Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Moses 1; Abraham 3 -- Part 2 : Dr. Kerry Muhlestein

Episode Date: December 28, 2021

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein returns to discuss Moses 1's application is essential today regardingspiritual discernment, the importance of spiritual experiences, and the reminder that the Lord is powerful to save His children and we are His assistants.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/episodesFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive ProducersDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: MarketingLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Rough Video EditorAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsKrystal Roberts: French TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to Part 2 of this week's podcast. This has been great. I've been looking so forward to Moses chapter 1. I love the vision he has, what he learns about himself. Maybe we can jump into Moses chapter 1. What do we need to know before we look at individual verses? Well, like we said, this is a part of the Joseph Smith translation, it's this revelation, Joseph receives.

But I guess the question we need to ask ourselves is where and when does this happen? And the answer is we don't know and we don't know, but we have at least some clues as to the when. Where is, we know it's an exceedingly high mountain. Is it mountain sign? I don't know, I actually kind of guess so, but I don't know the when We only have two clues

we have When Moses is talking to Satan He says that That he it's in verse 17 that God had talked to him in the burning bush So we know it's after he sees God in the burning bush in Mount Sinai. All right. And then we get the verse 25 and 26. And he's telling Moses,

you're going to go and deliver my people out of Egypt. All right, so it's in between those two events. Now that's actually a really narrow time window because it is from the burning bush that Moses learns he's going to go to Egypt and deliver God's people. And the next thing he's going to go to Egypt and deliver God's people. And the next thing he does is he goes to Egypt and delivers God's people. Now that process takes a little while,

but it's gotta be somewhere in that narrow time window. I'll tell you my theory that I think most people disagree with and that's fine there, entitled to their wrong opinion. But I really don't know, but I actually kind of expect that, or suspect that this might be at the Burning Bush episode, like this is the fuller version of that story, so that you get one version of it for kind of maybe a lower-law consumer version in Exodus 2 and 3, and then

you get this kind of higher-in-depth version that gets restored to Joseph Smith here, where we learn all sorts of stuff. So that that would have Moses when he sees Satan, because he has this vision, and this is also a good background for it. He has a vision where he sees God, the vision ends, and then Satan comes and visit him, and then God comes back. So he has two visions, just kind of like Abraham. He just had that nice chat with Satan in between. And so when he's talking with Satan, he may be saying, when God called out to me out of the burning bush, you know, just like a minute ago, when he called to me out of the burning bush two minutes ago, this is what he told me to do.

Okay, I think we're ready to, I'm ready to jump in. We've got 42 verses here of never seen before scripture that this, how old's Joseph Smith? He's 24 and a half. Yeah. And this is the kind of stuff that most 24 and a half your olds can write pretty easily. So yeah. All right.

Maybe yeah. I mean, this is really beautiful profound stuff. If you've read anything that Joseph Smith himself actually writes around this time period around 1830, he is not capable of writing this kind of beautiful profound stuff. There's no way, absolutely no way. It becomes far, it requires far more faith to believe that than to believe that this is inspired. Right? So, so we get this this introduction introduction that he's got up in a high mount, and then I love verse two, and this will be the language we recognize similar to Abraham chapter three,

and he saw God face to face. But then we get some other incredible information in verse two, and he talked with them, and the glory of God was upon Moses, therefore Moses could endure his presence. This is this doctrine of transfiguration that we talk about. Apparently, our natures are so incompatible with God's natures. His is so much more holy or full of light and truth than ours that we cannot be in the same place together. We would make him unholy and we can't withstand his presence. So this is going to be a fatal meeting for Moses if he stays in the same state he's in. So the Spirit will temporarily

change his nature. And that's really powerful. and maybe we can jump and look at a couple different verses for a second just to understand that better if we were to go to the end of verse 5 Where he says no man can behold my glory and afterward remain in the flesh on the earth I if I read that correctly. I think what God is saying is okay I've changed your nature enough to see some things and to be in my presence. If I was going to show you everything, I'd have to change your nature so substantially,

you can't go back. Right, you would no longer be compatible with the earth. And we actually get most of this kind of many experiencing this later, not in this experience, but later when he's up on the mount to all of Israel's down below Mount Sinai is up on the mount talking with God and he's up there for a long time. When he comes down, he has to veil his face

because he is still so full of light that the Israelites can't take him. He's too glorious for them. He's been changed, I would guess, transfigured for so long. It's not an immediate change back. It takes a while for him to get to be of this realm again, right? And you get that a little bit when you look at verse 11,

when he says, but now my own eyes have beheld God, not my natural, but my spiritual eyes for my natural eyes could not have beheld for I should have withered and died in his presence. But his glory was upon me, and I beheld his face for I was transfigured before him. So this is where we learn more about transfiguration than really anyplace else that we have to be changed to withstand God's presence. And that change seems to be changed to withstand God's presence. And that change seems to be exhausting. So you'll notice that when God leaves Moses,

he just like falls to the ground and he can't get up. We see the same thing happening with Joseph Smith. In one of his accounts of the first vision, he's on his back when it's over and it takes a while. Yeah, yeah. And we see it even when Moroni comes, right? Yes, Joseph Smith, he's hopping offense and he kind of passes out for a while.

And yes, he'd stayed up all night, but most 17 year olds can stay up all night and still hop offense without passing it out. I think that Joseph is exhausted from the change that has to come on him even to be in an angel's presence. Well, there's a, the Sydney Rigden example might, to the section 76 that, what did Joseph say?

He's not as used to it as I am. They practically had to carry Sydney out of the John Johnson farm. Yeah, and I find that interesting. Joseph almost is saying, I get transfigured so often. I'm kind of, I'm good at this now. Right.

It's not as much as shocked to his system as what I think. His system is not a shock by being transfigured. It's done this before. Moses sees God, he is, and let's be clear, this is Jehovah because that's who we interact with after the fall, but we should understand,

and this is really key for understanding the Old Testament. I think this is really, really important. Jehovah, I think this is the way I take it. Jehovah is Christ title when he is acting for and in behalf of the Father. This is Christ when he represents the Father. So he doesn't act as if he is Christ when he is Jehovah. He acts as if he is the father. We call it divine investor sure of authority. He is acting foreign in his behalf. That's not uncommon in the ancient world. So in Moses' day of Moses' from around the time of Ramsey's The Great, which I suspect he is, Ramsey's The Great makes a treaty with the Hittites. There's a representative that comes from the Hittites to interact with Ramsey's. He speaks as if he's the Hittite King.

