Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Matthew 11-12; Luke 11 Part 1 • Dr. John Hilton III • Mar. 13 - Mar. 19

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

What brings us closer to Jesus Christ? Dr. John Hilton III explores finding Christ in media, using Fence Laws, and relying on the Savior.Teaching with the Chosen: https://johnhiltoniii.com/thechosen/���Seeking Jesus” with John Hilton III: https://johnhiltoniii.com/seekingjesus/00:00 Part 1–Dr. John Hilton III01:07 Introduction of Dr. John Hilton III02:23 Favorite movie depictions of Jesus06:38 Teaching with The Chosen07:34 The Jesus and John the Baptist connection09:10 John’s disciples11:26 Hope amidst trial for John, Joseph Smith, etc.14:54 “Seeking Jesus” with John Hilton III15:14 Robert Matthews on John the Baptist16:44 Fence Laws21:03 Jesus and Fence Laws23:27 Acts 15 parallel and Jesus and the Law vs tradition26:05 the danger of too many Fence Laws 29:13 Henry B. Eyring “Servants of the Lord”34:27 What draws us closer to Jesus Christ36:05 Dr. Hilton shares a personal story about Fence Laws38:42 For the Strength of Youth43:26  End of Part I- Dr. John Hilton IIIShow Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.coFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-piano

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith and I'm John by the way. We love to learn, we love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. Hello, my friends. Welcome to a new episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I'm your host, and I'm here with my co-host who I will describe this way. Among them that are born of women, they're hath not risen a greater co-host than John by the way. And I think of them that are born of women. That's a pretty high percentage, John. So you should feel wonderful about this description of you. My mom is right here on my desk, so she's saying thanks Hank. Well, I was actually reading in Matthew 11 and that's what Jesus says about John the Baptist,

of them that are born of women. There's no none greater than John the Baptist. We're going to spend a lot of time in Matthew 11, 12 today, and Luke 11. We needed an expert and a friend to join us. Who is it, John? We're really glad to have John Hilton III back with us again. And we have read his extensive bio. He sent me a nice short one to use today because everybody loves him and is familiar with him. John Hilton III is a professor in religious education at Brighamming University with degrees from Harvard and BYU. He's written many books including the founder of our piece

and considering the cross which we've talked about before in here. He loves snowboarding, performing magic tricks, sometimes at the same time. He's also the author of the podcast and free video course seeking Jesus, which we wholeheartedly love and support, which you can find by searching YouTube or your favorite podcast app. And John, tell us about your family one more time and then we'll start. My wife, Lonnie and I have six kids. Our oldest Levi is a 21.

He's at BYU, just off this mission in Georgia. And we have a daughter who's serving a mission in England and then we have four younger children Ranging between the ages of 9 and 18. Yeah, awesome. It's a full house Thank you so great to be here John Hilton the third. I always say he's so great. They made three of them. This is fantastic We love having you here John So Hank John I kind of want to start out with something that might seem like an unrelated question, but it'll tie in. What are your favorite movie or video depictions of Jesus Christ?

One of the first times I think in my life, I ever really kind of felt the spirit was with my parents watching Ben Hurr. Do you remember that movie? It takes about three weeks to watch it. I think it's four hours long or so. But they have a depiction of the sermon on the mount. They don't show Jesus's face. You just see this figure come walking out

and they just handle it so beautifully. And then also if you've seen the movie, you know that Judah, Ben Hur, the main character, the Charlton, Heston character, he is unjustly sent to the gallows and everything and he's in it. They're pulling the prisoners along, he's all chained up and he falls down and they say no water for him and he says he falls down and says God helped me, just whispers it and all of a sudden somebody starts giving him water and it's Jesus. He's in Nazareth and he starts giving him water and it is. That's one of my favorites but they don't even show his

face in that one. I think that's the first one I thought of but I know that there's lots. So what do you think, Hank? Well, since you went to the past, I'll go to the present. I really am loving this series called The Chosen. I'm sure both of you have seen this, but I find myself watching these episodes and move to tears frequently. I find it captivating. I just think it's wonderful. I agree. I love film depictions about Jesus, and one of my favorites is called The Gospel of John. You can find it for free on YouTube if you just search the gospel of John It's a three hour movie and it's word for word the gospel of John. Oh wow

