followHIM - Christmas Part 1 • Sister Joy D. Jones • Dec 18 - Dec 24

Episode Date: December 13, 2023

How can a Christ-centered Christmas lessen fear and increase personal revelation? Sister Joy D. Jones shares stories, scriptural insights, and the joy of Christmas in this special episode.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/new-testament-episodes-41-52/Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/follow-him-a-come-follow-me-podcast/id1545433056YouTube: https://youtu.be/-UryeXZLCP4Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/15G9TTz8yLp0dQyEcBQ8BYPlease rate and review the podcast!00:00 Part 1–Sister Joy Jones01:23 Introduction of Sister Joy Jones04:01 Sister Jones shares hopes for listeners this Christmas07:02 Staying Christ-centered12:34 Rebirth at Christmas19:04 Mary the mother of Jesus22:19 Condescension of Jesus28:22 Wisdom comes from seeking Jesus31:58 Simeon and Anna35:33 President Nelson encourages us to increase spiritual capacity36:21 Fear not!43:09 Good sources speak truth46:07 Distractions and receiving light49:28 Focus on the Savior this Christmas51:47 Joy Jones in Africa56: 38 End of Part II–Sister Joy JonesThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignAnnabelle Sorensen: Creative Project ManagerWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Hello, my friends. Merry Christmas from Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I'm your host. I'm here with my magical co-host, John, by the way. Welcome, John. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to everybody. Yeah. Isn't this exciting? John, this is our third Christmas episode. Tell me what Christmas time is like in the By The Way house. Well, there was a time when my wife and I were trying to make things magical, as you said, and now the kids, sometimes before Thanksgiving, are, can we put up the tree? Can we do this? Can we do that? And it's great. There's just a feeling. Yeah. I have noticed that as my children age, their Christmas lists get shorter, but somehow more expensive. John, we are joined by the perfect Christmas guest. We have the privilege of having sister Joy Jones with us. Joy,

Merry Christmas to you. Thank you for being on our podcast. Tell us what you love about Christmas. What are we looking forward to talking about today? Oh, I love everything about Christmas that relates to the Savior. Everything that leads us to Him. And that's why Christmas is so spectacular, because it is all about Him. I'm delighted to see where the Spirit will take us today. The Come Follow Me manual starts with, Why does the birth of a baby bring such great joy? What a wonderful, wonderful question. Let's explore that today. John, before we move forward, I don't think Joy needs an introduction, but we better give her one. Tell our audience who Sister Jones is.

Yes, I think our audience will recognize her from a few general conference talks. I remember once I recognized her sitting at a women's conference talk I was about to give, and suddenly I got a little more nervous, but she was so kind and so gracious. She made me feel good. Sister Jones is joyful to know she is a daughter of God, a covenant keeper, a seeker of truth, a lover of all things family on both sides of the veil, and a budding pickleball player. She's always cherished children. She has five of her own and 24 grandchildren, as well as the children of the world on the primary general board and as the primary general president. She loves being in the service of the Lord at any capacity,

especially in the temples. Tell us again when you served as primary general president. I began my service in 2016 and was released in April of 2021. I had five wonderful years devoting all my time and attention to the children of the church around the world. Nothing could make my heart swell more than that humbling experience. It was fantastic. And I'm so grateful for the opportunity to be in other places and to see the saints where they live around the world. That was enlightening. It was humbling. It was a beautiful experience. Wow.

Hopefully we'll hear more about that today. John, I have to tell you that our producer, David Perry, he recommended, he said, what if we get Sister Joy Jones to be on the show for Christmas? And I thought that was a great idea. So got in contact with Sister Jones. And then, John, I looked at the lesson. It was meant to be. The lesson this week is entitled Good Tidings of Great Joy. Was that not perfect? We have a great joy with us who's going to share lots of good tidings. When I looked at it, I thought that was a confirmation to me we got the right person. Absolutely. We couldn't find anybody named Tidings, so this is great. We got a great joy. That's what we wanted. Yeah, that's wonderful. Having joy as my name

is a great motivation. It's that constant reminder. Step it up, joy. Step it up. Joy is more than happy. Joy is joy. You got to go for it. Yeah. Well, joy, let's get started in our lesson. I'm looking forward to hearing all about your name and Christmas time and your time as primary general president. Let me read the first paragraph of the Come Follow Me manual. And I mentioned earlier, it starts with a question. baby can be a symbol of hope. There's something about a brand new life full of possibilities that invites us to ponder what life might hold for that child and what wonderful things he or she will accomplish. Never has this been truer than at the birth of the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Never has there been more hope placed in a child, and never has there been one born with so much promise. With that, Joy, lead us through Christmas. Share with us what you think will be best for our listeners to feel the spirit of the season. To remember Him, to focus on Him. There are so many distractions at this time of year that would

