Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Matthew 19-20; Mark 10; Luke 18 Part 2 • Dr. Matt Townsend • May 8 - May 14

Episode Date: May 3, 2023

Dr. Matt Townsend continues to discuss faith, the Laborers in the Vineyard, and trusting in God’s mercy.00:00 Part II– Dr. Matt Townsend00:52 Parable of the Laborer’s in the Vineyard07:07 Paradox of comparisons12:53 Alma’s joy is more full because of the success of his brethren.16:10 John Bytheway reminds us to always appreciate, and to avoid entitlement.21:32 Elder Oaks teaches the importance of what we become.26:46 Dr. Townsend shares what true conversion means.28:58 A certain rich young man asks the Savior how he can inherit eternal life.36:15 Jesus loves us, and asks us to do the one hard thing to help us change.42:42 The love of anything over God destroys us.44:26 Dr. Townsend shares the impact of a young men’s leader in his own life.48:14 Elder Uchtdorf teaches salvation is a gift from God.49:13 What is our dominant love?51:27 Marion G. Romney teaches we must be willing to sacrifice everything.52:32 The prayer of the Pharisee and the Publican59:26 Dr. Townsend encourages a daily connection to God.1:02:47 End of Part II–Dr. Matt TownsendPlease rate and review the podcast.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.coFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-piano

Welcome to part two with Dr. Matt Townsend, Bethu19 and 20, Mark chapter 10 and Luke chapter 18. Let's go from a big one to a big one. Bigger one. So if you turn to Matthew 20, one through 16, we're going to uncover the labors in the vineyard. What a great parable this is and I'm so excited. I don't know if there's a greater parable out there Matt. Is this one of your favorites? It just gets you thinking. It's so good. So many details here that you can learn from. It's rich. And so everybody ought to go listen to Elder Holland's message, the laborers in the vineyard as he kind of

breaks this down. Yeah. I have him teach this for me when I get to this I just okay watch this and it's so good. Why don't we just run the video? In this there's a householder a person that owns property. I'm a farmer I guess somebody wealthy enough to own property and He needs laborers to work in his field. And so he went out early in the morning and he hired his laborers at about 6 a.m. And it was hard to find jobs for people back then. And labor for that day would pay for their food.

So it was pretty much everyone was living meal to meal. And those early laborers at 6 a.m., they all got hired. Then the house owner got him working and he went back out at 9 a.m. and at noon and at three hiring more workers as his urgency and his harvest was increasing. So he was hiring throughout the day at about the 11th hour. So about five o'clock, he hired a few more laborers. So some are getting hired one hour before closing time and work ends. And then at six o'clock, he went to pay off his laborers

and the day was going to be done. And now some of them had only been there an hour. They had only been hired for one hour. Surprisingly, though, and this is Elder Holland's words, surprisingly all received the same wage in spite of the different hours of labor. Immediately, those hired first were angry, saying these last have wrought but one hour

and thou hast made them equal unto us, which has borne the burden and the heat of the day. Elder Holland says, when reading this parable, perhaps you, as well as those workers, have felt that there was some injustice being done here. Let me speak briefly to that concern. Now, check your gut on it. When you hear that somebody came in for one hour of labor, but got paid a full day's wage, what does it do to you? What does it do to your head? Do you immediately think that's not fair? Do

you immediately get a little upset about it? And this again goes back to the paradox. This loving, amazing, caring housekeeper and property owner was kind. And he paid everyone for the wage. He paid him for the day and yet people were upset about it paradoxically. And this is the the rub of all of this. Now interestingly Elder Holland was very clear. No one was mistreated. He says. The early workers agreed to a full wage for the day and they received it. The owner kept the contract that they made with them. And apparently they were very happy about it. They took the work.

They took the work because the work they were desperate for and you know what else is they knew the wage. They knew what they would be paid. The others didn't necessarily know what they would be paid. And because they didn't know what they would be paid. And because they didn't know what they would be paid, they were in a riskier place. They were grateful to receive the work. Remember, no work, no money, no eat. And with more workers than jobs being chosen in the morning, it was a blessing for every hour, for everyone that got hired, it was

a pure blessing. Because that meant that they were going to be able to exist and to subsist. Now, what about the men not chosen? What about the men not chosen in the first hour or the third hour or the next hiring? Those people had to go half a day wondering where their food was going to come from. So they had to take on a different burden. And apparently the house owner was basically paying for that as well. Others were hired that were not told what they would be given as far as the amount and they were still treated more than fairly. So everybody throughout the day was treated fairly. And yet, Elder Holland asked,

why should you be jealous because I choose to be kind? He's paraphrasing what the householder would say. Why should you be jealous because I chose to be kind? And I think a lot of us see this in our own existence where we watch people, how come they get that benefit? How come they were called to that calling? How come they always get to do that? We probably need to break this down and start to figure out what is it about us that makes our jealousies so real. Again, I'm going to go back to. That's part of the paradox of life is that it isn't fair and it doesn't make sense because

by the way, the next day, another householder might not do this, probably wouldn't do this. So you can't count on the blessings to keep coming. One thing that this parable speaks to me is that human beings can grasp, defeat, out of the jaws of victory because everyone could celebrate at the end of this day. Like we talked about in our earlier map with a family mentality, everyone's happy for everyone, everyone celebrating each other's success. But I had a great day, I worked all day, I didn't have to think where my food was going to come from today.