It's with a different Bible translation, but there's no words that are added or taken away and We're not studying John this week, but for future weeks if you're reading John 6 or John 7 I think that could be really fun to watch the video Depends on yeah along with it now I bring this up because I was thinking along the same lines as you Hank where I've been loving the chosen and there are several clips from the chosen that are drawn from the chapters that we're reading this week. I don't know about you but if I'm teaching you know we're doing a little morning devotional or gospel study time as a family I probably don't have

time to show a whole episode of the chosen. But there's lots of short little clips, a five minute clip here or there that that really are scripturally accurate. But one of the challenges I think that, well, first of all, let me ask you this, I have heard some people say, well, you shouldn't show your kids the chosen or you shouldn't watch it because it's going to give them ideas because it's not a hundred percent accurate. And that's even more with Ben Hurr, right John? By the way, you're feeling the Holy Ghost, but did Jesus actually give water to this guy? We don't know. So, what do you guys think? Is this a realistic danger that we should be worried about or some people stressing too much about it? I... Now, this is just my opinion, anything that brings my kids closer to the Lord, anything

that they, because they were really enjoying the chosen and it's something that's engaging them in the life of Jesus. So maybe I'm being too simplistic, but I love the idea of anything bringing them closer to the Lord. So I'm not overly concerned about it being 100% accurate as it is bringing people to an interest in the New Testament. One of the things I think too is that it's a great opportunity for us as parents or teachers to talk about Jesus. So, you know, for example, recently in season three, episode three of the Chosen, there's a long scene from Luke chapter four as Jesus's first sermon in Nazareth. So as a family, we read long scene from Luke chapter four, as Jesus' first sermon in Nazareth.

So as a family, we read the sermon from Luke chapter four and then we watched the video and then we can kind of talk about what was added in, what was taken out. And my kids, you know, they're obviously interested in a video depiction. First of all, I agree with you Hank, anything that's bringing us to Jesus is gonna be great.

But I also think people are going to watch the chosen or been her or other video depictions and it's going to shape the way that they think about Jesus. So let's talk about that rather than hiding it or saying, well, let's not do it. Let's do a more careful study with the scriptures. And again, I bring this up because several of the pastors, including this first one, we'll talk about in Matthew chapter 11, are depicted very recently in the chosen. And for any parents out there, and you're thinking to yourself,

well, I'd love to show these little clips, but how do I know which season or which episode these are coming from? I've made a little collection. So if you go to John Hilton, ii.com, slash the chosen, I've broken it down by the come follow me weeks, and I have exact little video clips.

So if you just wanna watch the scene with the disciples of John the Baptist talking to Jesus, boom, that's there. Or you just want to watch plucking grain on the Sabbath, that's there. And I hope that this can be a helpful resource for people who want to use the chosen to teach and to draw people into the scriptures because ultimately it's not about Ben Hurts not about the chosen or it's really about Jesus Christ and if we can get into the scriptures I do think this can be a great avenue to get into the scripture. So so maybe with that. Let's dive into Matthew chapter 11, okay, this is a really interesting story with Jesus and John the Baptist So we know that Jesus and John the Baptist were connected from the womb, right? You've got pregnant Mary,

beating pregnant Elizabeth and John the Baptist, John's for joy in the womb. Sometimes we have an reminds us idea that Jesus Christ and John the Baptist were close friends growing up. They're closely connected. And that could be true,

but we just don't know it for sure. The King James Version refers to Mary and Elizabeth as cousins, but the Greek word just means a relative. So maybe they were cousins, maybe Elizabeth was Mary's aunt, they could have been second cousins, but there definitely is some kind of relationship. As far as we know in scripture, the first time that they see each other in person is at the baptism. And it's clear at Christ's baptism, like you were talking about a couple weeks back with Professor Huntsman, that John the Baptist or John the Prophet recognizes Jesus Christ as the Lamb of God. So it's sort of strange in Matthew chapter 11, this is at the beginning of verse 2, when

John heard in prison, he's now been imprisoned by Herod Antipas shortly after Christ's baptism. When John had heard in prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples and they said unto him, art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? And that phrase, he that should come, that actually is significant because back in Matthew chapter 3 verse 11, John had said, he that cometh after me is myier than I, who shoes I am not worthy to bear. So that phrase he that cometh suggests it's a connection between these two passages. It's sort of like John the Baptist is saying, hey wait, are you really the guy that we were

prophesying about? So let's just pause it and think, why would John the Baptist send disciples to Jesus to ask if Jesus is the Messiah because he already knew that. So one of the things that I often heard growing up was something like, well, John already knows that Jesus is the Messiah. So he's sending these two disciples to Jesus because he's hoping they'll start hanging around with Jesus and follow the Savior. these two disciples to Jesus because he's hoping they'll start hanging around with Jesus and follow the Savior. And that's one possibility, but the text itself suggests something different. Because in Matthew chapter 11 verse 4, Jesus tells John's disciples, go and tell John what you hear and see. In other words, he didn't say, oh great, I'm so glad you came to me. He's no, go back,

