Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Moses 1; Abraham 3 -- Part 1 : Dr. Kerry Muhlestein

Episode Date: December 27, 2021

Are you one of the few that already love the Old Testament or one of the few that hope to love the Old Testament? Join Dr. Kerry Muhlestein as we discuss techniques for studying Moses 1, Abraham 3, and the Old Testament. We learn how to view the Creation through new eyes, and you will see the story as never before.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/episodesFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive ProducersDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: MarketingLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Rough Video EditorAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsKrystal Roberts: French TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith and I'm John by the way. We love to learn, we love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow Him. Welcome my friends to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith.

I'm your host I'm here with my graceful co-host John by the way. Welcome John Not only is it a new episode. It is a new season a follow him It is and I'm I'm here with Hank I'm gonna give Hank a middle name This year Hank kilowatt Smith because of his boundless energy. Boundless energy. Boundless energy. Sometimes in Springville when they have power problems, they just hook jumper cables to

Hank's ears and he lights up most of the city. I'm party 21! Jiggle Hots! John, New Year, New Season, New Book of Scripture. This is exciting, so we had to bring in the best of the best. Who's with us today? Like you said, New Year, I think that a lot of us would love a better understanding, appreciation, would love to grow a greater love for the Old Testament.

So I'm so glad we're doing this and we're starting with Dr. Kerry Mulestein. We're so excited to have him. I have such an extensive bio that on Dr. Mulestein. So I'm gonna skip around, but I hope I don't miss anything that you can put in. But as I was reading it, you know what I kept thinking Hank? I kept hearing da da da da da da da da da da da da da. Whenever I saw the word Egypt. So let's see. Kerry received his bachelor's from BYU in psychology with a Hebrew minor. Da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da you and a PhD from UCLA and Egyptology. That's where I hear the music. He also taught early morning seminary at the Westwood Institute of Religion, which is there by UCLA. He was selected by the Princeton Review in 2012 as one of the best 300 professors in the nation. He and his wife, Juliana, the parents of six children. He's also served on a committee for the Society,

for the study of Egyptian antiquities, and currently serves on their board of trustees. He's a senior fellow of the William F. Albright Institute for Archaeological Research. He's the director of the BYU Egypt excavation project in association with his works on understanding the pyramid excavated there, as well as the Greco Roman culture

Representative of the site and the advent of Christianity in Egypt I've always just loved ancient Egypt and there their art especially and so we're really excited to have you to bring in kind of some Egyptian Backdrop to all these things that we're we're looking at today. So welcome. Thanks for joining us backdrop to all these things that we're looking at today. So welcome. Thanks for joining us. Ah, thank you. I almost fell asleep where you're reading that boring stuff, but now I'm awake again. So it's good to be with you guys. Kerry, I hear some people say that the Old Testament is their favorite book. I hear others say, I just don't know how to, I don't get it. I don't know where to start. I don't understand how the Pearl or Great price fits in

Where does Moses Abraham fit in with Genesis? I don't get all this. Can you kind of give us a An Old Testament for dummies kind of introduction and say how do we how do we start this whole year new year of studying the Old Testament? Yeah, I would I would love to I am so excited about having an Old Testament year. I've been looking forward to this since we started to come follow me. I do feel like with come follow me people have really gotten into whatever book of scripture we're studying. And so I've been waiting for this year where we can really help people because I think you're right there like one and a half percent of us that say we love the Old Testament and 98.5% who say, I'd like to love the Old Testament, but it's just hard. So, but I think there are some things that really can help you understand it better. There are a couple of keys that, in fact, one day, I want to write a book, 10 keys to understand the Old Testament,

but we won't do all 10 here, that'd take too long. But let me give you just a couple of ideas. I mean, first of all, I think we have to be willing to admit that it's a different culture. And sometimes we struggle just because we want them to be like us and act like us now in a lot of ways they are like us. Their desires are the same, the things that they love, the things that they're afraid of. Those are the same kind of things. They're humans just like us, right? But they dress differently.

They have different ways of talking. And then we have the King James version, which has a different way of talking. But probably one of the bigger things is that the Old Testament is more willing to record words and all than probably any of our other books of scripture, right? They're just, then probably any of our other books of Scripture. It's a culture that's just going to lay it all out there.

They're not going to hide stuff. And I actually love that. But for some people, they struggle partially because they kind of have come to expect that whatever they're reading about characters in the Old Testament, it must be good and inspired. And the Old Testament is not giving you only the good stuff, they're giving you everything. So I met someone once who said,

well, I was reading the Old Testament, but I had to stop when we got to the Book of Judges because I was reading some stories about some terrible stuff. And I thought, well, I just can't believe that's how we're supposed to act. And in fact, I think it was recorded as an example of a really bad way to act, right? To tell you, this is when we hit our low part.

This is when we were at our worst, and they're sharing it with us. Or for example, here as we start, we're gonna get really quickly into the lives of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and Joseph and their families. And what they have messy family situations. They go through tough stuff, it's really messy. And I appreciate that because most of us,

however wonderful our families are, there's some messiness in it, right? There are brothers who want to sell other brothers in most families. There are some things that are kind of tricky to work through and they're not hiding it. They're saying, you know what, Jacob is one of the most righteous people

that ever lived and he had some tough stuff in his family and sometimes he couldn't figure out exactly how to do it right and Isaac couldn't either and so on. So I think we just have to say instead of expecting to see a perfect pristine situation, let's say, oh, these guys had difficult lives and we do too. And then I think we can actually relate better to them and get more out of it. I heard it said, Kerry, that I think it hardly says the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there. So we need to maybe approach the past, the Old Testament, in the same way we'd approach going to a foreign country. We'd probably watch and learn and

be respectful, and instead of judgmental. I think that's a great approach and I love that, that quote. And so that brings us back into this cultural thing. So maybe I'll just give you two other things that I think are key for understanding deal testament. And one of them is very much cultural. Culturally they are much more symbol oriented than we are. And so, they're going to rely on symbols a lot.

And it will be their primary and most important way of communicating. So when I say that, we think, oh, symbol like a pyramid, right? Of course, I think that because I'm an Egyptologist, but, you know, different kinds of symbols. And it is that, but I would say even more than that, the most important method of communicating for them, the way they communicated the most important things, let's say, is by symbolic action. Everything has to have a symbolic action. So that's why you're gonna read,

you know, that they rent or they tour their clothes, because if you're feeling torn up inside, then there needs to be a symbolic expression of that. You tear your clothes. And we're going to see God communicating with them in this way. I think that when it says that God will communicate to us in our language and according to our understanding that part of that is not just whether it's English or Portuguese, it's that if we expect for him to communicate to us in dreams, if we expect him to communicate

us to us in symbolic actions, that's what he's going to do. So, just as an example, the Exodus, I think that really happened. It's a literal story. It really happened. But it happened in a way that is designed to teach us symbolically, or the sacrifices they're given are designed to teach us symbolically. Or later when we get to stories like Maryam being stricken with leprosy are designed to teach us symbolically.