come in the way of that. This time of the year, the world is a little bit softer and a little more forgiving, a little bit happier. There is more hope, just as you mentioned from the lesson. Everyone seems to agree, perhaps joy to the world could happen for a little while. It's like we're all pulling together, saying, this is an exceptional time of the year. It's different. It feels different. What can we do to expand that? What can we do to draw near to Him? That statement, oh, come let us adore Him. I love that. Let's do that. Let's adore Him. Joy, John and I, we've gotten a lot of mileage from our names. I think everybody in the entire church has heard a John, by the way, joke about his name. I took that from him and started joking about my name being Hank and how that's more of a dog name than people name. Now tell us about

having the name Joy during Christmas. Are there a lot of items in your house with the word Joy on? Yes, actually there are. That happens to be a very popular gift that we receive. Any item that says joy, which is wonderful because it's such a great reminder. Don't we all want to feel joy? I separate it from my name. Yes, my name is joy, but I love the word joy. I love what it means and I love seeking joy in my life. When I think about my name, I think about my parents deeply because they had four children and then they waited 11 years and they thought they weren't going to have any more family. And then I popped up. So they were so happy. That's the reason that I have the name that I have. That means a lot to me.

That's really special. Yeah, that's fantastic. So I have the name that I have. That means a lot to me. That's really special. Yeah, that's fantastic. So I have a lot to live up to. Yeah. I would imagine if I had some Christmas ornaments named Hank up and if I saw my name up in the store. Yeah. Good tidings of great Hank. I know what I'm getting you for Christmas. I'm sure those items are easy to come by. Talk to us about what insights make Christmas special to you. When you think about Christmas and you think about our listeners at home, like you said, there's so many distractions. What do you think about that you could share with them that helps you keep you centered?

I jotted down some of the first things that came to my mind, beginning to reflect on Christmas. I love all the memories that come with Christmas. We have so many memories that are stored in our hearts. You put up the Christmas tree and pull out those ornaments, and each one has different meaning, different memories, different reminders of those sweet traditions in your home, in your family. I love the light everywhere, just like the light in the temple. There's more light in our homes, in our neighborhoods, in our community. It feels happy. It feels uplifting. I love all the scents. Of course, I love all the food. I love all the sounds, all the decorations. We are able to find time to turn our hearts to God, to continue in that Thanksgiving spirit that we celebrate before Christmas, to thank Him,

our Heavenly Father, for His beloved Son. Christmas brings to our hearts the spirit of thanks, and I believe the spirit of giving as well. A number of years ago, I spoke in a Christmas devotional. I shared a little story about a mother and a daughter. She took her little girl to the mall to go do some Christmas shopping. While she was there, they said they walked under this big banner that said, the gift that never stops giving. This little girl was so excited. She looked at her mother and she said, Mom, I know what the gift is that never stops giving. And her mom looked at her and asked, well, what is that? And she said, Jesus. Her mom said, oh, no, sweetie. No, sweetie. It's diamonds.

And I always have to laugh, but also wince a little bit because sometimes I feel like that's the challenge in Christmas is to remember what it really is about and not be distracted by the world's version and the world's deception. I noticed, Joy, it can be heavy for moms to, I got to get ready for Christmas. It seems almost more stressful than joyful. That is such an important point, and I'm so glad you brought it up, Hank. It's really important that we talk about that. I hope we can provide some encouragement for all those sweet moms out there. Recognizing Jesus is the gift that never stops giving. It's his birth, his ministry, his suffering in Gethsemane,

his suffering and death on the cross, his resurrection. It's about his whole life, his entire beautiful, amazing life. His life has an infinite effect on all of us. It never stops. Nephi said, I will praise thee forever. And I love that. I love remembering that now at this particular time. We will forever worship and adore our Heavenly Father's gift, our Savior, Jesus Christ. I actually had a thought that I'd like to share with you, and I'd like your insights. Because I was considering the birth of our Savior, that virgin birth of Christ. I was pondering a little bit, and I want to share this thought. In Luke 1.35, we know the angel said to Mary,

The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee. The Highest, the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee. The highest, the power of the highest shall overshadow thee. Therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. I'd never caught that before, that holy thing which shall be called the Son of God. In Alma chapter 7 verse 10, And behold, he shall be born of Mary, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.

We know in 2 Nephi 11, Nephi says, All things which have been given of God are the typifying of him. I was thinking that perhaps we could see Mary as a type. For all of us, she was overshadowed by the Holy Ghost and a birth occurred. How does this relate to us? Let's look at a few more scriptures. In Mosiah chapter 27, verses 25 and 26, And the Lord said unto me, Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people must be born again. So there's our birth, born again, yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters. And thus they become new creatures.

