Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Ruth ; Samuel 1-3 -- Part 2 : Dr. Gaye Strathearn

Episode Date: June 5, 2022

Dr. Strathearn returns and discusses Hannah’s faithfulness in the face of trials, and Samuel’s experiences learning to hear the voice of the Lord.Please rate and review the podcast!Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/old-testament/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive ProducersDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing & SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Rough Video EditorAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsKrystal Roberts: French TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-piano

Welcome to Part 2 of this week's podcast. Okay, let's transition over to the book of First Samuel. I read this in the Church's Come Follow Me manual. We've talked about Ruth and Naomi, but it says also, can you see yourself in the story of Hannah? Maybe, like Hannah, you long for blessings you have not yet received. Ponder what messages you can learn from the example of this faithful woman. I'm excited to talk about Hannah with you, Gay, and to share about her.

So as I mentioned earlier, right, we've got two books here who are starting with very ordinary women, but who are in distress because of their barrenness. With Naomi it was because her children had been taken from her but with Hannah it was because she hadn't been able to conceive and bear any children. There are plenty of women who experience this today and as an outsider you can think you've got a husband,

you've got or whatever. But this is a reminder of the very, very real and very, very deep, emotional burden that infertility can have on a woman. And especially in the ancient world where men had more wives. They could get their children in other means, but for a woman not to have children, was absolutely devastating. I think of Rachel in Genesis 31 when she's the depth of her cry out to Jacob when she says, give me children or else I die. Again, you've got to feel what those words are and what it means for somebody to be in this kind of position, because marriage and children was what gave women their sense of status and worth in the ancient world, right?

And so even though you've got someone here with Hannah who is married and she has a husband, and that's good, but even that doesn't compensate for the loss of not having a child. So what I'm really interested in here is why does it why start with this story? I think there is so much more going on than just saying oh God bless us her so that she can have Samuel and then we can get into the important stuff. Right? These these first three chapters are really very cleverly, powerfully put together that like in the book of Ruth here, there's lots of things going on that caught up in this experience of Hannah. Gait, I've noticed probably more this year than any other in the Old Testament.

Moms come up over and over again. They don't even want to tell you about someone without telling you about their mother so far, with Isaac and with Jacob, and then even Moses' mother is highlighted. Is that a cultural thing? Is that a, we're a family? If I'm an Israelite reader, am I thinking it always starts with a mother? Well, I think so, because this is important, especially later in Judaism, it's the mother who is going to be the connection to Judaism. And it's probably has very practical reasons.

You can tell pretty clearly who the mother is. It's sometimes more difficult to know the father situation. Not only was Abrams' name changed to Abraham. Sir Isaac's name was changed to Sarah. I want to remember that when I talk about the Abrahamic covenant that it was Abraham and Sarah that made that all possible. I just have never seen that often before they introduce someone, they tell us about the person's mother.

Let's set the scene here in chapter one. We're introduced to a man by the name of Alkanah and he is married to Hannah. Some scholars are going to argue that Hannah was the first wife. So the primary wife, probably because of her Baroness, he marries again in similar to Sarah and Hagar so that Alkanah can have children. This family lives in Rama, which is a ways away from Shiloh. That's the other place that we need to know about. Shiloh is the place of the tabernacle. So when Israel first conquered the land of Canaan, there was no Jerusalem originally,

but Shiloh in the land of Samaria was set up as the place of the tabernacle. That's where the temple was from, that's where the priests were and things like that. Elkana, we learn, is going to go up every year. He's going to leave Rama and go on pilgrimage and is going to go to the temple there. And in verse 5, we learn that Elkana loved Hannah, but that she was Baron. The Lord had shut up her womb. Notice again, we've talked about the competition between women in the biblical text, verse 6, and her adversary, and we're talking here now about penna-naya, also provoked Hannah

soar for to make her fret because the Lord had shut up her womb. So this seems to be something like in Hagar. You might be the primary wife, but I've got the kids and I'm going to rub that in when I can. That's an important part of the story in helping us to understand what Hannah is experiencing through this process. And if you go to verse seven, and as he, Alkanah, did year by year, Hannah went up to the house of the Lord.

So pen and I are provoked her, therefore she wept and did not eat. So this situation is tough for Hannah to be in. And how does Alkanah respond to this? And I can understand him doing this saying, am I not better to the even 10 sons? And I can understand what he's trying to comfort her. I'm just not sure how comforting that might have been. I know. I look at that and I think my wife would go, let me get back to you on that.

