followHIM - 2 Nephi 20-25 Part 1 • Dr. Camille F. Olson • Mar 4 - Mar 10 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: February 28, 2024

Are Nephi and Isaiah speaking to their day or ours? Dr. Camille Fronk Olson explores the historical context of Assyria and Babylon to address the need for trust in Jesus Christ, to follow the Covenant Path, and to prepare for the Second Coming.Show Notes: https://followhim.co/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/BM-10-Dr.-Camille-Fronk-Olson-2-Nephi-20-25-followHIM-Podcast-SHOW-NOTES.pdfYouTube: https://youtu.be/szTVnowktWMInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastFree PDF download of quotes from our New Testament episodes:https://followhim.co/product/finding-jesus-christ-in-the-newtestament-book/Free PDF download of quotes from our Old Testament episodes:https://followhim.co/product/finding-jesus-christ-in-the-old-testament/00:00 Part 1–Dr. Camille Fronk Olson00:43 What to expect this week02:24 Introduction of Dr. Camille Fronk Olson03:09 A warning05:24 Outline of today’s lesson06:39 Historical context10:13 Singing about the Ten Tribes12:21 Wickedness and agency15:15 Justice16:47 2 Nephi 20:12,15 Boasting20:15 “The Destruction of Sennacherib” by Lord Byron24:09 2 Kings 17-25 The Boston Celtics vs Provo High26:13 2 Nephi 20:28-32 Assyria at the gates28:44 Isaiah for Airheads by John Bytheway29:32 2 Nephi 20:18-26 Trees and Gideon34:11 Sennacherib’s return to Assyria36:59 Isaiah’s role38:45 2 Nephi 21 Moroni 41:36 D&C 113 Rod, branch, and grafts45:13 2 Nephi 21:10-13 Ensign49:35 2 Nephi 21:16 The Covenant Path52:38 2 Nephi 22 Psalm of praise55:20 “Trust in the Lord” by Richard G. Scott58:46 2 Nephi 23 Babylon as type of the Second Coming1:01:10 Cyrus: King of kings1:04:02 Herodotus and the destruction of Babylon1:05:45 2 Nephi 24:10 Babylon, Lucifer, and symbolism1:09:18 2 Nephi 24:20-22 Fall of Babylon and Jesus’s return1:12:15 End of Part 1–Dr. Camille Fronk OlsonThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignAnnabelle Sorensen: Creative Project ManagerWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I'm your host. I'm here with my rejoicing co-host, John, by the way. John, we are back in Isaiah at Follow Him. What are you looking forward to? How are you feeling about Isaiah so far? I love this stuff. I'm excited to see where Isaiah speaks of the burden of Babylon. He starts talking to different nations, not just Israel. So that's going to be kind of fun. And then after that, we have Nephi talking about what he just talked about, which is great.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Dr. Hopkin last week made me think, oh, there's just so much. This is not something to be skipped. John, today we are joined by our good friend, Dr. Camille Franck Olson. Camille, what are we looking forward to today as we go through, what, 2 Nephi 20 through 25? Yes, thank you. This is an exciting part of the Isaiah chapters in the Book of Mormon. We'll do the last four of those chapters in this big bulk,

which, as you mentioned, talks about Babylon and Assyria, events that happened before Nephi and just after Nephi was in Jerusalem. That story is really important for understanding where we're going because he likens it to events in the last days. Here's an invitation for us to recognize how we can better prepare and learn from those that went before us. And then with chapter 25, we get the first chapter of Nephi prophesying and teaching based on the inspiration he's had from studying these Isaiah chapters and that we can feel his application for where he's thinking and that help us to reinforce if we're picking up from Isaiah what Nephi hopes we will get from him. These are great chapters. Yeah, it's quite a blessing to have someone read Isaiah to you

before and after they say, look for this, and then we get done. Hey, did you see, did you see this? John, Camille is not new to our podcast. We have had so many wonderful episodes with her. I hope everyone will go back and go find those on our YouTube channel or anywhere you get your podcasts. John, introduce her to maybe the handful of those who haven't heard of Camille. We're so happy to have sister Camille Frank Olson back with us.

She's from Tremont, Utah. She served her mission in Toulouse, France. She's married to Paul F. Olson. She was a professor at BYU and a dean of students at LDS Business College. This is cool, Hank. She received a PhD in sociology of the Middle East, a master's degree in ancient Near Eastern studies, and a bachelor's in education. And her areas of expertise include Palestinian families, women in the scriptures.

I know I've got a couple of books by her about women in the Old Testament and New Testament, the early Christian church, and Near Eastern studies. And we're really happy to have her back. Thanks for joining us again, Camille. Thank you. Nice to be back. We love having you. Camille, let me read the introduction from the manual, and then let's jump in.

It says this, The writings of Isaiah include strong warnings, but they also offer hope and joy. This is one reason Nephi included them in his record. And then they quote Nephi here, 2 Nephi 11. I write some of the words of Isaiah, he said, that whoso shall see these words may lift up their hearts and rejoice. In a sense, the invitation to read Isaiah's writings is an invitation to rejoice. You can take delight as Nephi did in Isaiah's prophecies about the gathering of Israel, the coming of the Messiah and the peace promised to the righteous. You can rejoice to live in the prophesied day when the Lord has set up an enzyme for

the nations and assembles the outcasts of Israel. When you thirst after righteousness, you can with joy draw water out of the wells of salvation. In other words, you can rejoice in Christ. What a wonderful opening paragraph to these chapters, Camille. Where should we start? All right. I'd just like to start mentioning, it's a pet peeve of mine when we study the Isaiah chapters in the Book of Mormon.

