Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Matthew 3; Mark 1; Luke 3 Part 1 • Dr. Shon Hopkin • Jan. 23 - Jan. 29

Episode Date: January 18, 2023

How do we prepare to meet the Lord? Dr. Shon D. Hopkin examines the baptism of Jesus Christ, his relationship with John the Baptist, as well as the nature of repentance.Please rate and review the podcast!Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.coApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/follow-him-a-come-follow-me-podcast/id1545433056Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/15G9TTz8yLp0dQyEcBQ8BYThanks to the follow HIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith, and I'm John by the way. We love to learn, we love to laugh, we want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. Hello my friends, welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith and I'm your host and I'm here with my immersive co-host, John, by the way. That's a new one, immersive.

You're immersive. I bet you can't guess what we're going to talk about today. Let me think there's got to be some sort of immersion experience coming up here. Yes, yes. This is going to be an immersive experience as we talk today. We are back. Another lesson in the New Testament. This has been fantastic so far. We have another New Testament expert to join us. Yes, we do. I think our guests will remember Sean Hopkins, who's been here before. And let me remind you about Sean.

He was born in Denton, Texas, the son of Lorraine Hopkins and Arden Hopkins. He attended Southwest High School in Fort Worth, Texas, the son of Lorraine Hopkins and Arden Hopkins. He attended Southwest High School in Fort Worth, Texas, graduated from Oram High School, received bachelor's and master's degrees from BYU in Near Eastern Studies, with a focus on the Hebrew Bible, and a PhD from the University of Texas at Austin in Hebrew Studies, with a focus on medieval Hebrew, Arabic, and Spanish literature. I just

love the backgrounds of these people we bring on Hank. Our audience talks about it too. People come up to us, where do you find these people? Before coming to BYU, he taught in the seminaries and institutes at Timfew High School and four years at Provo High School, six years at the Austin Institute of Religion. He serves as the chair of Book Mormon Academy and chair of B.O.U. religious outreach council. Right now you're the chair of ancient scripture. I get that right. I have to get that right because you're my boss. This, I want to make sure this is updated. Do you have four children, one grandchild? Thank you two grand children. Thanks for that catch. Bennett and Brielle now about four months old.

Wonderful. I'm a new grandpa too and I had no idea how much fun this would be. Or just bring that kid over here so we can play with him. So, hey, we're really glad to have you back excited for your insights on the early new testament today, some of these early chapters. Thank you. I hope everybody woke back up after you read the little phrase about medieval studies, which I find thrilling and we will be talking about all day today. So glad to be with you, Hank, John, my good friends, and really enjoy this. And you did here in John's intro that an old Testament Hebrew scholar, but I've done some work in Greek, but if I mispronounce the Greek, please do not hold it too strongly against me. So this is a good space for me, but my Greek is not quite as far along as my Hebrew is.

I just can't wait to say it's all Greek to me. I just couldn't wait. But Sean, one of the things we are hearing back me up on this Hank from a lot of our listeners is just last year with Old Testament, this was so great in helping me understand the Book of Mormon more and the New Testament. I'm glad you come with that background because there's so much we're going to see Matthew's going to repeat things from the old in the New Testament and to see those connections is going to be worthwhile today. For our listeners. Well, I totally agree with that actually. You don't

get very far into the chapter we're going to be covering today before there is some Hebrew Bible showing up. And it's all intertwined. It really is. They flow into each other. And I think Latter-day Saints are oriented to trying to understand all the scriptures in one. We learn that from the way Jesus taught in the Book of Mormon. And to me, that's deeply satisfying seeing the way that the scriptures intertwine. Beautiful. Well, let's do it. The lesson has a spending time in Matthew 3, Mark 1, and Luke 3. The title of the lesson is, Prepare ye the way of the Lord.

Sounds like we may be talking about John the Baptist, is that right John? Yes, okay, so we've got John the Baptist, we've got the baptism, Christ's baptism, which is extremely important, of course, so this is a big deal today. We're going to spend our time primarily in Matthew 3, if that's okay with the two of you, and we may wander else. We're just a little bit into Mark 1 and Luke 3, but primarily in Matthew 3. And I am hoping that we can take a running start to get there. You have covered Luke 2 and had some discussion about the very little bit we have from Jesus's childhood. But Matthew 3 is the next time we see him, I want to connect some dots.

We may talk about this differently than you have as you were discussing Luke 2, but I suspect we'll do some similar things. We won't spend tons of time here, but could we go backwards? I said we're going to be primarily in Matthew 3, but now if we could go to Luke 2, there's 2 verses that I want us to look at. And again, you've discussed these. So we don't want to spend a lot of time here, but if you look at Luke chapter 2 verse 40, this is sort of the last we get of Jesus is this Passover feast where he is 12 years old. You see that in verse 42.

When he was 12 years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. But go backwards to verse 40. The child grew and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom and the grace of God was upon him. I think all of us can picture Jesus in maybe different ways, and there's probably truth to all of them, but if you think of, I have a really amazing nephew, Jackson. Seems like he was born an old soul, so to speak. He's contemplative. He is cute as can be, and smiles a lot, but pretty serious, you know, a thinker, it seems like, but he's very young.