Okay, you just really summarized my life there. I get what you're trying to do, but it's really not that helpful. And then this kind of experience, this home life experience and the anxiety that kind of comes from that is going to be accelerate or intensified when she goes up to the temple and we're introduced to Eli, who is the priest. So verse 9, now Eli the priest sat upon the seat by a post of the temple of the Lord. And she Hannah was in bitterness. That's that word that we talked about with Naomi, Ma, Ma, right? Bitter the same word. She was in bitters of soul and prayed unto the Lord and wept saw. And she vowed a vowed, a Lord of hosts.

If thou will indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, servant, and remember me and not forget thine handmaid, but will give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the Lord all of the days of his life and there shall be no razor come upon his head. So what she's doing here is saying, I think that this is kind of really interesting because she desperately wants a son, but it seems to me she doesn't want the son for herself. I don't think she wants the sun necessarily for the status of it, but she wants to contribute to the work of the Lord.

And she sees the bearing of the sun as one way that she can be a part of this great work of God on earth. And I just think that that's really, really important. We could read this in terms of a selfish nose, but Saint Lord, I want a son, not so that I can say to pen an eye and na na na na na na na na, back to her, but so that I can find a way to serve the. But what's interesting, the contrast here, and we're gonna see this contrast going throughout these chapters, is that Eli is the priest. He's supposed to be the righteous one. He's the one who represents God.

There shall be no razor come upon his head. Hannah is saying is that she is going to offer her son as part of a Nazarite vow. So a Nazarite vow was a way for a non-priest to dedicate themselves to God for a period of time. Sometimes it's a lifetime thing, but it can be for shorter times, where they dedicate their work to God, the aim that, therefore, that period of the vow that they can become holy. And the word here is kadoosh, which is the only way that the holiness of God is described. So for a short period of time, they can become holy like God. And so that's kind of taking us back

to Leviticus where in chapter 11 and chapter 19, God is saying, so why am I giving you all of this law of Moses stuff? My aim is that you may become holy, Codosh, like I am holy, Codosh. Right? So all of those rules and regulations that we can sometimes get so caught up on, if we miss that aspect of it, then we've missed something really, really important. I like what you said here, Guy, that Hannah's not looking to get back at anyone, wrote it by verse 11, she wants to contribute to this work. It wasn't purely just a selfish desire. It was, I want to help. She didn't say, give me a son so I can. Stop all of these people mocking me.

Look at how Eli responds. Now this supposedly righteous person, verse 12, and it came to pass as she continued praying before the Lord, that Eli marked her mouth. So the word here means he watched. So she's praying silently, but she's mowling the words as she goes. And what's his interpretation?

Oh, this woman must be drunk. And so he kind of chastises her a little bit. How long will that be drunk and put away they whine from the? She's being chastised here unrighteously, but notice how she responds to a priesthood leader misjudging her. And Hannah answered and said, no, my Lord, I am a woman of sorrowful spirit. I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the Lord. Please don't count thine hand made for a daughter of Belial.

Now, I'm going to stop and emphasize that because it's going to come up later in the next chapter for out of abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken on this. So you're pouring out your soul at the temple and somebody comes and says, you know, I don't think you should be here, you're drunk and what. But she responds with this declaration of faith and her continued hope that, again, God has not forgotten her, but is aware of her needs and her heartaches and her feelings of bitterness or mara. Okay, this is so important.

How often are we going to be in a miserable situation and someone who should be helping us? Does something offensive? Miss judged. She could be done right now. Here's this religious leader who's supposed to be good to you and says something offensive, but seems like enough to go, you know what, I'm done with all these people.

People are gonna say offensive things, even pre-stud leaders. Let me tell you a story about me and my mom, that where I've learned this principle and it's had rippling effects on my life in very, very important ways. So I was in the eighth grade at high school and in Australia that's kind of the first year of high school. And something had happened at school that really upset me and I came home and I was in tears, right? I was sobbing.