But the other thing, actually, so I said I was going to give you two more, but I've got to give you three more things. The other thing to tie in with the symbolism. Yeah. Well, it's because it's, they're tied together. This symbolic action that God speaks with, we need to look for the whole story. Too often we look for the first part and we miss the second part. So I personally feel like the Old Testament

teaches more about God's mercy and his love than any other book of Scripture hands down easily, more than any other book of Scripture. But I know that's not how most people see it, but it's because they look at just one part. So for example, with that story with Miriam, she and Aaron come and they question Moses about his authority, and that's challenging Moses' position as the prophet. So it's not enough for Moses to say something about that in this culture. In this culture, there has to be a symbolic action that answers it. So the symbolic action is that Maryam is struck with leprosy.

And if we stop there and we say, wow, that's pretty harsh, then that's one thing. But if we keep reading, well, the next thing is Maryam is healed, but then she has to go through the ritual cleansing that's part of the law of Moses, and that's going to take a week before she can be cleansed and be part of, be in with everyone again around the rest of Israel, because of leprosy you're supposed to be away from people. So God has Israel weight. They just wait when Miriam's cleansed and ready to go, now they can move again. And if you think of the symbolism of that, that you and I will all do things that aren't what we should do. And yeah, God may have to punish us for that, he may have to humble us.

That's really what it is, is teaching and humbling. That's what happened there, is teaching and humbling, and that's what God does. But God will cleanse us from that. He'll wait for us as long as this is necessary, and then we can move along again. And it's no big deal. In the end, that was no big deal that Merriam did that. She just had to go through the learning process. God takes care of it. She's cleansed. Let's move on. That happens for all of us spiritually. And if we're willing to look at those symbols in the whole story, right? So another example, this is a much bigger scale, but the same thing. Scattering the destruction of the kingdom of Israel

and the scattering of the 10 tribes. That sounds like pretty harsh stuff, right? But again, it's God trying to humble them and teach them. Let's keep in mind, he's still gathering them. He's not, this is a 2,500 year cycle. If we want to learn about God's patience, that's patience, but it doesn't matter how wicked they were, God's still going to work with them. He's still going to bring them back to them.

That's the great message of the Old Testament. Is it doesn't matter how many times or in how badly you mess up? God is always there. He'll humble you and teach you, but he's always there to accept you back, bring you back in and give you another chance. And if we'll look for those messages in the Old Testament, you know, like messages of the prophets are filled with all sorts of warnings and wrath and stuff. But if you look almost all of them end with this beautiful message of hope after all that stuff, I'm bringing you back. Right. So we need to look for that. Wow. This, this is great. Can I try to restate those three then? First was notice that the Old Testament is more willing to record warts and all. It's it's very honest and it can give us some hope knowing, Hey, my family's not perfect either. The second thing I love this a more symbol oriented culture. And I've always known that there were symbols, but I love that you said symbolic

action hadn't thought of that before. There are actions that are symbolic, not just words that describe things symbolically. Yeah, that explains part of why it's often we, it seems like God is acting harshly, but this is something he has to do because that's the way they're expecting to learn. And yeah, he's going to teach them exactly right. Wow. Okay. And then third was make sure you see the whole story and you will see more about God's love and mercy. Because you're right. I've heard people say, well, the Old Testament God is really harsh and mean and he softens

up in the New Testament, but you're saying not so if you look for the whole story. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, that statement drives me more crazy than just about anything else because what it means is that they read some parts of the Old Testament, they didn't read some parts of the New Testament, or they selectively chose what they were gonna focus on.

So they didn't read some parts of the New. And they also didn't see the next part of the story because the New Testament doesn't record it, but the Jews go through the biggest destruction in their history at the end of the New Testament, which Christ said they were going to. Yeah. So, but it's all the same thing. Then he brings them back, right? We just have to see that same story everywhere. I'll throw on one more, and we don't need to spend a lot of time on this,

because you'll end up spending a lot of time on this. But it's to recognize the importance of, initially, what we'll call the New and Everlasting covenant, but eventually the Abrahamic covenant, right? The Abrahamic covenant is the core central element, the thematic element of the entire Old Testament. And there are a lot of things that will make more sense when you recognize that God is keeping the covenant or humbling them so that they will start to keep again, and that you'll recognize a lot of imagery used,

especially by the prophets, has to do, you just have to know the covenant well enough to recognize, oh, they're making a covenant reference because he's talking about them becoming more numerous or about protecting them. Oh, so Isaiah often isn't being literal. He's using a symbol that says, now we're keeping the covenant or now we're not keeping the covenant. When I try to teach Isaiah, I feel like how can you even understand the book of Mormon without

understanding the Abrahamic covenant and how critical that is. And you have an Isaiah commentary coming out pretty soon, is that right? And which I can't wait to get. It's just barely coming out now. It's a verse by verse commentary. So it's got a guy, a section that kind of gives you some of these principles, but then verse by verse commentary. And I was shocked, actually, really, even though I was expecting to see it, I'd already written about the Abrahamic covenant, but I was shocked at how often I was writing, well, this is Isaiah talking about the Abrahamic covenant.

This is Isaiah. And I suddenly realized you're never going to get Isaiah, or most of what the prophets are writing, if you don't know the Abraham covenant fairly well. So that's another great key for understanding all the prophets, especially Isaiah, but any of the prophets if you, if you will just become at least passingly familiar with the Abraham covenant. Which should happen with Come Follow Me this year? You know, I've heard Dr. Robert El Millet talk about, I think his words were there's a lack of covenant consciousness. We don't get the Abrahamic covenant. And so I loved here you talking about that.

And because that helps make sense of so many things in the book of Mormon as well. What's the title of your book going to be? It's learning to love Isaiah a guide and commentary. Yeah, and I think if anyone has been trying to overcome our lack of covenant consciousness, it's President Nelson, right? If there's someone who gets and talks about the covenant,

it's him and you almost feel like you get this sense that that's one of his underlying missions as a prophet is to help us understand how the covenant affects all of the other stuff we're doing. He's talked about the greatest work when he was set apart in June of 2018. The greatest work we can be involved in is gathering in Israel. It's all part of the covenant. So yeah, good point. He's passionate about it. And so is the Lord. And you'll see it, if you'll recognize it, you'll see it in the scriptures. I've always thought, Carrie, that those of us who teach the gathering of Israel, we probably ought to make sure we teach the scattering, and the Old Testament is going to help us understand the scattering of Israel, because if we don't understand it, then what are we gathering again?

