Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Matt 13; Luke 8; 13 Part 1 • Dr. Daniel Becerra • Mar. 20 - Mar. 26

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

How can riches deceive us? Dr. Daniel Becerra explores the Parable of the Wheat and Tares and examines the themes of the Kingdom of Heaven in Luke and Matthew. Dr. Becerra also examines the role of Jesus’s family and women in his discipleship.00:00 Part 1–Dr. Daniel Becerra00:51 Introduction of Dr. Daniel Becerra02:36 Parables in Luke 8 and maternal imagery in Luke 1303:58 Kingdom of Heaven05:13 Jesus and his family 06:24 Women and Jesus’s ministry07:56 Jesus actually spoke in parables and names vary09:30 Parables and parabolas11:15 Why parables?13:20 Four Keys 17:10 Mustard Seed and Parable of Leaven21:22 Parable of the Net and Parable of the Wheat and Tares32:10 Spiritual sprinters33:46 Opposition in gardening and life36:28 Worldliness and worry40:40 Evidence money doesn’t solve all our problems41:50 Be Happy: Simple Secrets to a Happier Life by Hank Smith43:19 How do riches deceive us?44:52 Good ground and good fruit50:11 Jesus encourages followers to listen52:59 Parable of the Treasures54:56 End of Part I- Dr. Daniel BecerraShow Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.coFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-piano

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith and I'm John by the way. We love to learn, we love to laugh, we want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. Hello my friends, welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith, I'm your host. I'm here with my parabolic co-host, John, by the way.

Is that geometry? Yeah, parabolic. It can be talking about geometry. I look this up to make sure I was going to use this right. It can be like a parabola or it's expressed in parables. Guess what we're talking about today, John? Parables. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to be talking about some of the parables of Jesus today. And we needed a Bible expert to join us. Who's with us? We have Daniel Biserra with us. And you're going to love

this bio. Daniel Biserra is a scholar of early Christianity, holds secondary specialties in New Testament and Greco-Roman philosophy. We had a Greco-Roman wrestler on once, but this is Greco-Roman philosophy. You received a PhD in early Christianity and an MA in religious studies from Duke University, an MTS in New Testament early Christianity from Harvard Divinity School. We talked briefly beforehand about David Holland, elder Holland son, who was there, and to be an ancient Near Eastern studies from Brigham Hill University, his primary research interests concern moral formation

and late antiquity, second through seven centuries, particularly within Christian aesthetic context. He also researches topics relating to theology and ethics in the Book of Mormon. So I love reading the Biles of People and seeing how wide-ranging our scholars are. So we're really happy to have you, a brother of Basera, thanks for joining us today.

How would it be here? Thanks for inviting me. Dr. Basera is my friend Daniel. So if it's okay, we're gonna call you Daniel. But we know you earned the term doctor. Yeah. But we're grateful that we have you. I've been looking forward to this.

John Daniel is as good as a man as they come. We're just about four down four offices away from each other at BYU and his doors always open and he's so kind to me. So he says kind as he is brilliant. I think we're going to have a great day today. Daniel, how do we want to start this? I was looking to come follow me, manual. We're going to be in Matthew 13, and then in the Gospel of Luke as well, chapter 8 and chapter 13. So we're going to kind of hand the reins over to you and say, hey, where do you want to go? And I'm sure John and I will have something to say along the way. Well, there's a few things I want to accomplish today. First of all, I'm hoping we can kind of work through the text and get a sense for what's happening and why it might be

an important for us. I'm planning on spending the majority of the time on Jesus' parables and explore hopefully some different ways to engage with him productively. We'll take a look at a few of Jesus' miracles and Luke 8 and then finish up with a bit of reflection on the maternal imagery that Jesus uses to describe himself in Luke 13. The good news is that there's a lot of overlap in these chapters so I'll stick primarily to Matthew and then bring in Luke where it differs. John, I might as well say this up front because we want to hear from you. You've written a book on parables, isn't that right? Did you say John? Yes, I did. And so did you, Hank. We love parables

and we love applying parables. And as we've often said on this show, there's the interpretation of scripture. And then there's the application of scripture. And with with parables it really allows us to do a lot of Application, doesn't it? We can have a lot of fun here. Yeah, this is gonna be great Just for the record. I'm the only one here that hasn't written a book on parables So I fully expect you guys to carry me if I need it All right, I've been described by others as parabolic even within the last few minutes I'm a parabola So I thought we can be beginning Matthew and kind of situate ourselves within the context few minutes. I'm a parabola. I'm a parabola.

So I thought we could begin in Matthew and kind of situate ourselves within the context of the larger gospel. As you guys may know, scholars frequently divide the gospel of Matthew into five different sections, each of which has a kind of narrative portion and discourse portion. So one half of each section, you have Jesus going from here to there and there to here doing these things and then the other half of that section he's preaching a sermon or something like that. The theme of the section that we are in today is some scholars say like the kingdom of heaven. This is Jesus's primary message in these chapters. So the narrative portion is chapters 11 through about 13 records. Jesus is preaching in miracles around

Galilee and then the discourse portion, which is 15, the entire chapter of 13 records, teachings about what he refers to as the kingdom of heaven. So the idea of the kingdom of heaven is really important to Jesus in Matthew. He references it about 32 times and he spends a significant amount of time and at 13 especially. In fact, Matthew is the only book

that talks about the kingdom of heaven, whereas the rest of the Bible refers to as the kingdom of God. Those terms seem to be synonymous, at least in my understanding. One value of understanding the kind of literary structure of the scriptures that we're going to be reading is that it can help us know what to look for and what questions Jesus is trying to answer. It can help us to be more informed interpreters of scripture, which is why I spent a little bit of time on that. And I think this is especially important for Matthew 13 because we get a lot of parables and of all the different genres of literature in the New Testament, parables are perhaps most conducive

to a variety of interpretations as both of you know and we'll talk about that in a second. So in terms of context where we are in the story, Matthew 13, Luke 8, they open up with Jesus ministering to people in every city and every village. He's apparently accompanied by his mother, his brothers, his 12 disciples, and his Luke tells us certain women which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities. Mary called Magdalene out of whom went seven devils and Joanna of the wife of Husa, Herod Stewart

and Susanna and many others which ministered unto him of their substance. Couple things I want to point out here. First is how much of a family affair this seems to have been. Like typically when we imagine Jesus A couple things I want to point out here. First is how much of a family affair this seems to have been. Typically when we imagine Jesus out during his ministry in art or just in our minds, we imagine him maybe either alone talking to a big group or with his apostles. But here we see he had a whole kind of entourage with him, family members, friends, apostles.

