Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Matthew 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20-21 Part 2 • Dr. Ross Baron • June 26 - July 2

Episode Date: June 21, 2023

Dr. Ross Baron explores how to find faith in Jesus Christ and the power of the Savior’s greatest miracle.00:00 Part II–Dr. Ross Baron01:35 Bad assumptions03:28 John 6 and Elder Peter M. Johnson’s personal story07:45 President Russell M. Nelson’s “Jesus is always the answer”09:39 Jesus eats12:10 Using the story of the Road to Emmaus to consider our expectations14:20 The Apostles scattered19:48 Elder L. Tom Perry asked why this dispensation won’t apostatize21:20 Resurrection of the body25:49 Eating together and the sacrament28:06 John 20-21 Jesus on the Sea of Galilee31:45 Jesus asks Peter three times35:36 The Great Commission38:53 Why we share the Good News40:13 Elder Marion D. Hanks and the empty egg44:29 The ultimate triumph of the Atonement46:52 Joy in the Resurrection51:02 End of Part II-Professor Ross BaronPlease rate and review the podcast.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.coFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-piano

Welcome to part 2 with Dr. Ross Bering, Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John, chapters 20 and 21. I've always thought the eye, the Lord God, did make coats of skins and clothed them in Moses and in Genesis. If I get the sequence right before they were ever cast out, they were covered, they were covered by Christ by this symbol of a lamb, which is so cool to me to think that we take that symbol with us that we are covered by Christ. Intensely Christian symbol, wherever we go, we have this reminder that we're covered by Christ. What a beautiful thing to start it so long ago that before he cast the mount, I'm going to cover you. So I'm glad you mentioned that. It's beautiful.

I love that. If everything is a type of Christ, I think we've got to have our eyes open to the idea. Gosh, I mean, like, right from the beginning, John, your point is, this is about the Atomina of Christ. We're pointing to Christ. They're redeemed by Christ. And it happened right from the get-go. In fact, John says that Jesus is the lamb

slain from the foundation of the world. It happened before. Yeah. Which sounds so strange, but it's kind of like another colleague we've had on here, Dr. Brad Wilcox, that said the atonement was plan A, not plan B. It wasn't, oh no, Adam and Eve have made a mess of things. Now what do we do? It was, and the Book of Mormon does the same thing, the Atonement, which was prepared from the foundation of the world that John does. This was always plan A. If we could just spend a couple of minutes, I would love for both of you to comment on something. I have in my life, and I'm sure you both have you have experienced this, where someone in my life, and I'm sure both of you have experienced this, where someone is genuinely lost their faith.

Verse 21, we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel. They seem hurt almost as if you could say, I really believed, I really thought it was true. I was really both feet in. And what this chapter teaches me is that we can be faithful, both feet in members of the church and still have bad assumptions about what should happen.

And when those things don't happen, or sometimes with church history, didn't happen the way I assume they should have happened. I do the same thing, these apostles, or these men do. I guess we don't know who the other one is. They're disappointed. Yeah, I'm disappointed. I'm hurt. I thought it was true. And then allowing the Lord through the Spirit to teach you to correct your assumptions using Scripture. Let's correct your assumptions and you'll see that you just,

you just have the wrong idea about what should have happened. Any of that bring anything to memory for both of you? Because I feel for people who think, Hank, I thought, I really was in. And it might be something like, I thought if I lived the gospel, my problems would end. They have that things would work out for me and they haven't. And I really believed. And it's hard to say to someone, well, you had a bad expectation, right?

President O'Kdorf, he said, doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith. I hope you wouldn't be mad at me, but I have doubt your assumptions before you doubt your faith. Analyze your expectations, though. I like to like embrace it. Tell me what the expectation was. Let's have an honest conversation. And a lot of time, it's the humanness of profits or apostles, or members of your ward. And I love to have that conversation. But I also, the John VI account, I don't know about you guys, but it's been super helpful for me to help students. So you guys know the story. Jesus has fed the 5,000 and they're kind of expecting this to be the norm. And Jesus wants no part of that.

He's going to be great. Yeah, this is going to be great. He's going to feed us every day for free. And he doesn't want any part of that carnival. So then he says, except you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no part in me, and then doesn't explain it. Now we're in 2023, we're all like, clearly that's the sacrament. And I can imagine if I could do some emendation that they pulled Peter aside, what does the Lord mean? And Peter's like, I have no idea. And of course, a bunch of people leave because why?

Because of that expectation. And then of course, Christ's great question. Will you also go away and Peter, to whom shall we go? I've had students go, well, but he understood. No, what he understood was that Jesus was the Christ. Peter M. Johnson, he's a general authorities in African American general authority. He spoke at BYU Idaho this year. was that Jesus was the Christ. Peter M. Johnson, he's a general authorities, an African-American general authority. He spoke at BYU Idaho this year, and he talked about how he joined the

church when he was 18 in Alabama and then got called in a mission to Alabama. And he's on his mission in Alabama. He's out, tracking with his companion. He's just on fire. He doesn't know anything about the race in the priesthood. He doesn't know anything about that. So he goes to this door and the sky opens the door and he goes, how can you be a member of that church? He's like, what do you mean? So he hears about the race in the priesthood thing. Freaks him out. So he goes back to his apartment. He won't work the rest of that day. And for two weeks, he's like sulking. He won't talk to his companion. And his companion at the every night.

