Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Revelation 6-14 Part 2 • Dr. Christopher Blythe • Dec 11 - Dec 17

Episode Date: December 6, 2023

Dr. Christopher Blythe continues to unravel the mystery and meaning in Revelation 6-14 and encourage and excite listeners about living in the Last Days.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/new-testament-episodes-41-52/Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/follow-him-a-come-follow-me-podcast/id1545433056YouTube:  https://youtu.be/q8DjWGn1QNUInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/15G9TTz8yLp0dQyEcBQ8BY00:00 Part II–Dr. Christopher Blythe00:07 Heaven03:48 Architecture of the Nauvoo Temple08:07 Lucifer falls11:45 Review of woman and the symbolism12:53 “We Need an Endowment” by Anthony Sweat16:42 “The Point of No Return” by Dieter Uchtdorf20:49 The Number 666 or 61625:18 Moroni flying or standing29:36 Mark in the forehead32:47 Elder Holland and the victory has been posted34:11 Heavenly Father is in control35:01 Final thoughts 37:10 End of Part II– Dr. Christopher BlytheThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignAnnabelle Sorensen: Creative Project ManagerWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Welcome to part two with Dr. Christopher Blythe, Revelation chapter 6 through 14. John sees a vision now. It's again in heaven. It's a symbol, it's a series of symbols that have a meaning on earth. We can read this meaning. I'm just going to stick to the King James here. I'm going to tell you what it says in Joseph of translation. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pain to be delivered, and there appeared another wonder in heaven. We hold a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns upon his heads

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven and it cast them to the earth and the dragons did before the woman Which was ready to be delivered for to power her child as soon as it was born and she brought forth a man Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron and and her child was caught up on God and to his throne, and the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared of God that they should feed her there 1,200 and 3 score days. We know what Joseph says about these symbols, and that's really important,

but just the images that we're watching, here's a woman that's precious. She's a wonder in heaven. She's giving birth and a dragon wants to get her baby. If we don't read this just as symbols, this is the savior. If revelation is being told in verse Nephi, which I believe it is, being told in verse Nephi, which I believe it is, Nephi seeing parts of the same vision, here he sees the Virgin Mary. He sees the condescension of God. And I believe this is the parallel here. He's seeing an image of the Virgin Mary who, when the Savior is born, we have the slaughter of the innocence. People are trying to prevent him from coming to earth, but the Lord's gonna protect him.

And eventually, he's gonna be caught up unto God and to his throne. He doesn't get to rule yet, but he's gonna be caught up to his throne. There's a literal way to read this. This is a direct thing. You have the Virgin Mary, you have the Savior, and we have this conflict.

As Lottery Saints, Joseph tells us that this woman should be read as a symbol, at least when we're giving it, in its millennial fulfillment, this is a symbol of the church, and that the church is going to be in labor trying to bring forth a child, and that child is the kingdom of God. This is the great coming forth here. The kingdom is going to happen, but the woman has to finish her her thing. It's going to face persecution. We'll see here that as an early Latter-day Saint would read this, they would think of the woman fleeing into the wilderness after the Savior ascending to heaven as a symbol of the woman fleeing into the wilderness after the Savior ascending to heaven as a symbol of the apostasy. The woman is taken into the wilderness where there's a place and she waits

there a while because we're going to have an apostasy. I'm not certain on that interpretation, but this is how it was often read among early Latter-day Saints. She's gone somewhere else for a while. She's going to come back. Then we switch here. And I think maybe we should stop and go here. So early Latter-day Saints loved this passage. The Prophet Joseph loved it. Revelation 12 is really the only place in the book of Revelation

that the Joseph Smith translation offers us an extensive new reading of the text, which is important, but it also shows up in other things. Do you guys know about the architecture of the Navu temple and how it relates to this passage? Yeah, it's amazing. Isn't it amazing? We have this in one journal entry, but because it actually shows up in the architecture, it makes a lot of sense that this is what Joseph intended.