And I bring it up because it's a warning of why we never get to the Isaiah chapters really and appreciate them. My experience has been in whatever class I'm in, when we study this, we turn to chapter 25 of 2 Nephi and spend the entire time talking about the keys for understanding Isaiah that Nephi gives to us. And we talk about to know the prophesying about the Jews. And we go on like we understand so much about the prophesying about the Jews when even Nephi doesn't tell us that, saying, I'm not going to go through that. But we can spend a lot of time talking about dualism and parallelism and poetry. And then you say, when we get to, you have to have a testimony of Jesus. You come away with

the idea, if I've got a testimony of Jesus and I know about all these things, I should be able to open these pages and just understand. And we dismiss class. People are sent home to study Isaiah and they open it up and they go, this is hard and it doesn't make any sense as much as before. Right. And what have we done? The same thing. So that is a pet peeve. We need to avoid that so that we can spend time in the Isaiah chapters and actually hear Isaiah's voice. I find it helpful that Nephi seems to appreciate particularly the themes that Isaiah writes about

that include the coming of Christ, second, the scattering of Israel, and along with that, that shows the greatest sin, it seems like, or the common sin that's bringing them down is pride, and pride comes over time and time again. And as a result of their Israel's pride, they are scattered. And then the gathering and how often we will recognize and we'll see it over and over again, the gathering follows the same way that Nephi and Lehi have been defining gathering in the Book of Mormon as coming to a true knowledge of the Redeemer. And then finally, the ultimate victory of the Lord and the judgment of the wicked, and that millennial day and the last days. But we'll see him go in and out with these.

That helps us to underscore that he cares about us finding the Savior and following him. We got to do the follow him here. That's a major, major theme in these chapters. For me, the most helpful way to start breaking through some of the difficult passages is knowing more of the history. I don't want to go through a whole lot, but I think, to me, it opened it up. Now, I love history and the history of this time period back there, ancient Near East. As we look in chapter 20, and we're getting started in this, we see from the chapter heading, The Destruction of Assyria. keep in mind that when Assyria was the great power of the ancient Near East, it was right smack dab in the middle of Isaiah's term as a prophet. These were contemporary events for him. He saw this happen firsthand. Events from like 740 to 701 BC, we will see here. And look at verse 2 of chapter

20. Here you see evidence of Israel's sin. And I say sin that God counts very seriously. To turn away the needy from judgment, to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey and that they may rob the fatherless. With this pride, it seems like Israel has ignored the most vulnerable in their numbers. And if there's anything we learn in scripture, reading it through the Old Testament, the New Testament, we recognize how seriously the Lord looks upon the vulnerable and how much he cares for them and he sees them. And it's one of the primary signs of being prideful is that we ignore or take advantage of the vulnerable. What does he say? Grind the faces of the poor.

Yes, it is serious. And think about James, where James says true religion and undefiled is when we visit and care for the fatherless and the widows. It's everywhere. So we have Israel in this state, and Isaiah, you can hear in the background, is preaching to them and warning them. In the meantime, here is Assyria. Now, real briefly, Assyria is to the east. It's in the area that we would say northern Iraq today. Nineveh was the capital. And they've been conquering all these peoples. And they come to Israel. And I'm sure you've talked about this as you looked at some of the earlier chapters. But the northern kingdom, Israel, thinks they can make a pact with Syria that's straight north of them, and they can defeat the Assyrians. The prophets are saying, don't do it,

don't do it. And yet they think, we are tough, we are stronger, together we can do it. And the Assyrians come right in. The Assyrians come in and take Israel and scatter them throughout all of their lands. Very quickly, the Israelites from the Northern Kingdom lose their identity as the House of Israel, lost tribes of Israel. I frequently tell my students, Camille, you've sung about these 10 tribes, and they, no, I haven't.

And I say, we believe in the literal gathering of Israel and the restoration of the 10 tribes. And all of a sudden they start to sing that Zion, the new Jerusalem. They're like, I have sung about them. This is the 10 tribes we're talking about, this northern kingdom. This is it. And it was Isaiah's day. And this is very much in his mind. Look what he says in verse three. And what will ye do in the day of visitation and in the desolation, which shall come from far? This is the Assyrians. What are you going to do when these Assyrians start coming to you? Verse four, without me, they shall bow down under the prisoners. They shall fall under the slain. That's quite an imagery

there. You just see piles of the slain. For all this, his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still. I think we have a tendency to want to read that in a way that we see the mercy of the Lord, that no matter how wicked we are, he's still willing to bring us back. But from the Hebrew and the context of what Isaiah is saying is, watch out, Israel. No, it's a hand of chastisement. You turn from me. You ignored the warnings. He says in now verse 5, talking about the Assyrians, look at verse 6.

I will send him against a hypocritical nation. I will send the Assyrians against Israel, who's hypocritical, because what is Israel doing? Claiming to be disciples of Jehovah, and yet they ignore the very ones that he's asked them to look out for. They ignore his prophets. He calls them hypocritical. There's a tendency we might think that, oh, the Lord has chosen Assyria to humble the Israelites. Therefore, he should be rewarding the Assyrians. How often does the Lord use the wicked to punish the wicked? And I think here's it, but we're going to find out that Assyrians will be punished also. Can I just read a quote? And I think this is helpful for a lot of situations when we read

in scripture, something that it seemed like is prophesied, where someone does something wicked, and the Lord is saying, yep, I told you that was going to happen. And we might think, oh, that's what God wanted him to do. He sent those Assyrians. God doesn't make the Assyrians wicked here. Here's a quote from Joseph Fielding Smith. It's Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1, page 61. He said, no person was foreordained or appointed to sin or to perform a mission of evil. Let me read that again. No person was foreordained or appointed to sin or to perform a mission of evil. No person is ever predestined to salvation or damnation. Every person has agency. And he gives two examples. Cain was promised by the Lord that if he would do well, he would be accepted. Judas Iscariot had his agency enacted upon it. No pressure was brought to bear on him to cause him to betray the Lord.

But he was led by Lucifer. Now get this. If men were appointed to sin and betray their brethren, then justice could not demand that they be punished for sin and betrayal when they are guilty. In other words, they should be getting some great reward in heaven for doing something so evil. And he goes, no, he does use the wicked. He said, go ahead, wicked, you destroy the wicked. And here he allows Assyria to come in and humble Israel. So you follow this down and you watch as now we're hearing the king of Assyria boast in his strength. Camille, could you say it this way, that perhaps Israel keeping their covenants has kept Assyria at bay.

But the moment you lose that covenant, then you lose that protection. All of a sudden Assyria is going, wait, how long has that been there? We're going after that. Would that be a way to teach it? I think that is. And we'll see that in just a few years later.