And I walked in the door and mum knew that something was wrong with me and said, she came up, what's the matter? She took me into my room, we sat on the bed, she put her arm around me and I tried to explain to her what it was. I don't even remember what it is now. And she listened to me and consoled me for about, oh, I don't know, a minute and a half. I've got to know my mum. She's wonderful. And I love her. Then she just stopped and said to me, gay, that's enough, stop crying. And then she said this, you didn't come to this earth to live with perfect people. So get over it. And as I've thought about that over the years, I think what she might have been saying

is you ain't so perfect yourself, so don't expect it in other people until you're doing it. But it's this idea, I've loved this idea and I've treasured that idea. I expect other people to be perfect, but I want to be treated with mercy, right? Because I know I'm not perfect. But why can't we see that we're all in this journey together? And none of us are going to do things perfectly right. We're trying, but we make mistakes, and we've got to give people some grace, as we see them, because they do things

a little bit differently, or don't do things perfectly. In this case, for Eli, this is our first glimpse that perhaps all is not well with Eli as the spiritual leader of Israel at this point. Because he doesn't recognize the spiritual turmoil that Hannah was experiencing. We're going to find out later, he himself is struggling. That becomes an important part of these first three chapters. I really like Hannah's response here. We often talk about Perhorin's response to Moroni, but we should maybe bring up Hannah's response to Eli as often as we bring up that Book of Mormon story.

So in verse 19, she's been to the temple. They rose up in the morning and worshiped before the Lord and returned and came to the house of Rama. And Elkana, new Hannah, his wife, and the Lord remembered her. I think that that's really important. I think then if we kind of jump down to verse 22, but Hannah, Alkana is going to continue to go up to the temple, but Hannah goes not up, for she said unto her husband,

I will not go up until the child be weened, and then I will bring him that he may appear before the Lord and thereby forever. Now again I can't even imagine what Hannah is going through at this point. I wonder the text doesn't say it but I'd love when I get upstairs to track her down and ask her if she ever had second thoughts about this vow that she has made. I wonder if she's thinking with that child in her arms, how can I give him up? I have longed, I have waited so long, the Lord finally hears me.

Can I really send him off to Shiloh to a totally different city to be in the temple, where it seems that the people were aware that not all was well in the pre-stood at the temple. Maybe I should just keep him home. Maybe I should just keep him away from the wickedness that I hear about going on. Now, I'm presuming, right? None of this is in the text, but as I try to put myself in her shoes, I imagine that those were maybe some of the questions that I would be considering. And so when she says, yeah, I'm not going to go up the temple this year. Give me a little bit longer with him. I can understand maybe the tension that she's struggling with at this point.

But ultimately, ultimately, her vow is what wins through for her. Does anybody else even know she's made this vow? I don't know, because she said it in her heart. This displays her integrity even more so thinking, well, no one besides God knows about this vow, but she remembers, this is over in verse 27, for this child I prayed and the Lord

hath given me my petition, which I asked him, as long as he liveth, he shall be lent to the Lord. And the word lent is kind of interesting because the word can mean to lend as in I'm giving him to for a period of time. Honestly, this was going to be for his entire life, but it can also mean to consecrate him, to entrust him to the Lord. And there is some irony there that entrusting him to the Lord means entrusting him to Eli, and Eli isn't going to be the perfect role model,

but trusting in the Lord that in spite of the environment that it will ultimately be the best thing for Samuel. We talk about what this means in this time and place in culture. So she's basically saying, you now will be the one to raise him, not me anymore. She's taking him someplace, dropping him off. Is that what's happening? He's going to belong to the temple. He's going to be a servant of the temples.

And he will stay there, live there, be taught there from now on. He's going to come of age. And as we look at the first Samuel, we're going to see him not in the temple for the rest of his life, as he gets his prophetic call that we'll talk about.

But he is going to set up a judgment in Rama. So he's going to go to his hometown and people are going to come to him to get his insight and his judgment and those kind of things. But he will be there until at least he comes of age until the work of the Lord takes him elsewhere. I know this isn't intended in the text, but first Samuel 1, 28, he'll be lent to the Lord. I have a good neighbor.

He said, once sending a child on a mission, he said, I didn't know the private pain of sending a child on a mission. He said, it's been more painful than I thought it would be. John, you can speak to that. This idea of like, okay, there she goes off to Tahiti. Oh, and when you learned that they're having a bad week or a bad day, and you're not there, yeah, I hadn't heard it describe that way.

Private pain, but you pray for their companions, you pray for their mission presidents, you pray for their circumstances. I love chapter two, especially the early parts of this, because we're getting an insight into how Hannah feels. We've talked about how difficult this must have been, but chapter two opens up with her singing praises to God, and I love this. I think about Mary being told that she's going to be the mother of the son of God and all of the thinking about the cost that that involves, but then her magnificate where she praises God and I see Hannah doing something here.