He is treated like he's the Hittite King. He has the authority of the Hittite King. Everyone knows he's not the Hittite King, but they're gonna act like he is, right? That's that's the way things were done and the same thing is happening here. Jehovah is Christ acting foreign in behalf of the Father, so we will understand this best throughout the Old Testament if we do it this way. We keep in our, the back of our minds, this is Christ, but we think of it as the Father. That's how Christ and the Father intended us to think about it. They intend for us to understand this as the Father speaking to us.

It is through an intermediary, but think of it as the Father. So that will help us understand this, and that will help us understand this chapter because you're gonna have Jehovah speaking about Christ. And that seems weird, unless we understand he's speaking as if he is the Father. You know, you said it already, but I wanna repeat it,

because it helped me so much. I think it's probably been repeated by lots of people, but I think that Bruce Armour-Conkey said, all dealings of God with man since the fall have been through the sun. And Joseph Fillion Smith too. Yeah, and when I teach this to the students, I think of Jesus' titles, advocate, mediator,

intercessor, and then you kind of get that relationship. And so when the father does appear, what's he going to do? He's going to say, this is my son. So the baptism, mount of transfiguration, and so forth. But that really helped me a lot to get that idea of divine investiture. Oh, it's because he's speaking for the father because all delings since the fall are going to be through the Sun

But he and that so I'm glad you said that and I think it's really helpful. I love in the book of Mormon when The the righteous among the Nephites and Lamanites are Kind of astonished and he's like I'm the one who gave the lot that was me Yeah, I was the one talking to Moses in the bush there. So I'm not destroying a lot and fulfilling it. That was me. Yeah. Yeah.

And I guess while we're on the topic, another thing that is helpful for people is they're starting to study the Old Testament. And maybe most of our listeners know this, but they're probably a few who don't. And we should just make sure everyone knows it. When you're reading the King James version and you read where it says the word Lord and it's in all caps, usually the L is a big capital and then the ORD is small caps. That's the King James translators code for telling you that the name is Jehovah. In the Hebrew text it reads Jehovah there.

Out of respect for the Hebrew custom, which I guess I'm just breaking right now, but out of respect for the Hebrew custom of not using the name of the Lord, they didn't write Jehovah, they wrote Lord, but they include you in that assist Jehovah by writing it with all caps. So when you read that there, just in your mind and search Jehovah,

but as doing so, think, oh, the Father, being represented by the Son, but he's acting as if he's the father. So I think those can help us understand the Old Testament. I mean, if we could spend just hours just on these first few verses, but let's spend at least a little bit of time where God's speaking to Moses saying,

behold, I am the Lord God, the Lord God Almighty, all right. So again, he would be saying, we don't have it in the prologue, I price they didn't do the small caps, but I would assume because Lord God is a common phrase in the Old Testament that is saying the same thing basically saying I am Jehovah God Almighty and Endless is my name for I am without beginning of days or end of years and is not this endless now

I want you to think about What is the effect that all of this is having on Moses right now? What is the effect that all of this is having on Moses right now? First of all, he sees God face to face and God is so amazing and glorious that Moses can't even withstand his presence without being changed That's got to be fairly humbling I would guess right and if that's not humbling enough the first thing God says is I am almighty I'm endless. There is no end Right I'm guessing this makes Moses feel fairly small, right? This is fairly humbling. But note the next thing that happens.

And behold, thou art my son. Think that all that's implied in the parent-child relationship. Because children know, not when they're infants, but as they get older, they know, they can become like their parents. When Moses hears, you're my child, implied in there is, you can become like me. Plus, you have a special favored relationship with me. So now all of that humbling has also automatically turned

into ennobling, right? And this is a pattern that we see in the scriptures. It's a spiral. And we're going to see it in this chapter like three or four times. But God humbles and enobles us. Humbles and enobles us, right? Because if we get lifted up in our pride,

we're going the wrong way. So he has to humble us, but it's bad if the cycle ends there. He then needs to lift us up, but in the right way. Notice how he lifts him up in relationship with each other. That keeps you going in the right way, instead of off in the way where it's all about me. This is all about our relationship with each other. And then we have to get humbled again because we start to think it's all about us. And so he humbles us again, but then he'll know bless, but he'll do so in terms of this relationship.

And that's the beauty of the covenant, right? This is a pattern, it's a spiral. Hopefully it's a spiral going up and up. So it keeps happening again, but hopefully we go up and up. The covenant is designed to do that. Sometimes we call it the pride cycle or the idolatry cycle or whatever else, but it's really a covenant cycle

where if we keep the covenant, then we recognize we're getting our blessings from God. But sometimes we start to think it's because we're really cool. So God has to humble us, and then we recognize we're getting our blessings from God. But sometimes we start to think it's because we're really cool. So God has to humble us and then we recognize we need God and keep that covenant again and then we get the blessings and the covenant and so on. So I think we're seeing that here in Moses as well because look how he keeps going through this pattern.

We're gonna see it a little bit. So that aren't my son, but now look immediately he's gonna slam him down again. Right, I mean, so I'm lifting Yapa, he's gonna give him a little bit of So, thou art my son, but now look immediately, he's going to slam him down again. Right? I mean, so I'm lifting Yapa, he's going to give me a little bit of a humility body slam. Wherefore look, and I will show thee the workmanship of my hands, but not all for my works are without end, and also my words for they never cease, which I think my kids and my students think is true of me as well. But anyway, but all my works are without end, and my words for they never cease, wherefore no man can behold all my works without end and my words for the never sees where for no man can behold all my works

Accepted to behold all my glory and no man can behold all my glory and afterwards remain in the flesh on the earth That's humbling Right to say I can't even show you everything. I do you're not capable of it Even when I change you you're not capable But I have it to change you a lot more for you to get this right? but now look at the very next thing. And I have a work for the Moses, my son. So we'll keep going.

There's more in nobling, but just think of those. One again, my son knows him by name and he has something for him to do. Right. That's incredibly innobling. But as if that's not innobling enough, For thou art in the similitude of mine only begotten and mine only begotten is and shall be the Savior for he is full of grace and truth But there is no God beside me, right? So so again your like my son incredibly anobling now we're needing going to get back into the humbling thing though There is no God beside me and all things are present with me meaning there's no future past anything

It's all present for him the way Joseph Smith describes it is one eternal now For I know them all right all right, so Just in those few minutes the we've seen this spiraling pattern go through a couple times, right? And we all go through it. But then, and now behold, this one thing I show unto thee, Moses, my son, for thou art in the world, and now I show it unto thee. And it came to pass that Moses looked and beheld the world upon which you was created, and Moses beheld the world, and the ends thereof, and all the children of men which are, and which were created, and of the same, he greatly marbled and wondered. Moses sees everything.