And it was hard, it was difficult, I sweat a lot, but still I'm glad to have the work. And yet I can have that whole day ruined because someone else got a blessing. That crazy. Yeah. Someone else got something good that happened to them. So I throw it all out. It's just not fair. It's just not. By the way, when you see that little jealousy, a lot of times the jealousy almost, and I see this with clients arguing back and forth, and they'll even use words like, that's not fair. And it's not fair, it's just kind, it was just kindness. And sometimes what you'll see is if we have

a really traumatic event that happens to us when we're really young in our lives, we kind of emotionally are stunted, and it's no longer safe to risk with people. So we judge them more harshly. And you can almost see that they're coming off as a lot more immature emotionally. So a lot of times you can bet that they've been hurt. CS Lewis has this quote, I know you guys have heard a million times from mirror Christianity.

Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man. It is the comparison that makes you proud, the pleasure of being above the rest. Once the element of competition has gone, pride has gone. So the darn problem with this darn world is the paradox of we're competing, we're comparing, we're contrasting. And if one person gets ahead and we have a zero some mentality, then we're actually getting behind where with God, it's abundant. And when you then kind of hold this metaphor, the story up and parable up as an image of what our Heavenly Father will do for us,

where it doesn't matter when you show up. We just show up and he'll pay you the full blessing. He'll give you the full blessing. And that is a point that Elder Holland drives home. Show up. It doesn't matter when you show up. Just show up. Hold on.

Oh, by the way, another lesson he gives a stop pouting. Lesson number one from the Lord's vineyard, coveting, pouting and tearing down others does not elevate your standing, nor does demeaning someone else improve yourself image. So be kind and be grateful that God is kind. It is a happy way to live your life. Another point that he drills that is so beautiful at the end,

he says, my beloved brothers and sisters, what happened in this story at nine or noon or three is swept up in the grandeur of the universally generous payment at the end of the day. The formula of faith is to hold on, work on, see it through, and let the distress of earlier hours, real or imagined, fall away in the abundance of the final reward. Don't dwell on old issues or grievances, not toward yourself, nor your neighbor, nor even I might add toward this true and living church. The majesty of your life, of your neighbor's life and of the gospel of Jesus Christ will be made manifest at the last day,

even if such majesty is not always recognized by everyone in the early going. So don't hyperventilate about something that happened at nine in the morning when the grace of God is trying to reward you at six in the evening. Whatever your labor arrangements have been throughout the day. I love it. John, I'm ready for you to tell us how you teach this. When we talk about the parable with prodigal son, which I love, everything's fine until there's a comparison and looking sideways and wait, what do you get? What did I get? Wait, wait, wait a minute. And you use those phrases abundance. And I think it's Stephen Covey that talked about an abundance versus a scarcity mentality. If you get one piece of little seizures, there's less for me,

is the scarcity mentality. But the abundance mentality is we have a pizza factory. It's a great analogy. You always go with pizza. We have all the pizza that we want. There's not finite pizza. We have little seizures just down the street. So that idea of your success doesn't take away from mine. And I love this book of Mormon example. When Alma and the four sons of those I meet again, when I look at these, the success of my brother, and he says, then I say to myself, oh, you guys did better than I did. I wish I wouldn't have been called there to that mission. No, he doesn't say that. He's thrilled that his brother and have been successful.

I guess that's the place we have to get to. Easier said than done, but there's one more thing I want to add, which I think I learned on this podcast, got to in my scriptures, to look at this parable of the labors in the vineyard dispensationally. And if you look at it that way, we are the ones who showed up at the last hour. We didn't have to bury our ancestors every morning on the plains. We came to a church with temples already built, then handbooks and manuals already written, with those tough times already gone through. And we show up, and we've got church buildings and meeting houses and programs and we are the ones who showed up last if you look at it that way. And maybe those earlier dispensations are looking at us going, wow, we laid the foundation for all of this and and you guys just showed up. That helps me think

if it's dispensationally, we showed up at the 11th hour and we're getting all the benefit from what our ancestors provided for us. Yeah, then all of a sudden we're like, no, no, no, they're good. Let them in. Let them in. They're awesome. Let them have the full reward because it's us at that point.

It depends on who you identify with in the parable. I got to read another thought from Elder Holland from a different talk actually. He says, how does this happen? He's talking about how we get upset with other people He says, how does this happen? He's talking about how we get upset with other people's success. How does this happen, especially when we wish so much that it would not? I think that one of the reasons is that every day we see alertments of one kind or another that tell us what we have is not enough. Someone or something is forever telling us we need to be more handsome, more wealthy,

more applauded, or even more admired than we see ourselves as being. We are told that we haven't collected enough possessions or gone to enough fun places. We are bombarded with the message that on the world scale of things we have been weighed in the balance and found wanting. Listen to this. Some days it is as if we have been locked in a cubicle of a great and spacious building where the only thing on TV is a never-ending soap opera called Vayne Imaginations. It's so good. Yeah. It's really wonderful. And that's not how God works. No one of us, he says later, is less treasured or cherished of God than another.

He loves each of us insecurities, anxieties, self-image, and all. That's good. So in the Book of Mormon, Alma goes to a different mission more to the Nephites. This is more reactivation. The four sons of Mosiah go to the Lamanites, but I love this verse, Alma 29-14. I do not joy in my success alone. My joy is more full because of the success of my brethren who have been up to the land of Nephi.

The whole they have labored exceedingly and have brought forth much fruit and how great shall be their reward. Now, when I think of the success of these my brethren, my soul is carried away even to the separation of it from the body as it were. So great is my joy. Great example of I can be happy for the success of others.