His companion says, "'Elr Johnson, I love you.' He has a white companion. And so finally he starts, I just got a pray. So he goes to the Lord. The Lord doesn't give him an answer on race and priesthood. He says, Peter, this is my work.

That's it. Elder Johnson gets up, says, Peter, this is my work. That's it. Elder Johnson gets up, says, oh my word, I'm on fire again. And he doesn't have the great reason explanation. He just says, I can bear witness, this is God's work. So I think it's so fascinating that like Peter, Lord to whom shall we go, thou hast the words of eternal life. Peter, I'm Johnson. This is God's work.

Do I have the answer to every question? And by the way, sometimes antize or people disaffected will be like, do you have this answer, John? Do you have this answer, Hank? And we'll be like, what field has every answer to every question? But if you're a Latter-day saint and you don't have every answer to every question,

then somehow we're like deficient. Lame, that is not true. Sometimes you have to be like, Lord to whom shall we go? Peter M. Johnson, this is my work. And you can know that personally. I'm not trying to skirt hard issues. But sometimes we have to wait on the Lord. And I like to say, and what we have it, we talk about in our department, is we have to hold things in fruitful balance. Hank, I've heard you talk eloquently about this idea of incorrect expectations or whatever, and I ache for people that may have jump ship based on something like that. And as we all hope, first principle of gospel is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Not faith in what you want to happen, or maybe even faith in what your expectation is. But as Peter Johnson learned in that beautiful story, this is my work. I've got faith in Christ, so I can keep going. That all the answers right now. I would love to see in Luke 24, 21, is he died. We didn't think he would die, but I still believe that he will somehow work this out, even though I can't see a possible avenue

for him to do so. But Hank, I would even say that the fact that they're struggling and even though they're going home, you can tell in their hearts, they still want to believe. Yeah, they're talking. They're talking about, like you say, they're like very vulnerable at this point. Man, we wanted to believe,

but the fact that they're kind of just still there to me says there is some belief there. And this idea at the end of General Conference April 2023, President Nelson's last talk, Jesus Christ is always the answer. So Peter Johnson goes to the Lord, this is my work. President Nelson's last talk, Jesus Christ is always the answer. So Peter Johnson goes to the Lord, this is my work. Peter, you know, in John 6, Lord to whom shall we turn? I don't know the answer to your question about eating flesh and drinking your blood. I don't get that. I hope one day you'll explain it to us, which you of course

did. But right now, I'm not leaving. I love that, right? I love that. And let me say one other Peter Johnson story if I can because he shared another story. He was a stake president in Alabama and he had an ordinance worker from the temple in his temple district. Come to him, slide his temple recommend to him and say, I cannot support you as an Afro-Gamerican stake president. So I'm giving you my Temple Reckonman back. Now, I think that is, by the way, a great way to open a class and just say, how would you guys respond? So you want to know how Elder Johnson responds?

He looks at the brother and he says, he slides the Temple Reckonman back to him. And he goes, well, the way you're going to know that the Lord called me is by you going to the temple. So brother, I want you to go to the temple and take that to the Lord. How about that? And he does.

And the guy ends up coming back in tears and saying, you are who the Lord chose. So he just turned it on him and said, go to the Savior because Jesus Christ is always the answer. I love it. That when he teaches them, they almost act as if they knew it the whole time, right? I did our hearts not burn within us while he talked with us, his eyes were open. And then, verse 33, they returned to Jerusalem. Right. They're back into the fight.

But one thing we got to realize is he is revealed to them in eating. Again, this is this theme I brought up earlier. So in verse 30, and it came to pass as he sat at meat with them, he took bread and blessed it and break and gave to them, boom, their eyes were opened and they knew him. And he vanished other side. He's revealed. And I want to, I kind of think we all want to make the connection that there's a sacrament idea here But the idea is he was revealed to them and I'm gonna say that the Savior is revealed to us in the ordinance

So let me make this comment based on this first because we had a in my little family with these two little girls We have still at home. We are talking about sacrament and the girls were not kind of getting it and I use this analogy and and this is a big deal in the Middle East But it's not as a big a deal here and that is when you eat with someone in the Middle East You are one you are friends. It's a big it's a big deal So I said to the girls I said what if Lucy my nine-year-old I said what if you know I want to school and I saw you eating with Caitlin? What would I know?

Is she like, what? I go, what I just see you guys a far you're eating together. Oh, you know we were friends. It's exactly right. I go, your friends because you're eating you're at one. You're at one together. He's now eating with them. He blesses you. He's revealed to them in that. And I said, so when we go to the sacrament We get to eat with Jesus She's like, what? I go, that's what we're doing So what if Jesus invited you to eat with him? She goes, that would be amazing. I go he invites us every Sabbath So you never want to miss eating with Jesus. You never want to miss that opportunity because it's in that moment that he's

revealed to us. Isn't that cool? So, abide with me to his even tide. This comes from these verses and then boom, he's revealed to us and then your point did not our heart burn within us while he talked us, by the way. So, as he opened to us the scriptures, the power of godliness section 84 is manifest in the Melchizedic priesthood ordinances. It's manifest there. We can have him revealed when we go participate in ordinances and covenants where we are at one with him. We never wanna break that opportunity.