Right? And if we're going to get back into this idea that everything's an eternal now for God, I think what happens, and we have to use the wrong terminology here, because we're very much beings that live time. But for a moment, and that's not the right word, but for a moment, God allows Moses to not experience time the way he doesn't experience time. I mean, it's pretty clear, if he has this vision in real time, he'd still be having it right now.

Yeah. Right. It can't be in real time. Yeah. He sees the future of the past. He sees the whole history of the earth in an instant, right? So I think God changes his nature in at least the way that he can stop experiencing time the same way God doesn't experience time, to see everything, and then he's placed back in time, and he crashes, basically, because that's where we get the presence of God

withdrew from Moses, that his glory was not upon Moses and Moses was left unto himself and As he was left unto himself he fell under the earth and it came to pass that it was for the space of many hours Before Moses did again receive his natural strength like a man and he said unto himself now for this cause I know that man is nothing Which thing I never had supposed and I don't think he's saying man is nothing at all. It's nothing in comparison with God right Now to really understand this let's let's put ourselves in Moses's shoes And I don't think he's saying man is nothing at all. It's nothing in comparison with God. Right? Now to really understand this, let's put ourselves in Moses' shoes. Moses, we don't know, he's maybe Ramsey's great, maybe Tutemoses, there was something,

but he grows up in the heyday of Egyptian power. He grows up when you go to these buildings that they built, and they are still, I think, the most incredible buildings that have been built. They are jaw-dropping amazing The most powerful army in the world Pharaoh is seen as semi-divine and he has power and wealth and prestige like no one on the world today does At least the prestige part and it depends I mean if you adjust for inflation then I think the wealth part as well So and, and that's Moses' view of man, right? Well, yeah, it's spent a little while of inflation, but that's Moses' view of man.

He thinks that man, and in particular, some men, are really something. And then he spends a minute or two with God, and he says, oh, I was wrong. Compared with God, man is nothing. And this is important for us. I think sometimes this Latter-day Saints, we give ourselves a little bit

of a watered down version of God. We like to think of Christ as our elder brother, which he is, but it's actually not a scriptural turn, it's not the emphasis he gives. We like to think of this warm fuzzy relationship, which is true, but we forget the might and the majesty and the glory of God. The kind of thing where he or any of his angels who are lower than he, the first thing they

always have to say to someone is fear not, right? Because just seeing them is so darn scary, right? We underestimate the might and majesty of the being who we call father. And it's wonderful to remember that he's our father, but it's also important to remember he is way, way, way out of our league. Right. I mean, orders of magnitude greater than we are, but because he's our father, we can jump orbits, right?

We can get there. I love this. And I always, when I'm in Helaman and it says, the nothingness of man or King Benjamin's people, they saw themselves in their own colonel state less than the dust of the earth. I'd love to say, why don't we use this for a youth conference theme?

Why isn't that printed on t-shirts? It's nothing. Moses wanted it. That's right, youth conference 20. And we'll get everyone a little band that says, I am less than the dust of the earth. And I think we have to get that. And what I love that's coming up is how Moses can hold the enobling things that God says to him and the humbling parts and keep those together in a perfect way, as he responds to Satan. But thank you for bringing that up

that he used to be an Egypt and the glory of Egypt and seeing all of that. And now he's gone, okay, man is nothing. Yeah. If I were to take you to Karnak or Albu Simba, you'd sit there and go holy cow. But then if I were to take you to God, which I can't do, sorry, I can do the others, but not that one. But if we were to do that you'd say, oh, I don't even know why I looked at those things. Wasn't worth looking at. Can I ask you another question? I have heard, I'm in a good mood,

yeah. I have heard that one of the etymologies of the name of Moses is that the Moses part is the same as Ramosis or Ramesses and that Ramesses is son of Raw and that Moses is son of no one. And which, if that's true, it's kind of cool that the Lord keeps telling him, thou art my son. And so I wanted to know if that's a reliable scholarship or not. So, for Moses' name, it's a little bit complicated, and I think sometimes we do a little bit more than maybe we can.

So, in Hebrew, the name is Moshe, right? And they translate it in English to most S S route. It doesn't have an S on the end of it in the Hebrew route, but the M S S is a really common ending of names in Egyptian and it comes from a verb, M S S it means to be born, born of, right? So, you're right, so Ramesses is born of God. It is quite likely though that Mosha is the Hebrew,

like when you take a name from one language to another, you just things happen to it, right? So, you know, Giovanni and John are the same names, right? So we always do things with names. So is it possible that Mosha is the Hebrew, you know, when you go through these changes from one language to another, is it from messes? It's possible.

I don't think we can be sure of that, but it's possible. If it is, then I would suggest it's probably not son of no one, because then you'd actually have to have something that says of no one. It means to be born, right? And he gets this name when she draws him out of the river. So, and what seems like, maybe she hadn't been able to have children of her own. And you know, this is Pharaoh's sister,

another Pharaoh's daughter, right? Another Pharaoh. Anyway, a sister in a daughter of different Pharaohs. She draws him out of the river. And so I suspect if she does give him the name messist, right, or having to do with being born, that she's saying he's been born to me. And in a way, it's implied of no one, meaning he's come out of nowhere, right? This is just a birth.

He just is born. And so it may be contrasting with that. So it doesn't imply that this is not particularly son of tar, or raw, oring with that. So it does imply that this is not particularly a son of tar or raw or something like that. But either way, I think it does have a significant tie-in to the fact that God is implanting upon Him emphatically. Do you know whose child you are, your mind? And I think God would like to do that

for every single one of us. All right, do you know whose child you are? I am the Lord God Almighty and you are my child. I always imagine Moses at that moment and I'm not inserting words in the Scriptures, but I always imagine him going in verse four, really, me, because what a statement that was from this being that is all mighty and endless. And I love that in one of the first vision accounts, Joseph Smith said, my soul was filled with love and for many days I could rejoice.

And maybe Moses, I think, would be having the same experience. Yeah. You get that idea having the same experience. Yeah. You get that idea as you keep reading. Yeah. Yeah. And then having him say, that weren't my son, and it's filling him with love. My scriptures are forever changed.