And unless they do this, they can in no wise inherit the kingdom of God. My point is, it would seem that we need to be overshadowed, so to speak, by the Holy Ghost and be born again. Born of God, becoming new creatures in Christ, we want to become like that holy thing that Luke referred to, even the Son of God, our Savior. If we remember King Lamoni in Alma chapter 19, now this was what Ammon desired, for he knew that King Lamoni was under the power of God. He knew that the dark veil of unbelief was being cast away from his mind. And the light which did light up his mind, which was the light of the glory of God, which was a marvelous light of his goodness. Yea, this light had infused such joy into his soul. The cloud of darkness having

been dispelled, and that the light of everlasting life was lit up in his soul. Yea, he knew that this had overcome his natural frame, and he was carried away in God, born again. I was just thinking at Christmas time, when we think of Jesus being born by means of the Holy Ghost, could we look at that as something of a type in that Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Ghost, leading to a noble birth. Can we see that we must be overshadowed by the Spirit so that we can be born again? To me, there's a little connection so that when Christmas comes, I'm looking and saying, Joy, how are you doing? Where are you? How are you progressing? I love that divine reminder that his birth serves notice that we must go through a birth process ourselves that we're continually working

on. This is one of the main topics that we find throughout the Book of Mormon. And to me, his birth is a divine pattern for us to follow. I have never seen that before, and I love it. This is something I bring up in my classes all the time, the idea of being born again, but I've never connected it to the miracle of the Savior's birth and really being born again, watching someone be born again, going through that change that you talked about in Mosiah. Born again, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state to a state of righteousness. This spiritual rebirth is talked about over and over again in the scriptures as a miracle. The miracle of that rebirth, I've never connected

to the miracle of the Savior's birth. I think one of the reasons the Savior is often called the Father in the scriptures is not that he's God the Father, but he's the Father of this spiritual rebirth. He provides the blood in this spiritual rebirth. I think it's in the book of Moses where the Lord says, you were born by water, blood, and spirit. I want you born again by water, blood, and spirit, but this time by his blood. So oftentimes when I read a scripture author referring to the Savior as our Father, I often think of that spiritual rebirth. It gets my mind racing because I think of Abinadi with King Noah and the Wicked Priest, which sounds like a 50s rock band. But when Abinadi is talking to King Noah and the wicked priests and he says, what are you teaching? And they say the law of Moses. And he says, why don't you keep it? And then he quotes the 10 commandments and some other things. But then he

opens up Isaiah talking about Jesus. He was cut off out of the land of the living who shall declare his generation. But when his soul is made an offering for sin, then he shall see his seed. Thankfully, then Abinadi in Mosiah 15 explains, that's the rebirth, when we become the children of Christ, when we're born again. And when I think about the doctrine of Christ, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, second repentance of article of 4. Third, baptism. Baptism is an event. I can tell you the date and time I was baptized. But baptism is the beginning of the process of being born again. That's why I loved what you've said here about this process.

And when Alma is asking them in Alma 7, they're members of the church. They've already been baptized. He says, my brethren of the church, have you been born of God? And so it's kind of like, are you progressing? Have you been born again? And Jesus is the father of our rebirth. We are literally spirit children of heavenly father, but become children of Christ in King Benjamin's words when we are born again,

which is an ongoing process. I feel like faith, repentance, baptism, and being born again, a process following that gift of the Holy Ghost being overshadowed by that. Like you said, it's a covenant path type process. Thank you for making that connection that all of us have to do that. John, have you ever seen that before? Joy, this happens to me often where someone shows me something in the scriptures and I think, how long has that been there? And I never saw it.

Yeah, maybe my pages were stuck and I didn't see that. Yeah. How come I've never seen that? The miracle birth. It's the Savior's miracle birth, but he asks us to go through a miracle rebirth. Yeah. And how many other things are we missing? How many other things could we connect to him? I want to know them all, and I know that we keep learning. Everything connects us to him somehow. I just love one more connection at this time of year. I feel a sweet connection to Mary. I think about her and

all that she went through. I can't wait to meet her. I really can't. I have a son who passed away six years ago. And I think about her and not comparatively, because it was a very different, different experience. But as you began, Hank, talking about the beginning of the lesson and looking into the eyes of a baby, what a privilege it is as a mother to have those things that we hold in our hearts and cherish. And I love to think about Mary and all the things that she pondered, all the things that she wondered about,

how deeply connected she was to her Heavenly Father, her sweet, humble obedience. I'd love to think about her and try to connect as women and as mothers. I appreciate her. Thank you, Mary. Thank you for the miracle birth. I love what you're saying about Mary. I know that Elder Bruce R. McConkie, who we quote a lot because he said something about everything, it seems. He said, we cannot but think that God chose his greatest female spirit to be the mother of his greatest son. And Mary, the scholars tell us, was probably a teenager. The angel spoke these things to Mary, and she was so young.

And then she gave her approval when she said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord, I will do this. Be it unto me according to thy word. One of the things that I noticed once that thrilled me was, in fact, in the Christian world, they call this the Magnificat. Have you ever heard of that? Yeah. Sounds like a really nice place to lie down, a Magnificat. But it means my soul doth magnify the Lord. And she goes on, this starts in verse 46. My soul doth magnify the Lord. My spirit hath rejoiced in God, my Savior. Notice the pronouns.