Joseph was hands on about the structure of the Navu temple just like Brigham Young, he said that it had been revealed to him, and Wondell Mace, one of the laborers on the temple, actually records what the architecture is intended to represent. He says the architecture of the temple was purely original and unlike anything in existence, being a representation of the church, the bride, the lamb's wife, and he refers to this passage in Revelation 12 and goes on. The Navout Temple beautifully shows this at the bottom of the structure. Remember, the woman is

standing on the moon. So the moon stone is at the bottom, not like in the Salt Lake Temple, but the bottom in the Navout Temple. And then there are pillars, and the pillars have a sun on top of them. So clove in the sun, and then the stars are on the very top. Specifically, you know, some people pointed out that the top of the Navout Temple has a crown structure. May as part in 12 stars are right there. Here is a symbol of the church and out of the church, the temple gives birth to the kingdom of God. All of these are temple symbols. The temple is what's going to bring forth the millennium on earth. Is Joseph or the father's message through the building of the Navu temple. It's powerful. This is a really powerful idea.

So much more in Navu is begins to be a conversation about how to bring together the millennium. We are fortunate that the Joseph Smith papers that has brought more of these documents to life. But one of the things that's occurring in Navu is Joseph builds up a group, the Council of 50, which he calls the Kingdom of God. The church just five years ago about released a set of hundreds of pages of documents and conversations between Joseph and this group of 50 men who are asked to imagine what the millennial government will look like. Joseph is so eager to help bring this about. The reason I'm bringing it up, it's kind of fun, is that there's a debate over what the flag of this kingdom should look like.

People give a variety of different ideas. Bergen Young is going to actually tell us the flag of the kingdom God should have the American flag and then every nation that joins Should be added to it in a small square and we're just gonna this ginormous flag But one person and the council of 50 wanted a flag that was this woman in the wilderness It was the symbol of the kingdom of God. It's actually the symbol of the church But it's what's gonna bring the kingdom of God the same way with the 12 stars around her head and the moon at her feet and the sun through her. So this symbol is really important and is the symbol of the coming of the millennium. Now, as John's having these revelations, he moves back. He just saw the woman who he would recognize as Mary symbolically, and then a dragon attacker.

In verse seven it picks up again here. These are very important verses. If we had an Old Testament scholar with us, they might point out that the figure of Satan, the Satan, Lucifer, the fallen angel, doesn't appear clearly in the Old Testament. Now, we, of course, read Isaiah 14 to be a comment about Lucifer, and I think that's true. But from a secular point of view, people argue that you just can't find that story there. Well, even if it wasn't, it's revealed right here in the sacred writ. In verse 7, And there was war in heaven.

Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon fought in his angels, and prevailed not, neither was their place found anymore in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out that old serpent called the devil in Satan, which deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him. Here is the moment where we saw this moment with first part of the vision. We see the Savior what he went through. The Savior ascended to heaven his resurrection. We saw an apostasy

sort of narrative. And now we're jumping back to see what happened in the pre-existence, where Lucifer falls and he's gonna deceive the whole world. We know that Joseph has a vision of this exact scene in section 76 where he sees Lucifer fall, an angel in authority, a similar thing, of course, that the prophet Lehigh has in second Nephi too, seeing this moment. But Joseph describes it and he sees a moment where, and while we were yet in the Spirit,

the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision, so to use the same language or revelation here, for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ. So we're seeing. Therefore, he make a thawar with the saints of God and encompass them round about. This is how Joseph describes it and John describes it as Satan deceiving the whole world. It's going to cool on here and talk about how that's seen. And remember, this is a parallel with First Nephi. So if you're thinking, where is this showing up

in First Nephi now, think the great and abominable church, all the things that are occurring there with the persecution of the saints, is that's what we're about to see, the great apostasy. And I heard a lot of voice saying in heaven, now is come salvation and strength in the kingdom of our God. And the power of his Christ for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they loved not their lives unto death. Therefore rejoice, he heavens, in me that dwell in them, woe to the inhabitants of the earth. And of the sea, for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he at the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea. For the devil has come down unto you having great wrath because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. There's that line. When you think of is the devil upping his tactics in the last days, this is that line there.

