Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - The Articles of Faith and Official Declarations 1 & 2 • Part 1 • Bro. Thom Reed • December 8-14 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

What if two of the most “revolutionary revelations” in Church History are two that we often overlook? Brother Thom Reed unpacks the Articles of Faith and Official Declaration 1 as bold, future-shaping revelations, from Joseph Smith’s visionary inclusiveness (with a surprise rap) to Wilford Woodruff’s courageous end to plural marriage to preserve temples and covenants.YouTube: https://youtu.be/eKznL8Fq3YoFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookBook of Mormon: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastBMBook  WEEKLY NEWSLETTER https://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletter  SOCIAL MEDIA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTIMECODE:00:00 Part 1 - Brother Thom Reed01:13 Episode teaser04:51 Bio of Brother Thom Reed12:50 The Genesis Group17:03 Come, Follow Me Manual20:22 Truth for the entire world23:00 Power comes from understanding principles24:35 DJ Brother T raps the Articles of Faith28:45 Living in revelation30:06 Revelation in the craft store31:37 Revelation may be subtle34:17 The miraculous nature of the Articles of Faith36:07 Being patient for answers39:18 A future, growing thing not a creed42:22 Family History uniform change44:59 Context to manifestos47:35 Preparation for the Second Coming50:07 Faith to move forward53:11 Full uniform56:17 Focus on families and covenants59:44 Be inspired, not offended1:01:42 A recent sealing1:03:40 End of Part 1 - Brother Thom ReedThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsAmelia Kabwika: Portuguese TranscriptsHeather Barlow: Communications DirectorSydney Smith: Social Media, Graphic Design "Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Coming up in this episode on Follow Him. I remember Revelation hit me in a hobby lobby. I'm standing in line trying to get some stuff for youth gifts to give out at graduation, and this one book is standing up there. I'd never read it before. God said, this brother needs that book. And so I bought it, and I gave it to him. Hello, everyone.

Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I'm your host. I'm here with my co-host, John, by the way. who is honest, true, chased, benevolent, virtuous, and does good to all men. Indeed, we may say he follows the admonition of all. John, as I'm reading the 13th article of faith, this could be John, by the way's bio. Thanks, Hank. My dad used to say, honest, true, and chased by an elephant. I've never actually been chased by an elephant. You roared at a lion once. That's one of my favorite.

Hank's stories. One day I'll have to tell that story on the show. But I've never been chased by an elephant. Hey, John, we are privileged to have with us, brother Tom Reed. Tom, welcome to follow him. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. It's going to be fun. I'm excited. Yeah. Just in our talk before we hit record, John, we can tell this is going to be a good day. We're going to have a lot of fun. John, today, interesting section, interesting content here, the Articles of Faith, and some official declarations. So as you were thinking about recording today, what came to mind? What were you thinking about? One of the first things I was thinking about was Elder Holland's talk about a boy who came to him and said, I'm not sure if I know the church is true, but I believe

it is. And part of Elder Holland's response, he said, our collective articles of faith begin, we believe, never be embarrassed about believing. The other thing I thought about was article of faith nine because these official declarations are evidence of article of faith nine that god will yet reveal many great and important things it's a continuous restoration that's great i love that does call them official declarations but i also like adding those great and important declarations as well tom as you've been prepping for today what are we looking forward to give us a preview what's really come to me is what i'm terming revolutionary revelations It's this whole block, the Articles of Faith, Official Declaration 1, official declaration

two are these moments when God stepped in to change the story, to change the church, and to prepare us for the Savior in ways that would never leave things the same. We're going to hit these first, the Articles of Faith. Joseph didn't just give these to the saints. He gave this world a declaration of what the restored church stands for. That, to me, was revolutionary, and it still anchors us today. And then you got official declaration one. President Wilford Woodruff.

He shows us what happens when a prophet courageously follows revelation. He changed course. Joseph had a revelation. Wilford had a different revelation or needed to do something different at that time. And it protected the temple. It protected God's work and set the church on a new course, even in the middle of a really messy past. And the third, official declaration to this revelation not only changed the church, but also changed

my life personally. When 1978, Spencer W. Kimball prays, the heaven's open, and the Revelation transforms continents, families, and individuals. There's three things I love when I present to always help people walk away with something they know, they feel, and they do. You're going to know after we have this conversation that God still speaks and Revelation is real. But Revelation for the world comes to His servants, the prophets, and you're going to know that. you're going to feel the gratitude and confidence that that same God who opened the heavens for Joseph Smith, for Wolfram Woodruff, for Spencer W. Kimball, is still opening the heavens for you and me and for those we love. That's what you'll feel. What I want you to do with this knowledge is trust in God's living prophets and seek revelation for yourself. There is a God in heaven. He has a prophet on the earth right now. I want to want you to go and trust him. You read these three sections. You can't help but trust God and know that he's in charge. Trust his prophets. That's what I hope listeners get from it today.

At the end, we'll take a quiz and we'll see. Everybody will have to say, now I know, now I feel, now I do, that kind of stuff, right? We talk often about who we're going to bring on. And as Tom started to give us his summary, you could feel it. Yeah. This is going to be a good day. This is the right man. Now, some of our listeners might not know who Brother Tom Reed is. So, John, what do we know about him? You know, I just have some little outline points, but I'd really love for Tom to fill us in a little bit more. I think he has a fascinating background because Tom and his parents are African American.

When I read his Facebook post, he was like, but it's kind of Japanese African American because I grew up in Japan. Wow. And his dad and mom, yeah, in the Air Force of this picture of his dad in his Air Force uniform, really cool. Tom, just so you know, a picture of the Air Force, you are now endeared in John, by the way,'s mind. Tom attended some different evangelical church and Baptist Church, but joined the church in 1991. So this is what's really cool because I think the Lord just, he just loves to do things like this, called Tom back to Japan. in the Nagoya Japan mission when he was 21 years old. He went to Illinois State University, bachelor's in international business, an MBA from Brigham University. He actually taught

marketing at LDS Business College, which is now Ensign College. And right now, if I got this right, you're a program manager at Family Search for North American African Heritage. And I just love family history. I think it's fascinating. Our souls expand when we suddenly have names and faces of people that we're connected to. Tom, one of my favorite things was you spell your name, T-H-O-M, you don't pronounce the H, and I'm John, and you don't pronounce the H. So you're Tom, and I'm John. So, yeah. Yes, that's fist bump to that. Your name is just ink. We're just going to call you A-H from now on. The Silent H of Inc. Tom and John with our silent ages. That's great. Tom, tell us more.