She doesn't talk about, I'm wonderful, I'm great. And she was, but she says, He hath regarded the lowest state of his handmaiden. He that is mighty hath done to me great things. His mercy is on them that fear from generation to generation. He hath showed me with his arm. He hath put down the mighty from their seats. Elder Gerald Lund says, Whoa, Mary had a great understanding of the Old Testament in order to be able to say all these phrases in Luke 1 there, because a lot of those are echoes

from Old Testament phrases. We learn a lot about Mary right here. And kind of an interesting parallel is Nephi's Psalm in 2 Nephi chapter 4. Mary in a moment of great exaltation and Nephi in a moment of, oh wretched man that I am, but then says, but I know in whom I have trusted, my God hath been my support. He hath led me through the wilderness. He hath led me through the sea. I circle all those pronouns and I look at this, both in these great moments and in these hard moments, we send it to God. We acknowledge God. I love how Mary did that

here, probably as a young, as a very young woman. John, I like this connection you're making. If I can connect it back to something Joy taught us, it seems that these miracle births we've been talking about, both for Mary and for us, involve agency. The Lord will never force a spiritual rebirth upon anyone. It must be chosen the same way with Mary. There's no forcing of her to do this. Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it unto me according to thy word. We have to say that same thing, don't we, Joy? In our spiritual rebirth, we have to say, behold the servant of the Lord, be it unto me according to thy word. Isn't it beautiful how he honors our agency? We choose, and what a glorious opportunity that is for us. Yeah, we get to choose the miracle if we want it. That's right. This is great. Man,

Joy, how come I've never seen that before? It's something I will think about for the rest of my life at Christmas. That's what we want, right? Yeah. Had you ever noticed that term, the holy thing, that this holy thing that Luke referred to? Isn't that interesting? It happens to have been the God who created the universe, which could lead us to consider the condescension of Jesus Christ. That's what I kept thinking, that holy thing. We're talking about a God who

left his throne and came to earth to a manger. That true condescension, a human baby enters the world totally helpless, completely dependent upon his parents for every physical need. And that's what Jesus did. I was hoping I could share with you a quote from Elder Tadar Collister that he shares so beautifully in The Infinite Atonement. The Savior's descent to humanity was personally announced by the Savior to Nephi on that first Christmas Eve. Behold, the time is at hand, on the morrow I come into the world. Oh, the magnitude of that sacrifice, that condescension. That night, God the Son traded his heavenly home with all its celestial adornments for a mortal abode with all its primitive trappings. He, the King of heaven, the Lord

Omnipotent who reigneth, left a throne to inherit a manger. He exchanged the dominion of a god for the dependence of a babe. He gave up wealth, power, dominion, and the fullness of his glory. For what? For taunting, mocking, humiliation, and subjection. It was a trade of unparalleled dimension, a condescension of incredible proportions, a descent of incalculable depth. And so the great Jehovah, creator of worlds without number, infinite in virtue and power, made his entry into this world in swaddling clothes and a manger. I added a question that Elder D. Todd Christofferson asked. Speaking about the condescension, he said, Why this near inconceivable degradation?

God the Father, out of his perfect love for us, his perfect love for us, allowed his Holy Son to descend to this mortal sphere to begin his mortal ministry among men. That's something to remember as well, to really begin to comprehend the magnitude of his condescension coming as a tiny baby. My question when I think about this is, will we receive his gift, this marvelous gift that he's given us? Do you mind if we talk about that word a little bit, receive? Let's do it. Can we do that? I know John loves to talk about that word. I do. Good. The word receive is a very important word throughout scripture. This word is in the very first command we are given as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,

receive the Holy Ghost. In four of the verses of the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood in Doctrine and Covenants section 84, we read the word receive eight times. It ends with, And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father, and he that receiveth my Father receiveth all that my Father has. John testified, chapter 9, verse 17. As many as have received me, to them have I given to become the sons of God. As we receive him, as we receive him, that's got to be conscious. We've got to think about it. He blesses and empowers us. How we receive him matters. I believe we can receive his love and we can pass it on. And isn't that what we're talking about today? Isn't that what Christmas is all about? It's his love. I wanted to give you some examples. The story of the birth of Christ illustrates this idea of

receiving quite beautifully. If we look at some of the characters involved in the Christmas story, let's see how they received him. If we start with Herod, of course, Herod considered himself the king of the Jews, and he found out about a little baby that was born, and people were calling him the king of the Jews. Herod was quite troubled by that. So how did he receive Jesus? He decreed that all male children under the age of two should be put to death. He wanted to end the life of Jesus Christ because he saw Jesus as a threat. Do we see in our world today, in a symbolic manner, people who perhaps try to eliminate the influence of Christ in their lives or reject Him altogether because of what discipleship would require of them.

And there may be other parallels as well. That's an example of not receiving Him. Herod's example. I thought the innkeepers could come next. We all know the story of Joseph and Mary as they wandered the streets of Bethlehem seeking lodging. There was no room for them in the inns. Elder Holland suggested that there was no room for them in the inns because they were poor. They were basically being discriminated against. There might have been room for others, but not for them. Another interpretation is that there literally was no room for them in all the ends. The obvious question is, are our lives so busy that we don't leave room to receive Jesus?

