Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Proverbs & Ecclesiastes • Part 2: Dr. Lincoln Blumell

Episode Date: August 28, 2022

Dr. Lincoln Blumell continues to examine wisdom, the light of Christ, and how knowledge has been given to various men and women throughout the ages.Please rate and review the podcast!Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/old-testament/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the follow HIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producers, SponsorsDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-h

Welcome to part two of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes with Dr. Lincoln Blumel. Again, kind of focusing on relying on the Lord. Verse 26, Lord shall be thy confidence. Well, that could actually, if the word is trust, kind of going back to the Lord as thy trust. That's what kind of hard-killing back to what we saw in three. And really keep your foot from being taken. You get into four, what you're getting here,

you know, it says, don't just know wisdom, but really love what wisdom is. here, you know, it says, don't just know wisdom, it really love what wisdom is. So you really seek it. And then when you get into, you know, four verses, you know, 10 to 19, it's really like, well, there's, there's two paths. There's the path of the wicked and there's the path of the just. And it's saying, stay on the path of the just or the righteous. I can not think in scripture, the scriptures this idea of two paths. One, Nephi, or you think of the sermon on the mount, choose the right path and stay on that one. It's very easy to divert from it. So it gives you counseling how not to divert from that path. Perfect. I think what we're talking about here can be illustrated in so many lives

that Latter-day Saints and non-Latter-day Saints go through something horrifically difficult but continue to trust in the Lord. They stay on the path that both of you talked about. This is a story from President Monson, April 2009. The talk was called Be of Good Cheer. He talks about a woman who went through World War II, March of 1946, less than a year after the end of the war, then elder Ezertab Benson visits Germany. And he meets a woman who bears this testimony. President Monson tells her story.

She and her husband lived an idealic life in East Prussia, then it come the war. Her beloved young husband was killed. She's driven from her home. The journey was over a thousand miles on foot. As the days turned into weeks and weeks into months, the temperatures dropped below freezing. She stumbled over frozen ground. Her smallest child, a baby in her arms, her three other children struggled behind her. The oldest just seven years old, pulling a tiny wooden wagon. Then the snows came,

and one by one the unthinkable happened. The tiny forms of her children, all four of them, go cold and still. Says her despair was all consuming. In this moment of overwhelming sorrow and complete bewilderment, she felt her heart with literally break. In despair, she contemplated how she might end her own life. And then as these thoughts assailed her, something within her said, get down on your knees and pray. She ignored the prompting until she could resist it no longer.

She knelt and prayed more fervently than she had in her entire life. And then this is the prayer, dear Heavenly Father. I do not know how I can go on. I have nothing left. Except my faith in thee, I feel Father amidst the desolation of my soul and overwhelming gratitude for the atoning sacrifice of thy son, Jesus Christ. I cannot express adequately my love for him.

I know that because he suffered and died, I shall live again with my family. That because he broke the chains of death, I shall see my children again and we'll have joy and we'll have the joy of raising them. Though I do not at this moment wish to live. Let me say that again because it's so good. Though I do not at this moment wish to live, I will do so, that we may be reunited as a family and return together to the, it says when she finally reaches a city in Germany where she can stay, she was literally in the advanced stages of

starvation. And yet she stands in a church meeting and bears a glorious testimony. That is the epitome of what we've talked about here. Trust in the Lord with all-night heart, get on the covenant path and stay there. Hank, we were as a family the other night watching a church-produced video more recent called the refiner's fire about a woman I believe her name was Kim Martin who lost her whole family and just super inspired by it but also just thinking wow that power of trusting we kind of watch a story like that or hear a story like that and think boy I hope I have that in me I hope I have that in me. I hope I have that in me. I like that, John. That kind of trust.

I don't know for sure. This ties in well with four verse 25, where I talk about this path, the righteous, and get to 25, says, let thine eyes look right on. But I think a better rendering trend should be, let your eyes look forward. And let thine eyelids look straight before these. So focus ahead ahead look forward.

Whether you think of the tree of life, the Book of Mormon, keeping your focus, not everything is going on, the building, everything else focused on the tree, right? The iron rod. I think of this idea keeping your eyes forward. I think of Peter when he's walking on the water for a time with the savior in Matthew 14. He diverts his glance, start looking at the waves and everything is going on and this starts to sink. You know this path and look forward. Don't look this side, keep moving forward.

Love it. There's this verse 18 reminds me of one of my favorite verses in all of scripture. The path of the Jess that you just said, Lincoln, is as the shining light that shine if more and more until the perfect day. Does that remind you of the doctrine of Section 50 verse 24, that which is of God is light and he that receives light and continuous in God. That sounds the same as that idea of the stay on the path and continuous in God receives more light and that light grow with

brighter and brighter until the perfect day. It's one of those that I thought, wow, I thought that would probably be footnoted there because they're so close, but it isn't. But that's one of my favorite verses. I have probably like you Hank and you Lincoln, like a hundred favorite verses.

No, this one's my favorite. Today, today, that one's my favorite. It's my favorite. That idea of light growing brighter and brighter and unto the perfect day in Proverbs. And you think the perfect day here at the Hebrews like the full day or when all the lights out noon, when it's totally bright and then light is overwhelming, you can see everything. This is one of those come follow me lessons that you really need to sit down, you and your scriptures and a pen and Really just find what speaks to you Lincoln. What do you want to focus on next?