I've written humbling and obeling, humbling and obeling next to these verses. If you start looking for that pattern, you'll see it all over in scriptures. Yeah. And it's everywhere. Once you clue into that pattern, you'll start saying, oh, Jeremiah, oh, I say, oh,

God's doing that with all of us. And he'll do it in our lives, right? If you're not in the midst of that pattern, there's something wrong. So don't feel bad when you're getting humbled, just look for the anopuline step. And the key there is to remember your relationship with God, that's what it's all about.

Beautiful. So if we jump into the next part, I mean, this first part is key for understanding the next part, right? So the next thing, and we don't have to read every word of this, but the next thing is that once Moses realizes that he's nothing and so on like we've talked about, then Satan comes to him. And the first thing Satan says is Moses, let's at least

read that phrase, we're in second half of verse 12, Satan came tempting him saying, Moses, son of man, all right, so notice the emphasis there, son of man worship me. And look at what Moses says. And it came to pass that Moses looked upon Satan and said, who art thou? For behold, I am a son of God in the similitude of his only begotten. And where is thy glory that I should worship thee? So notice what's happened. First of all, when he says, Son of Man, he says, Son of Man, nothing, don't give me that. I know who I am. I am a son of God in some multitude of his only begotten. But what's more, I've seen real glory and it's not you. Right.

And that's key. I think if we want to, so one of the reasons I believe, my personal opinion, one of the reasons it was so important for God to restore this lost story about Moses is because it gives us a pattern, this symbolic story, right? It's a real story, but it teaches us symbolically about how to avoid Satan. And if I'm understanding President Nelson recently, I mean, Satan's out to have us, and we better have the spirit with us

to withstand this, right? So one of the keys is, well, there are two keys that are given here, that Moses has given the experience to withstand Satan. There are a couple more that we'll get in a minute, but the first two things we see is one, understand your relationship with God. And two, you need to have had enough experiences with God to recognize that the counterfeits when you see it. All right, so if we were to tie together a couple things,

President Nelson has been saying lately, he's told us you have to have the spirit of inspiration, you have to have a revelation if you're gonna survive spiritually in the last days. In this last conference, he pleads with us, a number of times pleads with us, tune out the world, tune in to God. Right, and I think at least part of the reason,

and probably the major reason is, Satan is trying to deceive us. The world is hurling ideas at us at a faster pace than we've ever experienced in the history of the world. We are bombarded so completely and frequently by the ideas of the world that we better be having these experiences with God. In my opinion, this is one of the major reasons for the new children and youth programs because to find out these goals of what God wants them to do, they have to have interaction with God. They have to receive some inspiration and revelation so that they have that experience so that then they can discern between the garbage the world is throwing at them and things that are really from God. And I'll just tell you again, in my personal opinion, the greatest trial our youth and our young adults are having right now

is they're so awash in the ideas and the teachings of the world that they're really struggling with discerning between the world's ideas and God's ideas. It's a plague. It is killing them spiritually, this inability to discern. And so often they think that the world's ideas are good and godly ideas and they're not.

And so they start to reject or question the prophets on all sorts of things or the scriptures and all sorts of things because they've been convinced by the world. And this is telling me the key is they need to have more experiences with the spirit. So that when the widely ways of Satan come and hit you, you can say, you know what, I've felt the spirit before and this isn't it. Oh, so good. That President Nelson's last

to talk in general conference about giving the Lord your time. Exactly this. He said, if you're getting most of your information from social media, you know, if you're spending more time there than time with the Lord, you're going to get, you're going to have a lot of trouble discerning the Holy Ghost. I think and the new children and youth program is so glad you said that. The idea of getting your goals not from a book or a pamphlet that somebody else wrote, but getting it from your, your patriarchal blessing from connecting with God, you have a work for me to do. What is that work supposed to be for me? That is exactly what it's about. It's asking more of us than getting our goals

from a merit-batch book or a personal progress book. It's saying, you get on your knees and find out what God, what work God has for you to do. Absolutely. Thanks for mentioning that. Kira, I'm just loving this, really. I think this is so good. Yeah. That verse 13, I'm just loving this. This is so good. Yeah. That verse 13, I loved what you said.

This is a textbook example of, I mean, he understands his nothingness without God or, but he also gets, I am a son of God. In fact, he told me I would be like the only begotten. He holds those ideas perfectly together. But I love that in the new, aronic priesthood theme, the young men start by saying, I am a beloved son of God,

and he has a work for me to do. So it starts with that identity. The young women say, I am a beloved daughter of heavenly parents with a divine nature and eternal destiny. And that is just this starting point. If I get my relationship with God, some of these temptations can be put in such a light that I know exactly what to do next or how to discern.

I love how he says in verse 15, I can judge between thee and God. I know exactly how to tell the difference. And I've heard Hank talk about, don't be confused about who your enemies are. And I think what you were saying, Kerry, if you're so awash in social media, you don't know who's friend or foe. If you're not very discerning, this is great stuff. Yeah. Yeah. If you're going to be awash in social media, make sure that a whole bunch of it is coming from the church. Right? The church has put great stuff out there, so get into that. If you're going to get on social media, spend at least some of your time

doing it in a way that you are experiencing that connection with God and the Spirit, so that then when you get the next thing you click on and it's not of God, you can tell the difference. click on and it's not of God, you can tell the difference. Kerry, I have a brother-in-law who's in the secret service and he has spent so much time with real money and counterfeit money that it doesn't take him long to, he can just pick him out. He can pick out the real money and the counterfeit money where I'm looking at it all looks the same to me. He's just, I like what you said there. You need to have enough experiences with God that you can not only recognize God,

but you can recognize the counterfeit. Yeah, and Moses goes on with that, right? And the next verse he says, I couldn't see God because he had so much glory without being changed, but I can see you find. So what's, you know, you're not full on me here. And then as you said, John in verse 15, blessed be the name of my God

that a spirit hasn't altogether withdrawn from me. So he's not having the same spiritual experience he had before, and this is also really, really key for all of us to understand, but especially they are youth and young single adults, young adults, I don't care whether they're married or not. They need to understand this. That we all have spiritual highs.