I'm trying to pull a little application out of these different characters in this beautiful Christmas story. The wise men, we know they were wise because they sought the Son of God. They were diligently seeking him. And you always hear that quote today, wise men still seek him. Are we wise men? The wise men traveled a great distance. It took at least a couple of years. We know Jesus was not an infant when they greeted him. Our pathway to receive Jesus is often a long journey as well. It takes time. We know they fell down and worshiped the Christ child when they finally found him. How do we worship him? When we thank Heavenly Father for the gift of his Son, we're worshiping him. When we bear our testimonies, we're worshiping him.

When we reverently partake of the sacrament, when we ponder the words of the scriptures, the words of modern-day prophets, or most importantly, as we seek to be more like Him, we are worshiping Him. There are so many ways that we worship Him, that we receive Him as the wise men did. One more thing about the wise men I would share is that they brought gifts to little Jesus. They didn't just come to receive, they came to give as well. And I think that's significant. We are also asked to bring something to our Savior. But what do you give to a God who has everything? The Savior tells us clearly in Scripture and in the temple that the gift he asks of us is that of a broken heart and a contrite spirit. I thought we could repeat the well-known statement

from Elder Neal A. Maxwell. The submission of one's will is really the only uniquely personal thing we have to place on God's altar. The many other things we give are actually the things He has already given or loaned to us. However, when you and I finally submit ourselves by letting our individual wills be swallowed up in God's will, then we are really giving something to Him. It is the only possession which is truly ours to give. I think all He wants for Christmas is our hearts. Mary, let's talk about Mary again and receiving. We've talked a little bit about that wonderful verse, how she received Jesus. Mary kept all these things and pondered them in her heart. Mary and Heavenly Father are the only ones who

really knew what she was thinking, but surely it was a very tender, introspective time for her. What an example Mary is for us. Can't we receive him by cherishing and reflecting back on the sacred moments that we share with our Savior? Another form of receiving him, remembering. We've worked a lot with return missionaries, and when they come home, we always sit down with them and ask, did you have experiences where you really felt the Spirit when you come home, we always sit down with them and ask, did you have experiences where you really felt the Spirit when you were teaching or when you were studying, when you were having some experience with someone new to the gospel? Were there times where you felt an overwhelming outpour of the Spirit?

And they would always say, oh, yes. Well, did you write it down? Yes, it's in my journal. Go back and read it. Remember those experiences. Recall what you felt. Don't forget what you felt. That's something else we can do to receive him.

Two lesser known figures in the Christmas story are Simeon and Anna. We know their story. Simeon was told years before Jesus' birth that he would witness the Messiah before his life ended. Anna had been a widow for 84 years, which is so hard to comprehend. During that time, she served in the temple night and day. That tells us much about Anna. She and Simeon recognized that this baby was indeed the promised Messiah as soon as they saw him. Their example of receiving him came through years and years of waiting on the Lord. When we're promised blessings that don't come fast enough, can we remember Simeon and Anna who waited on the Lord faithfully, patiently, and without complaint?

That one, boy, that's a zinger for me. Without complaint. That one comes natural to me. Yes. I agree. I hear you. That idea of receiving is so interesting to me. And I think one of the first times I had a different understanding of the word

receive in the scriptures was we've had Michael McLean on the podcast before, and he made that little movie called Nora's Christmas gift. And here was this super woman who was doing everything for everybody. And then all of a sudden got some macular degeneration and couldn't see. And she tried to make English toffee and the salt accidentally spilled in there. She didn't know it. She was down listening to the choir and she heard, maybe you've heard this hymn, joy to the world, the Lord has come, let earth receive her king. The lights went on that she had to learn to receive instead of just give. It was a great little moment when that word,

oh, I have to receive him. I have to receive help from others. And that was a hard thing for her to do. I loved that moment. And then there's another thing that earlier this year, Hank, when we were going through the Matthew account of the Christmas story, which contains the wise men, I thought, how interesting. They go into Herod, and Herod gets the chief priests and the scribes and demands

of them, where will Christ be born? They know their scriptures, but they had not received the light because they knew. They came right up with Bethlehem. The Messiah is being born just a few miles away, and they don't even know it. They were probably great scriptorians, but they hadn't received the Holy Ghost, perhaps, in the same way that the wise men did, that they received revelation. Is it possible to know our scriptures really well, but not receive the Holy Ghost? It sounds like it, because those guys knew it. One of my favorite verses ever is in section 50 of the Doctrine and Covenants. That which is of God is light and he that receiveth light.

