 that is so famous, will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me, but you say, we're in, have we robbed the, and then he says, in tides and offerings, and I would say, that's the tides and offerings is a symbol of everything else they have robbed. They aren't willing

to give it all. It doesn't matter what it is. In this case, he says tides and offerings, but clearly, we see him in chapters one and two that they're holding a lot back. But I think part of the frustration for the Lord is, he wants so bad to bless them. I mean, this is the house of Israel, the children of Israel, and they will not allow him to give all of the love he has to give them because he isn't God of principle. He wants so bad to bless, but if they aren't using their agency, he can't break his own law. And they aren't willing to pay their tithing, and he can't bless them with the windows of heaven, as he says. But if they would, he'd says he wants to pour out the blessings that there shall not be room enough to receive it. I mean, he wants to just soak them in blessings, but they refuse.

They refuse. So yeah, I think we continue to see some of this wickedness. But I also love, in verse 1 and 2, where he's talking about Christ again, coming to his temple, this is a major theme, the messenger of the covenant, then in verse 2, but who may abide the day of his coming and who shall stand when he appears, for he is like a refiner's fire and like a fuller soap. I love that idea of the fire and the soap, both being cleansing agents. And when Christ comes, he is going to cleanse not just his temple, but he is going to cleanse his people and he is going to help them.

He is going to refine them as a purifier does and for the wicked it will be hard and for the righteous. It will be beautiful. But it's that repentance that Christ comes with the intention of healing and with the intention of cleaning and he's going to come to us people? Our Father and Heaven and Jesus Christ want so bad to just show us His love. Even with all of this wickedness he's coming with the intention of helping them, even then as a purifier and as a healer. But they have to want it. They have to be willing to be cleansed. I'm writing this in. He is coming to cleanse, not just his temple, but his people.

It's John 3.16, which we all know, it's for God to love the world that he sent his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life, and then he sent not his son into the world to condemn the world, but that through him the world might be saved. He's sending his son to save them, to cleanse them, to love them, they're mocking it, but he's not gonna let go.

He is still gonna come. He's gonna cleanse them and every new will bow and every tungal confess that Jesus is the Christ period. So even now in their wickedness, he still commits that he is going to send or that Jesus Christ himself is going to come and he is going to cleanse them. And it's going to be hard, but he's not going to give up on him.

He says that he will purify them as gold and silver. Those are valuable things. He still sees them as valuable after all they've done. Yep. And then verse six, I am the Lord. I change not. He isn't going to give up on him. He is going to continue on. He's not going to change. He will purify. He will cleanse. The commitment, his promise is there. He has made the promise and he's going to follow through. And it's really up to us. But his intentions are 100% to give us and to give them all that he has. But it's us that holds back. And that's where he's coming into this is, when you rob me, it's not me holding back. I've given you everything. You refuse to be blessed.

That's the robbing of God. You're refusing. You don't even understand that you're robbing of me is really hurting you. I want to bless you, but you won't let me. We so often talk about life being a test. And Elder Bednar mentioned in a talk recently that the scriptures never use the word test. They use proof and

Try and what's so fun here is it's not I'm proving you it the Lord saying prove me try me Prove me now here with and then that just poetry. I will open you the windows of heaven. Wow He's asking them to test him which is kind of a fun reversal of things that of us getting tested He's saying test me on this and see what I'll do. Please join us for part two of this podcast. you