Were you in the United States where you're still in Japan when you started investigating in the church? How did that happen? So Japan at birth was just a short little while. So my dad was stationed there. My sister actually was born in Germany while he was stationed in Germany. My parents, both African American from the Midwest. My dad born in Chicago, my mother was born in Arkansas, but they met in Gary, Indiana. And that's where they grew up. Dad was in the Air Force, retired. Actually, before he retired, he got stationed in California. California. So when I was three years old, we moved to California. We lived on a place called Treasure Island Naval Station. So I should be rich. There was no money there. I was kind of no treasure. I was digging up on the beaches trying to find coins and there was nothing at Treasure Island. So I was kind of mad. But then he retired and we moved to Dunta-da-da-da-da,

normal Illinois. Okay. That is the name of the town. It is in Central Illinois. It's about two and a half hour south Chicago, two hours north of St. Louis. right smack in the heart of Illinois. The most fertile soil in the world is in McLean County, which normal is in, right next to Bloomington State Farm headquarters, Illinois State University. So the city gets its name because it was a teacher's college that was founded there. Illinois State Normal University. They took off normal eventually and became Illinois State University, which I graduated from. What I like to tell people is I'm the only Black Latter-day Saint that joined the only normal ward in the entire church.

I was a member of the normal ward. So the other brother who's from my town, Jonathan was baptized in the Bloomington Ward. And so Bloomington Normal are Sister Cities. But I'm the only one from the, maybe not. There'll be some friends from normal that'll be like, no, Tom, as you can tell, I've taken that normal thing and been like, my life has not been normal at all. Here I am, joined the church at 18 years old, going to the University of Illinois. That's a miraculous story in and of itself, how it started with some young men in my little

neighborhood, but then eventually transitioned to a young man who was attending the University of Illinois with me. I'll tell you more about that probably later, decided that I wanted to go on a mission. That was kind of weird. And my dad wasn't really cool with that at all, in fact. He really had some issues with the church right at the beginning because of things like priesthood restriction, the prior priesthood restriction, which he had become aware of. He thought of mission was a waste of time until I opened my call. And when I opened my call, I said,

Dad, I'm going back home. And he said, right on stretch. That's his nickname for me. His name is Tom also. That's why I put the H in mine so that we just be different, because I'm different that way. I'm not normal. The H is for height because I read somewhere that you're really tall. How tall are you talking? Yes, six foot four. In the Genesis Group Presidency, where I currently serve my calling under the Utah areas

in the Genesis Group presidency, I'm actually the middle guy. There's actually Will Kennedy, who's 6'8. So I've loved that since he joined the presidency as second counselor because I'm the middle guy. But yes, eight can stand for height. Met my wife there in normal, got married in Chicago Temple, which was great.

We've got children. Three of our children were born in normal, two others in other locations. We've got five of them. What a great story. My career took a different path as well. I went to Illinois State from my undergrad. The day I graduated from undergrad, which again is not normal, my second child was born that morning at 4 a.m.

And I walked at 4 p.m. That was a crazy day. My wife was in the hospital, and back then they didn't have video. So she got to hear on my sister's cell phone when they called my name as I walked across the stage to graduate from Illinois State. and she still had baby in her arms in the hospital in Urbana, Illinois, chose to get into marketing, came to BYU, did my MBA, and then got to go to Procter and Gamble and went to Cincinnati, Ohio, where I had a great experience for three years, and then chose to kind of follow a guy who was a bit of a mentor to me. Ken Snyder, if you're listening, you know how much you mean to me, brother.

He helped me prepare for my mission, and then he was president of a company back in Bloomington Normal that I went to go work for. Unfortunately, that's when the economy downturned. I was back and forth between various jobs, ended up in Utah in 2010, still was struggling with some jobs and stuff until I came to work for the church in the family history department and Family Search in 2013. So I've been there 12 years in Family Search, and it has been a wonderful blessing to be a part of what my patriarchal blessing identifies as will be my career and the thing that I'll be contributing most in the gathering of Israel is family history. The Lord had something in store for me. That's why I'm here. We live in South Jordan, Utah, and we live in a normal house, so it's not anything like crazy there.

It's a normal house that you brought from normal Illinois. There's a lot more to my story. I did serve as a Ward Temple and Family History Leader for three weeks after I got released as Bishop because then Elder Hutz Folle called me from the Utah, our area 70 to be called to serve as second counselor in the Genesis Group at that time. And then since then the first counselor needed to be released. And so I got called to be first counselor as well. So I currently serve as first counselor in the Genesis Group presidency, which is a group that supports Black Latter Day Saints in the Utah area. With President Ron Elfew, who I have known since the 1900s. That is a good man. The 1900s.

You make it sound like that was so long ago. It was. It was 25 years ago. Such a good man. I'm guessing he's listening this time around, so Ronnell, we love you. He better be president. You need to listen. Yeah.