So much here in 50 and 60, but I think verse one is really key a soft answer Or you can have it as a gentle answer or response Turneth away wrath but grievous words stir up anger. And so, out of the disposition, one ought to have right, be thoughtful in how you speak. The wise do this. Be gentle. Lincoln, present-hinkly, liked to this same verse. This is a talk called corner stones of a happy home. And one of the cornerstones he gives is the soft answer. He said, the writer of Proverbs long ago declared a soft answer, turneth way wrath, but grievous

words stir up to anger. I hear so many complaints from men and women that they cannot communicate with one another. Perhaps I am naive, but I do not understand this. Communication is essentially a matter of conversation. They must have communicated when they were courting. Can they not continue to speak together after marriage? Can they not discuss with one another in open and frank and candid and happy way? Their interests, their problems, their challenges, and their desires?

He goes on, he says, there is need for much discipline and marriage, not of one's companion, but of oneself. Husbands' wives remember, he that is slow to anger is better than the mighty. He quotes another proverb there. Cultivate the art of the soft answer. Isn't that just a great phrase? Cultivate the art of the soft answer. It will bless your homes, it will bless your lives, it will bless your companionships, it will bless your children. I think as a father, probably the times in my life where I've felt the worst about my

parenting is when I didn't have a soft answer. I wasn't gentle, as you said, Lincoln. You can kind of correlate one in 18. This evening, it's also picked up again in James, where he talks about, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath, but again, the Greek words are actually anger. Slow to anger, but swift in hearing. I sometimes hear what we have two ears so should listen twice as much as we speak with one mouth. I won't even share with you guys the embarrassing way my mouth has gotten me into trouble over the years, not listening, but speaking,

or maybe thinking after I speak. We ever gotten those out of order, spoken and then thought about it, and when you should probably think about it, then speak. Oh, that's funny. People sometimes say, oh, don't worry about that person, they don't have a filter. And maybe it's just a break, just an out of filter,

but just something that slows us down before we answer so quickly. But I just always loved verse 17, better is a dinner of herbs where love is, and this is kind of as a contention type of thing, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith. And so stalled ox must be the stake in potatoes of that day, right? Compared with the salad. So it's better to have a salad with someone you love than a nice steak with someone to wait or someone who hates you. Yeah, these are some of those that as a kid we enjoyed and laughed at even.

I'd have a salad with you, John. So did the ancients just keep a quote book? I mean, did they say, my grandma used to say, and then they wrote it down because some of these, they don't seem to fit together. They're just a quote after a quote after a quote. You kind of wonder, you have this book of proverbial wisdom. When we get into 16 and really into 22, 16, what you're going to find is they may be more arranged around here, kind of what the culture is, the royal section of the proverbs that have to do more with like court

values and settings, like we'll get here in a few verses, and it will talk in 10th and 15th about kings. You will have some thematic units, but yes, some of the organizing principles, not only discernible. Yeah, I was going to say it does feel that way that sometimes you're just getting a quote after a quote after quote, they're wonderful, but you're like, what's going to happen next? There's not much of a storyline when it comes to proverbs. This is more you could search it and find the thought for the day. Well, I guess we're in a 16, better as wisdom than gold, which we've seen.

Somebody's kind of repeat, you know, acquisition act in three. I do think 18 is a good warning. Pride goeth before destruction and a hottie spirit before the fall. And just a warning. This would be a time to go read President Benson's talk on pride. I remember as a missionary I read that frequently. I probably should read it more as I'm getting older. There's a funny story of President Hinckley with a man who thought himself was a pretty good speaker. I think of this one often because it happens to me. He thought he was a pretty good speaker and he went up and he just kind of fumbled his way through his talk and he sat down all sad and

disappointed in himself. I don't know if this is true or not. If it's not true, it should be. Apparently, President Hinckley said to him, if you'd gone up the way you came down, you would have come down the way you went up. So if you would have gone up, humble, you would have come down happy. You went up thinking you were great. And you came down thinking you weren't so great. That's a proverb of President Hinckley. We're going to the point now. We're kind of in a way as we can see some repeating. So for 20 trusting in the Lord that person is happy 25 there's some roads again the roads of life the road of Yeah, 32 you slow to anger. We just talked about that a moment ago. I do like 31 a hori head is a crown of glory

If it be found in the way of righteousness or gray hair. Is that what that? Hori is a gray head. Yeah gray gray hair. And so your older, ideally, you should have obtained wisdom. A gray head is a crown of glory. How many of our listeners need to mark that one? Proverbs 1631. The Hori head, the gray head is a crown of glory. John, do you have any gray? Yeah, my temples, I think that's what they call them, right? I liked 1717, a friend love it at all times. I've had friends like that who have been there for me in dark times, who have come through for me.

I could start naming them, but I'd forget some, and a friend love it at all times. It's a great one. I got to go back to 1632. He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty and then the parallelism he that rule with his spirit Then he that takeeth a city and it's kind of that Are you in control? I kind of a self-what you call a self-discipline thing self-control self-discipline now. Yeah It's better than someone who can take a city, but you've got control of your own spirit.