To me, that word receive means more than just you're in the room where the lights turned on, but you're letting it in. It's an active thing. He that receiveth light and continueth in God. Those three words, we do a whole podcast on continuing God. He that receiveth light and continueth in God receiveth more light, and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect days. When you say receive, I always think of that verse. When you have a question, you don't unplug from the source of all light. You stay plugged into the source of all light. In other words, you continue in God, and then you'll receive more light. You're right, Hank. I do love the word receive because I think it's an active word. I was confused as a kid in section 76 when it talks

about those in the terrestrial kingdom who received not the testimony of Christ. And I thought, oh, that's not fair. They didn't hear it. No, they didn't receive it. It's a different meaning. They didn't let it in. They may have heard the gospel, but didn't receive. Oh, so it's more of an active thing, allowing it. I didn't accept, is the way I put it in my margin. They didn't accept the testimony of Christ. Do you suppose that's why President Nelson keeps encouraging us to increase our spiritual capacity to receive revelation? Yeah, receive, to let it in. And Herod's priests knew the scriptures, but they hadn't received the light.

Picture a receiver on a football team who just won't put their arms out, right? Won't put their hands out. Yes, that's a great visual. Another figure in the Christmas story we need to remember is the angel. As I was studying these Christmas passages, I saw the words, fear not, repeated four times. And I hadn't paid attention, I guess, that it was actually four times. The angel Gabriel told Zacharias to fear not when he told him that his wife would bear a son. In her later years, she was aged. The same angel told Mary to fear not, as we've talked about. And later,

an angel appeared in a dream to Joseph and told him to fear not to take Mary as his wife and explained that Jesus would be born. And the shepherds who were sore afraid, of course, were also told to fear not. And yet the message by our Savior was a message of peace, peace on earth, goodwill toward men. Why was the message fear not repeated four times? I'm curious, I'm thinking about it. It's human nature, the fear of the unknown. What thoughts do you have? Why would there be four different specific times in this Christmas story where they're told fear not? I think seeing an angel is frightening. When Jesus was walking on the water, they were afraid. They thought it was a spirit. And he said, be of good cheer. I think he said, fear not too. It is I. What's that, Matthew 14? I love the idea that the first principle of the gospel, first part of the doctrine of Christ is faith in Christ, and that's the opposite of fear. So that the message would begin with fear not

is the same as saying, power up, is get your faith. This is a great message. This has nothing to do with fear. This is hope and happiness. And the very best news I could possibly give came after the fear not. It's almost like, don't let fear spoil it. Don't let fear get in the way. Whenever angels come to earth, they seem to say, you people down here, you fear a lot, don't you? Have you heard of faith in Christ? Come on. I love that idea. You worry too much. You regret too much.

You anticipate bad things too much. Fear not. I love the message of that. Change can be scary. I can almost hear angels saying to us, turn your life over to the Lord. Go through this spiritual rebirth. Fear not. It's scary to hand your life over to the Lord, go through this spiritual rebirth, fear not. It's scary to hand your life over and you want to be in control, but you turn your life over to the Lord and you might hear that same echoing of fear not. It's going to be okay. President

Benson, turn your life over to the Lord, let that spiritual rebirth take place, and He'll make a lot more out of your life than you can. Oh, I love both of your thoughts so much. I really sat and pondered this, and I jotted down something similar. I thought the angel came to say, fear not, this is all according to the plan. It's all part of the plan. In Doctrine and Covenants, section 67, verses 2 and 3, the Lord said, Behold, and lo, my eyes are upon you. He's watching everything that's happening. And the heavens and the earth are in mine hands. I'm in control, as you said. Everything is okay. And the riches of eternity are mine to give. And certainly these were the riches of eternity that were being shared. The Lord told the saints in this dispensation in D&C 67,

in this next verse, why they didn't receive the promised blessings. That's worth considering as well. Ye endeavored to believe that ye should receive the blessing which was offered unto you. But behold, verily I say unto you, there were fears in your hearts, and verily this is the reason that you did not receive. It's important to remember that. Are we limiting blessings, promised blessings, because we fear, because we're not exerting faith and trust in the Lord? Could fear prevent us from receiving blessings? Could the application for us be, don't live in fear, rather live in faith? You've probably heard, worry is just another form of atheism. It's true. Do we have faith or do we have fear? Do we trust or not? I'm fascinated, though, by this concept of the fact that Heavenly Father sent an angel four different times to save, fear not.

I think there's a message there for us. I've often thought of the different assignments angels get. I don't know exactly who they are. This was Gabriel in a lot of these cases we're talking about because he told us that. Sometimes angels come to warn or to scold like they did with Alma and the four sons of Mosiah. but imagine getting this assignment that you get to come and announce good tidings of great joy and how much fun that must have been for the angel. In that story I referred to earlier about Jesus appearing on the sea and telling them, be not afraid, Elder Holland commented on this. He said, this scriptural account reminds us that the first step in coming to Christ or his coming to us may fill us with something very much like sheer terror. It shouldn't, but it sometimes

does. One of the grand ironies of the gospel is that the very source of help and safety being offered us is the thing from which we may, in our mortal short-sightedness, flee. For whatever the reason, I have seen investigators run from baptism. I have seen elders run from a mission call. I have seen sweethearts run from marriage. And I have seen young couples run from the fear of families in the future. Too often, too many of us run from the very things that will bless us and save us and soothe us. Too often we see gospel commitments and commandments as something to be feared and forsaken. Such an interesting idea

that something that maybe starts with a fear not is the very best thing that could happen, and not to let fear make your decisions for you. I think it was what Elder Holland was saying. Yeah. That's so beautiful. Don't they always say, do the thing that you fear the most and then the courage will come? Yeah. Fear is false expectations appearing real. F-E-A-R.