Because he helped me prepare a little bit too. Oh, good, good. Hey, Tom, why don't you tell us more about the Genesis branch? I've got to speak out there once or twice. Yeah. And it'll be a great connection back to when we talk about official declaration too as well. But the Genesis group was formed in 1971. Under the direction of the first presidency, three junior apostles were given the assignment

to meet with three black men in Salt Lake City, Utah, who were noticing the struggle that Black Latter-day Saints were having in the 1960s and the 1970s. In 1971, on October 19th, there's Gordon B. Hinkley, Thomas S. Monson, and Boyd. K. Packer, established the Genesis Group. At the time, they called a man Ruffin Bridgeford to serve as president, Darius Gray to serve as first counselor, and Eugene Orr to serve

a second counselor. That organization has been in existence since 1971. Seven years before the revelation on the priesthood. And if you can ever have the chance to listen to the recording of that day, to hear President Hinckley,

turn the meeting over to a man who does not have the priesthood to present for sustaining vote other members. That day they sustained a Relief Society, primary presidency, young men, young women presidency in that meeting. Ruffin Bridgeforth was the one who sustained all of them

after President Hinkley sustained he and the presidency. Just an amazing thing. So it's existed in various forms since 71, and then obviously Revelation came in 78. And really, it's there to help strengthen Black Latter Day Saints in their walk with the Savior. Now we exist.

as a multi-stake activities group. And we are called the Genesis Group. We are an official unit of the church, but we are multi-stake within the Utah area. We're really here to help build and strengthen individuals, build and strengthen the Genesis Group, and help strengthen stakes and leaders of the church as they reach out and try and minister to Black Latter-A Saints.

I got introduced to it through Darius Gray, which you hear a lot more about his name. This is probably the third time I already dropped his name. So, Darius, you better be listening to Ronell, Darius. I'm calling everybody, Kent Snyder, everybody needs to be listening to this. Darius, when I met him in Illinois in 2001 and then came to BYU in 2002, that's when I became active in the Genesis group and started to come and bring my family. My wife is white, so our children are biracial, and it has been a challenge for them,

living in Utah, being the anomaly, and not having others in the ward that look like them. And they come to Genesis. My girls come to Genesis now because they see girls that look just like them. That's still got the same struggles that they do, but the same joy and understand the same things culturally that their family does, that other families maybe don't do coming from African American background. We're in Utah, and so if you are listening to this and you are in Utah, we want you to let your state president and bishops know about this. It is for Black Latter Day Saints, families, and friends. if you come to a Genesee group devotional, John and Hank, we ain't kicking you out.

Y'all brothers are welcome. All are welcome here. All are like unto God, as it says in Second Eiff, 26, right? We really exist to strengthen Black Latter-day Saints who have had challenges because of the past prior to 1978, things like that. That's who we truly serve. So if you know someone who could be blessed by fellowship

with other Black Latter-day Saints, please, please connect them with us. They can go to LDSGenesis group.org is the website, LDSgenesis group.org, to learn more. Find us on Facebook and Instagram as well to know what activities we got going on and to hear some of our messages and see some of the speeches that are some of the talks that are given at our devotionals and things like that. Thanks, John. I wasn't even planning for that. Thank you for giving me that commercial. I got to go and speak there once, and I just had a blast.

We don't bring you back. We're going to bring Aink Smith back as well. I'm going to forget the age when I put that on there. I will be there in a heartbeat, especially if I can see President Hugh again. Let's get started. I'm going to read from the Come Follow Me Manual. The lesson is entitled, We Believe. It starts this way.

Since Joseph Smith's first vision, God has continued to guide his church by Revelation. In some cases, that revelation has included changes to the policies and practices of the church. Official declarations one and two announced to this kind of revelation. One led to the end of plural marriage, and the other made the blessings of the priesthood available to people of all races. Changes like these are part of what it means to have a true and living church, with a true and living prophet led by a true and living God. But eternal truth doesn't change, though our understanding of it does. And sometimes Revelation casts additional light on truth. The articles of faith serve this clarifying purpose.

The church is solidly founded on eternal truth, yet can grow and change. according as the Lord will, suiting his mercies according to the conditions of men. That's Dr. Covenants 46. In other words, we believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, and we believe he will yet reveal, many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God. We have a great guest. We have a great introduction. So, Tom, where do we go from here?

One of the first things that popped up in the Come Follow Me lesson was actually taking you two teachings of the presence of the church. of Joseph Smith, right? And it was chapter 38 that kind of gives you the context. It really sets that solid context for what we're about to dive into. And I love the fact that Joseph Smith was writing a man who was in Chicago, my home state. I do call my, sorry, John, I know Japan. You talked about Japan, but my home state's Illinois. He was talking to my man in Chicago, close to my home. I have to stop and say, I love Joseph Smith. I can't wait to meet him. He is and was and will always be a prophet of God. In the simple statement he published in the Times and Seasons, it was March 1st, 1842, you get a sense of him truly understanding his duty to God and to the saints when he wrote

this. He wrote, quote, at the request of Mr. John Wentworth, editor and proprietor of the Chicago Democrat, I have written the following sketch of the rise, progress, persecution, and faith of Latter-day Saints, of which I have the honor under God of being the founder. Mr. Wentworth says that he wishes to furnish Mr. George Barstow, a friend of his, who is writing the history of New Hampshire with this document. As Mr. Barstow has taken the proper steps to obtain correct information, all that I shall ask at his hand is that he published the account entire, ungarnished, and without misrepresentation. The crowning piece of the content are these 13 declarations of church doctrine at the end of those that today we call the Articles of Faith.

Let me digress for just a second. I'm walking in big shoes because y'all had elder akmed corbett doing this lesson like three four years ago right and now i'm trying to follow up i love elder corbett we've had a great relationship he actually sealed me as a child to my deceased parents recently no kidding which was great my dad passed away in december and he as a general authority 70 was able to seal us i remember when i heard this lesson when you guys did it when it aired right after he did it and i'm like now thinking man i can't add nothing to what that brother had to say right now he serves in the caribbean area presidency and like you know has done so much since the mission in dominican he loved me and been a mentor to me

i think i have some different things now because i was praying how can i be different one of the things that just stuck out to me this time and i and i have it highlighted in my scriptures is the word all how many times it appears here to me it's how inclusive and comprehensive the 13 statements of doctrine are he wasn't just speaking to early saints Joseph was really talking and declaring this truth to the whole world. And even though that the church was small, Joseph did have a vision of its future. But at the time, the church was small, he received really what's this inclusive doctrine from the Lord. Let's take a look at these verses.