But then you've got others that just have this sort of fresh innocence. My grandson is just bright eyed and highly energetic. So in all of those child-like attributes, we can imagine Christ, this idea of he whacked strong in spirit, filled with wisdom. And of course, I'm talking about little children, almost infants and then toddlers, but then as he's growing older, think of a seven-year-old, an eight-year-old, a nine-year-old, a ten-year-old, with just a lot of goodness, a way of looking at the world that you sense wisdom at a young age. And then, of course, we're talking about the Messiah,

the Son of God here. I'm guessing little children are coming to each of your minds as these examples of innocence and goodness. So that's verse 40, and then of course we have the Passover experience when you get this hint that he understands more of what is going on here, that he's beginning to come into his own. of what is going on here that he's beginning to come into his own, wish G-NOT that I must be about my father's business. He gives this, I don't know if it's a mild teaching, a review is probably too strong to his beloved mother there when she recommends him. I have to be about my father's business. So there's this sense he's beginning to understand things more deeply. I have wondered at times if he knows anything yet about the

atoning sacrifice, if he's begun to understand things, and then this is all speculating. But as he's looking at those Passover sacrifices, is there some soberness that comes upon him? Is this maybe the beginning of, oh, this may prefigure my role. And then you get this beautiful verse that has been used in the youth programs, a lot of times to encourage youth and encourage each one of us, Jesus increased, this is verse 52, Jesus increased in wisdom and stature

and in favor with God and man. And of course, you talk about intellectual, physical, social, spiritual, and you just think of Christ developing. With that, now let's go over to Joseph Smith Matthew. You find this at the tail end of Matthew 2. If you look at Matthew 2 verse 23, I think it's footnote C, that then leads you to the appendix, and you can read what the JST numbers as JST and Matthew 3, 24, 3, 26. We only have this from the JST. Another childhood growing up reference came to pass that Jesus grew up with his brethren and waxed strong and waited upon the Lord for the time of his ministry to come and he served under his father.

We would assume that could either be Joseph, who of course isn't his biological father, but could be Joseph or it could be the father, Heavenly Father, and he spake not as other men either could he be taught. Now, I don't read that as he's unteachable. I read that. He's an active learner, so to speak, that he is anxiously engaged and so he's listening and he's learning, but there's this wisdom that's flowing at the same time. Well, this is going to sound a little weird when we equate it with Christ. Remember in Perla Great Price, Enic is described, there's a wild man among us. He say, well, what does that mean?

What I've taken that as meaning is, he's not following societal norms because he's following spiritual truth. He's following what he's learning from his father. Sometimes he's going to be kind and sympathetic when anybody else would be angry. And other times he's going to be maybe angry or see something wrong where others wouldn't pause to see something wrong. You would love this child and then teenager and then young man for his wisdom. Think of if you had a friend who didn't have

any guile maybe you can think of somebody like that and you just have this sense that they love you deeply and completely and how those friendships would grow but maybe that person would challenge you and challenge the weakness in you as well in ways that were uncomfortable at times I don't know I'm just thinking through the lead up to Matthew 3. Well, so let's finish reading that. He served under his father. He spanked out his other men.

Neither could he be taught. For he needed not that any man should teach him. After many years, the hour of his ministry drew nigh. So that then leads us to Matthew 3. And of course, we're going to start with John the Baptist. But a little bit more. Is it okay, Hank and John, if we talk a little bit more about the lead in here?

Please do. What a great JST there. I hate that these are all hidden back in the appendix. It makes it so hard. Yeah, when they're in the appendix instead of just being able to look straight down on your foot notes. And now of course with our electronics scripture, sometimes they get hidden, you don't even see them.

Although, once you find them, then they're probably easier to access because you just click the button and you're there. And in fact, that JST, as we've said, is just an addition, there's nothing else there that it's sort of modifying, and it's emphasizing the relationship of Christ with the Father, it would appear to me,

and certainly his spiritual wisdom and that there are things going on. And then we have this sacred silence that's there over his teenage years and I think we long and teenage they wouldn't have thought of it in those terms of course. But one more thought experiment if we could and then maybe we could pause and sort of contemplate any application that would come. The fact that Jesus is sinless, and that's going to become very clear in Matthew 3, when John is baptizing unto or for repentance,

and when Jesus comes, Jesus says, you don't need to be baptized. And it seems to be this nod that, what are you talking about? You don't have things to repent for, and then Jesus says, suffer it to be so. And then Jesus says, Sufferate to be so. For thus, it become with us to fulfill all righteousness. And of course, Nephi is really going to talk a lot about the reasons why Jesus needed

to be baptized. So he's clearly sinless. And I just wanted to do a little thought experiment with everyone about what that may mean that I have found helpful. And I find it helpful with my students. Does the fact that Jesus is sinless mean he doesn't cry as a baby and of course not. I mean that's silly.