Why are we doing this? Why? And how, what was the purpose? You're right. So that's actually another little key that's worth bringing up briefly. I think as we, you remember way back last year when we were doing the doctrine of covenants,

we've really stressed, you know, understanding some of the historical context. We've got these big chapter headings or section headings, I guess, that tell us the historical context and the church provided all sorts of resources for that. And it really did help us understand the revelations better, right? Well, that's fairly recent history. We need that all the more to understand what's going on in the Old Testament. And it has some historical books in it,

but it's not history the way we think of history, by the way, they're teaching theology, history is like fourth, fifths, tenth priority for them. They're trying to teach us religious principles that the authors of the Old Testament, but still, if we will learn a little bit of the history, it really, really helps us understand things. So learning that history of the scattering

of Israel, it will help you understand the Old Testament, the Book of Mormon, the New Testament, helps you understand everything, right? So hopefully, during this year, we also will take the time to learn just a little bit of some of the historical things going on here. And it's how you get that second part of the story that we were talking about seeing God's love. You get that in the history of it. Right. And I've also noticed, Carrie, in teaching in my New Testament classes, the better you understand the Old Testament, the better you're going to understand the New Testament. It's like watching the sequel without watching the original. That's exactly right. Yeah, that's exactly right. I can't tell you how many times in my Book of Mormon courses or my New Testament courses

where someone asked the question, I say, okay, you're probably sick of me saying this by now, but if you take a class on the Old Testament, then you'll get this, right? So I'll prove my best to get you there right now, but you'll understand it much better when you understand the Old Testament. And it's true for the doctrine of covenants as well, actually. You understand all other scriptural authors presuppose that you know and understand the Old Testament. Kerry, it's interesting.

We're talking about the Old Testament, but today we're actually not even going to, in the lesson manual, we don't even open the Bible. We open two other books in the Pearl of Great Price, the book of Moses and the book of Abraham. Now, I know these are both Old Testament because I know Moses and Abraham lived in the Old Testament, but tell us, can you tell us where we got these and how they ended up in the Purologic price? Yeah, yeah, I'm happy to talk about those. So let's do the Book of Moses first.

So in a way, we are in Genesis and in a way we're not in the Book of Moses, because the Book of Moses is the Joseph Smith translation of the first several chapters of the Old Testament. So what happens is just after Joseph Smith finishes publishing the book Mormon in March of 1830, in June of 1830, he has this kind of vision or revelation, we're not sure exactly what it is, but he has this vision or revelation that he titles the vision of Moses when he's caught up on an exceedingly high amount. And that's Moses chapter one. And then he starts to work his way systematically through the Old Testament to begin with. Eventually he'll stop and go to the New Testament and then

come back to the Old Testament. But, and we don't know if he's commanded to go through the Bible, and then he has Moses chapter 1, or that vision, or if he has that vision or revelation, and then he's commanded to go through. So the rest of it comes as he's systematically going through the Bible. Maybe Moses 1 is part of that, or the catalyst to it. We don't know. But, he has this revelation come to him, and then it keeps coming to it. We don't know. But he has this revelation come to him and then it keeps coming to him. So Moses chapter one is received in June two through three and actually I think we

talked about this a little bit in our our doctrine of governance come follow me podcast because it overlapped with the sections 27 and 28 29. But it's probably somewhere in September, he gets two through three, or most three, and then kind of right after that four and part of five, and it just keeps following that year. But it has so much new material. It's not just little changes that you could foot into a footnote or an appendix.

So much new material, as Joseph Smith is doing this first part It's not just little changes that you could foot into a footnote or an appendix. So much new material, as Joseph Smith is doing this first part of Genesis, that he publishes it separately in the newspapers and eventually that becomes part of the Pearl of Great Price as the Book of Moses. And so we really should just think of it that way because it's completely accurate to say the Book of Moses is the Joseph Smith translation of the first part of Genesis. Okay.

And the reason it's kind of standalone, that it's interesting, I carry with the Joseph Smith translation, we put some in the footnotes, we put some in the appendix, and we put some in the prologue price. So it's kind of all over the place in your standard works, is you're holding on to them, you got to go looking a little bit

for that Joseph Smith translation. There's kind of a long complicated textual history behind that, but yeah, the reason that we have it in the Pearl of Grey Price is because Joseph published those parts in the Church's newspapers. Okay, so tell us about the Book of Abraham now. All right, so the Book of Abraham, we get in a different way. Although the revelatory process may have been similar, we don't know a lot about that. Like we said, 1830 is when we get the Joseph Smith translation

started and they've worked on it pretty intensely for a couple of years. And as they've in many ways wrapped up that project, few years later in 1835, there's a fellow who comes to Kirtland with some mummies and papyrai that he's selling. A fascinating story behind how it gets there and so on and so on. But anyway, he's selling these,

and Joseph feels really impressed to get the papyrai that they have something on there that he needs. The Michael Chandler, the fellow who has them, won't sell them, the mummies and papyrus separately. So Joseph has to raise the money to buy all of them. And this is one they're like dead poor, trying to build the temple, right?

They're just about finishing the temple, they'll dedicate it less than a year later. So it's hard to get that money, but it's so important that they do. And as Joseph translates to papyri, and there's a long complicated history behind what is the revelatory process here, is the text actually on the papyri or not, and so on. It's kind of a long, big story. We won't probably want to get into all the details now.

But as Joseph is translating that papyri, or at least looking at the papi-ray and receiving a revelation for a text that Abraham wrote, maybe that's another possible scenario. That might be a little bit like what happened with the book of Moses. But one way or the other is he's working with the papi-ray through inspiration and revelation from God. He receives the text of a book that Abraham had written when Abraham was alive. And that's the book of Abraham. So Joseph spends time translating that

eventually seven years later when he's in Navu, he'll publish that in the church's newspaper called The Times and Seasons. So similar to the book of Moses, it gets published in the church's newspaper. That's how he's getting it out to the saints. Fantastic. That word translate is such a fascinating word, you know, as I've studied for my book of Mormon

classes, the translation of the book of Mormon. John, you remember this from last year, that word translation can mean yes going from one language to another, but we talk about translated beings, right, and being translated, becoming more holy, becoming what God wants you to And being translated, becoming more holy, becoming what God wants you to be, right? Becoming more like God. To me, that word translate can have so much more meaning than, oh, we're just taking it from one language to another.

Yeah, if you look at the dictionaries from Joseph Smith's day, you'll see that it has a broader meaning than we typically assign to it. Dr. Mulestein, don't you have a book coming out about the book of Abraham? It's just coming out right now or next week. It's part of Desira Books. Yeah, it has been a busy little while. That's why I didn't get the 10 keys to understanding the Old Testament written or something like that.