Verse three, we believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved. Verse nine, we believe all that God has revealed and all that he does now reveal. verse 11 we claim the privileges of worshipping almighty god according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege let them worship how where or what they may and then my favorite mr john by the ways scripture we believe in being honest right but it says we believe all things we hope all things we have endured many things and hope to be able to endure all things this comprehensive It's this inclusive. It's this visionary revelation that Joseph laid out for us in a way, like I said earlier,

that just anchors our faith now. If those who are listening and watching have not clicked on the link to listen, because sometimes I'm going to be honest, when I study, com, follow me. I don't click on all the links of all the resources that are in the lesson every week. This one, y'all going to miss something big if you miss Elder Elton Perry's. talk, the doctrines and principles contained in the Articles of Faith from the

October 2013 General Conference. It meant something to me when I first heard it. I remembered it as I was studying this week. I was like, oh yeah, I remember that. He shared this funny story of this kid having to stand in front of sacrament meeting and recite the article of faith because he had

graduated from there. That's what we used to do in the church. John and Hank, did y'all have to do that back in the day to graduate from primary, had to stand up and recite an article of faith? Yeah. They'd say choose your favorite one, and most of us chose the shortest one because we could memorize it, right? Absolutely. Nobody was quoting 13, nobody was quoting 11.

Nobody could say 10 because you can't say paradisiacal. Nobody could say that. So all the kids were like, okay, I can do number two, maybe, or number four. The principles and ordinance, but nobody was doing those other ones. Elder Perry says, it's great that the memorizing is that. But that's not good enough. Like the real power comes from understanding the principles and doctrines behind each article. And the articles of faith form this concise, comprehensive way to equip us how to teach and explain and defend our beliefs in a simple and clear way. As I was preparing to go on my mission and not having my mission call, I remember trying to memorize these scriptures of 1993, 94, something like that. Young in the church, there wasn't much that I could really sunk in deep at 18. I was still. learning so much. But I was like, I can memorize these because these are 13 things. I got able to say parodicycle glory and stuff like that. And then I got called to Japan. Now all that

memory just went out the window. I hate the fact that I can't memorize them. As I prepared for this, I wanted to memorize them now. And I was, let me figure out a way that I can memorize. I'm not going to actually recite them to you all because I'm not here to impress. I'm here to just bless those who would listen to us right today. One of the little games, mnemonic devices that I used to do is with Alma 3737, you ask my family, everybody knows it because during COVID, I created a song that helped us understand to counsel with the Lord and all thy doings, and he shall direct thee for good. Yea, when thou lies down at night, I have a hard time saying it because I'm so used to singing it.

I'm not going to sing it for you all the day. I'm sorry. I'm a choir singer in the back. I'm one of the baritones. You'll never sing me up. front as doing the solo, at least from a singing standpoint. But I decided to put pen to paper. I came up with a little flow. I like to rap. I like rap music. I've always wanted to be a secret rapper. My DJ name is DJ Brother T. People know, know me, right? No, I'm DJ Brother T. I put some lyrics together. I found a beat. The beat is actually a beat called Chicago. John Wentworth, Chicago Democrat. Okay. There you go. And it goes through and gives the context of the articles of faith and then goes through each of the 13 articles of faith and talks about why we believe.

Brother T. on the mic. Jambrosia Studios. You all ready for this? Yo, it started with the letter in Shotown scene. To John Wentworth, Joseph Smith came clean. He laid down history of the visions he saw. First vision fire, restoring God's law. From Pamira's light to Zion's rise. He's testified straight with prophetic eyes

A prophet's pin with purpose, oh so clear, Gave us the creed we still hold dear. We believe, we believe, this is our creed. Faith, repentance, baptism, our seeds. 13 articles form a covenant chart. 13. Guiding the saints with the power of heart. We believe, we believe, this is our creed.

Faith, repentance, baptism are seeds. 13 articles, form a covenant chart. Guiding the saints with the power of heart. One God eternal, his sons are king. Two, Adam's fall. Redemption we sing. Three, through Christ, whose salvation's host. Four, faith, repent, baptize,

the Holy Ghost, power authority. But prophets were led, six apostles and passes, the ancient thread. Seven, gifts of the spirit are alive today. Eight, the Bible and Book of Mormon are true, we say. Nine, more to come, revelations unfold. Ten, Zion will rise. Prophecies will be told.

Eleven, worship power where we choose. Twelve, obey the law. Give Caesar his duty. 13 pure virtue is seeking the light, walking with God till faith turns to sight. These lines define us, they show His grace built on Christ. These are the articles of faith. We believe, we believe. This is our creed.

Faith, repentance, baptism are seeds. Thirteen articles form a covenant chart, guiding the saints with the power of heart. We believe, we believe. This is our creed. Faith, repentance, baptism are seeds. Thirteen articles form a covenant chart. Guiding the saints with the power of heart. These are the articles of faith, truth revealed from heaven, the foundation of who we are.

These 13 things teach what we believe, why we believe, and who we follow. Jesus Christ, the living son of God. Fantastic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm certain I'm not wrong. We've done this for five years, and that is a first for follow him. That is a first. This is a unique episode. This is, we could say this is not normal from normal Illinois, right?

This is not normal. Not a normal episode. You know, to have this Black Latter Day Daybreak, Utah, spitting rhymes on Follow Him is probably something I'm assuming you might not have had anyone else do before, even though I know there's some various artists out there in the Latter Day Saint community that are black that do stuff like this, but never in this way. No, I don't follow him. I think we're pretty safe to say that. Yeah. Oh, I love it. I'm still working to have it memorized, right?