Of course he cried as a baby. Does it mean he doesn't a soil is diaper or that he never trips and falls? No, of course. He's going to trip and fall. It has to learn how to walk. And then the verse that we didn't quote is doctrine and covenants, 93, where we're taught, Jesus grows from grace to grace. And then we could sort of go further and say, well, does Jesus ever fall asleep during synagogue. And now I don't know the answer to that one, but he is mortal. He has mortal weakness so to speak. He's a human. He needs food. He needs sleep. Yes. As his

father's training him as a craftsman, does he ever make a mistake as he's carving something or as he's crafting something, building something. Probably, certainly nothing wrong with making mistakes. Did he ever make a mistake because he just didn't hear it perfectly? I can certainly picture that. Does he ever have an awkward human moment or interaction where it's uncomfortable or does he always say exactly the perfect thing all the time is that what it means to be Sinless and of course now we're delving into questions. We just don't know the answers to but as we consider that then I think what starts to be revealed to me or what I start to feel is that Where does he cross that line? Will any moment of rebellion or a rebellious attitude never, never, ever as I

ponder my own life, I think some time the things that I'm embarrassed about and give me pain aren't the things that actually matter a lot in the overall scheme of things. And I try to ignore my rebellious spirit and not account that as sinful, but that sometimes the mistakes in the things I say or, you know, I fall asleep at the wrong time or something like that, then I feel a lot of guilt for those, and I'm really embarrassed for those, I feel shame for those. And I just think I don't know what equals sin or what doesn't equals sin in Jesus' sinless life.

I know he was sinless. And I certainly know he was never rebellious. That resonates deeply with me. I say, I certainly know that resonates deeply with me. And I think as we think about Jesus' sinless nature and what that may or may not mean, it actually helps us zero in on what it means to grow from grace to grace, and to grow in stature and in wisdom with God and men. So just a little thought experiment I wanted to engage in.

I don't know if there's any thoughts you've had as we've sort of discussed that. I like that a lot. I think it was Elder Scott who used to say the Lord treats rebellion and weakness differently. Those are not the same thing. And you're right. I have a tendency to be ashamed of my weaknesses when I probably should be a little bit more zeroed in on my rebellion.

That was a great thought. I don't like it when I get called out like that, Sean, but it is helpful. That was the goal. I was really thinking about you, Hank. That was the thing, I was really thinking about John, actually. Mr. Rebellion himself is.

That's right. Well, and these are tender topics. Those listening may think, no, that's not. He wouldn't have tripped and fallen down. But we don't know. And I'm not trying to say that I know what I do deeply believe. And I'm deeply committed. And Matthew 3 is clear.

Jesus was sinless and he had to grow grace to grace. He had to progress, there had to be movement, there had to be learning, he has to be improving and gaining increased knowledge and we're gonna get to the end of Matthew 3 here at some point. We're gonna get to the end of Matthew 3 and see another really important moment and Jesus I wouldn't say he springs on the scene fully formed yet. It's not the end of his mortal story yet where then he's going to die and be resurrected and exalted.

And so he's still learning. And that seems pretty clear, but wow, he's a long ways along the path. And I think then one other little thought, if I think about all the ways that I slow down my own progress by my own fears, by my own doubts, by my own closed off nature between me and God and how sweet and good it is to just be open and vulnerable before God and before others.

And I mean, in healthy ways there, how much God could just really elevate us as we seek to honor Him. I think each of us have had those times in our lives when we're better at that and all the sweetness of it and mortality, it has its challenges. But I love pondering on Jesus, I guess. And what he teaches me, what his life teaches me about my own life and how I can understand this mortal journey.

Thanks for taking that little journey with me. Any examples with your own children coming to mind, as you think through that? You keep using this term, Jesus growing grace for grace. I just want to make sure that we appreciate the prophet Joseph Smith in section 93 of the doctrine of covenants for that. The idea that Jesus is mutable, that he's changing. Doesn't that make us heretics for a lot of the Christian world? Certainly, it is a debatable fact across Christianity, what this looks like. There's a series that's popular right now,

and I think it's been so popular because it shows Jesus both is divine and human and it sort of emphasizes, and I think, beautiful ways, his humanity. And I think we also long for that, but understanding the interplay of those two things is very difficult, but this idea of Jesus, the mortal as mutable, as learning, as growing. And let's do just take a moment

and read Doctrine and Covenants 93. I'm there and I can read it. It's verses 11 through 14. I remember studying section 93 back when we had Casey Griffiths on our program. He said here Joseph Smith takes millennia of debate between the divinity and the humanity of Christ. And addresses it in an afternoon in 1833. That tends to be the way that the Lord worked through him. Like these thorny issues and then just cut through them. And this is another example. I love that Hank. Thank you. So 11 through 14 and I, John, and most Latter-day Saints who have studied this closely think, I wouldn't say we're 100% sure,

but think that John is quoting something from John the Baptist now. So we're getting something that originally came from John the Baptist, which is sort of fun because we're going into Matthew 3. And I, John Bear Record, that I beheld his glory as the glory of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, even the spirit of truth which came and dwelt in the flesh and jeweled among us.