deliver this message. In verse 7, John's disciples actually do go back to talk to him. So that takes us to another possible reason why John the Baptist sends his disciples to Jesus and say, are you the person that should come or do we look for another? And I wonder if maybe John the Baptist is languishing in prison. And it's hard. And he's starting to lose hope. And maybe he's even doubting a bit like Jesus. I thought you were the Messiah. I thought you were coming to bring in a new kingdom. And here I am in prison. What's going on? So Jesus says to John's disciples, show John again, those things which you do here and see.

Again, those things which you do here and see, the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear. The dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. So that's Matthew 11, four, and five, and that list of healing miracles, if those are all fulfilling prophecies from Isaiah. So in essence, Jesus is saying,

look, all of these miraculous deeds, they're showing, in fact, that I am the Messiah. So what do you guys think about this possibility that John the Baptist might have been losing hope in prison? Does that seem, I don't know, to kind of put down John the Baptist to you or do you think that's more of a message of hope? How do you see that possibility? I like you, I've always thought,

John is saying, he's like this great teacher, and I've had students come to me and say, what's the big deal about the crucifixion? I know, I'll be like, why don't you go to John Hilton's office and knock on his door and ask that exact same question. And I'm not struggling, I'm just sending them because I know what you're gonna say to them. And I think that's how I've always seen this story.

I like this idea. It makes John very human and can't imagine being imprisoned. And he probably wants to see these things and be part of it. I can imagine him breaking down and asking, is everything happening that I hope is happening? Is it real? All right, go and find out for me. That's fascinating, John.

And also, we think about it. Who else has had a powerful witness of Jesus Christ but still struggled with moments of discouragement while in prison? I mean, this could very well be Joseph Smith and Liberty Jail, right? Peter seems to go through this kind of thing, too. Great connection. Yeah, you kind of thing too. Great connection. Yeah, you kind of mentioned it. Humanized as John the Baptist a little bit,

and I certainly don't want to pull John the Baptist down. I'm not asserting that this is the case, but that does seem to be what the text is suggesting, because the disciples come, deliver a message, get a response, and then they go back to John the Baptist. No, I always love a different take on the stories that I've thought I've understood. So I'm a big fan of it. Let's see it in this strain of thought.

Let's see this possibility. I like this new idea, John. This is new to me, and I like this idea because of one, we're looking at the text more closely. And two, John is a real person who may be struggling in prison, like anyone else would, like Joseph Smith did, like you said. Then there's room now for you and me. I mean, I know John, by the way, and Hank Smith never have hard times, never struggle.

But for most of us, yeah. That's real life. Now, if at one point in time, I kind of am struggling a little bit, and I think, oh, look at me, I'm so weak, I'm struggling, but actually, no, there's a series of powerful people who've gone before me, who have gone through their own struggles, which can give me hope, as I face difficulties of my own.

And Jesus seems okay with it. If this really is the case, Jesus seems okay with it. I know he's struggling, go back and tell him. Yep. And the verse that you kind of alluded to at the very beginning, that then Jesus says, among them, which are born of women, have not risen a greater than John the Baptist. So I do love that because what that saying is, if John the Baptist is in fact outing, that doesn't scratch him off the list of Jesus' all-time favorites. Yeah. That's still saying John the Baptist is great. So even if we're struggling,

the Savior might, you know, it's not scratch-hilton off the team. You know, he's like, okay, you're still on my team. I still welcome you. I reach out to you and he doesn't want us to be offended by him, but he's reaching out with words of kindness. Oh, it's good to hear that I'm still Jesus' second favorite, even though I've struggled at times. John the Baptist then, Hank, here I am, sure. This is one of those times where there's a great five minute clip from The Chosen, where

you can kind of see this. And what I would do is, again, this whole point, this podcast, The Chosen, whatever, these are all resources to get us into the scriptures. So you might want to go back, reread Matthew, chapter 11, verses 2 through 19, and then watch that clip from The Chosen. I think, okay, what's different? What's the same? What's added? And how does this visual depiction help shape the way and then kind of think about it? Is this in a good way or not? How I'm thinking about this scene. Yeah, speaking of podcasts

I don't mean to go off on a little tangent here, but John you have your own podcast, right? Yeah, a seeking Jesus So the idea is it's a podcast just focused on learning all we can about Jesus Christ. We'll put the follow him stamp of approval on seeking Jesus by John Hilton. Go ahead. I have everybody look that up. John, by the way, did you have something? Yeah. And this will be another school of thought on this from our friend, the late Robert J. Matthews.