Awesome. Anything else on the road to a mass? I love that you said, so they, what do they do? Boom, they turn around and they go back another seven miles. Now, I think we could say to any listener out there who's having doubts to use this chapter and say, what, what are your expectations? What thing did you hope for? Did you think was going to happen or should have happened in church history or should have happened even in your own stake? And if that didn't happen, our hearts break for you, but use this chapter as a way to say, you know what, the same thing happened to these men, to Cleopas and his companion, and they

were able to work it out. They were able to work out their disappointment, adjust their expectations, and return back to the fire I like to say. But it's instructive that the Savior used the word of God. Yeah. When I was a new bishop, my stake president interviewed me. His name was Robert Reeves, phenomenal stake president. And he came to me and he said, are you using the scriptures in your interviews?

And I said, no, I'm not. And he said, you need to use the word of God in your interviews. I was, wow, totally changed everything I did. I used the text. I tried to be more like the savior where he opens the scriptures, right? And and helps them. So I think you're 100%. I love that.

But he used the text so that their hearts can burn. Let's let the Holy Ghost do what the Holy Ghost can do. We got to get out of the way. Give room for the Holy Ghost to work. And how is the Holy Ghost going to work? He's going to testify of truth, not of my favorite story, of my favorite application, but of truth. I think that's right on. Well, what a great story. Then here's the next thing. Remember we have the women go to the tomb, first day of the week, early in the morning, we have angelic ministers, the women go and testify to others, they don't believe. And then in this case, we have these two to things.

Now, it says this is interesting, verse 33, and they rose up the same hour, return to Jerusalem, and found the 11 gathered together, and them that were with them. Again, I keep making this point, just not gathered together, and them that were with them. Again, I keep making this point. Just not the apostles. I imagine others were with them, including women, saying, the Lord is risen indeed, and at the pure disseimen.

Now we don't have that in the gospel accounts, but we do have it in 1 Corinthians 15. Paul does list Peter as someone to whom the Lord appeared on that day. So I think it's fascinating. Luke records that. Verse 35, this doesn't seem to be the two. Told what things are done, Wade, and how he was known of them in breaking a bread. So they say, oh, he was appeared to others and to Peter, and they're like, he appeared to us, and they're somewhere in the old city I imagine, somewhere in Jerusalem, at

some home, and then boom, the Savior appears. I love what happens here. And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in midst of them. I'm verse 36, the first thing is peace beyond you. Now one of the contextual things that we haven't talked a lot about going on here, remember that the 12, they all denied him. They all scattered. So Judas is denied him.

They all ran. And I wonder if there's some uncomfortable, so the women go to the tomb, they're mourning, there's got to be some self-disappointment that they kinda your point and Hank with the verse 21, like what's going on and we betrayed him, oh my word, but his first thing is peace be unto you. And if you're Peter or you're one of the other 12, you're thinking, wow, okay, peace be unto you. And if you're a Peter or you're one of the other 12,

you're thinking, wow, okay, peace be unto you. But they're terrified, they think it's a spirit. Again, they don't get it. We're back to we don't get it. All the gospel writers. And then he does this thing in verse 39. He holds my hands and my feet that it is I myself. And then this imperative, 39,

handle me and see for a spirit, half not and bones as you see me have now handle me and see So he comes to the Nephites John. This was your point thirty five eleven I always like to say the father testified we have the voice of the father Then Jesus behold I am Jesus Christ whom the prophets testify should come in the world I'm thirty five eleven And then the people say, Hosanna, and they all fall down. And you could have ended it right there and thought, that's enough. And she's like, no, everyone get up. Everyone's got to get up. Handle me and see a spirit hath not flesh and bones. You see me have now make the connection. So the prophet Joseph has asked, how could we avoid being

deceived? And all 15 year olds know this in any Sunday school class. And this is the whole, you're going to go extend your hand, right? We've got to have the physical connection. We've got to physically know. And I think what Jesus is doing, the Father testifies, the Son testifies, the people testify, but it's not enough. You've got to have this physical experience with me so that you know I am the true messenger sent from the Father. And how are you going to know? You're going to feel the tokens in my hands and in my feet and in my side. And that's exactly what's going on in Luke 24. Exactly.

So the pattern in 3511 is the pattern that going on in Luke 24. Exactly. So the pattern in 3511 is the pattern that went on in Luke 24. And by the way, it's the pattern with Thomas. Remember Thomas, who doubts, and then what does he do? He doesn't just show up and say, Thomas, I'm here. Thomas, you've got to put your hands into my hands

and into my side and into my feet. You've got to know it that way. So you'll know you were not deceived, right? You've got to know it that way. So you'll know you are not deceived, right? You've got to know it that way. A lot of people don't realize, but can we go to section 128 real quick, section 128? And in section 128, I think it's fascinating that there's a little like a verse we don't talk a lot about.