Because remember, this is just the Northern Kingdom. What happens in the Southern Kingdom, they return to the Lord and return to their covenants. And something very different happens. It's a beautiful lesson. To me, this is one of the most fascinating stories in the Old Testament and greatest miracles that comes out of this that, again, should give us incredible hope and that reason to rejoice. I love what you read in verse two about they turn away the needy from judgment, take away the right of the poor of my people. And I always change judgment because it means a

righteous judgment. It means justice. I have my students change judgment to justice, at least in their minds. Woe unto them that turn away the needy from justice. And then for us, we kind of go, oh, because sometimes judgment has a negative, like God judging, but we're saying, no, this is taking away the needy from justice. And that is the bad thing the Lord is warning them about. That's great clarification. In many ways, it's a better way to translate the Hebrew word, is with justice. The pride is not just in Israel, the northern kingdom, it's in Assyria. And here's the king of the Assyrians who is boasting. You see it here starting in about

verse 8, are not my princes altogether kings? And he goes through all these different cities he's been conquering, including Samaria, that's the capital of Israel, Damascus, that's the capital of Syria. And look at verse 10. As my hand hath founded the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Israel and of Samaria? We've got better gods than they do, and we will excel them as well. You see, he's got his sights now on Jerusalem in the southern kingdom. Isaiah is writing as if he's the king of Assyria. Yes, and you can hear this boasting. This is the way king of Assyria, Shalmaneser V initially is the one who's that king. Later we're going to see it's Sennacherib. But verse 11,

shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols? Oh, I'm coming. I'm coming. Now skip 12. We're going to come back to 12. But here he is again, verse 13. This is still the king of Assyria. By the strength of my hand and by my wisdom, I have done these things, for I am prudent. You notice this I, I, I. We're going to see that a few times in these chapters. Verse 14, And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people, and as one gathereth eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth, and there was none that moved the wing or opened the mouth or peeped.

It's like he's saying, I have come in, and they were sitting like eggs in a nest, and I have picked out each one of them, and no one peeped. No one brought up. We mowed through the entire area. Now, here's the Lord's response. Look back at verse 12. Wherefore, it shall come to pass that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon Mount Zion and upon Jerusalem, it's not over. The northern kingdom has been scattered, but we've got the southern kingdom.

And wait, wait, wait. I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria and the glory of his high looks. You watch how he's going to do that. Look at verse 15. Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? What is he saying? Can you see this now in context? Does the creation boast against the creator? Where does anyone get any strength, any power, And how fast the Lord can whip that axe away. Jehovah saying, look, Assyria, you've been a tool in my hands to humble my people, Israel. And you're looking at me saying, we're greater than Jehovah.

Yes, that's exactly it. That's exactly it. You watch how this is going to happen. Jump down now, that was like 720, 722, northern kingdom is scattered, BC. Now it's 701, Sennacherib is the new king of Assyria, Hezekiah is the king in the southern kingdom, Isaiah is preaching there, and Hezekiah listens. He repents. He brings his people to repent. They gather in together. Remarkable ways of preparation. But the Lord fights the battle.

And what is the most fascinating story, I think, as Assyria marches through and starts even destroying some of the cities in Judah, they come up to Jerusalem. And this is Isaiah 36 and 37, if you want to get Isaiah telling this story. I love it when he says this whole huge army of the Assyrians, just outside of Jerusalem, woke up dead corpses. That's how he describes them. And when they rose, behold, they were all dead corpses that's how he describes them and when they rose behold they were all dead corpses and how do you they were hey what happened i think it makes so clear who fought this battle here jerusalem is not touched at all i got a poem i mean i just think this is such a remarkable miracle and that sends a message what God has done for our fathers. That's one of the purposes of the Book of Mormon, to remind us

about what great things he has done. Lord Byron, a British poet, 1815. Have you heard this poem? It's called The Destruction of Sennacherib. Sennacherib is the king of Assyria. He's the one that's waiting outside Jerusalem. We're going to go get it. And he's sending this army. And he talks in this poem about the widows of Asher. Asher is a city in Assyria. The women are back home waiting for the men to come with all of their loot that they picked up from the prey that they brought home from battle. The spoils. The spoils. Yes.

Okay, listen to this poem. The Assyrian came down like a wolf on the fold, and his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold. And the sheen of their spears was like stars on the sea when the blue waves rolls nightly on deep Galilee. Like the leaves of the forest when summer is green, that host with their banners at sunset was seen. Like the leaves of the forest when autumn hath blown, that host on the morrow lay withered and strown. For the angel of death spread his wings on the blast, and breathed in the face of the foe as he passed, and the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, and their hearts but once heaved, and forever grew still. And there lay the steed with his

nostril all wide, and through it there rolled not the breath of his pride. And the foam of his gasping lay white on the turf, and cold as the spray as the rock beating surf. And there lay the rider, distorted and still, with the dew on his brow and the rust on his mail. And the tents were all silent, the banners alone. The lances unlifted, the trumpet unblown. And the widows of Asher are loud in their wail. And the idols are broke in the temple of Baal. And the might of the Gentile, unsmoked by the sword, hath melted like snow in the glance of the Lord. That's great. That's just beautiful. They just melt like snow. The might of the Gentile, the Assyrian, unsmoked by the sword, no battle, hath melted like snow in the

glance of the Lord. That's what happened. And that's the story of the difference between the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom. Look how Isaiah writes about it here in chapter 20. Verse 16, then shall the Lord of hosts send forth, this is the Assyrians fat ones, they're soldiers. The Assyrians send forth their fat soldiers, meaning all arrayed in purple and gold. But he sends leanness and under his glory, he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire. And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and the Holy One for a flame, and shall burn and shall devour his thorns and his briars in one day. Now, see, if you don't know that story of how the Assyrians went down, you don't appreciate what Isaiah is writing here. His description of this, it happened overnight.

What you've said is absolutely wonderful. We did an episode two years ago with Josh Sears on 2 Kings 17-25, where he talks about this moment that Assyria is coming. They're sending letters into Jerusalem to Hezekiah saying, we are coming to destroy you. And Hezekiah is going to Isaiah. What do I do? What do I do? And Isaiah is saying, you'll be fine. You'll be fine. Trust the Lord. You'll be fine. Look, the Boston Celtics are coming to play Provo high. And if you lose, you're going to die. Would you trust the prophet? Would you trust him when he said, you'll be okay. You'll be okay. And that's what it is. It is putting the trust in the prophet? Would you trust him when he said, you'll be okay? You'll be okay.