He wrote a lot about John the Baptist and loved John the Baptist. And this is what he said in a book called A Burning Light, the Life and Ministry of John the Baptist. He said, the question they were to put to Jesus was for their edification, not for his own. John knew, as no one else knew, who Jesus was, and he had known it for a long time. He had had revelation from heaven to this effect. He had seen with his eyes, he had heard with his ears, and he had the testimony of the Holy Ghost. The most satisfactory answer seems to be that John sent his disciples to question Jesus about his identity so that

they themselves would at long last realize the truth of what John had been testifying. This is kind of what I heard growing up, but I couldn't pinpoint it to those sources. John, like you found, so I do think it's interesting to be able to hold both possibilities in our hands and search the scriptures and kind of see what is it that the text itself seems to be suggesting and what is the spirit guidance? Yeah, we've talked about this before and here. I think the the more I read and older, I get the more I use that phrase, well, one school of thought is this and another school of thought is this and another school of thought is this and without saying it has to be this or it has to be that. And I think that opens us up to some pondering and searching and that

which is good for us. Yep. It's good to see all the sides of the story. Yeah, could be possible. So I'm really grateful you did that, John. Let's shift gears. We're going to see a theme throughout Matthew 11, Matthew 12 and Luke 11. we're gonna come at this from lots of different angles So I kind of want to introduce it with a Little analogy and match him one day you wake up and there's this big hole in your backyard And it's dangerous the kids could fall into it. They could get hurt So you don't want anyone the neighbors to hurt themselves So you build a little fence

around the whole to protect people. And we can liken sin to the whole in your backyard. When people fall into the whole of sin, it hurts them spiritually. And so to protect ourselves and others, we build little fences to keep us from falling into the whole of sin. So as a concrete example, we got the word of wisdom,

part of which is don't drink alcohol. So I might build a little fence around the word of wisdom, saying, I'm not even going to go to a bar. Now, it's not a sin to go to a bar. It's not even breaking the word of wisdom to walk into a bar. Exactly. But I'm going to keep myself from falling into the whole. Okay. Right. So maybe we could call the word wisdom a core law gets a part of our temple recommend. It's it's definitely something that we're going to do. Whereas don't go into a bar, that would be a fence law. And a fence law is something that prevents us from breaking the core law. And this idea of fence laws, it's ancient and Jesus Christ is interacting with it throughout the gospel accounts. And early Jewish leaders had talked about the phrase,

make a fence around the law as part of their directive to make several extra rules to keep people from breaking the commandments. Is that what the oral law is? Exactly. And our friend, the historian Josephus, actually specifically points out the Pharisees as being a group of people that really adheres to this oral law or these Fence laws.

Josephus wrote, the Pharisees have delivered to the people a great many observances by succession from their fathers which are not written in the law of Moses. And once you kind of are aware of this, you'll see it all the time, for example, in Matthew chapter 15 verse 2, says, then came to Jesus Pharisee saying, why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? So that phrase, tradition of the elder signals to us, this is not the core law of Moses, like the ten commandments that we're talking about, but it's some traditions, some oral laws or fence laws.

And a lot of the Pharisees Fence laws pertain to the Sabbath day. So keeping the Sabbath day holy, that's a core lot. It's one of the 10 commandments. But like, what does that actually mean to work on the Sabbath, right? So they would build some fences around it, don't shard a fire, don't put out a fire, don't carry certain objects, don't walk for far distances. These things don't necessarily violate the Sabbath day, but they're fences. And so in these chapters, we're going to see Jesus Christ interacting with fence laws.

And maybe real quick, just before we say, oh yeah, the Pharisees, they had a ton of fence laws. We interact with fence laws all the time today. What kind of movies are okay to watch? What sort of modesty rules do you have? What kind of swimwear is appropriate? Can I go for a walk on this Sabbath? How about a drive? How about a boat ride? Where's the line? We do this with our kids in dating all the time.