But it's part of Desira Books. Let's talk about series and this, let's talk about series, and this is, let's talk about the Book of Abraham, where you can get a little bit more about, you know, the history behind how the papyrite got to America and how Joseph Smith gets them in the translation process and the different theories about translation and the fragments we have today and the drawings and all that kind of stuff. So it's not super in depth because it's a short book, but it's certainly more in depth than what we just did. And I think covers the issues in a, I hope in a good understandable

way. Oh, that's great. There's, you know, a lot of people who, it can be a stumbling block. Now, wait, how do we get Abraham and what do we still have? And what does the, what are those facsimiles actually say? So I'm looking forward to seeing that Yeah, and that's that's probably worth at least commenting on that for many people it is a stumbling block because there are a lot of people who are taking inaccurate stories or really simplistic stories about this process and throwing it out there and saying look this can't work in every case They're either withholding information or simplifying it in a ridiculous way. And that, when people get the miss

or simplified information, sometimes they struggle. When you get the full story, my experience is that when people get everything, then it really strengthens their testimony. And you really come to understand and appreciate Joseph Smith all the more. And so I think it's really worth getting the real story instead of silly stuff. One of the things that I have just loved about this whole experience doing this podcast is to talk to people that really know well-trained scholarly and faithful LDS scholars that can tell you now listen.

Here's the whole thing and it's really blessed my testimony. I think a lot of people, so I'm glad to hear a real Egyptologist come on here and say, listen, you're not getting the whole story. Let me give you the whole thing. So I'm looking forward to that. And that's the beauty of a covenant community, isn't it?

Between no one knows all this stuff, but between all of us, we can know a lot of stuff. Carrie, I would also add that I think for the people I've talked to with the book of Abraham has become a stumbling block. They come in with some bad assumptions about the translation process. And if you allow the history and the text to correct your assumptions, you can actually have a wonderful experience of faith-fueling experience. I agree. That's a lot of that misinformation is based on incorrect and faulty assumptions that are stated as if they're fact.

I kind of had approached it maybe backwards, but reading the text itself and just going, wow! And then it's more like, where did this come from? Because the text itself is so incredible. That it's not something somebody invented. It's way too incredible. So that helps me just to look at the text itself and go,

whoa, this is amazing stuff. And that's what we'll do a little bit of in just a minute, but I couldn't agree more. One of the things that I'm just going to be increasingly insistent on is that we don't let the discussions about the issues surrounding the Book of Abraham eclipse the Book of Abraham itself, that we need to get into the Book of Abraham. So for that book, even though it's mostly about these issues, I just insisted I said, we're going to have the last chapter

be about what does the Book of Abraham teach us? I think it's the same thing with the Book of Mormon. If you'll get into the scriptures themselves, they speak for themselves, right? They'll, the power, the spiritual power, the Holy Ghost of Bear witness, just the complexity of it, and the beauty of it. That's because beyond Joseph Smith,

it will testify and you'll know when you'll focus on the text rather than on all this other stuff. So I don't care where it came from, this is a revelation. I don't know how it happened, how translation or pure revelation or papyrus whatever,

but it's clear this is truth and revelation and powerful stuff. Amen and amen. I remember Elder Maxwell saying, don't chew on an old bone in the front yard when there's a feast inside. And that really, there's a feast inside the book of Abraham. Yeah. Hey, can I give you a phrase of Elder Maxwell that I memorized? Well, God is not interested in our retroactive agilation, but in the prevention of our perspective re-enation. Wow. That is classic Maxwell. Yeah, there's like, wait, what?

No one like Maxwell. So this is great. Let's, we mentioned before, we're going to talk talk about how does this end up in the Pearl of Great Price and why was it called that? And first it was published, you said, in some newspapers. So how does all end up in the Pearl of Great Price the way we haven't now? So what happens is you have a whole bunch of different things that the way that the revelations are originally most of the things Joseph Smith is teaching are originally distributed to the saints besides the Book of Mormon that's a book is that the church almost always has a newspaper and

sometimes they have two one in Kirtland one in Missouri and so on and so they publish these things and people collected them so there was a fellow named Franklin Richards who collected the newspaper publications that were the Book of Moses he collected the newspaper publications that were the Bucamosis. He collected the newspaper publications that are about Abraham. He collected what we call the when Joseph Smith translated or published the Wentworth letter and it had the articles of faith in it and Joseph published the story of his own first vision and so on. Well Franklin Richards in a puzzle, and then he is sent to preside over the mission in England. And in England, they have their own newspaper. It's called the Millennial Star.

And so he's presiding in there, and he's got all these things. He has a real problem, actually, in England, because they're supposed to get everyone to migrate to what will eventually become Utah. So he keeps getting these converts and just as they're getting seasoned in the gospel, they leave. So he is trying to run a church with always new converts.

And that's tricky. So to help them know the doctrines that are new and part of the restoration, he decides to put together a little booklet. So he uses the press, the millennial star press, and he puts together a booklet with and initially it has some of the revelations that will eventually be in the doctrine of governance, but aren't yet or that that's not even a couple that are, but they don't have a doctrine of governance in England yet. So he publishes like sections of parts of section 20, which you can see if you've got a church you're trying to run, that's really important

to know baptismal prayer, sacramental prayer, is the different offices of the priesthood. So he's got different things like that in there, but he puts in the stuff from the book of Moses, it's not called the book of Moses yet, he calls it that. But he puts in those revelations, he puts in the translations from Abraham, he puts the articles of faith, that Joseph Smith history, Joseph Smith Matthew, he even puts in a poem he really likes, called Truth, that later we'll be taking out and putting in the hymn book

as, oh, say what is truth. But he puts all that in just as a little booklet. And he feels like this booklet is so important for the saints there that he gives a title from a parable in the New Testament where the Savior talks about if you found a pearl of great prize you'd sell everything you had for it. So he calls it the pearl of great prize. And he prints enough of those that the saints in England can have that to know these key doctrines that they need. Well, of course, they keep moving to Utah. So pretty soon, you end up with a bunch of saints in Utah that have this cool little booklet that the other saints don't have. And so people get interested in that. And eventually the church asks Elder Orson Pratt to go through and edit it and make some sense of it. And he, you know, takes out some of the stuff that's in the doctrine of governance, takes the poem out, kind of organizes it a little bit more, and then in 1880, they canonize it.

In fact, I have to say this. I just love that it's actually George Cucannon, who holds it up and proposes that we accept it as canon. There's just something wonderful about canon, Elder Cannon doing that. But so that's how we get the Pearl of great prizes. It's kind of the, the, the pare-down version of this booklet that was created to help the church run in England. That's so interesting.