That is good stuff. Lincoln, you've mentioned a couple of times here that you want to get to Proverbs 22. Let's jump in there. What do you want us to see? A few things in here. I think in first verse, obviously, really important. A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches and loving favor rather than silver and gold. This idea of having a name or your reputation. Your reputation is valuable. Having incredibly valuable. And here it's kind of contrasting between

what the wise do and what the fools do here in the first 16 verses. So the wise will have a good reputation, have a good name. The wise will have a good reputation. They'll care about that. It matters to them. If you have four, by humility and fear

of the Lord, our riches and honor and life comes through, putting the Lord first your priorities. Seek ye first the kingdom of his God, oh God, and all these things shall be added to you. Lord, is he'll focus on your first, have your priorities. Seek ye first, that's Jacob too, isn't it?

I think in the sermon on the Mount. Matthew 6, then, yeah, you have it over in Bacamormon also, but you start with that, your priorities. In this case, the Mount. Matthew 6, then in, yeah, you have it over in the Book of Mormon also, but you start with that, right? Your priority is, in this case, the number one part is fear of the Lord. It all starts with there. You have reverence, and now you move from there. We've talked about six already, you know, training up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it, right? I think probability is here. Why is word right to work with your children to love them to educate them? And I think you'd say chastise them when need be. Correct. To love them, you chastise them. Yes. Yeah. Lincoln, I don't think the author wants us to

judge other parents with chapter 22 verse 6. Train up a child in the way he should go when he is old. He will not depart from it. So I look at John and one of his children, let's say, isn't following the gospel path. I don't think the writer of Proverbs wants me to look at others and say, well, they must have not have done it well, right? As a parent. No, no, I think it's probability. See, you do this and probability will,

hopefully we'll have a good outcome. And of course, in the inscripture, I can imagine I was a very good parent, yet taught as children. And he says, he, I'd goodly parents, they taught me a very good parent. Yet taught his children. In Nephah I said to you, I'd goodly parents, they taught me. Didn't resonate with some of his children. Never gave up. At the end of his life, he was still, well, I would say something like wisdom in the Book of Mormon, right? Second, if I he sits down and counsels them at the end, gives them wisdom on what they should do. And so I think you never give up. And you're

trying to just trying to teach them. I like that. We can think of plenty of parents who we'd have to put in the failure category if we started saying that the behavior of their children is the way to gauge their success. Samuel, we've seen this year, Jacob, Israel, we've seen this year. You mentioned Lehigh. There'd be Alma, Alma the elder would be in that group. Alma the younger would be in that group. And then that whole rising generation, yeah. Yeah, Mosiah King Mosiah. There's a story I've heard.

I don't have a reference on it, but I think it was President Harold B. Lee that someone said to him, hey, the Joneses are having trouble with their children and President Lee said, yeah, and Heavenly Father's having trouble with some of his. And so, you know, we're all in trouble.

That's a great story, John. But I do think Lincoln, you're right. Training up a child in the way he or she should go is better than not training up a child. Not in the way. And I like what Lincoln said, it's a probability. This is wise counsel. In fact, I have a tree outside that needs to be staked. And I told my son, if we don't get that tree staked right now, it's going to start growing how the wind blows it

over. And I think I'm going to turn it into a lesson now from Proverbs 226. I'm going to go out and say, let's train this tree in the way it should go while it's, would you say Lincoln? It's because right now it's malleable, but if I let that tree grow. If it stiffens and hardens, then it's much more difficult. Much more work to easy to work with what cement, right? Then dry. Interesting. You bring that up because when I think about humility, talk a lot of humility, I think of the word meek, meekness, because one of the meaning at meekness lowly, but one of the meanings of you know, the root meaning of meekness is Fashionable and what it means by fashionable meaning you can actually fashion it. You can mold it. That's a sense of meekness.

It can be molded still if you're meek, you can be molded. You can be worked with you don't break. I Like that. We just don't want any parent listening to go, oh, I should have done better. If we could even apply a lesson, we've already learned from Lincoln today, which is look forward. Trust in the Lord.

He's there, Savior. If you have a child, you feel like is off the path. Trust that the Lord is mighty to save and let him direct your path in what you should do. Go to the Lord. Ask him, what do I do with this child? Yeah, Lincoln brought up Lehigh and Saraya, and I just love that the Book of Mormon starts out with a family that has problems. It's not perfect. They struggle, and there's ups and downs, and they're in the wilderness, and they're having more children, and Lehigh has to sit down with Jacob and say, I, you've never seen Jerusalem, I, you've seen the rudeness of your brothers

and it gives them a perfect chance to explain opposition and all things and and I think it was President Voike Packer who gave this talk back in 92 about called it our moral environment and he said that judging parents by how their children turned out would only be just if we lived in a perfectly moral environment. And that is not now possible. He became a moral environmentalist in that talk. It was really helpful, helpful talk. And also Hank, as we brought up section 46, we'll be judged according, suiting his mercy, what's Lord say,oting his mercies according to the conditions of the children of men. That one gives me hope too. Book Mormon starts out with a family with all sorts of ups and downs,

and the Lord's going to soot his mercies according to the conditions of the children of men. So hold on to those for some hope. Yeah, and remember the Lord is mighty to save. This wouldn't say trust in the Lord if you couldn't trust in Him. You can trust Him. There's nothing your child can do that falls outside where the Lord says, oh, I did not see that coming. The Lord, the great Jehovah, what did Joseph Smith say contemplated it all and has made ample provision for the redemption of all people. Lincoln, let's keep going in 22. What else do you wanna see?