It's just funny when you're older, how much you can't memorize like you used to when you were younger, right? This song is going to help me remember these important statements. For me, the biggest thing I take away is how these articles of faith illustrate that Joseph qualified for and was living in Revelation. You guys have talked about it, I'm sure, in the past about this whole. idea like Elder Bednar teaches about living in Revelation. The whole doctrine and covenants and everything that we've been studying all this year is all about Joseph living in Revelation. Then you have obviously some other prophets towards the end that are living in Revelation as well. And I love that. I just wanted to talk a little bit about and get your thoughts on what it means

to live in Revelation and how that prepares you when big things come, how you can easily recognize that it comes from God and have the courage to deliver God's message to his people. President Oakes has commented on the fact that he said, I've met adult members of the church who don't feel they have a testimony because they never felt a burning in the bosom. Well, that's one way it can come. There's so many other ways that it can come. Sometimes it's just, what is the phrase Joseph Smith used, a pure intelligence flowing into your mind? for me sometimes I have actually thought I've heard nothing I'm going to take my best shot on this decision

and then I look back and I think wow it was being guided back then and I didn't even know it maybe that's living in revelation you don't even know it but you're doing your best you're going to get in the sacrament so you can always have his spirit to be with you sometimes not even aware that you're being guided then you look back and just say I was being guided I didn't really know it, but I was being guided. I had this not-so-normal experience as a bishop. I remember a brother came to me with a problem that he had been dealing with for a while. He expressed his frustration with the previous bishops he had talked to about this because he kept coming up in his life and great, man, it was awesome. I looked at him and I almost cried every time I heard

him teach. The spirit oozed from him in so many ways, but he was still burdened and struggled. Here I am. Okay. What can I do as Bishop to help him? I remember this whole practice of living in Revelation. I remember Revelation hit me in a hobby lobby. I'm standing in line at a hobby lobby trying to get some stuff for youth gifts to give out at graduation and find a nice little book. And this one book is standing up there and it's orange. I'd never read it before. God said, this brother needs that book. And so I bought it. And I gave it to him. And I said, I ain't never read this book before. So it could. be filled with all kind of anti-LDS rhetoric and all kind of stuff. I don't know. I mean, it was supposed to be a self-help book and all this kind of stuff. But I had not cracked it open. And I handed it to him. And he's like, Bishop, if you hand it to me, I will read it. And I'm like, come back to me in two weeks and tell me what you learned. So I'll actually know what's in the book that I gave you. And he came back in two weeks and told me, Bishop, this is so helpful because it really focuses me on my relationship with my Savior more than anything else had ever done before.

and I was like, that came from me? Like what? Yeah. Those impressions come. They may be subtle. The Rednar says, we got to be humble. Well, they can be subtle. We've got to be avoiding sin in order to have these revelations that come and be living in that revelation.

The articles of faith are written in 1842 as part of that Wentworth letter, but they weren't the result of a committee or debates or reasoning. It flowed naturally because of Joseph's revelatory experiences all up till then, and each article reflects things that Joseph learned line upon line, from the first vision through his angelic visitations, priesthood restoration, the revelations contained in the doctrine and covenants, all examples. Article of Faith One was the revelation that he received with his firsthand vision of the Father and the Son. the fourth article of faith reflects what's in doctrine and covenant section 20 on the first principles and ordinances the gospel article of faith nine we've talked about it all we believe all that god has revealed all that he does now reveal and we believe that he will yet reveal therefore making revelation itself a divining characteristic of our faith that's how joseph was living in revelation it was dynamic it was part of his unending faith really a faith in a living church it wasn't like those fixed creeds that it existed in other denominations they didn't really disclose canon instead they testify that revelation is ongoing and expected joseph was modeling confidence that god would continue to reveal truth to guide the saints he was living in revelation anticipating god's future direction as he was trusting what had already

become. Now this revelation was starting to shape doctrine and practice in real time. So by the time Joseph penned the articles of faith, the saints had already seen entire systems of belief and practice emerge through revelation. Baptism for the dead, doctrine and covenants 124. Word of wisdom, doctrine of covenant's 89. You've got the organization of the priesthood quorums section 107 in the gathering of Israel. They summarize these revealed truths in a simple and powerful way. To me, it shows how Joseph lived in Revelation by distilling divine instruction into guiding principles for the whole church. If Joseph can be living in Revelation and have such powerful doctrine distilled upon him, can we do the same? The answer is, Hank, of course we can. Yes, we can. Can we do

it? Yes, we can. What is that? I can't remember what cartoon. Bob the Builder. That's it. Bob the Builder. My kids used to watch Bob the Builder. Yes, we can. I'm really blown away here at a couple of things. One, when someone walks us through something we've read many times and shows us something new, it's both inspiring and frustrating. The word all, there's eight alls in the Articles of Faith. All of a sudden, I'm seeing them in a new light. When I first read the Articles of Faith, both of you, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, this is what we believe.

The older I get, the more I realize, if someone asked me, without having ever read the Articles of Faith, if someone said, hey, can you write everything your church believes, your doctrine, and do it in less than 700 words? Yeah, that'd be tough. Chad TPT now would help you, but... Jack could help me. But I could not do that on my own, and it would require additional intelligence. As you started saying, oh, Joseph lived this. He really did.

John, maybe you've shown me this before, but if you look at Articles of Faith 1 through 4, that seems like Joseph Smith, 1820 through 1829. Five is 1829 with authority. Six, 1830. The church is organized. Seven and eight, there's his Book of Mormon Bible project. Nine sits on its own, meaning we believe in the past, the present, the future. 10, 11, and 12, that seems like the Missouri period.

They establish Zion. They want to worship God the way that. They want to and they want other people. They can worship the way they want. We are subject to the law. And 13 stands on its own. So Tom, he really walked. He experienced this, every one of these.

All these things that he experienced in previous sections, like you said, these various periods, come out in the culmination of the articles of faith. And it shows that he was living in Revelation the whole time. That's great. One thing, I'll mention one other thing as you said, Tom, what's it like to live in Revelation? and what have we been studying this year. John, Dr. Dirkmont, in our voices of the restoration, we did 12 of those this year. If a listener hasn't heard those, they can come find them on our YouTube channel or wherever you get the podcast.

One thing he's shown us is look at the unanswered questions Joseph had about a lot of things, primarily about Alvin. So in 1823, Alvin dies, and Joseph doesn't know what's happened to him. And then Section 76 comes nine years. later, he still doesn't know what's happened to Alvin. You have to be baptized to go to the celestial kingdom. Alvin wasn't baptized. He's obviously not going. It's not until 1836. He sees a vision of the celestial kingdom and there's Alvin. So it's been 13 years. And he marveled. I thought Alvin wasn't until 1842 that the Lord says, oh yeah, there's Baptitions for the

dead. So there's 19 years of line upon line of an unanswered question. So many of us want answers now. Give me the answer now or I don't know if I can stay in. And here's Joseph who has, I think, a very important question about heaven and his own family. And it's 19 years. But he was humble enough. Yeah, he just stayed. That's part of the living in revelation is being humble enough to wait for the answer to come.