Yes. I love that. It's funny, the things that we're probably supposed to fear that we don't fear. Nephi says, Lord, make me that I may shake at the appearance of sin. We should probably be fearing sin, yet we don't. We should be seeking God, yet we don't. We get our fears and our seeking mixed up. We get them backwards.

Yeah. At least them backwards. Yeah. At least I do. Neither of you do, but I occasionally. Or maybe we feel that Satan tries to put a spin on living the gospel is too hard. It's too legalistic. It's too much pressure. It's too much stress. But what do we hear from angels?

We hear fear not. We hear glad tidings from Kimora. We hear this is the best news possible. Don't let Satan put his spin on that. This is hope and help and joy and no fear. That's what we hear from the best sources. Like Sherry Dew says, go to sources that only speak truth. What do they say?

They say fear not. I love that. Yeah, the truth will make you free. I so treasured the opportunity when I was serving in primary to watch the brethren and to witness their great faith, their great obedience and consecration. I've always appreciated a statement from President Boyd K. Packer. This is relating to fear. He said, in this church, we do not fear. I have been sitting in the councils of the brethren now for some 34 years or so. I have seen disappointment, shock, and concern. Never once for one second

have I ever seen any fear, and you should not. Don't you love that? I think that's powerful. I have witnessed that. I do not see fear in the leaders of our church. Quite the opposite. I see the greatest faith emulated for us to watch and to follow. Joy, it had to be a little fearful to speak in general conference, right? Oh, yes. There had to be a little fearful to speak in general conference. Oh, yes. There had to be some fear there. I'll confess, I have way too much fear. I'm working on that one actively. Hey, don't you know how fearful I was coming to be with you?

We're pretty scary. Yeah, we are pretty scary. You're pretty scary. Yeah. I wanted to read to you something from a good friend, Wendy Ulrich, said, Sometimes fear prompts me to action, but mostly it prompts me to whine. It seems some part of me is afraid not to be afraid, afraid that if I admit God's comforting presence is sufficient,

then he will expect me to be brave instead of protecting me from the threat. Oh, that rings so true. So true. I love the words of our living prophet, President Russell M. Nelson. He said, when so many around us are burdened with fear and uncertainty, is that not the case in the world today? I invite you to make room in your heart for those around you who may be struggling to see the light of the Savior and to feel his love. Jesus Christ was born to cast out all fear and bring everlasting light and joy to all who follow him. So that feels good. That feels good. Thank you, President Nelson. I'm thinking about Christmas lists and gifts and trying to make sure that our children have a magical experience. And I know my wife is a hundred times more worried about these things than I am.

How can someone, a parent or anyone who feels Christmas is a little more stressful than joyful, how can you receive the joy of the season more than the stress of the season? That's the question. And you mentioned wanting to make it magical. And I understand exactly what you're saying. We want it to be magical. And then we talk about the miracle birth, and we're trying to determine what is it we're creating? How do these mesh?

How do these work together? I jotted down, can we experience a few minutes of semi-stillness to focus on what the Christmas celebration is about beyond the overwhelming expectations that we often put upon ourselves? Something that I find really satisfying, this is so simple. I love to sit down in the room where the Christmas tree is with all the lights off, except the Christmas lights. I love to sit and enjoy the glow of the lights in stillness, some peace and quiet to ponder his light, ponder his love, ponder his peace. And you really have to work to do that. You really have to work to make that happen because we're on the go. We're constantly doing,

doing, checking off our lists. I did have a quote to share with you from Elder Christofferson. He said, I hope you will dial down the noise and take some time this Christmas season, at least an hour, if not more, to reflect on the wonder and the majesty of the Son of God. Let it be an hour of reassurance and renewal for you. Take time to relax, be at peace, and see this little child in your mind. Do not be too concerned or overwhelmed with what is coming in his life or in yours. Instead, take a peaceful moment to contemplate perhaps the most serene moment in the history of the world when all of heaven rejoiced. I have to do a little shout out to Sister Patricia Holland. We love her and miss her so much. I loved something that she shared with us.