And so I love this and so maybe we can read a little bit of it. Hannah prayed and said, my heart rejoices in the Lord. Mine horn, and this is an image for power that will come up again, My horn is exalted in the Lord. My mouth is enlarged over mine enemies because I rejoice in salvation. There is none holy, Codosh, as the Lord, for there is none beside him neither is there any rock like our God. Talk no more so exceedingly proudly. Let not arrogance come out of your mouth, for the Lord is a God of knowledge and by him actions are weighed. The boughs of the mighty men are broken, And they, that stumbled, are girded with strength. So notice we've kind of got these opposites going on. The people who are normally thought to be in power,

the ones that have meaning, but God is gonna turn things upside down and he's gonna pick someone like Hannah, who's a nowhere person, right, or Mary, from a nowhere, podunked place, and he's going to use people. The world doesn't recognize the strength than them, but God does, and he will use them in his work. They that are full have hired out themselves for bread, and they that were hungry ceased, so that the Baron hath born

seven, and she that hath many children is waxed feeble. The Lord killeth and makeeth alive. He bringeth down to the grave and he bringeth up. The Lord makeeth poor and makeeth rich. He bringeth low and he lifteth up. He raises up the poor out of the dust and he lifteth up the beggar from the Dung Hill. And so I love this in terms of she's talking about those people who are in the margins of society. World might not be aware of them, but God will and he will reach out and he will help them. And they will have a work to do and a part to play in this kingdom of God that he's establishing. And I think Hannah sees herself as part of those marginalized, but who God has reached out to and helped

shown that she can also be of use to God and his kingdom. Is this a song? Yes. Okay, you mentioned Mary and what we sometimes call the magnificot, my soldeth magnify the Lord and she just goes on and on, not about how great she is, but how great God is, and that's what Hannah is doing here, too. I think Nephi does it, too, and second Nephi fork. I know in whom I have trusted, and then he talks about how wonderful God is. And that's what I mentioned briefly before is at the end of Samuel, second Samuel, David is going to also offer up a Psalm, it is very much tied to this using some of the same motifs about God being the rock and all of that.

So this is kind of tying Hannah with David as well. So now we're going to get to the problems in Eli's house, is that right? Yes. So here we've got the contrast between a mother and her son, young son, and the priest and his children. I know. I'm looking at verse 12. I'm looking at Hannah saying in verse 16, Count Notbine handmade for a daughter of Belyal. How did you say it? Okay. I said Belyal, but I'm in Australia, and so I probably get it wrong. But then it says in verse Samuel 212, now the sons of Eli were sons of the Lail. Yes, and that again, Harkens to Eli

is that he can't see well spiritually. He's not perceptive. He's willing to kind of see Hannah as being worthless, good for nothing, that's what the word Belial means. Although in the Dead Sea Scrolls, it does become a term for Satan. But he can't see it in his own children. And so we're coming through this.

What is it that his children, what's the evidence that his children are going to be very, very different than the contrast to what we see with Samuel? Well, verses 12 through 16, the evidence of their unrighteousness and the fact that they are sons of Belial, is that they're taking the temple sacrifices and abusing them. Now in any temple sacrifice, part of the animal was offered up to God and so that becomes the burnt offering. Part of the animal was also given to the priests. That's how they survived and fed their families. But then the rest of the animal was to be

given back to the family who was offering the sacrifice. And that's how they eat meat. It's probably one of the few times they're eating meat. But the sons of Eli are abusing that and so that they're taking greater portionsortions of the meat. So therefore, they're taking it away from the people who are offering the sacrifice. So they're enriching themselves on the sacrifice of others. That's the first thing. And how do we see that? Judge verse 15, Wherefore, the sin of the young men was very great before the Lord. And then if we go to verse 22,

now Eli was very old and heard all that his sons did unto Israel and how they lay with the women that assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. So here's the second reason that they're not upstanding, doing what a priest should be doing and a Levite. And he said unto them, why do you do such things for I hear of your evil doings by all of this people? Name my sons for it is no good report that I hear. You make the Lord's people to transgress. So that's the second place where we see these things going in. But what happens? Verse 25,

they harken not unto the voice of their Father. And so this is setting up the events that are going to take place later on in 1 Samuel. Then if we jump down to verse 29, now we have a man of God is coming and he's also going to condemn Eli's sons and he says verse 29, Wherefore, kick ye at my sacrifice and at my offering, which I have commanded in my habitation. And Eli, you honorest your sons above me to make yourselves fat with the cheapest of all of the offerings of my people. Now, this is another example of this idea that all is not well, not just with his sons,