I mean, I think this might be the perspective just from the pre-existence in general. He know that he only has a short time. He's going to do what he can, but Heavenly Father is a plan. And when the dragon saw that he was cast into the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the manchild, the church, he persecutes. And so the woman were given two wings of a great eagle that she made fly into the wilderness into her place where she was nourished for a time. And the serpent cast out was not the water as a flood after the woman that he may cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman and the

earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the flood, which was the dragon cast of its mouth. I love this. Here is an image of the persecution of the devil and the seucotaster, everything, right? When things were going to be bad, the flood's coming and the Lord had a plan. The earth opens its mouth and takes in the flood and the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed which keeps the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus. Chapter 12, I think chapter 6 meant a lot to Joseph, but we know chapter 12 did too. He's thinking about this passage, and I think it gives him a lot of hope. This is the message of what is the mission of the restoration. It's to bring forth the kingdom of God on earth to recognize that yeah, there's going to be persecution. God's got a plan. He's in control of this the whole way, and our job is to keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This is a great lens to put on chapter 12 because this is how the prophet Joseph Smith saw this chapter. Let me see if I caught you right here that this woman represents the church and you talked about the Naboo temple and there it is with the sun is right in the middle of that temple, those big beautiful sunstones, maybe a little bit further than halfway up. And the moonstones are at the bottom. And then the stars are actually above the sunstones, and they go around the rim of that novu temple.

So here she is, a woman clothed with the sun in the middle, the moon at the bottom, and the stars at the top, where I might look at the novu temple and say, oh, that's the sea-lost-jokingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, the T-Lashro kingdom. That's not what Joseph was talking about. He was talking about this woman in Revelation 121. And the church is trying to give birth or build Zion. This child is Zion, trying to build Zion on the earth and Satan wants to stop that.

Could I say in the temple, the covenants I make in the temple are, you can pick up on this language there to build the kingdom of God. Build Zion. To build. Zion. There I am inside that temple, which is represented here in chapter 12 verse 1, this woman that's trying to build Zion. I want to quote here from our friend Anthony Sweat. This is a BYU devotional called We Need an Endowment. And he says, the temple teaches us at its highest pinnacle covenant to consecrate our entire lives to God, dedicating and making holy our time, talents, and means to do his will and build his kingdom. It teaches us to love and serve others, offering of our abundance to help those in need. He says, there is power in consecrating our lives in service

of God and his children that enables us to find our personal path and purpose. What a fascinating tie-in that I can reach, chapter 12 verse 1, see the temple. I think the Salt Lake Temple has the similar symbols of the moon, stars and sun. It's a different order. Joshua Matz and explain this to me the other day, actually, where he said, this is set up for the Book of Abraham, a different symbolic structure. So our temples are amazing

that they give us different messages in different places. But the Navu temple, that's here in Revelation 12. Yes. There I am in the temple, concentrating to build Zion, and I should see that there is a dragon who wants to destroy Zion and me, apparently, because he is Roth with the woman, the church in verse 17, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, those who keep the commandments of God and have a testimony of Jesus. So I can see myself in Revelation 12. Absolutely. You're part of this. I mean, we're a precursor to it, but we come out of the temple a royal priesthood. We come out kings and priests.

This is the message of the millennium. The temple is how the revolution begins. And eventually it's gonna have this beautiful film of the coming of the Savior, but we're definitely part of these passages. Oh, that's a great way to view this. Again, I don't know how the first century saints would have viewed this, but I love that lens.