They're taking this out, saying, look, new revelations and using it as part of their, their missionary discussions, I guess you could say. It's a little bit missionary discussions, but even more so, it's intended for those who have already joined the church so that they will know the doctrines of the church that are unique to the church. And really, when you think about new stuff besides the Book of Mormon, which they have also, I mean, the Book of Abraham and the book of Moses contains some really core and unique doctrines for us.

That's interesting, Kerry, that people would show up in Utah. New members of the church from England, and they have scripture that the people in Utah are going, hey, where'd you get that? I want that, right? Yeah. And they're not calling it scripture yet. It will happen, but you're right. It really is scripture. It's inspired by it from God So you're right. They're like hey, that's kind of cool So in fact this even comes in to the story You know like the William Martin handcart companies and it's elder Richards who overtakes them If you're familiar with that story and goes and meets Brigham Young

So when he's released from being the mission president He's going faster and he passes all these people who are his converts in England. And he gets to Utah and he tells Brigham Young, there's some people out there in the cold, we need to go get him, but they're part of the groups, there are several groups that do this, but they're part of the groups that are bringing this little pamphlet with them. So, let's summarize. Then, the Pearl of the Great Price today is Bucamosis, Bucav Abraham, the Articles of Faith. Yep.

Joseph Smith history, which we did last year. And Joseph Smith Matthew. Yeah, which is the Joseph Smith translation of Matthew 24. So we'll do that next year. So we use the Pearl of Great Price three of the four, well, we actually use it when we do Bucamor of Mormon as well because it has the story of Maroni coming and giving the place to Joseph and so on. So we actually use the Pearl of Great Price in every, come follow me a year.

It just, it doesn't get a year of its own, but it's pretty integral to everything we do. Yeah, I've heard people say that pro-the-grade price encompasses everything from the pre-mortal existence to the last days in Joseph Smith Matthew. It's got everything in it. It does. As far as the time period, it covers the whole existence of the planet, you know. Yeah, that's actually very, very correct. Hey, Kerry, I think it's time we can jump into our lesson now. Thank you for that incredible background information.

Like this is this is crucial stuff. Yeah, good good clean fun. The the lesson this week is on Moses one Abraham three. So Abraham three is one of my favorite chapters of scripture anywhere. There's just so much powerful stuff in it and and sometimes it's a little bit confusing so much powerful stuff in it. And sometimes it's a little bit confusing to people, but maybe we can jump in and see if we can understand some really key and core doctrines that I think are in Abraham chapter three. This is the Lord again teaching using symbols.

And there are two levels of things going on here. One, he's teaching Abraham and by extension us, but he's also telling Abraham that he's telling him these things so that he can go and teach them in Egypt. So if we were to look at verse 15, and the Lord sent an enemy, Abraham, I showed these things unto thee before you go into Egypt

that you may declare all these words. Right, so this is Abraham's passport into Egypt as it were. And the Lord is giving him a vision of the heavens or of astronomy, we could say. And that's going to help Abraham in a couple of ways. One, the Egyptians, we've talked about how old that some people are really symbol oriented. The Egyptians are even more so.

Right, I mean, these are the kings of symbols in the history of the world. They really are into symbolism. And they're very familiar with keeping track of the stars and what's going on with the stars and with attaching meaning and stories to those things. So if you have someone down who can teach them new things about astronomy, there were priests whose job it was

to know astronomy, to keep track of the stars. This was their priestly office, and they were some of the most important priests ever, right? So to have someone that can come down and teach them astronomy automatically, this is putting Abraham at the upper level of their class and of people, right? These, he's now co-equal with their highest

and most important priests, and he's going to be able to teach them, and they're going to listen to him about astronomy, and then they will naturally expect that there's some symbolism that they should learn from that. So this is, if we're going to use modern uh, modern missionary parlance, this is, is both um, building on common ground and building a relationship of trust, right? This is how is how Abraham is able to get into the court and get them to listen to him and take him seriously. So with that in mind, let's look at what does God actually teach Abraham.

It's a series of two visions. And we see that often in the scriptures, actually, prophets will have a vision and then another vision right after so. Lehigh has that, Moses has that, we'll do that in a second, and Moses won. Abraham seems to have it here. And it starts out, if we look at verse one,

it starts out using the Euroman thumb him. And through there, he sees a vision of the stars, and not just stars, but all sorts of celestial spheres and embodies and so on. And God teaches him something. He shows him that there, with all of these things, that there's an order. And there's always something that is above and below. If you have one thing, there's something that's above it, and there's something

that's below it. Now, the way that he assigns that order is by, in a way, it's the rotation of the planet. It seems to be maybe a mixture of rotation and orbit, but it's how long a day is, basically, right, which is in a way the rotation of the planet. That may have to do with the size of the planet. It may have to do with the speed and the orbit can affect these and all sorts of stuff. So we don't know how much any of those things are important. And in fact, I'll say, I'm not sure that God is even giving him a completely accurate view of astronomy from God's point of view.

My guess is, he's not that God understands this at a level we're not capable of understanding. And so he's just giving him something that works. So I'll just give you an example of that. For what he's talking about is the slower the rotation and the longer the orbit, the higher their nature, right? Well, that actually works really, really well for the Egyptians because the way the Egyptians conceived of the heavens

is whatever encircled everything else is what controlled everything else. Now from their point of view, the sun is encircling the earth, so the sun is greater than the earth and controls the earth, right? So it's the outside kind of celestial body and the way it circles everything else. It encircles it as the phrase they use, that is the highest and that controls things. All right, so God is giving it to Abraham in a way that works really, really well for the Egyptians. But I'll just tell you my experience. When I try and explain it that way to my students and I say, okay, the thing that's outside

is the most important thing, the thing that's outside is the most important thing, the controls things. And I try and draw these things like, you know, with different orbits and things. And if I put it as the outside thing, being the most important. And then I say, you know, so God is at the outside, it just doesn't work for us. We are, it's just so drilled into our minds that the thing that's at the center is what's most important and it's what controls everything else, that it doesn't matter how often I explain, no, it's the outside, we're talking about the outside, it doesn't work for them, it doesn't make sense, it's not intuitive, they can't understand it. So instead,

I've just taken a saying, okay, just so you know, for the Egyptians, it's this encircling thing, it's the outside thing, but when I draw it, I'm going to say, God is at the center, Colob is at the center, and that's how I pictorially, it's the outside thing, but when I draw it, I'm gonna say, God's at the center, Kohlob is at the center, and that's how I pictorially depict it because it just doesn't work for them any other way. And I suspect that God's probably doing something like that for these guys. It's probably not, astronomy probably doesn't work

even exactly this way, is you saying, okay, this is what works for you guys, let's go with this, right? We're not gonna tell you something that's not gonna make any sense to you. So we get this idea that you have different celestial bodies and he tells us that if you have two bodies, one is above and one is below it, until you get to colob. And colob, because its rotation is so slow, a thousand years is a day, right?