We've covered a lot of, there's, well that's kind of funny, 13. The slothful man or the lazy, right man, sayeth, there is a lion without, I shall be slain in the streets. It's kind of like, you know, you give these absurd excuses. We're not doing something.

That's what they do, right? The dog ate my homework. This is what the ancient dog ate my homework. I can't go and do something. So it might be a lion out there. Am I killing me? There's a lion out there. I might, I might, I might, I'm going to use that. I thought I got to throw this in here. I had a light in the mood a little bit and that is funny. I'm going to use that the next time I get a, Sarah will say, hey, take that trash out. And I'll say, whoa, whoa, whoa, there is a lion out there.

There could be a lion out there. I am not taking the garbage. I will be slain in the streets. Are you crazy? So this is the lazy man coming up with a reason why he can't work. I'd never seen that before. I love it. I thought it'd be kind of a comical one to throw up. But you know, what's interesting, you get into 17 and you actually get a shift now in the Proverbs. So it says, bow down nine here and hear the words of the wise. I think it's saying there's really an authorial shift now. We're gonna hear from out the wise people. And what's interesting

is if you go down and you go to verse 20 look what it has here have not I written to the Excellent things in councils and knowledge now just a note on this It says excellent things, but a better reading that's been reconstructed now from the Hebrew is not excellent things But in fact something to the extent of have I not written to the 30 things? It's shelloshim. In fact, in the Greek and the Latin, it talks about being threefold. And so the Greek and Latin translation are already getting to this. It seems to be widely recognized now for the last century of who are these wise?

When you start going through this, there's a number of parallels here. And some really quite close to I said before there's this Egyptian wisdom text by a man called a menimo pay. A menimo pay. Yeah, a menimo pay lived as best we can tell during the Ramsey period, sometime you know, about 1300 to you know, 1100. And there was a pyros found but had in 30 chapters the wise sayings of a menomopay to a son, wisdom literature.

And when you start reading that, you'll see that it seems to be that as they redact this, they bring in that wisdom. And they include this here. It's 30 sayings. And this goes in through chapter 24. For example, right, you go to 22, rob not the poor because he is poor, neither oppressed, they afflicted in the gate. And in chapter two of a menimo pay it says, but where robbing the poor and oppressing

the afflicted, there's other parallels that people can find that I think there's too much there to be a coincidence for it not to be right or relationship there. Is somebody that might be troubled? Oh my goodness, what? Why is Proverbs relying on some Egyptian wisdom? I guess I would say, well, the Egyptians can be wise, by all means. And I kind of look at this,

is for me, here's what would be a response for some of this material is section 88-1-18. And look what it says here. I'll just pick up kind of part with the verse. Seeky diligently and teach one another words of wisdom, right wisdom. Yay, seek out of the best books, words of wisdom, right? Wisdom. Yay. Seek out of the best books, words of wisdom. Seek learning even by studying also by faith. And so as I see this, I think there

are picking up on some Egyptian wisdom. You already have Solomon, right? Interaction, right? Ever early on, Israel with Egypt. And so things, interesting kind of picking up on, hey, there's other wisdom out there. There's the quote unquote, best books in the ancient world. Well, as Israelites, we can draw on and use some of that. Now, you adapt it a little bit to this. If we think about wisdom, yeah, there's good books out there. What can we use that we can go in and help us be wise? Lord actually gives us commandment.

And so that's how I kind of look at this interesting section where I think it's pretty clear there's talking about some, here's some Egyptian wisdom. Now that we're going to draw upon, we can adapt it. And there's a lot of good benefit from it. I like that a lot. I love this link and it reminds me of a statement from the first presidency way back in February of 1978 for anybody who's a little bit nervous that the book of Proverbs is borrowing from this Egyptian sage, a Minimope, listen to this, quote, the great religious leaders of the world, such as Muhammad, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers, including Socrates, Plato,

and others, received a portion of God's light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals. And then this statement, I'm not reading the whole thing, but this piece reads like an article of faith. We believe that God has given, and we'll give to all people sufficient knowledge

to help them on their way to eternal salvation. So I think this is right in line with what you're talking about here, Lincoln. Yeah, I think there's some wisdom of the age that could be useful, the Israelites can come and use. And so they're consulting some of the best books of their own day. I think this is fantastic, Lincoln, that you've made that connection with Proverbs 22. We still have a few more chapters to go, Lincoln.

What do you want to cover? We have 31, I guess. So that's the one who come follow me to the last chapter. Yeah, we better do that. Yes, well, 31. It's a really fascinating chapter. So 30 and 31 interesting chapters, because here it's clear, there are two individuals

that we don't know much about. You have the words of Agor in 30, but we're gonna look at 31. Here it's the words of King Lemuel. And this is kind of a fascinating, you know, who is Lemuel? Some have thought, well, maybe this is kind of the name in Hebrew is means like two or four gods. So maybe it's some kind of diifer for Solomon.

I don't think that's probably the case. And it talks about here, it says, the prophecy that his mother taught him. And again, in verse one, we have this word for prophecy. Is this word here that's being used and it's masa? And so some try to say it was a prophecy. It really looked more like an oracle or pronouncement. So some will say, well, this is the word is the Lemuel, the pronouncement, right? This mother taught him. So she taught something wise. Or another way it is read is of King Lemuel. And then you have a prophecy, but it's Masa as a place. So it'd be the words of King Lemule of Masa.