There you go. And when it comes, wait. Thanks, Tom. This has been spectacular. We talked about no, do and feel. earlier. If Joseph is an example of living in Revelation and it's manifest and evident in the articles of faith, then what for me? It's simple things that Elder Bednar taught about keeping covenants faithfully, repenting as I go, being consistent in the small things, being open to

subtle influence. I want you and John to think about how this was manifest in the life of Joseph, like act in faith, patience, trusting in God's timing. You just said that. Avoid clutter and distractions that dull spiritual sensitivity, Joseph was chastised a couple of times because he wasn't on point and then reflect and look back on the experiences to see how God has already been guiding you. And I think this is a look back as he sends this letter, supposed to be going to George Barstow and through John Wentworth, this is a look back. And it's the culmination of all these things that came from living in Revelation. Just so powerful.

This is all new to me, by the way. This isn't something I used your last name. on. I should copyright it. This is all new to me, by the way. This is all new to me. This is the thing I've taught for years. Like I said, I wanted to prepare well more in advance. This is the things that the Lord distilled upon me in the last few days. And again, it's just a testament to me that God speaks to his children because he loves us.

He will give us the revelation that we need for our purposes when we need it. might not be when we want it, but he'll be there right on time because he's an on-time God, a gospel song says. I'm not going to sing that one, sorry. Tom, you articulated that a way I've never heard before. Instead of a creed that says, let me summarize all these old documents, which is great. This had a future in mind, especially Article Faith 9, alls. this is articulating a future growing thing i got to chew on that one thank you for that one tom that was beautiful hank do you remember when we had richard bennett on he wrote an article in the ensign

magazine years ago i think it was called carefully schooled in first principles the way it opened me up was whoa joseph smith didn't just think let's see what are the first principles and ordinances this this this this he was schooled to have the faith and expectation to take James 1.5 and literally go and ask. Second, to have the 116 pages lost or stolen, repentance, the depths of repentance. And then to be translating and, hey, we haven't been baptized. What do we do? And to have the John the Baptist appear.

This is what Richard Bennett's article was about, was he didn't just come up with these. He was living in Revelation. He experienced the first principles and ordinances of the gospel before he ever put it down, which that was a great article that Richard Bennett wrote. I think I was at Education Week one time. This is when Stephen Covey's seven habits were really taking off. He was giving a gospel class. He said, have you ever noticed that the Articles of Faith kind of came in reverse order of the way things were taken away,

Just like you said, Tom, the first thing that Satan would want to mess up is our understanding of the nature of God. In the first vision, boom, article of faith one, God, the eternal father, his son, Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost. What else happened over time? The idea of original sin, the idea of Adam's transgression and two, men would be punished for their own sins, not for Adam's transgression. He went through this thing and I went, oh, I've never seen that before. there was a sequence, and you just kind of said that too, Hank. Look at the Palmyra period, the Kirtland period, and how you could kind of match those with how those unfold.

You've got my mind racing. This is good stuff already. It is. I like the fifth article of faith about we believe that a man must be called of God by prophecy and by laying on of hands by those who aren't authority to preach the gospel and administering the ordinances thereof. I like it because it's going to set us up for these next two. these official declaration one and official declaration two god had called these men by prophecy by

laying on their hands by those who were in authority then members of the church had to sustain as was designated by when it was read in general conference the official declaration one or official declaration two then we sustained by virtue of their calling love how that ties these two together all right in a blink of an eye we are back those who are viewing can see it. Those who are listening, what do we doing next? Yeah, I took off my shirt and tie and put on my uniform. I work for Family Search, the Family History Department of the Church, and had been for 12 years. And as we're talking about plural marriage and what happened to save temples, I wanted to put on this shirt for a reason, because there's a connection to family history with temple work

and what this declaration really did. That's why. And I'm not normal. So how many of your guests like do clothing wardrobe changes in the middle of the podcast. Another first. Another first that follow him. This is an interesting one, and I'll just be candid with everybody. Official declaration was one. I came to the party late. 34 years in the church, I never really felt a personal need to study polygamy.

Recently, as I kind of had to sit with official declaration one, and read it and read it and reread it and read other things about it, I heard something that felt more familiar. I heard God preserving people so covenants could keep going. For me, Official Declaration 1 isn't about stopping something hard. It's about saving something holy. In this case, it was temples and ordinances. It came line upon line. There's a period of progress that came with this. It came line upon line. Some people look at it as a big retreat from what the established principle was, but more, again, I look at it from this sense of it was a revelation to protect the covenants that carry the restoration.

That's what we do is unite families for eternity. If Wilford wouldn't have reversed course at this time, what would have happened there? That legal pressure was real. It was escalating. Like the Supreme Court upheld that anti-polygamy statutes with the Reynolds case, 1879. Congress disincorporated the church. They took over assets and disenfranchised many of the saints back then. You have the Edmonds Tucker Act like 1887, and then now you've got Utah statehood at stake.

These weren't hypothetical threats that were happening to the Saints. They were enforceable realities that were going to shape the moment of official declaration one. Now, what it says, President Woodruff publicly denied authorization of new plural marriages, he advised the Saints to, quote, refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land. Remember, Joseph said what? in the Articles of Faith? We believe in being subject. Right.

