followHIM - 2 Nephi 1-2 Part 2 • Dr. Lili Anderson • Feb 5 - Feb 11 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: January 31, 2024

Dr. Lili De Hoyos Anderson continues to explore agency, stretching our spirit over our flesh, and trusting God amidst our afflictions.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/book-of-mormon-episodes-1-13/Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/follow-him-a-come-follow-me-podcast/id1545433056Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/15G9TTz8yLp0dQyEcBQ8BY00:00 Part II–Dr. Lili De Hoyos Anderson00:07 Lehi teaches of a Fortunate Fall02:47 The purposes of affliction and Dr. Anderson’s personal challenges09:09 God consecrates our afflictions14:36 Being antifragile18:59 God’s miraculous alchemy20:57 Becoming like God requires sacrifice23:23 Trusting God amidst afflictions25:30 Choosing glory31:23 Choosing requires freedom32:19 Agency vs. freedom35:56 Stretching our spirit over our flesh40:00 The spirit is willing43:23 Leading by example and action48:21 Grace, works, and agency49:24 Corrie ten Boom53:54 Dr. Anderson shares her testimony of Jesus Christ59:11 End of Part II– Dr. Lili De Hoyos AndersonThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignAnnabelle Sorensen: Creative Project ManagerWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Welcome to part two of Follow Him with Dr. Lily DeJoyo Sanderson, 2 Nephi chapters 1 and 2. Lily, I think we could spend a month in 2 Nephi 1. There is so much here, but we only have you for a certain amount of time. So let's go into 2 Nephi chapter 2. I wanted to read from the manual and then share a quote from Elder Tad Collister. Here it is from the manual. Lehi's family was now in a new land, full of new possibilities. The choices they made in this new place would be important for their success and happiness. Perhaps this is why Lehi taught his son Jacob about agency, the ability to make choices. And then it goes through some possibilities the manual does about things you might do with your family, speaking of choices. And then it goes on to talk about how God can turn trials into blessings and how Lehi

talks to Jacob about that. Elder Collister, in a talk called The Book of Mormon, Man-Made or God-Given, BYU Devotional back in 2016, he was talking about how it's impossible for Joseph Smith to have written the Book of Mormon. He said this, even if Joseph had obtained some sort of historical facts from local libraries or community conversations for which there is no substantiating evidence, the real issue still remains. Where did he, Joseph, get the deep and expansive doctrine taught in the book of mormon much of which is contrary to the religious beliefs of his time for example contemporary christianity taught that the fall was a negative not a positive step forward as taught in the book of mormon and

then he singles out second nephi 2 there's so many chapters that could fit this, but 2 Nephi 2, he says, 2 Nephi 2 is a mind-expanding sermon on the relationship between the fall and Christ's atonement. I've told my students at BYU, if Joseph Smith just gives us 2 Nephi 2, he's a prophet. So with that introduction, Lily, how do you want to take on 2 Nephi 2? This is a powerhouse chapter. Honestly, anything that you delve into becomes a powerhouse chapter. This one's golden nuggets on every page and every verse almost. So I think we talk about the purpose of affliction. I think we talk about the purpose of opposition, which are somewhat different, but then, and

which of course leads us to agency. We're also going to talk about the fall. Then we do want to, of course, sort of culminate with the role of the Holy Messiah, the Anointed One. There is a little addiction scripture in 2 Nephi that is worth spending a moment on. So I think maybe we'll leave the Savior for the last, but then I do think there's also a gem here about boundaries. And I'm hoping we can get to all these things. Let's start with the purpose of affliction. Jordan Peterson, many people know, he's a clinical psychologist and scholar and interesting, interesting guy. And he said, people can develop resentment for the burden of being. Human existence is characterized by a fair bit of suffering. We're limited creatures,

and life is very hard. Everyone dies. Everyone you love is going to die. Most of the things you do, all the things you do, will eventually fail. Suffering is a certainty, and it's very easy for people to become resentful about existence. I think that that's a good observation. Life is hard. And I've spoken about this on other times and in other settings, that it seems like there are three choices. You can become bitter and angry about it, very resentful, or you can put your head down and hope that the storm passes quicker rather than slower. But the third path is the right one, and that is to yield ourselves to the process and to see what God has in mind for us. That can only happen in the furnace of affliction or in the valley of the shadow. And there are some things that can only happen in those wilderness times,

in those difficult times of affliction. I'm going to get personal here. Had a hard year, and some of this was temporal stuff, but our home has two floors. The upstairs was involved in a remodel. Of course, it takes much longer than you think and costs more than you think, but we were prepared for that. And five weeks after we started the remodel, we had a huge flood that came from some city water, all entered into our basement. And this large basement, not one foot was left or not one inch was left that wasn't flooded and inundated and damaged. So things went into even greater chaos. We only had basically our room, our bedroom that was sort of a sanctuary and a place of peace where we could go.