And I, John, and this is the moment, saw that he received not of the fullness at the first, but received grace for grace. And he received not of the fullness at first, but continued from grace to grace and he received not of the fullness at first but continued from grace to grace. There's an interesting change very mild but interesting change in language. He received grace for grace and then he continued from grace to grace until he received a fullness and thus he was called the son of God because he received not of the fullness at first. Now Abinadi is going to talk about this and he may not be talking about exactly the same thing, but it's similar where he says, Christ is both the Father because he has the power of the Father and he does the will of the Father and he is the Son by virtue of his flesh and look at this in verse 14. And thus he was called the Son of God because he received not of the fullness at first Hank, the way you've talked about it, God, Christ as mutable or changeable or progressing. And that is a fascinating thing to understand, Christ as sinless and as learning at the same

time. That's a pretty joyous way to think about mortality. And it's not a shame ridden sort of, oh, I got to be perfect all the time and mortality. No, I'm learning, we're growing, it's progress. If I were to pull in something else, 2nd Nephi 32, when he says, when you get the Holy Ghost, you're going to speak with a tongue of angels. I love that. You got to learn a new language.

You're immortal, but you're trying to speak a heavenly language. If you think of language acquisition, you make a lot of mistakes. The idea is you need to make a million mistakes to learn a language. And if you think of language acquisition, you make a lot of mistakes. And the ideas you need to make a million mistakes to learn a language, get going, get started and make in your mistakes. And I don't think when we're learning Spanish or whatever language, and we make mistakes, we would ever think of those as sins, there are effort to learn and progress and to grow. So again, I don't know the boundaries of all of that. And some of those who are listening, I'm sure have some of their own feelings about that and I don't mean that I've got the right answer there,

but I do think that the thought exploration can yield some powerful things in our own lives and that the Spirit may direct some of that exploration so that we learn some things that we need. You see a child learning to walk, you wouldn't say that a child falling down is somehow sinning by making those mistakes. And we can see that in our own children. I can see that in my own children all the time that the difference between rebellion and weakness is pretty stark.

I like this discussion because as a kid, I used to wonder about being perfect. I wondered what a perfect 100 yard dash time is. It is 10 flat, the perfect time, but if you're perfect, maybe you can do it in 5 flat. It's really helpful, I think, to talk about it as rebellion because I think that helps me understand the opposite of rebellion might be meekness. And meekness is a trait that my students and I have struggled to understand because the world's definition of meekness is what was it? We looked it up on dictionary.com once and it was like

weak, spineless, tame, and I thought, well, that's not Captain Moroni. And if all men had been likened to Captain Moroni, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever. So, do we want to be weak, spiritless, and tame? But then we see Maroni who gives such deference to God always takes the blame when things go wrong, always gets credit to God when things go right. And that helped us understand meekness just by looking at Captain Maroni's deference to God to the Savior. I like the way you put Rebellion as a definition of sin there. Did can I add one more thing in section 93 that you said was kind of comforting to see I John saw that he received not of the fullness at first, but received grace for grace and I'm looking to my dad's scripture He's got an arrow pointing over to verse 20 where Jesus says therefore therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace. And it's one of the wonderful things I love about section 93, verse 21, I was in the

beginning with the father in verse 23. Guess what? You were also in the beginning with the father. This is a really nice section for that sort of a thing. So I like what you said. I'm gonna remember that rebellion is kind of what we're talking about when we're talking about sinless life. Yeah, being sinless, Jesus never had a rebellious spirit in him. I have a really hard time imagining him rolling his eyes at his mom or his dad, right? But I could imagine him possibly sleeping past his alarm.

You know, I didn't have an alarm, but I could imagine that a little more easily, and I don't know. And then I think of my own sort of young teenage years and the progression there. And I liked hearing you talk about that, John, because I can remember I have got this memory of walking along the track.

I think I was in seventh grade, and it was PE, beloved, slash dread of walking along the track. I think I was in seventh grade and it was PE beloved slash dreaded And I don't know what was pressing on my soul or what we've been talking about in church But I was thinking about perfection and how oppressive that idea felt wow. I can't even have a personality. I just have to be Serious all the time and I think the two of you model that you don't have to be serious all the time. And I think the two of you model that you don't have to be serious all the time. I mean, yeah, that's sinful after right there. We're in such trouble.

And then I thought, wait, my two biggest religious heroes besides Christ, Joseph Smith and Gordon B. Hinckley, and at the time it was actually Spencer to the Kimball and then we could talk about President Nelson. These are not people who lack personality. You can be serious, that's great, but God brings those things out and we get to be ourselves and it's a journey and we're just growing, grace, for grace. Let's do go into Matthew 3 and if it's okay, we're going to read most of this chapter about 17 verses long and we'll just sort of work our way through it. Let's do the first two verses. Okay. We love reading the actual verses of scripture on follow him. Don't we Hank? So yes. Okay. How many verses first three? Let's just do the first two. In those days came John the Baptist preaching in the wilderness of Judea and saying, repent

e for the kingdom of heaven, is it hand? So all kinds of things here and I'll try not to belabor any of these points too long, but pause me if we want to talk about any of these a little bit further. John the baptizer, this is how he is known. Let me just pause there with his name and mention that we have a statement from Josephus, who is an early Jewish historian. While I say early, he lived during the war in 70 AD. We're now pretty close to his lifetime here,