I'm impressed by this nickname for Satan or this description, the accuser of our brother, who was just in my class the other day, we were talking about how Satan just doesn't play fair, because they'll tempt you to do something, do this everyone does it and nobody cares and no one will know and then as soon as You do it. He's oh, how could you possibly have done that you terrible and he becomes that accuser and I wrote in my margin We can follow our advocate or our accuser because he doesn't play fair Tempts you to do it and then ites you. What an interesting name for him. Why would anyone want to follow somebody who accuses them? Then in verse 11, we often talk about the war in heaven, referenced in verse 7.

I like to ask my students, did we have spiritual F-16s? Because in F-16 is a beautiful thing, but what were our weapons? Verse 11 tells us more than nature of this war. And F-16 is a beautiful thing, but what were our weapons? Verse 11 tells us more than nature of this war. They overcame by the blood of the Lamb. Was the atonement active in premortal existence? And the book Mormon speaks about the atonement

which was prepared from the foundation of the world. So yes, it was. And by the word of their testimony. Perhaps our weapons were the blood of the Lamb and the word of our test, it was. And by the word of their testimony, perhaps our weapons were the blood of the lamb, and the word of our test, it was the atonement and our testimonies. It's powerful. I think that's right. So, y'all, that's a fascinating idea, the accuser. That could be our culture today as well. I'm going to find things, I'm going to accuse other people. Let me quote from President Oogdorf. this was a talk called the point of no return in

April of 2007. And he said, the Scriptures call him the accuser because he wants us to feel that we are beyond forgiveness. Like I said, Tempts should have sinned and then tells you how awful you are when you do exactly what he said. He's an accuser. The opening paragraph of the Come Follow Me manual mentions this chapter, chapter 12. It says, Imagine a woman, Travailing in birth and pain to be delivered.

Now imagine a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns hovering over the woman poised to devour her child as soon as it was born. To understand these verses of John's revelation, remember that these images represent the Church and Kingdom of God and the peril they would face. For the saints who experienced intense persecution in John's day, victory over evil may not have seemed likely. This victory can also be hard to foresee in the day like ours, when the adversary is at war with the saints and has power over all kindreds, tongues, and nations. That's from the next chapter, chapter 13.

But the end of John's Revelation gloriously shows that good will prevail over evil. Babylon will fall. And the saints will come out of great tribulation with robes of white, not because their robes were never stained, but because the saints will have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. What a great paragraph. Some up what we've talked about here in chapter 12. I like that a lot. The manual is very good for chapter 12 and for 14. I definitely think it is essential for our reading of these passages, very helpful resource. Chapter 13 is a highly symbolic chapter. If we're thinking about

Daniel and the coming of these corrupt kingdoms, this is a similar thing happening here in chapter 13. It's discussing a beast that's come forward. Now the beast is described in different ways in different revelations, but this represents corrupt government, corrupt apostate church, corrupt government. The beast has this power given to him where the dragon, meaning the devil, is what do we call this in 1 Nephi? This is the great and abominable church of the devil and described as a beast in this passage here. It is a representation of the great apostasy. Many conservative Christians are waiting for a last day's tyrant. Certainly, that's very possible.

When it discusses this beast and 14, he deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles, which he had power to do in the sight of the beast. This is a false prophet that comes the messenger of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast that the image of the beast should both speak and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he caused all those small and great rich and poor free and bond to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads. And that no man might buy or sell say he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the wisdom of his name. Here is wisdom let him that have understanding count the number of the beast for it is the number of a man and his number is six hundred three score and six. I remember a little kid reading this and actually heard a rock band have the foot within their song and thinking this is the scariest thing I've ever read in my life. Beginning in the middle ages, this begins to be read as a son of the devil born, a literal anti-Christ figure that appears on the earth and will lead the earth and then Jesus has to fight him.