And of course it got really cluttered because if we had any projects to do or whatever, it had to be done in that room because there really wasn't any other usable, viable space. You have a lot of bedrooms. There wasn't another bed set up anywhere. At some point there were no chairs that you could sit in and everything was shuffled like a deck of cards because we had to keep moving it. We had to move it up from the basement and we had to shove things in storage. Anyway, we had disaster recovery people there for weeks. Now, I remember my husband and I were talking about this and we were saying like, well, this is not Job-like suffering. It's just stuff. And even though, honestly, it was a financial blow of pretty huge proportions

because the insurance wouldn't cover anything and the city wouldn't take any responsibility. We're like, you know, it's just stuff. It's just money. We'll get through it. We'll get through it. We're still okay. And then unexpectedly, when we were out of town trying to get some repose from some of the chaos, and this was not even a full week before Christmas. My husband died suddenly of a pulmonary embolism when we were out of town. Don't want to make this just about me or this, but I remember thinking, like Job, I have lost my family. Well, not all my family. And I don't want to compare myself at that level with Job. But it was a sobering thought that the family that I lived with was now gone. I have wonderful kids, and they're marvelous. And I have so many amazing

friends around me that come through in moments like that, that are tender and beautiful. And it does make me weep with gratitude. I did feel the opposition of it, the affliction of losing my life's partner that I've lived with half a century. He was my best friend, and I miss him with an ache that is amazing. I cannot imagine not knowing the gospel and the truths of the restored gospel about the purposes of life and the gift of resurrection and eternal families. And I found myself testifying kind of organically to the EMTs and to the coroner and to the police officers that had to come and make a report.

And to the angels who appeared. It's a long story and I won't go into it, but there were angels all around me on both sides of the veil that sustained and supported me. And one of my children immediately flew out. They all volunteered, but she was not too far and she was a beginner in her flight and then accompanied me back home. I do want to share this and I hope this isn't too personal or uncomfortable for people. I tried CPR before the EMTs came, and I said a prayer before I started. And I said in the prayer, it was a very short prayer, but I said, I know thou art a God of miracles,

and thou canst heal him if it be thy will. But if it's not thy will, please help me to submit and accept and become what is thy will. And then I began, and it was not going to work. They worked on him for a while, but he was gone. I'm testifying that because of my knowledge of God and my trust in him, I know that he has a superior intelligence, a perfect intelligence of things as they really are, as they really were and as they are to come.

He sees all things present. And because I believe that, and I know that he is motivated only by love, I know that there is mercy in this. And I was able to have impression after impression. They were not just the whisperings of the Spirit. They were powerful that began that very day and continued for quite some time. And even now, I still get some, but they were so abundant and so merciful immediately that helped me understand the mercy and what had happened. The mercy for Chris, the mercy for me, and the love. And I know it's true. And I did think about this verse in 2 Nephi and many, many other places where Lehi tells his children so beautifully, thou knowest the greatness of God, and he shall consecrate thy deflection for thy good. I testify that that is true. I know he's not finished with me.

And there is a way for me to perfect my faith and to conform to the image of his son. And I want that. I want that more than I want the comforts of life, including my companion. And I know that Chris is fine and happy and here. I know he is with us. I have felt him again and again. I have felt him blessing me. I have felt the Lord's blessings in abundance. It didn't end with the loss of Chris. Then there's a cascade of things. So many things that have to be handled that don't go well.

There have been troubles on every side, including shortly after the funeral, my bank account, my principal bank account was hacked. And it was bad. And they say it's very unusual. And it has been a complication after complication situation. I was just, I was sort of like, you know, like, when does the beating stop? And those are small things compared to the loss of Chris, but relentless financial issues, costs that came up, not associated with Chris's loss, but other things that were just like, pow, pow. And I was like, I will not doubt the love of my Heavenly Father and Savior for me. I will not, because I choose not to.

I choose to embrace their love and to know that all of it will be consecrated for my gain and for the gain of my children. I know it with a knowledge that I'm so grateful for that has been a witness born by the Spirit again and again in my life. I'm so grateful for that has been a witness born by the Spirit again and again in my life. I'm so grateful that I was there before, but I know we can get there wherever we are, and that we must, if we want to have a meaningful life, if we want to embrace the gospel and all that it gives to us, if we want to embrace our Savior and let Him embrace us, that we must trust Him. And that there is no other way to find those consecrated blessings that are in store for us.

There was anger and resentment and betrayal. I could sense them in the wings immediately. And they wanted to take center stage. I was like, why would I go there? Why would I let them enter? This is not consistent with what I know. I will trust. I will submit and allow God to do his miracle in me and in my life. I love the gospel. I love my God and my sweet Lord Jesus, and I do trust them. We spoke about why bad things happen to good people when we talked about Joseph of Egypt in an episode from

the Old Testament. I would encourage people to go if they want some beautiful quotes, and the discussion that we had then, they could review that episode because I did share a lot of wonderful promises that have been made in Scripture and by our leaders about how the Lord consecrates our affliction for our gain. Lillie, that was our most listened to episode of our Old Testament year. It is powerful because we all do live in this world where, like Jordan Peterson says, we can become resentful if we are not careful. I will quote just a couple of things from that episode. C.S. Lewis, the hardness of God is kinder than the softness of men.