And that's what it is. It is putting the trust in the prophet when this incredible empire is coming to conquer. And they've conquered everyone else. You look at a map of the Assyrian empire at its greatest. It covers the ancient Near East, except one polka dot. And that little dot is Jerusalem. I mean, it's incredible the way the Lord protected them. And what that's going to mean by the time we get to Nephi's day, when Lehi and his family are in Jerusalem, and prophets are saying, watch out. It's not Assyria now.

It's Babylon. And yet people in Jerusalem, what are they saying? We got the temple here. God will protect us. Remember what he did back in 701? We are invincible. When Nephi says, neither did my brothers believe that the great city Jerusalem could be destroyed. Could be destroyed.

Could be destroyed. Could be destroyed. And it's this event that did it. A hundred years ago, God wouldn't let the Assyrians. Why would he let the Babylonians? And you think, where do they put their trust? Can you feel the pride here? You see the pride in the Assyrians, but it's the pride in Israel too, that they could say, we did this.

It's us. And because we are the chosen people, God will always protect us no matter what we do. If our readers, like I did as a teenager, got to these verses, they wouldn't know what to do with it. Let's start in 2 Nephi 20 verse 28. And I don't even know if I'm pronouncing these right, which is again, part of what we're up against. Verse 28, and I don't even know if I'm pronouncing these right, which is, again, part of what we're up against. Verse 28, he has come to Aeth. He has passed to Migron, which probably gave them a migraine. At Mishmath, he hath laid up his carriages. They're gone over the passage.

They've taken up their lodging at Geba. Rameth is afraid. Gibeah of Saul is fled. Lift up the voice, O daughter of Galim. Cause it to be heard unto Laish, O poor Anathoth. Madmada is fled. Lift up the voice, O daughter of Galim. Cause it to be heard unto Laish, O poor Anathoth. Madmanda is removed. The inhabitants of Gevim gather themselves to flee. Gee, let's stop right now and have a testimony meeting. I mean, nobody knows what that means, but the footnotes help. Look down below. Footnote 28a says the Assyrian invasion forces introduced in verse 5 progressed toward Jerusalem.

They're told, be not afraid of the Assyrian in verse 24. This is Gerald Lund giving a way to apply this, which is so good. He tried to compare this, and I know not everybody knows the geography of the Wasatch Front, but that's where Elder Lund was when he talked about this. And he said, imagine it like this. We are on Temple Square, okay? North and South Dakota are gone. Montana is gone. Wyoming is gone. Idaho is gone. Washington and Oregon are gone. Nevada is gone. Colorado is gone. All gone to the Assyrians. And Northern Utah is gone. And then the Lord says, be not afraid of the

Assyrians, even if you see them reach Clearfield. And Clearfield falls, don't lose heart. When Syracuse and Layton and Kaysville and Fruit Heights fall, don't lose heart. Do you know where Nob is? Because it says the Lord, he shall remain at Nob that day in verse 32. Nob is a hill just north and west of Jerusalem that gives a military overlook of the city, and the Assyrians reached Nob. If we were to continue that analogy, it's like the Lord saying, yes, even if woods cross and bountiful go down, even north Salt Lake, even if they camp on Capitol Hill, don't you lose faith. Why? Because I have a scourge reserved for them. Here's the most brutal, massive army in the history of the world to that point, camped within eyesight of Jerusalem.

They're shaking their fists. It's not just that North and South Dakota are gone and we're in Salt Lake. We can see them. There are 185,000 of them and we can hear them. John, I've never heard that. Where did you get that? It's from this little known book called Isaiah for Airheads. Let me tell you, back in the day, they used to have a CES symposium at BYU. And this is from Elder Gerald Lund, or I think then it was Brother Gerald Lund, Making the Scriptures Live, Audio Cassette Side A. But that made it so real. And when I teach this, I have a slide of a postcard that has the temple and Capitol Hill in the background. And you can see how close they got. Okay. Right there. Yeah. The way to apply that is, look, the Lord's going to keep his promises.

And sometimes the Lord waits until the last minute, and it's frustrating, but he'll always come through. That's great, John. The geography makes a difference. The history, the geography, just to be able to say, okay, the people at the time Isaiah wrote this, to those that he preached to, they understood because they understood the geography and what was going on there. But this is a different thing for us. Chapter 20, I think it really sets an incredible foundation for this. He likens this army of the Assyrians to trees in a forest. And 18 and 19, he's saying how this fire of the Lord goes through and levels them. Verse 19, the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few. By the time this is over,

there's so few left. It says that even a child may write them. It's kind of the idea that you can count them. There's so few of them. But look what the response is. This is something I go, okay, can we learn from this? Verse 20, it shall come to pass in that day that the remnant of Israel, those that are left and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, saying the same thing, shall no more again stay upon him. Or if you look in the footnote, another word to use for that is rely on. They shall no more rely on him that smote them. It says depend upon. Same idea, right? Depend upon, yeah. But shall stay upon, depend upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel.

It was a major wake-up call. And then look at 21, the remnant shall return. In Hebrew, that word could also be repent, return, repent. Lashuv, the remnant shall return to the Lord, yea, even the remnant of Jacob unto the mighty God. And though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet the remnant shall return, That's in verse 24. Oh, my people that dwelleth in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian. And he gives an example there in verse 26. He likens it to like Gideon and the Midianites. He talks about Midian at the Rock of Oreb. If you look in the footnotes, send you back to Judges. Remember the story of Gideon? He gets an army together to fight against the Midianites,

which were as numerous as grasshoppers. And the army was way too big. And the Lord says, oh, Gideon, you need a smaller army. And he keeps making it smaller until they just have a few hundred. And then remember, they circled around where the Midianites were, and each had a lantern and each had a shofar or trumpet. And they blew them. And the Midianites thought that was a whole army behind each one and they scattered. In that same way, the Lord says, I'll take care of you. It's the same thing that happened with

the Assyrians. They woke up dead corpses. Bottom line, chapter 20, look at verse 32 and 33. You've read this, John. Remain at Nob that day. He shall shake his hand against the mound of the daughter of Zion, the hill of Jerusalem. But verse 33, behold, the Lord of hosts shall lop the bough with terror. You can see that same forest trees metaphor. And the high ones of stature shall be hewn down and the haughty shall be humbled. He brings down the proud. It's interesting how often trees are compared to people in the scriptures. And here the Lord is like this lumberjack that comes down and hews them down.