As I look back at my life, and if I could live any part of it over again, I would do one thing differently, very differently. Simplify. She said, it seems to me that everything is better when it is simplified. Our food, our clothing, our furnishings, and our schedules. I went to the Orem Temple open house recently. This beautiful sister walked up to me and she said, Sister Jones, thank you. We were talking about something that I'd said in a talk about women wearing too many hats. She said, I needed that. And I said, well, tell me right now, are you wearing too many hats? And tears welled up in her eyes. And she just looked at me and nodded her head. Yes. Elder Patrick Karen, I love something that he shared in a Christmas devotional. He said, young mothers and all of us, are you overwhelmed? Where's your focus? Perhaps this year you don't send those Christmas cards, or you let go of some other perhaps media-inspired expectation you have of yourself. The cost in either time or money will take away some of

your ability to focus on the Savior and feel His Christmas joy. Now, He didn't leave out young fathers. He then went on to say, young fathers and the rest of us, where is your focus? Perhaps this year you have a simplified Christmas with more homemade gifts and gifts of service because the pressure and cost of trying to buy it all is too great and unnecessary, and it will take away some of your ability to focus on the Savior and feel His Christmas peace. I love that. His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. That's what it's all about. And we all work at it individually and as families trying to get that appropriate balance. And I think, again, we go to our knees in prayer and

we involve our Heavenly Father. That's always the answer, is seeking His help and His guidance and feeling His love. Because when I feel His love, I feel peaceful. I feel like everything's going to be okay. It's what I do up here that takes away that peace. When I begin to listen to these thoughts that tell me I have to do this and I have to do that. And it won't be the same if I don't include that. It's not true. Those are lies. I was thinking about how much relief I felt that this year, Christmas Eve is on a Sunday because it's just going to be a lot easier to focus and to take out the commercial because we'll be at church singing and talking about Christ and taking the sacrament. Do you feel that same way, or does it just make Saturday the 23rd worse? I mean, how do you guys feel about it? I may be at the store. I may be at the store

on Saturday the 23rd. I love it when Christmas Eve or Christmas falls on the Sabbath. It's so precious. So, so beautiful. Joy, I know as a dad that there's a feeling of how does our Christmas compare? Almost a feeling of, you don't want to say competition, but you want to have an Instagram worthy Christmas. You traveled around meeting with saints all over the world. Can you share with us what you saw and how that can help us maybe have a better perspective, a more Christlike perspective? I remember early after I had been called to be primary general president, I was sitting in a lunch next to Elder

Bednar. He said, have you been to Africa? Have you been to West Africa? I said, no. He said, you have to go. You have to go. I always think back about that conversation with him because I thought, oh, that sounds amazing. I would love that. But little did I know how that would change my life to visit. I believe we were in five different countries in West Africa. The people there were so happy and they had so little as far as material possessions. They had so little. I remember the smiles. I remember their smiles.

Speaking of joy, they seemed to just possess a deep sense of joy and gratitude. So much gratitude. I received this little nativity. It is treasured. I'm telling you, I pull this out at Christmas now. I'm so protective of it because it's made of twigs. Every little piece of this nativity is made of twigs. Here's some sweet person, so creatively used the materials that they had to make this precious nativity that means so much to me. Because when I look at it, I feel the love that I felt for those beautiful saints in all of those countries where times were tough. They had been through so many

things. They'd lost loved ones, and they'd been through wars, and they'd been through wars and they'd been through deprivation and trying to determine how will I put the next meal on the table? Oh, wait, I don't have a table. I remember someone told me when you come home, you'll come back with African eyes. I did. Oh, to see all of the things that were there that I knew my friends and brothers and sisters in Africa didn't have access to, nor did they feel the need for. It was a wake-up call for me to recognize, what do I really need? I need my testimony of Jesus Christ. I need his love and light in my life. It's helpful to recognize that, yes, I might not have the newest iPhone. If I compare that to someone else who has one, I'll remember that statement that comparison is

the thief of joy. Because in actuality, there's always someone who has less than we do, who has greater needs than we do. It's a good reminder to stop, to pause, and to teach our children, to help our children understand. And it's hard. It's hard in a very materialistic world to teach that principle. Yeah, it's difficult. With children, you seem to be fighting every advertisement, and it's the culture many of them grow up in. You can't get upset with a child for thinking this way because, especially in the United States, Christmas used to have a religious connotation to it. We've blown it up into a completely commercial exercise. I know my children get caught up in it. I'm sure the by the way

children never have. They're probably like, no father, no mother. I don't need gifts this year. I want to serve. But the Smith children have a little bit of their father in them and like material things. I really love the picture I have in my head of those West African saints loving life. I'm sure not having a carpeted, heated living room full of Christmas gifts on Christmas morning. Yeah. Dirt floors. Yeah. That's what I experienced in the Philippines. People living their whole life in something the size of a tough shed, a dirt floor, a campfire in the corner. It was a stove. And then they would whisper to their children, go get the elders in Marienda. We're like, no, no,

please don't spend any money on us. Go buy us a bottle of soda. It sounds like that sort of a thing. And I can't not think about the Grinch and the Who's singing Christmas is within our grasp as long as we have hands to clasp. When all their gifts were gone, that was the one thing that they could still smile because we're here and we're together and we have hands to hold on to. That's pretty good. That's beautiful. Please join us for part two of this podcast.