We don't want them to break the law of jacity so we set up dating rules, fence laws. Exactly. And let's be honest, sometimes these fence laws are really important. Hank, you and I were recently on a trip together and we were talking about our teenage kids and some fence laws that we have in place. And the fence laws are helpful. The challenge is if they start to dominate. For example,

in the Come Follow Me manual for this week at the very beginning, it says, in many ways, the Pharisees and scribes had made worshipping Jehovah burdensome. They often emphasized strict rules over eternal truths. Rules about the Sabbath day, which was meant to be a day of rest, were themselves a heavy burden. And then Jehovah himself came among his people. He taught them that the true purpose of religion is not to create burdens, but to relieve them. He taught that God gives us commandments, including the one to honor the Sabbath, not to

oppress, but to bless us. Yes, the way to God is straight and narrow, but the Lord came to announce that we need not walk it alone. Let's dive back into Matthew, chapter 11, and what we'll see is that there's different ways that Christ talks about fence laws. There's pros and cons to fence laws, but let's start with the con. And that's that if we're not careful, fence laws can start to be a heavy burden, like the come fall in me manual is describing. Imagine that there's a cliff and there's this beautiful overlook and it's amazing, but you're worried people might fall off the cliff so you build a fence.

But then what if someone hops that fence? So you build a taller fence and then maybe one more for good measure. So now people start driving to the overlook. I thought this was supposed to be beautiful. All I can see is the fences. Yeah. I think if we take this idea, it can give us a different angle on the Scripture we hear a lot. So in Matthew chapter 11, verse 28,

Jesus says, come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me for I am meek and lowly in heart, and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. So normally when we read this verse we think about we're two oxen, I'm one ox, Jesus is

the other, we're yoke together, he's going to help me carry my burdens. And that's not a bad interpretation at all. But I want us to consider an additional one because right after this verse, and remember chapter breaks, are not part of the original. So there's one continuous flow from Matthew 1130 to Matthew 12 verse 1. It's a story about Fenceloss. Jesus is going to encounter some Pharisees who are mad about what he's doing on the Sabbath day. So right off the bat, you know, there could be a connection between those passages. And then on another occasion in Matthew chapter 23, Jesus says, the scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.

So in other words, they're giving out lots of laws like Moses was doing. And Jesus says, they bind heavy burdens, grievous to be born. So maybe there's a connection between being heavy laden. Come on, between all you that are heavy laden and the Pharisees giving these heavy burdens. And there's actually a similar passage of Luke 11.46 part of our reading this week. Jesus says, woe unto you lawyers for you

laid man with burdens, grievous to be born. Now, here's what's really interesting. In ancient times, the fairs' Aical Fence laws collectively were known as the Yoke of the Law. And we actually see something similar in Acts 15. If you remember in Acts 15, all of the apostles and others that they gathered together to talk about which Jewish rules do Gentiles need to live. And then Peter says, partway through, when there had been much disputing, Peter rose

up and said unto them, why Timchie God to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which need there are fathers, nor we were able to bear. So again, we see this idea that a yoke is referring to extra rules and regulations. So if we put all these different things we've been talking about together, maybe there's a different way we can read Matthew 11 verses 28 through 30, where Jesus is saying, come unto me, all you that are heavy, laid in, you're overwhelmed with so many fence laws, these extra rules and burdens, and they're not really part of God's law. So come on to me. My yoke is easy. My burden is light. My yoke is love God. Love your neighbor. And let's go.

John Hankini thoughts on that. What was that? The verse you said a minute ago, after you said the Pharisees saw it gave them the yoke of the law, then you had another one that you're yoke. Yeah, Acts chapter 15 verse 10 Peter refers to all these extra rules as a yoke on the neck of the disciples. I really appreciate this. It's kind of like, how do I remember all these rules? I'm not supposed to do this. I'm not supposed to do that. And that wasn't the intention. Those are fences they built. And I appreciate that they say to Jesus, how come your disciples don't keep the tradition of the elders? Yeah, that's Matthew 15, too. I love that Jesus kind of makes sure that we see the difference between the commandments

of God and the traditions of the elders. And that he points it out when they pointed out there. That's a tradition. That's not part of the original commandment, but that's the fence you put around the law. Anyway, I'd never heard that idea that this yoke could be the burdens, the Pharisees placed by continuing to add to the law. That's really cool. And I think we need to be careful we don't do this to our own families. That we don't burden our children with so many laws that there's no joy in the gospel. It's all heavy.

It's trying to remember everything you're supposed to do that I can give me a handbook, that I can follow, the Smith handbook of instruction for everything I'm supposed to do to make sure I'm keeping all the fence laws and the joys and keeping the commandments. In my mind, I can picture a woman and she feels the Holy Ghost prompt her to read the book and Mormon for 30 minutes a day and she's loving it and she's feeling so good about it. And then a release society, the teacher says, I invite everyone to read all the general conference talks over the next month.