And I think it would have been nice to come home after a hard day of preaching and just have the support there of your loved ones I remember the day my daughter was baptized. I think it was during COVID and we had all of our family Skipping in and just seeing like the support there for her people from all different ages and walks of life Kind of with her in that and just like the support she felt So that's kind of the image I get just like this web and blanket of support for Jesus. And second, it's important to recognize how integral women were to his life in ministry. They were there at his birth, they were there at his crucifixion, they were the first to see him resurrected and testify that he lives. They were there all throughout his ministry. In this case, they seem to be

supporting him temporarily, whether it was financially or with meals or helping out with logistical things, but they were there in an integral part of his ministry And I think it's important that we point that out as well. Yeah, that's first three which ministered unto him of their substance Sounds like they're working hard. Yep So Matthew 13 it opens up Jesus goes outside He sits on the shores of the sea of Galilee Matthew doesn't tell us exactly why he went out there We do know from other passages that periodically Jesus often kind of seeks out solitude to go into the wilderness to be by himself, whether it's to pray or just collect himself.

So perhaps this is what's happening here. I have to imagine you'll sometimes he just felt maybe physically or emotionally exhausted and maybe just took some pleasure in taking some time to appreciate the beauty of his surroundings. And I don't know if you've ever been in the gallery, but just sitting on the shore of the sea there, I can imagine just kind of taking it in and into the spirit of his surroundings. And I don't know if you've ever in the gallery, but just sitting on the shore of the sea there, I can imagine just kind of taking a hint of the spirit of that place. Yeah, it's really nice. So he's sitting there. Matthew tells us, and great multitudes were gathered together to run to him. So they came and found him or maybe it was planned. So many so that he went into a ship and sat in the whole multitudes stood there at the shore

and he spaked many things to them in parables. Before we get into the parables themselves, I think it might be helpful to maybe provide a kind of brief introduction to what they are and you guys can correct me or add anything that I forget. Sounds good. We love that job, right John? Yeah. Yeah.

So, first important to recognize I think just how often Jesus actually spoke in parables in the New Testament like they are everywhere. People offer different lists of them, but if we were to kind of name all of them, there's quite a few. So this is a list compiled by a guy named Client's nod grass. He wrote a book called Stories with Intent, a Comprehensive Guide to the Parables of Jesus, and this is a really helpful book. So he lists 29 different parables.

I mean, here are some of the names, unforgiving servant, two deaders, last sheep, last coin, prodigal son, growing seed, wheat and tariff mustard seed, leaven, treasure, pearl, barren fig tree, two sons, wicked tenons, wedding banquet, two builders, good smerch, and work is invinured, tower builder, rich fool, and I mean, the list just goes on. So this is one of Jesus', if not the preferred method of teaching.

So I think it's important that we understand what they are and how they function, if we're gonna productively engage with them, right? Let me read just a little bit from the manuals. It begins in the same way. Some of the Savior's most memorable teachings were in the form of simple stories called parables. These were more than just interesting anecdotes about ordinary objects or events.

They contained profound truths about the kingdom of God for those who are spiritually prepared. One of the first parables, recorded in the New Testament, talks about the sower. And then he says, this is Jesus, for whosoever receives it to him shall be given and he shall have more abundance. So as we prepare to study the Savior's parables, or any of his teachings, a good place to start is to examine our hearts and determine whether we are giving the Word of God good ground. So they kind of introduce the idea of parables by using one of these first ones, parable disorder.

Yeah, excellent. And if we were to ask ourselves, I mean, you were mentioned in this earlier, what are some characteristics of parables? The word parable comes in the Greek word, pada bolé, which can also be translated as, this is where we get the English word, parabola. It can also be translated as juxtaposition or comparison or illustration or analogy. If you imagine a parabola or a parabola, it has two sides that mirror each other.

So we can imagine the text is the one side of the parabola, the meaning is the other. So there's a sense in which parabola's point beyond themselves. They gesture to something beyond what is on one side of them. They also tend to be short and memorable. They are fictitious stories, articulating truth. So they're not true and accurate in a historical sense, but they are intended to convey true principles.

And what I mean by that is there probably wasn't actually a good Samaritan who found a guy in the road. There probably wasn't actually a prodigal sign. And like these are invented characters in a story. They also tend to often contain multiple layers of meaning. Jesus isn't talking about a guy baking bread necessarily or traveling from Jerusalem to Yarko, right? There's something beyond this. The images that our found in

parables are typically drawn from common life, not our common life, but the common life of a person living in the first century, which is why some knowledge of the ancient world, I think, is important for interpreting them. And as we go through, I'll try to do my best to kind of fill in some of the gaps maybe as much as I can. Also, Parallels trend a challenge norms. Often time, what you would expect a character to do or what he or she might be justified in doing is not what he or she does.

And this is a significant part. When somebody says or does something out of the ordinary, this is typically the place to stop and meditate. It's like, what is the significance of this weird unexpected event? And putting those kind of characteristics aside, some New Testament scholars have kind of suggested different theories to explain how parables function by extension, how we might interpret them.