Easier said than done, but it shows you where he was. Whenever we see, and this is a big thing I try to teach when I'm coaching my clients, is the minute we see the tension that you can start to see these people vibrating and being frustrated about what the Honamoner did Once that tension is created, that's fine because the tension is starting to teach us something So Brigham Young said the gospel causes men and women to reveal that which has slept in their dispositions Until they would drop into their graves The plan by which the Lord leads this people

makes them reveal their thoughts and intents and brings out every trait of disposition lurking in their beings. So every interaction of our life is a chance to let our disposition be revealed. And when our disposition is to do evil and it appears, it's, that's okay. Now, take it and let's correct it

and let's turn and adjust away or toward God. Now, one other point that I think is so important is Elder Rennland was talking in general conference in his talk as I draw all men unto me and he was quoting Elder Wilford Anderson on a principle that you guys have shared, I'm sure. I call it the principle of proximity, but this is the principle, he says,

the greater the distance between the giver and the receiver, the more the receiver develops a sense of entitlement. So, when you're hiring workers and laborers that hardly know you, they might have a higher sense of entitlement than when you hire someone that knows you. sense of entitlement, then when you hire someone that knows you. Because of the distance. Yeah, because of the distance. One of the powerful things in our relationships is the more we get to know our partner, that should create more insight, more health, more appreciation, more giving of the benefit of the doubt, that you know they're good. One of my goals in life is to always make sure

as I'm getting to know people deeper and deeper that I'm doing it in a way so that I can be more effective and more influential with them and also more influenced by them. Proximity and closeness to the people around us can also, if it's done with appreciation, if it's done with love, can actually make it so we have fewer and fewer of these entitled incidents.

My wife and I, before we had any kids or anything, we went to an education week talk by Dr. Charles Becker. And he wrote three words on the chalkboard, which have blessed my marriage and I didn't realize how much would bless my family. Three words, he wrote, appreciate, expect, and demand. And he said, well, no, first married, our spouse does something for us. We appreciate it so much, but over time, if we're not careful, what we at first appreciated, we begin to expect. And then over time, if we're not careful,

what we've come to expect, we begin to demand. Hank, I give my students a pretty generous test review, but if I don't mention something in one or two of the questions, they come back, hey, you didn't say anything about this one. I'm like, I handed you most of the test. Do you appreciate that, right? And I think about this parable we just read,

they appreciated getting the work. And that's where we've got to stay is on appreciate. And now we use that with our kids. Are you an appreciate expector demand about this family vacation? Oh, we've got to stay on, stay on appreciate. John, that is so great. I love that principle, Matt. I love that principle of appreciating and not having an entitlement mentality. Let me show you one other thing in here that I've thought of. And that is, let's say that the vineyard is the church. And you were called early in your life to be part of the church. You were born into the church. And then you see other people who joined the church late in life. They're 85 or something. They joined the church and you think, man,

I had to work so hard. I had to get up at dark 30 for four years and go to seminary. I had to serve a mission. I had to keep the commandments. I had to go to stake priesthood. Yeah, I had to go to stake priesthood. A seminary, I had to keep the Sabbath day for those many years.

Is that maybe part of revealing my disposition, Matt, and how I feel about my membership in the church? I don't see it as a blessing. I see it as a burden. Yeah, and remember, the Anthony Fetley has had no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually. By the way, I don't think it meant they didn't do evil.

They just didn't want to, they didn't like it. They'd fall into it, they'd start feeling that feeling, and then they'd catch it. But the cool thing is, I think that's the plan. God wants our disposition to be worn on our sleeve, not like the hypocrites that hide it in whiteed sepulchres where Moth and Doth thus corrupt. So I think he likes that it's out there.

One of the examples that is the ultimate paradoxical example is, I call it the Peter paradox. Because Peter, he fell asleep during guessemony. Peter is me. When he's in the upper room and the savior wants to wash his feet, he won't let him. And he's like, no, no, you need to. You're not washing my feet. Then you won't have place with me.

And he's like, then wash my whole body. Okay, you're missing the point, Peter. But one by one by one, Peter was just kind of impetuous. And just me, he's so me. And yet at the end, and he denied Christ. And at the end, God gave him, Christ gave him the keys to the kingdom, the priesthood to lead and the power to lead it.

So he's okay with it. Just own it and be okay with your own self and literally Allow yourself to be the servant. Allow yourself to be the lowest But again, that goes so contrary to human nature Natural man's an enemy to God has been since the fall and will be forever and ever unless we learn to yield To the enticings of that Holy Spirit, and put it off that paradoxical natural man and become of the saint through the atonement at one man with Christ and become meek and submissive and humble.

Mosiah 3.19, like to me, it's the anchor of our existence, and I think God loves our trying this. If it was about us being perfect, then they drop the veil. Just drop it, and I'll perfect, then they dropped the veil. Just drop it. And I'll show you how good I can be. But if it's about us figuring it out and working it from the inside out, I think we're in the perfect situation. I would love to see these laborers who have been there all day say to those who just got there like congratulations on getting paid that much. That's awesome. I wish you could have

been here all day. I wish you could have been with the householder all day. We're so lucky to have been here all day. That would be a different story. In a way, he didn't join the church at 85 years old, but at 24, my dad, and if you wanted to irritate him, you could say something like that. Oh, so when you were a teenager, you got to blah, blah, blah. You got to do that. As if Wickedness really was happiness. Is that what we're saying? Yeah. And he didn't. He was a pretty good boy, actually, but you see what I'm saying. He also never got to go to a fireside and never got to go to a youth conference and never got to have those experiences. So yeah, that's a good, a good idea to remind us. Don't look at it that way. And I guess this really isn't about economic labor