And Masa, if you go back into Genesis 25, 14 or 1 Chronicles 130, this is a descendant of Ishmael, and so it's this territory kind of in Arabia. And so some have wondered, is this a king? Some said, well, maybe it's a king in Arabia in a be eighth seventh century BC, which is also kind of interesting. And again, if that is the best reading here on this, it's fascinating, by the way, just as a footnote here, the word Lemuel only appears in the Old Testament twice, verse one, verse four. And so if you have a king in Arabia in the eighth or seventh century BC, and then we have an Alemmial popping up right in the Book of Mormon, I kind of find that fascinating with Lehigh and kind of an animastic reference there. But the timing is right. So if that is the case, but again, no one's really knows for sure who this

Lemuel is. I would probably say most kind of are leading toward, well, it's probably a king of somewhere in Arabia, but again, has wise counsel. There's best books, has some good things, as Mother taught him. And so as Mother's not teaching him, okay, when you're a king, this is what you ought to do and not do. And when you get down to verse two, right, it's what my son, what the son of my womb,

and what the son of my vows, the Hebrew there is ma or what, but I think the force of it is better like, you know, no my son No son of my womb like NO, no son of my vows saying no don't do these things Okay, and then she gives strength about what not to do and he says well as a king Well, here's what I don't want you to do. Well, first of all don't give all your strength to women We can think here right? Well Solomon for example as he was, when you read back in one King's 11, concy binds and women were his downfall. So as mom said, okay, don't do this.

Son, I think another good advice. Don't give yourself over to drink. I think we can think of a lot of examples of royalty or kings getting too much involved in drink. I think of Book Mormon, right? King Noah, Messiah 11. Yeah. You know, this is what he does. He's saying, no, avoid this.

It'll be a real temptation for you in this position, but do not do this. Don't do this. Don't get involved, right? Spend your energy on all these things or on drink. Just say some rather interesting advice though here about, well, drink. Well, give it to the poor. They can forget their problems, but you don't touch it. You need to judge, which is kind of, you know, okay, there's some wisdom right, 2700 years old. Eight, nine, again, you're given power and judge righteously, especially over the poor

needy. And so some really sage counsel from his mother pleaded the cause of the poor needy. And this is their response to me as a king to go and do this. And so you have this council to start here. And then you get into 10. And this is where we have this talk on the ideal woman. Think it's kind of, you know, the wisdom. But it's actually a woman here. What is the real woman like, the ideal woman?

So we've looked at 10. Who can find a virtuous woman for her price is far above rubies? And it says virtuous here. What's interesting here, if you go to the word underlying this, a better rendering here, I would say, is strong or capable. Who can find a stronger capable woman? If I don't get the word virtue, well, the King James transitors are here, influenced by Latin right, vertus, which means, you know, virtue actually means strong in the original meaning,

right, going from Latin. And so it's saying, who can find a strong or capable woman? In fact, even a meaning here, a sense of a woman who's like a soldier. This is what it is, and it will start now telling you what this woman is as it goes through the ideal woman ends then with, well, she fears the Lord. As we saw back in 17, but there's something even more interesting here in this section, beginning in 10 down to 31. What you have here, if you look at the Hebrew, is you have an Acoustic. And what an Acoustic is in Hebrew.

It's where each verse begins with a letter of the alphabet, and it goes in succession for all 22 letters, starting with alif, and then ending at the end with taav. That's the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet in the last alif. Yeah, Lincoln, just point these out. So chapter 10 starts with the letter, so verse 10, these out. So chapter 10 starts with the letter, so verse 10, start, it begins with, you know, the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet, which is, and then verse, al-Aleph, right? Think of like, like, al-Aleph. Yeah, like alph in Greek. And then each successive verse through the end starts with the next letter, and there's 22 total, 22 total. And so it goes through. And so you have a cross-dix and Psalms, for example, where they'll do this.

And typically it's trying to say, this thing encompasses it all, right? If you think back, you get a new testament. I am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. Alpha, the first in the Greek, omega is the last Greek letter. So it's saying, kind of, this woman is everything. This is it all. Interesting. We talk about, right, alpha male.

So here is our alif female, which is even more than an alif female. She's an alif female. And so it's kind of putting this emphasis on here that this pattern that you don't see in English, it's not mentioned here, but it's not accidental. This is going on. Yeah. And so it's really saying this is the utmost. She encompasses it all.

I love this. This is one of those places where there's things that are hidden in plain sight that you do not see if it's in English, but if you saw it in Hebrew and you knew the Hebrew alphabet, you would see that. So it's like, A is for her altruisticness, B is for her, benevolence, C is for her charity, D is for her delightfulness. And you don't know that because we're not reading it

in Hebrew, but it lets you know there's more here than just let's think of a random bunch of traits. It was something that was really worked on. That's awesome. Oh yeah, I mentioned earlier, there's really not many JSTs and proverbs, but it's interesting in like this, and the JST is not here, but the one JST

that actually is the most meaningful in all of Proverbs is back in Proverbs 18, 22, which reads, who so findeth a wife, findeth a good thing, and obtain a favor of the Lord? And the JST actually says, here it changes, it says who so findeth a good wife, hath obtained favor of the Lord? It's actually changes.

And I think here, we get to this time, I say here is the ideal wife, idealized, right? Woman, what you're looking for. And of course, you'll have, you know, the fear of the Lord and wisdom, but you're all the things she does in her household. And so really saying, yeah, her price is far above rubies. I want you to say that phrase again. And it's an acrostic poem, ACRO STIC. Yep. Acrostic. And what you have here in this, a cross-dick, a stico-singreek is a line, and acro is kind of the top or beginning of a line.