It's in verse 20. You guys know the background of section 180, super excited, he's talking about the work for the dead and brethren go on and all these, the glad tidings. Verse 20. And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Camora, Marone, I, Ansel from Heaven declaring the fulfillment of the prophets,

the book to be revealed. Great. A voice of the Lord and the wilderness of Fayette, Seneca County declaring three witnesses, spare record of the book. Awesome. Now notice this. The voice of Michael, we know Adam is Michael, at Seneca County declaring three witnesses, fair record of the book. Awesome. Now, notice this.

The voice of Michael, we know Adam is Michael, on the banks of the Susquehanna, detecting the devil when he appeared as an angel of light. In other words, even Joseph, apparently, if I'm reading this correctly, was deceived. And Adam or Michael had to show up and help him. No, no, that's not an angel. That's Satan. And then look who shows up very next. Peter James and John. Peter James and John now in the wilderness between harmony, Susquehanna County, they show up. It's not interesting. And then it's what what happens section 129, the very next section is how do I know the difference between a true angel and a false angel? Well, he's going to give us the keys, so by whereby we can detect.

So when the savior shows up, he requires this, so no one could ever say, well, you don't really know. No, no, no, we're going to have this experience. And again, I think it's temple related. I'm not going to say any more about that, but I think it's a very temple related. What happens to a society when you have 2,500 people that one by one get a witness like that? And the answer is, fourth Nephi, you have, surely you couldn't have a happier people because they had such that witness must have just changed everything for them.

Well, I can imagine family night dad tell us again I want to hear the story again I've just always wondered if the reason why the fourth generation starts to to fade after that is because I never knew my great grandparents, but I knew my grandparents and maybe those that were there Started to die off. Because my grandma grandpa told me I was there. And like you said, tell us that story again. Man, that's gonna have an impact. But maybe that generation was all gone

and that's why the fourth generation, that's just a guess. Yeah, I've wondered about that a lot, John. And I think it's interesting that when you have people like Russell M. Nelson, who's in his 99th year getting into the camera and bearing his witness, there's something to it. When you have the 15 who hold the keys and by virtue of those keys bear the special witness of Jesus Christ, I think that's, although I'll tell you an interesting thing, Elder

Elton Perry years ago came to be why you Idaho, we were up in the Taylor building and somebody said, well, why won't our dispensation go into apostasy? That's a great question. He didn't even think about it for one second. He said technology He said we can have the keys anywhere in the world almost instantly Whereas in Paul's time and other people's times they couldn't so things could drift into apostasy quickly Whereas in this dispensation that can't happen. Isn't that cool? Well, I never thought about that. Yeah. Again, I want to let you guys know he did not it wasn't like he had to go Technology

He instantly said it. I thought that was fascinating. You've done a great job of helping us see that he wants people to touch him It becomes important for us to realize that we believe in an embodied God. You both will know more about this than I do, but it seems to me that Christianity is getting away from or has gotten away from the idea that Jesus has a body at all, and yet here he is with a body. I want to get your thoughts on that. I was going to read something from Elder Holland, and then let you both comment on it. This is back in 2007. He said, sometimes, Latter-day Saints are excluded from the Christian category

because we believe, and he throws this in, we believe as did the ancient prophets and apostles in an embodied but certainly glorified God. Then he says, to those who criticize this scripturally based belief, I ask at least rhetorically, if the idea of an embodied God is so repugnant, why are the central doctrines of Christianity, the incarnation, the atonement, and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, all three of which

have to do with His body? If having a body is not needed or not even desirable by God, by deity, why did the Redeemer of mankind redeem his body at all? Redeeming it from the grasp of death in the grave, guaranteeing it would never be separated from his spirit in time or eternity, and then Elder Holland throws this one out. If you dismiss the concept of an embodied God, you dismiss both the mortal and the resurrected Christ. Pretty crucial for us, it seems from Elder Holland to understand that these chapters that Ross that you're walking us through show a embodied Jesus. I love Elder Holland there. I mean, that's Elder Holland,

that is honor, ebest, but still being loving and kind, right? I still remember an experience I had when I was getting my PhD at the University of Southern California with a group of other theological and philosophical students and they kind of turned to me and said, Oh, poor you, you believe that that God has a body, right? And I said, yes. And they're like, Oh, does he have eyebrows, you know, like trying to be sarcastic with me? And I was like, yeah, I just don't know what color they have. And I went to the chalkboard and I said, and the teacher wasn't there yet,

so we were having this conversation on students. And it was kind of fun, but there was a little edge to it. And I said, so, so in the end, you guys don't think God is about it. I don't know. I go, does he have a mouth? Oh, absolutely not. And I said, so you guys believe God is no thing.

And they were like, yes, like an a chorus. Yes. I said, so no guys believe God is no thing. And they were like, yes, like an a chorus. Yes. I said, so no thing. If we combine it, you don't believe God, you believe God is nothing. And they were like, no. And I said, well, then what is he? Why would you deny all that?