and he may have been alive during this time. He describes John the Baptist, and most scholars, Josephus scholars actually think this is legitimate. It wasn't added later. There's not a lot of debate around the statement. And one of the reasons is because it's slightly different. He talks about John slightly differently than the New Testament does, which is not a surprise because he's an outsider to the things going on. So I thought it would be fun to hear the way Josephus talks about John the baptizer and this is in antiquities 18. So let me read this to you. Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from God that that very just lays a punishment of what he did against John that was called the Baptist. Here's Josephus an external source talking about the figure and he's going

to describe him in much more influential terms than we even get in the New Testament. The New Testament, he is the forerunner to Christ. And we get this sense that people are attracted to his message, but it's always sort of in the context and the New Testament of, he's the prepare of the way, which is because that's true. But Josephus doesn't describe him that way. John that was called the Baptist, for Herod slew him who was a good man and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another and piety towards God and so to come to baptism, for that the washing with water would be acceptable to him if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away or the remission of some sins only but for the purification of the body,

supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified before him by righteousness. There's some religious commentary here about what he's understanding baptism to be. It's really fascinating. Now, when many others came and crowds about him for they were greatly moved by hearing his words, Herod, who feared less the great influence John had over the people might put it into his power and inclination to raise a rebellion. And you can see these concerns as soon as you have someone who's gaining a following, oh no, there's these, we messianic expectations, we can't have this. And the Jewish leaders tends to be sensitive before it ever gets to the Romans being sensitive.

They're like, oh no, we're gonna lose. This is gonna get out of control. So who feared less great influence, John had over the people might put it into his parent enclazed a raise rebellion, for they seemed ready to do anything he should advise, thought it best by putting him to death to prevent any mischief he might cause and not bring himself into difficulties by sparing a man who might make him repent of it when it should be too late. Accordingly, he was sent to prisoner out of Herod's suspicious temper to McKarris, the castly before mentioned, and was there put to death. That's the story of John from Josephus. I don't know if any of you have been to Macarice, that's one of the places we take BYU students during the study abroad program.

So it's over in Jordan, which would have been considered part of land was on the other side of the Jordan and in the nation we call Jordan today. You can go visit the remains of one of Herod's palaces there in Macarice. Sort of fascinating. John was a big deal, I guess, is one of theod's palaces there in Macarath. Sort of fascinating. John was a big deal, I guess, is one of the things that we should say here. John was a big deal, I like that. And isn't John in every one of the gospels

touches on John? Yeah, Will said. And then later on, he's gonna sort of weave through the gospels, sort of pop in and out as an important figure. And then this touching moment later on when he's talking about Christ, he says, he must increase, and I'm gonna miss quote this a little bit,

but I decrease. And this, I think gives some context for that, that he was so important that Josephus, he spends longer talking about John than he does talking about Jesus, Josephus does. That's sort of the way, is it he saw it. I inherited from my dad those three volumes of Josephus, but I confess, I had it cracked open.

There's one thing I use about the destruction of Jerusalem, this Josephus is really graphic about how bad that was, the 70 AD thing, but I gotta look that up. So which volume was that in, what you just said? So that was the antiquities is one that Latter-day Saints tend to enjoy reading because it sort of works its way through in its book 18 antiquities 18. So if yeah you want to go find that there and then you can look at instead of having me read just a whole bunch of words at you while you're waiting

for that. But fascinating stuff. I was just going to mention you said John the Baptist is a big deal. Whoever wrote the Bible dictionary felt the exact same way. Listen to this, it says, John was the embodiment of the law of Moses. So he is the law of Moses in human form because both were designed to prepare the way for the Messiah and make ready of people to receive him. And then this statement, he was the outstanding bearer of the Aaronic priesthood in all history. I was like, wow, that's quite a statement. I think that was probably Robert Matthews who wrote that.

But the most outstanding bearer of the Aaronic priesthood in all history. I was just gonna say, because Robert J. Matthews, I think wrote a book on John the Baptist, and I think he was the major writer of the Bible dictionary. David Sharia. David Sharia. When you said, I don't know who wrote this, I thought, I think I do.

And because he loved John the Baptist, and so did Jesus. I mean, not a greater prophet than John the Baptist. David Sharia. Yeah. And by the way, we do get in Luke, let's see, it's Luke chapter 1 verse 36. We won't go there, but we get this statement to that he and John were related because Elizabeth and Mary were related. And so it says in the KJV, Kim's woman is probably the best we have from there, but we do get that there is a familial relationship

between John and Jesus. So they are close. John was in the wilderness during much of the time when Jesus was in Galilee, how well they knew each other. It's hard to know that they are family. So that's sort of nice. Jesus does say of them that are born of women, there is none greater than John the Baptist. I think that's everyone, them that are born of women. I think it's a pretty high school.