but with Eli. And I hope that we'll contrast that with Hannah, who's willing to, even though I think every fiber of her being is saying, keep my son and let me look after them, and who's going to honor God more than her personal desires, but contrast Eli, he honors thy sons above me as God. And so these are all kind of setting the theme for what I think happens Eli is told his sons are going to die, he's going to die, there's going to be some repercussions for this sinning in the temple. So that leads us up to chapter 3 and this for me is one of my favorite parts. I love the imagery

and what's going on here. As we see Samuel as a child coming into the temple and notice it's not just what happens but how the author chooses to portray this. I want you to kind of notice the light darkness theme. That's going to be a theme that comes up very much in the Gospel of John. Jesus is the light of the world, but notice the darkness that's happening as Samuel is serving with Eli. So I can imagine that some people listening and reading this and thinking about Eli, seeing his sons and their wickedness and feeling, I can't always control. Once these children become

of age, they use their agency and they make their choices, and there's not a whole lot that I can do as a parent, even if I try to, even as adults, try to teach them and work with them and those kind of things. I love this quote from President Hinckley, he gave it, it's an oldie, but I think it's a goodie in behold your little ones in 1978, in Sine. So he says, I recognize that there are parents who notwithstanding an outpouring of love

and a diligent and faithful effort to teach them, see their children grow in a contrary manner and weep while their wayward sons and daughters willfully pursue courses of tragic consequence. For such I have great sympathy. But such is the exception rather than the rule, nor does the exception justify others of us from making every effort in showing fourth love, example and correct precept in the rearing of those for whom God has given a sacred responsibility. And I think the issue here with Eli is that he becomes through his own choices, he becomes complicit in what his children are doing. And that's why I think the Lord's judgment is upon Eli as well as his sons. Maybe I'm seeing something that's not here, but I noticed that when Eli talks to his sons,

he's very concerned about what the people think. Why do you do such things? For I hear of your evil dealings by all this people, so it does seem that Eli, when you're saying he's complicit in this, isn't overly, maybe I shouldn't say he's an overly conservative thought that they're doing, but how it looks publicly,

and I notice as a parent, that's when I get into trouble, is when I'm more concerned with how my behavior, my children's behavior looks publicly on me, than actually what the real issue is, and the unfulfilled needs that they have in their life, perhaps, that's causing the behavior, whatever it is, when I'm more concerned about my reputation. I want to go back to verse 29, right, with the man come from God, that Eli honors his sons above God, whereas again, Hannah, it's the opposite here. So we've kind of got the contrast coming through here. I love chapter three and seeing the coming of age of Samuel, but I also love the way that the author is setting this up. It's not just what they say, but how they say it. It's

pointing a picture that I think is important for us to see. First one, and the child Samuel, ministered unto the Lord before Eli. Now, I want you to notice the recurrence of themes of light and darkness that are in this chapter. It's something that's really important in John's Gospel, and I hope that we're thinking about Jesus being the light of the world and that darkness is the absence of light. And the word of the Lord was precious at this time, and the word here means it's scarce, that God isn't talking to his people in those days, and there was no open vision. So the idea here is vision or revelation, but I hope that you're appreciating that in order for us to see

physically or spiritual, we need light to be able to see. And it came to pass at that time when Eli was laid down in his place and his eyes began to wax dim physically. He's not seeing as well as he used to do. So he could not see. But I think the author here is saying, yeah, he's got physical deficits with vision, but these are reflective of the much more important spiritual deficits that he has. And air the lamp of God went out in the temple of the Lord. So again, I want you to think, don't think in terms of modern ideas of your turn on a light, and the light is brilliant, and you can see everything, and there's no shadows.

I want you to imagine here this is a candle and candles convey light but it's a flickering kind of light, right? It does, it is still darkness there and it pierces the darkness but it doesn't get rid of the darkness. And so this idea of light in the temple, it's gone out, it's now night, so there's no light. In the temple of the Lord where the Ark of God was, and Samuel was laid down to sleep, right? Again, darkness. And the Lord called to Samuel, and I want to stop here and say, the name Samuel means

God hears. And I think Hannah did that because this child was because God hears. And I think Hannah said that because this child was because God hears. But in this chapter, we see Samuel as one who hears God, which I think is very, very important to see. So the Lord called to Samuel and he answered and said, here am I. And the word is Hinnany. This is just yes, but it also kind of in other places and scriptures has this sense of yes with an intenseness that I'm willing to listen to. I think if we think in terms of Moses,

where Jesus is going to say to God, behold here am I. Certainly when Isaiah is called to be a prophet of God, he uses this word hymnani. So this is this sense here that even as a young child Samuel is willing to listen, but he didn't understand, right? He hasn't had experiences with God yet. And Eli is the one who is charged to help him see and to hear and to recognize, which I think is some irony. So you know the story, he runs to Eli and said, here am I, for thou has called me. And Eli said, I didn't call you, go back to sleep. So okay, and he goes back to bed.