There's nothing in here that suggests anything like that popular culture idea. Is this the son of the devil? No, there's nothing here that comments on that. This is a tyrant that's apparently in this, causes the world to wander off them, has great mysteries. And then he's given this weird number, 666. This is where biblical studies can really help us. I remember Richard Draper, the first person that gave this insight that readjusted the way I was thinking about this passage. And he said, 666 or in some manuscript, 616 is a reference to the Emperor Nero who persecuted the saints. So either literally a reference to that historic moment in time,

or a reference to just like how these two prophets will be like Moses and Michael Issa, they'll be this figure in the last days that's like Nero. The key thing for us, and particularly if we're going to focus on how the restoration is interpreted this passage, this is Adonifi, this is the Great and. This is out of Nephi. This is the great and abominable Church of the Devil. What is the number 666? I think probably our biblical study scholars are right, but when early apostles tried to interpret this, they recognized it was the

apostasy. They thought the beast was the apostate Christian church. And the 666 number is a reference to apostate branches of Christianity which was saying there's 666 of them. Now that's probably not a correct interpretation, but understanding that this was both then and now by the church understood not as a concern that we're waiting for an antichrist. That's never been on our vision. But that the apostasy occurred, it was a real thing and that the Lord is going to fix that. And he's going to fix it in chapter 14. Chapter 14, we immediately have an image of Mount Zion. Great. Think Malachi here, right? The saviors are Mount Zion. and I looked in low a lambs stood on Mount Zion and with him 144,000, having his father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven as the

voice of many waters, the saviors voices described as many waters in chapter one. And as the voice of a great thunder, and I heard the voice of Harper's harping with their harps, and they sung as it were a new song before the throne. Look up that new song, if you're interested. The revelation gives us some comments on that too. And before the four beasts and the elders, and no man could learn that song but the 144,000, which were redeemed from the earth. It describes that they're not the files with women, so these are people that keep their

chastity covenant. They're redeemed among men. They're the first fruits of the lamb. And in their mouth, there's no guile. They're without fault before the throne of God. All this is being talked about here. And then we have a reference in verse six. And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach it unto them that well on the earth and to every nation and kindred and tongue and people. This is that beautiful reference to the restoration in the last days. We've had a lot of references to apostasy and now we have the great restoring angel mentioned here. There's a debate sometimes among even church scholars on whether this passage refers to Moroni or if this is

something that we've come up with over time, did Joseph really think this? Joseph really thinks this. In section 133 he refers to this verse here and he says the angel has flown through the midst of heaven. It's a past tense. The angel has come and restored. And he uses that same language of ever-last and gospel. It only appears here in his discussions of Revelation and in reference to the angel Moroni. He associates this verse with that great angel who was prepared, who John may have known very little about as he wrote these verses, but that we know something about because of the restoration, as he was prepared to play this role to get the everlasting gospel started again. And through what means, what's the great resource that God is fighting

the apostasy? If you refers to Nephire or this, it's through the Book of Mormon. Great witness of that everlasting gospel found in the Book of Mormon. That is how God is going to combat that beast and the previous chapter. I'd love that. Speaking of the Navu temple, what was the original Maroni on the Navu temple? Was he standing or was he flying? He's flying. Yeah, he was a weathervane and if you look at the Washington DC temple The design the sculpture of the Maroni there on the Salt Lake Temple a trumpet in one hand

Nothing in his left hand, but in the Washington DC temple a trumpet and the plates in his left hand. But in Washington, D.C. Temple, Trumpet and the plates in the left hand. I always think of that when I see this first having the everlasting gospel. And that's, you know, footnote 6c, it says, Book of Mormon. You're saying, that's how Joseph saw that. That was Mironi. Absolutely. Section 133 and the way he describes Mironi coming in the prograte price, both has illusions to the same passage. This isn't something that we've come up later on as sort of a folklore tidbit. This is something that Joseph believed. It's a beautiful thing. When you read the book of Revelation and you think of Maroni being this angel here and John being the ascending angel, the 104,000 who are in heaven being prepared. It really does