That doesn't narrow it down much, does it? Yeah. Of them that are born of women. Where did it's a pretty high school. That doesn't narrow it down much. Of them that are born of women. Where did John the Baptist is such a fascinating story? Where was he given the priesthood? And what age was that? And I think you mentioned that he was one of those that was almost impossible not to listen to

because he was so filled with the spirit. So what do we know about how John the Baptist received his priesthood? Okay, so we have from modern-day revelation, doctrine and covenants helps us with this information. And I'm going to read from doctrine and covenants 84 versus 27 through 28, is where you can find some information, some more information about John. For God raised up, John the Baptist, being filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb. The same way that the scriptures are talking about Jesus as having this wisdom, this strength, for he was baptized while he was yet in his childhood and was ordained by the angel of God at the time he was eight days old unto this power. Now of course eight days that's going to be the time of

circumcision and something else is happening that's really important at eight days. That's when Zacharias's mouth is open and he proclaims his name shall be John. And we've already gotten the angel interacting with his father, Zacharias, saying, you need to proclaim his name. And then in fact, if we could just go backwards and we won't go back and read it, but the whole New Testament account opens in Luke, we're spending time in Matthew. But if you go to the way it all opens up, it opens up. And I love to see this with a faithful woman, Elizabeth. Good point. And then Mary, I've loved seeing that strong faithful woman.

I mean, if you think of Eve, the way she blesses the entire storyline of the human race, how she stands there at the beginning of the storyline, as does Adam. And then if you think of Elizabeth and Mary, I think this may be helpful, there is no salvation without Mary, the mother of the Son of God. Now Christ is the Son of God who works out the atonement through his grace and power and goodness, but the one who gives life to the life giver and teaches and raises, let's talk about Elizabeth and then Zacharias. It's sort of a latter day saint kind of story where it's his turn by lot to be the one who's going to present the prayer, the morning sacrifice,

at the veil. He's not a high priest, he's not the high priest, he's a priest. And so he can't go into the Holy of Holies, but where they would go is to the altar of incense that's just before the veil. There's smoke ascending from that altar of incense that symbolizes prayer before the veil. You have angel stitched on the veil, sort of representing the cherubim leading the way back into the presence of God. And as he prays, and the priests are around the temple also praying at the same time, sort of circling the temple there, an angel comes down and stands there at the veil, bringing a message from God, how to enter into the presence of God. God's going to descend

among you. And in Matthew 3, you've already read it, the Kingdom of God is at hand. I mean, God is on earth. I mean, you're in his presence, so to speak. He's here. And this is what the angel Gabriel brings, that message before the veil hears how you are going to enter into the presence of God. And Zacharias doesn't have the faith to fully accept it there. So he becomes, he can't speak. And he becomes the symbol of apostasy that you can't get divine messages unless you're willing to hear them and share them. And the moment he is able to share it at John the Baptist's eight day circumcision ceremony at what's called the bris of these days. The moment he's able to share that,

and he has the faith share it, his mouth is open, and it becomes, I would say, the first revelation of the dispensation of the meridian of times. Brought from an angel in the temple at the veil to a listener and then carried forth and that opens first with Elizabeth's faith, but then as it carries forward that opens this new dispensation. And there's something else clearly that's gone on. He's ordained by an angel of God at the time. He was eight days old unto this power. So we went

further than what you were pointing to there, John, but I'm so glad you talked about it. And I think what you added about Josephus and the popularity of John, I mean, if you can imagine someone who's filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb, that's going to be a powerful teacher and no wonder the crowds were following him and Josephus commented on it. But it's not the normal way that somebody gets ordained at eight days old, but John the Baptist was anything but ordinary. I just thought it's interesting if we were to see John the Baptist's line of authority.

It's a little different than what we might expect. And whether this is his ordination to what we would think of. Was it a priesthood ordination or was it a... Right. He's ordained unto this power either way. Or his mission. But this is a very powerful moment when he at a very young age is prepared for this future mission that he's going to fulfill. And I like what you read from the Bible dictionary about him being sort of this quintessential example of what it means to be a priest at holder. He represents this, the power of what God

has been trying to do amongst his children. And then preparing the way, how then they, he then prepares the way. All right, shall we go back then to Matthew three? You know, we've been talking for a while, we're through two verses, this is about right. Got some Isaiah coming up here. We do, it's coming.

First, let me say briefly, verse one, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, there are a couple of different traditional baptismal sites. One of them, it's just probably traditional because it's really beautiful and it's up north near the Galilee, right at the entrance to the Galilee where the River Jordan is there. The other one though is probably more likely and it's down near Jerusalem and it's very

desert-y, very wilderness-y. And if you think of Isaiah who are about to read proclaiming, you are going to return. I'm going to bring you through the wilderness back. You're going to redeem the land. There's echoes of redemption right there that we just read right over. Oh, he's in the wilderness as a technical thing. Yes, and we're talking about I'm going to bring you up through the dry wilderness to holy places. I'm going to return you into a holy relationship. So This is John the Baptist. He's sort of like the one who's preparing the way for the return. And that's what Isaiah is about to say.