And there was no answer. They just didn't like the idea. And maybe the concern was that we were fashioning God as a mortal. And I was like, no, that's the furthest thing from what we're doing here. The resurrection and the savior is embodied and glorified, perfected, non-fallen kind of thing. And by the way, Section 88 verse 15, Restoration Theology, the Spirit and the body are the soul of man. So Section 88 verse 15 and Elder Holland gave, I think, the greatest talk on the

law of chastity using Section 88 verse 15 in his famous soul symbols and sacraments talk. To me, this idea of an embodied God is distinctive Latter-day Saint theology, which on reflection and through the spirit, the spirit bears testimony of its truth. There's no question. To your point, though, Hank, touching me is not going to be enough, by the way. We're going to also eat together. Remember, there's the theme again. We ate with the two on the road to on to the Omeas. He says to them, verse 41, and while they yet believe not for joy, they're like wondering and amazement. Have you hear any meat? Can you imagine that? Let's eat.

And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish and a honeycomb and he took it and did eat before them. Awesome. So not only do we have to touch him, but he's showing his complete embodiment. Yeah. We're not playing any games here. You're not being deceived. You've felt the nail prints in my hands and in my feet. You've put your hand into my side. And now I'm going to eat with you. And they're going to tell people, we ate with them. In fact, they do do that, right?

We ate with him. Like, you have to understand he's a resurrected being. This is part of those pillars where Jesus shows up, peace be unto you. There's a little reprieve for the unbelief. He's gonna make him feel his hands in his feet and then he's gonna eat with them. And again, I think the eating with him

not only is a testimony of the embodiment, but it's also the at-onement. When I eat with you, we are one. I accept you, you accept me and we are together. We don't eat with people, we don't want to eat with. And so he's saying, you're my friends, we eat together. And that's beautiful. And what does he do in 35?

35, 17. I gotta go. Please don't go. Okay, I won't go. He heals everyone. And then what are you doing in 35, 18? We eat together. 35, 19.

He says he's gonna show up. They go down, they get baptized, he eventually shows up, what are you doing, Thirnefi 20? We eat together. There's that thing, we're going to eat, and that's part of this oneness and part of the embodiment, which you talked about. I love that. Good. Any other thoughts about that? Eating? I want to thank you for that, because I've always thought in one way when we go and we see the sacrament table there in the chapel, we're remembering Jesus' sacrifice, his broken body and his spilled blood. But in another way, we're remembering the last supper. And he's inviting us to eat with him again.

I love that you emphasize that. Because I always think it's kind of both. It's like a table of the Lord, but also coming eat with me, which is so affirming To invite us back to eat with him every week and I love the idea of that and I've written down if I see you eating with someone What does that show me? That's great. Oh, and I do that in class. How do I know? I use you somebody in class I go, what if you guys saw me eating with you know John here What would you guys think? Well, you guys are friends or you have some special relationship right on.

And then the other question, John, which is, I love to say this to some of the people I minister to who are less active. If the Savior invited you to eat with him, would you eat with him? Oh, 100% brother Baron. He's inviting you. Why would you not go eat with Jesus? Well, I'd always go eat with Jesus. Okay, awesome. I'll be by to pick you up on Sunday. Good to see you. Look 15, those parables of lost things that starts with this man receive sinners. He actually eats with them. And that's how he has to explain. Wouldn't this be a reason to rejoice? So no one wants to come

and eat with me and repent. Yeah. And we just studied and come follow me as a KS in Jericho. I'm gonna dine at your house tonight. I'm gonna eat with you. Go make ready. He's like, yes. I don't know.

I wanna eat with Jesus. It does send a sign. It sends a signal to both everyone around and to the person. And we should go to dinner after this recording. There you go. We should. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Can we go to the John 21 account now? John, it's interesting. So Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, one chapter. John includes two chapters, or it's divided into two chapters. It's a longer account. You have 20 and 21. The 21 account is phenomenal for what it adds for the depth. So it takes some things and goes deeper. And again, we have an eating theme. So we're

on the north side of the sea of Galilee. I'm going to use elder Holland here because later in a little bit because I mean, no one, I don't think has ever done this better. But in John 21, so you've got seven of the twelve. I don't know where the others are, but you got seven of the twelve, and they're in Galilee, and they're on the north side of the Ciatiberius. Peter says in verse 3, I go aficion. And they say unto him, we also go with the gofician too. Yeah, let's gofician. This is the coolest thing because in this common themes, we're finding in the gospels, the commission has to come.

That the question has to do, so okay, you're resurrected, that's awesome, I'm gonna be resurrected, that's great. What do we do now? What you do is everything has to change now. Nothing can be the same. But they, again, we're bewildered a little bit. He's resurrected, that's great. We're gonna go fishing and of course,

we know the story, this is another, what's called an Incluso. We've got the story, remember, in the beginning of John, when the same story, they can't catch anything. And Jesus is on the shore, verse four, they don't know what's the savior. He asked them, he kind of calls out to them, do you guys have any meat? No. Okay, cast on the other side and they can't draw it for the multitude.

Then of course the beloved says, that's the Lord's Peter and Peter jumps in. And when they get there, verse 9, as soon as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there and fish laid there on and bred. Jesus made the meal. So we're going to eat, but he's the one who made it. The Lord of the universe just cooked bread. I always say, yeah, the galactic God of the universe just made some food for us. That was so nice of it. So they bring the fish in. It's this huge thing. And he says, verse 12, I love this. Come and die. Come and die. And that's the invitation, right this, come and die. Come and die. And that's the invitation, right, to all of us, come and die.