Practices as it is as much about when people come into the kingdom Elder Holland finishes with his concern is for the faith at which you finally arrive Not the hour of the day and what you got there For another twist on this parable then Elder Oaks gave a talk called The Challenge to Become in October of 2000. John, we've talked about this talk how many different times, how many different episodes it just keeps coming up. He says about this parable. Like other parables, this one can teach us several different valuable principles. For present purposes, its lesson is that the master's reward in the final judgment will not

be based on how long we have labored in the vineyard. We do not obtain our heavenly reward by punching a time clock. What is essential is our labors in the workplace of the Lord have caused us to become something. For some of us, this requires a longer time than for others. That's an interesting insight that, oh, I was born in the church because the Lord thought Yeah, you're gonna need a long time in the church to change Many who come in the eleventh hour have been refined and prepared by the Lord in other ways then formal employment in the vineyard

These workers and I thought of Mother Teresa here These workers are like the prepared dry mix to which it is only necessary to add water. The perfecting ordinance of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. With that addition, even in the 11th hour, these workers are in the same state of development and qualified to receive the same reward as those who have labored long in the vineyard. And then he adds one hopeful thought here. This parable teaches us that we should never give up hope and loving associations with family members and friends whose fine qualities evidence their progress toward what a loving father would have them become. Just another wonderful insight into this incredible parable. I had a beloved mission companion. I will call him Elder C. And I will never forget once when he was promising this good man that he could quit smoking and he could quit drinking and he could quit all

of these things. And he finally blurred it out. I know you can because I did. Missionaries know it's not necessary to divulge their pass-sins, but so we're riding our bikes back and I'm like, Elder, tell me about your life. He just starts laughing, oh man, I had to see a gentleman 34, it came out and and it was so wonderful. I don't think he graduated from seminary. I don't think he went to early morning like I did and all that stuff. But the beautiful thing was he was one of my most beloved companions and there we were teaching together. And speaking of Alma and his success, I ran into him the other day, firm in the faith, kids on missions, and I felt that kind of joy, the Book of Mormon promises. Okay, so we came into the field at a different time.

Mormon promises. Okay, so we came into the field at a different time, but never forget, here you say that, hearing his backstory and who cares. Here we are right now, and we're teaching together and having a wonderful time in the Philippines. Matt, before we finish out this parable, I just want to ask you, you're the expert here, why are human beings like this? Why do we, why are we so quick to get jealous? And even of our own spouse and people we want to see succeed. Yeah, we want them to succeed, but not that much. Right? It is so real. And you know what I really think? I think so much of it is it's our body. I think we think it's always our mind that makes us think this way. But our body is designed to fight for survival. And we are designed to know what's right.

I did not know this, but empathy, the reality of you having an empathic feeling for another person, you know where it begins? It doesn't begin in your mind as you think about them. It begins in your eyes as you watch them. That's why the Savior would always cast His eyes round about on the multitude. And when He beheld that they were in tears, the eye to eye is what we call mirror neurons in our brain. So when I'm looking not in His eyes, but I'm looking at someone that's sad, my brain goes

to my sad part of my body and creates chemistry for sad. That's where empathy begins. And then we hang a thought onto it that then makes it what we should do or how we should act. So if our body is doing so much of this leading, but our body is also where the fighter flight instinct leads. And once that fighter flight natural man kicks in, I no longer see you as a brother. I see you as a competitor.

And as a thing that's going to take something from me. So I really think deep down, that's where it goes, which is why the power of just hearing these stories, I think, is so incredible. And then looking into our own self, what is keeping me from and this will be a perfect segue into our next topic. What's keeping me from being the godly person I want to be and Be open sincerely to not just turn off the feelings and to not just change your mind But to let the spirit start to work on you and let the spirit start to control the body and the mind. And I think that's really what God means by conversion and turning us.

I love the idea that the concept of the word repentance, metanoia, would mean to have a change or a shift of mind. In our Bible dictionary, it says, a change or a shift of mind towards yourself, God, and others. So once we shift our mind from maybe the carnal mind to the spiritual mind, from the carnal body and the brain to the spiritual mind, that is the beginning of repentance. And we could put it in five steps. We could also put it in one feeling.

I think that's why humans do it. And I actually think it's good, weirdly. Remember, these things are good. These things are good. They reveal our own disposition. I love it. Okay, so let's go back now. Matthew 19, 16 to 22, where we're going to talk about the story of the certain rich young man. I am so excited to hear your view on this you guys because to me, if I had a chance to ask the Savior a question, that's a big deal. I had a chance to ask an apostle, President Hinckley, in the first presidency at the time, when I was an 18 year old right before my mission, we sat down in a house with President Hinckley and about 15 or 20 of my friends.

And again, remember, I was kind of raised with some inactive parents and not used to all this church stuff at first. But I'm sitting there and he's like, you guys can ask me any question you want. So, what would you ask? Because I kind of regret my question. Because I went, I went with dinosaurs. I just said, so what's with the dinosaurs? And, um, I had this magic moment and he just looked at me like, really, you're going to go there? Of all places, you're going to the dinosaurs.

You have a member of the first residency and you're going to the dinosaurs. You have a member of the first residency and you're going with the dinosaurs. So I wish I could do it again. But here is a young man that comes up to the savior and he asks him a question. So by the way, what would you guys ask? Well, Matt, it says right in the first paragraph of the manual, if you had the opportunity to ask the savior a question,

what would it be? When a certain rich young man met the Savior for the first time, he asked, what good things shall I do that I may have eternal life? The Savior's response showed both appreciation for the good things the man had already done and loving encouragement to do more. When we ponder the possibility of eternal life, we may similarly wonder if there's more we should be doing. We may ask in our own way, and this is the question, I just don't think I could ask Jesus, what lack I yet? The Lord can give us answers that are just as personal as His response to the rich, young man.