So one day for Colab is a thousand years for us. It takes a thousand of our years for it to rotate around once. Because of that, it is the highest order celestial sphere. But it tells us it's not just because of that, it's also because it's nearest to God. Right, those are the two things. So let's read a couple verses just to kind of get that idea. If we were to read verse 6 in Abraham chapter 3, and the Lord sent into me, now Abraham, these two facts exist, behold, by an eye see it. It is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning and the set time.

So that's this, you know, like the Orbidine and the rotations and so on. Ye the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light, which is set to rule the day, that'll be the sun, and the set time of the lesser light, which is set to rule the night. And then it goes on to talk about these things, and some of those work for us the way we understand astronomy and some don't, and I don't think that's really important because again, he's using it in a way that makes sense to them. We get back to verse 8, and where these two facts, meaning two celestial spheres, exist, there shall be another fact above them. that is, there shall be another planet whose

reckoning of time shall be longer still. And thus, there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until .com 9 into Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord's time, which Kolob is set 9 under the throne of God to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest. So you see what he's saying, he's saying, anytime you see a celestial sphere, you can know there's something that is of a higher order than that and a lower order than that. That's true for everything except Kolob. Kolob sits at the top of this order.

So that's the astronomy lesson. And then we get into the next vision. So that's going to start with verse 11. Thus I Abraham talked with the Lord face to face. So this is not Yermen Thumm, or if it is Yermen Thumm, it's somehow gotten to him to where he's talking face to face. As one man talked with another and he told me of the works of his hand or the works which his hands had made. I talked with another and he told me of the works of his hands, or the works which his hands had made. And he said unto me, my son, my son, now let's keep that phrase in mind. We're going to encounter this in Moses one as well. Think of all that is taught by saying that.

Just my child, my child is what God would say to any of us. I'll just say I use frequently with my kids when I really want them to know, we're having a little interaction, but I want them to know how much I love them and of our deep connection, I'd just say, hey, my boy, or hey, my girl, how are you doing, or whatever else, right? But just including that phrase,

it really does, it just automatically brings this tenderness to the interaction, right? Think of what that must do for Abraham or Moses when this is God, right? And we'll talk more about it in Moses one, but I think it's a key phrase. Because instead of just using their name, he establishes a relationship by saying my son.

Yeah, instead of just Abraham, let me say this, my son, my son. And I was thinking when you said that, I thought, oh, he does that to Moses too. Yeah, yeah. And I think we'll talk about it more there. There's a sense of ownership there, right? Like mine, your mind.

Yeah. And remember, if you remember back to the Abrahamic covenant, the key element of the Abrahamic covenant is relationship with God. Everything else in the Abrahamic covenant, the key element of the Abrahamic covenant is relationship with God. Everything else in the Abrahamic covenant focuses on that. Here with Abraham, that's a really important aspect to see that that's what he's establishing. This is relationship with him. Then he says, behold, I will show you all these and you put his hand upon my

eyes. And I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many. And they multiplied before my eyes. And I could not see the end thereof. So you get this sense that whatever he's been seeing before, he's going to see more of it now. Again, we're going to see the same thing with Moses. There's some remarkable parallels here. But at the second vision, he uses what he just taught him about astronomy as an analogy or an allegory for what he really wants to teach him. And that's about beans. And he's going to use the phrase intelligences.

Now intelligences is used in the scriptures to mean a number of things, and it seems like even in this vision, it means more than one thing. Intelligence is, it's sometimes used, both in the scriptures and teachings of prophets, to describe what we were before God gave us spirit bodies. Before it was something that existed even without God creating it, it's self-existent. But then God took whatever we were, and we'll call it an intelligence,

but whatever it was, and housed it in a spirit body. In the same way that our spirit bodies are later housed in a physical body by our earthly parents, right? I mean, I don't know that it's exactly the same way, but the same idea. We don't know the process by which God creates our spirit bodies, but He takes whatever existence before and He gives it a spirit body. So we have this intelligence, Joseph Smith teaches us, it's an uncreated thing, it's always existed.

But that's when he becomes our father, when we receive this intelligence, receives this spirit body, right? So it's going to be used that way, but it's also going to be used the way that we see it used in Section 93, where intelligence is light and truth. We're going to see it use both ways in this chapter. And especially when he talks about being being more intelligent than others, I don't think he's saying more of whatever that uncreated element was. And I don't think he means what we would call intelligent question, right, an IQ.

He seems, in that case, when he's talking about some beings being more intelligent than others, to be talking about how much light and truth they have. And we'll look at how we can figure that out as we go along. So we get in a couple of verses there, and like 13 and 14, he's going to talk about the stars again. And then in verse 15, he tells us, as we already read this, I'm telling you this, so you can go down to Egypt. Now we have, let's stop and ask ourselves, was God telling Abraham all these things?

Was he sitting in heaven and saying, you know, Abraham, so many great things Abraham can do, but what I'm most worried about is he's kind of weak on astronomy, right? And probably not, right? Or I'm going to tell Abraham these things go, you can go to the Egyptians, the Egyptians, they worshipped over a thousand gods, and they've got all sorts of these problems going on and so on. But my biggest concern is that they really don't get astronomy the way they should, right? Obviously not. God wants him to teach the gospel. This is the tool to enable him to teach the gospel. So here's where we're going to get into it.

In verse 16, he reminds him, if there are two things that exist, one is above the other and the colab is above all of them. And then in verse 18, he's going to switch that to saying, this is really an analogy about spirits or intelligences. So verse 18, how be it that he made the greater star as also if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning.'"

So this is the intelligence part, right? They existed before and they shall have no end. They shall exist after for they are no-lom or eternal. So no-lom is, we'd say o-lom but Joseph Smith's Hebrew grammar said this is how you pronounce that word so he'd put this G-N on the front. But anyway this is the Hebrew word for eternal. Now 19 is probably the key to the whole thing. Verse 19. And the Lord said unto me, these two facts do exist. So remember, that's the same thing he said when he talked about these celestial bodies, right? When two facts exist, one is above the other.