So each beginning of verse starts with a successive letter and it goes all the way through the alphabet. And so it's saying there's something important going here, but it's kind of imputing this yet. I think that everything, this woman encapsulates everything, all letters of the alphabet. She's the all in all. Was this still going to King Lemuel or did this start a new section that wasn't part of

what his mother had given him? Well, this seems here, right? The words of King Lemuel, it just kind of goes on. So it seems that he's the same question. Who can find this woman? Who can find this capable woman? Well, this is what she's like. This is great. You'll quickly see, right right what does she do? Well, she is

industrious Her lights never go out. You know, of course is idealized versus 18 She layeth her hands to the spindle and the disc staff right so spinning yarn doing this and this interesting is you'll have to find ancient Epitaphs when they have depictions of women they'll have to be holding a spindle and a distaff because it's kind of the What they'll say for women was very respectful if you're really training this well Then you're really the ideal woman who can you manage your oikos or in Greek your household well And she stretches her hands to the poor she gives to the needy 21-20 she clothes her family in clothes right there scarlet and purple. These are actually royal colors

And her husband's the others comb president in verse two there we go family enclosed, right? They're scarlet and purple. These are actually royal colors. And her husband's the eldest, quote, in president in verse two. There we go. Right. And her husband's known to the gates. He's sitting there talking. She has strength and says honor or splendor. And when she speaks, what does she have?

Well, there it is. She has wisdom, 26. She has that. And so I think in the book of Proverbs, it talks about, you know, young man, young man, young man. Well, women are here, but it's very clear. No wisdom is for the woman as it is for the man. It can be acquired by both.

That's fantastic. John, what were you going to add? I also think if you're not careful, you may read this as a woman and say, oh my goodness, I can't possibly live up to this. And that's not what we want to happen either. It's just a wonderful list of desirable traits. None of us are going to live up to the list, but these are some great ideals. They just happen to be in the order of the Hebrew alphabet.

This is President Uktorff in a talk in praise of those who save. He says, and now just one word to those of our single brethren who follow the deception that they first have to find the perfect woman before they can enter into serious courting or marriage. My beloved brethren may I remind you, if there were a perfect woman, do you really think she would be that interested in you? In God's plan of happiness, we are not so much looking for someone perfect, but for a person with whom throughout a lifetime, we can join efforts to create a loving, lasting and more perfect relationship.

That is the goal. So John, that was just a funny reminder of what President Uttarov said. And now we get to go to the book of Ecclesiastes. And I have always wondered what that means because we talk about ecclesiastical leaders and things like that. What does the word mean before we jump into it? It says ecclesiastes or the preacher in the Old Testament. Well, that's a good question.

And we get this word ecclesiastes. What we're getting here is we're getting the title of the Greek translation to Hebrew work, where they take this word in Hebrew, co-helet, which is called as preacher. And the Greek comes along and say, well, this is an ecclesiastes, which is basically one who assembles. Now, if you think about ecclesia, our church, we'll engrique the word ecciara, it can mean church, but even before Christians start calling things churches, an ecclesiast just an assembly. And so what an ecclesiast day is,

is somebody who assembles things. And so it seems to be here, it's one who is a assembling material together. Right, we're talking about Proverbs, kind of a assemble together. And now this also is a assemble together because not unlike Proverbs, this work is not linear in a number of ways. It kind of ebbs and flows and topics are kind of treated

one sense, then stopped and then picked up again a few chapters later. And so this where you're getting this sort of clasiascities from some of you who's who convenes an assembly or this is assembling material. So we'll see the preacher, but something like an assembler. Okay. The one who goes and brings all this work

together and not unlike proverbs, there'll be some aphorisms, but there are some more sustained, certainly, sections here, right, multiverse. But it'll approach wisdom and a life a little bit differently. Whereas proverbs is about probabilities of, if you do this, good will happen. This will say, well, you may do what's best and there are no guarantees, or they're not nearly as many guarantees, or the probability actually is not quite as high. So life is more complex than you think. Yes. It's interesting about this text, because we know the rabbis were debating its canonicity. Is this really scripture? Because they kind of read it and said, you know, it's really fit in scripture, and it's already in there. But because the way it reads,

yeah, some traditionally had wondered that very thing. Today, it's actually read in Judaism, they'll read it during the Feast of Tabernacles. What's the overall message of the book, Lincoln? The phrase that will appear most, as you see, verse two, vanity of vanities. Some of their translations. The word here in Hebrew is this word hevel, which means breath. And so it's literally like kind of like breath of breaths. But what you're getting at, I would say, is something like, it's ephemeral. If I were going to say, you know, what is the overarching motif of this book? What happens, and there's this phrase, under the sun, i.e. in mortality, and under the sun

it appears about 30 times, is it's a femoral, it will not last. I think the author's aware of this and says, you know, he did all these things, and they won't last. And so what I would take looking at this book in a positive light, especially in light of the epilogue, is keep your trust in the Lord. He is not. He's not. He's permanent. He's not fleeting, but this life is ephemeral.