So let me just give you three theories, and then we'll get into the text itself. The first theory is that parables are intended to obscure truth, which is to say they're told with the intent that only insiders will be able to understand their meaning, those who have eyes to see in ears to hear. And this is essentially what Jesus says in Matthew 13, the disciples came and said to him, why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of

heaven, but to them it is not given. So there were certain things about the kingdom of heaven that Jesus felt some people weren't ready to hear for whatever reason. So parables are intended to obscure truth in some sense. But the second theory about parables is that they can teach many truths. They are a fountain of meaning if we have the tools to just dig down and find the spring

and sift out the dirt and rocks and collect the water. And I think most Latter-day Saints would be open to this idea, the idea that more can be revealed to us then is written on the page. So they obscure truth, they teach many truths. Some scholars will say that parables have only one meaning and that the author of the parable, Jesus or Matthew, they intended it to mean one thing and that's what it means. And if we get anything additional out of that,

that's great, but that's not what Jesus intended it to mean. Now, obviously, we don't have to accept any of these theories as binding or I don't actually think any single theory can account adequately for all Jesus' parables. But I do think they raised some important question relating to parable interpretation. Perhaps most pressing for us is, can parables mean anything? And if not, how do we determine what they mean? If we acknowledge that there is more things to learn that's on the page, are there boundaries around that? Can it just mean, is it just determine what they mean? If we acknowledge that there is more things to learn that's on the page, are there boundaries around that? Can it just mean is it just a free for all? So things we might consider as we go into these parables,

some tips for interpreting them responsibly, and then we'll get into the text. First, as with all things, we want to include the Holy Spirit in our reading of Scripture. As a revealer of truth, it's absolutely necessary. The Holy Spirit's not going to do all the work, but with his help, I think we can definitely work

better and more efficiently. Second, we can ask ourselves, does Jesus offer an explanation? Sometimes He does. The parable, the cellar, the parable, the wheat, these are two examples of when Jesus says, this is what I mean by this. So we have a pretty good sense of what to get out of it. When he's like, here's the answer key. Pretty straightforward. We can ask ourselves, what did it mean to them there then? We want to pay attention to original context, ask questions like, to whom was Jesus talking, why did he address this parable to them, what question or concern is it intended to address? Also some images and metaphors have rich meaning for people in Jesus' time, and they're not

that easy for us to recognize, living today in the 21st century. And this is why maybe a good study Bible or commentary can help us kind of bridge that cultural and historical gap. You guys are probably aware of the recent change in the general handbook of the church that said, and I'm quoting here, when possible members should use a preferred or church published edition of the Bible and church classes and meetings. And then it continues, this helps maintain clarity and discussion and consistent understanding of doctrine, and then it concludes other editions of the Bible, maybe useful for personal or academic study.

And I can't stress enough how useful study Bibles can be, how the Harper call and study Bible or the new Oxford Antated Bible. These are super helpful because they give you explanatory comments and the footnotes, and it's just easier to understand in my reading. Yeah. I personally use a little website called Bible Hub. Just gives me all sorts of translations. I know others have used blue letter Bible. It's an app, I think.

And those are helpful for looking at different English translations of the Bible, but if you want like historical notes saying, you know, what's a tear? Exactly. Oh, it's a little weed that looks like wheat when it's young, but it changes form when it's older and things like that. So absolutely. So in addition to asking what it meant to them there, then we could also ask what it can mean to me here now. How can I apply this to my life? What can modern revelation? How can modern relation complement my reading of the parable, etc. Three more things. Take notice of surprise details. Certain parables have shocking and unexpected

twists in the story that help us understand the point that Jesus was trying to make. And again, sometimes these are hard to identify because we're like, well, how much is this much yeast? Like, you're right. What's 10,000 talents? Yeah. I know exactly, right? Also, I think it's important to remember too that not every minor detail has significant meaning. Like, there's a point at which every metaphor breaks down. For me, it's helpful to think of parables as an arrow pointing to truth as opposed to a detailed sketch of reality. So the parable, the 10 virgins, for example, you have five airwis, five air foolish.

I think it would be wrong to conclude that exactly 50% of the earth or exactly 50% of the church are wise and foolish because of this. These are just images that kind of get the story going. Okay, last one. Typically, the ending of the parable is where we see the meaning articulated. It's where we see the moral of the story. The wheat and the taris, for example, Jesus says, and therefore the tar is gathered in and burned the fire in the fire, so it shall be at the end of this world. Okay, so this is key for unlocking it, so to speak. Maybe we can apply some of these to our reading of the parables in Matthew and Luke.

I mentioned before that Jesus is explicit goal in several of these parables is to explain to us audience what the kingdom of heaven is like. Okay, this is one of the questions that these parables answer. So regardless of any additional insights we get from them, Jesus clearly designed them to help us understand the kingdom of heaven.

So what I wanna do is this, I wanna reduce several parables out loud, two or three at a time, that describe what the kingdom of heaven is like. Jesus is an original audience, and as well as the earliest Christians after his death, they wouldn't likely have encountered these teachings in written form. They didn't have their own scriptures. Most of them probably couldn't read. So what they would do is they would gather together in house churches.

They didn't have like Basilica's or buildings or anything yet, and the gospels would be read to them. So they're encountered with the parables would be hourly. They would hear them. So in an effort to kind of recreate that, that's what I kind of want to do. So after each group of parables, I want you to tell me if you perceive any common themes in the parables that I read to you and what these themes might suggest about the kingdom of heaven. Does that make sense? Absolutely. And I also want to invite you to resist the tendency to define the kingdom of heaven before we actually get through the parables because

at least in my reading of this chapter, the kingdom of heaven has a broader meaning than we typically give it and by assuming that it equals the church or equals a celestial kingdom or something like that, it might limit our ability to understand everything that Jesus is trying to tell us. So first group, two parables, mustard seed and parable of the leaven. So common themes in what they might suggest about the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took and sodant his field, which indeed is the least of all seeds, but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and it becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge and the branches thereof.

Second parable, the leaven. The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till the hole was leavened. And just by way of some historical context, three measures of meal has about 50 pounds of flour, so it's enough for about a hundred loaves for one woman. So we have the mustard seed, we have the leaven. Because you notice anything they have in common, and if so, what if anything that might tell us about the kingdom of heaven, what do you think? Both start small and end up bigger than they were when they started.

small and end up bigger than they were when they started. Having more impact than you would think, something small has great impact. How'd I do? It's unrealized, but yeah. No, good. And again, there's not one answer to this, but I think that's great. I'm kind of nervous like I'm in class here.