So she starts working on that and then her ministering sister comes and visits and says, you know, you really should write down a tender mercy every day. And then the high counselors, everyone make sure you're doing the come follow me studies and listening to the follow him podcast every week. We like that Fensla. That's a good Fensla. Yeah. And pretty soon what should be like you said, the joy in the command that Sonscriptor should be bringing me closer to Jesus Christ becomes a burden, some checklist, and I feel like, oh, I can't do it all, and it's stressful. In this example, what I'm kind of broadly referring to as fence laws can also include

good ways of inviting the spirit into our lives, but collectively speaking, could become demoralizing when we realize I can't do it all. And there's an interesting quote from Elder Ucdorf on this. I'd love your thoughts. Elder Ucar said, keeping the commandments may present a problem for some, because there are so many sheds and should-nots that merely keeping track of them can be a challenge. Sometimes, well-meaning amplifications of divine principles, many coming from uninspired sources, complicate matters further, deluding the purity of divine truth with man-made adenda. One person's good idea, something that may work for him or her, takes root and becomes an expectation.

That's really good. We can take these fence laws and turn them into commandments themselves. Yeah, to be clear, it's good to have fence laws. The challenge is if my personal fence law that's really helpful for me becomes an expectation for you. I start judging you because you're not living it. And my Sunday school class, I start teaching that everyone should do it. That becomes a real challenge.

President Henry Beiring said something similar. And this really helped me. He said, you will be torn between the demands to put bread on the table and a roof over your head to take care of a family need, to respond to the cries of the widows or the orphans around you, and at the same time meet the requirements of the calling you have accepted in the church. When that happens, you will be sorely tempted to murmur, perhaps even to complain. But remember, you serve a powerful master who loves you, who knows you, and who is all powerful.

He has created not demands for your service, but opportunities for your growth. You can pray to him and with confidence, ask, what will you have me do next? And there's more, but that helped me a lot when I was a bishop, because I, with all of the different, now do this, now do this, and be sure you catalog this, and, and and oh right down your 10 to mercies and be sure you have a half an hour in

the book more oh and be sure you follow it. It was that question helped me tremendously because I did murmur perhaps even complain that I can't do this all and then come home and be a dad and a husband and everything and so that question I can't do it all but what come home and be a dad and a husband and everything. And so that question, I can't do it all, but what should I do next was a relief to me. So I appreciated present, I ring for that talk. It was called Servants of the Lord. It's in this little book called, We're with you. When I was a student at BYU, I was called to be Elders Corn President and I had a part-time job and a full-time school load and then I was supposed to study and try to get good grades and then try to be an Elders Corn President and try to help others do their home teaching.

And then I'd get pulled aside, hey dude, why aren't you married? So I tried to do all of that at the same time. That was burdensome. And I appreciated the advice of, well, what should I do next? Because then it kind of the Lord can help you find the priority. And then you can leave the residue in his hands as President Eiring said, which I really appreciated. I have a thought here from 1990. Can either of you remember that far back? 1990s. Stephen E. Robinson, a devotional given a view of you called believing Christ, wrote a book with the same title. I think maybe an enzyme article in the same title. He tells this story about he and his wife. He

says, sometimes the weight of the demand for perfection drives us to despair. Sometimes we fail to believe the most choice portion of the demand for perfection drives us to despair. Sometimes we fail to believe the most choice portion of the gospel that says he can change us and bring us into his kingdom. Let me share an experience that happened about 10 years ago. So now we're going back to the 1980s. My wife and I were living in Pennsylvania. Things were going pretty well.

I'd been promoted. It was good year for us, a trying year for Janet his wife That year she had our fourth child graduated from college passed the CPA exam and was made relief society president Oh goodness. We had temple recommends. We had family of mevening. I was in the bishopric I thought we were headed for LDS yummy hood Then one night the lights went out something happened in my wife that I can only describe dying spiritually. She wouldn't talk about it. She wouldn't tell me what was wrong. That was the worst part. For a couple of weeks, she did not wish to participate in spiritual things. She asked me to be released from recallings and she would not open up and tell me what was wrong. Finally, after about two weeks,

one night, I made her mad and it came out. She said, all right, you want to know what's wrong? I'll tell you what's wrong. I can't do it anymore. I can't lift it. I can't get up at 5.30 in the morning and bake bread and so close and help my kids with their homework and do my own homework and do my release study stuff and get my egeniology done and write my congressman and go to PDA meetings and write the missionaries. She just started naming one brick after another that had been laid on her, explaining all the things she could not do. She said, I don't have the talent that Sister Morrell does. I can't do what Sister Childs does. I try not to yell at the kids, but I lose control, and I do.