None of us maintain those spiritual highs forever, right? That we don't choose when the Spirit comes on. As strongly God chooses that, when it's the right time for it and so on. But we need to remember it. That's one thing. And you can see, most of this is remembering when he felt the Spirit really strongly,

but he also is doing that, which makes it so the Spirit doesn't depart completely. So as long as he has the Spirit with him, at least a little bit, he can remember what it was like when he felt it strongly and he's able to discern, right? And judge and he's not gonna fall for Satan because God told him worship only God, right?

So then he tells Satan to leave. Get the handset and deceive me not in verse 16. And then I love verse 17 and we made reference to it before, but let's let's read verse 17 and 18 because they're really key. And he also gave me commandments when he called unto me out of the burning bush, saying, call upon God in the name of my noly begotten and worship me. Now look at verse 18. And again, Moses said, I will not cease to call upon God. I have other things to inquire of him. I love that line.

I hope that's all of us. I hope that's all of us. I've got some more questions. I don't know when I'm going to get them answered, but I've got some more questions, so I'm never going to stop asking. I'm never going to stop going to God. Right? I'm not going to, it's so go ahead and go to

whatever news app you use or whatever else. That's fine, but don't stop ahead and go to whatever news app you use or whatever else is that's fine, but don't stop going to God to get your answers. And if you have questions about the book of Abraham or Joseph Smith and something you read about him or about the church's position on this social issue or that social issue, go ahead and search elsewhere but don't stop asking God

and don't stop doing those things that keep the spirit in your life or you're going to be deceived. You will automatically be deceived if you don't have the spirit with you and you don't have experiences with God. You have to have those things. And so whatever else you're doing, make sure you're doing those things so you're not deceived or you will be deceived.

Hank speaks about lame and lemmeal and how they hadn't had experiences with God. In fact, I'd love to ask my class, you know, what's the difference about lame and elemmial and how they hadn't had experiences with God. In fact, I'd love to ask my class, you know, what's the difference between lame and elemmial Nephi? And because I don't want them to just say, oh, they had a bad attitude. No, let's be more specific. What is it? First Nephi 2, 12, they knew not the dealings of that God who had created them. They didn't have experiences with God. And that was the difference. And this idea, I have other things I wanna ask him. And he even uses the word inquire here in Moses 118.

And what did Nephi say to Lemma Llami? Have you inquired? Have you inquired of the word? And I thank you for pointing out. And I said, no, we don't do that. No, we don't do that. Well, and then it's sadly, well, he doesn't answer my prayers. He makes us know such thing, no one would ask.

No, he will. He would love to, you know, if you will inquire in his way and in his time, but anyway, this is, I love how this, we can connect other scriptures to this and I'm just sitting here thinking, okay, like Joseph Smith wrote this. It's too amazing, too profound. And how what year are we looking 1830?

Yep, June of 1830. And then notice what continues to happen. So he's already told Satan to leave once. He tells him at the end of verse 18 again, departs hence Satan, and then Satan starts to cry with a lot of voice and he commands Moses to worship him again. Just telling Satan. And then Satan starts to cry with a lot of voice and he commands Moses to worship him again. Just telling Satan to leave didn't do it, right? Satan's pretty powerful and look at verse 20, and it came to pass that Moses began to fear exceedingly. I mean, Satan is powerful enough that even though

Moses has seen and had this experience with God, when he sees Satan in his full nasty power, it's scary. And then when he starts to feel fear, then it gets worse. And as he began to fear, he saw the bitterness of hell. But note the next part, nevertheless, calling upon God, he received strength, and he commanded saying, depart from he's saying, for this one God only will I worship, which is the God of glory. Now I see actually a really strong tie between that and the first vision experience that

Joseph Smith has, because the first thing most Satan seems to do is to make noises and different things like that, to kind of make him afraid. And once he starts to feel this fear, and we're all going to feel fear, all right? I mean, there's no way for us to just say, I'm never going to be afraid ever again. We're all going to feel fear, but once he feels that fear, then Satan can really start to oppress him. And it gets to the point where Joseph Smith thinks, I'm not going to survive this. This is too much, and I'm not going to survive.

But even with that thought, he doesn't stop calling on God. He keeps praying and asking God, and the first deliverance isn't the light and Satan's gone. The first deliverance is that he gets hope that he might survive and he keeps praying. All right, that's for Joseph Smith. Satan's not just gone immediate for Joseph Smith. He, Joseph, just keeps calling on God and then he's Smith. Joseph just keeps calling on God and then he's given the ability to keep calling on God. And that seems to be what's happening here. Satan is getting scary for Moses, but Moses doesn't give up.

He keeps praying even though this is lasting longer than he thought it would, even though this is worse than he thought it would be, it's scarier than he thought it would be. And he's done this stuff that he thought would get rid of Satan and it hasn't gotten rid of Satan, but he's not gonna quit calling on God. There's a lesson in there for us.

For whatever is oppressing us, addiction, depression, temptation, whatever it is, it's often longer than we think it is. It doesn't leave when we think it should. We got a priest of blessing, we called on God, whatever. It doesn't go away like we hope it will. The key is keep praying. And sometimes the deliverance that comes is the ability to just keep praying, to keep turning to God. Eventually, the deliverance will come as it did for Joseph Smith and as it does for

Moses. I'm thinking of section 50 again, continue in God. All of the things that that can mean, you continue praying, you continue being a disciple, which means constant course corrections, right? I wanted to ask you what you thought about verse 19. I mean, it sounds like the Satan is having his own identity, crisis, saying, I am the only begotten, worship me. I thought, wow, what a chilling moment that must have been.

Satan relies on deception. My opinion is he relies on self-deception more than anything. That I think Satan is so self-absorbed, that's what causes problems in the first place, and it's what continues to cause his problems and he deceives himself. And most of us do. We like to deceive ourselves when we're being selfish and not following God. And then we want to convince others of that same deception. And I think that's exactly what's happening here. Satan is desperate to convince Moses of something that isn't true, although I suspect that Satan is starting to believe it himself. So I don't know though, I'm just making that up. is starting to believe at himself. So I don't know though, I'm just making that up.

I think so too, Kerry. Self-disception. But I would encourage everyone to read a talk from Elder Holland called Cast Not Away Therefore Your Confidence, where he talks about this experience Moses has. And one thing he says is, one message he gets is, don't let your guard down. Don't assume that a great revelation, some marvelous illuminating moment, the opening of an inspired path is the end of it. Remember, it isn't over until it's over.

And he goes through saying Satan's going to try to get his licks in. So just remember that, that you know, we have these incredible spiritual experiences and don't be surprised. One afterwards, here comes the adversary to challenge that experience. So he comes before, which Joseph Smith, he comes after with Moses. I think that's a pattern.