You'll notice a number of times, for example, in 114, you're not about the vexation of spirit. You know, this is how the KGB rendering is done. Others render this as this word spirit, right, in Hebrew is Rewak, which can also be wind or breath or air. And so a lot of times actually rendered as everything is vanity, and they'll say this is like basically chasing the wind, right? You're not going to get it. It's transitory. So the book starts out with fleeting, fleeting, everything is fleeting.

Everything is fleeting. Wiven try. Things are ephemeral. Therefore, we'll talk about Rogan Chepchuk. Enjoy those things you can while here. Because you do not know how the end may come. In some ways, it will say, God's purpose are inscrutable. We can't ultimately fear why some things happen,

or they don't. So, enjoy your time while you're here. But I wouldn't take this to the form of like hedonism. We'll just, you know, eat drink and be married tomorrow, we die, right? You get in the book of Mormon. Enjoy your time here, because you do not know what tomorrow holds.

It will be short. And I think with the epilogue, I get frames that then will ultimately trust in God. Even if things don't work out in here, keep your trust in God. Tadat back to Proverbs. So it's chapter one, basically life goes by day after day, goes by what prophet hath a man of all his labor, which he'd takeeth unto the sun, it's all fleeting.

I think human beings have felt this before. Why am I on this planet? So what's next, Lincoln, after chapter one, is life is fleeting. I think in 3-11, it's kind of just around the sunset. The scene never gets full, the rivers pour into that. And so I think it's pointing out that it's hard to discern. We kind of like a linear goal oriented thing, right? Going back again to Deuteronomy 11.

You'll be blessed if you do this. You'll be cursed if you do this. I think it's saying that you sometimes look at things and it's not altogether clear why it is the way it is. And from our perspective, we may not be able to see any pattern in us. As you go down to 11, I think it's interesting. There is no remembrance of former things. Neither shall there be any remembers of things that are to come with those that shall come

after. What you do is fleeting. Everyone forgets. It's forgotten. And this way, I like, you know, we'll talk about, you know, remember things or keep records. So he's noticing that once someone dies, they're forgotten.

They are eventually forgotten. It's emptiness, it's vanity or futility. And so picking up on that, and then you can autobiographical section from early 12 to 18, I, the preacher was King king over Israel and Jerusalem. That's interesting. It doesn't actually call himself Solomon. He says in the past tense, I was the king. And so it kind of wonders, tradition doesn't put this to Solomon, but who he says,

look, I went and I sought after wisdom in all kinds of ways. He goes, he seeks after wisdom when he was the king. And talked to all of his like vexing spirits and sometimes it was like chasing after wind. I could never grasp it. And you get down to 17. He said, I gave my heart to no wisdom and to no madness. Here, I think we might say even revelry might be a good translation here. And Folly, I perceive that this is also a vexation center like chasing wind. For much wisdom is much grief, and he that increases knowledge, increases sorrow, which I think is, again, an interesting concept. It's going to take some work to get wisdom, but also you're going to get grief in this process. The wisdom is hard earned, but just think of this mortality. Right? I think about God says, yeah, go to earth,

have this mortal experience. You're going to learn a lot. You can't allow wisdom. But yeah, it's going to be a lot of grief. It's going to be hard. We're going to get joy. You'll get a lot of joy, but it's going to be a hard process. I think he's he's saying this in life. You'll grow, but it's hard. More wisdom isn't all just a wonderful thing. It'll come with pain and suffering and at a cost. Interesting. So wisdom, is he saying that wisdom comes with grief in that in grief, I became wise? Yeah. I think about this was kind of grief or sorrow, I think of Moses 5.11, right? With Eve. Or it says, you know, Eve is wife, heard all these things and was glad saying, we're

not for our transgression. We never should have had seed, and there should have known good and evil. And the joy of our redemption eternal life, which God give us unto all the obedient. Yeah, I think acquisition comes to the cost. It's similar to Hebrews 5, though he was a son yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered. So grief and wisdom come together. I don't like that. So I like your second Nephi two reference Lincoln because there's opposition and all things, but it's part of the learning process. And so we have the Adam fell that men might be men are, that they might have joy and we love that verse, but there's also Moses 648 days, where it says, and he said unto them, because that Adam fell, we are.

And by his fall came misery. And he said unto them, because that Adam fell, we are. And by his fall came death and we are made partakers of misery and woe. So it's some days, there's joy days and there's misery and woe days. And that's the learning, that's the laboratory of opposition and all things, right? Much wisdom comes with much grief. Hmm. I can see why this, there's a bit of a pessimistic attitude here.

Yes. To really have wisdom and know, you experience both. That's a really good point to bring up. We have a life of total ease and comfort. It sounds appealing, but we might not learn much. It won't stretch our souls very much. Yeah. I remember I think it was brother Truman Madsen that said when you truly come to love someone, you've doubled your capacity for pain. And I thought, oh, that's strange, but what he meant was, then you suffer their joys. I mean, you experience their joys with them, but you can also experience their sadness when they're sad.

And every parent knows that. My family were watching a video the other night, a church video called One-on-One. It was about this, this brother named Troy Russell who lost his son, really unfortunate accident, and how he was just pleading with the Lord one night to take away all of this pain. And he got this just really profound answer. The Lord kind of said, I could take away the pain, but I'd also have to take away the nine years you enjoyed with your son. Or you can have the nine

years you had with your son, but you'll also have the pain. And he made the comment this brother that he would prefer to keep that all, which was just kind of amazing to watch. Really one of those really super sobering things, but how wonderful to have an eternal perspective of the whole thing. And I guess that's kind of what we're talking about today in these books. Yeah, Ecclesiastes one for in much wisdom is much grief. Oh, I can't tell you, I like that Lincoln. I can't tell you that I think that's a great way to go. But that's my favorite verse.