So my response to your question is, I don't think I could ask what lack I yet. No, yeah, I don't know if I'm ready for that. John, what would you ask? I can fill yellow pads with what I lack. I think he's coming from a checklist, check off the box commandments mentality and not a what am I becoming mentality that we've talked about with President Oaks. I think I would ask, am I doing anything adequately. Maybe I'd ask that.

Oh, he's doing anything, right? Matt, I also don't think I'd say to Jesus. So what about the dinosaurs? Yeah, I wouldn't need dinosaurs next time. I'm not going there. I kind of figured that out. It is an interesting thing. I think it's really neat when you think his

question was, what good thing shall I do? So his model of his ideal is a doing model, not a becoming model. Like what lack I yet is is seeming to get more into becoming, but good master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life, life like you? And he said unto him, why call us thou me good? By the way, this again, still, I can't fathom this. The Savior is saying to him, why call us thou me good? There is none good but one. That is God. Look how single-minded the Savior is. It's not about me. And again, I think he's teaching. I think he understands just like President Hingley understood that that guy didn't have a clue. But this is what he said. And this is something that I think is really important when we're talking about the list-making

approach and the other. He said, why call us Thelmy? There is none good, but one that is God. This is verse 17. But if that will enter into life, if that will enter into life and keep the commandments, what do you guys think entering into life means? When I heard that, I immediately thought if you will enter into life with me, to partaking me as your life, to partaking me as your bread, as your water. If you'll make that covenant and then become alive with me, like we read in 2 Nephi 25, 23 through 27, for we labor diligently to persuade our children and also our brethren to believe in Christ and to be reconciled to God. For we know that it is by grace that we are saved after or in spite of after all we can

do. And notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses. We still live the law and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ until the law shall be fulfilled. For this end was the law given, wherefore the law have become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith. Yet we keep the law because of the commandments, and we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, we write according to our prophecies that our children may know to what source they may look for the remission of sins.

I think he's begging us to become alive in him so that we can experience a happier life. Yeah, get both feet in to this work, to my work. When I hear the phrase, enter into life, I look at this question, what shall I do that I may have eternal life? We all know that immortality and eternal life mentioned in Moses 139 are not the same thing. Everybody is going to be immortal. But eternal life is not just a length of life, but a quality of life.

It's exactly what you're saying, the kind of life that God has. If you want to enter into eternal life, that's what I've always thought it meant. The kind of life that I live, which is, I guess, exactly what you've answered. And he's going to see in a few more verses what that's going to mean. Brigham Young said of Jesus, why should we imagine for one moment that we can be prepared to enter into the kingdom of rest with him and the father without passing through similar or deals? And it's interesting this rich young man, the ordeal was give up your God, give up the money with the other man who wanted to follow the Savior, but I wanna be with you, the Savior's like, great, come with me now. I just need to go bury my dad.

Well, let the dead bury the dead, and you come with me now. It just seems like the Lord is always gonna push us to our highest obstacle so that we can then take it on and overcome it with him. It is, that's why it is probably difficult for any of us to dare ask what lack I yet. Well, let's start here. We almost don't want to attempt it.

I don't know if every meeting house has the same paintings and like there's an official place for each painting or a true and living place for each painting, but as I've gone around to different meeting houses, I've seen the woman at the well in almost ever-release society room. And in foyers, I usually see the rich young ruler. And I see, it's true. Jesus pointing over here in the rich and he's got some fine costly parallel. And that painting is always there. And it looks like Jesus is gesturing to the poor in that painting. So, you haven't given it to the poor. I guess that is a nice reminder to all of us as we through the foyer there of this little story. So, let me now take you to the Mark 10 account.

And in the Mark 10 account, there is something I think that is so revealing about our Savior. So, this young rich man wants this opportunity to have eternal life with God. God tells him to enter into life with him that we read about. He told him to obey the commandments. And in verse 19, in Mark 10, 19,

thou knowest the commandments, do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, defraud not, honor thy father and thy mother." He answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Wow. Okay. He basically said, I'm crushing it. I'm doing a great job.

Then this is the most beautiful thing that I think tells us about our Savior. Verse 21, then Jesus beholding him, loved him. He loved this kid that wants to do well. He wants to do good. He's trying. He's trying. He may not quite get it. And he'd be holding him, just seeing him. He loved him and said unto him, one thing thou lackest. Go thy way. By the way, that is pretty impressive. One thing, I lackest.

I would pump my fifth like, wow. Only one. Go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast and give to the poor and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come take up the cross and follow me. This verse 22 crushes me, and he was sad at that saying, and he went away grieved for he had great possessions. He went away sad. He was grieved. You want me to give up the one thing. Now in my world, a lot of us, I think most of us, all of us, have built an identity on our things, on our titles, on our names, on our degrees, on everything.

And so I really, why I fear sometimes asking what I lack is because he's going to ask the hard thing. And the hard thing is the one you probably most closely wrapped your identity around. It's the thing that has to be a certain way. It's the thing that your fight or flight goes off on a lot. It's the thing that has to be a certain way. It's the thing that your fight or flight goes off on a lot. It's the thing that nobody should mess with. And again, it's in Mark is the only place that this is mentioned that be holding him, Jesus loved him. I love that idea that no matter what,

every rebuke, every correction the Savior makes will start with a really strong swelling of compassion and love. And I really believe because of that mirror neuron thing that we were talking about, when the Savior approaches us with love and he's looking in our eyes, our body and our mind will start to pick up that love. And I think the Savior uses that as a way to help convert us to this change. It's powerful. I love that Mark added that phrase because I just feel like even though we've had some fun with who would ever ask that question, it sounds like this was a good kid.