Right, so both are things that grow from small to big. Small beginnings, great endings in terms of size. You have a very small mustard seed grows into it, you know, a five foot bush. You have a very small mustard seed grows into a five foot bush. You have this very small piece of yeast that leavens is enough for a hundred loaves. This unreasonable amount of flour for one person, this might be a place for us to reflect any significance to the abundance produced by this, you think?

It's way bigger than it started. Like if you compare a mustard seed to the tree, it's the tree is massive compared to the seed. So basically with the yeast, I mean, I don't know who's gonna eat, how many gloves of bread did you say? A hundred about. A hundred gloves of bread.

This is for a lot of people. Yeah, right, so just the abundance. It's more than we're ever going to need. So maybe the kingdom of heaven here, it's something that increases in size. It's something that we're ever going to need. So maybe the kingdom of heaven here. It's something that increases in size It's something that provides shelter and protection. You know, he mentioned the birds for example in the trees It provides a home and nourishment and abundance more nourishment than any single person could ever need So kind of these beautiful images

Okay, anything else we guys we would notice that you want to draw out there before I go to the second group Just the idea of growing and changing. I mean, it's small to big. We both said that, but the idea of growth is in both of them. We've also heard Levin used as a negative thing. And here it's a positive thing. Yeah. Good. All right.

Second group. So versus 44 to 46, this is a treasure hidden in the field and a pearl of great price. So the kingdom of heaven is likened to treasure hidden the field, the which when a man hath found, he hideth and for joy thereof, goeth and selleth all that he hath and buyeth that field, and then pearl of great price. The kingdom of heaven is likened to a merchant man seeking goodly pearls, who when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it. Okay, common themes, what they might say to us about the kingdom of heaven.

Value. Yeah. Both sell all that they have. Yeah, it's worth everything. Yeah. Excellent. So something to be valued, something to be sought after, something to be sacrificed for, rejoiced over,

maybe something that can be difficult to find. A little bit. Yeah. When he had found, when, probably, he was looking for it. Yeah. He was thinking exactly. The field is large, I assume. Treasure hidden a field.

The field is large and he's looking for a treasure. So, seems small compared to the field, but he's willing to buy the whole field just for. Yeah. I don't know if that actually means field, but he's willing to buy the whole field just for. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that means anything, but no, no. I mean, again, I think we hit it, you know, the kingdom of heaven. It's something that we have to put in some work to get. It's something to be sought after, to be valued, sacrifice for and rejoiced over when we find it. Okay, good. I'll reiterate all these at the end, but just try to get it all on the paper right now. All right,

third group, parable the net, parable the wheat and tears. So this is 47, 24 to 30, his wheat and tears, and then 47 to 50 is net. Okay, so the kingdom of heaven is likened to a net that was cast into the sea and gathered of every kind, which when it was full, they drew to shore and sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but the bad they cast away So it shall be at the end of the world the angel shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just And then the wheat and tears. So I'm doing this one from the NRSV translation just because I always for the life of me I can't get through the KJV without stumbling a bunch This is just in normal English that I can read better. Okay, we can tears. The kingdom of heaven may be compared to someone

who sowed good seed in his field. But while everybody was asleep, an enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and then went away. So when the plants came up in borgray and the weeds appeared as well. And the slaves of the householder came and said to him, master, did you not sow good seed in your field?

Where then did these weeds come from?" He answered, and enemy has done this. The slave said to him, Then do you want us to go after them? But he replied, no. For in gathering the weeds, you would uproot the wheat along with them. Let both of them grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time, I will tell the reapers collect the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned,

but gather the wheat into my barn. Okay. Themes between that and wheat and taris? Variety of plants, in one variety of fish, gathered of every kind there, and there's a sorting that is coming. Sounds like.

Yeah. That's what I noticed, that sorting at the end. Sever the wicked from among the just. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's what I noticed that sorting at the end sever the wicked from among the just yeah, yeah Excellent, so maybe some kind of a future event of sorting a place or time of reward punishment separation So if we're thinking in terms of the kingdom of heaven We might think something akin to the second coming or final judgment Jesus actually says this in several places that the kingdom of heaven is like an event He says a repent the kingdom of heaven is hand an event. He says repent. The kingdom of heaven is at hand, right?

It's coming soon. So in summary, we have Jesus speaking about the kingdom of heaven in the following ways. It increases in size. It provides shelter and protection and a home and nourishment and abundance. It's something to be valued, to be sought after, to be sacrificed for, to be rejoiced over, even though it's difficult to find sometimes. The kingdom of heaven implies a kind of sorting in which people are awarded according to their works, and it's a future event that is near. If we look elsewhere in Scripture 2, we see that the kingdom of heaven hasn't even brought her connotation.

So, for example, Luke 17, 20, and 21, Jesus says that the kingdom of God is something that exists within you, right? So it has another dimension as well. It's the actual people that consist of this thing, right? So my point here is that the kingdom of heaven is really multifaceted, right? It's very hard to define concisely, but if I think, but if I were to kind of draw out some prominent themes in Jesus' description of it, it would be this. The message of the kingdom is that God has a great work to accomplish and that He wants you to be a part of this great work. In doing so, this is where true joy and flourishing and purpose are to be found.

These parables, in a sense, offer an invitation to participate in something that grows from small to large and produces fruit in abundance. And it invites us to labor in such a way that brings joy and brings reward. So if I were to kind of concisely offer an interpretation of what the kingdom of heaven, the message of Jesus' parables here, it would be something like that. That was fantastic, Daniel. That's a lot of fun to put those together like that. It's awesome.