Here he's saying it, these two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other. There shall be another more intelligent than they, I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all. All right, so you see what he's saying? In the same way that if you look at the stars, and there's always one above another, that's true of spirit beings. There's always one that has more light and truth, or more intelligent than another, until you get to me. I possess all light and truth. Right. And this is what Moses will be able to go into Pharaoh and say, let me teach you about astronomy. And then you can say,

hey, Pharaoh, I know you think you're a semi-divine. I know you think you're kind of a god. And I know you think that, okay, you've got several kings like the King of Kuschen, King Zamas Batamia, and there's some are more powerful than others, but I know you think you're more powerful than them, but just like there's something more powerful than the Sun, there's something more powerful than you, and that is God, Jehovah. He is more intelligent, possessing more light and truth than everyone and everything else. So in the end, what Abraham chapter three is really teaching us about is our relationship with God. Again, that's why I think it's so key that he starts out with my son.

This whole thing is teaching us about our relationship with God and that God is above us. But the beautiful thing is it doesn't stop there. It doesn't just say, I'm above you end of story. Right. Kerry, I was gonna say, it sounds almost like a little MTC. All right, I'm gonna teach you the language

so you can go teach him. All right, I'm gonna teach you how they think, how they, all right, almost like Ammon and Limon. Right, yeah. This idea of, of, I believe in God. I don't know what that is. Do you believe in, great spirit? Oh, okay. I can, let's get some common ground. I understand where you're coming from so I can, I can build from there. So I really like what you've done here. This is fantastic.

Little Abraham, MTC here. Now, you're going to Egypt and teach them. Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is. And we miss out on that. If we're not willing to kind of pay the price to work through this, what's going on with these co-cob and the other things that we're going to do. And I think that's what we're going to do. And I think that's what we're going to do.

And I think that's what we're going to do. And I think that's what we're going to do. And I think that's what we're going to do. And I think that's what we're going to do. And I think that's what we're going to do. And I think that's what we're going to do. And I think that's what we're going. And we miss out on that. If we're not willing to kind of pay the price to work through this, what's going on with these co-cob and the colob and stuff and put ourselves in their mindset. Then we miss what the teaching tool God is using. So I think it's worth just kind of going through like we have to say, okay, what how would they have understood it? Oh, now I see the teaching tool God is using, I'm getting what's going on in the MTC. Thank you for pointing that out. That verse 18, as also, I mean, I underlying that and put in my margin just now, Abraham relate this astronomy lesson to differing spirits. He's like, that is great. That's like a pivot point there in verse 18. Now, let me... Absolutely.

Everything I just told you, let's relate this. Let's put it this way. I don't think this is the gospel according to Kerry, but based on scriptures, so hopefully I'm reading scriptures correctly, I don't think this means that whoever studies the most of the fastest and the hardest becomes godly first. This isn't about studying, it's about becoming. And as we become more godly, or we could put it, well, we will put it this way in just a minute, if you act on the light and truth you have, it changes your nature, which allows you to become the kind of being that can receive more light and truth. And then you act on that

and you can receive more light and truth. Now, let's also be very, very, very clear. None of us can act perfectly on the light and truth we have. So we need the atoning sacrifice of Christ to change our natures. So I'll do my best at acting on what I have. And then Christ will change my nature to be more like his, and that allows me to receive more light and truth. And then if I do give it my best shot, and if I'm sure that John's best shot is better than mine, and probably Hank's is too.

So I'm just teasing you Hank. But anyway, I'm absolutely convinced that you guys have fantastic best shots at acting on the light and truth you have, and some of us have mediocre best shots, and that doesn't matter. However good your best shot is, it's good enough. Then Christ changes your nature, and you become more like Him, and that allows you to be the kind of being that can receive more light and truth, and then you just keep going through that process again, and again, it's a cycle, right? It's a series of cycles. It's kind of reminding me of section 50, that which is of God is light and the receive of light and continue within God.

You know, keep giving it your best shot, keep repenting, don't then you'll receive more light. Well, let's keep going if it's all right, because I think this is where we get into all of this kind of ethereal teaching about one intelligence being more intelligent than the others, and God put it into some concrete terms of the plan for us. Right? So, let's go into verse 22. Now the Lord had shown unto me Abraham the intelligences that were organized before the world was. So when it says we're organized, I don't know this for sure, but I think that's the way it God says, because it organizes another word for created, right? So I think that's another way of saying,

once I had housed these intelligences in spirit bodies, I've organized them, I've put them in this kind of organized state of being. I don't know for sure, but I think that's what that's saying. So anyway, there are intelligences that are organized before the world was. So here we go with pre-mortality. In general conference, if the book of Abraham is going to be cited, the most common reason is to talk about pre-mortality.

Abraham a covenant is the next most common reason, but most common reason is to talk about pre-mortality. Pre-mortality is one of the doctrines. What we know about pre-mortality is one of the things that are unique about us as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We know not very much about pre-mortality, but more than most others. And this is one of the key places. We know more about it from this chapter than just about any place else. And you'll see it's precious little, but still it's so important, it's so key. So the idea is that there were intelligences that have been organized or put in spirit bodies whichever way,

before the world even existed. We were there with God before the world existed, right? And among all these, there were many of the noble and great ones. So even then, even in pre-mortality, there are some who are greater than others. I'm going to assume that's on the same principle. There are some who have more light and truth than others. It's not that they had a more innate intelligence or something like that.

It's based on what did they do with the light and truth they had. So he says among all these, there many of the nobleman great ones, and God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said, these will I will make my rulers for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good. And he said to me, Abraham, thou art one of them. Thou was chosen before Thou was born. We learned that Abraham was foreordained to be what and do, what he was going to be and do in mortality.

And I think some people get confused with that because of the idea of predestination that was such a big thing and so important in Joseph Smith's day. Right, predestination means you don't have a choice in the matter. But for ordination does so there's an analogy I found that really helps my students understand this. I can say okay, if you go through the temple, you're actually for a dain to be exalted, right? That's part of the blessings promised you. You go through the temple, you're for a dain for exaltation. But we all know that not everybody who go through the temple, you're fordained for exaltation.

But we all know that not everybody who goes through the temple will be exalted because not everyone will actually do the things that they said they would do when they were fordained to that. And I would suppose it worked the same way in pre-mortality. If we were fordained according to covenants and agreements that we made, and if we don't live up to our part,

then the fordination's not gonna happen agreements that we made, and if we don't live up to our part, then the four ordinations are not going to happen. If we do, then it will. All right, so that's something at least that can make sense to my brain to help me understand for ordination a little bit better. In a way, I think we're reading in Abraham 3 and Moses 1, we're kind of reading about Abraham and Moses getting their patriarchal blessing from God, which is not, I mean, I like patriarchs a lot, but God's even more cool. Kerry, I was just going to say maybe make one quick comment on how limited the Bible is

on a pre-mortal life and how crucial restoration scripture is to our understanding that we made a choice to come here, right? Without the restoration scripture, the pre-moral life is almost, we have a tiny view into it, and maybe five verses in John, and that's it. Yeah, yeah. The Bible has very, very little,

data packs actually written a few things on this, but in the Old Testament, we really get one verse about Jeremiah, where God says he knew him before he formed him in the belly. You get, and John, you have God talking about before the world was created, and you get a couple of things Paul talking about, you know, Israel being based on the people who were, how many people were going to come down and so on. And he's kind of hinting at, but doesn't give you anything really about pre-Alt.