Before though, I keep saying that, before we hit verse three, that's been a moment on this word repent, which then the connotation to this word in Greek, which is, let's see, I think it's metaneo, is that correct? Yeah, matanoeo, and if I mispronounce in that, forgive me, John and Hank don't get upset with me. We'll turn it on to. Change one's mind. To change one's mind, you were thinking of things in one way, now think of them in another way. Change your viewpoint. Change the way you see things. And if you think of missionary work, or if you think of

the spirit working with you and how you can be viewing things one way, and then your heart will change, your heart will soften. Let's not forget, as we interact with others, the way that God interacts with us. I know there have been times, I'm just seeing things a certain way. That does not predict that I'm going to see them the same way after the Spirit of God touches my heart. And for those that we love, who you think, they're never gonna see things a different way,

they're too sort of embroiled in this world view. And then when God touches the heart. So I just think there's plenty of reason to hope on, to exercise faith, both for ourselves, in our own weaknesses, and for those that we love, to change one's mind. God's pretty powerful to help us see the world of fresh, to see it differently. God's pretty powerful to help us see the world of fresh, to see it differently. And I love it. It's the first word we hear from John. Right. Right. The very first word, repent. Yeah. And I have used this in classes to just put the word repent on a big slide and say, all right, what's the first thing you think of? Because I love the Bible dictionary. It's

such a nice definition, a fresh view about God, about oneself and about the world. And because I think sometimes we get the the scolding type, feeling with the word repent and a fresh view about God, about oneself and about the world. That's beautiful definition. And President Nelson, there's a talk called Repentance and Conversion from General Conference in April of 2007. And he said, when Jesus said repent, his disciples recorded that command in the Greek language with the verb meta. Now, how did you say it?

Metanoel. Yeah, good. You probably did that better than I did. President Nelson said, this powerful word has great significance in this word. The prefix meta means change, like metamorphosis or something the suffix relates to four important Greek terms a new NOUS meaning the mind no sus meaning knowledge Numa meaning spirit and No meaning breath thus when Jesus said repent he asked us to change our mind, our knowledge, and our spirit.

Wow. That's pretty good, John. I love that. Yeah. Repentance feels good, and I've often said, my experience, and maybe there is a time where you could despair is darker, sometimes in life where you don't feel that ray of hope. But my experience has been I know that it's true repentance or and I'm just speaking for myself here because it feels sweet to me. And maybe there's something that comes before that that I could pinpoint a little more, but but certainly when it's just I'm awful and nobody can love me. And I make so many mistakes that I'm just a loser.

To me, that doesn't have quite the right flavor. It feels right when there's this, oh, I've done wrong and I see it and it's in one sense devastating, but in another sense, it's hope filled because it's full of faith in God that God loves me and He's helping me see it because He wants me to be happier because He wants me to change my mind and see things more accurately. And that's only about joy. It can require sacrifice for sure

that it is so joyful to see the world afresh. Well, I love what you just shared, John. That was really powerful. So what else, President Nelson? And Elder Holland said, what was it Hank Repentance, perhaps the most hopeful and encouraging word in the whole Christian vocabulary?

Just that we have a chance to, that that option's there, and that it's there repeatedly. There's lots of exits on the covenant path, but there's lots of onramps too. Yeah, I think I've shared this before when I was with you, and I don't know who I got it from, or the spirit brought it to my own mind or not but this idea that repentance takes care of my past, covenants take care of my future and it's all hope filled because of the Atonement of Christ I am not defined by yesterday. It's not that yesterday doesn't exist but the Atonement can transform yesterday and today another way to say that is the pool

of Bethesda, the man who's waiting for 38 years. Well, the past evidence of 38 years of evidence is not an accurate indicator of what will happen to him on this day when God is involved, everything changes. And so 38 years, nope, this is not going to work out. And then Christ shows up. The evidence of yesterday is not an accurate indicator of what God is able to do in your life and my life today. I mean, I don't know that all that is embedded in the word repent, but it sort of is. You don't tell somebody to repent if there actually isn't an ability to have it washed clean. And then he's got this ordinance of washing washed clean and move forward and be a new soul again. And how grateful I am for daily repentance as President Nelson

talked about for the opportunity to take the sacrament weekly for ordinances that help me reconnect and be reborn. So to speak, again and again and again. I think I was somewhere in my teenage years when it occurred to me that repentance was more about seeing your value, your infinite worth, and learning to make choices that match that infinite worth. It was very uplifting, very enobling. I wasn't making perhaps, I didn't make a choice that that matched my value. And the difference between those two, my value and the value of that choice, perhaps, was so stark that

you want to come up and you want to reach your value. I love that. I totally agree and forgive me for interrupting a little bit there. You got me excited. We're about to go to Isaiah 40. That's what he's going to be quoting from. But there's another space in Isaiah that I'll mention to those who are listening. You should go back and look sometime at Isaiah 55. We're familiar with my thoughts are higher than your thoughts and my ways and your ways. I'm probably miscoiting that a little bit. we often think well God knows better than we do we need to submit to the Lord Well, and that is true that feels a little bit weighty Maybe and that's fine because we do need to submit to the Lord

But if you keep reading those verses and get keep going to verse 12 Here's what he's saying. Let me just read it for you really quickly, so I'm not misquoting it too badly here. So if you look at Isaiah 55, and then I'm gonna take you to another place in Isaiah here in just a moment, I do like Isaiah. So verse eight, for my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways, my ways, the Lord. And then look at the conclusion of this.