Now he's following this core doctrine that Joseph taught in General Conference, October 6, 1890, Lorenzo Snow motions recognizing Woodruff's keys, and then the canonized text then preserves the follow-up addresses where he also explains, like, the vision behind the moon. That's one cool thing about this official declaration one, is that you got a heading, and then you got the to whom it may concern, the man. manifesto, which I do want to talk about a manifesto because this is the first time I actually really studied what a manifesto is and why this revelation was called a manifesto. I want to make sure we hit on that a little bit later. Do you have the manifesto? Then you have the reading that happens at General

Conference. Then you have all this background on it. I mean, it's really fascinating. The church has been with the church history department publishing more on the church and polygamy and plural marriage, you can go in the gospel library and read all those, and you get pointed to those from the Come Follow Me as well. It's great to have all this context and understanding it. Now, one of the things I realize is that as you read the context, you understand everything that was going on, you're going to see that it's not an event, but a process. There were plural marriages continued and limited circumstances after 1890. It was mostly outside the U.S., which prompted then Joseph F. Smith's 1904.

statement threatening excommunication for new plural marriages, which is referred to as the second manifesto. That enforcement line finally shut everything down institutionally. It wasn't just this one. You can think of official declaration one is when it stopped. It actually crept a little bit later than that. Again, I want to go back to President Woodruff's recorded rationale was really about preserving the temples and keeping profits and families free to lead in worship, because that was all

at stake. He said, quote, the Lord will never permit me to lead you astray and testified, that's kind of the inner logic behind official declaration one. Your thoughts. I want to hear from you guys. What did you get from it reading it this time or in your years and years of studying this? I love the way you put it. Instead of looking at stopping something, it was protecting something sacred. It was protecting the temples that we had.

And that's what Wilford Woodruff saw would happen. He saw our day. He saw 382 temples in 2025. That's what he saw at stake. I can't keep up with that number. Is it 382 now? Yeah. What time is it?

Yeah, I was like, that's the last I checked, but it could have changed. That's what he saw. He saw what was at stake. There's a lot of those who are not sympathetic to our faith. Let's just call them that critics who talk about why this was done. I really think it was done out of love. I believe it was done out of preparing us for the second coming of the Savior and what needed to be done. Now, it was established to achieve God's purposes the same. Come follow me takes us right to

section 132. Let's jump into the scriptures here. I want to go to section 132. I want to focus and hone in on those last verses. It's here where we get the laws governing plural marriage. This is the revelation given to prophet Joseph. This is the line upon line that he receives now. Now touching the law of the priesthood, there are many things pertaining therein too. Wherefore, if a man be called of God, as was Aaron, by mine own voice and by the voice of him that sent me, and I have endowed him with the keys and the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit sin, and I will justify him. here's the new word. The Articles of Faith's word was all. This section's word is justify, glorify, and destroy. He sets it up here saying, hey, I'm letting you know. If you got the priesthood, if you're endowed, and you're doing things in according with my name, you don't commit sin. He said, let no one, therefore set my servant Joseph, for I will justify him, for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgression, sayeth the Lord your God.

or not this feels good to you what's happening here. This is what the Lord is revealing the prophet Joseph, and this is why it happened. People ask why it happened all the time, and their speculation and conjecture and all kinds of theories, and we hear people badmouth in Joseph, but it's a revelation from God. It's God himself speaking to Joseph, saying, this is how you're supposed to do it. So Joe's trying to do it. And if he have 10 virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him. Therefore, is he justified. Keep the commandments of God and you're justified. If you do it for his purposes to achieve what he has set out for you to achieve, you will be glorified. If not, you will be

destroyed. And this whole thing came from an Old Testament practice. As I read this, what's coming up for you, Hank? What's going on for you, John? I'm fascinated. We went kind of backwards here, right? We went to official declaration one. And then let's go backwards to when this practice started. Latter-day Saints are still the same today. We resist change. We resist foreign things. We resist commandments that make us uncomfortable. Because here, the Lord is saying, yes, I want this to happen. Everyone's dragging their feet, which is understandable. And then official declaration one, the Lord's saying, I want this to happen, and everybody's dragging their feet but it's the opposite direction it's just the lord working with people in fear saying have faith

move forward yep i was impressed from the statement that president woodruff made it said excerpts this is by official declaration one excerpts from three addresses by president woodruff he says let me ask you a question and he asks this really long question about what if we lost everything what if we lose the temples what if we lose our leadership? What if we lose all of our personal property? Is that worth keeping this practice? Then he said, I've been shown what will happen if we don't stop this practice. He talks about what he's seen. After both of those things, he says, I want to tell you this. I would let all the temples go. I would go to prison myself. I would let every Latter-day Saint-Man go there. Had

heaven not commanded me to do this thing. He's being practical. He's saying, look, this is what would happen if we don't stop. But really, this is about what the Lord has said. It's the same thing in 132. The Lord is saying, I know you're struggling. This is what I have said, according to my commandment. It must be frustrating to the Lord that we resist all of that. He deals with it, Right, Sean? He's got to go teach us one way. We resist. He's got to go teach us to do something else. Just the other way. Resist. Right. As Latter-day Saints, or as a teacher myself, I find myself to be more apologizing for the doctrine sometimes. I know you really struggle with this. I know, I know. And the Lord doesn't seem to have that attitude. He's saying, look, I commanded this. I commanded this.

We're going to move forward. Why are we struggling so much? He's gentle, as he explains, but he doesn't give excuse. I excuse not myself, he says, in Section 1. Thank you, Hank. I think of Father Adam. Why are you offering sacrifices? I know not. Save the Lord commanded me. We talk about that in our family all the time because sometimes we want a reason for everything and we want it right now. Sometimes the Lord doesn't explain things. I don't think he ever explained to Job exactly why I did what he did. said, hey, were you there when I created everything? That's inspiring. Thank you, Wilford Woodruff, for that example, too.

Courage, courage, courage. I put on my shirt and I'm putting on my family search hat. All right. For a reason. Full uniform. Full uniform now, right? This whole declaration teaches us that the faithfulness sometimes means ending a once commanded practice to keep the covenant center intact.

If we can stay rooted in ordinances while, the Lord retire things that no longer serve as purposes, then we're much better off. In this case, the Lord's honoring the people, especially the women and children. Like ending plural marriage required this courage and produced some real losses and logistics for families. Think about it. Who could not be in this, when the church put the essay out about it, like they talked about how complicated and painful and intensely personal these decisions were. Like you said, people were struggling. We know looking forward means telling those stories with tenderness and refusing to weaponize the past. We can't use that as ammunition about how the practice was wrong just because

it ended. To me, it's finally this third thing I got from it was, shows this pattern for modern discipleship. When legal culture and global realities press upon the church, we can expect these revelations that will safeguard temples, prophets that will safeguard. Prophets that will safeguard families. When the things are threatened, God's going to protect these things. It's not about retreating. It's about girding up our loins and having a strategy that's going to help us for salvation. To me, we're just witness about preserving ordinances as a template about how heaven prioritizes things. It prioritizes celestial law over terrestrial law. Covenants matter more than policy and practice.