And his compulsion is our liberation. A beautiful statement by Ann Lindbergh, who lost a child to a kidnapping, murder, horrible loss for them, their first child. She said, if suffering alone taught, all the world would be wise. It's not enough to suffer. We need to allow God to consecrate our affliction for our gain, and that is our choice. And we can deny Him the ability to consecrate our pain. Why would we do it? Why would we do it? I also will mention that we talked about being anti-fragile. That is how we are created by our Heavenly Father, to grow under duress.

We do not grow when we're not lifting weight or dealing with opposition. It's impossible. There's no way to build muscle without stressing it. If we want nothing out of this life, then we can try to avoid all the pain and all the sorrow. It's not possible anyway. It's a vain effort to try to think that comfort is the goal. It is not. As our prophet reminds us, God is not interested in our comfort, but in our growth and progress. That is the plan. And is there no other way? No, there is no other way. I've said this before, there are some kinds of faith that can only grow in the dark. I want that faith. I want all of it. I want all that God can make of me.

I will mention again this beautiful statement by Neal Maxwell, that sorrow enlarges the heart. I remember hearing that in conference when he said it and wondering, is that how that works? And I did think that happiness does not swell our hearts. It's fun. Happiness feels great, but it does not stretch us. It's sorrow that stretches us. You don't realize how great our capacity can be for feeling emotion until your heart breaks, until you are feeling so much hurt, pain, loss, sorrow, and you're still breathing. You can't even imagine, like, how am I still breathing when I feel this much? That's what stretches our heart. So back to Back to Maxwell, sorrow enlarges the heart, giving place later, expanded space for joy. And this is another of Lehi's great messages.

Adam felt that men might be and men are, that they might have joy. And ultimately, that is what God consecrates for our gain. It's all that we might then have a fullness of joy that will last for eternity and will never end and never be diminished, but continue into forever. I have a nice quote here that a dear friend shared with me. It's from The God Who Weeps by Tarot and Fiona Gibbons. In the garden story, good and evil are found on the same tree, not in separate orchards. Good and evil give meaning and definition to each other. If God, and this speaks to the opposition as well that Lehi talks about, so I'm kind of overlapping here a little bit. If God, like us, is susceptible to immense pain, he is, like us, the greater in his capacity for happiness. The presence of such pain serves the larger purpose of God's master plan, which is to maximize

the capacity for joy, or in other words, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of men. He can no more foster those ends in the absence of suffering and evil than one could find the traction to run or the breath to sing in the vacuum of space. God does not instigate pain or suffering, but he can weave it into his purposes. God's power rests not on totalizing omnipotence, but on his ability to alchemize suffering, tragedy, and loss into wisdom, understanding, and joy. I love that word alchemy, and I have used it before in my discussion of this topic in ancient history. There were a lot of efforts made to turn lead into gold.

Many people thought they could find this magic formula that would make them rich, as they could take this cheap substance and turn it into something so precious. But God is the alchemist, and he can take all the lead in our lives, all the worst parts of our lives, and he can consecrate it for our gain. He can alchemize it into gold. He makes it joy. He makes it the fullness of our potential. He makes it the magnification of who we are meant to be. There is no other way. And we do if we want to. We need to submit to it, not to fight, not to rage, not to be angry, not even to be overly hurt. And don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about repressing or denying our feelings. We need to understand the journey. It's going to be hard. It's going to be painful. But we can either resist it or we can submit. I think so much of that beautiful part in Mosiah 3.19.

The natural man is the enemy to God. I'm going to skip forward to unless he is willing to put off the natural man and become a saint through the atonement of Jesus Christ. Submissive is the first word. Submissive, meek, patient, humble, full of love, and willing again to submit to all things that the Father seeth fit to inflict upon him. Now, inflict is not a pleasant word. I think it has been suggested that we could substitute that perhaps for allow, that the Father seeth fit to allow to come. Because I do believe that God does not hurt us, but He created the plan that does. I'm okay with the fact that the Father seeth fit to inflict upon us this plan, which is not comfortable, but is perfectly,

with His superior intelligence, his supreme intelligence, perfectly designed to bring us to a place where we can be full of joy forever. Lili, a lot of our listeners already know this, and I think you do as well. We put together a compilation of quotes from our Old Testament episodes. You can get it on our website followhim.co it's free you can get a pdf of it and if you go to page 70 or 71 here's lily anderson i'm going to quote you back to you i think it's amazing and this happens in my life as well that us from the past can often we don't we don't realize that we're teaching us in the future because it's almost as if you were speaking to yourself and where you are now and to all of us.

We are here to become like the Savior himself. Where do we think that's going to happen? At the spa? I remember you saying that. That is why life is unfair because that is what will give us the opportunity to become like him. And it says the Lord was with Joseph. This is from that episode. God is not with Joseph because he likes him better than others. God doesn't do that. He is no respecter of persons. So why then was the Lord with Joseph? The only answer is because Joseph was with the Lord. Joseph chose the Lord again and again.