And I introduced that summary because this idea of accepting Christ's invitation appears elsewhere in our chapters, the outlier in Matthew 13 and Luke 8 is the parable this store. And the reason is it's an outlier, it's not explicitly linked to the Kingdom of Heaven, whereas the other parables are introduced, the Kingdom of Heaven is like. That's not how this parable is introduced. But it does have some same theme. You have a sky, he plants seeds in different places, and because of where the seeds fall,

some of them are more able to take root and produce fruit than others. The parable is also distinct in the sense that Jesus gives an interpretation of it. So he frames it as representative of the different responses of those who hear the words of the kingdom, of the responses of those who hear this invitation to come and participate in this work. So the message of the kingdom is preached to them and they respond differently. And he gives four different possible responses to the invitation to participate in this thing that grows from small to large, that brings joy, that bears fruit, that requires labor, et cetera. Okay, so the first

person, Matthew tells us, when anyone hears the word of the kingdom and doesn't understand it, then come with the wicked one and catch it the way that which was sewn in his heart. This is he which received this seed by the wayside. So this is Matthew 13 verse 19. Right. So here we obviously see the importance of understanding and helping others to understand the God's Word. Lack of understanding leaves a door open for Satan according to verse 19, right?

I think that's fairly straightforward, but it does get a little more complex as we go on verse 20 Let me do this in the NRS for you just because it's a little bit more clear as For what was sewn on rocky ground? This is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy Yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away. You'll notice that that translation cleans up a little bit of some of the more archaic language in the KJV. So for example, he that hearth the word and a non with it with joy receive it a non, I don't know what that means, but buy and buy and buy. These are both

from the same Greek word a who's which, which is immediately and notice first that this person doesn't just hear the word But he receives it so unlike the first guy the understanding seems to be there and something is happening even beyond this hearing and understanding They're also receiving the word translated as receive in this passage comes in the Greek word Lombano Which can also mean to lay hold of something in order to use it? We get a sense that the disposition or attitude that this person has towards the message. It's not just, I heard the words, it's not just, I cognitively comprehend what's going on. It's that I take this into me with the intent to do something with it and that's what makes a difference. There's an intent to apply, it's more active and this is

important because as we get to the person in whom the seed bears fruit, this active receiving like this is going to bring a prerequisite to that. Just as in the side, if any, if you guys are your listeners or interested in understanding better the range of meaning that different Greek words have, so the New Testament was originally written in Greek, translated into English. There's a website called netbible.org. It's free. And it's helpful because on the left column, there's the English translation of the New Testament or And it's helpful because on the left column, there's the English translation of the New Testament or the Old Testament. And on the right column, you can click the word Greek. And any word you hover over in English, it illuminates in Greek. And then

you click on the Greek word and it tells you all the different things that that Greek word can mean. So if you see a verb like he that receives the word, that's he and whom the fruit comes out. It's like, well, what does it mean to to receive exactly and you look up all the different things that that word received can mean And the meaning just explodes and you're like oh now I have a better sense for what Jesus was trying to convey when Matthew used this word So that's netbible.org Right got it. This is really good Mm-hmm And this is something I have my students do when we read Jesus commands that we should love our neighbor

It's like well, what exactly does it mean to love and we look up the word? We see that means welcome into communion and like Embrace and all these different connotations and we just kind of see oh this is all these things This word can mean and it gives us a better sense for what do I need to do and what exactly was Jesus thing? And then the problem with this person obviously is that he's unable to endure tribulation persecution, it offends him or causes him to stumble or fall away, right? Scandalism, so he's scandalized by it.

His problem is that he doesn't respond properly to tribulation and persecution. You guys have any thoughts on what the proper response is to that such that we don't fall away, that we don't stumble, that we're not scandalized. I've thought a lot about this one and what this might look like as I've been teaching it through the years. You're not hard-hearted.

You don't have this sidewalk. It's hard to grow a garden on the driveway. That's verse 19. This one isn't that way, but something is stopping the roots from going deep. I've thought before perhaps this could be someone who The gospel isn't going into their private life. Maybe it's in their public life. It's above ground It's really flourishing, but maybe inside it's not taking root. Oh Like a jaw close to me with your lips, but your hearts are far from me kind of thing something like that where Because it sounds like the word received means they really intended to do something with it jaw close to me with your lips, but your hearts are far from me. Kind of thing, something like that where,

because it sounds like the word received means they really intended to do something with it. So I don't want to put a bad motive on them, but something is stopping those roots from going deep because I noticed that the sun comes out and the sun should be good for the plant. The tribulation and persecution, if he has deep roots, the sun will be good, but the roots just aren't there. How do I do? Okay, I'm nervous.

I'm getting out of the deer or something. No, no, again, there's not a single answer. I mean, the value of this is that we can use them to explore different options. So one of the things that stuck out to me is like, Matthew uses the word A through store immediately, translated in the KGB as a non and by and by twice. He says, he has received it immediately. And then when persecution and opposition came, he fell away immediately. Do you think there's any correlation between the quickness with which he received the word and the quickness of his fall? Like, do you think maybe there's something there? Or am I just reading too much into it? John, what do you think? I'll let you try. You know, the thing I loved about this one is there's a couple of footnotes.

21b to Dr. and Covenant section 40 and 22a to section 39. And both of those are about this character in church history who comes and goes really quickly, Hank. And that's James. Oh, I remember him. Yeah, do you remember in the revelations in context? And it talks about he was all excited at first and then the cares of this world, it kind of names the weeds in verse 22, the weeds that are possible. You're moving ahead to the next one, John. Yeah,