And maybe Job, the sons of God, shouted for joy, but yeah, it's a hint. It's a hint at best, you know? Yeah, yeah. We learn more in these couple of verses, including the ones that we'll read in following this, but we learn more about pre-mortality here than all of the biblical scripture put together. And I'm not disin the Bible, right? I'm just saying hooray for the Restoration. But let's keep going, because this is when we get even more key information about pre-mortality

at verse 24. And there stood one among them that was likened to God, and he said unto those who were with him, and this is going to be very clearly Christ, right? So this tells us that already Christ was someone special, right? He has already acted on the light and truth He has so much that He is similar to God, right? He's advanced so much that we're already like, well, that one's like God, right?

Anyway, and he said unto those who were with them, we will go down for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, so he's talking about creation, and we will make an earth where on these made dwell, and we will prove them here with to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them.

Now, let's just take a break there. He's not proving us as because God didn't know. It's the process. This process we've been talking about, we need to give them the opportunity to receive light and truth and see what they do with it. And we get that if we keep reading. Verse 25, or 26, and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory

in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate. So this goes back to this principle with light and truth that we find taught in one way or another in tons of places in the scriptures. And that's this. If you receive the light and truth you have, if you act on it and receive it, that's really what it means to receive it,

then you'll get more. And if you don't receive it, then you'll lose what you have. There's not a static light and truth. There's no status quo for maintaining the light and truth you have. You're either getting more or you're losing what you have. Those are your two options. Right? And that's just the nature of, I guess, our beings and their ability to be receptacles that receive and hold light and truth. In any case, so those who don't keep it will not have glory added in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate. Now listen to this next part, and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads forever and ever. Now let's think about that.

This is this idea that we can keep receiving light and truth until we receive a fullness of light and truth. But that verse in a way reshapes the way we understand all of this stuff about astronomy and intelligences. Because if you didn't have this second part, if you just had up through verse 19, you could feel like, okay, I have this much intelligence, someone else has more, someone else has more, God has the most, and we're stuck there.

That's where it is. But this is telling us no, right? And we have places and scriptures where glory is equated with light and truth. So it's telling us no, you can have light and truth which will equal glory added upon you forever. In other words, God is telling us we can jump orbits. Right? Yes, you may be a planet that's orbiting here, but you can jump orbits and get closer and closer and closer to God and tell you

our nine to God on colop. Right? That's, that's what this is telling us that we're not static in our light and truth. We're not static in our light and truth, we're not static in our orbits. We're ready to move up. God is inviting us to be with him where he is. You can jump out orbits, I love it. Come on, there's the invitation.

Yeah. Yeah. That's good stuff. That's a good idea. It's so encouraging, it's so empowering, it's there doesn't have to be a dead end, anyway. And, but I'm stuck on verse 25. I think that's one of the greatest, like, purpose of life type things ever. We get to choose to follow. It doesn't mean that God doesn't know what we're

going to do. But here's a chance where we can know. It reminds me of that talk we had in this last general conference, the parable of the slope, right, the slope and the intercept. This idea that it doesn't matter where you start. I don't think God cares how much light and truth you have when you start. You can be seven million orbits away from him or ten orbits away from him. That doesn't matter. The question is, what are you doing with the light and truth you have? So important. So don't feel bad that President Nelson is more capable than you are and don't feel too great that you're more capable than I am. The question is, what are you doing

with the light and truth you have? Even if you have a crash, get back in and drive again. Get back on the horse. Yeah, that's right. I was just, I was gonna add one thing about Peter. I just love that idea that Peter recovers, you know, from maybe a bad moment in life. He recovers and turns around and becomes a mighty voice. So Alma the younger Paul, this idea of you can you can recover from a crash if we're taking on our drivers at analogy. Hank, thank you. And I love how the Lord didn't treat Peter like the three denial guy. He treated Peter as he knew he would be, you know, later. I think. And I love that he treated Peter based on his potential, we'll say it that way.

Yeah, and I think he treats all of us that way all the time. Well, these next two verses, I think, are actually a perfect segue to Moses, chapter one. This is fantastic stuff about pre-mortality that we will see echoed in Moses, chapter one, where we learn about Christ in Satan, right? And we really learn about them in Moses chapter 1, where we learn about Christ in Satan. And we really learn about them in Moses 1. But verse 27, and the Lord said, whom shall I send?

And one answered, and one answered, likened to the Son of man, here am I sent me? And another answered and said, here am I sent me? And the Lord said, I will send the first and the second was angry, and kept not as first of state. So this is the first person who didn't act on the light and truth they have and lost it and did it in such a way that he's not going to get it back. But it also teaches us Christ. In fact, we find Abraham using this phrase elsewhere. We find the great prophets using this here and I, that the Hebrew phrase is Haneini, which really does mean like, see me, here I am, here I behold me.

I was going to say, this is the calivizia, right? Doesn't he say the same thing? Yeah, that's exactly right. And we see it in several places. But the idea is that when the Lord says, I need someone, you just say, here I am. Do you see me? I'm right here and I'm ready.

Whatever you're asking, I'm ready. And none of us, I think, including at this point, Christ fully understands all that that will entail. I mean, if I read the accounts in Gessemony correctly, I don't think Christ understood until he was suffering it in Gessemony, the depth of what he was going to go through. But it doesn't matter whether we fully understand it. And let's be clear, none of us really understand what we're getting into when we sign up for marriage or for parenthood because it's harder and

better than we would have thought, right? But you don't have the faintest clue when you sign up or you just say, okay, I Believe this is gonna work out. Let's do this and and that's the attitude we need to have for everything God asks of us Sorry for this note of humor, but I think it's elder Bruce C. Hafe and that in one of his books He talked about one of his daughters saying, yay, I'm engaged. I'm getting married. I'm at the end of my troubles daughter saying, yay, I'm engaged, I'm getting married, I'm at the end of my troubles. Sister Haifn said, yeah, which end? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So that's that most of my problems, I either married or gave birth to.

I heard someone say, so yeah, yeah. And they are all of this, including mortality, is both worse and better than we thought it would be, right? Or more difficult, maybe not worse, but more difficult than we thought it would be, and that's the reason that it ends up being better than we thought it would be. God is more interested in our growth than he is in our comfort. Please join us for part two of this podcast.