I'm just not perfect, and I'm never going to be perfect. I'm not going to make it the celestial kingdom, and I finally admitted that to myself. You and the kids can go, but I can't lift it. I'm not Molly Mormon. I'm not ever going to be perfect, so I've given up. Why break my back? We started to talk and it was a long night. He goes on later to say She knew why Jesus is a coach a cheerleader an advisor and a teacher. She knew why he is an example the head of the church They all the brother or even God. She knew all of that

But she did not understand why he is called the savior. Janet was trying to save herself with Jesus as an advisor. He said, I'm going to do this. You can help me brothers and sisters. We can't. No one can. No one is perfect. He said, of course we fail at the celestial level. That's why we need a savior. And we are commanded to approach God and call upon Him that we may receive according to our desires. Later paragraph says this, perfection comes through the atonement of Christ. We become one with Him with a perfect being, and as we become one there is a merger. That story makes it real. That's a real story. I'll just finish with the scripture again because he does quote the same scripture. This is why the Savior says in Matthew 1128, come unto me, I'll ye that labor and are heavy latent

and I will give you rest. What heavier load is there than the demand for perfection? That you must do it all and that you must make yourself perfect in this life before you can have any hope in the next. What heavier burden is there than that? That is the yoke of the law. Great. Stephen Robinson, that whole, just the idea of the book, I thought was so good, believing Christ, he kind of said at the beginning, I think a lot of us believe in Christ, we believe that he exists, but we don't believe him when he says he can save us. I can save you, yeah.

Yeah, and he wrote a follow-up book to that called following Christ. And in some ways I liked it even more. One of the things he said was a lot of us are asking the question, am I going to make it? And his thesis was section 25 of the doctrine of covenants. If you've been baptized, you are sons and daughters in my kingdom. The question is not, are you going to make it? The question is, do you wanna stay? It's kind of a relief of a, and then, Birkno, you're in, you're in the kingdom, do you wanna stay?

And we keep coming back to the sacrament table and making me covenant, so we keep trying. And I think that's the thing, but the bird in part that she felt there, I think all of us can relate to that. That's a great story. This is an excellent discussion. So we've been circling around the topic of Fence laws. So I think one takeaway from Matthew 11, 28 through 30 is, it's not that Fence laws are bad, but we should think carefully about our Fence

laws. And ask ourselves, are these drawing me closer to Jesus Christ or these helping me live the gospel with joy? Or are these becoming a barrier or a burden. And there's more to say about Fence laws that will come back to in a second, but I do want to emphasize that obedience is really important. Just a couple of weeks ago, we were in the Sermon of the Mount and Jesus says, not everyone that says to me, Lord, Lord will come into the kingdom, but he that does the will of my father. So he that hears these words and do with them, that's the person building on a rock.

Or in this week's reading in Luke chapter 11 verse 28, Jesus says, blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it. Or at the end of Matthew chapter 12 from this week, Jesus says, whosoever shall do the will of my father, which is in heaven. The same is my brother and sister and mother. So sometimes we focus on the the same as my brother and sister and mother. So sometimes we focus on the fact that Jesus loves us and that's true, Jesus does love us. He also really wants us to keep his commandments. That's a requirement to be a part of his family. So inspired fence laws that will help us to do God's will are extremely valuable. And I think the best kinds of fence laws are the ones that will

come from profits and from the Holy Ghost. So you might be around maybe another family member or friend and you learn about their fence law and the Holy Ghost says, you should do that. So that's not going to be a burden. That's God helping me. That'd be more like the commandments, not a few that we talked about back in the Doctrine and Covenants. I'd love to hear a little bit about some fence laws that you or your family has had that's been helpful for you. And just while you're thinking about it, I'll share one from my life. So toward the end of my mission, Elder Richard G. Scott of the Cornel Twelve Apostles came and spoke to all the missionaries.

And he had given a similar message at BYU that he gave to us. So this is what he said at BYU. He said something similar to us. Firmly establish personal standards. Choose a time of deep spiritual reflection when there's no pressure on you and you can confirm your decisions by sacred impressions. Decide then what you will do

and what you will not do to express feelings. The spirit will guide you. So in other words, Elder Scott is basically saying, create your own fence law for the law of chastity based on the Holy Ghost. So I was a diligent missionary. Okay, I'm going to do this right now. There's no temptation for me. I pray I feel the Holy Ghost testified to me of a certain fence law.