And one of the things that our listeners may have heard is the legendary cedars of Lebanon was this legendary forest and it became a symbol for pride's very last verse. He shall cut down the thickets of the forest with iron and Lebanon shall fall by a mighty one. So I think he means the cedars of Lebanon there. I think it might be nice to give our listeners that exact verse for the rest of the story and that we're joking about and that is isaiah 37 36 and it says then the angel of the lord went forth and smote in the camp of the assyrians a hundred and four score and five thousand and when they arose early in the morning behold they were all dead corpses. When they arose. Which is like, how do you rise? Fun way to say that.

It is a great way. So Sennacherib, or however we say that, Sennacherib, had to go back alone and report what had happened. And there's an extra biblical source that says, I had the king of Judah locked up as a bird in a cage. But that's all he could write in his journal because he never entered Jerusalem. And so I love we're talking about this backstory, this memory is in the minds of them when Lehi comes out and says, no, the Babylonians are coming this time. And I think that is critical for this, and it's critical to recognize, yes, Lehi and Nephi, this is relatively recent history. And the fact that their mindset, so many of those in Jerusalem are saying, we can never be destroyed.

We can never be invaded. It's never happened. God will always protect us. And how often can we feel that way in life, that because of whatever situation, where we live, or what our faith is, whatever church we belong to, or something that somehow that protects us from any challenges and difficulties, and that we can become prideful ourselves and think that nothing ever could happen. Camille, is this why back in chapter 18, Isaiah said, you've rejected the waters I offered you, the waters of Shiloah. That goes softly. So here comes the flood of Assyria. And it says it'll go all the way into Judah,

all the way to the neck. So that's them right outside Jerusalem, right? Yes, right here. Because they did. They got Lachish. I mean, how many other cities talk about the Assyrians in Judah, but not Jerusalem? Let me make sure I understand what both of you are saying. This happened around 700 BC. Assyria comes in, couldn't take Jerusalem. 701, if we want it exactly. It is 701. So you're saying 100 years later when Lehi is saying, look, it's not Assyria. They're gone now. It's Babylon. They're coming.

The people are saying, no way. Yeah, Jeremiah is a really good one to read of that time period because he's a prophet at the same time as Lehi. And he's seen this when the Babylonians come. And they're saying, oh, your words, Jeremiah, the prophets' words are taking power away from our military. Yeah, no one wants to follow the military if you listen to the prophets, because the prophets are saying, don't fight them. And they're saying, oh, but a temple, a temple.

You're going to say, we've got the temple. Therefore, we're protected. We're not going to get it. Where we put our trust, where we put our faith, if it is not on the Holy One of Israel, there are surprises. And these are dramatic ones. That's one of Isaiah's roles. He's an advisor to kings of Judah.

Sounds like his message is, don't make alliances with other nations. Let God be your ally. That's an advisor to kings of Judah. Sounds like his message is, don't make alliances with other nations. Let God be your ally. That's it. Because they're constantly thinking, what do we do? Here's Assyria. Here's Syria. Here's what do we do? And the Lord's saying, I'm your ally. Make me your king. And don't worry about those other kings. Maybe Egypt can help us. Maybe Egypt can help us. Yes. So keep that in mind. I think that's just an incredible, after this chapter, a message that Isaiah is sending is put your trust in the Lord and make no alliance with others. Only he can save us. Only he can protect us.

It's his might that we rely on. It isn't our own might. It isn't our own wisdom. I think that's a really important thing. Well, that's amazing, Camille, where chapter 20 would be almost a different language to me. I now understand. With the history, it makes a big difference. And a little bit of the geography. To me, that's what makes it alive. Okay, 21 is very different. And you know, this is Isaiah. He goes in and out of all these different themes. He doesn't really love chronology, does he?

No, not the way we do. Yeah. And the fact that he can be talking about different time periods at the same time. Oh, he doesn't know where he is. He's multiple time periods at the same time. Oh, he doesn't know where he is. He's multiple time zones at the same time. And we'll see that when we get 2 Nephi 24, when he sees the king of Babylon, it says, oh, Lucifer, how are you, son of the morning? And you're like, wait, wait, where did you just go? Because king of Babylon is a type of Lucifer, and you can go back and forth just like that. All of a sudden, he's in the premortal existence. You're right. So chapter 21, what's cool for us as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day

Saints is the fact that Moroni cited this chapter three times to Joseph Smith that night in September of 1823 when he appeared to him. And even the next day. Yes. Fourth time the next day. And then the fourth time the next day. And he says that this is about to be fulfilled. It was the wording he had that you read about in Joseph Smith's history, verse 40. And then we have section 113 of the Doctrine and Covenants, especially the first two verses, where Joseph asked the Lord, help me understand what this symbolism is here, especially in verses 1 and 10. The rod that comes out of the stem of Jesse and a branch that grows out of his roots and the root of Jesse over in verse 10. The answers that the Lord gives him in section 113 really help us to understand this better. But this is a chapter where we see the Lord, Jesus Christ, and a description of him, we get a little taste of millennial reign because of what he does,

but how he does it in a gathering that happens later that we see from the Lord's answers include Joseph Smith and his role in setting up an ensign to the nations. This is about gathering of Israel. It's about the power and wisdom and enabling power of Jesus Christ, the peace that comes as we follow him. Let's take a look at some of this, shall we, and see what we come up with based on those sources to help us. Verse 1, there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse. It's interesting, other words that from the Hebrew, to me, it seems like that stem of Jesse is a trunk. This rod coming out of it, I think we would call it a branch. You think of a tree and a branch comes out of the trunk. And then a branch shall grow out of his roots.

This is a branch that comes right out of the roots. We'd probably call it a shoot. I mean, my dad was Mr. Fruit Tree. Trees are all over the place. We're grafting and we have shoots and branches and pruning. Camille, that's a good childhood for a future religion. I know, I know. I did mine. Your dad didn't know. Did he know? Well, I was raised on a farm. Did he know he was training?