And that Jesus loved him for that. I also love that the Pharisees, the marriage question, they were like, hey, watch this. They knew they were gonna draw him into a situation where they had the next comment already, ready. This question was sincere. And Jesus be holding him loved him. And maybe someday we'll get the rest of the story. I want to believe that it took him a while

but that he came and followed him. I hope that's what happened. You know, verse 17 at the beginning in Mark also maybe teaches you a little bit more about this boy. I'm because he was a young ruler too. And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running and kneeled to him and asked him. So this boy comes running in and kneels before him. So there is a submissiveness to this kid and there's an innocence to it. Hey, what do I have to do to get eternal life? He's like, hey, you got to do this. I'm already doing all that. I've done it since I was a kid. Okay, here comes the big one. To me, this is pretty much all of us in the church. We're doing great work. Now, there is a component where some of us, we don't have this cockiness or naivete. What we have for some of us is more imposter syndrome, where we don't

think we're good enough. And we don't think we wouldn't be strong enough to go ask the Savior the question. And we would just watch the Savior pass and long to say something like the woman that touched the hem of his garment that kind of had to sneak in for her variety of reasons. But either way, whether you do an over behavior because you're too confident or you do the under behavior because you're not confident enough, either one of those could keep you from God. And we don't want to be kept from God with our over behavior or our under behavior. So we want to start noticing, do I go too over, do I play too hard, or do I play too little? Am I risking enough, am I trying enough?

Am I asking enough? It's powerful. Dr. Robert L. Millett that we've had on the program, he mentioned me one day, you should go read this book. It's called The Gospel According to Jesus by John MacArthur who's a grace to you ministries in Southern California. He took this story apart in a way I had never seen it before. This young man said, what shall I do? I made her eternal life. And Jesus did not say, oh, just confess me as your personal Lord and Savior and you're pretty much done. He gave him a, yeah, sounds to me like works righteousness right there.

That was an amazing, I had never thought of it that way. But Jesus could have said that, oh, just say, I accept you as Lord and make you a savior and make you Lord of my life, and you're done, you're saved, which is kind of the easy beliefism side of it. But I don't want to offend any evangelicals listening. But that was interesting to me that, yeah, he didn't say that. Did he told them to go do something really hard for him? Yeah. Now, I don't think we want to give the idea that money is a sin, that being rich is a sin. There's a verse that everybody quotes, the 1st Timothy 610, where Paul says, for the love of money is the root of all evil, not money itself, but the love of money is the root of all evil. Not money itself, but the love of money is the root of all evil.

But he goes on to say something which I don't hear quoted very often. He says, while some coveted after, they have aired from the faith and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. I'm not quite sure. I know exactly what Paul's saying, but it seemed that he's saying, for the love of money is the root of all evil. And if you chase it, you can chase it at the expense of your faith. And it will leave you pierced with many sorrows. And you're what I call the greatest marriage counselor out there. Have you seen money destroy relationships. Oh, yeah. Honestly, I've seen everything destroy relationships. I've seen success, I've seen jobs. I've seen people say they wanted to divorce over lettuce. That caused a fight. And that turned on the natural man.

I've seen pride, I've seen anxiety, I've seen depression, I've seen mental health, I've seen ADHD, I've seen self-righteousness, I've seen depression, I've seen mental health, I've seen ADHD, I've seen self-righteousness, I've seen controlling, I have literally seen everything, which is why money is an easy one to beat up. I think what the point is, it's the love of anything but Christ, it's the love of anything but God, it's the love of anything but one another. That is why I love Moses and Enic's story where Enic witnesses God weeping. And how can you weep? And he's like, these are my

creations. These are my, these are mine. I've made them. And they don't have that love and affection for each other. So if us not being able to love each other and ourself and God enough to make this work in this paradoxical world we're in, that's what makes our God cry. And to know that we have a God that weeps is powerful. And then to know that someday he's going to run and chase us down like that prodigal son like we learn about in Enic and he's going to kiss us the neck and we're all gonna be able to be there with him It's gonna come back to love. It just seems like what we have to love is love and In the end, this is one of the greatest things I've ever learned in my life was going to church as a 12 year old

And I had a young man's leader named Bart Summers Hayes who would teach me every week just great stuff. He's the first guy that told me, you are going to go to college because I didn't think I'd be going to college. My dad didn't go to college, my mom didn't go to college, my grandparents didn't go to college, I didn't think I was going to college. But this is what he said. And he said this every single Sunday, if at first you do not choose the kingdom of God and his righteousness, it matters not what you've chosen instead. It matters not what you've chosen instead. And so at 12 I learned that at 13 and 14 and 15.

I had this drilled into my head through young men's and now I see it in this weird way. If I'm not choosing a relationship with Christ in the moment, it doesn't matter what I've chosen, whether it's money or a career. And I think we've all experienced, it's never what you think it is. That's why it's paradoxical. Most of us don't actually want what we have. We want more. We want something else.

We want a bigger degree. We want a newer car. We want a faster computer. And yet we have all of these things. So if at first, we're not choosing God, I'm not sure it matters what we choose. Hmm. And so money is just the example here, but it's going to be the thing that you don't want to be asked about. That's what the Savior is going to ask about. And by the way, that's a great key. What is the thing that you know you can't

give up? And whatever that is is the thing you'll eventually have to give up. Yeah, when we have attachments and we have preferences, one of the things that our human mind does is we make a preference. We like things. And the funny thing is the more you like things, the more you become attached to having to need them, and you have to have them around. But I don't know if you notice, it doesn't matter if you prefer not to get cancer. People still get it. And you may not prefer to die, and you may not prefer to lose your job, but your preference kind of doesn't matter. So as soon as you can give up some of your preferences and just allow things to be, that's why the Savior, Am Buddha, and Gandhi and all these people died with nothing because they didn't have attachment to things. The thing didn't matter. What mattered was my love for you and my love for God.