And the Lord called it again, Samuel and Samuel jumped up again and went to Eli and he says, here am I, you did call me and he said no, I didn't go back to bed. And Samuel did not yet know the Lord neither was the word of the Lord yet revealed to him. He's young, he's learning. And the Lord called a third time and he rose up and went to Eli and said, here am I. And now Eli, whose spiritual and physical dimness recognizes what's going on here. And so he is able to say to him, go lie down and it shall be if you call thee,

that thou shalt say, speak Lord, for thy servant heareth, so Samuel went and laid down in his place, and the Lord came and stood and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel, then Samuel answered, Speak, for thy servant, heareth. Now, it's not happenstance, right? That this is happening in the tabernacle, the place where when God comes to earth, he shakans, he dwells. It's not his permanent dwelling, he dwells in the temple in heaven, but when he comes to earth, he comes to the temple. And this is him, perhaps understanding that Samuel needs more than

Eli, even though Eli is going to play a part here, but he's coming directly to Samuel so that he can teach him as he goes on. And the Lord said to Samuel, behold, I will do a thing in Israel at which both the ears of everyone that heareth it shall tingle. In that day, I will perform against Eli. Now again, Samuel's young, but the Lord thinks he's mature enough to take this judgment that he's letting Samuel know about the judgment against Eli, all the things that I have spoken concerning his house when I begin, and I will also make an end. For I have told him that I will judge his house forever for the iniquity that which he knoweth. Because his sons made themselves vile and he restrained them not. So here's the second reason while this judgment is on Eli as well. And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli that the

iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering forever. And Samuel lay until it was morning, so light, and opened the doors of the house of the Lord. And you can imagine that Samuel was afraid to tell Eli this judgment. I wouldn't want to be doing it, especially a young child, but Eli wanted to know. And so he told him, and then we get verse 19, very similar to what Luke says about Jesus and Samuel grew and the Lord was with him and did let none of his words fall to the ground and all Israel for Dan even to bear chevver so their geographical terms to know that we're talking all of Israel not just tribes of Israel knew that Samuel was established to be a prophet of the Lord and that the Lord appeared again in Shiloh. I think that's just the Lord has returned to his temple not because of

Eli and his sons but because of this young child Samuel. Light has now returned to Israel. Temple is now functioning again because of Samuel. One of the things I love about Samuel is, even though there were prophets prior to Samuel in both 3 Nephi and also in Acts, they talk about the time of the prophets from Samuel. Samuel is identified as the beginning of the prophetic tradition in Israel. Yeah, because in the book of Judges, you didn't really see that. This type of person, but after this, we're going to see Elijah and Elijah and Isaiah and these prophetic figures. This is great, okay. I feel bad for Eli, should I? I absolutely we should. His response to Samuel is,

it is the Lord, let him do what Seymoth him good in verse 18. Is he saying, yes, I'm aware, I know. I'm glad it's okay to feel bad for Eli here, gay. Well, we have to, right? Because there are plenty times that the Lord is going to call us to account for the things that we haven't done as well. It's important that the Lord have boundaries.

I can hear someone reading this being uncomfortable with what Samuel is saying about Eli's house, but it's going to be between the Lord and Eli. Right. I think we feel bad for Lehigh. We feel bad for Nephi when I couldn't keep the family together when he's mad with his brothers. And as we've talked about there, Eli seems to be complicit to some degree. At the end of verse 13, he restrained them not was he not even trying. We don't know, but we all just have to try to take care of our own house and we're all

doing the best we can. I actually really like how complicated this is and messy and unclear. Because life is like that. Yeah, because as a parent, you're going, well, how do I restrain? I don't. Yeah. What am I supposed to do? Don't do that, guys.