And they knew it was the Lord, so he eats with them. And then the famous, do you love me? Now, may I read the Elder Holland? This is from October 2012, general conference. And I'm going to read a chunk of it if that's okay. And maybe we can comment. Is this where he says, I paraphrase only slightly exactly exactly. He's the paraphrased apostolically. Yeah. So I'm quoting Elder Holland. There is almost

no group in history for whom I have more sympathy than I have for the 11 remaining apostles immediately following the death of the Savior of the world. I think we sometimes forget just how inexperienced they still were and how totally dependent upon Jesus they had of necessity been. To them he had said, have I been so long with you, time with you, and yet has now not known me, but of course to them he hadn't been with them nearly long enough. Three years isn't long to call entire Korma 12 apostles, from a handful of new converts, purge from them the error of old ways, teach them the wonders of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and then leave them to carry on the work until they too were killed,

quite a staggering prospect for a group of newly ordained elders. His apostles did witness him in his resurrected state, but that only added to their bewilderment as they surely must have wondered, what do we do now? They turn for an answer to Peter, the senior apostle. Okay, so then he jumps, I'm jumping, where Peter's there and now they're looking at the fish. Looking at their battered little boats, their frayed nets and a stunning pile of 153 fish, Jesus said to his senior apostle, Peter, do you love me more than you love all this?

Peter said, yay Lord, I know it that I love thee. Then here's the Hank, your point about his apostolic kind of paraphrase, quote, then Peter, why are you here? Why are we back on this same shore by these same nets having this same conversation? Wasn't it obvious then and isn't it obvious now that if I want fish I can get fish. What I need Peter are disciples and I need them forever. I need someone to feed my sheep and save my lambs I need someone to preach my gospel and defend my faith. I need someone who loves me truly truly loves me and loves what our father in heaven

Has commissioned me to do Hours is not a feeble message. It is not a fleeting task. It is not hapless. It is not hopeless It is not to be consigned to the ash heap of history. It is the work of Almighty God, and it is to change the world. So Peter, for the second and presumably the last time, I'm asking you to leave all this and go, teach and testify, labor and serve loyally until the day in which they will do to you exactly what they did to me. My word. Then he says, I'll end with this. After an encounter with the living son of the living God, nothing is ever again to be as it was before. The crucifixion, the atonement, and resurrection of

Jesus Christ marked the beginning of a Christian life, not the end of it. It was this truth, this reality. Now I love this, that allowed a handful of Galilee and fishermen turned again apostles without a single synagogue or a sword to leave those nets a second time and go on to shape the history of the world in which we now live. So I guess my point then in terms of this kind of outline of what all the Gospels have together is Once I know of the resurrection then there's the commission and the commission is then to go teach all Nations you go and you teach Everyone remember second Nephi chapter two how great the importance to make these things known under the children of men

And he was talking about the resurrection. We've got to go tell everyone. But if we go to Matthew 28, we get the most familiar of the commissions, which is so beautiful. And this is, we'll say, starting in verse 16 in Matthew 28. Then the 11 disciples went away into Galilee into a mountain where Jesus

appointed them. And when they saw him, this is very interesting, they worshipped him, but some doubted. Now, I think the word for doubt here is they wavered. I don't think they wavered because they saw him. I think they wavered because they know what's coming. And he assures them the wavers. All power is given unto me in heaven and earth. Oh, God, yeah. In other words, you know what's coming. I don't think I can do this. And I don't think I can do it.

And I think he's saying, you're right. You can't. I can, though. I'll call who I want. And I think it's the same thing with Joseph Smith. I actually think when Joseph gives them the copied kind of things from the book of Mormon to Martin Harris to go to scholars,

it might be somewhere in his heart and mind they are gonna translate. He'll be the custodian of the book. Someone else is gonna do this. I don't know how to do this. I'm not learning. And God's like, I can do my own work. Remember that in 2nd, 527, twice in a row.

I can do my own work. And he's telling the apostles here, all power is given to me in heaven and in earth. So no matter what you're calling or your situation in your family or whatever you're commissioned to do as a dad or a mom or as a teenager or whatever, you're right, you can't do it but God can. And he can do it work with you. So what's the commission? Go ye therefore, teach all nations. Now, this is tough for them. And when we get into acts and come follow me and when you guys do acts,

I think they think teach all nations means cool. We're gonna go find Jews everywhere and teach them. Yeah, go to Jerusalem. We're gonna go, we're gonna go. Man, we're gonna find Jews when we're gonna teach them. But of course their vision has to be extended. This goes back to my theme, John and Hank, that even now they don't fully get everything yet.

From verse one to the end, so teach all nations, we now, I think, get that teach all nations literally means ever for you one. And what are we going to do? We're going to offer ordinances. We're going to baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son of the Holy Ghost. Why? Because when you baptize people, when they enter into the covenant, this is President Nelson. Now I have a unique bonded, I'm bound to him relationship, Matthew 11, 28 and 30. I'm taking upon myself his joke when I voluntarily enter into covenant with him.

I have to be baptized, except I'm going to be born of water in the Spirit. John 3.5, you can't enter the King of God. What else am I going to do? They're going to observe all things, what's the way I've commanded you. Then again, I'm going to reassure you. I told you I had all power. I'm going to be with you all the way, even unto the end of the world. Now I have the commission of what we're to do.