Absolutely. I was really interested in understanding how this manifesto protects and enables Temple and Family History Work today. What's the connection between these two? This was the question that was going on in my head. So I got three things that come from this manifesto. We know that the manifesto was about preserving the authority of church leadership. when President Woodruff and those who sustain it acted, they kept these temple ordinances under the direction of properly authorized priesthood.

That meant later prophets apostles would still have control over temple work, sealing ordinances, and baptisms for the dead. If they didn't do that, that whole authority of the church leadership would have been gone. This means when temple work accelerates, when sealing work expands, when ordinances for the dead are done in more places and under consistent unified authority and regulation, because of that protection, There is consistency, integrity, and trust in how family names are treated. Because he did this, this is how it's impacting us today. There's integrity. There's trust. There's consistency.

Otherwise, without temples and without church leaders having that authority to administer the ordinances thereof, what would be happening today? Things would be running amok. What's your thoughts on that? I really like the focus on the families, the covenants that they've made, protecting those families and the covenants. I love the focus on the temple and what we already have is more important than a practice of the past is covenants and ordinances and their efficacy going forward. Exactly. I thought of the explanatory introduction to the doctrine covenants.

I know that's something that comes to mind often for most people. We're going way back then. You've got to take it way back. Yeah. It says, this is the second page. these revelations were received an answer to prayer in times of need and came out of real life situations involving real people the prophet in this case wilford woodruff and his associates sought for divine guidance and these revelations certify that they received it these are real people in real situations i liked what you said there tom sometimes we weaponize the past and we make these people basically objects that we can use to assert what we want on a other people or the church. These are real people who are suffering in real ways on both sides of

this. And just trying to do the will of God, struggling with what that will is, because all these forces are raging against them. They're trying to stand up for, and at the end of the day, the Lord reveals and speaks to his prophet and says, okay, let's go a different direction now. This is what we're going to do because this is going to prepare the world for the Savior's return. Now I think about the standard of truth. Recite the standard of truth for me. I'll tell you this, Tom, if our executive producer Shannon Sorenson were here or any of her children or Steve, her husband, they have this memorized through and through. I mean, they could do it backwards and forwards. I love what you've told us. This is this article to the Chicago Democrat. And here's Joseph Smith saying, okay, I'll do

this, but you have to include every word. Don't edit it for you. your purposes, include every word. Towards the end here, and usually we don't hear this part, but he says, our missionaries are going forth to different nations, and in Germany, Palestine, New Holland, the East Indies, and other places. Here's where we usually start. The standard of truth has been erected. No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing.

Persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, columny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every climb, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done. Then, what comes next? Number one, we believe in God, the eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. Number two, I love the way that flows. You want to know about it? us? Okay, here it comes. Tom, I just love this. In the 1840s, these are real people who are struggling, like you said, to do the will of God. And in the 1890s, even though it's a completely opposite direction,

these are real people who are struggling to do the will of God. And we are what? We are real people in our day who are struggling to do the word of God. Right. I can't remember who said this. It was one of my favorite phrases that I've learned from follow him. And that is rather than thinking about these real people, rather than being offended for them, let's be inspired by them. That is Dr. McLean Heward. So good. Four years ago on section 51 through 57, we'll link it in our show notes. John, I had that exact same thought. I think these are real people rather than being offended for them and saying, that's not fair 200 years later or whatever, sometimes they're not even saying that.

We want to say it for them. So thank you, McLean. Earlier I talked about how much I loved the prophet Joseph Smith. I love President Woodruff. The courage that it took for him to do this as a prophet of God, I can't wait to meet him. This is a testimony to me. And the church acknowledged that by saying,

hey, we're going to accept this manifesto because of the rights by his authority, he said it, and this is what the will of the Lord, thus saith the Lord, we need to accept this. And I am raising my hand to the square, saying, I sustain you, President Wildriff. I can't imagine how difficult it was. I wasn't there.

I don't know, but I can't imagine how difficult it would have been to course correct in this significant a way, but I'm glad you did because Tom Reed works for family search today, and I'm helping. members in the United States Southeast area submit names for temple ordinances at a higher rate than they've ever been able to do before. Oh, so good.

Without that revelation, we would not have temples and temple work today. We'd not have Elder Corbett being able to seal me to my parents on April 11, 2025. All these things would be done away with. Thank you, President Woodruff, for valuing the

covenants and the ordinances. Tom, I saw, when I was looking up your bio, I saw the photograph you have of your parent gravestones there and thought, look at this. We're still connected. This is my family. And now you've sealed in April. Now you're going to make me cry. I'm talking about my mom and dad.

I just saw that. And I thought, see, my mom and dad, they're gone too. But boy, we're connected. That's what these temples do. We're still working together. Just to throw in a Bible connection, there's a commandment the Lord gives in Matthew Chapter 10 when he's speaking to his apostles. And it's the first commandment, at least listed in the chapter, is you are not to teach

Gentiles. You absolutely do not go into any village of the Samaritans. That's a pretty direct commandment. I don't want you teaching people based on their ethnicity. You're not going to teach Gentiles. You're not even going to go into villages of the Samaritans. It's an easy one to remember because it's then Acts chapter 10. That was Matthew chapter 10. But in Acts chapter 10, Peter, the saviors died, resurrected and ascended to heaven. And the Lord says to Peter, it is now time to teach Gentiles and Samaritans.

There's a completely 180 on our old policy. we see how many people pushed back against what'd you call a course change we're going to change courses now i know it's the exact opposite of what he said earlier but he's saying it he is saying it he capital h he capital he so we're good we're going to do it real people trying to do the will of god coming up in part two hebrew's words captured the magnitude the world never be the same, the future will be changed. This was not only a revelation that stretched forward into the future, but backward into history.