That's between you and the Lord. You've got to go to him. Maybe it sounds like Eli didn't go to the Lord that he kind of looked the other way. Didn't ask the Lord or he was supposed to do. Who knows, that's complicated stuff, that's messy. I think the most important thing that I take again is the role that Hannah plays here in the bringing forth of someone like Samuel, who is placed in an environment which should have been much better than it is, but even so he's able to thrive. And I wonder how much of the faith of Hannah has been impacted, even though she only had Samuel for a few years. But how much of that mother's faith has impacted this young man

and helped him to be receptive. He certainly needed some help, but to be receptive to the things of God. And then spend his life in the service of his people and of his God. If we rush too quickly to Samuel, I think we miss something really, really powerful. There are plenty of women in the church who just don't see themselves in the Scriptures, but they should absolutely see themselves in Hannah and her faith and her determination to contribute. There's something there for anyone who would be a disciple to learn from Hannah and from her experiences as each one of us Try to deal with the things that life throws us as well So I love this story and I love the impact and how we see it played out in

The growing faith of this young prophet who brings God back to Israel. That's great. That is great. This has been just fantastic. I've got notes through the book of Ruth and through these first three chapters of Samuel that just changed these chapters for me forever. John, I'm sure you feel the same. Before we let you go, I think our listeners would be interested in your journey of becoming a Bible scholar and also a faithful, Latter-day saint. What's that journey been like for you? And also as a bit of an immigrant yourself. That's right.

Right. It's born in Australia and yet here have been in the U.S. for what? 30 years now. Yeah, it's been a while. Tell us that whole journey. Yeah, it's kind of an interesting journey even to me, right? Sometimes I have to pinch myself and say is this really? Is this really happening? So I think I've got to go back a ways to answer that. I grew up in a very very small

branch of the church in Australia, the place called Red Cliff and small branch of the church in Australia, a place called Red Cliff. And early on it was a dependent branch. My mother and grandmother had joined the church in 1958. When I mean small, I mean small. They provided a really important spiritual legacy to me. This was a time when you still had budgets, the church. I grew up with my mother and grandmother,

sewing and cooking all month to have a store so we could raise money so we could pay for renting the scout hall that we met in. You know, those kinds of things. When we built a chapel, my mother and grandmother were out there with picks and shuffles digging the trenches for, you know, that's what I have in my mind. But this small branch has some difficulties, but some real pluses. So one of them was, I had a friend when I was 11 who was given a missionary triple combination for their birthday. And we were really quite close. And so everything he did I wanted to do. And so I decided if he's got this missionary triple combination, I wanted one too. And I thought it was a righteous desire. So I went up to my mum and said, Mum, I want a triple

combination. And she said, no. And I was kind of a little bit, hang on, this is a good thing. And she said, we've got plenty of scriptures out there. You just go get one of them. Well, she didn't understand that I wasn't talking about anyone. I wanted missionary with thumbtabs and, you know, the really fine paper and all of those kind of things. And I kept asking her and she kept rejecting me. And so eventually I had to change my approach and I said, went up to her and I remember saying, okay, mum, so if I save this money for myself, can I get one? And then she said, yes. Now, in retrospect, looking back, my dad was out of work at that time for

an extended period of time and I'm sure that made things very very tight for her in a way that I wasn't aware of as a kid. But I remember the day I had to save up, I remember it was $12 that I eventually saved it up and I remember traveling to Brisbane about an hour away Mum took us so that I could go and buy this this scripture. And I brought it home and because I think it was really good that I had to pay for it myself because I treasureed it. I came home and I spent hours unsticking the pages and those kinds of things. And then one day I was at my sisters and I saw my brother-in-law's missionary scriptures and I thought, oh, I thumbed through them and I saw that he'd color coded everything. Yellow, mint, Godhead, red mint, restoration, purple mint, resurrection, all of these

kind of things. So I decided if I've got missionary scriptures, I should mark them like missionary scriptures. And this started me on a journey that I could never have understood, because I went through that triple combination and I marked everything that my brother-in-law had put there. And in the process I'm going, oh, that's a cool scripture. Oh, I was 11. I know I'm a little weird, I know that. But that was my beginning. So after I finished with my triple combination, I went to Mum and said, I want a Bible. Well, this time she didn't say no because she saw how invested I was in this. And so for Christmas that year, I got a Bible. And I went and did exactly the same things. And the scriptures opened up to me, even

as 11-year-old that I would never even considered. And that started me on this journey of just loving to read everything I could get about the church or the scriptures. I even tried to sign up when I was a little bit older for Hebrew classes, but they never carried. So that's one thing that was really important. The second thing this small branch that has been really helpful to me is because it was so small, when you graduated from primary,

you got your first calling. That's just the way that it happened. You get your, here's your certificate from primary, oh by the way, we're calling you to be the Junior Sunday School Corrister or something like that. And that wasn't anything because of me, it was just there was big needs. And so by the time I was 16, I was the junior Sunday school coordinator. And you know that you learn more when you're teaching than otherwise. When I was 17, I was called to be the gospel doctrine young adult teacher. Again, it's not because of me, but what I'm saying is all of these things put me in a place where I was learning and studying and things like that.