I know. I know. I should do that. And again though, just to clear, like, I'm not looking for a specific answer, but these are the questions I have going into this. And like, I feel like part of the interpretation process is like, well, what about it's it's it's turning the kaleidoscope and say, well, what does it look like if we focus on these words? And as you were talking, this idea of a we all understand what's like to get super jazzed about the gospel. And then that fades, like when you get out of the fire sign, and you go back to take talk or whatever. And Elder Benar describes these people as kind of like spiritual spurs. I don't remember if you remember that talk. So let me read a quote from him. He says, a spiritual spurt is one who is

given to short bursts of spectacular effort followed by frequent and lengthy periods of rest. While a big spurt may appear to be impressive in the short run, steadiness and small things over time is far more effective and far less dangerous and produces far better results. Now, the question becomes, how do we translate this fire that we feel at the beginning into something that's lasting, into something that's enduring? This seems to be a problem, maybe that this guy has. He was super jazz, he accepted it with his whole heart, but not in a way that was lasting,

like not in a way that sustained him. That's kind of my read on it at least, yeah. Yeah, was that talk at the Women's Conference talk back in 2011? Yeah, I think so. Okay, we can put that on our show notes. Sounds good. So any other comments on that one

for Renewedman X person? I like the word received, and maybe I'm seeing more than is there, but when I think of a wedding reception, you're receiving guests, there's a receiving line, you're allowing it in. And it sounds like more than just the seeds happen to fall here, happen to fall there. Some received it. It's more active than passive. Also, in terms of like how one can avoid stumbling when these persecutions inevitably arise a few things

I would say. First, expect them as a consequence of your discipleship rather than as evidence of your unfaithfulness or the imperfection of God's plan. There's really more in Scripture that suggests disciples are going to go through some stuff than there is to say that discipleship means your life's going to be all peaches and be there are books called the suffering self because it's this idea that in the gospels, in the scriptures, to be a good person is to invite opposition and that's something we have to accept. That's probably not how you want to start a first discussion, but I mean it's a reality. Right, yeah, I do.

Isn't that perfect for the whole idea of a garden is opposition? There's gonna be weeds. Constant weeding opposition. There's going to be weeds. Constant weeding. There's going to need to be maintenance. The wind's going to come to reminding me of the hunger and thirst after righteous, and so, while plants hunger and thirst soon, and that has to be taking care of every day, or they get weak and they die. Yeah, exactly.

And just this idea to that, like, even in this opposition, that God doesn't expect it to endure it on our own. His whole plan is, in sending his son, is with the goal that he can help us when we need it, when we reach out to him. And we can see our oppositions and our persecutions as opportunities for intimacy with God. They can be technologies for having a closer relationship with him, if we respond in the right way, which unfortunately this person didn't, even though he's made up, so it doesn't matter. But yeah.

I think it comes back to the sun. He says later, because in the original parable, he said, when the sun was up, they were scorched, and because they had no root, they were there to way. So what you said there with my tribulations, the difficulty of being a disciple can leave me to Christ if I have the roots. Right, if the roots are in the sun. The sun's necessary, right? Yeah, it's good for the poor.

I'm glad you said roots, Hank, because roots take time, and that's the taking time element. You can get really excited about things right at first, but what will allow you to withstand the sun and the heat of the day in persecution is roots. And you can't rush that. to withstand the sun and the heat of the day and persecution is roots. And you can't rush that. Roots take time and they take continual nourishment, I guess, so maybe I'm going too far. But I like how often I've underlined roots

every time Jesus used it in the first part of the chapter and also in the interpretation. I think, hey, we gotta be rooted and grounded to use Paul's phrase, you know. Yeah, excellent. See, we're doing rooted and grounded to use Paul's phrase. You know? Yeah, excellent. See, we're doing it, guys. This is good. Yeah, this is how it's gonna be done, right?

And again, the John said, you know, I hope I'm not going too far or something like that. Like we recognize, like Jesus gives an interpretation of this, but at the same time, that could be a springboard for truth. It was downright parabolic there for a second. Right, nice job. You lived up to your name. All right, so the first guy doesn't understand,

that guy understands and receives, but no roots. Third guy, so this is verse 22, he also that received seed among the thorns, is he that here is the word and the care of this world and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word and becomeeth unfruitful. All right, so here he receives the world, but his care of the world is the problem. Now often in scripture, when we see this word world, we see it as having kind of a negative connotation.

We're not supposed to be of the world or worldly, or something like it. We equit it to sinful. I looked up all the instances of this in the book of Matthew, and Matthew doesn't seem to use the word in this sense. So what he seems to be saying here isn't like he's concerned with sinful things is just he has anxiety over or worries about life, making money, taking care of his family, just like normal stuff that we have

to do, which raises the question, what is the proper attitude to have towards the things that we need to be mindful of, but only to a certain degree? Like we all know we shouldn't be focusing on sin, but we are commanded to take care of our families. We're commanded to work. We're commanded to be healthy. But again, there's a line between when we go too far with that. So how do we interact with these cares in a way that's not going to lead us to not be fruitful, so to speak? It sounds like the answer comes out of the sermon on the Mount. Is that what you're thinking? Yeah. We had a podcast earlier, yeah, with Dr. Lilliannerson.

I think it was verse 34 of Matthew 6. Take therefore no worry for the Morrow. For the Morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Subficient unto the days, the evil thereof. So let me read that with the NRSV since I didn't understand what that meant. Okay. So do not worry about tomorrow for tomorrow. We'll bring worries of its own. Today's trouble is enough for today. Yeah. So it's almost a commandment there where the Savior is saying, look, worry is not going to help you in what I'm asking you to do. Being constantly anxious. No, I want to be obviously sensitive because some people I know deal with anxiety and they don't choose it. So I don't think that's what the Savior's talking about

is stopping so anxious. Oh, okay, thank you. That really helped everything. I hadn't thought of that. Yeah. But it really helps because you use that. NetBible.org, you will see. I have an old fashioned thing you guys just called a book and it's called the parallel. Yeah, using a website. You know, a whipper snapper. This parallel. Yeah, you young folks out there. It has eight Bible translations in a book. And King James is the only one that uses thought there. All the rest say worry. And in fact, footnote 25b says Greek for anxious concerns we're talking about. And so of course you're going to think about it, but I mean it sounds like the opposite of faith. Lord's telling us have some faith about this. It'll work out. What would somebody have to do for you to