I know. I go, teach me about grafting. Yeah. From section 113, and we can turn there and read that if you think that would be helpful, but it becomes very clear that the rod is Joseph Smith. This branch that grows out of the stem of Jesse and this trunk that it grows out of is Jesus Christ. It could be no other but Jesus Christ. Do you think about where does Joseph Smith get his power and authority? He comes right out of him. And this shoot that grows out of the roots is the Savior, Jesus Christ, who is a direct descendant of Jesse, the house of Judah, the kingdom of David, that he is the king of kings, the rightful king there. And then verses two through five is really a description of the Savior, of Jesus Christ. We're the source of all this power. The Spirit of the Lord shall

rest upon him, Jesus Christ. The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of fear of the Lord, and shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord. And he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears. But with righteousness shall he judge the poor. You know, what we talked about earlier from the last chapter, he is just. He gives justice to the poor and the vulnerable. With righteousness he shall judge the poor and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth. And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The description of his goodness, and therefore anyone who grows from him, who comes from him, will reflect some of those characteristics and qualities. I think you were with us last year, Camille, when we talked about the Last Supper. Yes. Where Jesus talks about being connected to him. Abide in me. Yes. And if we are not, if we're cut off, we wither up and die. There's no life. Look at verses six through nine is talking about the peace and glory that comes with the millennial reign as a result of what the Savior does because of his righteousness, because of his judgment, because of his power. And it's a beautiful one. I'll read verse 9.

The peace that is there, they shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. I mean, is that the most beautiful description? As far as truth that covers the entire earth like the waters of the sea, in a day where we get so many sources of lies and conspiracies and twisted reports. We don't know what is truth and what is error so often. Who can you trust? He talks about truth covering the entire earth like the waters of the sea. It is beautiful.

And Nephi loves this verse. He quotes it again in 2 Nephi 30, verse 15, they shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain. Anyone who desires what the Lord desires would look forward to this day. But how does it come about? What is closer to home for us? Verse 10 now, in that day, this is a later day, there shall be the root, a root of Jesse, Joseph Smith, which will stand as an ensign of the people. What's an ensign? Something we hold up? church that's it a banner that you hold up that draws people to them that's what a college there's a college named that now no it's a banner right yes yes you'd hold up an ensign as you call people together um to gather for war it's a a standard. That's a standard. There's a good one. He'll hold this up to bring the people to it shall the Gentiles seek. Now, isn't this interesting? It's not just Israel.

Now it's calling Gentiles and his rest shall be glorious. And it shall come to pass that in that day that the Lord will set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left. And he mentions all these places again, because where was Israel scattered? All through that area. And now he says, this second time in this latter days, I will try to gather them again. And then verse 13, talking about the envy of Ephraim and the adversaries of Judah. Ephraim shall not envy Judah. Judah shall not vex Ephraim. There's reconciliation here. The Greek word for atonement is reconciliation. So there's atonement again in bringing us together. This is only because of Christ, but because of this ensign and the restoration of the gospel through Joseph Smith, there is this surge of gathering that's happening again.

Historically speaking, does he mean Ephraim as in the northern kingdom of Israel, Judah, the southern kingdom of Israel? They had divided after Solomon's reign. And one day they'll be back together again. And that could be symbolic of all of Israel all over the earth coming together again. Yes. Thank you for clarifying that. Yes, exactly. this becoming one, at-one-ment, because we're one, not necessarily in a place, but we're at one with Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith made a statement that I quote very often, that what the ultimate

purpose of the gathering of Israel is for, and it fits so well with the Book of Mormon teachings that are so clear in what the gathering is. And I loved it. Elder Christofferson cited this in our last general conference. Let me read this quote. This is Joseph Smith. What was the object of gathering the people of God in any age of the world? At any time, what is the whole purpose for the gathering? The main object was to build unto the Lord a house whereby he could reveal unto his people the ordinances of his house and the glories of his kingdom and teach the people the way of salvation. For there are certain ordinances and principles that when they are taught and practiced must be done in a place or house built for that purpose.

So you say, is gathering happening today? Of course it is, all over the world. Wherever a temple is dedicated, there's evidence of gathering happening. And it's not one place. It's all over. The idea you come to him, you find him at the temple, you learn the truth of him, that reconciliation, animosity, envy melts like snow in the glance of the Lord. It's healing. It's true healing. When Moroni said, this is about to be fulfilled, that ensign was about to be erected. And verse 16, there shall be a highway for the remnant of his people. I like to just make that way, because sometimes we get too caught up in a highway. But if we think, I am the way, the truth, and the life, he set up a way.

He set up the path, the covenant path, and that is Jesus Christ to lead us. Those which shall be left from Assyria. Assyria is representative of the wicked of the world, like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt. We come, and this along the way, back to the Lord. Chapter 21 gives us hope and gives us the plan of how this is going to happen. And that in many ways, we can say we are part of that process going on right now. So Camille, verse 11, he'll set his hand the

second time, and then they reference 15, 16, Isaiah references the children of Israel leaving Egypt. So this is the second time he's going to bring Israel back home like he did back in Exodus. Yes. Yeah, that was the first time. I love that you brought up that statement of the prophet Joseph Smith that the purpose of gathering in any age of the world was to build a temple. And I just wanted to bring up this is Abrahamic covenant. We're supposed to bless all of the families of the earth. What is the best thing we can offer is for families to be sealed together.

So that's how the Abrahamic covenant fits in with why we're gathering. I wonder if this reminder of Moses at the Red Sea, it will look impossible. It will look like you can't get to that other side, but I'll make a way. I often think of that as I'm at the Red Sea and the celestial kingdom is on the other side. Or it's like, you're not going to get there on your own, are you? I'm going to have to open up a way. Keep that in mind. I think that is the take home in these chapters.

I'm not going to make it on my own. We need to remember that. It's the antithesis of pride. And it is the symbol of true faith in Jesus Christ. And I think that Nephi is stressing that. Jacob was stressing that. Isaiah has just beat his head against the wall so many times. So many of his people would not hear that.

Sometimes just getting the big picture, and Isaiah is trying to give us and them that big picture that's saying it's worth it. Egypt and the Red Sea and the children of Israel so beautifully and powerfully depict the power of God in the most incredible odds. How many people later cite that again to help them to remember, if God did that, then we know his power. He can do whatever he sets his hand to do. Camille, these first two chapters have been fantastic. Let's keep going.