That mattered. Now we have to have things, but the minute the thing becomes a priority, then it's just a thing that's getting in the way. I think the three of us here know people who are wealthy, maybe even really wealthy, who have done great things and have their hearts in the right place. I'm looking at the center footnote on Mark 10. So I'm using the old-fashioned paper version on page 1259. But the JST- Do we still have those? Yeah, I do. I've got one. I dusted it off. It was like Indiana Jones trying to find it.

But this is what Mark 1027 says. And Jesus looking upon them said, with men it is impossible, but not with God, for with God, all things are possible, when they said who can be saved, because a rich man can hardly get into heaven. Here's the footnote, with men that trust in riches, it is impossible, but not impossible with men who trust in God, and leave all for my sake, for with such all these things are possible. And I think the story of the book Mormon is, build your foundation on Christ. But as soon as they prosper, they switch real

estate and start sending their heart to on their riches. Yeah. And that's when all the trouble comes. Because they're trusting in their riches instead of trusting in God. My mission present, many others that we can name, very successful in a wealth sort of way, but they trusted in God. It was, how can I consecrate what I have to bless the kingdom type of thing? And then he magnifies us, he magnifies us. I love this thought by Elder Ucdorf,

where he says, salvation cannot be bought with the currency of obedience. It is purchased by the blood with the currency of obedience. It is purchased by the blood of the Son of God. Thinking that we can trade our good works for salvation is like buying a plane ticket and then supposing we own the airline or thinking that after paying rent for our home, we now hold the title to the entire planet earth. You're blessed. You're given an incredible gift by our Savior.

And all he really wants in return, it seems like is this covenant and this connection to us. As a brother, back to the whole beginning is the end idea. He's bringing us home. There's a great thought that changed me the first time I heard this. Emanuel Swedenborg from Sweden by the way, a Christian theologian who said this. He said, what is our dominant love? What we love constitutes life itself to us. What our love is like determines what our life is like. Therefore, what we are like as human beings.

In particular, it is the love that is dominant or supreme in us that makes us who we are. That love has many loves that are subordinate to it. Loves that derive from it, they take on various guises, but they are all nevertheless present with the dominant love, and together with it make one kingdom. The dominant love acts as the monarch or head of all the rest. It governs them, and it works through them as intermediate goals in order to focus on and strive for its primary and ultimate goal, doing this both directly and indirectly. The object of our dominant love is what we love more than anything else.

And so a really interesting thought of mine is that I always want to make sure I'm seeking the highest, healthiest, purest dominant love. What is my dominant love? And if it's Christ, then everything underneath that love will be added to that love. But if it's money, that's different. If it's fame, that's different. If it's notoriety, that's different.

So a fun thing that we all should be thinking about as we are thinking about these stories is what is our dominant love. And whatever it is that we love the most will become the thing we are becoming. And everything will follow that lead. Spencer Kimball said, whatever thing a man sets his heart and trust in most is his God. And if his God doesn't also happen to be the true and living God of Israel, that man is laboring in idolatry. But what he basically means is we're spinning on the thing that's irrelevant to our existence, but it's occupying our time and space.

It's like your young men's leader said, unless you've chosen the king of a God first, in the end, makes no difference. Yeah, power. Mary and G. Romney said, back in 1949, he said, a half-hearted performance is not enough. We cannot obtain these blessings and be like the rich young man who protested that he had kept the commandments from his youth up, but who went away sorrowful when in answer to the question, what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, if that will be perfect, go and sell what thou hast and give to the poor and come follow me. Evidently, he could live everything but the welfare program.

There can be no such reservation. We must be willing to sacrifice everything. Through self-discipline and devotion, we must demonstrate to the Lord that we are willing to serve Him under all circumstances. When we have done this, we shall receive an assurance that we shall have eternal life in the world to come, then we shall have peace in this world. What lack I yet? You gotta overcome it. And you have the time. We're not saying today, but I think Matt's taught us that eventually it's going to come to a head. Do you love this thing or do you love the Lord? You've got to make a choice. Let's finish today with the prayers of

the Pharisee and the publican, found in Luke 18, 9 to 14. Again, another paradoxical experience, Again, another paradoxical experience. Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a publican, a tax collector. The Pharisee, verse 11 says, the Pharisee student prayed thus with himself, God, I think me that I am not as other men are extortioners, unjust adulterers or even as this publican. He looks at the guy next to him. Yeah. Well, I know what he lacks. Yeah. It's like an interview for a job, right?

I fast twice in the week. I give ties of all I possess. And the public and standing afar off would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other. For everyone that exalteth himself shall be a beast, and he that humbleeth himself shall be exalted. Notice the

paradox. If you exalt yourself, and so if the only way that you can elevate your your persona, your existence, your state of being is to elevate yourself above others, you can't elevate yourself above a child of God without diminishing a child of God. I love the CS quote that there are no mere mortals around us. You're sitting next to somebody that has this divinity inside of them, and if we could see it, we'd want to fall on our knees and worship them. As soon as we have the eyes to see, we'll be able to feel what we need to feel to become more Christ-like, then we'll be able to be motivated to do what we need to do, and then we can actually become what we need to become.