I think in 3 Nephi, when the sign of the Savior's birth had been given immediately, there was this spin machine that Satan started up to try to explain it away. And there's that pattern. Great spiritual experience. Okay, expect Satan's gonna try to diminish that, reduce it, spin it, something like that, and that's a pattern. So, with that same pattern, let's look at what happens. Because Moses, we've saw at the end of verse 20, Moses, Moses is gonna keep calling on God. Satan's gonna get more upset at the beginning of verse 21,

but Moses received strength. This is that part we're talking about, and we saw it with Joseph Smith as well. He's given the ability to keep calling upon God. And this time, he's going to say, in the name of the only begotten, depart hence Satan, and it came to pass the same crowd with the loud voice with weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. This still isn't going easy, by the way.

Any departed hence, even from the presence of Moses that he beheld him not. So the fact of the matter is, we can do everything right, but without the power of Christ, we're no match for Satan. If you think you can go ahead with Satan and win, you are crazy. You're just flat out crazy. This is a battle you are not going to win. If you want to go against everything that the world is going to throw at you and find your way through this life on your own, you're going to lose. The only way you come off conqueror is if Christ

is there backing you up. That's the only way you defeat Satan. You're not powerful enough on your own, but with Christ you up. Right, that's the only way you defeat Satan. You're not powerful enough on your own, but with Christ you are. Kind of reminds me of this time, where I had a son who was in sixth grade and a son who was in kindergarten, and the kindergartener was out on the playground

after school, they were waiting for something. And so he was playing on the playground and like some first or second graders kind of starting to pick on him a little bit. And he wasn't sure what to do. And then his sixth grade big brother shows up. And problems are over, right? Six graders are a lot bigger than first or second graders. Problems are over. He's okay. I mean, no one had to get hit or anything like that, but it just ended.

When your big brother's there and he's enough more powerful, this was a battle. The kindergartener wasn't going to win. He didn't have to win. He just had to have his big brother show up. And that's what happens for Moses, right? We are not gonna beat Satan, but if we can get our big brother to show up, battles over. And that's a powerful thing that Moses learns here and that we can all learn.

I love it, carrying that determination. I will not cease to call upon God. I don't care what happens. I will, yeah, that determination of, I will win this eventually. Right? If anybody was battling addiction or anything. Right, right.

It takes both his determination and God giving him strength to be able to press on in his determination and then later deliverance comes. Don't think it determination, and then later deliverance comes. Don't think it's gonna be overnight, the deliverance comes. You just have to first buckle down, and then get some strength from God to keep buckling down. And Satan is gonna have some small little victories in the middle of there, right?

He's scaring the Dickens out of Moses through all of this. So... Even if this was just the one chapter Joseph Smith gave us, I mean, it's one of hundreds, but if this was just a one chapter Joseph Smith gave us, I mean, it's one of hundreds, but if this is just a one, this is amazing. Just this one chapter. I agree, and especially when we get to the end,

I think Moses 139 will get there, but I think it's the most profound verse. It affects the way we understand every other verse we read. So, we'll get there. In fact, we're going to start to get there pretty quickly, because what we get is verse 25, God, Moses calls upon God and God comes back and he says, blessed are Thelmosis,

for I, the Almighty have chosen thee. And this is when he tells him he's gonna deliver Israel out of bondage. And then verse 27, I find this so interesting. And it came to pass as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, ye, even all of it. And there was not a particle of it,

which he did not behold, discerning it by the Spirit of God. And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul, which he beheld not. And he discerned them by the Spirit of God, and their numbers were great, even numberless is the sand upon the seashore. Now, we already read in verse 8,

that he saw everything and everyone, but somehow here he sees more of everything and everyone than he saw in verse 8. So however great verse 8 was, God has actually even more in store for him. That's incredible to me. It just gives you a glimpse of how much we're not getting, but something to look forward to and how much we will get. So then after all of that, and he's seen all these things, Moses finally has the chance to ask the question you want to ask.

Remember, that's what he's been wanting to ask out another question. So he finally does. He asked some two questions in verse 30, and it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying, tell me, I pray pray the why these things are so and by what thou made us them. So basically he said, why and how did you make these things? Now God's answers are really interesting. And I think there's something we often don't notice here,

but I think it is significant. So let's look at the answers, all right? So verse 31, again, Moses has to be transfigured so he can withstand being with God. And then once we learned it's transfigured, God answers him and he says, he answers the first question, the first question is why. And note his answer for the first question. For my own purpose, have I made these things, here is wisdom, and it remained with me. Basically he says, I've got a really good reason and I'm not telling you. Yeah, this is for me to know and you to find out, right?

And so he is going to tell him, in verse 39, he answers the question. So then I ask myself, so why doesn't he answer it right away? And the only thing I can come up with, the assumption I make is, well, I know, he must not be able to understand the answer he gets in 39 until he gets the information in between. But somehow the information in between makes it so he can understand the real answer better.

So he tells them to begin with, I've got a really good reason I'm not telling you right now. Let me tell you some other things. And then he gives him the answer. So this stuff in between, I guess we need to know, right? And the first thing he tells him is the answer to question number two, how he created the world. Now, he could have given him a geophysical answer, an astrophysical answer, a molecular answer, a subatomic answer, but there are all kinds of ways of geological answer.

There are all kinds of answers of how he creates the earth, right? Note the answer he gets him, which I suppose is the most important answer, what he really wants him to know, because this is what he tells him. By the word of my power have I created them, which is, might only be gotten sun, who is full of grace and truth. That's the most important thing. That's what we really need to know about creation. So next couple of weeks, we start studying creation, and there are all sorts of fantastic things to study in there, but this is the stuff you have to remember.

The real how of creation is by Christ. Everything else is subtext. Keep that in mind. It will all work out. Forget that. None of it's going to work out. But now we're going to get this other information. So he needs to know apparently two different things before he can get the answer as to why he created these things. One is the how. I create them by Christ. The next thing is, again, really it's in humbling stuff and helping Moses understand, again, even after all he's seen the might and majesty of God. So he's going to tell him, worlds without number have I created. And I also created them for my own purpose. And by the sun I created them, which is my only begotten. And then he talks about Adam,

but I want to read verse 35 and 36. 35 through 38 are what apparently we have to know to understand verse 39. So he says, but only an account of this earth and the inhabitants there I've given to you. So that's important to understand. We often talk about so, how does this work for other worlds and so on. And God is telling us, I'm just telling you about this world.