22, I notice, is not as long. Well, it isn't. I mean, you think about where we've been, and 22 is just like that other pause saying, can we just stop and rejoice? This is like a psalm of praise to the Lord. You can almost sing it. Oh, you can hear the song in verse 2. Yeah, look at verse 2.

Behold, God is my salvation. I will trust and not be afraid you think about what happens with the assyrians you think about what the future may hold and what 21 tells us about the future and saying oh verse 3 therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. It is a chance to pause and sing praises to Jehovah for what he has done and what he will do, and that we have placed our trust in him. So it's a beautiful repose right there. Yeah, I can hear parts of a hymn in verse 2.

He is my joy and my song by day and by night. That was really good, John. We do have hymns of praise that we sing. And I say, ooh, can we sing them with fervor and real intent? Hallelujah. What he has done. It's an opportunity for us to recognize his hand in our lives. I remember once in a sacrament meeting, I was a young teenager, but we started singing and the chorister just stopped us all and looked at us like, really? You guys are just, look at these words. Look at what's going on here. It was really good.

Reminded us to sing it like you mean it type of a thing. Isaiah teaches this lesson and it's basically a song. It is. Jehovah is my strength, not Egypt, not Syria, not my allies, my potential allies. I will trust. I will trust and not be afraid. Think of the Assyrians in your life that seem to be coming for you. And what are those things? Where do you put your trust when those things are coming? We all have Assyrians. I hope not.

They were pretty brutal. But we do have things that we fear. Yes, that's right. I think that's it. We have some disconnect in relationships that cause consternation. And I think there's just all of this in here is saying with trust in the Lord, we can have peace and reconciliation. Camille, as we've been talking here about chapter 22, the Lord is my strength, and then both of these chapters, 20 and 21, and now 22, there was a talk that really had impact on me. It was the year I was graduating from high school, October of 1995. Richard G. Scott gave a talk called Trust in the Lord. And if you were to ask me of all the talks I remember from Elder Scott, this would be in the top three that I remember.

Let me just read a couple of remember from Elder Scott. This would be in the top three that I remember. Let me just read a couple of sentences from that talk. To exercise faith is to trust that the Lord knows what he is doing with you and that he can accomplish it for your eternal good, even though you cannot understand how he can possibly do it. That's Assyria coming. There is no possible way we are going to survive this. And then he says this, we are like infants in our understanding of eternal matters and their impact on us here in mortality. Yet at times we act as if we knew it all. When you pass through trials for his purposes, as you trust him, exercise faith in him, he will help you. That support will generally come step by stepstep a portion at a time,

probably not 185,000 Assyrian soldiers dying in one night, but line upon line while you are passing through each phase, the pain and difficulty that comes from being enlarged will continue. I remember being like, no, while you're passing through each phase, it should get easier. He's saying, no, it won't. If all matters were immediately resolved at your first petition, you could not grow. Your father in heaven and his beloved son love you perfectly. They would not require you to experience a moment more of difficulty than is absolutely needed for your personal benefit or for that of those you love. The whole talk is wonderful, but that specific paragraph stands out to me with, here comes Assyria and I've got no chance. I mean, think about that in someone who

feels like they can't overcome an addiction. It's going to drown me. This is going to take my life. Here comes Assyria, and it's going to just go all the way past my neck and drown me. That is real life. It isn't a quick fix because there's something about the process of experiencing those trials and all the odds against us that gives us the opportunity to really learn to trust, unshakably trust. And that could not happen if every prayer was answered in the way we hoped it would be and as quickly as we would ask. And God is about creating here, developing a people who will be unmovable and create this Zion. And that cannot be without challenges so great. It's like I've said so very often, if we will let him, God will take us to that place where no one can help us but him.

And it's in that place where we truly find him. That's what he wants these people, and today what he wants for us. And that can't happen without opposition in all things. So this is the good news, and it's the hopeful news, but it's also the endure to the end news too, isn't it? And we've got still another couple of chapters of Isaiah that we get to look at. Chapter 23, we get to destruction of Babylon as a type of the second coming in the last days. And there's where we get this burden of Babylon that John mentioned at the beginning of the podcast.

And this is happening now. What he's talking about is after Babylon has come in and destroyed Jerusalem, has destroyed the temple. Yes, the very thing that the residents thought for sure would never happen. That Laman and Lemuel were saying, no, this could never be. That Lehi promised, this is going to happen. I have seen it. Camille, this happens after Lehi leaves. Yes, Lehi leaves in 600.

And Babylon has already started to make inroads and take some people. But the real destruction happens in 586 BC. That's where you have, in mass, people taken back to Babylon. Different from the Assyrians that scattered them all over, Babylonians kept them together in Babylon and retain their identity, but they are completely out of their homeland. They know the temple has been destroyed. This is where Daniel comes in. Daniel is here. Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego. Yes, that's where we are. And here is now the Lord and how he is going to take care of Babylon. Don't fear the Babylonians in the same way. Don't fear the Assyrians. And yes, the southern kingdom, the people of Judah, or we'll call them Jews later in the Greek version, have had their hands slapped more than

that as they've been taken into captivity, but the Lord has not forgotten them, and he will offer to recover them yet again. This burden of Babylon, they are saying, wait a minute, we were the powerful ones. We were the great ones. How can this be? What is an interesting thing I think that Isaiah is doing as he talks about the millennial day and the second coming of the Lord in him coming, he kind of does it as a type. As a type, he looks at how the Babylonians were taken down. The Babylonians have taken Israel, taken them back to Babylon. But you look over here in verse 17. Let me just skip over there. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them. That's Persia. And do you remember

who the king of Persia was who takes over Babylon? It's our lovely Cyrus, right? He wants King of Kings written on his headstone. Yes. And in some ways, Isaiah uses him as a type of Christ here. There is the Cyrus cylinder. It's an ancient artifact from the time of Cyrus, this huge stone cylinder that on it is written Cyrus's way, his version of how they took down Babylon. It's one of my favorites. Marduk was the god of the Babylonians. And Cyrus will say, I'm paraphrasing here, mind you. He'll say, Marduk, the god of the Babylonians, looked all over the world and said, who do I want to rule my people? And he chose me. Cyrus says he walks in and the Babylonians were so thrilled to have him as their king. They just opened the gates and let him come in.