He keeps choosing God after all his unjust circumstances and trials and difficulties. He uses his agency every time to choose him. And when we choose God, even in our trials and difficulties, we receive this amazing blessing too. God will be with us. Again, right out of this compilation, Lily. And again, I want people to go have this. You can have this yourself.

Followhim.co. You can have this PDF and these amazing things that Lily and our other guests have said. Lily, it's just so touching to me that you gave that lesson two years ago. And here you are in such a difficult place. John, what would you say? It's like she taught us the lesson and now she's teaching us the lesson again through experience. Yeah. And it's making those words leap off the page.

Right. Jacob, you know the greatness of God. And if you know that, and if you know the love of God, then you know he will consecrate those afflictions for your gain. Wow. So those leap off the page for me now, that verse two. Thank you, Lily. I don't know how people do it without the Lord. I don't know. And I don't want to. I do want all to come unto him because there is respite. There is peace in the midst of the storm. The temple is such a wonderful place to be when we're in pain. God can consecrate any location for us as a temporary sacred spot if we invite him in. But when we can, going to the

temple is a joy. I'm so grateful for all that he offers us to get through these tough times, to find him in our extremity. He's there. We just need to embrace him and trust him. I can't emphasize that enough. It is trusting him that his ways are greater. If we saw what he sees, we would choose what happens. And I do believe that. I believe that. And I believe that he has given me so many impressions that have helped to explain. And that is so generous. He is a generous God. Why do we ever turn away?

I want to jump into opposition here for a moment because opposition related in some respects, but there's a very different part here that Lehi talks about good and evil and opposition and as a contrast and why? Because it sets up agency. It's about being enticed by the one and the other so that we can exercise our choice. And the further we go in the gospel, I think we understand just again, like how amazing this gift of agency is, how it is the only thing that gives meaning to life and to eternity is to choose what we want and to recognize that we can't blame anybody else for where we end up. Now, President Oaks got a lot of negative response to his last conference talk on the three realms and the three kingdoms that

puts accountability squarely on each one of us, that we choose. Now, that's right. I do have a book called Choosing Glory and the podcast. To me, that is what we are doing every day. We are choosing which glory we are preparing for. It's our choice. God is not going to assign us or condemn us. It is our choice. What we want is what we get. And he has said this, Alma 29, the oath that I were an angel, right? And then, but behold, I'm a man and do sin to my wish for I ought to be content with the things that the Lord hath allotted me. Why? Because I know that God granteth unto men according to their desire. Now, I want to say something about the fall. A lot of misunderstanding about that too. And we have such great revelation in our latter day that I hope people have made

use of it. President Oaks gave a wonderful speech about how it was not a sin that Adam and Eve partook of the fruit. It was a transgression. They were not rebellious. They were not looking to do evil. They were addressing a conundrum that was placed before them for a very purposeful intent, which was essential to God's plan and essential to us. God, the amazing engineer, never doubt him. He set it up so that we, through the authorization that we gave to Adam and Eve in the pre-earth life, this is how I see it. I'm sure in that pre-earth council, whom shall I send? Christ, all of that wonderful, beautiful stuff that set up the atonement through this wonderful God of ours, our Savior and Lord. And then I think a part of that council was like, all right, we're going to start with Adam and Eve. Who will authorize them to eat the fruit? It had to be our choice. We're back to agency. It had to be our choice to leave his presence and come into this fallen world so that we could be enticed by opposite forces, the good and the evil, and demonstrate our desires in the only way that could happen, by having the choice of good

and evil before us all the time. And by choosing the good, we could get credit for it. No compulsion. You can do what's wrong and you can get away with it for a while in this world. And in fact, Lehi says that. What does he say right here? This is verse 21 of chapter 2. The days of the children of men were prolonged according to the will of God that they might repent while in the flesh. This is exactly what he's saying. The days of men were prolonged.

What does that mean? They didn't die right after they ate the fruit. They were given a mortal life that lasted many years. Given a mortal life that was prolonged without immediate consequence for sin. And why? So that we could repent and get credit for it. What would happen if every time we did what was right, we got an immediate blessing. Every time we did what was wrong, we got an immediate punishment.

There would really be no agency because any idiot can keep their hand off an electrified fence. And does that confer virtue on us? Not at all. Not one whit. The only thing that confers virtue and gives us a chance to repent and get credit for it is choosing when there is another choice without an immediate consequence. We are enticed by evil, but we are also enticed by God. And we choose, where is my heart? Where is my mind? Where is my future? Sure, we can either think that way or we can go with the eat, drink, and be merry, the FOMO, the YOLO, all of those crazy things that God has allowed to entice us so that there is meaning in our lives, not compulsion. You do you is not a scriptural phrase.