For ye shall go out with joy and be led forth with peace. He goes through this whole thought process about the reins come down and they do their work. And my thoughts are higher than your thoughts. And this is what you're talking about, Hank, it's not, hey, you're bad, so think better about things. Although sometimes we just need to think better about things. It's joyous, you don't get it, God is saying.

You think you're not going to make it I am telling you I know better than you do I have power and I'm going to bring you out with joy and Yeesh, I'll go be led forth with peace. That's how my thoughts are higher than your thoughts. I see you correctly and you Over and over and over again do not. So repent, see yourself through my eyes, see yourself afresh, see yourself anew, let your heart take hope again, that your God loves you. So I love that space and Isaiah.

And you got me a little, so excited that I interrupted you, Hank, thank you. Well, that's great, because I think sometimes we look at that verse just by itself, just because we're having a trial Well, I guess God's ways are higher than my ways or something like that, but and fair enough, right? But yeah, yeah sure and it works, but you should be go out with joy and be led forth with peace ah

So those of you of us who are Feeling a little bit weighed down today. That's that mortality tends to do that and we're just let your heart See it again. Let your heart spring forth and hope again that you will go out with joy. All right now While we're here in Isaiah, let's go ahead and we'll read it here in Isaiah and I'll go ahead and read and then when we go back to Matthew Three maybe Hank we can pass the baton to you So Isaiah 40 verse 3 and by the way this starts a new section of Isaiah This is how handle chose to start the Messiah We're more familiar with when he quotes Isaiah 9.6 wonderful counselor. I was hoping I could get John diversity this on there John Mission achieved

I could get John diversity this time. John, mission achieved. And this fits so well with what we're saying. Because I think sometimes I think of John as this feisty prophet. He's all about repentance and hellfire and damnation. But look, the section that we're talking about, repentance, comfort ye my people, versus to speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem. Your warfare is accomplished, your

iniquity is pardoned, she has received the Lord's hand double for all her sins, and then here's the voice, the voice of him that cryeth in the wilderness. There's what John says, prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. So let's go back to Matthew 3, and then Hank would you be willing to do verses 3, and let's go ahead do 3 and 4. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying the voice of the Lord make his past straight. And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair and a leather girdle about his loins and his meat was locusts and wild honey. Good. Alright, so we'll pause there.

Locusts is the only insect that is kosher under the lob moses. And people in cumeron, they ate locusts, they talk about locusts, you can bake them, you can fry them, you can boil them. It's a very wildernessy kind of a thing. And then, of course, he's dressed in a way, and the way he's described here is, gives echoes of Elijah. And the interesting thing about Elijah, remember, that's the one that Malachi prophesies, hey Elijah's going to come. And so that's why they're asking, are you Elijah?

Are you the prepare of the way? And there is in the Greek, of course, Elijah is going to sound like Elias that comes out in the anglicized Greek. And so you have Elias is Elijah. That's always what it is. It's the Greek form of Elijah. But then this idea of an Elias being or an Elijah, but we Joseph Smith used the term as this Greek form and a Elias being a Prepare of the way. Well Elijah is a prepare of the way and John the Baptist is gonna say, well, yes, I am Elias I am a prepare of the way. I am the one who's coming and then of course in latter days a pair of the way, I am the one who's coming. And then, of course, in latter days,

Joseph Smith is an Elias for Jesus Christ. You could say, in another sense, Oliver Cowder, Sydney Rigdon, is almost like John the Baptist with Joseph, but Joseph, in the more, I think, powerful sense, is the Elias for Jesus Christ. And each of us, I would say, are called to be preparers of the way.

And those who make the past straight, now, if a king is coming and has his retinue and he's coming to visit, what would happen is people would go beforehand and they would make sure that the path was prepared and they would fill in little divots or valleys and they would take things down so that the animals and the crowd, the group that's with the king himself, can go forward without injury. So they'd straighten out the pathway and they would prepare and level the way for the kings, almost like laying out the red carpet.

So I'm a preparer of the way. I'm making sure, if we're going to now apply this a little bit, when Christ comes, the way is prepared. He's got a people prepared to receive him that the message has gone forth and Christianity has been that in powerful ways. And the restoration of the gospel, which could not, I don't, I mean, God can do anything you want, but could not have occurred don't, I mean, God can do anything He wants, but could not have occurred without all that's come before it.

But then God is able to restore the gospel in the last days and then our goal, as we sin fourth missionaries, I've got a son, our youngest son, just went into the MTC last Wednesday, he was headed to New Zealand. Yeah, it's feeling a little weird around my house this week. I was always the guy who stayed up late with the kids and now we get to 11 p.m. and I'm like, wait, who am I? What's my job?

My job is not to be crisis a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. So, John is the one who will prepare the way so that there's a people. And some of his apostles are going to come straight from those who have heard and been persuaded by John the Baptist message. I love this idea of a forerunner. When my wife and I were first married, we bought a Toyota forerunner when the kids started to come and I thought, let's get a license plate that says Elias. And when we drive by, people will say, oh, I get it Elias was a forerunner. Always teaching, John. Always teaching, yeah. Please join us for part two of this podcast.

you