Oh man, yeah. Lincoln, this has been a fantastic day going through these two books. I think our listeners would be interested in your journey of education, Oxford graduate, right? All these different degrees and being a faithful, Latter-day Saint. What's that journey been like for you? It had ups and downs. I think it's staying on the path and looking forward, trusting in the Lord. For me, I kind of tied a little

of the clasiasis about having joy with what, where you're at. I kind of look at the last two chapters of kind of like seizing the day, carpe, a-d-m, right, living in the day, finding joy in that. I think for me is how I've done this and what's most meaningful, especially in light of what we've talked about, certainly in the clasiasastes with things that are ephemeral. A really defining event in my life took place as a young man when I was a senior in high school. Played a lot of sports, played at baseball, played on a rep team and up in Canada, made it to the tournament

that was basically the national championship tournament. In our first game, I was a center-fielder. We were playing about the second inning. There was a rain delay. There was some rain. We all ran back into the dugout. Rain ended right, ran back on the field, and I was warming up with the left field or throwing a baseball.

And out of the blue, there was just a large crack. And I was blown back, and I was kind of on my back. And I was like, what just happened? And I looked over, and the person I was playing catch with, who was a good friend of mine, had been struck by lightning was actually killed instantaneously when you sit by lightning. And I remember seeing total pandemonium break out

at the field, right? I saw this poor young man, his dad came out of the field was totally distraught and people were trying to help in front ambulance to come, you know, minutes seemed like hours. And in the aftermath, that whole event, right, you're a senior in high school, you do kind of feel immortal, right?

And you feel like, well, life's never gonna end. And coming back to Cluesy Astes, life is transitory. That's the one thing I think I learned at a young age where I thought, well, I'm kind of immortal, no, life will have an end. And it may be sooner than you think. And then some really, it was our circumstances.

And coming out of that whole circumstance, what comforted me the most of anything? If the one thing I held onto that helped me the most was the gospel. It's permanent. It's not trans, it's going to be there in really, really tough times. And so that was a really defining moment in my life. And of course, after that event, it was like, well, what's the most important thing I do? Well, I need to go serve a mission. Because I saw how that helped me and how friends on the team who didn't have a belief system really, really struggled.

That nice struggle too. You can't go through it, not struggle somewhat. But for me, I think how important the gospel was and the permanence of that. So that's kind of a defining moment in my life where I'm like, we don't know when the end's coming, but let me make the most of what I have while I'm here. In that moment, it's kind of in your sorrows,

your struggles, you really come to know God. And so for me, while some may be challenged with things they read or hear, for me that hasn't had the same effect on me, where I have questions, but my testimony has only grown. And yes, as it can used to grow, yes, I can have questions. I try to answer them, but just have really an abiding faith in the gospel.

This is permanent. It's something I can really rely on. I can trust in the Lord. I really, really can no matter what comes, you know, I can get through it. And so for me, that's kind of defined my life and helped me with what I've done and really my scholarship. And as I try to be disciple of Christ. And so when challenges come, I'm like, no, I'm going to stand fast and remain firm. And in fact, let me just, if we have time, let's share with one of their brief story. Last couple of years, yeah, I think everybody had right

the last few years with COVID sets them a really tough times. And personally, right, some real big challenges. And I remember where again, just knowing the Lord was there for me, I took my daughters out, we were going back to the Olympic Peninsula last July and driving out and just kind of going through a hard time. Again, valleys in life, there's hills, there's peaks, tough time. I just pulled over the car at this rest stop in the middle of nowhere in Oregon. Didn't have to use the restroom. I'd say, you know, girls, I take a break. Just kind of feeling overwhelmed. I said, girls, let's go get some, you know, candy, you know, at the vending machines. I'm just going to go and sit down over, you know, there's picnic tables there, things like that.

I remember walking to the picnic table, speaking like, God, I need some help. I really, really need some help. And I remember just kind of saying, I really need your help. And I remember getting there and sitting down at the picnic table and lo and behold, in the middle of nowhere, somebody left a copy of the Book of Mormon. So make sure he's left it there. And I said, okay, God, I got the message.

And I'm like, this can't be a coincidence that the middle of nowhere, I just stopped, and went out and lo and behold, there's a book of war. Oh, of course, I took it. I have it. And I really treasure that. And so for me, just knowing that even in really hard things, you can trust in God. So go back, you can really trust the commandments. You don't know where your journey's going to go at times. I look forward. Yeah, you move forward with faith.

I've had this experience where I know God's there, watch over and helping me. And from that really trumps anything else. Excellent. Wow, both of those experiences, those are, man. Thank you so much, Dr. Blumau Lincoln. This has been a wonderful day studying these two books with you, John. I've said it before, but I don't know how we got this job. It's a good job.

I know, it's just a great, those last stories, some things are permanent, summer transitory, and to have that book there, that it, here's your answer. That's beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you. We want to thank Dr. Lincoln Blumel for being with us today. We want to thank all of you for joining us. We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sonson and our sponsors. David and Verla Sonson, and we hope all of you will join us next week. We'll be back with another episode of Follow Him. you