say you're wearing too much? Because I mean obviously all of us are concerned about where our paychecks are we going to be able to take care of our pay or like what point is it too much? That's such a good question. And that's why I like the difference between thinking and worrying and thinking as something I can do something about right now. Worry could be worry for the future regret is concerned with the past but what can I do right now? And that's what I think that confusing phrase at the end sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof, is like, what? There's enough stuff today. Just think about that. Yeah, that in King James thrills me too. I would say also that he connects the care of this world and the deceitfulness of riches. To me, that's

easier to see. I'm a fan of what's called the contemporary English version just because it speaks my language. That's in my book too, Hank. It is. It says, the seeds that fell among the thorn bushes are also people who hear the message, but they start worrying and the needs of this life and are fooled by the desire to get rich. Maybe that's the point where it's gone too far is you've bought into this idea, bought in, that's funny. You've bought into this idea that your money is going to solve your problems. More money is going to solve your problems. Hank, I like that you said that. The money is going to solve your problems because I like to ask how a rich is deceitful

and that always is a fun discussion to have and you just hit one of them. If I had money, all my problems would be solved. Well, some of them might be, but how a rich is deceitful is an interesting discussion to have. I came across a book called Money for Nothing and it was about people who'd won the lottery in Michigan. And a bunch of these people said, they'd like one a million dollars and not everybody, but a number of them said, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. That's all I really think.

And one of them said, I made some investments. They went bad. I spent every day now with lawyers and lawsuits and it's the worst thing. Another couple said, people treat us differently and we went to the mom and pop grocery store they used to give us extra apples or oranges and now they don't and it was fascinating

to read these stories about, to me it was just put it under the heading of deceitfulness of riches. It was fascinating, but I think I could do better at it. Don't you think you could do better at it? You give me the million dollars, uh, right. If you're listening Michigan, I would say Lord, give me this mountain. I know. I know.

Hank, I know you have a bunch of funny quotations about happiness and wealth. Money doesn't buy happiness, but what, Hank? Yeah. Well, I wrote a book on happiness that sold dozens of copies mostly to my mom, but I did learn a lot about this. Money can really improve someone's life at poverty level. Money can really take someone out of those anxieties and those worries and put a roof over their head and give a medicine and food and really can make a difference But when you get up above a certain amount it really kind of levels off It doesn't impact your happiness at all and people have said before they just couldn't believe that that a person that makes a million dollars is

Same amount of happiness to someone who makes a hundred thousand dollars and I'm like I've had people say to me like those people Just don't know where to shop Or then I'd be unhappy in some really nice places. Right. You can look for happiness faster in a really nice car. Yeah. I'll be crying in my Ferrari then. Right. Right. I think what we're hitting here in verse 22 is an important thing to stop and think about. And care of this world. How do people see me?

How do I want to be seen? What's my reputation? What kind of vibe am I giving? Well, you know, all the image, you know, all that stuff could go under that heading too. So I love that Jesus not only talked about our heart, the soil is our heart, but some of the possible weeds, I think is a really good place to go. What are some of the possible

weeds that could crowd out the gospel being planted in me? Yeah. And back to your question about the riches too, like in what sense do they deceive us? There is this kind of seductive thing about riches, like the idea that oh, it's going to solve our problems or everybody wants to get rich or whatever. But there's a sense in it, which it can also pervert our sense of self, which is to say, you can deceive us into thinking that we're better than other people correspondingly can pervert us, deceive us into thinking that people are less than we are. The Zoroamites.

Yeah, you can distract us from what's most important. And they're tricking the sense that we tend to view them as our own, as opposed to gods. If you look in Mosiah, everything that you have belongs to God, right? We are not owners of our riches. We are stewards, and as such, we are accountable to God for what we do with those things. They're not ours to do what we want with them. There are to act as a steward over, and God is the master of them.

That's awesome. The only jokes gave a talk in April of 2015, General Conference called the parable of the Sower and he said, wherever we are in our spiritual journey, whatever our state of conversion, we are all tempted by this. Like that, he points that out. Like everyone is probably going to fall into this temptation. When attitudes or priorities are fixed on the acquisition, use or possession of property, we call that materialism. So much has been said, he said, and written about materialism, that little needs to be added here. Those who believe in what has been called the theology of prosperity

are suffering from the deceitfulness of riches. The possession of wealth or significant income is not a mark of heavenly favor, and their absence is not evidence of heavenly disfavor. He goes on to talk more about it. Some good clarifying comments. Yeah, excellent. Should go the final person. Yeah. Yeah, this is the one that works.

Yeah, so this is verse 23. He that received the seed into the good ground is he that hears the word and understands it, which also bears fruit and brings forth some 100 folds, some 60, and some 30. Okay, so obviously he's receiving it in a way that he understands it. He hears it, and one would assume he responds to opposition and temptations in a good way. Just to back up what you say, there's a little JST note, understand it, and it adds and endure it. So it doesn't just that he gets it, but he tries to live it and then endures. Right, right. So one thing that stuck out to me is the amounts of fruit and the

order in which they appear. Rhetorically, if you're trying to show that this guy was great, so he bore a lot of fruit, you probably go from small to large, but he goes, the people who do this, they understand they bear fruit, some bring forward 100, some 60 and some 30. So it goes in descending order. I don't know if I'm reading too much into that, but the people who do this, they understand they bear fruit, some bring forward 100, some 60, and some 30. So it goes in descending order. I don't know if I'm reading too much into that, but you think that's significant at all? Like, is it about bearing a lot of fruit or is it about something else? So to speak. That's fascinating, that it does go in reverse order. It always reminds me of other parables like the talents that they brought forth a different amount, and that was okay.

I was going to ask you that actually today if there's any symbolic meaning in those numbers or that there's three numbers that these are like kingdoms of glory or something. I mean, I've heard all sorts of things. Yeah, yeah. We don't have the Savior's tone, but I suspect, and I wish I could hear him tell the story in English, by the way, that would be helpful. But I wonder if he says some hundredfold, some 60, some 30, right? Or if he says some hundredfold, some 60, some 30, as if there's no difference between the three I just like that it's bringing forth fruit. Some bore apples, some bore oranges, some bore celery, like as if there's no qualitative for it.