And he overthrew the Babylonian empire without a fight, without a battle at all. Cyrus saw himself as a liberator, like, I'm freeing you from this evil. And in some ways, I'd like to say he did some remarkable things. He's different from other ones like the Assyrians and the Babylonians. He allows each of the different peoples that were conquered by them to worship their own God. Babylonians worship Martyr. He wants me over you and so peace, happy, and you can worship them. And what does he tell the Jews, the people of Judah?

Go home. You can go home and rebuild your temple. Oh, and by the way, here's all this stuff that the Babylonians took out of your temple. You can have it and take it back, rebuild. So in that way, it was a very novel approach. And the Persians remained in power for a long time. That's about 50 years after Jerusalem is destroyed. So about 539 BC. Camille, so while Nephi is getting older, he's probably an old man on the other side of the world. This is when the Persians come and allow some of the Jews to return.

Yes. Now, let me just tell you, while we're doing a little history on this, Herodotus, a Greek historian, gave a different version, and his version matches a little bit more of what Isaiah is using as a type here, the destruction at the last days. According to Herodotus, they diverted the Euphrates River so that there's no water going through Babylon. And they walk in on dry ground, besiege the city, and some incredible atrocities happen as they brought down the capital and therefore the rest of the empire. This is the Persians coming in with Cyrus? The Persians coming in.

That's the version. And we do know that after that, Babylon never revived as a city. It became a desolate area. And that would make sense as far as the water being diverted. Let me cover our timeline here, Camille, for those of us who are going, okay, how do I keep track of all this? Northern Kingdom of Israel taken down by Assyria. Then Assyria falls to Babylon. Then Babylon takes Judah, the southern kingdom.

That's when Lehi leaves. Then 60 years later or so, Persia from the far east comes and takes Babylon. And that includes the Holy Land. Yes. It really helps to know that little the Holy Land. Yes. It really helps to know that little bit of timeline. Yeah. 722, 586, 539. And Camilla, you're saying Isaiah saw this as basically the fall of evil. This is what will happen to evil. Yes, and he sees that in the long run, and therefore the king of Babylon is going to be symbolic in chapter 24 of Lucifer and the fall of evil. That's where we're headed. If we come back and you see this day of the Lord in verse 9, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, because what

is he doing? He's coming to lay the land desolate. Now you just think as far as what's going to be happening to Babylon, and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. And then in verse 10, we hear a lot of times with second coming talk that the stars of heaven will not give their light. The sun will be darkened and the moon will not cause her light to shine. And the fact that this is the Lord behind it in verse 11, I will punish the world for evil. I think for a long time, I always thought of that as being because there'd be so much pollution and evil and darkness from the earth that covers the sun that you cannot see the light.

But let me suggest another. If this is the true king of kings, this is the Lord of light. We read at the end of Revelation, John's Revelation, that there will be no sun nor no moon in the celestial kingdom because Jesus Christ and our Father in heaven are there. He is the source of light. What happens if he comes in all of his brightness? What happens to the sun? What happens to the brightness of the stars? You can't see them. It's like having a flashlight at noon.

It doesn't do anything. Yes, exactly. I've been thinking of this, looking at it that way. As he comes in and he says, I will punish the world for evil and the wicked for their iniquity, and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease. There's the pride again. And the idea of pride is that I think I can do it without him. I don't need him. I am the powerful one. I will lay down the haughtiness of the terrible. Look at verse 15. Everyone that is proud shall be thrust through,

yea, and everyone that is joined to the wicked shall fall by the sword. That to the wicked in verse 15, again, is not in the King James Version of Isaiah. It just joined them, I think is in italics. This is clarifying. Everyone that is joined to the wicked shall fall by the sword. And it tells about atrocities that are happening. Oh, I just can't even read out loud verse 16. It just makes me weep. But I'm thinking of so many places on this earth right now where women and children, the vulnerable, are just having atrocities happening. But now look at verse 19, and Babylon, the glory of kingdoms. Oh, could anything be better than Babylon? The beauty of the Chaldees' excellency shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. We can make that

parallel. And you think about the water diverted. Yeah, the great and spacious building falls, and great was the fall thereof. Yes, there's no foundation. There's nothing to hold it up. The pride of the people. So in verse 20, it says, Babylon shall never be inhabited. Neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation. I mean, that's profound. This is an ancient record. Whether you want to make up a story of who wrote Isaiah or if this is really from the very time of it's ancient and look what's happened to that area there's no babylon and verse 21 wild beasts of the desert shall lie there and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures they're not people that are living there verse 22 the wild beasts

of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses and dragons in their pleasant palaces. And her time is near to come and her day shall not be prolonged for I will destroy her speedily. Yea, for I will be merciful unto my people, but the wicked shall perish. You can see this as a type back there with Babylon and the fall of Babylon to the Persians, but Isaiah sees it in a bigger way when the Savior comes again. And this is a hard chapter to read, Camille, but I think it's important for us to realize that this is the natural consequence of being Babylon. If you rule that brutally, you will fall. Yes. And trusting in this arm of brutality and intimidation and cruelty and thinking this is where power is, the Lord is saying,

you ain't seen nothing. I want to go back to verse 12. I will make a man more precious than fine gold. Well, of course, we're all precious in God's sight, but precious in this context means rare or scarce. To the people of Babylon. Yeah, because the destructions that are coming in. Even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Ophir was a place renowned for the purity of its gold. But actually, when I first saw the golden wedge of Ophir, it reminded me of some really excellent cheese pizza that I had once. We referred to as the golden wedge of Ophir. There's an Ophir Utah.

There's a place out by Tooele or something named Ophir. Did it come from Ophir Cool? Ophir Cool. Did it come from O for cool? O for cool. Hey, listen, you guys, I've always thought that the fact that Utah County does not have a Parley P pizza is a travesty. Like that is an easy way to go. There should be a Parley P pizza. And they could serve that there. They could serve the golden wedge of O for there. We just started a business idea.

And they could have the shake of the heavens from the next verse. Oh, I think you two should start one. You would make it. Yes. Coming up in part two of this episode. To come to that verse and come away and say, we have to do all of this by ourselves first before the grace of Christ will kick in. Is the most ridiculous interpretation possible?