I'm not telling you anything about those. So whatever it is, we think we know about them. We're wrong. Okay, he doesn't tell us about those. So, speculate all you want. It's great to think. But let's know God's not telling us. Now, for behold, there are many worlds that

have passed away by the word of my power. So these are worlds that have come and gone. Right? Now, think about how long this world's been around and stuff. That's saying something. There are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power, and there are many that now stand, and innumerable they are in demand. You are not capable of understanding how many worlds they are. There are, but all things are numbered unto me for they are mine. And I know them. That really tells us something about God and who he is, right? And it came to pass that Moses,

speaking to the Lord, saying, be merciful into thy servant and tell me concerning this earth. So he says he will, but verse 37, in the Lord God spoken to Moses saying, the heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man, but they are numbered unto me for they are mine. Again, that his amazing is plus the way he knows those who are his. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof, even so shall another come, and there is no end to my works neither to my glory. So before he gives him this answer, he wants Moses to understand on yet another level

how omnipotent and mighty a majestic he is. And then after all of that, he will say this, for behold, this is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Now, that changes everything. Yeah, that's the why, and it changes everything. I'm not exaggerating when I say, I understand every other verse of Scripture differently because of this verse.

I know why God is doing everything he's doing, why he's saying it the way he says it, everything else we read is said that way, God is doing it that way because he's trying to bring about our immortality and eternal life. And I pair it actually with John 3.16, these are the two key verses in all of scripture to me. He's doing it because he loves us

and because he loves us, he's trying to bring about our immortality and eternal life. But I will also think that I need to understand this in light of all these other things that show us that it's by Christ and God's might and majesty. And when I do that, then I suddenly realize, let's just put it this way, and it's a simple way, but I think it's really important. God's business is to exalt me. That's what this verse tells us to bring us immortality and eternal life.

His business is to exalt me. And based on everything he said and shown us, he's probably pretty good at what he does. Right? He has the ability through his son and through who he is. He has, if he can do worlds without number that have already come and gone, he can exalt me. I mean, it may not be easy, but it's got to be a smaller test than what he's already done. If he's done all of that, it can't be that hard to exalt me. This is a being who is capable of so much, and if what he wants is to exalt me. This is a being who is capable of so much and if what he wants is to exalt me, I think he probably can.

Yeah, he says often, I am mighty to save. I'm good at this. I love, I think there's a lot of moms and dads out there who are, who are, they believe, I know he can save me, but I'm worried about my children, I'm worried about my failures to raise my children right or my perceived failures to raise my children right. And I love to read this in context with, I was just trying to look it up. Second Nephi, I think it's second Nephi 20 maybe,

where the Lord says, I am able to do my work. I love to put those together This is my work. It's it's not it this doesn't say this is your job moms and dads to bring to pass the immortality and a turn life of your children He says no, this is my work and I am able to do my work and I hope that gives parents hope out there. He knows how to do this and He will as we've talked about, people will be judged according to what they've done with the light they've received. And don't be too hard on yourself. I was going to say too, there was an LDS living magazine article 10, 15 years ago that said this was the most repeated verse in general conference. Now every six months, maybe that changes, but Moses 139 is apparently very often repeated. And if you've ever gone to the scriptures.biu.edu or if you go to the app citation index,

you can search the number of times any verse has been repeated in general conference since the restoration, and it's fun to see the hundreds of times that Moses 139 has been repeated. If I could just say one more thing, Stephen Covey in one of this books said that Albert Einstein was once asked, Hey, if you could ask God anything, what would you ask him? And that Albert Einstein said, Well, I'd ask him how he created the universe. And then he paused and changed his mind and said, No, wait, I'd ask him how he created the universe. And then he paused and changed his mind and said, no, wait, I would ask him why he created the universe?

Because then I would know the meaning of my life. Good. And those are the two things Moses asks, right? Look at that. Yeah. Yeah. Why? And how?

John, I wanted to throw in one cross reference. Second Chronicles 20, verse 15, when Jehosephat, we're gonna study this story later on this year when he's scared to go to battle like the parents you've talked about and God reminds him, Jehovah reminds him, the battle is not yours, but God's. This is my fight, this is my work.

And along those lines, maybe I could share a story. I think this would be all right. It's a story of a friend of mine, and I won't mention names or anything, but who his family has kind of fallen apart. I've left the church and stuff like that. And he's been really worried about since his children are now receiving kind of mixed messages from their parents about keeping his children in the church and feels like it doesn't know if they're going to be saved. And he talks about praying about that. And one time having,

and just saying, what do I need to do to save my children? And having a really strong experience where he got the answer very clearly, you don't save your children. I save your children. You leave this to me. I'm the one who saves them. Right? And I think that's worth remembering, just like you just said, Hank, that this is his battle. This is his work. And he, as you said, John, he is mighty to save. I think we were, I'm not saying we shouldn't, you know, it says to work out our fear with fear or salvation with fear and trembling. And we, I mean, we should, we should be in some ways consumed with this. But at the same time, we should not be stressed about it. If we are giving it our best shot, God is more than able to change me. If he can change all these worlds into specialized fears and whatever else, he can

take a little dingy old me and change me. Oh, thank you. I found that reference. Let me me and change me. Oh, thank you. I found that reference. Let me for our listeners, second Nephi, 27 and it's the last part of verse 21, I will show into the children of men that I am able to do my own work. And I love putting those two together. This is my work to bring to pass your immortality and eternal life. And I know how to do this. I can do my own. Now we are called Abel. We are called willing in the sacrament prayers. I'm willing to take upon the name of thy son. I'm willing to always remember him. I'm willing to keep his commandments, but God is always called Abel. I'm able to do my own work. I earned in the last couple of years as I've, you know will ask hey how do I help my roommate how do I help my son my daughter how do I help them and One thing I've started to say is remember you're the assistant right you're not the primary

role here you're the assistant so just listen to the to listen to the lead as he does his work. Because we often think, well, I'm the one, I've got to, you know, I'm center stage here. I've got to do something and I'm saying, well, if he asked you to, then do. Yeah, our role is to bring people to Christ. Christ is the one who brings them to the Father, right? That's way beyond us.