And that's kind of where I'm coming from. Like it's less about the amount and more about the difference. Like we all respond differently to the call of the gospel and bear different fruit and that's okay. Jesus doesn't say that the more fruit, the better. He doesn't say that, yeah. Yeah, you're gonna bear different fruit.

Summer, you're gonna do 100, some of you new 60, some of you gonna do 30. And that's fine. They're all good. Yeah. The important part is that they received it and understood it and endured. And the fruit came.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's kind of a beautiful message to this idea that we're going to respond and we're going to bear different fruit. That's the plan. Like that's not our weakness that we don't bear as much as the other person.

Yeah. And maybe the principle there is don't compare. I wish I was more like my neighbors who do so much for the gospel. And I'm here just barely doing my gospel doctrine calling trying to try to keep up with a hundred of folds across the street. They're right. Yeah. And it can be a certain time of your life.

I've thought before there's time where you can't give everything all your time and energy. So you might be 30 now. Maybe sometime in your life you're going to be 100. Maybe sometime in your life you're going to be 60. There's different time of life that could correspond to the amount of fruit. All right, so in summary, Jesus has kind of given us a model for an ideal response to hearing his work, to hearing the message of the kingdom. We listen, we understand, we receive it thoughtfully

and deliberately and informedly with the intent to apply it. We don't allow things to distract us from it. We acknowledge that the fruits of our engagement with the gospel message will look different, and that's okay. And I think this is kind of one message we might reasonably derive from these parables. Absolutely. I had my students at BYU saying, let's check our own heart. Let's not look around

and go, well, they're a rocky soil. All that, guys, definitely a weedy soil. Check your own heart. If you need to remove some rocks or move some rocks, if you need to get rid of some weeds, I've asked my students, what app did you delete? Because it took too much of your time and I've got all sorts of answers. Instagram and- Hey, this candy isn't going to crush itself, thank you. Yeah. Yesterday, when I asked this question, it was Clash Royale.

So many said, oh, yeah, it just took all my time. So they were weeding their own life. And I think that's what if you look at yourself That can be really helpful. If you look at others This probably I don't think maybe that's the point of the parable is to say well John has a hard heart I'm sure glad I'm good. No, I kind of do it makes me sad because the hard ground is called the by the wayside and it just makes me Metaphor right in there. Yeah, the Lord threw that in there just for you to know.

Can I add something about this is that we commonly call it the parable of the sower, elder Talmage, elder Maconkey who called it the parable of the four kinds of soil, which kind of is more what it's about. They're not really the sower. He comes and goes, but it's the four kinds of soil where it lands. And like you're saying, each of us has to say, I think I've heard Elder Bruce C. Haifin, who's been on the podcast, call it our heartland, which I thought was a cool way to put it. It's our heart and it's land. This is about the four different types of heartland. And maybe we

need to get rocks out. Maybe we need to get weeds out and prepare for planting better. Yeah, excellent. So moving on through the story, Jesus certainly recognizes that there will be people who don't understand what he's saying because of the way he's saying it in parables. And in fact, again, as we mentioned earlier, that's part of the point. But he also suggests that his intent is to not keep them in ignorance. Like, it's not that, oh, you guys don't understand. So you're not going to get this, right? Rather, it's encouraging to learn how to listen. He says in Luke 8, 16 to 18, and I'm reading the NRSV again, no one

after lighting a lamp hides it under a jar or puts it under a bed, but puts it on a lampstand so that those who enter may see the light for nothing is hidden. That will not be disclosed. And he says this right after he gives a bunch of hidden stuff. Nor is anything secret that will not become known and come to light. So pay attention or then pay attention to how you listen. And the reason I say this is because it can seem

kind of like counterintuitive that, or just like if we were to ask why Jesus gives parables, one of the reasons likely wouldn't be, oh, he wants to hide stuff from people. Like Jesus doesn't seem like the kind of, he wants to hide stuff from people. Like Jesus doesn't seem like the kind of guy who wants to hide truth from people. And I think this verse allows us to see what his intent is here.

It's like, well, maybe the fact that you don't understand this, it should spur or spark your desire to learn differently. It should spark your desire to want to know more. Nothing I'm saying that is not going to be made clear at some point, but you have to learn how to listen. Do you know what I love about that? Is he gave the parable of the sower and immediately it doesn't sound like everybody, but the disciples came and said, why are you speaking in parables? And they're the ones who got to hear the interpretation. They got another level to it. And in verses Keri, the

Parable of the Sower in verse 18. And I've always found it interesting that Jesus quotes the calling of Isaiah in answer to why are you speaking in parables? Where that's verse 15, this people's heart is waxed gross. Their ears are dull of hearing their eyes, they have closed, lest at any time, and this, this phrase is just the gospel. They should see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. And I've noticed that that calling of Isaiah appears in every one of the

gospels and in the book of Acts. So it must have been something that they thought about a lot because it is, sounds like exactly what the Savior hopes will do with the Gospel. See what their eyes hear with their ears, understand with their heart, be converted and be healed, which is just kind of a beautiful way of putting it all. Yeah, excellent. So Jesus finishes up in chapter 13 by telling another parable. That's a bit more difficult to understand, but which the message seems to be that essentially it's important to recognize the authority of what God is real through Scripture and what God reveals through Christ.

And this is the parable of the treasures new and old and in 51 to 53. And then you have some people rejecting Him and Jesus saying, a prophet prophet is not without honor saved in his own country and in his own House, so he's having not as much success as he'd like among people who know him best who grew up with him and that kind of concludes in the parables there I love the reaction when's at this man wisdom He's like man, I changed your diapers like I know you because this Matthew's version of the Nazareth projection that Luke gives us so in Luke 4? Yeah. They were offended. Which is what he said would happen. Right? He becomes offended back in verse 21. Yeah, I think it's the same verb, scandal, lidzo. Yeah. Oh, wow.

Scandalist. That was interesting word. Say it again. Scandalizo. So scandalized or offended or their cause to stumble. Yeah. Please join us for part two of this podcast. you