And again, to me, this is a pretty natural thing where as humans and relationships, if I need to pull you under water to keep my point above the water, then that means my point isn't very good. We don't need to compete in all things. Instead, we need to actually learn how great would it have been if that Pharisee could have

learned from the public. And the publicans are tax collectors. Nobody really wants to learn from a tax collector, but it is interesting how humble his prayer was. I noticed that the Pharisee's prayer is missing humility. Right. He's doing a lot of great things, but there's nothing about repentance or what like I yet Nothing like that in his prayer and the minute you're listing anything You're in trouble. He has to list it. There's a little phrase there that I think does that mean what I think it means because it doesn't sound like his

Prayer got very far because in verse 11 it says he prayed thus with himself far because in verse 11 it says he prayed thus with himself. And it just sounds like it didn't even get out of the temple. It was like as soon as he said, I'm so glad I'm not like other people. I didn't go very far. I think. Yeah. It's this self righteousness that gets us in trouble. How does that happen? Yeah, I think again, it's our identity probably trying to validate us in a way. The greatest validation you could have, I think, is to know that you're known by God and know that you're being moved and influenced by him. And to know that you can connect and feel him. If I could feel the spirit of God's atonement and feel it consistently, Henry Eiring taught us that that is a sign that the atonement is working on us.

When we're feeling that spirit, that is the greatest connection I can have to validate us in DNC-121, that's where we learn that our confidence starts to whack strong in the presence of God. So instead of me having to build my identity up, what I can use is my righteousness, my charity, my focusing and taking care of the church, and exercising my priesthood covenants and exercising my marriage covenants

and being there for the people around me, that's what actually elevates my confidence. And then I get a scepter, an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth. My power is unchanging and the thing that I can lean on, the royals used to lean on their scepter to give them stability. So I could lean on my spirit and the spirit of God. And the doctrine of the gospel will distill upon my soul like the do's of heaven. It will just drip down into me, right? And I eventually become God through that process, line upon line. He's changing me one interaction with him at a time. So if I could connect into God ten times a day, 15 times a day, that's the key. Not all these actions are the key.

The key is the spirit of connection that's created in that process. It's that conversion. It's through the spirit. I gained the traits and the gifts of God. It's through the spirit that I become more like him and I'm healed and I'm cleansed. There's a quote by Charlotte Gillum, I ran into a prejudice that quite cut off my view. Right. We look at other people and our prejudice kicks in and we can't see anything else. President Russell Nelson said,

when we choose to repent, we choose to change. When, when we choose to repent, we choose to change. When we choose to turn to God, we choose to change. We allow the Savior to transform us into the best version of ourselves. We choose to grow spiritually and receive joy, the joy of redemption in Him. We choose to repent, we choose to become more like Jesus Christ. And then, of course, Ezekiel 36, 26, through 27, a new heart I'll also will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you and I will take away the

stony heart out of your flesh and I will give you and heart of flesh and I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes. Power. That's really good. Fantastic talk from Elder Ukturff. You are my hands. The sentient of Jesus, the hands were cut off, and so they added a sign that says, you are my hands. And what this publican, I know it's a fictional story, as publican should have seen that everyone is in need of mercy. We all hope that our imperfections can be forgiven. Elder Uktor says, shouldn't we extend to others that which we so earnestly desire for ourselves? Matt, this has been a fantastic day as I knew it would be when I invited you to come on the podcast. Just really good. What do you hope our listeners walk away with after having gone through all these stories?

The main thing is that the complexity and the paradox of life is normal. It's essential. I think another thing that I really want to make sure is that there's a God there that Christ loves you. He is there to teach us how to do this. And if we could do one thing, it's if we could just start to in a more daily way, incorporate them not just in our three prayers of the day, but if we could carry them a little bit more with us. And if we could make sure when we're doing our prayers,

that we're feeling the connection, a real connection to a higher purpose, and a higher God and a higher being. That's what I want, because to have all the promises we have, I'm Stephen Arkevy said, being a member of the church sometimes is like fish discovering water last. We're so in the church that we don't necessarily

fully see the blessings of the church, and he taught his students once, it is possible to be given the gifts of God and eternity and life and not necessarily be receiving them. I don't think we need to think that eventually God will redeem us someday. I like to think that he'll redeem us all day through the day. He'll come back and pick us up through that next situation and through that next situation and through that next situation. And I think he actually longs to be there with us. One final thought that I just thought about and learned that really blew my mind is a lot of us sit on this earth. We seem

to be alone and feel lonely a lot. And we don't seem to have the at-1ment as much as we want with the Savior. But there was a moment where the Savior on the cross had to suffer the allonement and he had to suffer it in a really big way and it was devastating to him because he was one who had always lived with it, lived with his father and been with his father. And the idea that that suffering hit him so hard tells me, but I can live in it daily without it bothering me as much. If we strive to do anything, what if we could just start to become even more used to it? So its absence does impact us. And one way to do that is probably to be looking more to the Savior and Finding him in everything notices we go through these stories. He's in every part of it

And he is the only thing that will bring peace in all of the tragedy and trials and issues that we're gonna face in our life Wow Matt. Thank you. What a great day John What a fun day. We've. We've laughed and cried and learned. Yep. Filled up my margins again. Good deal. You guys are awesome. Thank you for this. Thank you for being here, Matt. We want to thank Dr. Matt Townsend for being here today. We also want to thank our executive producer, the wonderful Shannon Swanson. We want to thank our sponsors David and Verla Swanson. and of course we always remember in our hearts our founder Steve Swarinson. We hope you'll all join us next week. We got more New Testament on follow him

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