That is not a scriptural phrase. This is from the book of Moses, chapter 4. And it's a really nice little insight into what happened at the fall. The serpent was more subtle. This is chapter 4 of Moses, verse 5. The serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field. Verse 6, Satan put it into the heart of the serpent, for he had drawn away many after him. And he sought also to beguile Eve, for he knew not the mind of God, wherefore he

sought to destroy the world. I remember pondering this verse when I was an undergrad, because I didn't get why those things were connected. He knew not the mind of God, which we have read about Laman and Lemuel. They didn't understand God. But this is the same kind of phrase, for he knew not the mind of God, wherefore, and that word kind of puzzled me because it's a conjunction. That puts these two thoughts together, and I didn't understand it. Wherefore, he sought to destroy the world. He's joining those two things together. He knew not the mind of God, he sought to destroy the world fruit, Satan was there saying, yes, I've done it. I've destroyed the world.

And at exactly the same moment, God was saying, check. Through Adam and Eve said, let us leave the garden so that we can have our days prolonged, as Lehi says, and be able to repent and get credit for it because it was not compelled, because there is the enticement of evil. And if we are foolish, we fall for it. We fall for it because it's attractive. And at Madison Avenue, makes billions of fall for it. We fall for it because it's attractive. And at Madison Avenue, makes billions of dollars selling it. And people lap it up all the time with thinking that they

have found the meaning to life and it's empty. There's no joy. There's pleasure. Righteousness is not righteousness unless it's chosen. We had Daniel Peterson on the podcast once, and I had a couple of cassette tapes, two cassettes, Understanding Islam. He used a phrase in there. I thought, oh, I love that. He said, if you allow freedom, some immorality will result. He was talking about certain traditions and so forth that keep males and females separate during their youth completely. He said, if you allow freedom, some immorality will result, but the other possible result is freely chosen virtue, which is a very good thing. Then he said, it's a better thing to choose the right when you can choose the wrong than to choose the right because you have no

other options. I thought it was a very great way to explain why opposition in all things. This idea of freely choosing virtue. Oh, I love that idea. I can choose the wrong, but I can freely choose virtue. Now, I am going to make a caution here. A lot of parents conflate agency with freedom. And they think that they can take away their children's agency if they impose rules with consequences. And that is, again, one of Satan's great deceptions and counterfeits. God gives us laws. If that were true, then the God who gave us agency took them away when he gave us the commandments. That's not true. And parents have the same pattern that we give those standards to our children. We can have expectations, we can have family rules, and we can have consequences, just as God does. But we have to remember that freedom is a negotiable commodity. And when our children are so dependent on us, we absolutely have a right to say, look, while we are paying the bills and providing for you, we are going to protect you by giving you some

laws with some consequences. And that will help you to harness the natural man. If you accept our authority and become consistently obedient, and we will not abuse that authority if we're doing it right, but when we will teach them the principles behind them, which God does, we're following that parenting pattern, then we can definitely insist on compliance and have appropriate consequences when they're violated. And it is not an assault on agency. Agency cannot be taken away. I can worship God or not.

Our children will always have that. We are making a very serious mistake when we think that I'm going to impose on my children's agency if I have consequences to misbehavior. That is foolish. Don't go there. Go listen to the Daniel episode. We talked a lot about parenting. President Oaks made a wonderful speech back when he was in the quorum, weightier matters of the law. It's such a great speech at BYU in a devotional address. And he talks really about the importance of agency not being conflated with freedom, all of this really wonderful stuff there. I'm just going to reference it because we got to go on. But I will say, of course, Boyd K. Packer's wonderful speech,

also our moral environment, agency is not free, because there are consequences. And we don't even hear our brethren say free agency, because it's really a misnomer. It's moral agency because there are consequences. Let's talk about a couple of other things that I think are really important. There's a little addiction scripture in 2 Nephi that this is my husband called it the addiction scripture. Here it is in 2 Nephi verse 26, because they are redeemed from the fall, they become free forever, knowing good from evil to act for themselves, you know, because that they are redeemed from the fall, they become free forever, knowing good from evil to act for themselves, you know, enticed by the one, enticed by the other, and not be acted

upon. I'm going to come back to that. Save it be by the punishment of the law of the great and last state. And then here's the scripture mastery, verse 27, wherefore men are free according to the flesh and all things are given them which are expedient unto man, and they are free to choose liberty in the eternal life. This is why we have lands of liberty, because it doesn't constrain choice. All of that is really important to discover as we study. Free to choose liberty and eternal life through the great mediator of all men, because it is only through Christ, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and

power of the devil, for he seeketh that all men might be miserable unto himself. Never forget that. All these wiles of Satan are just about misery. That's what he wants. He is our enemy, has always been, and will always be. Now, my sons, I would that you would look to the great mediator, hearken to his commandments, be faithful, choose eternal life according to the will of his Holy Spirit. Here's the addiction scripture. Verse 29, and not choose eternal death according to the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein. Now, we skip over this a lot because there's some really wonderful words that we just read that sometimes kind of take up all the space in our thoughts, but this is important too. Not choose eternal death according to the will of the flesh and the space in our thoughts, but this is important too. Not choose eternal death according to the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein. Now, we are not

of the nature or the doctrine to say that the body is evil. We don't do that. We know the body is a great gift and that God himself is an embodied spirit, spirit and flesh. Why are we saying here the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein? It's because he's talking about the natural man appetites. There is trouble in the flesh. Here comes that precious spirit. They come into this world and get a body and become a living soul. Now they are spirit and flesh. And our doctrine is unique in that we talk about the dual nature. That's what David and McKay used to call it, the dual nature of man, both spirit and flesh. And we know this is the divine design that will then mean a literal resurrection where we can become a spirit and soul irrevocably bound together for eternity.