remind us that we're going to do these hard things here, but this is Heavenly Father, he's got his hand in it the whole way. He's really making sure, I mean, this is the coming for the kingdom, this is what we're waiting for. I love what John said and remember the Lord's prayer here, like kingdom come. The Lord has paved the way to bring about his kingdom and he's using figures, in this case, both the last book of the book of Mormon, our prophet there, is being called in as one of these great angels in the last book of the Bible, is being called in to play their role. And that's what the Book of Revelation is. It is a book of hope. Even if we came forward and we read about Babylon falling,

all of this is pointing us to these great things. Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying and to me, this is after the Millennium started here, right, blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth. Ye say at the Spirit that they may rest from their labors and their do works to follow them.

And then we have it. And I looked and behold a white cloud, upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of Man. Think Daniel 7, this is one like unto the Son of Man comes on a cloud, having on his head a golden crown in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, thrust in the sickle and reap, for the time has come for thee to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe, and he that sat in the cloud, thrust in his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. And another angel came out of the temple, which is in heaven, he also had a sharp sickle. Goes down, verse 19, and the angel thrust in his sickle to the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth and cast

into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and the blood came out of the white press. We're gonna leave it with a really, really disturbing verse there. But the actual message here is that the savior appears. He comes and the judgment comes forth. The patience of the saints were waiting for this moment. The main point is that the system of government and religion and

cruelty that's been allowed to spread on the earth that we saw in chapter 13 is going to be no more. Babylon, that great symbol is fallen, is fallen. We see right after the reference to the Anger-Moran-A-Ret before. This is a message of great hope and great peace. We're part of this story. We are through the temple and we are waiting for that final moment. To what Nick told you guys before about the problems of extremism or misinterpretation is really important. We talked about how we could look forward to the suffering other people. But I don't think we should lose track of who we are. We're members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

This is our hope. This is our message. Christ, what would I be right in saying in chapter 13 and 14 that I've got evil versus good? As I look at this beast, even in verse 4, the people around it are saying, they worship the beast. Who is like unto the beast? Who could even try to defeat the beast? He's making war with the saints in verse 7. Found verse 11 interesting, he tries to look like a lamb, or maybe John is describing it this way, he had to look like a lamb, or maybe John is describing it this way, he had two horns like a lamb, but he spake like a dragon.

Maybe this deception, because the Savior has been the lamb throughout this book, and here the beast is trying to be a counterfeit lamb. Verse 14, he deceives them that dwell on the earth, and he's marking people. And then chapter 14 is almost the exact opposite. Here's another mark that's happening, chapter 14, verse 1. It's a different mark. They have the fathers name in their forehead. So there's almost like two marks. You can have the mark of the beast or you can have the mark of the father. And you've got this list of what it's like to have the mark of the father. And then the end of 14 is this showdown

between good and evil. The sickle is coming to, you gotta make the choice. Did I read that correctly? Yes. This figure traditionally people have called the antichrist, this last tyrant. He's a scholar, even we probably when we teach these verses in our classes, probably say,

the anti-Christ is not a scriptural term. This is a term used like it is in the Book of Mormon as a figure that's against Christ and can be any number of people. But this is a false Christ figure, isn't it? The way is described exactly as you suggest here. He looks like a lamb, but speaks as the dragon. He's deceiving us. Pretty scary.

And then who is like unto the beast? He's who you want to be. He's the one that your worship it should be turned towards to. No one can defeat this beast. I was listening to brother Jeffrey Marsh talk about this idea of a counterfeit. Lincoln Revelation 1311,

I beheld another beast coming out of the earth and he had two horns like a lamb. Well, I don't know about you, but every lamb I've ever seen does not have two horns. And he was saying, maybe this is trying to look like the real lamb, but he's a counterfeit. Maybe that kind of plays into the same idea right here of a false Messiah being coming forth.

It is just for fun because we're talking about. I think 13 is really so interesting on his ability to deceive so that he make a fire come down from heaven. And this reminds us of the Elijah scene. They can't bring fire down from heaven, but this guy is a real deceiver. He can bring fire from heaven.