And it seemed for years, that's how it went. So I was never called in young women's until I came here and I was like 45, was my first calling to young women's but I was always teaching teaching institute I moved and I went up to as a small branches in Townsville and so I was called as the institute teacher. We only had three young adults there but that's what we did. I studied as a physical therapist and one of the things about Australian physical therapists is that they often take off and go backpacking around the world.

I went to one hospital in Townsville and everybody seems had just come back from that. And so every lunchtime they're talking about their experiences in India and all of these things. And at that time a friend of mine wrote to me and said, I'm thinking about backpacking, do you want to come? I thought, okay. And so we took off and we spent six months traveling, but the first place we wanted to go was Israel. I wanted to go to Israel. I wasn't experienced at that point, but we went there and so we had a, let's go Europe in one hand and a Bible in the other hand and let's see what we can find. And that changed forever the way I read Scripture because there is a holiness

of place and I felt that. And I never had a guide or anything like that. It was just with us with the Scriptures. Well, I had such a good experience there and then I came home and I was working in a new hospital and Elder Faust came to our state conference. He said just before he started his talk, he said, you know, the Jerusalem Center is about to open up. And he said specifically, this is not just for BYU students.

He says, any of your young women who want to go, you should go. And when he said that I had tingles all up and down my spine, and I girded up my loins and I actually went up and talked to him After I never do that. I never talk go up and talk to general authorities But I did to him and he said oh, okay, so you call this person da da da da da da and then within about three months I was at Jerusalem from Australia and this is when the Jerusalem Center was just opening up in

Australia, and this is when the Jerusalem Center was just opening up in 1987. And it wasn't the sites because I'd seen the sites, but I had teachers who knew the scriptures. Stephen Ricks was one of them, and he knew them inside and out, and I just used to sit there being so amazed at his knowledge, and how he is knowledge of language and culture and context. And I was just, oh, I was like this sitting under this waterfall. And it was just pouring on me. And I'm going, oh, I love it. But I can't take all of this in. That was such a life-changing experience that I came home, went on my mission, and then came back and thought, I want more of this. I came to BYU and got my second degree in Near Eastern Studies. And I was just doing it for fun.

I had a career I could go back to, but I finished another batch was and they said, why don't you get a master's? And I thought, okay, and did that. And when I started doing that, I went to the Religion Department, Stephen Robinson, to see if I could teach some classes. And he did. And the rest is history. They sent me off to Clamond. They didn't let me stay at BYU, which is what I would have liked to have done. And I thought, how am I going to pay for this? You know, I'm a foreigner. I don't have access to all of the loans, this isn't cheap. So I did it with a lot of kind of hope and faith. I got there and I thought I jumped into the deep end and couldn't swim because everybody

had been studying this stuff for years. The things that I learned at Clamont were, which was very textually based is the questions that scholars ask of texts. And they're different to the questions that we sometimes ask in the church. And I found that with my church background I answered the questions differently than what my peers at Clermont did because of the restoration. But I found that questions were really, really intriguing to me. One of those places again where that just changed the way I thought about red and studied scriptures.

Ever since, I love the scriptures, I love the Old Testament. This is one of my favorite books. I'm a person who thinks that context is really, really important, not just a nice thing, but it's critical for us to be able to even make the connections to how this applies in our life. I do this some skills that I learned there. I've been very, very important to my study of the scriptures and feeling the spirit bless me to see in ways that I haven't seen before.

I really believe that the spirit comes to the seekers, not to the passive. So I've got to be looking for questions and reading them with that so that the spirit can teach me and direct me. Yeah, I picked you a little 11-year-old girl in a tiny little branch with her, with her, with her triple combination and what that has turned into has been spectacular. I mean, you can see why I pinch myself every now and then, right? Brings us full circle about an unexpected life because that, that is a beautiful story.

I've never heard that about you and I love that. I want every 11 year old to hear that story. It's just awesome. We want to thank Dr. Gay, Strathren for being with us today. Wow, wow, wow. You have just richly blessed John and I and all of our listeners.

Thank you for being here. We hope to see you again. We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sornon and our sponsors, David and Verla Sonson, and we hope all of you will come back next week for another episode of Follow Him. you