I lived it on my mission. It was super easy. Then I came it on my mission. It was super easy Then I came home for my mission. So I've been home for three or four days I'm on my first post mission date with the young lady that I dated a little bit before my mission and We're at the house together and I'm showing her some pictures from my mission and she's showing me pictures from college and Then I'll send I'm looking into her eyes and she's looking into my eyes and I realize there's an opportunity to break my fence lie here. So I looked at her and I said have I ever told you about the standard I set for myself on my mission? Now in

retrospect there was a lot better way I could have handled this situation. So romantic. It's only been home for three days. You know, so help me out here. So she's, no, what is it? I told her this standard that I'd set for myself and she looked at me and she said, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And that was her last date. So that was it.

That was it. That was it. Not always. In fairness to her in later years, we talked about this and laughed about it together. I do not think I was in danger that night of breaking the law of chocity, but I do think that the Fenslai had kept me out of some sticky situations in college that I might have fallen into. Not everyone's going to always be supportive of your Fenslaas, but if you get a rule from the Holy Ghost, you want to live that. It's not that all Fence Laws are burdensome.

And some of these examples that we've been talking about, it's great to help people do their home teaching, or it's great for, in the early example I gave, for the woman who wants to read the scripture is 30 minutes a day. So there's some Fence Laws that we wanna keep, and we wanna be careful we just don't

throw out the baby with a bath water. I feel like the new, for the strength of ETH guide is talking about exactly what Elder Scott talked about The emphasis we've been hearing from President Nelson is to hear him and then to let God prevail The way the new for the strength of ETH guide was written was to say Rather than being as prescriptive as it has been in the past we want you to get on your knees and Hear him and then set those standards, like Elder Scott said, for yourself. Some are looking at it, oh, there's a lot more

freedom here. Well, actually, it's placing the responsibility on your shoulders to get on your knees and ask God how you should govern your life. And as you said, maybe create some of those fence laws that you're talking about. So, where's that Elder Scott quotation again? That was really good. So that Elder Scott quote comes from is a B.O.U. devotional, do what is right. And it's interesting, John, the standard that I set for myself actually was a little stricter than what for the strength of you said. But because it was the Holy Ghost driving it into my heart, of you said, but because it was the Holy Ghost driving it into my heart, I was so comfortable living it. And I think that's what's powerful. When the moment of temptation comes, well, wait, what did my young women's leaders say about this? That's not going to be enough.

John, I know that you serve on the General Young Men's Presidency Board. And so you might have seen some different angles into the, for the strength of youth. I've heard some people say kind of similar to what you said, oh great, the rules are gone. But as I listen to the General Young Men's Presidency speak at the Church News Podcast a little while ago, they talked about a higher and holier way. What I should be doing is apparent

or youth around the new for the strength of youth. We had one young men's leader locally just said this for the strength youth guide is next level and it has a really good way to put it instead of looking down to a book and saying how do I behave? It's looking up and saying how some that have said, oh, there's nothing anymore about this or that dress and grooming and have gone out and done whatever. Well, did they get on their knees first and look up and ask for that higher, holier way? Because those who have, I think that's what's happening. They're

getting a higher holier standard and impression about how do I represent Christ? I've taken his name upon me at the sacrament table, man, how do I go out and represent him? And that's a different question than, well, what does it say I can do in the book? Or what does it say I can't do in the book? It's a higher, holier way. And it's a way that puts more responsibility on our shoulders not less. I Was just thinking how good my wife is at explaining fence laws to our kids I've seen her do this many times where she will say now this in itself is not a commandment Not going on steady dates with someone, not being alone with some member of the opposite person, whatever, yeah, a special person.

But she says, this will keep you from breaking a commandment or getting yourself into real trouble. I've tried to follow her example and be better about explaining why I would hope there's certain laws that we keep, certain things that we do in our house, and kind of show them the fence and the cliff and the consequences and what everything is. And so we can be very clear that the fence law itself, though it may feel burdensome, can actually be a protection for us.

But when you break a fence law, you're not necessarily falling over the cliff. And that's why Mom and Dad don't panic and freak out because look, you broke that fence law. Now you're closer to the cliff. That's probably not a good idea. Come back over on this side of the fence. Please join us for part two of this podcast. Please join us for part two of this podcast.