John is making, his clothing him in language It makes him seem unstoppable done on purpose chapter 13. He's an unstoppable beast and yet Chapter 14 verse one Here's this unstoppable beast and then here's the lamb a lamb stood on the mountain Zion I just love the imagery. Here's this unstoppable beast. Who's going to stop him? The lamb. Hank, what you just said reminds me of this idea that the history of the world has already been written. That Nephysaw, the brother of Jared saw it, Moses saw prophets of Cena, and here's John is seeing it right up to the end and gives us hope. There's a statement that Elder Holland made, which I just love this. I love the imagery of it.

He said, the future of this world has long been declared. The final outcome between good and evil is already known. There's absolutely no question as to who wins because the victory has already been posted on the scoreboard. The only really strange thing in all of this is that we are still down here on the field trying to decide which teams Jersey we want to wear. It shouldn't be a hard decision if the scores already on the scoreboard. I heard a Christian comedian once and he was joking about people that are devil worshipers. And he said, well, where would they learn about the devil? He said, well, they'd learn about it from the Bible. Well, did they read how it ends?

Which is what we've just done here. We know that there's an ultimate triumph. Yeah, let's decide which team's jersey we want to wear. Yeah. I really like that. Here comes the final battle. It reminds me of CS Lewis saying the second coming was not a time of choosing. It's a time you find out what you have chosen. You have already done your choosing long before the Savior comes. Wow, that's good. Chris, this has been fantastic.

Going through these chapters with you and looking through the lens of the restoration and hearing how Joseph saw these chapters and others. This has just been eye opening and a lot of fun. Let's say I've been listening on my commute tour. I've been folding laundry or how mo in the lawn might be a little cold for that, I guess. You know, I said, hey, I listen to the follow-in podcast. Here's what I learned. Yeah, that's such an important question.

I hope people walk away with the sense that the Book of Revelation, it has some scenes. They're a little dark, but this isn't a hopeless book. This isn't a scary book. This is a book about how Heavenly Father is in control. And really, when we recognize how the Prophet Joseph used it, this is a message of the restoration. This is about the temple. This is about how you and I can participate in the kingdom of God, even before it. It's about to unroll. It hasn't come yet, but we're already blessed to be able to participate in it right now. Fantastic. And we can take part, even right now. I can take part. I can get myself to the temple. I can get myself doing the work of the Lord in my very own home.

myself doing the work of the Lord in my very own home. That is right. You can be like these 104,000, and Savior's on Mount Zion in chapter 14, and we are ready or commissioned and called to play that part. We get to be part of the winding up scene. That's another thing I love about these visions. When Moses saw it, it said, he beheld all the inhabitants of the earth. That means he saw us. That's just fascinating to think about as a huge huge family of God. We get to be part of that. Wonderful. Chris, thank you for being with us. We've just enjoyed our time with you. And yes, I've got to start following angels and serstones and I'm going to enjoy that to hearing from you again. Chris. Thank you. Oh, thanks, Sean. I'm going to enjoy that hearing from you again, Chris. Thank you.

Oh, thanks, Sean. Yeah. We want to thank Dr. Christopher Blife for being with us today. What a treat. It's been really fun. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Swartzen, our sponsors, David and Verla Swartzen. And we always, every episode, remember our founder, Steve Swartzen.

We hope you'll join us next week. We're talking Christmas on Follow Him. Today's transcripts, show notes and additional references are available on our website, follow him.co. That's follow him.co. You can watch the podcast on YouTube with additional videos on our Facebook and Instagram accounts. All of this is absolutely free and we'd love for you to share with your family and friends. We'd like to reach more of those who are searching for help with their Come Follow Me study. If you could subscribe to, rate, review, and comment on the podcast, that will make us easier to find. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Nielsen, Will Stoked

and Crystal Roberts, Arielle Kuadra, and Annabelle Swanson. you