The resurrection isn't just a cool doctrine. It's just not an abstract idea. It's real, but with that reality, it brings a responsibility upon me to act in faith according to the knowledge I have and to bear that witness to others. Unapologetically, absolutely, devotedly, and with the Holy Ghost. That's what we're to do. I don't know if the church has paintings

that are supposed to be in every building, but it seems like in every high council room I've seen there's a painting of the Great Commission, which is this right here, which I always love, because Jesus is glowing a little bit. He's a resurrected being the artist is showing him bright and he's telling them go now go do this And I love the way you said that we offer ordinances Not just a message, but ordinances of salvation. Thank you for saying that

I also think This message that we've been discussing today of the resurrection is the reason. It's why we go to tell people because this resurrected Lord said go tell people. I think it's a missionary aided bothering people. They're like, why can't you guys just believe it? You believe and leave us all alone. And I thought, I'm so sorry. I think now in my 40s, I'd say, look, I don't wanna be here either, but Matthew 28,

the Lord said, go teach everyone. If you have a problem with it, you need to take it up with him. I can help you do that, by the way. And I think the other thing it does is it mitigates the resurrection helps us mitigate the pain of trials and death. I remember Joseph Smith said at a funeral, we mourn, and that's okay. We mourn loss, but we do not mourn as those without hope, because of what we've talked about today. We do not mourn as someone without hope, as that first quote you

shared with us. Exactly. I was going to say too, there's an elder Maxwell quote, I don't have it in front of me, but where he said, the resurrection ended the human predicament. And all of our predicaments now are just personal predicaments that repentance can solve and faith in Jesus Christ. So the predicament of being separated from God, the atonement of the Savior, and the predicament of death, separation in our spirits

and bodies, the human predicament is solved. I love that idea. The human predicament, that's done. So now I have Hank and Ross and John issues because we're trying to work stuff out, and with faith in Jesus Christ, because all power is given to him and heaven and earth, we now can overcome even our personal predicaments. But the human predicament, which philosophers

and existentialists are always ringing their hands about, that part's done. And the resurrection is the absolute witness that that is done. Do you remember Elder Hanks of the Choram of the 70? He gave a talk in April 1992 and he told a story, if I may, I love the stories it relates to the resurrection. I'm quoting. As Easter time approaches, let me share with you the tender story of an 11 year old boy named Philip, a down syndrome child who was in a Sunday school class with eight other children. Easter Sunday, the teacher brought an empty

plastic egg for each child. Remember those little eggs? You know, the egg that you can open, it's empty, you know, empty little egg for each child. They were instructed to go out of the church building onto the grounds and put into the eggs something that would remind them of the meaning of Easter. All returned joyfully as each egg was open. There were exclamations of delight as at a butterfly, a twig, a flower, a blade of grass. Then the last egg was opened.

It was Phillips, the Down syndrome child, and it was empty. Some of the children made fun of Philip and laughed. But teacher, he said, teacher, the tomb was empty. A newspaper article announcing Philip's death a few months later noted that at the conclusion of the funeral, eight children marched forward and put a large empty egg on the small casket. On it was a banner that said said the tomb was empty. Wow. And I think that was your point earlier that it gives you hope. We do mourn. We cry at funeral section 42 says,

thou shalt weep for the loss of the level one. That's fine. But our weeping is different. We took our first son to the empty sea. We cried because we were going to miss him. But we wouldn't have wanted him anywhere else. We were mourning because we would miss him, but we weren't mourning because he wasn't where he was supposed to be. And second, E.F.I.9-6, death is part of the merciful plan of the great creator. I love that. That's so good. So I had stage four cancers, and stage four cancer is bad because stage five cancer is the spirit world and so I had stage four cancer and I had chemo and I had radiation. I had surgeries, but I was for whatever reason I was healed Whatever in God's economy. I was healed

But the truth is I'm going to die. We're all gonna die and so President Nelson back in October of 2005, then elder Nelson, I think he made a powerful comment that we have to remember. He says, quote, the gift of resurrection is the Lord's consummate act of healing. Thanks to him, each body will be restored to its proper frame and perfect frame. Thanks to him, no condition is hopeless. Thanks to him, no condition is hopeless. Thanks to him, brighter days are ahead, both here and here after. Real joy awaits each of us on the other side of sorrow." My body is going to deteriorate and I'm going to die, but because of Jesus Christ,

it is the consummate act of healing. The resurrection is what heals us. That is the consummate act of healing. And then you quoted Joseph Smith, and I have my last quote, teaching the Prophet Joseph Smith page 296, all your losses will be made up to you in the resurrection, provided you continue faithful. And then I love this from Joseph.

By the vision of the Almighty, I have seen it. I mean, it's just incredible. Again, as I started, it's real for me. It's visceral for me. And I just, unassumably, devotedly, unapologetically, testify of the reality of the resurrection, of the gospel accounts, of the latter day day accounts of the prophet Joseph Smith's accounts It is real and it is power and we can all know it. We can have the Holy Ghost bear witness to us and it's true He is not here. He is risen. And that's the title of course of the come follow me As he said Remember what he said. Yeah, remember what he said so may the Lord bless us all that we can get it.