This is amazing because the experience of joy can only happen that way and to the extent that we have prepared for it. But what is this evil in the flesh? It's the appetites, the desires, appetites, passions, the carnal, sensual, devilish. Because here comes this flesh. I mean, prior to a spirit, I remember before my babies were born, they are doing gymnastics in the womb, you know, and sometimes you could just watch them like somersaults and see this. It's extraordinary, the miracle.

But then I sometimes would think you don't know what it's like to be hungry yet or thirsty or alone or without someone embracing you in the womb. You don't know what it's like to have appetites that are not always met immediately. You don't know what that is, but you will. As soon as you're born, that separation is going to hit like a hammer and all the appetites of the flesh no longer with an umbilical cord to take care of it before you even think it. Now

you have to depend on somebody to feed you or hold you or hug you or clean you up when you're messy and to comfort you. This is going to be different and you're going to have these appetites. And if you let the appetites, now, of course, we feed the appetites of a child. Of course we do because they are dependent and we are responsible. But as they get older, if we have any census parents, we try to help them not be creatures of immediate appetite and immediate gratification. I mean, they're going to have the appetites, but not immediate gratification. It's like, wait for a minute. Mom has her hands full, but as soon as I put this down, I will come. And yes, they're going to be bored because they're little kids. Give them a piece of paper to write

on, but ask them after church, who can remember what color the bishop's tie was? Who can remember what the opening song was? Can anybody sing a verse of that? And of course, age appropriate and age incremental. Give the little ones a chance to answer the simple questions and remind them in church, hey, make sure you watch for this so that we can talk about it after. And we stretch the spirit over the flesh so that it realizes I can invest in delayed gratification. I can harness my natural man and it will be good for me. And how can the spirit even enter into our children and witness the truth of what we're trying to teach them if they are constantly being gratified by that fulfillment of their appetites? Because they have a device right there. Now it's always like, well, let's put the movie on.

Let's put this on. Let's stimulate. Let's keep feeding those appetites. And then we expect them to learn fractions? What are we doing with our children? They are in a world of sensory stimulus. And it is constant. It's always available.

And sometimes we abet that stimulus. We make it more available. Please, brothers and sisters, think about where your children are in terms of being able to delay the fulfillment of their appetites. I love what you've done with verse 29. I wrote in my margin, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. The goal is to try to get our spirit to be in charge of our body because our spirit knows better. I also love the last statement in verse 27, the last phrase. We've heard it said that perhaps if we were to say God had a mission statement, it might be Moses 1339, bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. And this might be Satan's.

He seeketh that all men, all women might be miserable like unto himself. That's excellent, John. That's it. Lily, I've frequently taken my children to the temptations of Jesus. His very first temptation, according to Matthew, is turn those stones into bread.

You know you want it right now. You can do it. You can do it. So do it. And he won't. He won't do it. And it's not like eating is bad. There's nothing wrong with eating. But he said, no, I have made a personal commitment. I can withhold my desires until later. That's fasting your spirit in charge of your body. Fast Sunday is a crucial practice. Hey, can you wait? Can you stretch your spirit over your flesh? Can you fast? Let's practice until you get better. And think of the power that God can give us if we can harness those appetites. Otherwise, he can't trust us with his power because we're going to fall for the first Snickers bar that somebody hands us. Two things. Phones and fasting first have to be

done by the parent. If you're going to ask your kids to do it, you've got to do it. I'm preaching to myself here. And then second, my friend Doug, he said the other day, he said, a phone is the closest thing you're probably going to get to a Urim and Thummim in your life. You have access to all information, but it used to be, if you had a question, you just didn't get it answered. But now I can get almost any question I have, information I want, I can get it answered. How well can I use this small Urim and Thummim that I'm given? Because why would the Lord give me a better one? It is a miracle tool. But Satan has entered in and said, I can entice through this to good or evil. And sadly, our children who come as little natural men and women, that's who they are.

They are creatures of appetite. They have this new body that is full of appetites and the evil which is therein. And it is our job as parents to help them harness those appetites. And so many parents abdicate that responsibility because it's hard to do. I just will give in because I don't want to fight. I'll give in because I don't want my kid to have a tantrum in the store. And they give in and give in and give in, and they abdicate their responsibility to help that child recognize that delayed gratification and self-control are the tickets to the terrestrial. We're only talking terrestrial.