We've just got to get him pointed. So I could say, that's where you need to go. And sooner or later, they'll remember that we pointed them. They may not remember it when we want them to, but sooner or later, they'll remember that we pointed them. Christ will do the work. It's interesting that when he asked him, how'd you do it? He just pointed him to Christ.

So, we have Christ pointing Moses to himself. Right. How'd you do all this? Just listen to me, just follow me. Well, and it's so interesting, you get this relationship between the Godhead that, I mean, what we know of the Father is he keeps introducing the Son. But what is the Son going to do? He's going to testify of the Father and bring us to the Father.

What does the Holy Ghost do? He testifies of both of them and brings them to the Father, right? They work together, but it's funneled through Christ to the father. Sometimes I think we're so worried about being not Trinitarian, that we don't talk about the unity of the Godhead. The one this, yeah, I was thinking about that very thing.

It's just fine if he speaks for the father, you know? They're one. Yeah, I think sometimes we confuse ourselves by being obsessed about this, whereas if you look at most of the prophetic writers, they're not that concerned about distinguishing between one and the other. They'll talk about them the same way.

They're really just not concerned about it. And I'm not saying that we should stop believing that they're three separate beings. There are. But Christ is pretty clear. Well, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father, you've seen the Father, you've seen me. We just, Christ's purpose in many ways, Elder Holland taught this, was to reveal the Father to us. And in many ways, by just being like the Father. And that's how we learned about the Father. So thank goodness that we have that intermediary

who can reveal the Father to us and bring us home to the Father. Boy, this verse 41 is, I'm reading this going, wow, in a day when the children of men shall esteem my words as not. And Carrie, you are talking about, you know, I mean, it's so into social media,

but I'm not so much into the words of God and the impact that can have on your soul. Look at this. That sounds like our day. Yeah. Yeah. And that's when he's going to give us the, these words again, when we, when people have decided we don't care so much about God. He's going to give us something that should make us care. And I hope that people will study this and that we will care more about God and recognize that he cares more about us than we thought. I love what you said there, Kerry. This is from that same Elder Holland quote, talk that I quoted. Elder Holland quote talk that I quoted

Elder Holland says like Moses don't lose your confidence don't forget how you once felt don't distrust the experience that you had right Satan's gonna try to get you a second guess your spiritual spiritual experiences That tenacity is what saved Moses when the adrift sherry confronted him and it is what will save you Tenacity to hold to your spiritual experiences. Kerry, this has been so great. Thank you so much. This is just fun stuff. I always knew I love this chapter, but you have expanded my mind on this. That enobling humbling thing, I will never forget that. Yeah, and for me, it's that Abraham 3. Let me show you how they, I've gotta give you a little MTC experience, because I've read that

before going, I don't know why he's doing this, I bet Carrie does, I've actually thought that as I'm reading it, I'm like, I bet Carrie understands it. And I love that, that as also, that as also pivot point in there is, but there's something more important than stars and planets and that is souls. So let me start talking about those.

That's great stuff. It's fun, it is fun stuff. Kerry, this has been, I mean, just a fantastic discussion. I feel like these two chapters, and I'm just, I'm more excited for our Old Testament year just because of what we've done today. Tell us, Kerry, what's it like being an Old Testament Egyptologist scholar and being a member of the church? What's to give us just a little bit of your journey or experiences? That's a great question. I mean the journey would be a long, long story, but I'll tell you

just I guess in brief that as I learned that how much I loved the scriptures and as I felt that you know when Alma talks about that joy and it tastes good to you, it tastes delicious to you, I think it's the phrase he uses in Alma 32, As I learned that it started to taste delicious to me, but I also recognized that I was going to be unhappy if I spent the rest of my life teaching because I decided I wanted to teach seminary at that point and I thought I'm going to be unhappy if I spend the rest of my life teaching this and I can't do it as well as I could if I studied more. So everyone will have a different journey on what studies, what studying more looks like for them, but I personally felt directed to go to graduate school.

There were sometimes where it felt like a battle where people would tell me, this isn't historical or this isn't accurate and I feel like okay, I have to battle. But most of the time, it's only when I had specific people trying to convince me of stuff then in the end was just silly. When I would just investigate things on their own terms. Studying history, studying archaeology. I'm an archaeologist, I study archaeology, study textual analysis. I'm also a philologist. It's not often you get both, but weird set of circumstances that have made me both a philologist

and an archaeologist and usually end up being one or the other. Philology means the study of texts and words and languages to understand something. So as I study the text, as I study the archaeology, as I study the history, they always just combine to help me understand better and understand God better. It verifies the scriptural text, right? Archaeology, I find it always verifying the scriptural text and helping me understand it better. And so that's been my approach is to look at these things. I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. I want to understand better. And it just turns out that when you

do come to understand better, it verifies the word of God. But there is something so enriching and exciting when you can take a couple of little things, like, okay, something from Moses 3 or Abraham 3, something from Moses 1, something from my historical knowledge of Egyptian history, and suddenly it coalesces and something makes sense, and I feel God's love more, and I know He wants to save me more. And that's kind of what's happened for us here, but that kind of thing happens for me all the time. I just find when we do what Joseph Smith asks,

or well, God asked for Joseph Smith, to study by learning and by faith, that really just bring everything we have to the table table and then see what God can do with it. That God does some pretty fun and in nobling things that enrich our lives and draws closer to him and enhance that relationship with him. I absolutely love it. John, season two, episode one in the books and an excitement for the old testament. I can just feel it. It's it's coming. Yeah. What a great way to start. Thank you so much. Dr. Mulestein, thank you for this. And I hope people will feel the same excitement. I'm feeling right now about there's some really beautiful things in here.

And fundamental things, who we are, why we're here, what God wants to do with this, why everything else is here, super fundamental things to they chose a good place to start Moses one in Abraham three, didn't they? Yeah, it's good stuff. Relevancy and antiquity is what Elder Maxwell called it. But you're not antiquated, Dr. Mielstein, we are grateful to you. My kids tell me I am. You're fantastic. We'd love to have you here and I'm sure we'll have you back. Thank you, Dr. Kerry Mielstein. Thank you for everyone who stayed with us today. Thank you for listening. We love you.

We want to thank our executive producers, Steven Shannon Sonson, and our sponsors, David and Verla Sonson, and our production crew, David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Nielsen, Will Stoten, Kyle Nelson, and Scott Houston. And we hope you'll all join us for our next episode, our next Old Testament episode of Follow It. [♪ Music playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background us on social media, come to Facebook, come over to Instagram and find out what we're doing over there.

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