Whatever things we're not getting, that my eyes will be opened, that my heart will be soft, and that I'll get it, and then act in accordance with that. And then again, take the commission. We know the Resurrection is real. We've got to go share it with everyone, and we have to offer ordinances both to the living and the dead and gather in Israel.

I just really enjoyed this and I like what President Hunter Howard W. Hunter said once, without the resurrection, the gospel becomes a litany of wise sayings and inexplicable miracles, but without any ultimate triumph. Well, he said a lot of wise things, and there were some healings, but without the resurrection, what's the point? In a way, that's interesting. The Howard W. Hunter quote goes back to the Paul, quote, and Romans declared to be the son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead. There you go. I wanted to read something from Brigham Young before we wrap up. We talk about our trials and our troubles here in this life,

but suppose that you could see yourself thousands, millions of years after you have proved faithful during the few short years, short years in this world. And have obtained eternal salvation and a crown of glory in the presence of God, then look back upon your life here. See the losses, the crosses, and the disappointments and the sorrows. You would be constrained to exclaim, what of all that? Those things were a moment, and we are now here.

We have been faithful during a few moments in our mortality, and now we enjoy eternal life and glory, with power to progress in all the boundless knowledge and through the countless stages of progression, enjoying the smiles and approbations of God the Father and Jesus Christ his Son. That to me is the resurrection. We'll give you that. You can give you that perspective. Have you ever heard the epithet that Benjamin Franklin wrote for himself obviously before he died? Have you ever heard it before? He said, the body of B. Franklin, printer, like the cover of an old book, its contents torn out and stripped of its lettering and gilding lies here, food for worms. But the work shall not be wholly lost, for it will, as he believed, appear

once more in a new and more perfect edition, corrected and amended by the author. The author being Christ. Beautiful. That's great. What do you hope our listeners who are folding laundry or mowing the lawn or out for a walk or listening on a long drive, what do you hope they go away with? I get asked sometimes because Hank and John, we've been on the show a couple times I've met you guys and what you see is what you get with me and I'm pretty, I'm a happy guy. It's not that I don't have trials, but I try to be a good cheer and sometimes students will ask me, like, beginning a class,

I haven't started class yet. And they'll be like, brother, they're like, what's your problem? Why are you so upbeat? Why are you so happy? And I'll say, because the resurrection's in place. And they'll be like, what? And I'll say, because there's nothing you can do

to not be resurrected. That's a funny way to put it. I go, you just try and be not be resurrected. You're coming out of the tomb. to not be resurrected. That's a funny way to put it. I go, you just try and be not be resurrected. You're coming out of the tomb, you're getting resurrected. I go, Jesus is the Christ, the resurrection's in place, and the plan is true, and that's why I'm so happy. Because the kind of the ups and downs of the days and the stock market goes up, the stock market goes down, or there's different issues in our family. But in the end, in the end, the resurrection's real, and Jesus is the Christ. And that's what gives me joy and happiness.

So the guy more in the lawn, or taking a walk, or folding laundry, this is real what we're talking about. This is real. And Hank, you mentioned the word perspective, and we can get mired and distracted like Mary Magdalene at the tomb, and where we don't see Jesus standing in front of us. And so I pray every day that I'll have eyes to see, and that the Lord will bless me, but it's in place,

and that is the joy, and that is the glory of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Beautiful. John, what a great day. Yeah. What a great day. I got a lot of notes today. I can't wait. I've got big stars next to thing. Put this in my 211 class. These common themes that happened in each of the gospels. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. We want to thank Dr. Ross Barron for being with us today. It's been fantastic. We want to thank Dr. Ross Barron for being with us today. It's been fantastic. We want to thank our executive producer, the amazing Shannon Swanson,

our sponsors David and Verla Swanson, and we always remember our founder Steve Swanson. We hope you'll join us next week. We got more coming on Follow Him. Today's transcripts, show notes, and additional references are available on our website, followhim. website, follow him.co, follow him.co, and you can watch the podcast on YouTube with additional videos

on Facebook and Instagram. All of this is absolutely free, so be sure to share with your family and friends. To reach those who are searching for help with their Come Follow Me study, please subscribe, rate, review, or comment on the podcast, which makes the podcast easier to find. Thank you. We want to thank our incredible production crew, David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Nielsen, Will Stoten, Crystal Roberts, and Ariel Kuwadra. We also love hearing from you, our listeners.

Good morning, Hank and John. Thank you for all you have done for us. We take you walking with us every single morning, and this week we're in Costa Rica, finishing up a beautiful trip. We are so excited every week to listen to the message. You guys have done a wonderful job including this week, but we're here because we're about ready to start our mission.

We are looking forward to being companions with each other and serving in the Fort Worth Texas mission and being able to do all the weekend to support the mission president and all the wonderful missionaries there. And we will continue, I repeat, continue to listen to come follow me with you. We are so appreciative of all the wonderful guests you have. Wow, we have learned so much over the past years from you and your guests and just are so appreciative. So thank you, Karyon, you've changed the lives of hundreds and thousands and ours included. We love you.

So thank you. We love you. You're doing a good thing.