But the celestial can't even be built, can't even begin to be constructed until our kids are terrestrial. But the celestial can't even be built, can't even begin to be constructed until our kids are terrestrial. And we're going to turn them loose in the world with Satan raging? I saw a cartoon once, and this mom was at a computer, and she yelled, it's going to be cereal again tonight, kids. This candy isn't going to crush itself. Exactly right. Like, lead out. Don't push from behind. Another phrase here that I really, really think is so important, and it's back in verse 26, talking about how we are redeemed from the fall to become free forever, knowing good from evil. And it's this phrase right here, to act for themselves and not to be acted upon. This is the non-victim Christian part. I have a whole PowerPoint here that I'm not

going to be able to get to, that I have principles that are going to be in this book that is partially written. I meant to have it done at the end of last year, but for obvious reasons, that didn't happen. I think this year it will be available. And if people are interested, they can go to my podcast or my website and see when the book is available, because it is really important for us to learn to act and not be acted upon. When I say to be acted upon, I'm talking about chronic victimization, like the abused partner, like it could be a battered wife, or it could be an abused husband, or it could be that our parents were abusive, or it could be that our job takes advantage of us or exploits us. It could be our church callings that become a little over demanding. You know,

you might be out there in Timbuktu, where there are not too many people who say yes to a calling because there are not even that many people around. So you have five callings, and you're starting to feel a little resentful, and then they ask you to youth conference and we feel acted upon. And we feel like we don't have a choice because I need to be a good person and just keep saying yes, more, more, more. This is so damaging to marriages. I had an opportunity once to visit with Elder Ballard. It was a sweet experience.

I thought I'd have about 15 minutes. We had about an hour and a half. And he asked me a lot of questions about my thoughts on some things. Blessed man, wonderful man that he was. It was a really great experience. And one thing he asked me, if you could tell women of the church something, what would you say? And I said, I would tell them to become non-victim Christians. I would help them establish healthy boundaries so that they are not acted upon. And we would not just save the women, we would save many of their husbands. Because if we think that charity means I must tolerate abuse, we are mistaken. That is being acted upon. And we are not sent to be acted upon, we are sent to act. Now not to act in a victimizing way, and too often

that's the trouble. We think there are only two choices. So we take it and we take it and we take it and then we get really sick of it and we dish it out. Now I'm going to make you feel what I feel and everybody's going to hell because that is not the answer. I'm not the victim. I'll be the victimizer now. That's right. That's right. If I have to be one of them, I'll be the victimizer or they just stay in that victim mode until they are ready to collapse. Sometimes they even leave in that victim mode until they are ready to collapse. Sometimes they even leave the church because they think if this is what God expects of me, that I just have to lie down on the road and let the steamroller run over me every time in order to be a Christian. I can't do it. They throw out the baby with the bathwater and they

don't just leave the marriage or the relationship. They leave the church. But this is not what God wants. We are to act and not to be acted upon. Charity is not indulging sin. How is that charity? We're subsidizing somebody else's self-destruction and their destruction of us or the children? Absolutely not. I mean, it's so important. I've seen it save marriages. You learn how to act, not in a victimizing way, in a non-victim Christian way. You're not dishing it out, but you're not taking it either. You learn how to establish healthy, appropriate Christian boundaries where you act as an agent. I have done a podcast on this in Choosing Glory, section 98, back in the DNC days. In fact, the reason that I started halfway through the year is because I didn't want

to miss the chance about talking about section 98. This is Christ telling us how to be non-victim Christians. There's more to that. There are lots of applications. It's not just about marriage. It is about other family relationships. It's about other ways that we can be exploited by, like I said, even organizations or institutions that we're involved with, certainly our jobs. But if we have good boundaries, we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. We become better agents. Non-victim Christians, I promise you, this is God-given information, and it will bless our lives. Now, let's talk for a minute about the grace of Christ.

Lehi uses the word, and I love this name, you know, the Holy Messiah. Our Holy Messiah, who is full, he says, of grace and truth. I think that we have a tendency in the church sometimes to limit grace, not intentionally, not in a desire to be less or mistaken. We do so well with works. Let me just say that, of course, faith without works are dead, as James taught us in the New Testament just last year. And we know this, that if we are coming to Christ, there are ways that that shows in our life. If I love him, I keep his commandments because I am his. I mean, it all comes together, but it's because I'm his. I am the holy ones. I have given myself to him. I have let my will, as Christ did, be swallowed up in the will of the Father. I am not trying to steer my own ship. I have turned the tiller over because I trust him.

And yes, the works will flow from that, but not because my works save me. In fact, Adam Miller, in his book, Original Grace, he talks about how there is another way to translate that wonderful verse that Nephi will give us here a little bit further in 2 Nephi about it is by grace that you're saved after all you can do and how we sometimes really distort that to mean that I have to do everything. And then at the last minute, Christ makes up the difference. Well, that's really not it. And in fact, his alternate interpretation, as you know, is in spite of all we can do. That by grace we are saved. In other words, we could never do what would be required to lift us from where we are to where he invites us to be. It is his grace.

It is the holy Messiah, his grace and truth only that can do that. All our reliance is in Christ. If we are gaining wisdom, we fall before him and let him be our everything. I want to share this because this touched me so much from Corrie Ten Boom's story, The Hiding Place. Corrie Ten Boom and her family, Dutch family, these people knew how to receive Christ and then, yes, manifest him in their lives through their works because they believed in the salvation that he offered. This is early in the story where her aunt, who had, I think, diabetes, but I forget the details, Corrie was given the doctor's assignment to take a certain serum and every Friday to put it on the stove and stir it because when it turned black, that would mean her aunt had three weeks or less to live.

She was tasked with doing that every Friday. This Friday, she does it and like a normal, but then this time it turned black. And she had been doing this for a long time. And this was the first time and she knew it was bad news. So she takes it to her father. Her father says, check with the doctor. She has to wait in the waiting room. The doctor says, yes, you need to let her know that she has very little time left. The family decides to all go together. She all go up to tell the aunt that this is going to be the end. The father says, though I will speak the necessary words, perhaps she will take heart from all she has accomplished. Our little procession filed up the steps to taunt John's rooms. And as she saw the number of people entering the room, she laid down her pen.

She looked from one face to another until she came to mine and gave a little gasp of comprehension. This was Friday morning, and I had not yet come with the results of the test. My dear sister-in-law, Father began gently, there is a joyous journey which each of God's children sooner or later sets out on. And John's, some must go to their father empty-handed, but you will run to him with your hands full. And then the family chimes in. All your clubs, your writings. She was a Christian woman who did lots of charities and good works, your writings, the funds you've raised, your talks, but our well-meant words were useless. In front of us, the proud face crumpled. Tante John's put her hands over her eyes and began to cry. Empty. Empty. she choked at last through her tears. How can we bring anything to God?

What does he care for our little tricks and trinkets? And then as we listened in disbelief, she lowered her hands and with tears coursing down her face, whispered, Dear Jesus, I thank you that we must come with empty hands. I thank you that you have done all, all on the cross, and that all we need in life or death is to be sure of this. Mama threw her arms around her and they clung together, but I stood rooted to the spot, knowing I had seen a mystery. Brothers and sisters, he has done all for us in the garden and on the cross. It is all accomplished. As he said, it is finished. Salvation, as Lehi tells us, is free. It's free. We have to receive it if we want it. It's there. It's free. Christ has done all for us. It is amazing grace. It is without limit. Christ will lift us and take us all the way to joint airship with him. I cannot

believe the generosity of that, and yet I do, because he is good. There's a gospel song in the rock kind of gospel stuff that talks about the reckless love of God. I like it. It's not really reckless, but I love what that implies. How does he dare love people as imperfect as his children? But of course he does. And that love is perfect. And through his son, it is manifest to us in the opportunity to have all that there is and there is no more, as Elder Maxwell reminded us. There's nothing that God doesn't offer if we receive His Son, if we come to Christ, if we follow him. And of course, good works will follow, not because it saves us, not because we have to sweat and strain and become anxious about, am I good enough? Because we're not. But because he is enough, I am enough in him. He is our holy Messiah. He is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. He is our Lord, God, Redeemer, Savior, Advocate with the Father. He will bring us home if we let him.

I know when the Spirit is the strongest because I don't want to leave. Lily, this has been just a wonderful day. I don't want it to end. These chapters, 2nd, 5th, 1st, and 2nd, could be a lifetime of study. What does that tell you about the Book of Mormon? And the things you've shown us today have been just really life-changing, inspiring. Like, I want to live differently. I think that's a lot of the purpose of the book

and the Holy Ghost is to inspire and say, you can get on a better course, even than the one you're on, which is a good one. A dear sister in our ward years ago gave a sermon on two words in 2 Nephi 2, verse 6. Her name's Nancy. She's in the tap choir. She gave a talk called Redemption Cometh.

Took those two words, a sermon and a sentence, gave a whole talk on that. And we could have taken so much more time, but that was beautiful what you did. And Lily, coming from where you are right now in your backstory, that was really powerful. I do testify of Jesus Christ and our loving Heavenly Father. I know of their love. I choose to feel it in the wilderness. It doesn't have to be a wilderness. It's a stretching ground. It's a weight room.

And it's meant to be consecrated for our good. I'm so grateful. I love him. I love what he has done for us. We at Follow Him love Lily Anderson. I think all of our listeners can unite with us in prayers as you navigate this change in your life with Chris now. What a joy. Men are that they might have joy and that we had that today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorenson, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorenson. And we always remember our founder, Steve Sorenson. We hope you'll join us next week. We're going to continue in 2 Nephi on Follow Him.

Before you skip to the next episode, I have some important information. This episode's transcript and show notes are available on our website, followhim.co. That's followhim.co. On our website, you'll also find our two books, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament and Finding Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Both books are full of short and powerful quotes and insights from all our episodes from the Old and New Testaments. The digital copies of these books are absolutely free. You can watch the podcast on YouTube.

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